Has "slave math" been discussed?

[plansrme]

http://www.ajc.com/news/gwinnett/teacher-involved-in-slave-1306373.html

 

In a nutshell, four teachers in a Georgia public elementary school, in an attempt to teach across the curriculum, sent home math word problems that refer to slavery. As best as I can tell, the most offending question was something along the lines of, "If Frederick receives two beatings a day, how many does he receive in five days?" The students had been studying Frederick Douglass. There also was a question on how many bags of cotton a slave picked. More than 80% of the students in this school are black, hispanic and other racial minorities.

 

These questions sparked protests, comments from the NAACP, and significant local news coverage. The teacher who wrote the questions has just "resigned."

 

I am interested in thoughts about whether and why this is or is not offensive, and whether a teacher should be fired over it. Let's just assume the obvious, that she resigned because she was going to be fired.

 

Terri

[Chris in VA]

I think it was a misguided attempt to over-theme her curricula.

[MorganClassicalPrep]

I think it was a misguided attempt to over-theme her curricula.

 

:iagree: I don't think it was intended to be anything other than a "connection."

 

I don't understand... can't math just be math?? :tongue_smilie:

[lionfamily1999]

I think she was secretly pleased that so many students read their homework and so many of their parents became involved.

[Dustybug]

I think it was a misguided attempt to over-theme her curricula.

 

:iagree:but I don't like it and probably would have complained. I don't know that she should be fired over it, but a warning would suffice for me.

[LG Gone Wild]

She should be fired for stupidity.

 

I don't think she meant harm but jeez, what a dolt!

[ereks mom]

I think it was a misguided attempt to over-theme her curricula.

 

:iagree:

 

I think she was secretly pleased that so many students read their homework and so many of their parents became involved.

 

:D

[elegantlion]

It was a stupid move, one that should have never made it passed the initial thought process.

 

Oh, it was four teachers? Should have died in committee. Seriously, didn't one of them stop to think that this was a really bad idea?

[ElizaG]

"Braxton said that Wednesday's teacher resignation should only be the 'tip of the iceberg' in handling the slave math incident. He said he wants counselors to speak to students impacted by the questions and the fallout."

 

Counselors? That seems a bit much. Reminiscent of the "therapy culture" discussed in recent threads. :001_huh:

[jamajo]

Let's say the math questions followed these lines:

 

If Hitler decides to send 2 redheads, and one brown-eyed person to the concentration camp a day how many of each type of person would be imprisoned by Day 10?

 

How would we answer the OP question in this instance?

I'm just curious....

 

Would a warning suffice?

Is making a connection important?

Do the red head kids need therapy or at least some counseling?

 

 

I'm in trouble now:001_huh:

[unsinkable]

(Did anyone see the spokesperson's name? Sloane Roach? Uggh.)

[SKL]

I think maybe teachers need to be better trained about these kinds of sensitivities.

[Mommy22alyns]

Well, I'm glad the teacher "resigned" because SOMEONE needed to lose their job for this. This is metropolitan Atlanta, not even some backwater county of GA (not that that would excuse the examples). I was stunned speechless that this passed muster by however many pairs of eyes saw this before it went to students.

[MHowell]

I guess I am not racially sensitive, it doesn't bother me at all. :leaving:

Edited January 18, 2012 by MHowell

[Unicorn.]

"Braxton said that Wednesday's teacher resignation should only be the 'tip of the iceberg' in handling the slave math incident. He said he wants counselors to speak to students impacted by the questions and the fallout."Counselors? That seems a bit much. Reminiscent of the "therapy culture" discussed in recent threads. :001_huh:

Fallout, impacted, and counselors? What a load of crap. Teachers are pushed to teach across the curriculum, and if they were studying Frederick Douglass and slavery, then the questions, while possibly in poor taste, were in line w/ that. What a better way to get the point of the horrible atrocities of the past across, than to include the math of the time period they are studying.

 

Let's say the math questions followed these lines:

 

If Hitler decides to send 2 redheads, and one brown-eyed person to the concentration camp a day how many of each type of person would be imprisoned by Day 10?

 

How would we answer the OP question in this instance?

I'm just curious....

 

Would a warning suffice?

Is making a connection important?

Do the red head kids need therapy or at least some counseling?

 

 

I'm in trouble now:001_huh:

 

Same thoughts as above, except to add that yes, the redheads need therapy, but that's because we have anger issues (hot tempers) simply because we are redheads. :D The teacher resigning was unnecessary imho.

[ravinlunachick]

I think it was abhorrent and deserves all the media attention it's getting. I don't think counselors are needed; that's way OTT in my opinion. Having taught for many years, I'd bet that the teacher who resigned might be close to retirement and this just spurred her/him to go ahead and throw in the towel a bit early.

 

We were taught in teacher training to be sensitive to these sorts of things. One of my fellow student teachers was removed from her position in one school because she sent a child home with a big yellow star on his shirt. He was "Student of the Day". And Jewish. He went home and told him mom the teacher made him wear it because he was special. Yikes.

[SKL]

Anyone know what race the teacher who wrote the questions was?

 

I'd guess the intent was good here. The article mentions a better way to integrate math and the Fredrick Douglass unit, and I agree with it, but was this kind of approach ever discussed before a parent complained? Who was responsible to make sure teachers were aware of the "better way" to do this?

 

Demanding the firing of teachers where the intent was good is foolish. The parents should instead insist that the school demonstrate what it's doing to prevent another such incident. Otherwise it's going to happen again, in some form or other. If they really care what their kid hears, they should be focusing on prevention, not retaliation.

[plansrme]

Well, I'm glad the teacher "resigned" because SOMEONE needed to lose their job for this. This is metropolitan Atlanta, not even some backwater county of GA (not that that would excuse the examples). I was stunned speechless that this passed muster by however many pairs of eyes saw this before it went to students.

 

But WHY is it offensive? Because it mentions unpleasant facts? That can't be it, because we are encouraged to discuss issues of race, aren't we? I really want to know why this is so bad, not hear more, "How outrageous!"

 

Terri

[SKL]

We were taught in teacher training to be sensitive to these sorts of things. One of my fellow student teachers was removed from her position in one school because she sent a child home with a big yellow star on his shirt. He was "Student of the Day". And Jewish. He went home and told him mom the teacher made him wear it because he was special. Yikes.

 

Unless she chose a star because the child was Jewish, what is the big deal? Now nobody's allowed to use yellow stars as incentives if there's a Jewish kid in the class? How was she even supposed to know he was Jewish? Or should they keep a different kind of sticker for Jewish kids?

 

Sometimes parents do overreact; and being Jewish (or other minority) doesn't change that fact. Turning every benign thing into racism (or whatever-ism) is harmful to the upcoming generation, in my opinion.

[SKL]

But WHY is it offensive? Because it mentions unpleasant facts? That can't be it, because we are encouraged to discuss issues of race, aren't we? I really want to know why this is so bad, not hear more, "How outrageous!"

 

Terri

 

I agree in the sense that someone needs to define the line here. If you asked as a Geography question "in what state was Dred Scott tried," that would be OK, I presume. What about "how many days passed between Dred Scott's escape and his trial?" Is that offensive?

 

I think the problem with the quoted questions was that they made the stuff up (as opposed to referring to factual history) and made it somewhat of a game. In this way they made light of something that should be spoken of gravely. But are teachers trained to go through this kind of analysis every time they develop a cross-curriculum exercise? And if they are not, is it really fair to blame them when something misses the mark?

[ravinlunachick]

Unless she chose a star because the child was Jewish, what is the big deal? Now nobody's allowed to use yellow stars as incentives if there's a Jewish kid in the class? How was she even supposed to know he was Jewish? Or should they keep a different kind of sticker for Jewish kids?

 

Sometimes parents do overreact; and being Jewish (or other minority) doesn't change that fact. Turning every benign thing into racism (or whatever-ism) is harmful to the upcoming generation, in my opinion.

 

She had no idea, and even worse, she didn't realize that there was anything "funny" about the paper star she'd made. The only kind of star she knew how to make was a six-pointed one. But man, oh man, did that family fly up to the school for some answers! Had she been an employed teacher, she'd probably have just been able to apologize and explain herself, but as a student teacher, she was doomed. Even once the family had calmed down, the principal was still furious.

 

FTR, I don't think there was anything wrong with the cotton-picking questions (my Southern friends will know why I'm snickering at that one! :lol: ) but the beating ones take it too far.

[Laurie4b]

Yes, it is offensive because it takes a great human tragedy and treats it tritely. Substitute a current tragedy and make up a math problem about it: transplants denied to cognitively disabled children, teenaged suicides, child prostitution. Write a cute little multiplication problem for each one. See?

 

That being said, I wouldn't tend to assume the teacher was a bad person , but rather used incredibly poor judgment while straining to make a thematic math sheet. One teacher made the problems up; 4 teachers passed them out. That's a lot of teachers not thinking.

[NanceXToo]

Yes, it is offensive because it takes a great human tragedy and treats it tritely. Substitute a current tragedy and make up a math problem about it: transplants denied to cognitively disabled children, teenaged suicides, child prostitution. Write a cute little multiplication problem for each one. See?

 

That being said, I wouldn't tend to assume the teacher was a bad person , but rather used incredibly poor judgment while straining to make a thematic math sheet. One teacher made the problems up; 4 teachers passed them out. That's a lot of teachers not thinking.

 

:iagree:

[LeslieAnneLevine]

Yes, it is offensive because it takes a great human tragedy and treats it tritely. Substitute a current tragedy and make up a math problem about it: transplants denied to cognitively disabled children, teenaged suicides, child prostitution. Write a cute little multiplication problem for each one. See?

 

 

I'm imagining math problems for 9/11... or gang rape or soldiers killed in Iraq. It's trivializes tragedy and is pretty disgusting. However, having read some posts (not in this thread and not only on these forums) about how slaves weren't treated so badly and liked their lives, maybe those math problems are the lesser of two evils:001_huh:

[jamajo]

Yes, it is offensive because it takes a great human tragedy and treats it tritely. Substitute a current tragedy and make up a math problem about it: transplants denied to cognitively disabled children, teenaged suicides, child prostitution. Write a cute little multiplication problem for each one. See?

 

That being said, I wouldn't tend to assume the teacher was a bad person , but rather used incredibly poor judgment while straining to make a thematic math sheet. One teacher made the problems up; 4 teachers passed them out. That's a lot of teachers not thinking.

:iagree: You said it perfectly. I was sending the poster who asked why is it offensive a PM until I read this post. You hit the nail on the head. For the people who have gone through the atrocities personally or as a "people" you just can't trivialize the issues surrounding the issue (i.e. cotton picking, beatings...).

[jamajo]

However, having read some posts (not in this thread and not only on these forums) about how slaves weren't treated so badly and liked their lives, maybe those math problems are the lesser of two evils:001_huh:

 

 

NO....I think that would be worse.

[kalanamak]

Fallout, impacted, and counselors? What a load of crap.

 

This is to buffer the fallout of a law suit.

[Farrar]

She should be fired for stupidity.

 

:iagree: Even if she didn't mean any harm, come on. No one with that complete lack of common sense meter should be teaching. And I usually try to excuse and understand these things. I mean, I've been a classroom teacher and done my share of dumb things, but this is beyond that.

 

Yes, it is offensive because it takes a great human tragedy and treats it tritely. Substitute a current tragedy and make up a math problem about it: transplants denied to cognitively disabled children, teenaged suicides, child prostitution. Write a cute little multiplication problem for each one. See?

 

That being said, I wouldn't tend to assume the teacher was a bad person , but rather used incredibly poor judgment while straining to make a thematic math sheet. One teacher made the problems up; 4 teachers passed them out. That's a lot of teachers not thinking.

 

Well, that says it even better. :)

[Momof3littles]

I agree that it trivializes something very significant, and I think someone absolutely deserved to lose their job.

 

If I remember correctly the original spokesperson said something to the effect of it being "poor wording" but honestly, I think it is poor judgment, not just an issue of wording.

[Mommy22alyns]

Yes, it is offensive because it takes a great human tragedy and treats it tritely. Substitute a current tragedy and make up a math problem about it: transplants denied to cognitively disabled children, teenaged suicides, child prostitution. Write a cute little multiplication problem for each one. See?

 

That being said, I wouldn't tend to assume the teacher was a bad person , but rather used incredibly poor judgment while straining to make a thematic math sheet. One teacher made the problems up; 4 teachers passed them out. That's a lot of teachers not thinking.

 

 

This, exactly. This is why.

[Rivka]

Yes, it is offensive because it takes a great human tragedy and treats it tritely. Substitute a current tragedy and make up a math problem about it: transplants denied to cognitively disabled children, teenaged suicides, child prostitution. Write a cute little multiplication problem for each one. See?

 

Right. The questions put slavery in a neutral context; you're just supposed to be considering the mathematical aspect of it. You're supposed to set aside the horror and outrage of it and only think in terms of the numbers. "Hmm, how productive were those slaves?" "Beaten twice a day? Ho hum, seven times two is fourteen! Moving on."

 

No.

 

I was imagining a class studying 20th century history and the war in Bosnia. "Anna was raped by six Serbian soldiers every day. How many soldiers raped her by the end of the week?" Would you expect your daughter to sit in front of that question and think about multiplication?

[plansrme]

I was sending the poster who asked why is it offensive a PM until I read this post.

 

Why would you send me a PM instead of answering in the thread? I asked an honest question, one that has not been answered in any of the extensive local publicity about this case or in the first couple of pages of this thread. I have not and am not arguing that those who have now responded are wrong to be offended, and I appreciate those who have responded with their point of view. No private tongue-lashing is necessary.

 

Terri

[plansrme]

Yes, it is offensive because it takes a great human tragedy and treats it tritely. Substitute a current tragedy and make up a math problem about it: transplants denied to cognitively disabled children, teenaged suicides, child prostitution. Write a cute little multiplication problem for each one. See?

 

That being said, I wouldn't tend to assume the teacher was a bad person , but rather used incredibly poor judgment while straining to make a thematic math sheet. One teacher made the problems up; 4 teachers passed them out. That's a lot of teachers not thinking.

 

I appreciate your putting this together. No, I don't "see," exactly, but I still appreciate the perspective. As for the examples you cited, certainly they are not age-appropriate for third grade, while Frederick Douglass, slavery and the fact that owners sometimes beat their slaves, are. If a middle-schooler or high-schooler came home with math problems about child prostitution or teenaged suicides, however, no, I wouldn't be offended. I would think, "Ewwww, what depressing math," but I wouldn't call for someone's head on a platter.

 

 

 

Terri

[LeslieAnneLevine]

NO....I think that would be worse.

 

Well I wrote that tongue-in-cheek, but it does disturb me that there are people who don't believe slavery was a tragedy.

[Mrs Mungo]

Yes, it is offensive because it takes a great human tragedy and treats it tritely. Substitute a current tragedy and make up a math problem about it: transplants denied to cognitively disabled children, teenaged suicides, child prostitution. Write a cute little multiplication problem for each one. See?

 

That being said, I wouldn't tend to assume the teacher was a bad person , but rather used incredibly poor judgment while straining to make a thematic math sheet. One teacher made the problems up; 4 teachers passed them out. That's a lot of teachers not thinking.

 

I agree.

[zaichiki]

I was stunned speechless that this passed muster by however many pairs of eyes saw this before it went to students.

:iagree:

Even beyone racism and slavery, this bothers me. Math problems about beatings?! For young children?! Are these teachers for REAL???

[zaichiki]

Even if she didn't mean any harm, come on. No one with that complete lack of common sense meter should be teaching.

 

That's it!

[ereks mom]

 

FTR, I don't think there was anything wrong with the cotton-picking questions (my Southern friends will know why I'm snickering at that one! :lol: ) but the beating ones take it too far.

 

:lol: Southern belle here!

[Paige]

But WHY is it offensive? Because it mentions unpleasant facts? That can't be it, because we are encouraged to discuss issues of race, aren't we? I really want to know why this is so bad, not hear more, "How outrageous!"

 

Terri

 

I believe it was so offensive, and would have been offensive to my children, because these are 8yr old kids. Yes, they know about slavery- somewhat- but many parents don't want their children visualizing people being beaten and abused during math class. My children are sensitive and I don't really want to be forced into a discussion about racism, hatred, nasty history, and pain while we just want to finish math and get on with the day. It's not something a lot of young children can nod their heads at and then move on with their day without having it stuck in their heads. Maybe as adults we may be more jaded and used to hearing about it, but it is new for a lot of these kids and should be treated with delicacy. If slavery is discussed in 3rd grade, I'm confident no public school is going dwell on beatings during the lessons. The lesson also included questions about how many days Susan B Anthony was imprisoned for trying to vote and who knows what else. It was all around a horrible lesson and showed horrible judgement on the teachers' part.

 

I talked with my DS about racism, sexism, slavery, and other painful topics at a young age- starting at about kindergarten, but we did it in a safe environment where I knew he had time to ask questions and I was prepared to spend the time and emotional energy with him so that he would be ok with it. These kids' parents had the subject forced on them and their children after school.

[reign]

She should be fired for stupidity.

 

I don't think she meant harm but jeez, what a dolt!

 

I agree. Wow I am shocked someone would think that would be a good idea.

[stripe]

Even if it's not offensive, it reduces slavery and beatings to some dull calculation. The questions DON'T inspire moral outrage -- not "How many women must be raped and children taken away from their mothers and men emasculated?" as a philosophical question, but an arithmetic one.

 

Marva Collins lists her reasons for hating this attempt to be "relevant" in her book, btw.

[silliness7]

Anyone know what race the teacher who wrote the questions was?

 

I'd guess the intent was good here. The article mentions a better way to integrate math and the Fredrick Douglass unit, and I agree with it, but was this kind of approach ever discussed before a parent complained? Who was responsible to make sure teachers were aware of the "better way" to do this?

 

Demanding the firing of teachers where the intent was good is foolish. The parents should instead insist that the school demonstrate what it's doing to prevent another such incident. Otherwise it's going to happen again, in some form or other. If they really care what their kid hears, they should be focusing on prevention, not retaliation.

 

:iagree: After all the hoopla and negative attention I would bet these 4 teachers would never DREAM of making that same mistake again. They're taking their chances that the newbies they replace them with will not make that same mistake. But why not? There's a glitch in the system somewhere if this passed 4 sets of eyes.

 

ETA: I'm not condoning the worksheets, btw. But thinking that firing 4 teachers is not the best way to actually solve what seems to be a bigger problem.

Edited January 19, 2012 by silliness7

[TracyR]

I think Deon Cole got this one right:

http://teamcoco.com/video/deon-cole-georgia-textbooks

 

He set the math straight! LOL I remembered when it aired. My husband and I bout rolled off the couch laughing.

 

P.S. If you have a slower computer like I do it may take about 30 seconds or so to load , and may keep loading while you watch it. If that happens. Let it play through a 2nd time and you can watch it uninterrupted.

[Vanna]

Yes, it is offensive because it takes a great human tragedy and treats it tritely. Substitute a current tragedy and make up a math problem about it: transplants denied to cognitively disabled children, teenaged suicides, child prostitution. Write a cute little multiplication problem for each one. See?

 

That being said, I wouldn't tend to assume the teacher was a bad person , but rather used incredibly poor judgment while straining to make a thematic math sheet. One teacher made the problems up; 4 teachers passed them out. That's a lot of teachers not thinking.

:iagree:

 

Right. The questions put slavery in a neutral context; you're just supposed to be considering the mathematical aspect of it. You're supposed to set aside the horror and outrage of it and only think in terms of the numbers. "Hmm, how productive were those slaves?" "Beaten twice a day? Ho hum, seven times two is fourteen! Moving on."

 

No.

 

I was imagining a class studying 20th century history and the war in Bosnia. "Anna was raped by six Serbian soldiers every day. How many soldiers raped her by the end of the week?" Would you expect your daughter to sit in front of that question and think about multiplication?

:iagree:

 

I think Deon Cole got this one right:

http://teamcoco.com/video/deon-cole-georgia-textbooks

 

He set the math straight! LOL I remembered when it aired. My husband and I bout rolled off the couch laughing.

 

:lol: cough! lol!

 

Okay, I know this thread is old, but I was hunting around for threads about teaching on slavery and stumbled on this one.

 

I will state for the record that I am black and if a teacher gave such questions like these in the school in Georgia, I would definitely be mad and offended. I think the other posters that I quoted above have already done an excellent job explaining why such questions were not appropriate. I will only add that one should try walking in the shoes of those who might be offended by such "slavery-related" questions to try and understand why someone might feel they are inappropriate, even if the teacher is trying to teach across the curriculum.

[WishboneDawn]

.

Edited November 1, 2012 by WishboneDawn

[Night Elf]

OLD thread. Interesting, but it's from January.

[Haiku]

But WHY is it offensive?

 

Because having children calculate the number of times a person is beaten is repugnant. Do you not see that? Having kids do math problems about abuse is not a way of handling tough issues sensitively.

 

Tara