Incredibly rude/aggressive child WWYD?

[LibraryLover]

I think if the old lady was this pushy in WAlmart, she'd not be getting a pass. She was a stranger, and was basically verbally stalking a child. She needed to back off, especially since he obviously was incapable of having the

conversation. For reasons we don't know.

Edited July 23, 2012 by LibraryLover

[SKL]

She was a stranger, and was basically verbally stalking a child. She needed to back off. I feel terrible for the kids that their parent didn't step in and save them.

 

Really?

 

"What grade are you going into"

"Why do you want to know?"

"I'm a teacher and you might be in my class."

"[rude remark about old ladies]"

...

"What game are you playing?"

"SHUT UP" followed by racist remark.

 

If I feel terrible for the kid, it's because obviously nobody taught him how to behave, and/or he has apparent emotional problems.

 

Do you ever stop to think how the world would be if adults really never spoke to children who didn't know them first?

[Ruby Rose]

You could have gone up to his parents and said something, but how would you have felt when they slapped him in the head or verbally berated him in front of you? That is probably what would have happened. Children are not born hateful and disrespectful, they are brought up that way. It's really sad because then they become adults who hate and show no respect and become thugs of society.

[2cents]

I find the "teacher" odd. The child was engaged, and not bothering anyone. SHE kept pressing interaction which, IMO, was rude and disrespectful. Would you support or do that to an adult who communicated that they didn't want interaction? Of course not.

 

I think an issue was *created* by the adult. If she was a teacher, she should have picked up from his non verbals AND verbals that it was best to let him happily be.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

I was thinking this exact same thing. We tell our children NOT to talk to strangers so I think this child's first response wasn't all that inappropriate. He may have been feeling conflict/fear when he said the second response and it wasn't well thought out. As far as him pushing the 2 yr old, that's another story if it was clearly done with malice then I might have said something to the child but perhaps he was trying to urge him along? Certainly sounds like his mom needed to be more involved.

[MommyK]

You could have gone up to his parents and said something, but how would you have felt when they slapped him in the head or verbally berated him in front of you? That is probably what would have happened. Children are not born hateful and disrespectful, they are brought up that way. It's really sad because then they become adults who hate and show no respect and become thugs of society.

 

This.. for sure. There was no good potential outcome here. Either the mom might have confronted you in an agressive manner, or she would have disciplined her child in a way that made you feel bad. There wouldn't have been a "Now Billy, we do NOT shove people. You need to apologize. That was in appropriate..."

 

More likely a smack upside the head and some yelling.

 

"You can pop him.." Ugh.

[Candid]

I find the "teacher" odd. The child was engaged, and not bothering anyone. SHE kept pressing interaction which, IMO, was rude and disrespectful. Would you support or do that to an adult who communicated that they didn't want interaction? Of course not.

 

I think an issue was *created* by the adult. If she was a teacher, she should have picked up from his non verbals AND verbals that it was best to let him happily be.

 

:iagree:

 

But I don't think I would have left my 2 yo behind with that kid either. His responses were just as odd as the adult's.

[I talk to the trees]

First- the older woman: In my experience, this is how many (most?) people of my parents' and grandparents' generation behave. Making light conversation with the person next to you in line at the store, on a bus, in a waiting room, etc... is seen as the polite thing to do. Staring at an electronic device and ignoring the human beings next to you is thought of as rude and uncouth. They were raised in a different time, when parents didn't live in fear of every person their child might encounter, and didn't expect their children to live in constant fear, either. After the second exchange, I think I would have smiled at the woman and said something like, "Well, aren't you fortunate that you won't have such a rude young man in your class!"

 

Second- your toddler: I think I would have let the boy know that I had seen his rotten behavior, then told the parents in no uncertain terms that their child was exhibiting bullying behaviors which needed to be addressed, lest he wind up being charged with assault! (They probably don't care, but at least I'd feel like I had defended my child in some way.) There is simply no excuse for a child acting that way toward another child- especially a complete stranger!

[Parrothead]

My kids wouldn't dare react that way no matter how much they wanted the old lady to leave them alone. Even when they were toddlers they wouldn't have reacted rudely other than to just refrain from answering.

 

There is no way to make the boy's reactions acceptable or blame the older lady for them.

 

I agree that she should have said a parting pleasantry after the "I don't have no old lady teachers" crack and been done with the brat. But he had already crossed the line before that. I'd'a been popping my kid myself if she talked that way.

:iagree:The kid is never going to get anyone to respect him or his needs by being so harshly rude to others. In our society small talk is allowed among strangers. The teacher engaging him in small talk was immediately met with rudeness. Sorry, I'm not giving him a pass on that.

 

As for what would I have done, well, honestly I don't think I would have left the 2-year old so far away with someone who was so obviously aggressive (his speech was aggressive to the teacher).

[Kathryn]

:iagree:

 

But I don't think I would have left my 2 yo behind with that kid either. His responses were just as odd as the adult's.

 

I didn't. The boy had gone to a different part of the store when I let my children stay on the couch without me. Then, when my 6yo got up, the boy came back and sat down next to my 2yo. I was watching my children the entire time, only five feet away, and immediately told my 2yo to come to me because I was uncomfortable with how the boy was acting.

[Parrothead]

Really?

 

"What grade are you going into"

"Why do you want to know?"

"I'm a teacher and you might be in my class."

"[rude remark about old ladies]"

...

"What game are you playing?"

"SHUT UP" followed by racist remark.

 

If I feel terrible for the kid, it's because obviously nobody taught him how to behave, and/or he has apparent emotional problems.

 

Do you ever stop to think how the world would be if adults really never spoke to children who didn't know them first?

Again, :iagree:Since when is making small talk with others waiting "in line" verbal stalking?

[Soror]

:iagree:The kid is never going to get anyone to respect him or his needs by being so harshly rude to others. In our society small talk is allowed among strangers. The teacher engaging him in small talk was immediately met with rudeness. Sorry, I'm not giving him a pass on that.

 

As for what would I have done, well, honestly I don't think I would have left the 2-year old so far away with someone who was so obviously aggressive (his speech was aggressive to the teacher).

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

[stripe]

I just don't see anything "normal" about an unsolicited interaction in which the child let the adult know he didn't want to talk and she persisted.

 

I don't think this is a case of "stranger danger" over-teaching at all.

 

Why are we expecting more maturity from *him* than her? He was pushed and pressed and acted out afterwards. None of it had to happen. :confused:

 

I'm not denying the "you can pop him" ickyness or the rudeness on his part. But maybe this kid *doesn't* have white teachers.:001_huh: Context implies that he's being raised in a way many of us reading here would not be comfortable with.

 

But, ok. Let's assume that he needs some help with "normal interaction." A strange "teacher lady" at a random store is not the best teaching tool.

I was responding to sparrow's point and not specifically to the OP. I agree with you that the whole thing was strange. Like sparrow, I do find some old people to be really socially clueless and pushy. I also think that there are two sorts of behavior patterns based on generation: what was common when the seniors were kids (respectfully answer elderly people's questions, give out a lot of personal information [name, age, school, etc], and engage in discussion with them). This may be friendly or it may be really invasive or even creepy. Then young people are expected to be obsessively secretive about themselves (stranger danger).

 

And I just don't believe that white people think less about race than black people. White adults may have learned not to talk about it, and never to refer to anyone as "black" as part of the "I don't see color, we're all human beings" song and dance, and they may tell their white children not to say anything about skin color. People who are not members of the majority culture DO have to learn to live in two cultures and handle race in a different way. Identifying someone as white is not racist. I think it's entirely possible that "I don't talk to white people!" is his version of "stranger danger."

 

I think stranger danger is totally stupid. And yes, I was once the person accused of stalking a kid. When I was at the library before storytime, and a boy was playing (? or aggravating, more like) my son, and the other boy said "hi" to me, and I responded "hi," before dealing with my kids, the preschool group leader started shrieking and carrying on about not talking to strangers, although it was entirely possible that I might actually have known this kid (although I didn't), since she was not his mother. Apparently a lot of kidnappers are mothers with young children who steal others' kids and leave their own behind.

Edited July 23, 2012 by stripe

[Wheres Toto]

The kid was quietly engaged and not bothering anyone until he was questioned. Then he did respond rudely but it's impossible to know what issues the kid may have had in the past, what kind of homelife he has, or if he has some special needs.

 

But beyond that, do we regularly go around chatting to people who are clearly not interested in chatting? Those who are reading a book in a waiting room? or having a quiet, private conversation? Just because he was a child and playing an electronic game doesn't make it less rude to disrupt him.

 

My son is socially "off" (possible atypical autism, definitely adhd and gifted). He is very active, talks to random people, says things that would be considered rude (although he often doesn't mean it that way, to him he's just stating the obvious). While we are working on these issues, 99% of the time I avoid bringing him into a situation like this because it would have the potential to be exhausting and cause trouble. If I do have to bring him somewhere I would bring along his Gameboy and sit him somewhere out of the way, since this will keep him quiet and he won't be disturbing people. Although I would keep a close eye on him to make sure he stays put and into his game. I would be kind of annoyed if someone disturbed him.

[SKL]

I think it's entirely possible that "I don't talk to white people!" is his version of "stranger danger."

 

I strongly doubt that anyone would give my kid the benefit of the doubt if she piped out, "Shut up! I don't talk to black people!" Especially after she did speak to said person a couple times already.

 

I agree with you about stranger danger being stupid. However, I strongly doubt that was the issue here. The kid's mom invited the stranger to "pop" her kid without even investigating the situation, so I would be surprised if she privately tells him to be afraid of exchanging pleasantries with a stranger. A paranoid mom in that situation usually gathers her little chicks under her wings.

 

I am part of a movement that gets kids back into interaction with society. I instruct my children to talk to strangers (when spoken to) and be polite to them. There are ways to stay safe without being obnoxious.

[cdrumm4448]

I speak to children all the time when we're out in public and waiting. It passes the time and makes it more enjoyable for all. If I am speaking to a child or an adult, common courtesy and manners dictate that person will temporarily stop what they are doing to respond. Not responding is rude, no matter your reason. Responding in the way the child did is rude. A child should make a habit of showing respect to an adult, especially when that adult is just making conversation. BUT, I don't leave my children any further away from me in a public place than I would leave my wallet, so I witness these conversations when they involve my own children.

 

Manners have nothing to do with skin color.

[sparrow]

OP, I stand by my original statement that I would have said something to the child. I would have met his gaze and said, "You do not put your hands on other people" rounded up my kid, and been on my way. Short and simple. No onus of guilt put on the child or the "teacher lady".

 

The turn this thread took still makes me shake my head. Apparently, I have been "verbally stalked" to within an inch of my sanity. I know it by a different, but much longer, name: "senior citizens with time on their hands that think I have all the time in the world for chit-chat and witty anecdotes that they've told me 25 times before".

 

If you think that a youngster playing an electronic device would be a deterrent for pressing a conversation, you haven't dealt with the elderly very often. My husband and I can be physically laboring, only to have one of our clientele come over and chat. It gets to the point that we have to say, "hey, it's been nice talking, but we really need to get back to work".

 

We also have a retired teacher among our folks that likes to quiz my kids :glare:. She's pushy, too. She really thought she could bring my painfully shy daughter "out of her shell". None of this struck me as odd or out of the realm of normal. It *is* irritating, but saying that it would cause such rude outbursts and physical aggression seems reaching, to me.

[LibraryLover]

I always talk to people in public-- drives my kids crazy.

 

But I wouldn't persist with someone who clearly didn't want the interaction/couldn't handle it etc. We don't know if the child is just plain rude, or has emotional/cognitive issues etc. Pushing it wasn't helping anyone.

 

Im sure the teacher is a very nice person, and didn't mean to 'cause' anything. But she missed the cues, and the mother was incapable of helping him manage the interaction.

 

That child may be in need of some serious help.

Edited July 23, 2012 by LibraryLover

[SitLongTalkMuch]

OK, I'm finding this thread very odd. Do you seriously not find that the majority of older people behave this way :confused:. I certainly wouldn't bother a child, or adult, that was occupied, but many older people I come in contact with do. I don't think they consider it rude. They're often lonely, and perhaps not as observant as you, or I, may be. I'm surprised that so many of you believe the teacher caused the rude behavior.

 

The primary clientele of our business is retirees. I guess I'm just used to it. Many of them *can* be rude, but I don't see it in this case.

 

Agreed.

[SitLongTalkMuch]

I was thinking the same thing. I think it also may be cultural. Here we talk to strangers at the store, dealership, just about anywhere as long as they don't send off any red flags and elderly really want to connect with people. It's not uncommon at all.

 

Not uncommon here either. I have conversations with all ages everywhere I go. I'm in small town rural USA.

[SitLongTalkMuch]

It sounds to me like the boy was hoping for a reaction. So it's probably good that he didn't get one.

 

 

I've mentioned here before (and got blasted) that some of the defensiveness of minority kids comes from the home. I've seen kids as young as 3 spout off about blacks this and whites that, when nobody else in the room had even begun to think about the differences, or even use the terms "black" and "white" to refer to humans. My guess is that this young man heard a lot of colorful stuff about color at home.

 

It may be true that teacher-lady was intrusive, but so what? Kids need to be respectful to older people, including those who are eccentric or senile. And I don't believe this boy wasn't aware of that expectation.

 

Agreeing again.

[mycalling]

Wow, it's appalling that so many of you are just fine with him saying, "Shut up! I don't talk to White people!" If he was white and had said "Shut up! I don't talk to black people!" towards an elderly black teacher it'd be an entirely different discussion, I'm sure.:glare:

 

Also, I think it's my job as a parent to say something when another child hurts my own...or any other child in my presence, for that matter. Next time OP, please say something in defense of your dc. It's adults tolerating his behavior that's allowing him to think it's acceptable.

[NotSoObvious]

I find the "teacher" odd. The child was engaged, and not bothering anyone. SHE kept pressing interaction which, IMO, was rude and disrespectful. Would you support or do that to an adult who communicated that they didn't want interaction? Of course not.

 

I think an issue was *created* by the adult. If she was a teacher, she should have picked up from his non verbals AND verbals that it was best to let him happily be.

 

I'm always surprised at how people think it's their business to ask my children questions, especially when I'm not there.

 

However, because I was a teacher, I probably would have said something to the boy after he pushed my kid- something like, "Excuse me! Do NOT touch my child." Although...maybe it wouldn't have been worth dealing with the mother, who sounds like a loose cannon.

 

I never feel like I said what I should have though. I'm usually just shocked by the other person's behavior!

[mom2scouts]

:iagree:The kid is never going to get anyone to respect him or his needs by being so harshly rude to others. In our society small talk is allowed among strangers. The teacher engaging him in small talk was immediately met with rudeness. Sorry, I'm not giving him a pass on that.

 

As for what would I have done, well, honestly I don't think I would have left the 2-year old so far away with someone who was so obviously aggressive (his speech was aggressive to the teacher).

 

:iagree:The very first words out of the kids mouth were rude and aggressive. If he didn't want to engage in conversation, he could have just continued playing his game or said that he doesn't talk to strangers and continued playing without responding. I would have moved my children away from him after hearing this exchange.

[momaof3]

I probably would have addressed the child and let him know that pushing my child isn't nice and I would have also let the parents know what happened. A child should never be allowed to get away with something and regardless of how the parents would have handled it at least you would have brought it to their attention that their son put his hands on yours. It's our job to protect our children and we may not always be there so IMO letting your son see that you said something would have been good.

[3browneyedboys4me]

I find it interesting the lack of tolerance found in this thread! Have we gotten so sensitive that our children can't handle a few light hearted questions from an old lady? Really? Give me a break! How rude! That's all it is...simply rude!

 

There is no excuse for his behavior, period. My children are asked questions all the time and i know it makes them uncomfortable at times, but they are always kind to ppl when they talk with them. It's a sad day when a child can be so obviously rude to an adult and the popular opinion is to say that the lady was at fault b/c she invaded his personal time and space. Wow! Just wow!

 

As for the pushing of the child, I would have walked right over to him and looked him right in the eyeballs and told him he is NOT to lay hands on my child again. Then, I would have walked right over to his parents and told them that he just pushed my two yr old and they need to watch their child.

[FiveOaksAcademy]

:)

Edited July 23, 2012 by FiveOaksAcademy

[FiveOaksAcademy]

:)

Edited July 23, 2012 by FiveOaksAcademy

[aggieamy]

I find it interesting the lack of tolerance found in this thread! Have we gotten so sensitive that our children can't handle a few light hearted questions from an old lady? Really? Give me a break! How rude! That's all it is...simply rude!

 

There is no excuse for his behavior, period. My children are asked questions all the time and i know it makes them uncomfortable at times, but they are always kind to ppl when they talk with them. It's a sad day when a child can be so obviously rude to an adult and the popular opinion is to say that the lady was at fault b/c she invaded his personal time and space. Wow! Just wow!

 

As for the pushing of the child, I would have walked right over to him and looked him right in the eyeballs and told him he is NOT to lay hands on my child again. Then, I would have walked right over to his parents and told them that he just pushed my two yr old and they need to watch their child.

 

:iagree:

[Princess Peach]

I would've ignored everything up and until he pushed my 2 yo. That is over the line. Way over.

[momaof3]

I find it interesting the lack of tolerance found in this thread! Have we gotten so sensitive that our children can't handle a few light hearted questions from an old lady? Really? Give me a break! How rude! That's all it is...simply rude!

 

There is no excuse for his behavior, period. My children are asked questions all the time and i know it makes them uncomfortable at times, but they are always kind to ppl when they talk with them. It's a sad day when a child can be so obviously rude to an adult and the popular opinion is to say that the lady was at fault b/c she invaded his personal time and space. Wow! Just wow!

 

As for the pushing of the child, I would have walked right over to him and looked him right in the eyeballs and told him he is NOT to lay hands on my child again. Then, I would have walked right over to his parents and told them that he just pushed my two yr old and they need to watch their child.

I agree!!!!!!!!!!!!

[momaof3]

Wow, it's appalling that so many of you are just fine with him saying, "Shut up! I don't talk to White people!" If he was white and had said "Shut up! I don't talk to black people!" towards an elderly black teacher it'd be an entirely different discussion, I'm sure.:glare:

 

Also, I think it's my job as a parent to say something when another child hurts my own...or any other child in my presence, for that matter. Next time OP, please say something in defense of your dc. It's adults tolerating his behavior that's allowing him to think it's acceptable.

For me it doesn't matter what race he was speaking to the boy was out of line and needed to be dealt with at that moment. My children aren't allowed to talk to any adult disrespectfully.

[Pink Fairy]

The old lady should have backed off, but I wouldn't want my kids to talk that way to anyone of any age. I think it's obvious that the little boy has problems (his mom sounds like a real gem), and I don't know that you could have done or said anything in those circumstances that would have been helpful. :grouphug:

[Joanne]

Originally Posted by MyCalling

Wow, it's appalling that so many of you are just fine with him saying, "Shut up! I don't talk to White people!" If he was white and had said "Shut up! I don't talk to black people!" towards an elderly black teacher it'd be an entirely different discussion, I'm sure.

 

Also, I think it's my job as a parent to say something when another child hurts my own...or any other child in my presence, for that matter. Next time OP, please say something in defense of your dc. It's adults tolerating his behavior that's allowing him to think it's acceptable.

 

First, most people in this thread share your view that the little boy was rude and out of line. Appalled? So many?

 

Second, I have not read one person in this thread who are "just fine" with his words or aggression with the 2 year old.

[Joker]

For me it doesn't matter what race he was speaking to the boy was out of line and needed to be dealt with at that moment. My children aren't allowed to talk to any adult disrespectfully.

 

As far as this thread goes, I don't think the older woman was out of line. I do not agree with the above, though. My oldest has been disrespectful to an adult and it was definitely warranted. I have never told them they must respect all adults. I think that could be dangerous.

[OnTheBrink]

My kids wouldn't dare react that way no matter how much they wanted the old lady to leave them alone. Even when they were toddlers they wouldn't have reacted rudely other than to just refrain from answering.

 

There is no way to make the boy's reactions acceptable or blame the older lady for them.

 

I agree that she should have said a parting pleasantry after the "I don't have no old lady teachers" crack and been done with the brat. But he had already crossed the line before that. I'd'a been popping my kid myself if she talked that way.

 

:iagree:

 

First- the older woman: In my experience, this is how many (most?) people of my parents' and grandparents' generation behave. Making light conversation with the person next to you in line at the store, on a bus, in a waiting room, etc... is seen as the polite thing to do. Staring at an electronic device and ignoring the human beings next to you is thought of as rude and uncouth. They were raised in a different time, when parents didn't live in fear of every person their child might encounter, and didn't expect their children to live in constant fear, either. After the second exchange, I think I would have smiled at the woman and said something like, "Well, aren't you fortunate that you won't have such a rude young man in your class!"

 

:iagree:

 

I speak to children all the time when we're out in public and waiting. It passes the time and makes it more enjoyable for all. If I am speaking to a child or an adult, common courtesy and manners dictate that person will temporarily stop what they are doing to respond. Not responding is rude, no matter your reason. Responding in the way the child did is rude. A child should make a habit of showing respect to an adult, especially when that adult is just making conversation. BUT, I don't leave my children any further away from me in a public place than I would leave my wallet, so I witness these conversations when they involve my own children.

 

Manners have nothing to do with skin color.

 

:iagree:

 

I find it interesting the lack of tolerance found in this thread! Have we gotten so sensitive that our children can't handle a few light hearted questions from an old lady? Really? Give me a break! How rude! That's all it is...simply rude!

 

There is no excuse for his behavior, period. My children are asked questions all the time and i know it makes them uncomfortable at times, but they are always kind to ppl when they talk with them. It's a sad day when a child can be so obviously rude to an adult and the popular opinion is to say that the lady was at fault b/c she invaded his personal time and space. Wow! Just wow!

 

 

:iagree: Best post in this thread!

[Lisbeth]

I believe I would have sharply said "Do NOT touch my child." And then steered clear.

 

This. I don't let physical assaults go. Period. That would teach my kids that mom won't stand up for them. They need to know I will and DO.

 

I don't find the adult rude at all. She clearly was trying to engage a young person, however awkwardly. Maybe she was ODD, but not rude. This child clearly learned his dazzingly wonderful manners from the parent who yelled over to "pop him." Classy!

 

Same race/diff race doesn't phase me either. I am equal opportunity.

[Lisbeth]

Wow, reading through the whole thread, I am amazed at the mental gymnastics being exercised to give this kid a pass on rudeness, a racist comment, ageism, and physical assault.

 

Excusing behavior like that is exactly why it continues to exist. Why stop being bad when society is ready to jump in and say you were justified?

[Joanne]

Wow, reading through the whole thread, I am amazed at the mental gymnastics being exercised to give this kid a pass on rudeness, a racist comment, ageism, and physical assault.

 

Excusing behavior like that is exactly why it continues to exist. Why stop being bad when society is ready to jump in and say you were justified?

 

I didn't say he was *justified*. I said HIS boundaries were not respected. He then was expected to react with wisdom and maturity ~ characteristics unlikely for most 6 year olds, but especially so for a boy whose parents encourage random violence from strangers and strangers don't pick up on his non verbals to leave him alone.

 

Why all the anger at the kid and not the parents? The kid doesn't learn that in a vacuum.

 

His aggression on a small child is not ok, and I posted about it, but clearly this kid exists in a world most of us don't. And random aggression between kids is hardly rare. Plenty of posters on this board have dealt with an aggressive child; their own.

[Rtcrmine]

I don't think the lady was rude. She asked a question he said shut and she did. The kid has major issues!

[kolamum]

I would have said very loudly, 'Why would you push a baby?"

 

Recently my child was pushed into a crosswalk WHILE CARS WERE coming by a DOPEY teen. I thought my child had tried to cross early & yanked him back. A man next to me who had slurred speech & heaps of bags on him kept trying to tell me something but I paid him no mind presuming he'd come from the pub.

 

When we got to the other side this guy pointed to the teens who were laughing & said, "PUSHED!" I was lived. Had they not been running the other way I would have called the police. To this day it upsets me I did not stop & try to understand the man speaking to me.

[kristi26]

I honestly don't know. W/the mom giving permission to a stranger to 'pop him', I truly don't know.

 

Honestly, I most likely would have done the same thing you did---and I'd be feeling the same way you feel. :glare:

 

I would have done the same thing you did. I don't see how talking to the child or the parent could have helped in this situation.

 

I agree with all of this. Because of the response from the parents, I would have said nothing and just kept my children close to me.