Help

[Desert Rat]

No practical advise, Jane. Just lots of hugs. My dad always says, "When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot and swing." Hang on. I hope you find answers soon. FWIW, I would try the elimination diet, too. Can't hurt while you're trying to get to the bottom of the problem. Poor him! Poor you!

[ondreeuh]

Jane, my four year old is very similar. I work so hard to keep him in a "good groove" but once he gets mad about something he is awful. Last year I stayed with him in preschool because I had to basically do behavior management the whole time. I tried to take him to a day camp this summer and on the 2nd day I was asked not to bring him back unless I was with him. He was too physical with the other kids - sometimes playfully, sometimes aggressively.

 

I hear you. It is embarrassing and defeating when your child "acts up" in public and you get the dirty looks. I told my husband that parenting a hyperactive/impulsive child is the hardest job I've ever had, and I get NO recognition or appreciation for it, just dirty looks. I do not take him anywhere if I don't have to. I pray there are no other children at the park when we go visit. I know he needs to learn social skills, but every attempt is a disaster and I get other parents jumping in to correct him which makes me feel worse.

 

I also have older children who are well behaved, but each child needs custom parenting to some degree. I try to be completely unemotional when he misbehaves, use a timer for time-out, and add minutes for continued whining, spitting, yelling, etc. The calmer I am, the faster he calms down. Using a timer deflects some of the anger he has towards me (but I still get lots of "I don't love you anymore.")

 

Everything got much worse this summer when we stayed with family out of state. For one thing, they noticed every little bad thing he did, and expected me to respond. Normally I pick my battles and ignore the little stuff that doesn't matter, but since those little things mattered to THEM and we were in their house, I was battling everything. The embarrassment led me to over-react with anger, and once I show anger then it escalates everything and becomes a huge power struggle. I was worried about showing family that I WAS treating the little stuff like a Big Deal and inadvertently made it worse.

 

My solution (haha) is to stick around home, stay in our routine, work on the targeted behaviors (the big ones are following directions and handling frustration), praise the heck out of him when he does the right thing, and keep him out of situations that he cannot handle (like the library). He's also a lot like a puppy and needs a JOB. If he can be my "helper" by handing me things, helping me measure, carrying stuff, etc. he feels so proud and it channels some of his energy. We did just buy a trampoline and I'm hoping I can send him to jump off some extra steam.

 

Also - certain video games (star wars) lead to really crazy behavior afterwards. He's in his own world and it's hard to get him to act like himself. I have to really be picky about when I let him play.

 

Another thought - I have some experience with urinary incontinence. It may be behavioral, but there are definitely physical issues that could cause the wetting. Aside from the obvious bladder infection (which you should definitely get checked out), constipation can cause wetting, and nerve and muscle issues can cause it too. It may show up well after potty training was successful. I wouldn't punish it at all. If it is physical, then it will cause shame. If it is behavioral, then you are letting him know that it does get to you.

 

(hugs). I know it seems impossible. I told my husband that I hate being his mother sometimes. You are not alone.

[Alte Veste Academy]

He was so out of control he was shaking. Slamming doors, throwing things, screaming like the devil in holy water. Crazy. My other kids and I just stood there watching him, completely dumbfounded.

 

And it was over the oddest thing. He wanted to go to a store and get some toy and I had said no we don't have money to buy frivolous toys.

 

he'll have a bunch of good days in a row and I delude ;) myself into thinking maybe he's outgrown his "phase".

 

You know, I just have to say... It is the wetting that worries me most. It is the reason I would absolutely follow up. As to the rest of it--the rage, the tantrums--I just feel the need to share that DD was the same way from three years old. She is still a firecracker but she has matured so much. She was exhausting, to say the least. But she does not have bipolar, Asperger's, anxiety, etc. She is simply a young girl who has struggled with self-control. I am a little worried that with getting so much input here, and repeatedly hearing that this sounds just like _____ or _____ that you are going to become even more overwhelmed and disheartened than before you posted. People are going to skewer me, but after seeing my own DD go from out of control to relatively sedate and civilized, I will say that it is possible that this is just a phase, a difficult time in the life of an extremely headstrong and fiery child. I am sure you are thinking that if only you did have a video or if I could be a fly on your wall, I would see that your DS's behavior is so much worse than what I am imagining. I sincerely doubt it. ;) I have my own horror stories to tell, I assure you.

 

Again, the wetting concerns me and I would look for a physical cause. But don't have visions of him in an asylum as an adult. :tongue_smilie:

 

:grouphug:

[MiniBlondes]

I have no advice to offer but I do want to give you a great big :grouphug:.

[deacongirl]

I would very strongly encourage you to get the book Transforming the Difficult Child.

[deacongirl]

Also--I agree with getting a neuropsych eval. But I would def. find a dr. who is experienced with gifted kids and gets them. I have read previous posts of yours and while there may be something else going on there are many gifted kids who are misdiagnosed. A proper diagnosis with someone familiar with gifted kids to tease out which behaviors are caused by giftedness and which by something else is crucial IMO.

[deacongirl]

You know, I just have to say... It is the wetting that worries me most. It is the reason I would absolutely follow up. As to the rest of it--the rage, the tantrums--I just feel the need to share that DD was the same way from three years old. She is still a firecracker but she has matured so much. She was exhausting, to say the least. But she does not have bipolar, Asperger's, anxiety, etc. She is simply a young girl who has struggled with self-control. I am a little worried that with getting so much input here, and repeatedly hearing that this sounds just like _____ or _____ that you are going to become even more overwhelmed and disheartened than before you posted. People are going to skewer me, but after seeing my own DD go from out of control to relatively sedate and civilized, I will say that it is possible that this is just a phase, a difficult time in the life of an extremely headstrong and fiery child. I am sure you are thinking that if only you did have a video or if I could be a fly on your wall, I would see that your DS's behavior is so much worse than what I am imagining. I sincerely doubt it. ;) I have my own horror stories to tell, I assure you.

 

Again, the wetting concerns me and I would look for a physical cause. But don't have visions of him in an asylum as an adult. :tongue_smilie:

 

:grouphug:

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[plain jane]

..

Edited July 28, 2012 by plain jane

[Little Nyssa]

Just :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[kalanamak]

I knew a similar child. He was FAS, but I know yours is not. He was on ADHD meds until he was a teen and ended up being moved onto antipsychotics which are sedating. I recall a fit he had because his bike was put in the trunk. He raged for 6 hours, and when he was reunited with it, he stopped. Imagine 6 hours of screaming in the car.

 

They worked with him and sign language, and sometimes while he raged he would sign "can't stop can't stop". One Christmas he came down and tore open every present, like the Tasmanian Devil in the show. For him it was neurological. Put on a certain course, it would not stop. Now he lives in sheltered living and has a simple job, but those first years were very hard on the family.

 

Please take the child in for a full check and an eval. (I doubt diabetes is causing it. 1) by the time you are polyuric, you are often weak and lethargic, not more active 2) this has been going on for a long time, right? I'm betting he was a needy, active baby, perhaps even in the womb? Right?) Not only does the child need help in behaving, but also in how he feels about himself, and the rest of your family/life will be impacted as well.

 

I meet some of these people as adults. Back in the "bad old days" some frantic parents tied them to tables and let them rage. Or they were "put" somewhere .... "the children who disappeared".

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: It must be very difficult.

[kalanamak]

I would look for a specialist in your area to have him evaluated. That is more than you can handle any longer. :grouphug:

 

 

 

And take a video. Keep a calm, clinical journal. Find a baby sitter and go with child and husband.

[plain jane]

I knew a similar child. He was FAS, but I know yours is not. He was on ADHD meds until he was a teen and ended up being moved onto antipsychotics which are sedating. I recall a fit he had because his bike was put in the trunk. He raged for 6 hours, and when he was reunited with it, he stopped. Imagine 6 hours of screaming in the car.

 

They worked with him and sign language, and sometimes while he raged he would sign "can't stop can't stop". One Christmas he came down and tore open every present, like the Tasmanian Devil in the show. For him it was neurological. Put on a certain course, it would not stop. Now he lives in sheltered living and has a simple job, but those first years were very hard on the family.

 

Please take the child in for a full check and an eval. (I doubt diabetes is causing it. 1) by the time you are polyuric, you are often weak and lethargic, not more active 2) this has been going on for a long time, right? I'm betting he was a needy, active baby, perhaps even in the womb? Right?) Not only does the child need help in behaving, but also in how he feels about himself, and the rest of your family/life will be impacted as well.

 

I meet some of these people as adults. Back in the "bad old days" some frantic parents tied them to tables and let them rage. Or they were "put" somewhere .... "the children who disappeared".

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: It must be very difficult.

 

Actually, he was my calmest, happiest baby. :001_huh: He was snuggly, loving, peaceful, always easy to please and so nice to be around. I carried him everywhere, co-slept (he was probably one of my best sleepers). He was my golden child. :lol:

 

He wasn't spoiled though. It's not like we've tolerated all sorts of behavior from him and he's out of control now, if that makes any sense.

 

I simply don't know what happened.

 

I try to hold/hug him when he's raging. Sometimes that helps. I try not to leave him alone when he's like that but there have been times when I need to leave the room, kwim?

 

And no, all this behavior has cropped up in the last year to 18 months. I wish I could be more exact. There wasn't any one thing that set this all of though. Nothing traumatic. No divorce, death, move, whatnot. I guess the birth of a baby. Ack. This can't all be because of a baby??? :svengo:

[Hockey Mom]

I think the main thing you need to know is that you are not alone. There are many, MANY parents who struggle with a child who is difficult.:grouphug:

 

For us, our 9 y/o is 'that' child. He was the baby that we had to rock with a hair dryer blowing nearby in order to get any sleep. He was the toddler that could destroy a bedroom in under 5 minutes. He was the preschooler that screamed such ear-piercing screams that you could feel your central nervous system shutting down. He is the 9 y/o that hates to go shopping (unless it's for toys), and will still meltdown if he gets something in his head and the answer is 'no'.

 

Pediatricians were pretty much worthless for us. He's "bright" and needs challenges. We don't know how "bright" he is, as we haven't had him tested.

 

At 9 y/o, he's better. MUCH better when I recall his toddler/preschool years. But we have a long way to go still.

 

One of the other posters recommended making him your helper. We did that and it worked great for us! We have a very strict routine. If we stray from our routine ONE iota, that is guaranteed problems. He MUST play outside. My guy plays outside at LEAST a couple hours a day.

 

One other thing; I don't know where you live, but putting our boys in ice hockey was the single best decision we made. Studies have shown that ice hockey is one of the BEST sports for kids who have problems focusing. If hockey isn't your thing, soccer is also a good sport for him.

 

WRT the wetting, if there isn't a physical underlying condition, it could be a power play. Perhaps he's feeling a little out of control in his world, and this is the only thing he CAN control. I would do pull-ups, along with shorts and a belt. If he's going to take the pull-up off, then he'll have to really put in some work to do it.

 

I would definitely find a new pediatrician, eliminate red dye 40 and yellow dyes, all screen time would be suspended until further notice, LOTS of outside time, and put him to work when he's inside.

 

Hang in there mama! :grouphug:

[Hockey Mom]

Actually, he was my calmest, happiest baby. :001_huh: He was snuggly, loving, peaceful, always easy to please and so nice to be around. I carried him everywhere, co-slept (he was probably one of my best sleepers). He was my golden child. :lol:

 

He wasn't spoiled though. It's not like we've tolerated all sorts of behavior from him and he's out of control now, if that makes any sense.

 

I simply don't know what happened.

 

I try to hold/hug him when he's raging. Sometimes that helps. I try not to leave him alone when he's like that but there have been times when I need to leave the room, kwim?

 

And no, all this behavior has cropped up in the last year to 18 months. I wish I could be more exact. There wasn't any one thing that set this all of though. Nothing traumatic. No divorce, death, move, whatnot. I guess the birth of a baby. Ack. This can't all be because of a baby??? :svengo:

 

Yes! Yes it COULD be because of a new baby!

 

Is it possible for you to spend one on one time with him? A special "night out"?

[Pink Fairy]

My 5yo suddenly started peeing his underwear many times per day. The pediatrician ordered an x-ray and it turned out that he was full of stool. It's been a long process of dealing with severe constipation, but he's getting better.

[Trilliums]

:grouphug:

 

Have you tried any supplements such as Cod liver oil?

 

Have you read up on mood disorders? His reaction to being told 'no' in particular stands out as a bipolar trait. I do, however, also know families with kids like this who have mellowed as they matured. Hoping for all the best for you all!

[Twinmom]

Jane, according to your description, he sounds and acts surprisingly like a couple of my kids...esp my dd at that age. Both of the kids were eventually diagnosed with severe sensory processing disorder and my DD was also diagnosed with both a visual processing disorder (affected her behavior because the movement of those around her made her dizzy) and a severe anxiety disorder that resulted from the overstimulation of the SPD. Both of the two kids I have mentioned freaked out over running errands (stores, car trips, changes in routine were all overstimulating and frightening), were good in front of others and holy terrors behind closed doors and could be both violent and threatening. One of them peed all the time, without discomfort or regard to the odor. One refused to bathe, no matter what the smell. Both (but esp my DD) could destabilize and disrupt the family in huge ways, for totally unexplainable reasons. People were afraid of us. It was awful.

 

If I were in your shoes, my first stop would be at an occupational therapist who specializes in sensory processing disorder. A good evaluation there will also point towards autism or other developmental disorders if they apply. A good solid year of sensory integration therapy followed by neurofeedback for increased self-regulation did the trick for my two...as well as a nice little dose of anxiety meds for DD. They no longer find their environments painful and thus no longer disrupt things unnecessarily. My little pee-er no longer does so (turns out he had dyspraxia and didn't recognize his own body signals when overstimulated or distracted). My one who refused to bathe now takes one everyday, uses deodorant and foot spray and acts like a normal kiddo 90 percent of the time. We are managing quite well now.

 

HTH. You are not alone!

 

:grouphug:

[lil' maids in a row]

:grouphug:

 

Overalls and footie pajamas put on backwards often prevent kids from removing diapers and pull ups.

 

His behavior may be way beyond this but, I did video tape some of my daughters tantrums (around age 4), and showed them to her during a calm moment a few weeks later. She was horrified and it was the first time she wanted to change and do better. It was a helpful turning point for us, but I can also see how it could discourage a struggling child. Use your best mommy judgement :001_smile:.

 

Meredith

[Alte Veste Academy]

Actually, he was my calmest, happiest baby. :001_huh: He was snuggly, loving, peaceful, always easy to please and so nice to be around. I carried him everywhere, co-slept (he was probably one of my best sleepers). He was my golden child. :lol:

 

He wasn't spoiled though. It's not like we've tolerated all sorts of behavior from him and he's out of control now, if that makes any sense.

 

I simply don't know what happened.

 

I try to hold/hug him when he's raging. Sometimes that helps. I try not to leave him alone when he's like that but there have been times when I need to leave the room, kwim?

 

And no, all this behavior has cropped up in the last year to 18 months. I wish I could be more exact. There wasn't any one thing that set this all of though. Nothing traumatic. No divorce, death, move, whatnot. I guess the birth of a baby. Ack. This can't all be because of a baby??? :svengo:

 

It wouldn't surprise me if it was related to the baby, particularly if he moved up to "big boy" status when the baby came along. Some kids don't want to be the big kid, just want to stay babies too. However, DD went nuts at three, and there was no new baby here. :tongue_smilie: Kind of took me by surprise because she was positively cherubic before that.

[ktgrok]

First, don't assume he is lying. Maybe he REALLY does have a headache/tummy ache at the thought of going in public. He needs to be evaluated for Sensory Processing Disorder, or Aspergers, or SOMETHING. My son was just like him. And he was my first kid, so I thought it was just me not parenting right. NOw, with a "normal" child I realize how totally off his whole childhood was. And I think around 4 years old was the worst of it, if that helps. Well, that and 9 years old.

 

Please please please see someone to look into sensory processing, at a minimum. And have his urine checked to make sure he doesn't have a UTI. Read up on Aspergers, Sensory Processing, etc. A GREAT book is "kids in the mix", I think it is called, about all these different issues.

 

I look back and feel so bad at how angry I would get, when really, he was doing the best he could at the time.

[ktgrok]

As to what type of specialist, I'd try a neuorpsychologist. They would be the best. Or an Occupational Therapist can address Sensory Issues at least, and I'd almost guarantee that is part of what you are dealing with. An OT would not be thousands and thousands, and could teach you things to do at home. The biggest thing is getting the diagnoses. Then you can read up on what to do at home. Just knowing how to approach a kid like this helps SO SO SO much.

[Jan in SC]

When he is calm, does he stare into space? Have you watched him sleep? Does he toss and turn? I wonder if he could be having seizures. My son had seizures from about 4-6 years of age. He wasn't wild all the time, but he had rages after. They weren't fall on the floor seizures, either.

[kalanamak]

Actually, he was my calmest, happiest baby. :001_huh: He was snuggly, loving, peaceful, always easy to please and so nice to be around. I carried him everywhere, co-slept (he was probably one of my best sleepers). He was my golden child. :lol:

 

I take that to be hopeful. Over and over I hear parents say "X was always the difficult child".

[thefragile7393]

I will go along with the neuropsych as being very vital and allergy testing, especially foods. For a child that might have these issues, reactions to certain foods or additives can make what is already there even worse. Some naturopaths will do allergy testing, since a lot of allopaths won't do testing (or refer out for testing) if you don't have any obvious phsyical symptoms :glare:

OT can be very very helpful is there is a sensory issue, which you would find out from a neurospych eval. Those are the places I would start. I am not a doctor or anything close so please don't take any of this as a diagnosis-just food for thought. I will say that it very much sounds like there are underlying chemistry issues that need to be worked out....once you get a diagnosis then you can learn techniques as a family on how to deal with it and also get him some therapy to help him teach himself how to deal with it.

 

You are not alone. I work in a crisis center...all over the place but mainly in the kids area and many children come in showing many of the same symptoms. Food allergies are hardly brought up but I've seen, just in personal experience, many behaviors reduce just from something like the Feingold diet or eliminating certain things. And food may not be a part of it, but the picky part combined with all these other behaviors make me wonder (like others have already mentioned) if this may be a part of it. I so hope you get some answers and peace soon.

[justamouse]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

People used to think I was this horrible parent when they met Son #1, then the rest came along and they are amazing, and wonderfully behaved.

 

IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT. IF I could fill the rest of the screen with that, and give you a hug, I would. It's not your fault.

 

 

Forget the pads, get him in for a neuro psych eval. Pronto.

 

Second, I would do an elimination diet.

 

Until then, I would put him in pull ups, and I would NOT take him out. Not at all. Not until he's a big boy, and if you do and he acts up you *leave everything and walk out*. Period. Every time. But really, I wouldn't even go and if he asked, I would tell him he needs to learn to act like a big boy first.

 

And, actually, I would focus LESS on him. Right now everyone in the house is focused on him. And from having one child that the house focused on, I can tell you the other kids need your attention. Leave himself with dad for an evening and take the others to a park. It sounds mean, but they need you, too. And he doesn't need to know. Just do something for them, with them, and tell them you love them and that you hope he'll grow out of this but that you really want them to know that you love them and you haven't forgotten them.

 

This little guy has the whole house jumping when he says boo, and he knows it. He is the prison guard, and the thing is, he probably knows that he can't handle the power.

 

At the same time, I would wear him. Put him in a sling, and wear him on your hip (with a diaper!). And he can't get down because he's not being gentle. Gentle words, gentle hands, gentle heart.

 

Otherwise, I don't know, but if I were you, that's what I'd do. It may not work, but I'd try.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

Edited July 27, 2012 by justamouse

[ktgrok]

Constipation can cause the urine issue. The stool pushes on the bladder, making it empty even without him knowing.

 

But read up on sensory issues ASAP. Google it.

[ColoNative]

Just a thought, and I don't know where you live so maybe this won't work.

 

The school district where we live will evaluate preschoolers who may have a variety of issues: speech, behavior, autistic type behaviors, etc. for free. Our 4 year old son was evaluated for speech (we can't understand a lot of words, even though he talks all the time:001_smile:). He qualified for speech services on an IEP even though we homeschool our kids...

 

Anyway, if it's something your school district would do, they have access to many of the people who might be able to help you.

 

:grouphug:

[Trish]

Wow, poor mom! I can relate I had one sort of like that. I don't have any experience with the peeing thing, though, so I can't tell if that's behavioral or physiological. Until you get answers on that, I'd be inclined to put him in a pull-up to save your furniture and your sanity!

 

Anyway, mine was worst from ages 2-5, and he gradually got better to the point where we only have maybe a meltdown per quarter now. (he's almost 11) I just didn't take him to the grocery, left him home with DH and got my shopping done quickly child-free.

 

The things we did are: "You know the rules" -- then ignore tantrum until he starts throwing things/hurting people. Then it's to the bedroom to calm down. It seemed like it would never end! But eventually things got better.

 

Some things that helped: telling him ahead of time what the plan was, and then doing our best to stick to the plan. (I realize family members need to learn "flexibility," but with this type of child the younger years were not the time to do it) Also, giving him two reasonable options, he liked having a choice. For my Tantrum Thrower, we also had to be careful he got regular snacks. If the blood sugar got too low, you could count on a tantrum over NOTHING.

 

It doesn't sound like the professionals you've consulted are much help!

 

:grouphug: :grouphug:

[juelle]

I took mine (#5, now 8yodd) off gluten and dairy. It helps considerably. Perhaps she's just growing out of it :001_huh: I have to remember she's not as powerful as she sounds. She needs me to be the adult. Also, things are better if I have zero-tolerance policy and actively, firmly and gently intervene when there's any unpleasantness between siblings and this dd.

:grouphug: to your family.

[Trish]

You know, I just have to say... It is the wetting that worries me most. It is the reason I would absolutely follow up. As to the rest of it--the rage, the tantrums--I just feel the need to share that DD was the same way from three years old. She is still a firecracker but she has matured so much. She was exhausting, to say the least. But she does not have bipolar, Asperger's, anxiety, etc. She is simply a young girl who has struggled with self-control. I am a little worried that with getting so much input here, and repeatedly hearing that this sounds just like _____ or _____ that you are going to become even more overwhelmed and disheartened than before you posted. People are going to skewer me, but after seeing my own DD go from out of control to relatively sedate and civilized, I will say that it is possible that this is just a phase, a difficult time in the life of an extremely headstrong and fiery child. I am sure you are thinking that if only you did have a video or if I could be a fly on your wall, I would see that your DS's behavior is so much worse than what I am imagining. I sincerely doubt it. ;) I have my own horror stories to tell, I assure you.

 

Again, the wetting concerns me and I would look for a physical cause. But don't have visions of him in an asylum as an adult. :tongue_smilie:

 

:grouphug:

 

Yes, I wondered with my little guy if this was going to be a permanent problem. And he is a smart kid, by the age of 6 or 7 he was able to explain what was going through his head during the tantrums (I mean, he would explain much later, not during the tantrum itself). It was that the "rage took over my brain and I couldn't stop until I got it all out." He actually used the word rage, heh. My husband and I talked about "his rages."

 

Then afterward he was simply done. But for us we did try to avoid triggers -- yes he had consequences, but unlike his older brother, his self control was not as good. So we couldn't rely on consequences to elicit good behavior. (although he still got them for bad behavior)

[amo_mea_filiis.]

It's late for me and i hope i'll remember to come back tomorrow to post some more, but i couldn't not respond right now.

 

You are far from alone!

 

When my son was 4, three months from his 5th birthday, i drove him to a psych hospital with the intentions of admitting him. They didn't take kids until 5 years and told me which hospital would take. We started driving but all of a sudden i realized that i would not be able to tuck in my little boy that night! I cried like a baby the whole way home and ds slept in my bed that night.

[KnitWit]

Oh Jane. No advice...just :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Susan C.]

One way to tell if its the baby is to have a you and him or dad and him day. Whatever he wants, something local and wonderful to him. Breakfast, lunch, dinner, ice cream, park, zoo, whatever he likes. No errands, fun only. We called them "just because" days. One on one, see if he will talk and say what is bothering him, don't push or ruin a good time, just see if he starts talking. It might take a few tries.

 

We had an instance where oldest talkative dc went to a friend's. Dc#2 and us went to dinner. She sat and didn't even talk.... it took that to realize the older one was overshadowing the younger and we needed to let her talk more and be more a part of the family.

 

I don't know if this applies at all, but you will. So sorry you are going through this.

[Denisemomof4]

And..... I hope this makes sense since it was only when I got to the bottom of your post that I read not to quote.:glare: so I tried to sum thngs as best

as I could.....

 

 

While going out in public I ALWAYS have dd9 holding onto my carriage or hand as we shop. She has become much more able to handle situations because we have been working on them HARD for a good five years.

 

Running erramds?

 

 

Until he is stronger, DO NOT run errands with him!

 

 

Not understanding why your parenting doesn't work for him when it did for the others?

BTDT. But this kid is controlling the family, it seems, and mom and dad need to gently take that control back. I also wonder if there is a medical reason for his behavior?

 

 

His behavior is nothing like your other kids.

Have you had him tested for food allergies? Have you done an elimination diet to rule out sensitivities? Does he have sensory issues? Could he be on the spectrum? Clearly you are at the end of your rope, but I think there has got to be an explanation for his behaviors.

 

 

Are pitty issues deliberate?

 

I am curious.... Did he have health issues as an infant?

 

 

So much of what you say is a glimpse into my RAD life..... NOT that your son has RAD, but that by being upset or doing outlandish things for attention could be what is going on. Is there any significant change i. The family? Something that could cause fear in Him?

 

 

My RAD will swear she doesn't have to pee while we make a pit stop in the road. We no sooner buckle up and she will pee in her seat. We make her sit on a towel with a plastic bag beneath, and we have mostly cut out activities for her until she is stronger. It is totally her choice to decide when that is. BUT, we know for her her behavior issues are within her control. I am wondering if your son has that control???

 

 

Buy him a vinly beanbag and NEVER allow him on the furniture. I have learned this the hard way. I do wonder wether or not his urine issues are within his control. I would make sure, regardless, that there is NO reaction from the rest of the famiy. My RAD NEVER does this around her friends, EVER. It is purely a choice for her. She would never do this durin g her own activity so I wonder if your son really has no control???.

 

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

B

Edited July 27, 2012 by Denisemomof4

[renmew]

I am so sorry. It's an understatement, but you must be exhausted.

 

My ds is very similar, just without the peeing. I agree with a previous poster that it could be a sensory thing. This is embarrassing, but when I was younger, even a teen, I used to leak a little on purpose, just to see if I could stop it. I'd do it for a little while, until I'd have to change. There was some kind of sensory thing going on, I don't really know, but at some point before college I stopped.

 

My ds was tested by a Regional Center for free when he was 5 years old. He was diagnosed with PDD-NOS and later anxiety was added. His does rage pretty bad sometimes, although that is starting to ebb. He is now having manic periods, which concerns me, as his dad is severely bipolar.

 

Both diet and meds can help. Find a good doctor. Our first doctor put him on the wrong meds for someone with anxiety in the family history...and it triggered his anxiety. He is now med free, and we operate on an extreme schedule.

 

Oh, take all screen time away. All. These kinds of kids cannot handle tv or video games. None. It sucks, but that is the case. My son spends his free time building with Lego and drawing dozens of pictures a day.

 

Get help from your local regional center. I can help you find yours, if you pm your location. They will help for real.

 

Hugs

[itsheresomewhere]

Jane, according to your description, he sounds and acts surprisingly like a couple of my kids...esp my dd at that age. Both of the kids were eventually diagnosed with severe sensory processing disorder and my DD was also diagnosed with both a visual processing disorder (affected her behavior because the movement of those around her made her dizzy) and a severe anxiety disorder that resulted from the overstimulation of the SPD. Both of the two kids I have mentioned freaked out over running errands (stores, car trips, changes in routine were all overstimulating and frightening), were good in front of others and holy terrors behind closed doors and could be both violent and threatening. One of them peed all the time, without discomfort or regard to the odor. One refused to bathe, no matter what the smell. Both (but esp my DD) could destabilize and disrupt the family in huge ways, for totally unexplainable reasons. People were afraid of us. It was awful.

 

If I were in your shoes, my first stop would be at an occupational therapist who specializes in sensory processing disorder. A good evaluation there will also point towards autism or other developmental disorders if they apply. A good solid year of sensory integration therapy followed by neurofeedback for increased self-regulation did the trick for my two...as well as a nice little dose of anxiety meds for DD. They no longer find their environments painful and thus no longer disrupt things unnecessarily. My little pee-er no longer does so (turns out he had dyspraxia and didn't recognize his own body signals when overstimulated or distracted). My one who refused to bathe now takes one everyday, uses deodorant and foot spray and acts like a normal kiddo 90 percent of the time. We are managing quite well now.

 

HTH. You are not alone!

 

:grouphug:

 

:iagree:. I thought sensory seeking right away. A good OT can help you with this.

[Denisemomof4]

A couple of thoughts. Ds1 was a short-tempered, tantrum-throwing kid when he was little. Except around other people. Friends used to say I had it so easy. Little did they know. My first thought was maybe he has a medical condition. But here are a couple other thoughts I had.

 

About ending activities like tv shows. Ds1 had to be told several times before an activity ended that it was getting close to the end. Like going home from the park. I'd have to tell him--with him looking at my face--that we'd be going home in 10 minutes. He had to acknowledge. Then 5 minutes. Then we'd have to go, not turn 5 minutes into 20. KWIM? It helped him transition. He had to know what was happening; it helped him feel in control. Abrupt transitions brought on tantrums because he felt out of control. Does that make sense?

 

A thought on wetting. It could be a medical condition. Or it could be your ds is trying too hard to control his body. My ds could hold it all day then he'd wet at night. When we used a bedwetting alarm he discovered he'd lost the ability to recognize the signals that he had to go. The alarm helped him re-learn what it felt like.

 

Once upon a time ds could throw such major tantrums he'd make himself throw up. These were the I'm-not-getting-what-I-want tantrums. I finally figured out after a few of these what was really happening. So I told him if he made himself throw up from a tantrum he'd have to help clean it up. Amazingly he was cured. I don't know what you can glean from this but I wanted to share. Ds was only 3-4yo at the time but clever enough to figure out that I knew what he was doing and that he'd been busted.

 

I don't know if any of this is helpful. I do know it was a hard road. Yes ds had many days that he was happy and charming. But the other days were very tough. Now that he's nearly 18 he is pleasant to be around far more often than not. :grouphug:

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree: i have dd soak, rinse and wash all her INTENTIONALS. Because there are no accidents with her. As I supervise, I have the most Ho Hum, I Am Bored Beyond Words attitude..... As I " seemingly" read something.

[SKL]

Not sure if anyone has already said this, but it could be that the chemicals used on merchandise in stores is a problem for him. Or maybe some other aspect of the sensory situation there.

 

My dd has become a liar too, and it is so disheartening. Hard to say what will work. She & I just had a couple of difficult days and I'm ready to ground the both of us until things improve. Of course, this isn't fair to those who are not having the issues.

 

Not sure what to think about the pee issue, but my gut says there's a physical or sensory trigger.

[Scarlett]

I have a 12 year old now. He was the best baby.....best toddler....wow was I the best mother ever or what? :glare: Then he turned 4. Overnight he turned into an alien! I could not control him. He would go next door and let the dog out of the gate and then run to our front door and let her (a golden retriever) into our house with our dog (a Brittany Spaniel).....both dogs would tear through my house with ds laughing like a maniac.

 

He sneaked out in the middle of the night with his dog a dozen times at least...he visited neighbors and got brought home at 11:30 by one of them. He sneaked into the garage of one neighbor at 11:00 or 12:00 and opened the door to their house and heard thier tv playing. I would wake up to find the garage door (to the street) wide open and the neighbors dog's toys in my garage.

 

During the day he would open the gate repeatedly and let our dog out. One day I told him if he misbehaved again he would be sent to his room until his dad got home. SIX HOURS later I let him out to have dinner with us....he sat through dinner....ate....smiled angelically...and then asked to be excused. He IMMEDIATELY went and opened the back gate to let our dog out.

 

I was out. of. my. mind. I didn't know what to do. Then one of the neighbors sent us a registered letter threatening to call 'the authorities' if he was not kept off their property. Well that ENRAGED me and I did not speak to that neighbor ( a long time friend) for over a year. But I took ds (then 4) out to our front yard with the letter. I said, 'do you know what this is?' He said, wide eyed, 'no.' I said, 'it is a letter from <neighbor> saying that they do not want you in their yard. At All. And if you go into their yard they are going to call the police. So....(and I showed him the property 'line') THIS is our yard and THIS is their yard and you are NEVER to go in their yard EVER again. Do you understand?'

 

He nodded, wide eyed and gorgeous.....and NEVER again did he give me a problem over that. Neighbor would be working in her yard and he would put his toes on the 'line' and hollar, 'hi Neighbor! (he knew her of course). Isn't it a beautiful day? The sun is shining and the birds are singing!' She would wave and mumble....embarrased to have threatened me over the actions of that precious child.

 

I have NEVER figured out what that was all about. My mom was going through breast cancer treatment and I was very upset by it...she was bald...we went to every chemo with her.....I prayed for her during prayers that ds heard....maybe that was it? I don't know. It was several months of unbelievable chaos and then it just stopped.

 

I am not suggesting your situation will be the same....I just understand that sometimes kids behave so uncharacteristally that it boggles the mind!

 

So hang in there!

 

:grouphug:

[Annie Laurie]

Please don't take this the wrong way, it just occurred to me when you said how sweet he was until around 18 months ago, and it's too important not to mention as something to rule out. Don't feel you have to answer me.

 

Sometimes wetting and drastic change in temperament can occur in a child who has been molested. It's likely that he's with you or your dh all the time and there's no chance this is the cause, and I certainly hope it's not. I have a cousin who was molested at a very young age by a family friend so I'm aware that I'm too hyper-vigilant about it.

[Scarlett]

Please don't take this the wrong way, it just occurred to me when you said how sweet he was until around 18 months ago, and it's too important not to mention as something to rule out. Don't feel you have to answer me.

 

Sometimes wetting and drastic change in temperament can occur in a child who has been molested. It's likely that he's with you or your dh all the time and there's no chance this is the cause, and I certainly hope it's not. I have a cousin who was molested at a very young age by a family friend so I'm aware that I'm too hyper-vigilant about it.

 

I thought of that too....:( And it does need to be considered. Hopefully there is no chance of that.

[plain jane]

Please don't take this the wrong way, it just occurred to me when you said how sweet he was until around 18 months ago, and it's too important not to mention as something to rule out. Don't feel you have to answer me.

 

Sometimes wetting and drastic change in temperament can occur in a child who has been molested. It's likely that he's with you or your dh all the time and there's no chance this is the cause, and I certainly hope it's not. I have a cousin who was molested at a very young age by a family friend so I'm aware that I'm too hyper-vigilant about it.

 

Hmmm. I don't think so. :confused: As far as I can remember I don't think I've ever left him alone with anyone other than dh. If something had happened the other kids would have been present and one of them would done or said something about it by now. I'll talk to dh about the likelihood of this possibility. But I do know for certain he's never been watched by anyone by himself (meaning without sibs there too).

[Supertechmom]

There is a huge debate in the Celiac research world that any antibodies on the blood test do reflect issues with gluten. The biopsy has notoriously high false negative rate for young children. I do know from our own personal experience that gluten does cause severe rages. Completely out of control - think the Shining (movie) kinda of crazy. If I eat gluten, I can have short fuse that gets lit in a skinny minute and spins on for hours. It is horrible. I know as a child I could rage and have insane tantrums and so did my celiac kid until the gluten stopped. It was like a brand new child.

 

Gluten free does not have to be expensive. Eat simply. Nothing processed, nothing boxed, just eat out of the produce aisle, meat and eggs. Use almond milk if no problem with nuts and go off of dairy and soy as well for say 3 months. Keep a detailed record of everything he eats and drinks, how often and what time of day he pees and poops. Record his mood when he gets up in the morning and then whenever it changes in the day. (and jot down what was going on when he changed ). I know it is a pain and very tedious to make this kind of record but it will show a pattern. Writing it down will begin to show a pattern of some sort. Every time he rages this show was on or he ate this or he peed twice in a row (constipation can make you feel grumpy as well as making you pee a lot) or x happened. I even kept every label of every food so we could trace chemicals when it seemed that it wasn't any obvious food to point out.

 

Figuring these types of things out is a rough road sometimes. Good luck!:grouphug:

[NASDAQ]

:grouphug:

 

I was that child for my mother. Awful. I feel ashamed now.

 

When is his birthday? Can he go into kindergarten in the coming year? If he acts up there, they will start the process of psychological evaluations. If he doesn't, well, that tells you something, and he's also out of your house for time you can all use to detox.

 

If he can't, how about Head Start?

[NASDAQ]

Oh, and my 4.5 year old is normal but he also started wetting himself not that long ago. I just went back to reminding him to USE THE (@#%&(@% POTTY and it sorted out.

[Cammie]

I didn't read through all the responses but one thing that struck me was the problem in stores. I remember reading that florescent lighting can have a terrible effect on some children. This might be something to look into if the behavior seems to peak when in that type of lighting.

 

:grouphug:

[LNC]

I didn't get a chance to read all the responses. The urinary frequency and large output is a symptom of type 1 diabetes. Did you already take him to the pediatrician? I would today for an a1c blood test.

 

I would schedule an appt. with a developmental pediatrician. My medium size city only has 1 - so do some research. He/she will listen to your concerns (be totally honest), and be able to help with guidance for behavior modification, medication if you go that route, and any other services that might benefit him or your family as a whole.

 

HTH! and :grouphug:

[Lizzie in Ma]

Before I say anything, I so wanted to do this...:grouphug::grouphug:

You poor thing, at your wits end, I am so sorry.

Some sort of food allergy sprung to mind but I would start at your pediatrician for sure.

I hope and pray you get some help in this situation.

[Murmer]

When he is calm, does he stare into space? Have you watched him sleep? Does he toss and turn? I wonder if he could be having seizures. My son had seizures from about 4-6 years of age. He wasn't wild all the time, but he had rages after. They weren't fall on the floor seizures, either.

 

:grouphug: I have been where you are all the way to the end of the rope. No one believed me either and I had a new baby too. Finally my dd was diagnosed ADHD and behavior disorder. But the biggest change was when we found out she was having seizures and we got her on therapeutic levels of epilepsy meds. The violent rages went away! It was a miracle in our life. My dd is still hard with all her other issues but the fact that she is no longer violent has made life livable and workable. So keep pushing perhaps a child development specialist can help.

[EinsteinBlueprint]

Have you considered spanking him? (And yes I am aware this is anti-AP.)

 

Obviously it doesn't work with all kids (worked with my son, not my daughter), and many parents simply *can't* do it, or think they can't do it....but there's a reason it has been used for millennia.

 

I'd lose the video games too.

 

There's probably something going on with him medically which you should continue to investigate, but still....there has to be consequences for defiant behavior that threaten the sanity of the family.

 

Best of luck to you. He'll turn around eventually and probably will be the one who takes care of you in your dotage!