A new guy in my dd's life is very religious

[justLisa]

:lol: I was 20 and my husband was 29 when we started dating. We were married soon after. I was supporting myself halfway across the country from my family, so our life stages weren't vastly different. He had no qualms about kissing, but our continuing marriage suggests he wasn't just looking for a quick fling with some young thing. ;)

 

I was 22 and DH was 28. I was home schooled, graduated before I was 20, and was just ready to settle down. I was not in to dating. DH and I new each other for exactly 8 months when we married, and I had a 6 month engagement :tongue_smilie:. We are celebrating 9 years this summer! He's totally my bestie.

[clarkacademy]

I wouldn't judge anyone on where they work in this economy. Ecleast he is willing to work any job instead of saying nope not good enough! I know people who have lost wonderful jobs they had been at for years and have had to take anything they could to just get by. I think it is horrible to judge anyone on where they work when so many sit at home.

[CalicoKat]

I'd be careful - he may be "missionary dating".

 

 

FWIW, I'd want some answers as to his exact beliefs and expectations in the relationship.

 

:iagree:

 

If his faith is as important to him as all that in the end the relationship won't get to the marriage bit. He will believe that he should marry someone who has a similar level of conviction & faith (not necessarily the same denomination).

[gardenmom5]

I'm a religious person - my son is more religious than his current girlfriend. *I* have concerns about this boy just from what you said my flags are up. He's pursing things awfully fast.

 

they've ONLY dated twice, and they're talking about marriage? granted, it should give them some idea if the other is even worth the time dating. but she needs to ask herself some serious questions.

 

If your dd pursues a relationship with this boy, will he expect her to join his church even if she doesn't believe in its teachings? what exactly are those teachings that his church teaches? NOT what 'he' says they teach but what the church says. if say they end up getting married, will he expect to tell her what to do and she has to obey him? would she be willing to give up any catholic beliefs or traditions she holds because he wants her to?

 

eta: I just saw the comments on "missionary dating" yep - sounds suspecious to me. his is a "minister", even if it's "just" youth. if he was truly looking for a girl to marry - he'd be looking among girls with his own belief system. the fact he's kissed previous girls, but isn't interested in kissing her by claiming he's "saving himself"?

 

depending upon the restaurant, waiters can make very good money. but we're talking high end restaurants, not chains, no matter how nice. I remember one waiter at a restaraunt in Vancouver BC who was there two years later - and remembered how I liked my Steak! he was good.

Edited May 25, 2012 by gardenmom5

[amy g.]

Or the compromise could go the other way. I was more committed to my nondenominational church, but we now all go to the Catholic church where my husband is more comfortable.

 

It doesn't matter much to me what church we go to, since my relationship with God is direct, and not filtered through a denomination.

[mommy5]

I would be concerned as well. If he is so strong in his faith, then I would think he would want a girl who was as well. I consider myself a strong christian, but sometimes people start using the christian faith as a way to start making radical rules in their lives. Then they start to use these rules as their own form of "salvation". Sounds like this guy is wishy washy to me. He makes a strong stand on kissing, but not on dating a girl of his own faith? Strange.

 

I agree with the bolded. I'm not so sure about him dating someone outside of his beliefs ... or why he would. Part of me thinks this whole things is fine ... except for that part ... and then I think it is really strange. :confused:

[TranquilMind]

Night Elf:

Last night, on the second date, he told her he didn't kiss as he believes it is intimate and that should be saved for marriage. He also admitted he has kissed girls before and that this was a new thing for him.

 

Her stepmom, who has been extremely excited at every bit of news about this young man, has totally changed her opinion of him at this new bit of information. I am not as bothered, but I do share the same concern in that i'm wondering if this is part of his church's belief.

 

I doubt this is any part of a church belief. Some people just decide to take it slow and to wait for the person God is bringing to him. That part is fine. I do find it odd that he won't kiss but he's fine dating girls that may not share his faith. Or maybe he is just waiting to see how it unfolds.

 

 

What does she do next? What does she ask him? We are not a religious family. She told him she was open to hearing what he believes and what he can share. Basically she agreed to let him witness to her. That's not a bad thing.

 

That's fine. As they continue to talk, they will figure out what, if anything, they have in common.

 

 

But if the no kissing thing does have something to do with his church, what else might there be that she should be aware of?

 

 

I seriously doubt it. Did he mention what church he attends? She can google it and find a statement of faith somewhere.

 

We're trying to come up with questions for her to find out more. She does have the website to his church and I looked at their beliefs. They are an interdenominational church, but I can't tell if they are a planted church or something entirely independent. I guess that's the first thing she should ask. I want to be able to look up more information beyond what is on their website. They are an outreach church and have stats posted as to how many people they have witnessed to and how many have been saved.

 

It will all unfold naturally. No need to do anything now, I'd say.

 

She said that as much as they have talked, both in person and on the phone, he doesn't come across as preachy. He told her his faith was extremely important in his life, but he hasn't said anything about her.

 

I'm not saying this guy looks bad. I just want her to know what to ask as she gets to know him better.

 

Sounds good so far.

[elegantlion]

I guess I don't get the "well he's just a waiter.. why?" questions. In some countries being a waiter is a chosen profession, not just for wannabees. He's also a youth pastor, working part-time as a waiter. Serving at high end restaurant is not being a McDonalds cashier. It can also pay very well. Some people do actually chose jobs in the service industry and do very well. Face it, even in this economy restaurant work has better stability than other careers, people will always eat out. The hours can be flexible, it's great exercise, and never dull. He's been there five years, wow, that's longer than some of our dh's or ourselves have been able to keep a job in this economy.

 

The fact he's 29 and "just" a waiter wouldn't enter into my cautions.

[gardenmom5]

Or the compromise could go the other way. I was more committed to my nondenominational church, but we now all go to the Catholic church where my husband is more comfortable.

 

It doesn't matter much to me what church we go to, since my relationship with God is direct, and not filtered through a denomination.

except he's a "youth minister" at his church, and I assume being paid money for his services.

 

Night elf: They are an outreach church and have stats posted as to how many people they have witnessed to and how many have been saved.

another flag he's only "dating" her as a missionary tool, not because he's actually interested in her.

Edited May 25, 2012 by gardenmom5

[Night Elf]

The thread might be too long for this to have any effect, but I wanted to make the whole marriage thing clear. They never discussed marriage as a personal thing like "between us", it was very general as in "what are you looking for when you think of who you want to marry". I think that is perfectly acceptable considering they may have had opposite ideas.

 

As for age gap, I don't believe it is a problem. I started dating her dad who was 25 when I was 18. I'm not sure if I can completely attribute our divorce to marrying so young. I can say when I look back on things, I don't think I was anymore mature at 25 (when we divorced) than I was at 18. I didn't really feel like I was a responsible adult until my mid-30s. You couldn't have told me that until I felt it for myself.

 

My DH is 11 years older than I am. We knew each other only 6 months before getting engaged. We've been happily married for 16 yrs. now.

 

Life experiences certainly can come into play, but so can life plans. Dd20 has absolutely no desire to party during her young adult years like some of her friends. She's just not into that. I wasn't either. I knew from the age of 17 that I wanted to graduate high school, get a secretarial job, get married, and have a family. I've always been happy with those goals. I just have never wanted anything else, not even now at the age of 44. She is feeling much the same way. She's had several boyfriends. She felt like a couple of them could lead to marriage, but they didn't. She's also turned down dates with guys that she doesn't click with. She has a good friend who fusses at her for that. I think dd is being smart.

[FairyMom]

I guess I don't get the "well he's just a waiter.. why?" questions. In some countries being a waiter is a chosen profession, not just for wannabees. He's also a youth pastor, working part-time as a waiter. Serving at high end restaurant is not being a McDonalds cashier. It can also pay very well. Some people do actually chose jobs in the service industry and do very well. Face it, even in this economy restaurant work has better stability than other careers, people will always eat out. The hours can be flexible, it's great exercise, and never dull. He's been there five years, wow, that's longer than some of our dh's or ourselves have been able to keep a job in this economy.

 

The fact he's 29 and "just" a waiter wouldn't enter into my cautions.

 

The one thing that would be a red flag to me is if he is doing it "just because." In a previous post, it was stated that he didn't like his degree, which, of course, is his choice. I *would* be cautious if he was just a waiter because he had no direction at 29. If being a waiter were his direction, it would not bring up any red flags to me. It's more of the attitude that a temporary thing would convey if my dd's potential boyfriend was really wishy-washy at 29. I hope that makes sense. :)

[amy g.]

She sounds smart to me too.

[SnowWhite]

Having just left a super conservative church where we were expected to save our first kiss for our wedding, here are some things I would bring up in conversation before getting in too deep:

 

1) Stance re: birth control- Quiverfull is often the next step after "pure courtship."

2) Stance re: married women having a career- same reason

3) Ideas regarding child rearing: Watch out for "Pearl-isms" like "you have to break the child's will".

4) Stance re: homeschooling- is it something he thinks is highly important for his future children (in case your daughter might prefer to send her kids to school).

 

The previous poster who mentioned Gothard has the same kind of radar I do, and I would add in the Duggars. Fine, upstanding, wholesome family though they are, I would not want to be Michelle Duggar.

[Parrothead]

I think dd is being smart.

:iagree: I also admire the fact that she is able to talk to you about all of this.

[Heatherwith4]

So has she ever lived away from home? I just think the gap in experience is too big at this point--and honestly, when we were 20 my friends would have all thought that a 29 year old who was interested in dating one of us was creepy.

I'm trying not to be offended here, but seriously? My DH was 28 and I was 19 when we began dating and were married. His intentions were anything but creepy. I lived at home with my parents until we married. We've had no trouble with difference in life experiences. We will celebrate 10 years together in October.

[deacongirl]

I'm trying not to be offended here, but seriously? My DH was 28 and I was 19 when we began dating and were married. His intentions were anything but creepy. I lived at home with my parents until we married. We've had no trouble with difference in life experiences. We will celebrate 10 years together in October.

 

Please accept my sincere apology for any offense I caused. I am coming from a completely different place, and from my experience, and that of my family and friends, who went away to college and lived independently before getting married, it would have seemed creepy to me. I personally would encourage my 19 yr old to wait to get married, but that is me and my family, and obviously not what is right for everyone. Clearly there are instances where a 10 yr. age gap at a relatively young age works and works well. I am very happy for those for whom it has been the right choice.

[Heatherwith4]

Please accept my sincere apology for any offense I caused. I am coming from a completely different place, and from my experience, and that of my family and friends, who went away to college and lived independently before getting married, it would have seemed creepy to me. I personally would encourage my 19 yr old to wait to get married, but that is me and my family, and obviously not what is right for everyone. Clearly there are instances where a 10 yr. age gap at a relatively young age works and works well. I am very happy for those for whom it has been the right choice.

No worries! Everyone's experiences are different. :)

[LittleIzumi]

Please accept my sincere apology for any offense I caused. I am coming from a completely different place, and from my experience, and that of my family and friends, who went away to college and lived independently before getting married, it would have seemed creepy to me. I personally would encourage my 19 yr old to wait to get married, but that is me and my family, and obviously not what is right for everyone. Clearly there are instances where a 10 yr. age gap at a relatively young age works and works well. I am very happy for those for whom it has been the right choice.

 

Everyone's experiences are definitely different. I got married at 19, and was a senior in college at the time living across the country from my family, and dh was 8 years older than me. Still is, in fact :lol:, and it's 9 years this autumn.

 

OP, the only thing that really worries me is the tendency you mentioned of your daughter to adopt the likes of whomever she's dating. That makes it very hard to figure out if they really would work long-term or only until the newness wore off and she figured out what she, herself, really wants, and where the relationship would be then.

[elegantlion]

The one thing that would be a red flag to me is if he is doing it "just because." In a previous post, it was stated that he didn't like his degree, which, of course, is his choice. I *would* be cautious if he was just a waiter because he had no direction at 29. If being a waiter were his direction, it would not bring up any red flags to me. It's more of the attitude that a temporary thing would convey if my dd's potential boyfriend was really wishy-washy at 29. I hope that makes sense. :)

 

Yup, that makes sense. It's better than sitting on his parent's couch pondering his choices though.

[HappyCrazyMama]

I'm trying not to be offended here, but seriously? My DH was 28 and I was 19 when we began dating and were married. His intentions were anything but creepy. I lived at home with my parents until we married. We've had no trouble with difference in life experiences. We will celebrate 10 years together in October.

:iagree: I'm not really offended but I just don't understand that perspective I guess.~shrug~ We've got 20 years under our belt. The only trouble it's caused in our marriage is that dh was ready to be done having children before me. For some reason he doesn't want to be 70 with a 20 year old, I don't know what his problem is.:tongue_smilie::lol:

[astrid]

I haven't read all the responses yet, so this may be completely off the wall or may have been mentioned, but if I were the young woman, I'd want to have a long conversation about where his political views land. If a guy was on the complete opposite end of the political spectrum from me, that would be a deal breaker.

 

And yeah, I think the mixed kissing messages is odd. And I'd also want to be sure he didn't see me as a "project."

 

astrid

[gardenmom5]

I'm trying not to be offended here, but seriously? My DH was 28 and I was 19 when we began dating and were married. His intentions were anything but creepy. I lived at home with my parents until we married. We've had no trouble with difference in life experiences. We will celebrate 10 years together in October.

:iagree: it really depends upon the guy, AND the girl. dh was 33 when we got married. he had a "career", was building a house, etc. I lived with my mom. I was MUCH younger. we've been married 30 years. we are quite well matched.

 

:iagree: I'm not really offended but I just don't understand that perspective I guess.~shrug~ We've got 20 years under our belt. The only trouble it's caused in our marriage is that dh was ready to be done having children before me. For some reason he doesn't want to be 70 with a 20 year old, I don't know what his problem is.:tongue_smilie::lol:

 

dh was 57 when dudeling was born. (he does NOT look his age - he looks younger. I have far more gray than him. it's. not. fair.!) He thinks it's hysterical to be mistaken for grandpa and get to correct people. Glad most of his family is fairly long lived. the girls are no longer fazed by having people think they're mom. Now both boys have been mistaken for dad - but the one person who mistook 2ds (12 1/2 years older) didn't actually look at his face just this "man" who was over 6' tall who was with him.

Edited May 26, 2012 by gardenmom5

[Catwoman]

After reading Beth's updates, the guy is sounding a lot better to me. (Well, except for the "no kilt picture" thing -- I'm still kind of bitter about that. ;))

 

I'm not excited that he's still a waiter at 29, but I am very pleased that he has held his job at the same restaurant for 5 years. That leads me to believe he's reliable and trustworthy at work.

 

I have no idea about the youth pastor thing, because I don't know the details.

 

It sounds like he and Beth's dd have had normal conversations, not serious talks about religion or marriage, except in fairly general terms, and I think that's just fine. Thus far, the guy seems supportive of the things her dd wants to do, and isn't raising any red flags by saying anything weird or super-restrictive.

 

Truthfully, I think she should give the guy a chance. He's cute, he's nice, and he's employed. He wants to do more with his life, but he's not entirely sure what that will be, but it's not like he's reading comic books in his mother's basement while he figures it out. He's out there doing things.

 

Overall, I must say that he sounds pretty good so far. I must also say that if he gets to really like Beth's dd, the "no kissing" rule will probably fly out the window relatively quickly. (And I would have no problem with that.)

[8circles]

For me, the big red flag is what you found on the çhurch website. Salvation stats? On a public website? It just makes the "missionary dating" scenario more probable. I could be totally wrong and would be open to the relationship happening but my eyes would be wide open about it. He does sound like a nice guy otherwise.

 

The dating outside his faith is weird when he's a pastor. That is also flag-worthy.

[mommy5]

For me, the big red flag is what you found on the çhurch website. Salvation stats? On a public website? It just makes the "missionary dating" scenario more probable. I could be totally wrong and would be open to the relationship happening but my eyes would be wide open about it. He does sound like a nice guy otherwise.

 

The dating outside his faith is weird when he's a pastor. That is also flag-worthy.

 

I agree with that ... salvation stats does seem a bit odd...

[Night Elf]

After reading Beth's updates, the guy is sounding a lot better to me.

 

Yeah, although she's been surprised at a few things, such as his age, his religious work, and the no kissing, she thinks he's a nice guy and definitely wants to see him again. They are going out tomorrow and he only said that it is a surprise where they are going. Of course we're crazy curious. But she's excited about it nonetheless.

[Catwoman]

Yeah, although she's been surprised at a few things, such as his age, his religious work, and the no kissing, she thinks he's a nice guy and definitely wants to see him again. They are going out tomorrow and he only said that it is a surprise where they are going. Of course we're crazy curious. But she's excited about it nonetheless.

 

Tell her to have fun, but more importantly, remind her that we want DETAILS! :D

[Trish]

Make sure this is not a cult!

[Incognito]

FWIW, I come from a relatively conservative Christian background (not legalistic... politically conservative maybe?), and am imagining it from the guy's perspective. He meets a nice girl who is close to her family. He figures - why not go out a few times? Maybe God brought her to the restaurant for a reason. ;)

 

He likely doesn't date in the church because of his position of power as a pastor. He probably thinks that Night Elf's daughter is Christian because she has said she was baptized and confirmed. He's trying to understand what her personal beliefs are, but Catholic Christianity isn't out of consideration, as there is the same basic foundation of belief in Jesus.

 

He's a youth pastor - they are notorious for growing up late. It works well with the job - energy for the teens, but usually the maturity is a little slower too. So it's not like he is an older guy preying on a young girl.

 

He probably read the "I kissed dating goodbye" book by Joshua Harris with his youth group and wants to try it. :) Although if he is going out alone with her maybe not... There is an emphasis on not doing alone-type dates for most of the courtship, IIRC. It has been 15 years or so since I read the book myself, so I could be a little off. Or maybe he knows he would have a hard time stopping at just kissing once they are in the midst of it, so he is drawing the line further back to prevent crossing his own boundaries.

 

By 29 he may have some commitment issues - even if he talks quite seriously up front.

 

I think I would personally suggest reading a book together. Something Christian. Perhaps Blue Like Jazz. Then they run into theological issues to discuss, and understand where each person is really coming from.

 

The church putting conversion stats on the website is probably the only super weird thing to me. I'd ask him about it. Why do they post that information? Who does it help?

 

My guess: he's a sweet goof who loves beautiful women and God. He is hoping that your daughter is as beautiful inside to him as she is on the outside. He's made relationship mistakes before and wants to be careful.

[Night Elf]

Tell her to have fun, but more importantly, remind her that we want DETAILS! :D

 

She laughed. She said her dating life has never been this interesting to other people

 

Oh.. oh.. when they were out last night, she found out he had 2 tattoos. He said that he got one of them when he thought he was a surfer. :lol: I forgot to tell her to ask him where he's from. There isn't a whole lot of surfing going on in Atlanta, GA.

[Catwoman]

She laughed. She said her dating life has never been this interesting to other people

 

Tell her we don't get out much.

 

Oh.. oh.. when they were out last night, she found out he had 2 tattoos. He said that he got one of them when he thought he was a surfer. :lol: I forgot to tell her to ask him where he's from. There isn't a whole lot of surfing going on in Atlanta, GA.

 

OK, now he's starting to sound kind of cool and interesting. :thumbup:

[Marylou]

She laughed. She said her dating life has never been this interesting to other people

 

Oh.. oh.. when they were out last night, she found out he had 2 tattoos. He said that he got one of them when he thought he was a surfer. :lol: I forgot to tell her to ask him where he's from. There isn't a whole lot of surfing going on in Atlanta, GA.

 

 

Wow. She doesn't know where he is from yet?

 

Not trying to scare you, but I hope she carries some mace in her purse on her "surprise" date.

 

I don't think I would go on a "surprise" 3rd date with somone I met less than a month ago.

 

Have you read Protecting the Gift?

[Catwoman]

Wow. She doesn't know where he is from yet?

 

Not trying to scare you, but I hope she carries some mace in her purse on her "surprise" date.

 

I don't think I would go on a "surprise" 3rd date with somone I met less than a month ago.

 

Have you read Protecting the Gift?

 

I doubt there's anything to fear. The guy has worked in the same restaurant for the past 5 years, so it's not like he's some sort of weird drifter dude. Also, he knows she's close to her family, so if he was some nut looking for a victim, he would probably choose a woman who didn't have any family living in the area, and who had very few friends.

[FO4UR]

She should definitely probe into his religious beliefs. However, I would not assume that the church where he ministers is a complete reflection of him. It is somewhat, but really he has no power as a YP if the senior pastor does things he is not in agreement with...ask me how I know!?!

 

 

 

I have heard of missionary dating, but NEVER as something that you should do. It's always been a phrase used to discourage dating outside of your religious beliefs. I am :001_huh: on the posts on that issue...I believe it, but I just can't believe it. kwim.

 

 

 

 

I will say that if he is wanting to be a minister for the long-term that she needs to seriously evaluate if that lifestyle is right for her. It's not just the religious beliefs, but the actual spot of being the minister's wife. She can PM me if she wants the scoop.

 

 

His saying that he's thinking about getting another degree in counseling makes me think that maybe he doesn't want to be a *pastor* in the long-run, even if he works in a religious capacity.

 

 

I'd advise her to ask a few good questions and listen to what he's saying. A good vent about the bad things going on in his church will tell her everything she needs to know about that. Sometimes (often times!!!), it takes being on staff to see behind certain things...he may be growing into or out of his current church. Either way...let him talk talk talk about his religion/church. It really is crucial to know these things.

 

 

My final thought: If he's ready to settle down and marry, how is he going to support a wife and kids in his current lines of work? (Or is she supposed to support him?)

[Night Elf]

Wow. She doesn't know where he is from yet?

 

I'm surprised this surprises you. I can't see why this question would even come up. It's not something I ever ask people. He obviously doesn't know where she is from because they obviously didn't talk about it. Anyway, surely there are many things that haven't yet come up. They've only talked a few times and gotten together twice.

 

I haven't read the book you've mentioned but I have a feeling it's something religious. My dd20 has been dating for a while now. Going out alone with a boy isn't new. I do acknowledge your concern though. We don't do the whole courtship thing so it's not like I can send a chaperone with them. The concept is very odd indeed to be honest, especially as she is an adult now.

[Night Elf]

My final thought: If he's ready to settle down and marry, how is he going to support a wife and kids in his current lines of work? (Or is she supposed to support him?)

 

She has no idea what his financial status is. They didn't talk about that. I would imagine that if he was looking for someone to support him, he wouldn't choose a 20 yr. old who just graduated high school, is working as a server in a mexican restaurant, and lives with her mom. :tongue_smilie:

[Incognito]

Protecting the Gift is a book about protecting children from being abused/kidnapped. It's really more for kids and teens. I think it is a great book, but I don't think it really applies here. Unless the 20yo has a kid that the guy is trying to get to through her.

[OnTheBrink]

Late to the party (I read the thread at work, but didn't log in there), but my feelings are these:

 

1) I find it suspect that a man as seemingly devoted to his faith as he appears would seek a date or potential marriage partner outside that faith. The reason I find this suspect is that if his intention is to convert her, marry her, and carry her off into the sunset of being Mrs. Pastor Whomever, he seems to be barking up a difficult tree for all involved. Being a Mrs. Pastor Whomever is difficult on good days, and asking the kind of support and devotion a pastor's wife is often called upon to provide is a LOT to expect from a new convert. It just seems to be a risky move on his part, and a lot to ask of your daughter.

 

2) I am shocked his superiors (senior pastor, elders, etc) would approve of a youth pastor dating someone outside the faith. I come from a pretty conservative church (although, nothing close to a Gothard-esque congregation) and I know my pastor and elders would frown upon anyone dating outside the faith, especially someone already in the ministry. From what I've seen, it never ends well.

 

3) Lastly, this just seems like a wolf-in-sheep's-clothing sort of thing. I have known several guys who look great on paper, but were really complete phonies. They spoke out of both sides of their mouths and looked like great guys, but really only wanted ONE THING.

 

My advice would be really check out his church and what he believes, because regardless of what people say, they live what they actually believe.

 

And, if I were to describe my EX and his parents, I could make them look awesome. FIL was a pastor, very charismatic and had a strong following. MIL sang in the church and held a leadership role among the women, EX was devout and attended services regularly, was a great guy and had a lot of friends. But from that description, you wouldn't know that FIL is a pedophile and most likely a sociopath and was kicked out of the ministry. MIL is a narcissist, a racist, a bigot and has some emotionally incestuous leanings. EX is a sex addict, a narcissist, borderline personality and most likely a sociopath himself, not to mention the fact he's gay and neglected to run that little detail by me before we married. You'd not know any of that about these people until you REALLY got to know them; until the veil was lifted and you got to see what really went on behind closed doors.

 

So, my point is, be really careful. This guy could be a great guy and could be one who'd love your daughter and care for her and be the best husband ever. Or he could not. My gut is going with not, but I'll concede I'm a big jaded, given all I've been through with the IL's and EX.

 

Good luck!

[kalanamak]

Best. Typo. Ever. :lol::lol::lol:

 

(And if she wants to get hosed, she's going to have to find another guy. This fellow doesn't even kiss on dates... :tongue_smilie:)

 

What typo? Have you never seen riots where the police turn fire hoses on people?

[elegantlion]

Tell her to have fun, but more importantly, remind her that we want DETAILS! :D

 

Absolutely! -- Well not that she has to share, but...have fun.

 

Tell her we don't get out much.

 

 

 

OK, now he's starting to sound kind of cool and interesting. :thumbup:

 

...I agree, we don't get out much either.

 

I agree, there is more to the story. What kind of tattoos?:D

[Parrothead]

She laughed. She said her dating life has never been this interesting to other people

 

 

It is the only dating life most of us have. :D

[Joanne]

I read the first 10 pages.

 

I'm concerned. There is a constellation of issues - it is not *one* thing on the following list but the whole list that elevates this to "quite concerned" for me.

 

Predators (and I use this broadly, to include aggressive evangelists, abusive/power/control, sexual) are often charming, good looking, and in professions that put them in contact with a lot of people.

 

Here's my list of concerns:

 

 

1. The no kissing thing could be legalistic, cultish. It is *extra* Biblical at minimum.
   
2. 29, never married
   
3. 29, pursuing a 20 year old. I am not against an age range (both my marriages had one). But the season of life differential in the decade represented here is substantial. Again, it is all the issues, not ONE.
   
4. His job. I'd need to know more but the job(s) would = area in need of history.
   
5. The rush to meeting parents, and the accelerated pace of the relationship.
   
6. The above item, minus the typical physical affection is a concern.
   
7. All of these things AND he's an unmarried 29 year old youth pastor?
   
8. His knowing pursuit of a non born again.
   
9. The fact that she is a relationship chameleon and he's in serious pursuit.
   

 

 

However, I fully admit that I find some brands of conservative Christianity to be harmful. I personally find the "no kissing" thing to be icky and unnatural. I'm concerned that he seems "normal enough" that anything just over the line will be normalized and the beginning of the power/control cycle will initiate.

 

AGAIN, it's not necessary to defend individual items on this list (though I know it will happen anyway). It is not each item, but the presence of all of them.

[Starr]

He may just be glad to meet someone nice and fun that doesn't go to his church. It's not like they have to get married after the third date. She'll know soon enough if he's friend or boyfriend.

 

But now I'm reading Joanne's post. I usually agree with her. Maybe I didn't read enough...

Edited May 26, 2012 by Starr

[tristangrace]

I am really surprised at how many folks see yellow flags because he's 29 and never been married. (I was a month shy of my 29th birthday when I got married, so perhaps I'm taking it personally.:001_smile:)

 

But I just looked up stats, and the median age for a first marriage for men in the US was 28.2 in 2010. The dude's virtually average.

[ssavings]

I find it surprising that so many people are concerned that a 29 year old isn't married. Maybe it's a regional thing?

Most of DH's friends (who are all 28-30) are not married. None of them are creepy preditors (I'd trust all of them with watching my kids, no hesitation). And, now that I'm thinking about it, I can see a good number of them being more compatible with a 20 year old with a good head on her shoulders than a woman their own age.

 

About the religious differences.. if she was raised Catholic, baptised and confirmed, isn't it possible he sees her as a Christian? I'm Catholic, and a great percentage of the people I know who self-identify as a non-practicing Catholic would still consider themselves to be Christian/Catholic, just not practicing at the moment.

[OrganicAnn]

I don't think 29 and not married is anything, but I come from a family that marries late. Even my grandparents married at around 30, and my parents 30s, and my DH was 39 and never married when we married.

 

But some of the other things would give me pause. But I would try to make sure there was no pressure from any side (stepmom, you, the boy) to continue or stop the relationship. Then it can thrive or die on its own. I would make sure DD had other activities and social things especially now so that she will continue to meet and interact with others.

 

Does she have any good girlfriends. All it takes is one girlfriend to say "ewww" to kill a relationship.

[mommy5]

Is it just me or did the last update about the surprise date seem suspicious? I've gone from thinking this is just a nice guy to seeing several red flags (dating outside of his faith, salvation stats on website) and now this surprise place/date. I know this might seem weird but have you (OP) been able to verify any of these things: he actually works at the church he says he does and if he really has worked at this restaurant for 5 years? I guess I have been burned one too many times by liars to believe this because some things seem too good to be true and other things seem strange (to me) but might not seem strange to a younger girl.

[deacongirl]

I find it surprising that so many people are concerned that a 29 year old isn't married. Maybe it's a regional thing?

Most of DH's friends (who are all 28-30) are not married. None of them are creepy preditors (I'd trust all of them with watching my kids, no hesitation). And, now that I'm thinking about it, I can see a good number of them being more compatible with a 20 year old with a good head on her shoulders than a woman their own age.

 

About the religious differences.. if she was raised Catholic, baptised and confirmed, isn't it possible he sees her as a Christian? I'm Catholic, and a great percentage of the people I know who self-identify as a non-practicing Catholic would still consider themselves to be Christian/Catholic, just not practicing at the moment.

 

To me it isn't that he is 29 and hasn't been married, to me that is perfectly normal. It is that he is 29 and she is 20.

Edited to add: 20 and if I understand correctly, has not lived away from home. I think a 20 yr. old could have a good head on her shoulders but the lack of life experience, if she has not lived away from home, IMO, is significant. From my experience those 10 years are incredibly formative.

Edited May 26, 2012 by deacongirl

[KnitWit]

Late to the party (I read the thread at work, but didn't log in there), but my feelings are these:

 

1) I find it suspect that a man as seemingly devoted to his faith as he appears would seek a date or potential marriage partner outside that faith. The reason I find this suspect is that if his intention is to convert her, marry her, and carry her off into the sunset of being Mrs. Pastor Whomever, he seems to be barking up a difficult tree for all involved. Being a Mrs. Pastor Whomever is difficult on good days, and asking the kind of support and devotion a pastor's wife is often called upon to provide is a LOT to expect from a new convert. It just seems to be a risky move on his part, and a lot to ask of your daughter.

 

2) I am shocked his superiors (senior pastor, elders, etc) would approve of a youth pastor dating someone outside the faith. I come from a pretty conservative church (although, nothing close to a Gothard-esque congregation) and I know my pastor and elders would frown upon anyone dating outside the faith, especially someone already in the ministry. From what I've seen, it never ends well.

 

3) Lastly, this just seems like a wolf-in-sheep's-clothing sort of thing. I have known several guys who look great on paper, but were really complete phonies. They spoke out of both sides of their mouths and looked like great guys, but really only wanted ONE THING.

 

My advice would be really check out his church and what he believes, because regardless of what people say, they live what they actually believe.

 

And, if I were to describe my EX and his parents, I could make them look awesome. FIL was a pastor, very charismatic and had a strong following. MIL sang in the church and held a leadership role among the women, EX was devout and attended services regularly, was a great guy and had a lot of friends. But from that description, you wouldn't know that FIL is a pedophile and most likely a sociopath and was kicked out of the ministry. MIL is a narcissist, a racist, a bigot and has some emotionally incestuous leanings. EX is a sex addict, a narcissist, borderline personality and most likely a sociopath himself, not to mention the fact he's gay and neglected to run that little detail by me before we married. You'd not know any of that about these people until you REALLY got to know them; until the veil was lifted and you got to see what really went on behind closed doors.

 

I hope your former FIL is sitting in prison if he's a pedophile.

 

OP, it sounds like you and your dd are pretty smart. If she's following this thread, she has some good things to tune her radar to. I think with ANYONE we have to teach our kids to be aware of signs that they are someone's *project*. That can happen in same sex friendships as well as dating relationships. It happens as ADULTS...so now is a good time for her to learn to recognize it.

 

Hopefully, all is well and he's a really great guy. :)

[happyhomemaker25]

From my experience {I went to a church as a teen that endorsed this idea}, Missionary dating is dating for the sole purpose of converting the person you are dating {and often their family too} to a particular church or branch of Christianity. Normally within a month or two of converting the person they were dating, the relationship would fizzle and the person doing the missionary dating would move on to a new prospective convert.

 

I can't even imagine this! Every church I have ever been to discourages missionary dating. I grew up in the Southern Baptist church and in the past year started attending a Reformed non-denominational church. We have always encouraged our kids and I was always encouraged as a teen to not date unbelievers. I've seen way to many friends be forced to choose between future spouses and their faith and it always breaks my heart. Missionary dating rarely works and often leads to even more heartbreak.

OP, I would wonder what he is thinking. If his faith is so strong that he is trying to hold off on even kissing til marriage I would think he falls into the don't be unequally yoked crowd. Maybe he is looking for more of a friendship that could develop farther IF she decided to follow his faith. I would be worried that maybe they are on two different pages here. From what you've told us of this young man I would say he is not going to get seriously involved with her if she does not follow his faith. If his calling is to ministry his wife will have to be a believer in churches that I think he might be involved in. I would suggest your dear girl tread carefully here. I would hate to see her get hurt over this.