OregonNative Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) No debate! I'm just wondering who thinks what and if they base it on scripture. I've seen it argued with options 1 and 2 Why I'm asking this question: Someone I know believes Bible scripture tells us that a child is not living until it has taken it's first breath. Therefore, you are not killing a living being during abortion. Edited March 30, 2012 by OregonNative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 :bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 No debate? You must be new around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OregonNative Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 No debate? You must be new around here. Nope! I'm not new. But I've read posts here and will not have any nastiness in this thread. Therefore, NO DEBATE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 No debate? You must be new around here. I'm reasonably sure there's no Biblical stance on kilts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnitWit Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Nope! I'm not. But I've read posts her and there will be no debate. You DO realize that you just ensured one will happen, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 But I've read posts here and will not have any nastiness in this thread. Therefore, NO DEBATE!How do you intend to police this? :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OregonNative Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 You DO realize that you just ensured one will happen, right? It's so hard for people to follow instructions:tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OregonNative Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 I'm reasonably sure there's no Biblical stance on kilts. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 ? Kilts are inevitable, and something we can unite behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 To answer the question, I believe it begins at conception and it is not a belief I have because of the bible. I hope I followed the instructions.:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OregonNative Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 Kilts are inevitable, and something we can unite behind. I know what a kilt is, but it doesn't sound like you are referring to a skirt:001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OregonNative Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 :smilielol5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnitWit Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 :lol::lol::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaceyinLA Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I don't believe a being can grow if not for life. That is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaceful Isle Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Life begins at conception. :001_smile: That's my belief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyMSews Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I voted yes, at conception, based on scripture But I don't know if you wanted references...I don't want to be the one to start the debate...I'm a non-confrontational introvert. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Kilts are inevitable, and something we can unite behind. I read that "kilts are invisible". Posting a pic of an invisible kilt might run up your numbers, but it might also get you banned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyCrazyMama Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I don't believe a being can grow if not for life. That is all. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I read that "kilts are invisible". Posting a pic of an invisible kilt might run up your numbers, but it might also get you banned. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Does scripture even discuss conception specifically? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) I read that "kilts are invisible". Posting a pic of an invisible kilt might run up your numbers, but it might also get you banned. The Emperor's New Kilt. I like. But not enough to get banned. Edited March 30, 2012 by nmoira spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I would say some time after implantation. Sperm and egg join in the fallopian tubes. If the fertilized egg doesn't implant, it cannot continue growing. After implantation it can continue developing and grow a heart within a couple of weeks. Maybe when the heart starts beating that's when life or a soul enters that body? After all, when a heart stops we call that "death." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I think life begins at conception, because from a scientific standpoint, it does. If you mean when is the embryo/fetus/baby a person, I would say being a person means having an immortal, rational soul, and souls of all kinds appear as soon as life does, because the soul is what makes a living thing a living thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Not saying what I personally think, there are those that believe that: -life begins at the quickening (when the fetus is felt moving). -life begins only when the head is born -that until actually born, a fetus is a life but not the same as a living person. -When the embryo becomes a fetus (usually about 10 weeks post LMP) So for many there may be a point between conception and breath. Here is some interpretations from Judaism: http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_abor.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnitWit Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I read that "kilts are invisible". Posting a pic of an invisible kilt might run up your numbers, but it might also get you banned. :lol::lol::lol: This made me choke! :lol::lol::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnificent_baby Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I believe at conception, biblically as well as scientifically. Zero doubt for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvasMom Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 To answer the question, I believe it begins at conception and it is not a belief I have because of the bible. I hope I followed the instructions.:001_smile: :iagree: I believe it begins at conception because I simply think it makes the most biological sense. There's no other point in the gestational period where you can say the fetus changes from non-living to living or from non-human to human. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidi Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 To answer the question, I believe it begins at conception and it is not a belief I have because of the bible. I hope I followed the instructions.:001_smile: :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in Austin Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I'm not sure if this 100% reflects my beliefs, but I did think it was very interesting: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/02/18/the-biblical-view-thats-younger-than-the-happy-meal/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OregonNative Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 Does scripture even discuss conception specifically? It depends on your views. Some believe #1 and point to scripture to prove it. Others believe #2 and point to scripture to prove it. If you support #2, the a child is not living until it has taken it's first breath. Thereby terminating it is not killing a living being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Marple Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I read that "kilts are invisible". Posting a pic of an invisible kilt might run up your numbers, but it might also get you banned. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 This is absolutely fascinating. I've always wondered about when "life begins at conception" started, because the exact date or time of conception has only been knowable for a very short period of recent history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I'm not sure if this 100% reflects my beliefs, but I did think it was very interesting: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/02/18/the-biblical-view-thats-younger-than-the-happy-meal/ Thanks for posting this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 If you post one, Ms. Emperor, I will pretend to see it! I read that "kilts are invisible". Posting a pic of an invisible kilt might run up your numbers, but it might also get you banned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marylou Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 This is absolutely fascinating. I've always wondered about when "life begins at conception" started, because the exact date or time of conception has only been knowable for a very short period of recent history. Known by whom? :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Based on this Scripture: http://bible.cc/psalms/139-13.htm But also, scientifically and as a mother. Once something is, it is. My children were then and they are now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I read that "kilts are invisible". Posting a pic of an invisible kilt might run up your numbers, but it might also get you banned. I once did an internet search for men in kilts and one of the guys was wearing one of the invisable variety. Page one on yahoo. I was honestly shocked and haven't search for men in kilts since then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrappyhappymama Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I believe the Bible supports life beginning at conception. In Luke 1, Mary has just conceived Jesus and goes to visit her cousin Elizabeth. The six month old fetus John in Elizabeth's womb leaps with joy when Mary, in very early pregnancy with the embryo Jesus enters the room and Elizabeth proceeds to praise Mary as the mother of her Lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaceyinLA Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) How can anyone believe there isn't life until a breath has been taken? Clearly the baby is moving. Clearly a heart is beating. Where is there any basis AT ALL for believing that a baby is not alive until it has breathed outside the womb?!? Sorry, going crawl under a rock now... Edited March 30, 2012 by StaceyinLA Changed my wording so I won't get fussed at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Kilts are inevitable, and something we can unite behind. I tried to explain the kilt joke to my parents and brother yesterday. My brother had said that items like specialty kilts aren't in much demand during economic crisis.... Boy I wish I had a pic of all the ones on here :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 The debate is not whether life begins at conception or first breath. It's whether they have a spirit before the first breath, at least as I understand it... I'm not debating.. just clarifying... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I believe that when egg and sperm meet... life is created. Of course, we may prefer to comment about them as the distant "fetus".... the ONLY thing my daughter got with Latin lessons was more of a 'tude. I can't wait for her to take health class and make sure that everyone knows what "fetus" is in Latin ;) She SOOOOO loves to make sure that others know that before she was born... she was a baby :) (Maybe they're really a fish or something else before they're a baby :)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theYoungerMrsWarde Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) I thought there was a verse that said life began when blood first pumped in the heart. That is a point between conception and first breath. Hense the need for an "other" option. Also, Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed you in the wombI knew you, before you were born I set you apart." I equate that with having a soul before first breath (I did not read any posts after the first page.) ETA: after trying to search for that verse on dh's tiny andorid screen cannot find a specific verse. I think it's a combination of verses that people draw that conclusion from. I think it was my file who told me about it. Edited March 30, 2012 by theYoungerMrsWarde Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmmaNZ Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I realise you asked specifically about the bible, but I thought I'd let you know what I believe as a muslim. There is evidence (religious) to suggest that the soul is blown into the fetus at 120 days after conception (that's about 4 months). At this time everything is 'written down' about the child's life, death, finances, final abode etc. Lots of people make a lot of extra prayers for the child at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Squirrel!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I would say some time after implantation. Sperm and egg join in the fallopian tubes. If the fertilized egg doesn't implant, it cannot continue growing. After implantation it can continue developing and grow a heart within a couple of weeks. Maybe when the heart starts beating that's when life or a soul enters that body? After all, when a heart stops we call that "death." there have been quite a few ectopic pregnancies that have progressed long enough for the baby to survive http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1023057/Miracle-mother-gave-birth-girl-month-ectopic-pregnancy.html http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/43193437/ns/today-today_health/t/miracle-baby-was-carried-outside-mothers-womb/ http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2932608.stm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I'm not sure if this 100% reflects my beliefs, but I did think it was very interesting: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/02/18/the-biblical-view-thats-younger-than-the-happy-meal/ Super interesting article. Thanks for pointing it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candid Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Not a Biblicaly based book, but this book: http://www.amazon.com/Dispelling-Abortion-History-Joseph-Dellapenna/dp/0890895090/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1333106874&sr=8-1, deals with the law in the US (and because the law was mostly case law, the law in Europe) on this topic. Since the roots of the laws governing aboriton and still birth come from the medieval church you'll read about that. I learned lots of fascinating stuff, but it was long and academic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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