So, was I mean or unreasonable?

[NanceXToo]

My homeschool group's Meetup dues are due on or before tomorrow (3/1). I have been sending out periodic reminders to my group for a couple of months now, reminding people about it. Probably at least 5 different reminders, all letting people know "Remember, your dues must be paid on or before March 1st to keep your membership active blah blah blah."

 

This one member (who has been a "no show" to events several times) still has not paid her dues or responded to any of those emails.

 

I just saw that she RSVP'd to an event that is being held on March 5th and she commented in her RSVP that she will pay her dues at the same time.

 

Uh. Huh? I very clearly stated over and over they are due on or before March 1st. Not on March 5th.

 

So I just called her house and left a voicemail saying that and asking her to either paypal them or to stop by my house (a town away from her) or m husband's shop (same town she lives in) today or tomorrow and pay them as I've been emailing members for months now letting them know they are due by the 1st and that I would appreciate it if she would pay them on time, especially since by the 5th they will already by late and if she ends up canceling for some reason on the 5th, they'll be even later still. (Members did have the option to mail them in the past, too, but of course it's too late for that now).

 

Am I being unreasonable in this?

[gardening momma]

Am I being unreasonable in this?

No

[Mrs Mungo]

I don't think so. But, you are never going to please everybody.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't think you are mean enough. If she doesn't pay by March 1 then her membership should be inactive as you had stated from the start. She can reinstate her membership but I would have a small penalty for having to reactivate it.

[Night Elf]

No, but 3 things:

 

1. This type of person usually thinks deadlines are arbitrary.

2. This type of person usually thinks they are special and beyond the stated rule.

3. This type of person will raise a huge stink, not only to you but to the rest of the group.

[Bang!Zoom!]

Nope.

 

She's disrespectful at best. Not your job to fix that either.

[kalanamak]

No, but 3 things:

 

1. This type of person usually thinks deadlines are arbitrary.

2. This type of person usually thinks they are special and beyond the stated rule.

3. This type of person will raise a huge stink, not only to you but to the rest of the group.

 

:iagree:

[Harriet Vane]

No, but 3 things:

 

1. This type of person usually thinks deadlines are arbitrary.

2. This type of person usually thinks they are special and beyond the stated rule.

3. This type of person will raise a huge stink, not only to you but to the rest of the group.

 

:iagree:

[Mama Geek]

If it were a financial hardship for them I would say you are being harsh on them. That doesn't sound like it is the case though so I would say no.

[TranquilMind]

My homeschool group's Meetup dues are due on or before tomorrow (3/1). I have been sending out periodic reminders to my group for a couple of months now, reminding people about it. Probably at least 5 different reminders, all letting people know "Remember, your dues must be paid on or before March 1st to keep your membership active blah blah blah."

 

This one member (who has been a "no show" to events several times) still has not paid her dues or responded to any of those emails.

 

I just saw that she RSVP'd to an event that is being held on March 5th and she commented in her RSVP that she will pay her dues at the same time.

 

Uh. Huh? I very clearly stated over and over they are due on or before March 1st. Not on March 5th.

 

So I just called her house and left a voicemail saying that and asking her to either paypal them or to stop by my house (a town away from her) or m husband's shop (same town she lives in) today or tomorrow and pay them as I've been emailing members for months now letting them know they are due by the 1st and that I would appreciate it if she would pay them on time, especially since by the 5th they will already by late and if she ends up canceling for some reason on the 5th, they'll be even later still. (Members did have the option to mail them in the past, too, but of course it's too late for that now).

 

Am I being unreasonable in this?

No, you aren't. But offer the option of mailing them too. At least you will get the dues before the 5th, without requiring her to drive somewhere.

[ThisIsTheDay]

Am I being unreasonable in this?

 

No, you are not. You had two choices, as I see it: Let her slide, or put the same time request on her as you did for everyone else. I think you made the right decision.

[gardening momma]

Does Meetup hold you financially responsible for her dues until she pays? If that's the case, then I would deactivate her membership if she does not pay on or before the 1st.

[NanceXToo]

No, you aren't. But offer the option of mailing them too. At least you will get the dues before the 5th, without requiring her to drive somewhere.

 

She's had that option for months and hasn't utilized it. I really don't want to offer it now. At this point I feel it should be paypalled or dropped off. She lives within just a few minutes of my husband's shop, it's not a far drive.

 

I feel like if it's not paid by tomorrow she should be removed with a note that she can reapply to join after she sends in or drops off dues just to get a point across. This is exactly why I've been sending out so many "reminders." she never even contacted me personally to ask if it was ok to pay it a bit late, but judging by how many no shows she's had it's just not, I would have rather she had just sent it in on time than have to depend on her to show up on the 5th and pay it, and then it's like I'm sending the message that my dues policy of paying by the 1st never really mattered.

[brett_ashley]

It depends on if you are incurring expenses on her behalf between March 1st and March 5th. If so, then it's okay to ask her to bring it by your house, especially if you cannot afford to front her expenses. If you are not incurring any expenses in these four days, then, yes, I think you are being unreasonable to not accept her dues four days late.

[lmrich]

or offer the option she pay them late with a $5.00 late fee

 

You have done your job; it is a job. It is not about friendship.

[Cinder]

You're not being mean--totally reasonable. Sounds like her actions are part of a history of poor attendance/payment and not a special circumstance where she needed extra time. And if it was a special circumstance I'd expect her to explain and ask for the extra time well beforehand.

[Catwoman]

I don't think you are mean enough. If she doesn't pay by March 1 then her membership should be inactive as you had stated from the start. She can reinstate her membership but I would have a small penalty for having to reactivate it.

 

:iagree:

[brett_ashley]

or offer the option she pay them late with a $5.00 late fee

 

I agree. The best way to collect money like this in my experience is to have an early registration price and then a heavily surcharged regular price. For example, "All registration paid by March 1 will be $40, any fees paid after March 1 will be $55." This way it's not a "late fee" per se that someone could ask to be relieved of, but a discount for paying on time.

[Catwoman]

I feel like if it's not paid by tomorrow she should be removed with a note that she can reapply to join after she sends in or drops off dues just to get a point across. This is exactly why I've been sending out so many "reminders." she never even contacted me personally to ask if it was ok to pay it a bit late, but judging by how many no shows she's had it's just not, I would have rather she had just sent it in on time than have to depend on her to show up on the 5th and pay it, and then it's like I'm sending the message that my dues policy of paying by the 1st never really mattered.

 

You're doing the right thing. If you don't get tough, the behavior will continue, and you'll keep getting annoyed.

 

Don't back down and don't let her make you feel guilty. She is entirely wrong, and thinks the world revolves around her. If she wants to make the rules, let her start her own group.

 

And if she does, I'll bet she'll get really nasty the first time anyone doesn't show up for an event or pays late. :glare:

[NanceXToo]

It depends on if you are incurring expenses on her behalf between March 1st and March 5th. If so, then it's okay to ask her to bring it by your house, especially if you cannot afford to front her expenses. If you are not incurring any expenses in these four days, then, yes, I think you are being unreasonable to not accept her dues four days late.

 

I'm not incurring expenses on her behalf between now and then. It's just that I've been telling everyone for MONTHS to pay by March 1st. They've had the option to mail them, to bring them to an event I was going to be at, to drop them at my house or to paypal them. They've had tons of notice and multiple reminders. I see it as her responsibility to pay it on time. She had ample notice, ample opportunity, ample reminders, and she didn't bother. now she wants to pay it late and I'm supposed to just wait (even though everyone else managed to pay on time and even though she's proven to be unreliable about showing up for events she RSVPs to, and even though she didn't discuss this with me and just put it in an RSVP and even though she lives within just a few minutes of us and could still get it to us on time)... It just bothers me!

[Brindee]

It depends on if you are incurring expenses on her behalf between March 1st and March 5th. If so, then it's okay to ask her to bring it by your house, especially if you cannot afford to front her expenses. If you are not incurring any expenses in these four days, then, yes, I think you are being unreasonable to not accept her dues four days late.

To me that opens up a whole new can of worms! As the OP stated, if she lets her just pay late, then it means that the rules and e-mail reminders didn't matter. Then others would want to start paying late. Then the paperwork all gets backed up and more e-mails have to be sent out...... it just doesn't work.

 

I am sure that if this lady had called with an explanation, and asked for an extention, that it could be worked out. But she didn't. She just didn't respond and then assumed she could just pay late. Therein lies the difference between allowing someone with a legitimate need to pay later, and this person who it seems just hasn't bothered. (This is IMHO)

[NanceXToo]

I agree. The best way to collect money like this in my experience is to have an early registration price and then a heavily surcharged regular price. For example, "All registration paid by March 1 will be $40, any fees paid after March 1 will be $55." This way it's not a "late fee" per se that someone could ask to be relieved of, but a discount for paying on time.

 

Our dues are only $12 per year per family by the way lol

[Brindee]

Our dues are only $12 per year per family by the way lol

Wow, good deal! Can I join? I promise I'll pay on time! :D

 

 

Hmmm, I may not make it to many of the events though... ;)

[brett_ashley]

Our dues are only $12 per year per family by the way lol

 

I think that's probably why she doesn't think it's a big deal. $12 for 4 days. Sure, it would be nice if she would grovel and ask for permission for an extension, but--to me--the golden rule dictates that you cut her some slack.

[Mommyfaithe]

No

 

:iagree:....no.

[catz]

If it were a financial hardship for them I would say you are being harsh on them. That doesn't sound like it is the case though so I would say no.

 

Even if it was a financial hardship, she should have contacted you and gave you a heads up about it. Since she's been a no show at events too sounds like she has little or no respect for other people and prefers to live in her own bubble. So nope, not mean or unreasonable!

[NanceXToo]

To me that opens up a whole new can of worms! As the OP stated, if she lets her just pay late, then it means that the rules and e-mail reminders didn't matter. Then others would want to start paying late. Then the paperwork all gets backed up and more e-mails have to be sent out...... it just doesn't work.

 

I am sure that if this lady had called with an explanation, and asked for an extention, that it could be worked out. But she didn't. She just didn't respond and then assumed she could just pay late. Therein lies the difference between allowing someone with a legitimate need to pay later, and this person who it seems just hasn't bothered. (This is IMHO)

 

 

This is true. I had one other member contact me and explain her oldest daughter was getting married and things were a bit tight. She said she would have her dues by the end of the month and would I be willing to take them then. If not she said she could reapply to join the group at a later time. In her case I told her the end of the month was fine. Everybody else paid on time. But a situation like this just wasn't acceptable to me.

[NanceXToo]

Wow, good deal! Can I join? I promise I'll pay on time! :D

 

 

Hmmm, I may not make it to many of the events though... ;)

 

 

lol sure. I put a lot of time into planning a lot of field trips, educational tours, seasonal parties, park days/kickball games, occasional fun classes and clubs- it really is a great group overall, and very active! I love it but the administrative stuff can be not so fun sometimes! :P

[meltf928]

It depends on if you are incurring expenses on her behalf between March 1st and March 5th. If so, then it's okay to ask her to bring it by your house, especially if you cannot afford to front her expenses. If you are not incurring any expenses in these four days, then, yes, I think you are being unreasonable to not accept her dues four days late.

 

 

I agree with this. Most places do allow a few days grace period without a penalty. I would change the policy for the future. If dues are to be paid to Meetup on March 1st, then I would have the dues paid by the members by February 1st. This would then allow you time for the members that are going to pay late.

[catz]

lol sure. I put a lot of time into planning a lot of field trips, educational tours, seasonal parties, park days/kickball games, occasional fun classes and clubs- it really is a great group overall, and very active! I love it but the administrative stuff can be not so fun sometimes! :P

 

See that's the thing to me and why I don't do a much organizing any more except for very small groups of people I know personally. It is a huge amount of energy and time to follow up on administrative stuff on a volunteer basis while being a homeschooling parent! That piece of it is not fun at all. Time and energy are short in this house for sure. If you don't respect the volunteer administrator you deserve the boot! :D

 

We have a local homeschool group that is very large, and if you are a no show on a field trip without a call (or a follow up that there was a dire emergency) that is an automatic blacklist for the group. As it should be IMHO!

[NanceXToo]

I agree with this. Most places do allow a few days grace period without a penalty. I would change the policy for the future. If dues are to be paid to Meetup on March 1st, then I would have the dues paid by the members by February 1st. This would then allow you time for the members that are going to pay late.

 

They're not, they're due at the end of March to Meetup. That's why I make them due to me by 3/1. But we've had problems year after year with members being late with dues (I dont mean this member in particular, shes new this year), so this year we've become stricter and I've been sending out the multiple reminders with the "to keep your membership active" wording. I don't know what else to do to be honest. And there's still always someone who can't be bothered to pay on time. It gets frustrating and time-consuming to have to keep chasing people down for their dues, I just feel like they should be able to be responsible for paying it on time, unless there are extenuating circumstances in which case they can certainly talk to me about it.

[clementine]

There will always be people who don't think the rules apply to them.

 

There will always be people who think that the person in charge will not enforce the rules.

 

In past experiences, I have dealt with several homeschool families who just plain IGNORE set rules. For example:

 

A science experiment class was organized by a mom for ages 10 and up. A different mom emailed and asked if her 8 year old could sign up...."he's very mature for his age and needs more science activities."

 

A field trip was organized by a mom - a parent was required to attend with their child. The same mom from the first example dropped off her children knowing that her children would be supervised, but hadn't arranged another parent to take on that responsibility ahead of time. She told the organizer that she would be back before the end of the field trip.

 

This is a parent who just chooses not to follow rules. You can remind her as often you want, but it just won't make a difference. It sounds like you're dealing with someone very similar.

 

You are not being too harsh, in my opinion.

[jmh]

Don't extend the deadline for her. My husband runs a business online with deadlines for payment every few weeks. Without fail, the same few people will pay late every time. They say things like, "I'll drop it in the mail tomorrow." Or, "Can I give it to you at church next week?" Those people are the same ones that he then has to chase down because they use the service and don't come to church the next week or "forget" to drop it in the mail.

 

Once you extend this for her, she'll expect it over and over.

[JFSinIL]

I don't think you are mean enough. If she doesn't pay by March 1 then her membership should be inactive as you had stated from the start. She can reinstate her membership but I would have a small penalty for having to reactivate it.

 

I agree. Firmly state that if she does not pay be the end of TODAY then she will NOT be an active member and NOT able to attend the event.

[Ellie]

Right on. :cheers2:

 

If you have a rule (and your rule is absolutely reasonable, BTW), then you must require everyone to follow that rule. Scofflaws will be trouble, and that trouble will bite you, not them.

[gardenmom5]

no.

 

My homeschool group would consider that *not* a renewal, but she would have to pay the new group member price and have to reregister. (continuing members get a small discount.)

[Ellie]

I don't think you are mean enough. If she doesn't pay by March 1 then her membership should be inactive as you had stated from the start. She can reinstate her membership but I would have a small penalty for having to reactivate it.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Impish]

No, but 3 things:

 

1. This type of person usually thinks deadlines are arbitrary.

2. This type of person usually thinks they are special and beyond the stated rule.

3. This type of person will raise a huge stink, not only to you but to the rest of the group.

:iagree:

[gardenmom5]

No, you aren't. But offer the option of mailing them too. At least you will get the dues before the 5th, without requiring her to drive somewhere.

 

I wouldn't go with accepting a mailing - that brings back the old cliche of "the check's in the mail". Maybe she'll get a check before the 5th, and maybe she won't.

 

this woman does not strike me as the type to go to the trouble of "writing a check, getting an envelope and addressing it, then going to the burdensome task of placing said envelope in a mailbox." she hasn't been able to do it for all of february, I cannot imagine anything would change now. (all things considered, we wouldn't even know if the check was good for another week or so.)

 

eta: I'm amazed at the number of people who don't have a problem with this type of behavior.

Edited February 29, 2012 by gardenmom5

[Mrs Mungo]

eta: I'm amazed at the number of people who don't have a problem with this type of behavior.

 

There is a difference between not having a problem with it and having been around the block far too many times to be the teeniest bit surprised. I am not the boss of everyone. I have come to terms with that. ;)

Edited February 29, 2012 by Mrs Mungo

[NanceXToo]

I wouldn't go with accepting a mailing - that brings back the old cliche of "the check's in the mail". Maybe she'll get a check before the 5th, and maybe she won't.

 

this woman does not strike me as the type to go to the trouble of "writing a check, getting an envelope and addressing it, then going to the burdensome task of placing said envelope in a mailbox." she hasn't been able to do it for all of february, I cannot imagine anything would change now. (all things considered, we wouldn't even know if the check was good for another week or so.)

 

eta: I'm amazed at the number of people who don't have a problem with this type of behavior.

 

That's what I'm saying! Our group policy page, which everyone has to read and agree to to join, clearly states when dues need to be received by. I don't expect that to be right at the top of peoples' memory banks though, so I started sending out reminders on January 1st.

 

I sent out a reminder 1/1, 1/16, 1/31, 2/15, and then another one to this particular woman on 2/23 saying I haven't heard from you yet and haven't received your payment, please be advised it is due in one week, please make arrangements to get it to me on or before 3/1- she never responded to ANY of them.

 

Then today, the day before the dues are due, she RSVP'd for this thing on the 5th and said in her RSVP: "I'll come, that way I can pay my dues too... lol"

 

Sigh. She's one of the ones that was a no show for that library tour I was so embarrassed about, when most people canceled within the last couple of days and only four families were left, and her (and one other mom) never showed up. When I called her to see if she was coming, because I had these librarians standing there waiting, she was like, "Oh, we don't feel well, so we're not going to come." And I had said, "Okay, well next time can you change your RSVP or call to let somebody know, because we were standing here waiting for you," and she was like, "oh, okay."

 

At home, I sent out an email to the group to this effect, of honoring their RSVP's or changing them if they couldn't go, because in that particular case I would have rescheduled the tour, and then she went and did it AGAIN at the next event she signed up for. Then she signed up for a class at my husband's shop, he had supplies ready for X number of kids, we delayed starting to give everyone a chance to get there and not miss anything, and AGAIN she never showed up, with the four kids she had signed up. I emailed her and was like you can't keep doing this, I've talked to you about it and you did it a couple of times since etc etc- she never answered.

 

Now she's signed up for this, but am I depending on her to show up, dues in hand? Not really. I'd rather she just pay her dues on time if she expects me to keep her in this group. It already says in our group policy that too many no shows may result in removal from the group. I've already said in my emails that non payment of dues on time can result in removal from group. Stuff like this is just really frustrating to me as a group organizer.

 

ETA: You guys have given me something to think about for the future though, some incentive of having members get a discount for paying early, and/or having people have to pay a reinstatement fee plus dues if they get kicked out for non-payment and need to rejoin, or giving a small discount to continuing members or something, I'm going to put some thought into that stuff!

Edited February 29, 2012 by NanceXToo

[AvasMom]

I think that's probably why she doesn't think it's a big deal. $12 for 4 days. Sure, it would be nice if she would grovel and ask for permission for an extension, but--to me--the golden rule dictates that you cut her some slack.

 

Um, no it doesn't. As the OP has stated again and again, the woman had more than enough opportunity to pay or make arrangements and history shows that she isn't likely to show up and pay dues on the 5th either.

[gardening momma]

Sigh. She's one of the ones that was a no show for that library tour I was so embarrassed about, when most people canceled within the last couple of days and only four families were left, and her (and one other mom) never showed up. When I called her to see if she was coming, because I had these librarians standing there waiting, she was like, "Oh, we don't feel well, so we're not going to come." And I had said, "Okay, well next time can you change your RSVP or call to let somebody know, because we were standing here waiting for you," and she was like, "oh, okay."

 

At home, I sent out an email to the group to this effect, of honoring their RSVP's or changing them if they couldn't go, because in that particular case I would have rescheduled the tour, and then she went and did it AGAIN at the next event she signed up for. Then she signed up for a class at my husband's shop, he had supplies ready for X number of kids, we delayed starting to give everyone a chance to get there and not miss anything, and AGAIN she never showed up, with the four kids she had signed up. I emailed her and was like you can't keep doing this, I've talked to you about it and you did it a couple of times since etc etc- she never answered.

 

Now she's signed up for this, but am I depending on her to show up, dues in hand? Not really. I'd rather she just pay her dues on time if she expects me to keep her in this group. It already says in our group policy that too many no shows may result in removal from the group. I've already said in my emails that non payment of dues on time can result in removal from group. Stuff like this is just really frustrating to me as a group organizer.

It looks to me that it is not good to have her part of your group, especially if a) you delay starting an event on time because you're waiting for her, and b) you are counting her and her kids in the total number you're expecting to attend an event. Either start events on time without her, or don't count on her even if she RSVP's. Or cancel her membership for non-payment.

[gardenmom5]

There is a difference between not having a problem with it and having been aroundthe block far too many times to be the teeniest bit surprised. I am not the boss of everyone. I have come to terms with that. ;)

 

:iagree:there is definitely a difference between not having a problem with __ and not being surprised by ___. I would hope even if we're not suprised (which I'm not -nothing new here), it wouldn't be tolerated.

 

I was referring to some of the comments were that OP was "unreasonable" for insisting payments be made by the deadline. those were the one's that amazed me.

[Denisemomof4]

No, not rude at all. She was rude.

 

This type of thing happens regularly with a our homeschool group. It drives the leader crazy. I wish people could be more considerate.

[NorthwestMom]

OP, I think you are doing a thankless job trying to organize homeschoolers! ;)

 

I agree with those who say to stick to your guns. She is a boundary-pusher and you are going to have to be very firm with her. It will be harder in the short-run but pay off in the long run, much like disciplining children. LOL.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I do not think you are mean or unreasonable. I would simply tell her that you cannot hold a space for her unless her dues are paid up. Tell her that you cannot include her on this trip if she is not an active member.

[elegantlion]

You know it's one thing if you make arrangements prior to a deadline and get them accepted by the finance person. It's quite another to just state what you'll be doing, the late payer I mean.

 

I would also add something about what happens if you no-show for field trips. Maybe two strikes and you're out?

 

Sorry you're having to deal with this issue, I don't think you are being unreasonable.

[gardenmom5]

I sent out a reminder 1/1, 1/16, 1/31, 2/15, and then another one to this particular woman on 2/23 saying I haven't heard from you yet and haven't received your payment, please be advised it is due in one week, please make arrangements to get it to me on or before 3/1- she never responded to ANY of them. !

I think you have been very generous with your reminders, and it's time to prune some deadwood.

 

Posted by brett_ashley

I think that's probably why she doesn't think it's a big deal. $12 for 4 days. Sure, it would be nice if she would grovel and ask for permission for an extension, but--to me--the golden rule dictates that you cut her some slack.

Um, no it doesn't. As the OP has stated again and again, the woman had more than enough opportunity to pay or make arrangements and history shows that she isn't likely to show up and pay dues on the 5th either.

 

:iagree: the goldren rule of "do unto other's" stipulates the person *owing* the dues PAYS them on time. especially as she is causing trouble for the person keeping track of everything, not to mention the hassle she has caused the group. If she wants to be respected by the group, she needs to respect the group.

 

Either start events on time without her, or don't count on her even if she RSVP's. Or cancel her membership for non-payment.

:iagree:

Edited February 29, 2012 by gardenmom5

[Jean in Newcastle]

I do not think you are mean or unreasonable. I would simply tell her that you cannot hold a space for her unless her dues are paid up. Tell her that you cannot include her on this trip if she is not an active member.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree: