Olympic Gymnastics

[momacacia]

Yes, I'm watching right now. Let me just say, I know nothing of gymnastics other than what I see in the Olympics and the very, very basics. I am old enough, though, to vividly remember Mary Lou and of course we're all seeing the Nadia commercial--perfect 10. I think Mary Lou got 10s, too.

 

It comes down to this---I'd like to see some "perfect" or at least really excellent routines. Ones where you just say WOW, instead of "Hey, at least she didn't fall off, or land outside." Just "THAT was exceptional."

 

So, I'm wondering, have they just made the moves so difficult that no matter how exceptional the gymnast, almost no one could turn in an exceptional routine. Almost no one can stay on the beam, inside the lines or on the bars. I see the same thing in the ice skating---jumps are so hard, falls are the norm not the exception.

 

Yeah, I'm stuck in the 80s, but I want Mary Lou back.;) Am I missing something? Am I the only one that feels this way?

[Jpoy85]

it could be the pressure, I mean the Olympics are a huge deal for them. They want to be perfect, its just not always possible.

[Melissa in Australia]

well I sort of thought that the falls were the norm, and that was what made Nadia so exceptional. If every blow Joe could get a perfect 10 then it wouldn't be so special anymore.

[Mom22ns]

We laugh every time we see the Nadia "Perfect 10" commercials where she takes a hop on her dismount landing from the bars... uh not perfect. The stuff Nadia did is about 3 levels below what is considered olympic level now. My dd could compete with her and they still use a 10.0 scale for those levels. For "Elite" gymnasts they use the difficulty + performance score. A perfect easy routine will not beat a very difficult routine with a .10 deduction for a hop on the landing.

 

If you want an example of perfect, look at Mckayla Maroney's vault in the team competition. Perfect. Amazing.

[FaithManor]

Yes, I'm watching right now. Let me just say, I know nothing of gymnastics other than what I see in the Olympics and the very, very basics. I am old enough, though, to vividly remember Mary Lou and of course we're all seeing the Nadia commercial--perfect 10. I think Mary Lou got 10s, too.

 

It comes down to this---I'd like to see some "perfect" or at least really excellent routines. Ones where you just say WOW, instead of "Hey, at least she didn't fall off, or land outside." Just "THAT was exceptional."

 

So, I'm wondering, have they just made the moves so difficult that no matter how exceptional the gymnast, almost no one could turn in an exceptional routine. Almost no one can stay on the beam, inside the lines or on the bars. I see the same thing in the ice skating---jumps are so hard, falls are the norm not the exception.

 

Yeah, I'm stuck in the 80s, but I want Mary Lou back.;) Am I missing something? Am I the only one that feels this way?

 

A lot has to do with the new scoring system, instant replays where instead of just going with their gut instincts they replay, stop...confer, etc. and that means more "form breaks" and mandatory deductions, and last but not, least they've really upped the difficulty level and increased the number of blind landings. All of this adds up to lower scores. What Nadia and Mary Lou did was great, for it's day. It doesn't come close to the crazy, difficult stuff that is done now. That said, the drive for insane difficulty has meant that most of the artistry and elegance is gone. The routines of today do not have the beauty that the old ones did. Sort of like figure skating where there is more drive to land a couple of quads then there is to put on a complete, balanced, artistic, flowing program. Some figure skaters manage it but a lot do not.

 

I don't want to give you a spoiler. But, there is an American in the individual apparatus finals that will have a really thrilling, well executed program and score big with it...at least big by today's scoring system...but it won't be given anything too close to perfect. That said, it's a real routine to see. So, stay up late for it if you can!

 

Faith

[bettyandbob]

The difficulty of expected skills is waaaaaay higher today. I'm sure the girls today could do Nadia's routines and not break a sweat.

[Joker]

We laugh every time we see the Nadia "Perfect 10" commercials where she takes a hop on her dismount landing from the bars... uh not perfect. The stuff Nadia did is about 3 levels below what is considered olympic level now. My dd could compete with her and they still use a 10.0 scale for those levels. For "Elite" gymnasts they use the difficulty + performance score. A perfect easy routine will not beat a very difficult routine with a .10 deduction for a hop on the landing.

 

If you want an example of perfect, look at Mckayla Maroney's vault in the team competition. Perfect. Amazing.

 

:iagree:We all point out Nadia's imperfections every time that commercial comes on. I especially agree with the bolded.

[PiCO]

I think it's the difficulty. The new rules encourage higher difficulty, making it harder to hit when you need to. (Smaller margin of error.)

 

I miss the artistry of Svetlana Boginskaya.

[Avila]

I think it's the difficulty. The new rules encourage higher difficulty, making it harder to hit when you need to. (Smaller margin of error.)

 

I miss the artistry of Svetlana Boginskaya.

 

I thought I was the only one who missed Svetlana. :001_smile:

 

I like the Russians. My dd does ballet with a Russian teacher, and we just love watching their grace, poise and artistry.

[ErinE]

If you want an example of perfect, look at Mckayla Maroney's vault in the team competition. Perfect. Amazing.

 

That vault was perfect and still got 3/10ths off. I don't think we'll ever see a perfect score under the current system.

[momacacia]

I guess I just don't appreciate the technical difficulty of it enough to be okay seeing them on their tuckuses half the time.:lol:

 

I watch the skating and think, "Really, I'd be okay with a triple axel. I don't need a quadrupal and see 3/4 of you on your backside on the ice." I want to see the beauty of it, I guess. I think the best can still set themselves apart with the majority of them landing on their feet.

 

Maybe if I knew more about the technique or could watch it in slow-mo, I'd appreciate it more. But, as my husband says when they get up on beam, "Just don't fall. Just don't fall."

 

I've told him I was glad he was nowhere around when I was riding horses. "Just don't fall off. Just don't run the horse into the fence." Thanks, Babe!;)

[momacacia]

I think, too, I love watching them perform. Mary Lou was a performer, Scott Hamilton, Katerina Witt. They loved what they did, they loved the crowd and it showed. Sure, there was tons of pressure and stress, but at some point they pulled about the joy.

 

I know a lot of that is personality, but I'd love to see more enjoyment on the kids' faces. You know they love what they're doing---I'd like to actually see some of that again.

[plansrme]

To give you an example of the change in difficulty, the vault Nadia did in 1976, a Tsuk pike, is the same vault my daughter did as a Level 8 gymnast, which is two levels below Level 10, which is the last level before the elite levels. College routines are about typically level 10s. I think she won Olympic silver with that vault, and it wasn't as good as my daughter's. ;)

 

Another change that has contributed to crazy-difficult skills on floor is that floors are springier than they used to be. This was initially done for safety, but in the immortal words of Dr. Phil, "How's that workin' out for you?"

 

Terri

[Mommy22alyns]

That vault was perfect and still got 3/10ths off. I don't think we'll ever see a perfect score under the current system.

 

I know, it was beautiful and I couldn't figure out what the deduction was for!

[mamatohaleybug]

Am I the only one that feels this way?

 

I feel exactly the same way. Been complaining to my DH about this for a week+.

[Mom22ns]

I don't want to give you a spoiler. But, there is an American in the individual apparatus finals that will have a really thrilling, well executed program and score big with it...at least big by today's scoring system...but it won't be given anything too close to perfect. That said, it's a real routine to see. So, stay up late for it if you can!

 

Faith

 

Sure enough! That was terrific!

 

The women's gymnastics has just been fantastic! Some really amazing stuff. Beautiful routines packed with almost inhuman difficulty executed with near perfection.

[plansrme]

I know, it was beautiful and I couldn't figure out what the deduction was for!

 

A vault can always be higher, bigger, stronger. Theoretically, anyway.

 

Terri

[BatmansWife]

I don't know. They all blow me away. It's just amazing that they can do those things (beam, floor, rings, etc, etc).....sheesh to be good at even one of those is amazing let alone skilled in multiple things like that.

[LMV]

To give you an example of the change in difficulty, the vault Nadia did in 1976, a Tsuk pike, is the same vault my daughter did as a Level 8 gymnast, which is two levels below Level 10, which is the last level before the elite levels. College routines are about typically level 10s. I think she won Olympic silver with that vault, and it wasn't as good as my daughter's. ;)

 

Terri

 

This was also my daughter's vault for her L8 scoreout meet. This past year, as an L10, she competed a laid out Tsuk with a full twist. She doesn't like Yurchenkos much but she did appreciate McKayla Maroney's Amanar.

[lmrich]

I can not even count how many flips they do in the air. It is all amazing, but I get the op's point. It is surprising how difficult this has gotten.

[Annie G]

I really wish they'd shown the leaderboard more and reminded us what score the current performer needed to get into the top three. We really enjoyed seeing that in years past. But we're old school...old enough that we were in high school when Nadia competed.

 

And I was surprised at yet another inquiry into scores. I'd be the worst ref or judge ever- it all happens so fast- but these folks are pros!

[Jean in Newcastle]

It's an athletic competition, not an artistic demonstration. I remember watching Nadia way back when. It was amazing but the athleticism has increased with time. I think that's true for all sports. That's why records keep being broken. If I remember correctly, didn't the "Magnificent Seven" do more artistic exhibitions on tour once they were done competing or at least between competing?

[momacacia]

It's an athletic competition, not an artistic demonstration. I remember watching Nadia way back when. It was amazing but the athleticism has increased with time. I think that's true for all sports. That's why records keep being broken. If I remember correctly, didn't the "Magnificent Seven" do more artistic exhibitions on tour once they were done competing or at least between competing?

Sigh. I guess when it comes down to it, I'm just an Ice Capades and Exhibitions kinda girl.;) At least now I know.:)

[KungFuPanda]

Remember when they used to slam their pelvises (pelvi?) into the lower uneven bar? That was back before they put more distance between the bars. Once they moved them I remember watching those tiny Chinese gymnasts having to really stretch to catch the bars. I wondered if they preferred them closer or if the distance cause them to loose some sort of advantage.

[wintermom]

Sigh. I guess when it comes down to it, I'm just an Ice Capades and Exhibitions kinda girl.;) At least now I know.:)

 

Don't watch the high jump. At some point every single competitor misses.

 

The exciting part for me is the constant push for excellence; for more power, more rotations, more difficulty. If athletes didn't do this, how long would audiences keep watching - and how long would athletes keep training? You see this in every sport. World and Olympic records broken are thrilling for both the crowds and the competitors.

[Georgiana Daniels]

Remember when they used to slam their pelvises (pelvi?) into the lower uneven bar? That was back before they put more distance between the bars. Once they moved them I remember watching those tiny Chinese gymnasts having to really stretch to catch the bars. I wondered if they preferred them closer or if the distance cause them to loose some sort of advantage.

 

LOL, I had no idea they used to be closer together. My baby was complaining about her being so short and the bars being far apart, and being the compassionate mother I am I told her to jump harder :D

[kiana]

LOL, I had no idea they used to be closer together. My baby was complaining about her being so short and the bars being far apart, and being the compassionate mother I am I told her to jump harder :D

 

Yeah, they've been moved progressively further apart. If you can find some REALLY old videos, they were just men's parallel bars set at different heights. Then they moved them a bit further apart, and then further again sometime in the 80s. During the intermediate stage, they were just close enough that someone could hang on one bar and wrap their lower half around the other bar, bending at the waist. You'll see it in, for example, Nadia's routine.

[Chelli]

I thought the Russian girl (her name escapes me right now) did a near perfect uneven bar routine the other night. Her and Maroney have earned "perfect" scores in my book. Amazing!

[Georgiana Daniels]

Yeah, they've been moved progressively further apart. If you can find some REALLY old videos, they were just men's parallel bars set at different heights. Then they moved them a bit further apart, and then further again sometime in the 80s. During the intermediate stage, they were just close enough that someone could hang on one bar and wrap their lower half around the other bar, bending at the waist. You'll see it in, for example, Nadia's routine.

 

Oh my goodness--I forgot about the hanging on top bar and bending at waist at the bottom bar move! Wow that brings back memories.

[staceyobu]

I always have to wonder if at some point things max out. I mean, it would seem eventually that you would reach a limit to what someone can do on a beam. It seems like now it has gotten to where people need to start training for 10 hours a day at age 3 to get where they get by age 16. But, after you do that, how do you get better and better routines? Isn't there a limit at some point?

[Penelope]

nm

Edited August 8, 2012 by Penelope

[KungFuPanda]

Here's a link with the Old School bars. The gymnasts were younger too.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN1xYACEFeI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Liz CA]

Remember when they used to slam their pelvises (pelvi?) into the lower uneven bar? That was back before they put more distance between the bars. Once they moved them I remember watching those tiny Chinese gymnasts having to really stretch to catch the bars. I wondered if they preferred them closer or if the distance cause them to loose some sort of advantage.

 

Our instructor always said, you need to land on the top of your thighs just below the hip bones and even that was not pleasant.

I look at these girls' spines nowadays and wonder if they are harming themselves long-term.

[twoxcell]

Have you been watching the individual avent finals? There has been some absolutely amazing gymnastics going on. Not to mention Gabby's performance in the all around and the American team final.;) Seriously did you see that guy from the Netherlands on the high bar.:thumbup: Wow, he was amazing!

[myfunnybunch]

did you see that guy from the Netherlands on the high bar.:thumbup: Wow, he was amazing!

 

:iagree: Not only were the women's events amazing to watch, that high bar routine was worth staying up for all on its own. Jaw-dropping.

 

Cat

[speedmom4]

My youngest ds is a competitive gymnast. We mainly watched the men's gymnastics. We were blown away by most gymnasts at the Olympic level. I actually get choked up when I watch them. I find myself thinking about the sacrifices the athletes and their families have made to make it to the Olympics. It's hard for me to understand how others aren't impressed. :001_huh: The physical and mental strength it takes to perform at that level is incredible. They make it look easy, though, don't they?

 

Elise in NC

[ErinE]

The physical and mental strength it takes to perform at that level is incredible. They make it look easy, though, don't they?

 

Elise in NC

 

I think that's part of the feeling. They make it look so easy and effortless when the moves are done correctly that when the athletes slip and fall, the audience asks, "How could you miss that?" The elite athletes can hit the easier moves; the tougher ones (that are more likely to be flubbed) are what set them apart.

[Momof3littles]

Our instructor always said, you need to land on the top of your thighs just below the hip bones and even that was not pleasant.

I look at these girls' spines nowadays and wonder if they are harming themselves long-term.

Spinal stress fractures and spondylolisthesis are two spine issues that can potentially plague gymnasts.

 

http://www.nismat.org/ptcor/spondylo/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20543413

[shanvan]

If you want an example of perfect, look at Mckayla Maroney's vault in the team competition. Perfect. Amazing.

 

:iagree: and I really wanted to see her score reflect what we all saw.

[wintermom]

My youngest ds is a competitive gymnast. We mainly watched the men's gymnastics. We were blown away by most gymnasts at the Olympic level. I actually get choked up when I watch them. I find myself thinking about the sacrifices the athletes and their families have made to make it to the Olympics. It's hard for me to understand how others aren't impressed. :001_huh: The physical and mental strength it takes to perform at that level is incredible. They make it look easy, though, don't they?

 

Elise in NC

 

I think anyone who's actually done the work to become competitive is completely impressed. It's much easier to sit and be critical.

 

The really awesome part about watching the Olympics is the athletes respect and consideration for EACH OTHER. They get it. They understand the time and effort everyone out there has put in. It was so touching to see the men's hurdles yesterday, when the Chinese athlete hit the first hurdle and went down. He hopped to the finish line on one foot, and the other competitors waited for him and helped him off the track. THAT is the best part of international competition, in my mind. When they strive to be the best person they can be, and success isn't just measured by whether you come home with a gold medal. Some of the TV announcers seem to forget this, and the focus only on who wins the gold medal is very sad.

Edited August 8, 2012 by wintermom

[flyingiguana]

Have you been watching the individual avent finals? There has been some absolutely amazing gymnastics going on. Not to mention Gabby's performance in the all around and the American team final.;) Seriously did you see that guy from the Netherlands on the high bar.:thumbup: Wow, he was amazing!

 

The Netherlands guy:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/19171008

I couldn't get it to load the first couple times, but it eventually worked for me.

[k2bdeutmeyer]

The Netherlands guy:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/19171008

I couldn't get it to load the first couple times, but it eventually worked for me.

 

This said that it wasn't available in my territory, but I did find it here :)

 

 

[catz]

I thought the men's high bar was SO fun to watch! That should have been on BEFORE the women's. SO exciting. Those top 2 men were just crazy incredible! :thumbup: Guess an American didn't win, so why cover it? :glare:

[mom2samlibby]

I thought the men's high bar was SO fun to watch! That should have been on BEFORE the women's. SO exciting. Those top 2 men were just crazy incredible! :thumbup: Guess an American didn't win, so why cover it? :glare:

 

:confused::confused::confused:

 

They did cover it . . .

[catz]

:confused::confused::confused:

 

They did cover it . . .

 

They did, but it was after 11 pm local time for us after a bunch of other nonsense. I'd much prefer more coverage of more sports, to these little clips they do of the gymnastic girls, etc. We only get NBC here, so we're getting a very vanilla, Ameri-centric view of the Olympics unless we dig around on the internet. No doubt this competition would have been prime time had an American won the gold. I wish they'd offer to sell the other coverage streaming online. We do have cable modem, but not cable TV.

 

Anyway, sorry for the aside there. Personal NBC Olympic coverage issues. :glare::lol:

[Georgiana Daniels]

I agree with PP's who loved loved loved men's high bar! AMAZING!!!

[mom2samlibby]

They did, but it was after 11 pm local time for us after a bunch of other nonsense. I'd much prefer more coverage of more sports, to these little clips they do of the gymnastic girls, etc. We only get NBC here, so we're getting a very vanilla, Ameri-centric view of the Olympics unless we dig around on the internet. No doubt this competition would have been prime time had an American won the gold. I wish they'd offer to sell the other coverage streaming online. We do have cable modem, but not cable TV.

 

Anyway, sorry for the aside there. Personal NBC Olympic coverage issues. :glare::lol:

 

 

Hmmm . . . it was 10 - 11 here on NBC. We watched a good majority of them compete. It was on after the men's rings.

[Georgiana Daniels]

Here's a link with the Old School bars. The gymnasts were younger too.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN1xYACEFeI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

 

What a trip! Thanks for the link. They look sooo young.

[KungFuPanda]

What a trip! Thanks for the link. They look sooo young.

 

If you fast forward to a floor routine you can see how the floor has almost no give. When you watch today, it's like they're on a giant trampoline.

[Georgiana Daniels]

If you fast forward to a floor routine you can see how the floor has almost no give. When you watch today, it's like they're on a giant trampoline.

 

And I wonder if some are springier than others or if there is a regulation. Remember the first night of floor when everyone was stepping out of bounds? We were wondering if that floor was simply more springy than they were used to.