S/O 1 income thread- In your area, would 1 blue collar job support a family modestly?

[Lizzie in Ma]

We live in a pretty expensive area, but it's home and all my family is here.

My dh is a handyman and makes under $40,000 a year.

We have 2 old vehicles with no payments on them.

We live frugally. The kids have everything they need but dh and I go without things like new clothes for years at a time. We might go out to a movie as a family once every few months and order out pizza maybe once a month.

We had some bad debt and a payment on it almost the size of our mortgage but there is only 7 months left on a 5 year plan so we are really looking forward to having that burden lifted.

More often than not he works 6 days a week, we have promised each other that he will take Saturdays off from now on once that debt is gone.

My Mom has an educational fund, very modest, that helps with school items, she set it up last year bless her heart.

We committed to this lifestyle when we began homeschooling 11 years ago and don't regret it for a second.

[Kim in Appalachia]

It would support them modestly. But most people I know who have "blue collar" jobs are 2 income families. They could do it on one, but want more (I don't mean greedy, but things like being about to put their kid through college).

[FaithManor]

There was a time when my answer would have been yes. However, most of the good blue collar jobs are gone. Most of what is left is part-time, no benefits and $10.00 per hour or less.

 

So if a parent could get two of these part-time jobs and earn $400.00 A week, assuming the government will keep $200.00 in withholding for state, federal, medicaid, social security, that's a take home if lucky of $1400.00 per month.

 

Family of four can expect to pay:

 

$500.00 a month to rent for a modest, not in good shape house with garbage. All utilities paid by rentee.

 

$140.00 in electric...it's pretty rare from Sept. - April to have a bill less than that.

 

$25.00 renter's insurance if they don't have much...required by all landlords I know.

 

Heat - $350.00 per month minimum and up to $500.00 per month since most of these places are on fuel oil.

 

Car insurance on one clunker p.l.p.d. and comprehensive only, no collision - $100.00 per month if no tickets, no prior claims - Michigan is an expensive insurance state. Many people can't even get it for that and pay around $125.00 for one car without collision.

 

$10.00 a month per child on state health insurance. No coverage for the worker or spouse since they'd be above the income limit. = $20.00

 

1 Cell phone - minimum plan for a phone that actually works out here in the sticks is $53.00. Landlines cost this much as well.

 

If internet is required for receiving messages from work, $69.00. Yep, it's expensive and it's not fast, fiber optic cable...wireless from a line of sight tower 8 miles away so it can be very slow.

 

That's over $1200.00 and the family hasn't eaten yet or had to buy any kind of clothing, school supplies, or put gas in the vehicle to get to work. I don't think $200.00 will cover that though I suppose if the family only at one box of macaroni and cheese per meal, and one can of tuna per day, plus some rice and potatoes, and if they could live in the same town as the job, and the kids didn't have a school supply list, and all of the clothes could be purchased at the one resale store in the county, then I guess maybe. Not healthy that's for certain.

 

Faith

[lcelmer]

the family would need to live very modestly (i.e. little to no eating out, no major vacations, shop at Goodwill when possible, small home/lot.)

 

LOL! Hmmm... I guess we live VERY modestly... :-) I had no idea!

 

What is "living modestly?'

 

This is a really hard thing to answer without numbers. I will say that our income fits the above criteria. We couldn't afford to live where we would prefer to. We live in a "unsafe" neighborhood, abut 20-45 minutes from the area we would prefer to live in, our big family vacation from a couple years ago was a 3 day trip to the 4 hours away beach where we camped. (we had steak! Luxury!)

 

It feels to me that we are doing really well right now. We don't have to go to gleaners for food, and we can afford the occasional Dr. Visit.

 

 

I have no complaints though. (well, I do complain, but I am happy with the choices we made) :D I am so thankful to be able to stay home with my blessings.

 

If the questions is can they get by, I would say most likely. (here in the upper west coast) But if "living modestly" includes savings, a nice vacation, college for kids, and a "safe" neighborhood, then usually no.

[lcelmer]

Dh is blue collar, non-unionized and I believe we live very well. We have a nice, but modest home. Paid off vehicles that run well (and dh fixes if they don't) and eat well. Soon we will have the house paid off and be completely debt free. We have everything we need and a lot of wants as well. We shop used, don't have fancy cellphones, cable etc and I pinch those pennies until they scream but we are really, really blessed. Dh has been at his job nearly 18 yrs as well so he as at the top of the pay range for his job and made nearly 3x my last salary with a BSW. We had considered him going back to school but there are few jobs we could even think of where he would be guaranteed to make more in this area. Now, the company is not doing so well and there is a chance the place could close down. Thus we are paying off the house this year and looking even further on what to do to reduce costs so if he ends up starting over or having to go back to school we will need very little income to survive.

 

 

Does that mean you live on 2 blue collar incomes?

[FaithManor]

If someone is making $30k with children, they will receive several government benefits that will help toward making their income livable (Earned Income Tax Credit, Food Stamps, WIC, possibly Medicaid for the kids).

 

Around here a 3 bedroom apartment is $900/month (assuming two children of different sexes). That alone would take $11,000 of their gross income per year - that does not include any money taken out for taxes (b/c even if they don't pay income tax, they do pay SSI, etc...). That doesn't include any utilities, medical care, cars, etc...

 

The other issue with such a low income is that they likely do NOT have a 'savings margin' to help with emergency issues (saving up for first/last deposit when you move, saving up for a replacement vehicle, paying for unexpected medical expenses or dental expenses, etc...). That equals going into debt when things come up, and low income workers are the least likely to be able to dig out of debt.

 

I do know people who were 'blue collar' who raised a family on a single income - but they were unionized with several decades of experience to the point that they made over $60,000/year.

 

I think you want to clarify whether you mean "Skilled Blue Collar" or "Unskilled Worker". An electrician is considered 'blue collar' and can make a very livable wage. A school bus driver who makes $14/hour is not going to be able to support a family very easily.

 

I agree. I based my other post on unskilled labor, though in reality right now, the job market is so bad that many skilled tradesmen have gone out of business and electrical journeymen, contractors, plumbers, etc. can't get work...so the only thing currently available IF it comes available in our area is unskilled, blue collar labor. The good stuff with the car companies and those industries that supported the car companies is pretty well gone and DOW Chemical in Midland has pretty much eliminated the good jobs someone could have at one time gotten without a degree. So many degreed people are out of work, that they can get them for far less pay. So blue collar, as it once was in this state, doesn't really apply and it's hard to find a job where one can work up the promotion chain anymore. Therefore, I went with the reality of an undegreed person in our area because even if that worker was highly skilled, he/she would still not be likely to land a job for more than $10.00 an hour.

 

Faith

[LostSurprise]

Other.

 

"Blue Collar" is a very general term which describes a wide range of skilled and unskilled workers.

 

Dh comes from a blue collar background. His father was an electrician for a processing plant and his mother stayed home.

 

My father was lower white collar (the only one in his entire family) and generally made the same amount as my FIL even with a college degree. My mother stayed home until he lost his job.

 

My sister married a machine operator in a factory and she understood that to stay home she would need to work at home, so she prepared for that.

 

Many of my father's siblings work in factories, they range from well off to struggling. Many of them have wives who stay home for one reason or another.

 

In the upper Midwest its possible. I've known people get by on less than $30,000/year. $50,000 is considered comfortable in many small to medium towns.

 

Now do people want to do that? Most do not. Its not comfortable. Its not the American Dream. To better what your parents had and equal what your neighbors have most people need two wage earners.

 

Another thing entirely is the class of people staffing our minimum wage jobs. Couples with 4 jobs between them and the kids raised on McDonald's drive through and what the state funded daycare feeds them.

 

But that's another thread.

[momma2three]

I agree. I based my other post on unskilled labor, though in reality right now, the job market is so bad that many skilled tradesmen have gone out of business and electrical journeymen, contractors, plumbers, etc. can't get work...so the only thing currently available IF it comes available in our area is unskilled, blue collar labor. The good stuff with the car companies and those industries that supported the car companies is pretty well gone and DOW Chemical in Midland has pretty much eliminated the good jobs someone could have at one time gotten without a degree. So many degreed people are out of work, that they can get them for far less pay. So blue collar, as it once was in this state, doesn't really apply and it's hard to find a job where one can work up the promotion chain anymore. Therefore, I went with the reality of an undegreed person in our area because even if that worker was highly skilled, he/she would still not be likely to land a job for more than $10.00 an hour.

 

Faith

 

But, wait, according to other posters, if you don't like your job and aren't paid enough to live on you can just go and get another one, right? Right? That's how it works, I've been assured!

 

I mean, just because the official unemployment rate in the US is about 10%, and the real unemployment numbers (including underemployed and people who have been unemployed longer than 6 months) is more like 25%, if you're not making it, it's just because you're lazy. My cousin's grandfather's neighbor was unemployed for a brief period in the 1950s, but he pulled up his bootstraps and went and got another job. And lived an extremely happy life even though he and his family could never afford food, clothing, water, a roof (they loved those four walls, and it saved them money because they didn't need windows!), or pencils again. What is the American Dream, after all, if not barely eking by in a state of perpetual financial panic unable to afford anything that could possibly be considered "an extra" or "nice"?

 

(sorry for the sarcasm. I guess this subject is making me angry.)

[mommaduck]

But, wait, according to other posters, if you don't like your job and aren't paid enough to live on you can just go and get another one, right? Right? That's how it works, I've been assured!

 

 

 

(sorry for the sarcasm. I guess this subject is making me angry.)

:iagree: Honestly, the way some people talk, you almost wish they could walk a mile in another person's shoes. Though I wouldn't wish ill on anyone, it would be a learning experience.

[Thea]

Depends on the blue collar job. My dh makes more at his blue collar job than most of my acquaintance's dhs do working in an office.

 

We live well --squarely in the middle/upper middle class.

[BrookValley.]

Depends on the definition of modest, of course, but if we're talking about one income making between $10 and $14 per hour and assume modest only means the very basics--food, shelter, and clothing--nope. No way.

 

The cheapest apartments in our area go for $700+. This might include cable, but it's not going to include utilities. This is for a one-room efficiency apartment. Anything more goes for $1,000+. I can't imagine making it on one small income. Not to mention what you do if the blue-collar job doesn't come with benefits and a member of the family has a medical emergency, or the car you depend on to make it said blue-collar job quits (public transportation is pretty much non-existent here), or, or....

[elegantlion]

If someone is making $30k with children, they will receive several government benefits that will help toward making their income livable (Earned Income Tax Credit, Food Stamps, WIC, possibly Medicaid for the kids).

 

Around here a 3 bedroom apartment is $900/month (assuming two children of different sexes). That alone would take $11,000 of their gross income per year - that does not include any money taken out for taxes (b/c even if they don't pay income tax, they do pay SSI, etc...). That doesn't include any utilities, medical care, cars, etc...

 

 

I do know people who were 'blue collar' who raised a family on a single income - but they were unionized with several decades of experience to the point that they made over $60,000/year.

 

I think you want to clarify whether you mean "Skilled Blue Collar" or "Unskilled Worker". An electrician is considered 'blue collar' and can make a very livable wage. A school bus driver who makes $14/hour is not going to be able to support a family very easily.

 

30k with one child does not qualify you for any aid in our area. My dh is a skilled blue collar worker, currently not working in the industry. He CAN make good money when the jobs are there. His current job is all he could get in our area. The pay is a joke, but it beats zero.

 

In our area a blue collar worker can support a family of 4, when the jobs are here. Our COL is low, housing can be found very affordable.

[Dmmetler]

Yes, if by modestly you mean a cheap house/rental (you can buy a house for 50K or so here in a Ok, but not great, neighborhood), one car, and not having many luxuries. We've figured out that we could make it on what I could make as a teacher here, with our current house, if we cut back expenses, if we had to, and we've got higher housing costs and taxes because we live in the suburbs.

Edited April 11, 2012 by dmmetler

[MistyMountain]

I live in Alaska. I am assuming you mean a blue collar income. You cannot get by here on a small income. I had a 2 bedroom condo that we brought 7 years ago and the mortgage was expensive for that. We just sold and had to find a rental and it was hard to find anything in our price range that accepted a dog and a cat. We weren't even looking for big places and we didn't need a nice neighborhood we just wanted one that wasn't a crime spot. The rents were 1400-1600 for a 3 bedroom townhouse type of condo. Some were even higher than that. If it was lower it was in a bad neighborhood. Housing is pretty expensive and everything else is expensive too. We have what should be a decent income but it is hard to get by with it in this area. A family could not get by on 30,000 without needing assistance and even with assistance it would be hard. I was hoping we would be leaving here for somewhere with a more reasonable cost of living but dh just got another job so we are here for now. I get jealous when I look at what we can get in other areas by looking at trulia.

Edited April 11, 2012 by MistyMountain

[Wendi]

Depends what you mean by "modest". Service workers make about half the median income for the area, so they wouldn't be able to afford the median rent. With income tax credits, and renting at half the median, it's doable, but it would definitely be tight. If you don't have debt, and know how to live frugally, sure. But a medical catastrophe can easily bankrupt such a family.

 

Wendi

[mytwomonkeys]

depending on their debt to income ratio, yes, i think they could live on one income (assuming they make what i consider blue collar wages).

[justamouse]

But, wait, according to other posters, if you don't like your job and aren't paid enough to live on you can just go and get another one, right? Right? That's how it works, I've been assured!

 

I mean, just because the official unemployment rate in the US is about 10%, and the real unemployment numbers (including underemployed and people who have been unemployed longer than 6 months) is more like 25%, if you're not making it, it's just because you're lazy. My cousin's grandfather's neighbor was unemployed for a brief period in the 1950s, but he pulled up his bootstraps and went and got another job. And lived an extremely happy life even though he and his family could never afford food, clothing, water, a roof (they loved those four walls, and it saved them money because they didn't need windows!), or pencils again. What is the American Dream, after all, if not barely eking by in a state of perpetual financial panic unable to afford anything that could possibly be considered "an extra" or "nice"?

 

(sorry for the sarcasm. I guess this subject is making me angry.)

I have a dear, dear friend who puts up skyscrapers in Manhattan. He's THE head builder/supervisor, all of that.

 

There are NO jobs. We sat at the table this Easter and he was telling us stories that he is seeing that would make your hair curl. There are no jobs. His company has finish work, but they're not building anything new.

 

As for the bolded, yup, that's what we see.

[Sukale]

Blue collar workers make up all of my family and 90% of the people I know. My dad and uncles all worked at the chemical plant in WV. I know one of them was a high school drop out. My mom and my aunts all stayed at home. My brother is a logger and supports his family just fine. My husband was a welder when we lived and WV and he supported us. Things like retirement accounts, emergency savings, and college funds were unheard of though. Most families had a beat up work truck then a more dependable family car. A lot of things just waited until the tax refund check came, like new tires or getting the furnace fixed or even paying on a hospital bill.

[Momma2Many66]

We live in a small blue collar working town and I vote yes if the couple is very careful with money and thrifty in what they purchase with their money.

 

Both my adult daughter and I are married to blue collar working men, neither of our families recieve any outside help or goverment assistance. She has one baby 9 months and is currently trying to concieve another baby. She was raised with only her father working and me staying at home and homeschooling. So I taught her early how to keep a house on a simple budget, how to shop second hand stores for clothing and household goods and how to stretch a dollar until it breaks.

 

She recently just bought a house 3 blocks from our farm in our little town ( we live right outside of town) and she paid $ 82,000 for a 4 bedroom 2 bath brick row home in a nice working class neighborhood. The kitchen was redone and the bathrooms are all nice and modern. There is very nice hardwood floors and woodwork throughout the 3 floors of the home. Most of the homes in the neighborhood sell for similiar prices, so cost of living is quite low in our area.

 

In our area most of the young families are living on just one paycheck and making do pretty well if they are careful with their budget. Her couple friends that have children all have stay at home moms and blue collar husbands. Most of those young moms breastfeed, cloth diaper and shop thrift stores for bargains. These families for the most part all live within their means.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Modest? No. But it *is* possible to LIVE as we have proven most of the past almost 20 years (Goodness, I'm getting old! LOL). It is a choice. It is worth it to me to raise my kids so we live differently than had I worked full time. I have worked part time at times to help out.

 

Honestly, the reason we live like we do now is the fostercare stipend (and later the adoption subsidy). It allows us a big enough house, enough food, a big enough vehicle, sports, etc. Of course, if we didn't have the kids, we wouldn't NEED any of those things anyway. I don't feel bad at all using that money to provide a better life for the kids.

[FaithManor]

But, wait, according to other posters, if you don't like your job and aren't paid enough to live on you can just go and get another one, right? Right? That's how it works, I've been assured!

 

I mean, just because the official unemployment rate in the US is about 10%, and the real unemployment numbers (including underemployed and people who have been unemployed longer than 6 months) is more like 25%, if you're not making it, it's just because you're lazy. My cousin's grandfather's neighbor was unemployed for a brief period in the 1950s, but he pulled up his bootstraps and went and got another job. And lived an extremely happy life even though he and his family could never afford food, clothing, water, a roof (they loved those four walls, and it saved them money because they didn't need windows!), or pencils again. What is the American Dream, after all, if not barely eking by in a state of perpetual financial panic unable to afford anything that could possibly be considered "an extra" or "nice"?

 

(sorry for the sarcasm. I guess this subject is making me angry.)

 

I'm sorry if what I wrote offended you. I answered the question honestly for the economic environment of the area. I did not draw any conclusions or state any opinions - just the bare facts.

 

The job market stinks and that's an understatement and also a statement of fact. I feel for everyone who is impacted by it. But, I just tried to answer the question.

 

Faith

[regentrude]

Yes. Rural Missouri. Low cost of living.

 

The term "blue collar worker" is not well defined. A unionized auto worker would be blue collar -as would be an unskilled house cleaner. The owner of a construction company is blue collar. As is his unskilled helper.

Edited April 11, 2012 by regentrude

[NASDAQ]

In Vancouver proper? No way. The housing would kill you.

 

In the burbs, sure, if you went out far enough. I'm sure there's somewhere.

[Tarreymere]

Yes, one blue collar job can certainly support a family around here. What do you consider blue collar? Plumbers, electricians, ect are blue collar and do well anywhere. Around here we have a lot of tool and die shops that hire kids right out of high school (that took tool and die in vo-tech) with good jobs and expect no experience. There are a couple tool and die, cnc, and other type schools that train people in a matter of months for other manufacturing jobs. These jobs seem to meet the general WTM board requirements for a 'comfortable' lifestyle ie two cars, dishwasher, cable tv, cell phone, Ipod, video game system, ect.

 

If you think working fast food or at a discount store will support a family of four on one income, then that family would have to be really, really frugal and most people I know in that situation would refuse to make the lifestyle changes and expectation changes needed to live at that level (share one bedroom apartment, no dishwasher, no car, no cell, cook from scratch, hand-me-downs, thrift shopping, ect). They choose to live on assistance.

[momma2three]

I'm sorry if what I wrote offended you. I answered the question honestly for the economic environment of the area. I did not draw any conclusions or state any opinions - just the bare facts.

 

The job market stinks and that's an understatement and also a statement of fact. I feel for everyone who is impacted by it. But, I just tried to answer the question.

 

Faith

 

Sorry, I wasn't meaning to pick on you. I was agreeing with your post, and then going off on a little rant of my own... and I think it was actually mostly based on another thread going on here right now. LOL, sometimes it's hard for me to keep everything straight.

[Annie]

In my area? Yes, I think so. I know several families who are making it on one blue collar income. They aren't taking expensive vacations or driving new cars, and I obviously don't know the details of their budgets, but they seem to have some wiggle room for a few "extras." Some of them own homes, and many of the renters are still quite early in their marriages/families.

 

You can rent a 2br/1.5bath apartment in a very well maintained, safe complex with a pool, tennis, and playgrounds for around $675. Cheaper retals (which are still safe but not as nice) are certainly around if you look. You can find 3br homes in safe, but not terribly beautiful, neighborhoods for under $100,000.

[angela in ohio]

Absolutely, we know many people doing it with more kiddos and more than a modest living. This is the land of auto factories, and the cost of living is relatively low.

[Jen in PA]

Definitely doable here. It wouldn't be possible for a person starting out at minimum wage at Walmart or a fast food place, but the better paying blue collar work, especially for a couple who didn't start a family until they were up the pay scale a bit, would be fine. Drive 50 miles north (Pittsburgh), and I think it would be much more difficult.

[Meriwether]

But, wait, according to other posters, if you don't like your job and aren't paid enough to live on you can just go and get another one, right? Right? That's how it works, I've been assured!

 

I mean, just because the official unemployment rate in the US is about 10%, and the real unemployment numbers (including underemployed and people who have been unemployed longer than 6 months) is more like 25%, if you're not making it, it's just because you're lazy. My cousin's grandfather's neighbor was unemployed for a brief period in the 1950s, but he pulled up his bootstraps and went and got another job. And lived an extremely happy life even though he and his family could never afford food, clothing, water, a roof (they loved those four walls, and it saved them money because they didn't need windows!), or pencils again. What is the American Dream, after all, if not barely eking by in a state of perpetual financial panic unable to afford anything that could possibly be considered "an extra" or "nice"?

 

(sorry for the sarcasm. I guess this subject is making me angry.)

 

Life is about choices. I'm sorry if you feel trapped by your circumstances right now. I read the thread that is bothering you. People were talking about their own experiences. My dad bought a small farm when I was a kid. We were cash poor. Very cash poor. Dad built our home. To save on rent we lived in an unfinished basement for several months. Mom used the top of a woodburning stove and an electric skillet to cook with. We had only cold water and it came from one spicket above the sump pump. We moved into the bedrooms after a few months but it was a year? more? until they could put flooring in my brother's room. It took several years to put trim in. They didn't get air conditioning until we went to college. Mom designed and marketed an afghan for our town so that we could put a staircase in. We'd had steps made from 2x4's for five years. We did have a roof on our home.;) Many people who talk about making hard choices have seen the lean side of life.

[Meriwether]

Yes, blue collar workers could do fairly well here. We live in an area where most people pay under 80,000 for a home.

[momma2three]

Life is about choices. I'm sorry if you feel trapped by your circumstances right now. I read the thread that is bothering you. People were talking about their own experiences. My dad bought a small farm when I was a kid. We were cash poor. Very cash poor. Dad built our home. To save on rent we lived in an unfinished basement for several months. Mom used the top of a woodburning stove and an electric skillet to cook with. We had only cold water and it came from one spicket above the sump pump. We moved into the bedrooms after a few months but it was a year? more? until they could put flooring in my brother's room. It took several years to put trim in. They didn't get air conditioning until we went to college. Mom designed and marketed an afghan for our town so that we could put a staircase in. We'd had steps made from 2x4's for five years. We did have a roof on our home.;) Many people who talk about making hard choices have seen the lean side of life.

 

It's interesting that you automatically assume that I'm taking these threads personally. I'd say we're probably doing better than most people on this board, actually... certainly than most people in the US (not a brag, just going by the numbers). No, my "choices" are fine, thanks... especially since I apparently chose to be born to educated UMC parents.

 

But that doesn't mean this discussion is any less sad to me. Maybe this makes me some sort of outlier, but I think kids in the richest country on earth are entitled (yes, entitled) to clean running water. What you consider to be a "choice," I don't really see as one. The US has one of the lowest social and economic mobility rates of any developed country (there have been several studies about this over the past decade, here's one: http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2006/04/b1579981.html). Where you're born is pretty much where you're going to stay. Sadly, there really are very few choices most people can reasonably make.

[DawnM]

Well, I did say that this would be somewhere in the greater Charlotte area....I didn't say it would be a safe or nice area, but there are cheap areas around. I wouldn't necessarily choose to live there, but it can be done.

 

Apartments in somewhat decent areas start around $700-$800 for a small two bedroom.

 

Dawn

 

 

 

Wow! I know this is your area, but ours is nowhere near that reasonable. Apartments around here are either Section 8 or they run (for a 2 bedroom) starting at $700/mo (for the smaller apartment complex. the larger apartment complex, though, starts at $900/mo) plus utilities and stuff, obviously. But you get free use of their clubhouse. :rolleyes: We have two colleges in/close to town and it drives the rent up. That's the problem with renting houses here, too... the rental companies (very few individual landlords here) all determine their rent based on the number of bedrooms and there being that many different people paying. A 3 bedroom house is easily $1500/mo to rent here. It's crazy.

 

Sorry, that turned out to be a really long reply. :blush: I'm talkative this evening, I guess. :)

[Ellie]

In Central Texas, yes.

 

And actually, we were able to make it in Silicon Valley, too.

[DawnM]

The question was, "Can they support a family modestly?"

 

If you make sure you live on a bus line, you don't need a car. Medical may or may not be covered by Medicaid but I didn't factor that in because the question was about living modestly. Medical insurance is one of those things that is a "maybe you get it at work, maybe you don't" so I didn't factor in a huge cost there as well. Obviously that will not work if the worker needs to pay for that.

 

No there may not be savings, but that also was not asked in the question. I factored in basic living expenses only.

 

So, no, one couldn't take care of a family if they needed medical insurance paid OOP, needed a car with insurance, and needed a 3 bedroom, although even there, you could argue that a 3 bedroom is desired but not a necessity.

 

I know a mom who is making it by working retail. She has a 600 sq. ft. two bedroom. She shares a bedroom with her daughter or sleeps on the sofa. She gets food stamps and medicaid. They are surviving. It isn't fun, but they are getting by.

 

Dawn

 

 

 

If someone is making $30k with children, they will receive several government benefits that will help toward making their income livable (Earned Income Tax Credit, Food Stamps, WIC, possibly Medicaid for the kids).

 

Around here a 3 bedroom apartment is $900/month (assuming two children of different sexes). That alone would take $11,000 of their gross income per year - that does not include any money taken out for taxes (b/c even if they don't pay income tax, they do pay SSI, etc...). That doesn't include any utilities, medical care, cars, etc...

 

The other issue with such a low income is that they likely do NOT have a 'savings margin' to help with emergency issues (saving up for first/last deposit when you move, saving up for a replacement vehicle, paying for unexpected medical expenses or dental expenses, etc...). That equals going into debt when things come up, and low income workers are the least likely to be able to dig out of debt.

 

I do know people who were 'blue collar' who raised a family on a single income - but they were unionized with several decades of experience to the point that they made over $60,000/year.

 

I think you want to clarify whether you mean "Skilled Blue Collar" or "Unskilled Worker". An electrician is considered 'blue collar' and can make a very livable wage. A school bus driver who makes $14/hour is not going to be able to support a family very easily.

[StaceyinLA]

The cost of living in Louisiana is pretty low. My husband had a blue collar job for years as an electrician before his last 4-5 years of advancement in the business. We have lived on one income, and I would say quite a bit more than modestly.

 

I'd say a lot of blue collar jobs here pay (with some experience) in the neighborhood of $20/hr (give or take depending on the type of job and, again, experience level). One can find decent housing in the $80,000 - 100,000 range in many areas around us. They'd be older, smaller homes, but they are out there. With rates the way they are, a house note could be $500-600 (or less). If a family didn't have much debt, they could probably live on the better end of modest.

[jubilation]

I voted 'other'. It depends on your definition of modest, and on your definition of blue-collar. Around here, housing is fairly cheap, and it is definitely possible to live on $30k a year, but only if there is no debt, the family is frugal, and nothing ever goes majorly wrong such as an unexpected large medical bill or cut in hours.

 

It also depends a lot on what kind of benefits the job offers. A unionized job with great bennies, sure. A small business job with no health insurance and unstable hours, not so much.

 

My family did live on $30k gross a year for several years, and we didn't starve. However, in our situation, eventually I decided that the stress of never knowing when our health insurance would randomly disappear (as sometimes happened with no warning from DH's boss), and never knowing when my DH would be cut to 20 hours a week for 2 months straight, was more than the stress of working opposite shifts. Now I work PT and make just enough to cover groceries and carry the health insurance, and it is so much less stress than before. We still don't take vacations, drive new cars, or eat out, but we manage and can even afford some small extras now.

Edited April 11, 2012 by jubilation

[Meriwether]

It's interesting that you automatically assume that I'm taking these threads personally. I'd say we're probably doing better than most people on this board, actually... certainly than most people in the US (not a brag, just going by the numbers). No, my "choices" are fine, thanks... especially since I apparently chose to be born to educated UMC parents.

 

But that doesn't mean this discussion is any less sad to me. Maybe this makes me some sort of outlier, but I think kids in the richest country on earth are entitled (yes, entitled) to clean running water. What you consider to be a "choice," I don't really see as one. The US has one of the lowest social and economic mobility rates of any developed country (there have been several studies about this over the past decade, here's one: http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2006/04/b1579981.html). Where you're born is pretty much where you're going to stay. Sadly, there really are very few choices most people can reasonably make.

 

I assumed you were taking it personally because you were getting angry (by your own admission) and wrote a very sarcastic post. I disagree that there are few choices that people can reasonably make. Or maybe I just disagree about what is reasonable.

[momma2three]

I assumed you were taking it personally because you were getting angry (by your own admission) and wrote a very sarcastic post. I disagree that there are few choices that people can reasonably make. Or maybe I just disagree about what is reasonable.

 

Injustice makes me angry whether I'm the one on the short end of the stick or on the long end. I actually fall somewhere along the long end of this stick, as do many of the people who are arguing the loudest about economic injustice in the US. Assuming that because someone cares about this issue, they must be resentful and it's their own fault for making "poor choices" is completely off base.

 

And, actually, it has been studied and written extensively about in a range of journals, articles, and books. There are very few choices most people can make to drastically change their economic situation.

 

But I agree that we disagree on several issues, including what is reasonable. I think that it is reasonable to expect children in the richest country in the world to have access to health care, let alone floorboards and running water. It's not like they had a "choice."

[StaceyinLA]

after reading the entire thread, that it seems Louisiana isn't experiencing what a lot of other states are. Our unemployment rates, though I have no clue what they really are, don't seem to be as low as other places. I know of no one who is unwillingly unemployed. I believe a lot of it has to do with all of the growth and rebuilding since the hurricanes.

 

Ds' company is flourishing. They have never had more work. They do commercial computerized control systems in new construction and remodels. They are doing schools, the airport, colleges, churches, mall additions, plants, you name it. We have tons going on in Louisiana.

 

Heck, my 19yodd started a job as a dental assistant (she was NOT trained - they trained her on the job) making $10/hr. She had ZERO experience.

 

My son works at a fast-food chain called Raising Cane's (it was started here in LA and only does chicken strips). He is making, at 16yo, 8.50/hr working for a company that will help their employees go to college.

 

Oldest dd makes $12/hr working at a clothing boutique in a small town near us. She's about to start managing one location, and will be put on a higher salary. I realize a family can't live on that, but it's decent money for that kind of job. Her fiancé makes almost $100K/yr (at 25yo) working at the Exxon plant (blue collar job) - work won't be in her future once they are married with children anyway.

 

20yodd is a sahm. Her husband is in the Navy. They are pretty comfortable, and if they continue making good decisions, they can stay comfortable, even with her at home.

 

Ok, I got a bit sidetracked, but all that is to say Louisiana might be a place to consider if looking to make a move!

[Crimson Wife]

There are very few choices most people can make to drastically change their economic situation.

 

Untrue. The chance that a child will be born into a family that falls below the poverty line is 80% if 3 criteria are met: mom is a high school dropout, mom is unmarried, and mom is a teenager. If NONE of those criteria are met, the chance is only 8%. All 3 of those things are within the control of the individual (even if the teen winds up pregnant as the result of contraceptive failure, it's still her choice not to give the baby up for adoption).

 

Will making good life decisions guarantee financial stability? Sadly not. But making poor decisions almost always leads to financial difficulties.

[Sneezyone]

Untrue. The chance that a child will be born into a family that falls below the poverty line is 80% if 3 criteria are met: mom is a high school dropout, mom is unmarried, and mom is a teenager. If NONE of those criteria are met, the chance is only 8%. All 3 of those things are within the control of the individual (even if the teen winds up pregnant as the result of contraceptive failure, it's still her choice not to give the baby up for adoption).

 

Will making good life decisions guarantee financial stability? Sadly not. But making poor decisions almost always leads to financial difficulties.

 

I'm sorry if this comes off the wrong way but are you suggesting that we tolerate/accept the fact that becoming a parent at 11, 13, 16, 18 yrs old dooms you and your offspring to a life of poverty? Or that we should encourage unmarried 11, 13, 16 or 18 yr. old girls and women to become handmaidens for the childless when we know that relinquishing a child is not without consequence for mother, child or adoptive family? Are you suggesting that conception (or contraception for that matter) is always within the control of the girl or woman, always a choice? Because those seem like awfully big leaps to make. It also seems to totally discount the stories of many of those here (and the stats available to anyone with 'the google' regarding the difficulty of achieving upward mobility over the last 20-30 years even for two-parent families).

 

Some in this thread have compared what their parents or grandparents achieved during the post-depression and post-WWII eras with today. I'm not sure the two are even remotely related. Back then, people believed that there was such a thing as the public good and public works projects were valued. Tax rates were far higher than today. People believed in conserving natural resources and created national parks. They bought war bonds and rationed goods in a collective effort to achieve something that individuals alone could not. Dare I say it was almost communal as people struggled to make do and get by until the economy improved and the war was won? These days it's every man, woman, child and teen for him/herself--very gilded age. "Shared sacrifice" might as well be an epithet. This whole discussion just makes me sad. Before you know it we'll be sending babes into coal mines again. If your family can't afford not to, it's your fault right?

Edited April 11, 2012 by Sneezyone
Left out the bolded...it's late...

[Crimson Wife]

I'm sorry if this comes off the wrong way but are you suggesting that we tolerate/accept the fact that becoming a parent at 11, 13, 16, 18 yrs old dooms you and your offspring to a life of poverty? Or that we should encourage unmarried 11, 13, 16 or 18 yr. old girls and women to become handmaidens for the childless when we know that relinquishing a child is not without consequence for mother, child or adoptive family? Are you suggesting that conception (or contraception for that matter) is always within the control of the girl or woman, always a choice? Because those seem like awfully big leaps to make.

 

Unless she's a rape victim, she made the choice to have sex and the choice whether or not to use contraception when having sex. And regardless of the circumstances of the baby's conception, she made the choice to carry the baby to term (as I personally believe she should) and to raise it herself (which I believe is generally a bad idea). Those are choices that have serious financial consequences. Statistics further show that a large percentage of teen moms will go on to have a second child before the age of 20. That just compounds their financial woes.

 

Personal responsibility and better decision-making would go a long way in this country towards reducing the problems of poverty.

[Sneezyone]

Unless she's a rape victim, she made the choice to have sex and the choice whether or not to use contraception when having sex. And regardless of the circumstances of the baby's conception, she made the choice to carry the baby to term (as I personally believe she should) and to raise it herself (which I believe is generally a bad idea). Those are choices that have serious financial consequences. Statistics further show that a large percentage of teen moms will go on to have a second child before the age of 20. That just compounds their financial woes.

 

Personal responsibility and better decision-making would go a long way in this country towards reducing the problems of poverty.

 

So you are saying that young girls/women who have children should become handmaidens for the wealthy or accept a life of poverty? Wow.

[Soror]

Does that mean you live on 2 blue collar incomes?

 

I'm not sure I understand the statement. My dh is the only one who works and his job is that of a factory worker that is non-unionized and no specialized trade. I think that is blue collar by any definition that I've seen. He makes so much more than I did working in good part because I picked a field known for little payout- Social Work. He has also been at his job for 18 yrs as well.

[Melissa in Australia]

:blink:

Wow, sometimes when I come on here I am just so flabbergasted by people's attitudes. Are some just putting on a mean Internet personality, or do some really have such attitudes?

 

 

Sure glad I live way on the other side of the world.:leaving:

[Joyofsixreboot]

Yes. It is a rural area with reasonable prices. I am always shocked by prices I see from those of you in urban areas or the coasts. According to the internet our town's median income is $43,000.

[Sneezyone]

:blink:

Wow, sometimes when I come on here I am just so flabbergasted by people's attitudes. Are some just putting on a mean Internet personality, or do some really have such attitudes?

 

I'm afraid what you're reading is fairly representative of the national dialogue in the states these days. By your reaction, I gather you don't want us to export our special brand of cognitive dissonance? *shaking off that unpleasant thought*. Everyone wants to be us! :D

[MedicMom]

Yes. When we married, my husband made $10 an hour and I made $14 but was not working full time. Decent two bedroom apartments here go for $600 a month and utilities aren't too bad. If you are careful, it is reasonable to feed a family of four for around $500 a month. I know a lot of people making less than $15 an hour doing modestly well with a few kids and only one job.

[FiveOaksAcademy]

Untrue. The chance that a child will be born into a family that falls below the poverty line is 80% if 3 criteria are met: mom is a high school dropout, mom is unmarried, and mom is a teenager. If NONE of those criteria are met, the chance is only 8%. All 3 of those things are within the control of the individual (even if the teen winds up pregnant as the result of contraceptive failure, it's still her choice not to give the baby up for adoption).

 

Will making guarantee financial sgood life decisions tability? Sadly not. But making poor decisions almost always leads to financial difficulties.

 

:iagree: And as a society, with some of the handouts we DO choose to give, it is like we encourage the poor choices!!

Edited April 11, 2012 by FiveOaksAcademy

[FiveOaksAcademy]

In this area, one blue collar job could pay for a family. It would be tight, but it would work. I have some friends who homeschool with 5 children with a blue collar job. The wife has learned to work hard with the $$ they do have, gardening, raising their own meat, being careful with every dime.