For most children, would you say reading needs to be explicitly taught, or can it be.

[Halcyon]

......"picked up" like walking or speaking? I was talking with an unschooling friend of mine today, and she sent me a link to this thread in which a number of the posters feel that reading is akin to walking, in that it can't be taught. It's an old thread, but it made me wonder.

 

Any thoughts?

[cathmom]

I completely disagree. I think some children can just pick it up, but I think most need to be taught.

[WishboneDawn]

I think it can go both ways. My daughter picked iy up when we unschooled with no explicit teaching. My son is now reading but had to be taught with Apples and Pears dur, I think, to some un-diagnosed learning issues. It's not an either/or matter.

[SailorMom]

I picked it up. I really did. So did my older DS.

[Veritaserum]

I completely disagree. I think some children can just pick it up, but I think most need to be taught.

 

:iagree: And the ones who "just pick it up" can run into trouble later if they had no phonics instruction. Which SWB lecture talks about remediating phonics with 4th/5th/6th-graders?

[kiana]

Seeing comments like "All unschooled children learn to read" immediately rubs me the wrong way.

 

I think that the chances are pretty high, barring unexpected learning difficulties, of a child in a fully literate household, where reading is done frequently and with joy by the parents, picking up reading independently.

 

But I also think that "waiting for it to click" may cause a child with disabilities, who could have been remediated with an early start, some serious issues. Furthermore, if the parents don't read around the household, including reading TO the children, I would think the chances are much lower.

[cathmom]

Let me add: if your child is one of the ones who cannot just pick it up, I think they are being done a great disservice by not being taught phonics. I think one should err on the side of caution by teaching all children phonics. Some won't need it; some wouldn't have needed it; some desperately need it. They don't come with labels on which kind they are!

 

I am very emphatic about this because I have a daughter with severe dyslexia.

[Angel]

I would say it can be both. My older dd learned to read in school. I was all worried about teaching my younger dd to read at the time, but it was really easy. My cousin who teaches 2nd grade at public school tested her for me just for fun and she was way above grade level. I was feeling pretty good about myself and then my cousin told me that my dd would have learned to read no matter what I did. She was just that kind of kid to where it comes as easy as breathing. Burst my bubble she did :lol: But I know that not every kid is the same and therefore there are plenty to whom it doesn't come easy and they need more specific instruction.

[Jennifer in MI]

I have three boys who would NOT have picked it up without instruction. Well, to be fair, they may have picked it up, but they would have been VERY old - 10, 11 maybe?

 

Dd? She picked it up. On her own. Totally. At 3.

[Jennifer3141]

I picked it up. DH picked it up.

 

But neither of our kids "got" it until 100 EZ. So I don't know. My kids are definitely wilder than I was as a child and I think that has a lot to do with it in our family.

[LaxMom]

I completely disagree. I think some children can just pick it up, but I think most need to be taught.

 

This was my thought as well. I wasn't explicitly taught - I entered school reading - but most children in my class, and all of my children, as well as the other children I know, needed to be explicitly taught.

[HappyCrazyMama]

I know it happens but there are a lot of people walking around that can't read so...

 

 

ETA- I just read that thread and I'm amazed that some seem to be against teaching anything even if the child wants to learn something. I'm not against unschooling I just never realized some go that far in their philosophy. Really I can't imagine telling my children that they just had to figure it out.

Edited December 4, 2011 by Happyhomemama

[bettyandbob]

My oldest "just picked up" reading with no instruction. I didn't realize he was reading until his 4th birthday. He was well into chapter books at 5.

 

My dd was somewhat taught. She was writing things on her own from age 4. Everything was spelled phonetically. BUT she refused to read and insisted she could not read. So she was taught. She's still a terrible speller, but now she knows she must check her spelling.

 

My youngest has disabilities and we are really struggling to teach him, but he is learning.

[Halcyon]

ETA- I just read that thread and I'm amazed that some seem to be against teaching anything even if the child wants to learn something. I'm not against unschooling I just never realized some go that far in their philosophy. Really I can't imagine telling my children that they just had to figure it out.

 

Yes, that part baffles me.

[Bluegoat]

Yes, that part baffles me.

 

I wonder if some of it comes from a Waldorf kind of perspective?

[kiana]

Springboarding off my earlier post:

 

Children who are raised without being spoken to will not acquire language. Furthermore, the language must be used to INTERACT with the child -- simply having the radio on constantly does not work. If the window of opportunity for learning a language passes, the child will probably never learn more than a few words. This is (obviously) not something formally studied but learned through feral children. Again, studies from feral children -- many have NOT learned to walk upright, but rather crawled or ran on all 4s.

 

So although walking and talking are totally natural for us to learn, they still must be indirectly taught through adults or older children in the child's life. Furthermore, some children need explicit speech therapy, physical therapy, etc. Reading is a less fundamental skill than walking and talking; it is learned later and was not universally developed among all cultures.

 

Why, then, would we expect a child who is NOT routinely interacted with through the written word to pick up reading naturally? However, a child who IS frequently and lovingly read to by an enthusiastic parent will (imo) have a very good chance of just picking it up.

[ErinE]

For most children? I don't know. I have two. Ds was reading going into ps with little instruction. My dd is requiring pretty intensive phonics instruction. So, I'm at 50/50 thus far. However, if my child asked for reading lessons, I would comply.

Edited December 4, 2011 by ErinE

[elegantlion]

I don't remember learning to read. I do know that my mom purposely worked with me, but I read well before starting kindergarten.

 

My ds needed focused intervention to pick up reading.

[StartingOver]

:iagree: And the ones who "just pick it up" can run into trouble later if they had no phonics instruction. Which SWB lecture talks about remediating phonics with 4th/5th/6th-graders?

 

This is my issue ! Most children I that I have seen that taught themselves are find in the lower grades, but have issues when they come across more unknown words, and don't know how to decode them. All but one of my children have been super, early, easy readers. But I do phonics with them anyway.

[OrganicAnn]

I have a sample of 1. She had to be/still is being taught. She had to work with a reading tutor this summer for some intensive instruction. If I waited till she picked it up herself, then she would be illiterate. We've read aloud to her about 1 hour a day, since birth (maybe more). We have more books that we know what to do with, so it is not for lack of a book rich environment.

 

I guess I could add that I think I would never have picked it up as a kid. I remember reading was a struggle for me. My brother and sister had to be taught. My niece on the other hand picked it up.

 

I wonder if they took a random sample of 100 kids and waited till they were about 7 1/2 how many of them would have learned on their own. I would guess only about 30%.

[zookeeper]

I have one child who just learned all by herself. She came to me at about 6 and said she wanted to read a book to me. I was prepared for the long, drawn out sounding out of words. She just read it to me. No problem. I don't know when/how she learned to read. I've had two others that have picked it up fairly easily and another that is still struggling at 9. They're all different.

[Guest submarines]

I think one of the issues is defining "picked up." Walking is not just picked up in a vacuum--babies first crawl then pull up, babies cruise, they want to hold their parents' hand (and most parents won't refuse). The same with talking--most parents constantly talk to their babies, or at the very least, to each other. Babies are taught to walk and talk very naturally, in a natural context, without any effort on behalf of the parents. There are no curricula, lessons, expectations, or schedules. there's no active teaching involved. (Well, I do know a mother who actively trained her infant to walk, but I hope she was more of an exception.) When we look back, didn't this baby just picked it up? Surely.

 

An unschooling parent does not set up to teach her child to read. This doesn't mean that learning isn't happening. When DD showed interest at the age of 5, I bought a simple book of Teach Your Child to Read variety. She sat for 5 minutes with me examining the first page, and then she was done. At some point I showed her Starfall.com. Some days she played on it, some days she didn't. Months later she wanted me to help her out. We sat with her book for 5 minutes, and then she didn't want my help anymore.

 

Meanwhile we read daily. I'm not a very sure of myself unschooler (hence I'm here :lol:), so from time to time I asked whether she wanted more help with reading. I probably probed more than a typical unschooler. I bought her little readers that I thought she'd like. She mostly refused. Of course when she had questions, I answered.

 

Then when she was 6 she picked up a level 2 reader at the library, and read it out loud to me.

 

So she did seemingly pick it up. But just like walking and talking, there was plenty of support, encouragement, opportunities, suggestions, modelling and what not. She didn't pick it up out of thin air.

 

Now, DS has a different personality, and he actively brings his readers to me and reads them. We've never done any scheduled structured lessons. He might be into reading for a week, and then take a couple of weeks to focus on something else.

 

I do believe that most (if not all ) children who are not learning disabled will learn easily this way, when they are ready. There's no need for lessons unless the child really wants them. A small proportion of children will pick it up even with less parental involvement, and those are typically very early readers (think reading fluently at 2,3, 4 years old).

[Mommy22alyns]

I think that reading needs to be explicitly taught to most children. Some can just "pick it up." Both of my girls are self-taught, but I wouldn't say every child can do that.

[milovany]

Four of my five reading children pretty much taught themselves. The oldest (the one I "taught") was almost 8 before he got it and started reading on his own. I probably didn't start teaching him until he was 6-7 or so. For some reason, I don't know why, I'm doing some reading lessons now from time to time with our 5yos.

 

I go for a mix of thoughts on this. I think there's a readiness just like with toilet training and that it really doesnt do much good to push it before they're ready. Also, it's really hard to say that some children "had" to be taught; if they were taught there's no way to say whether or not they would have figured it out on their own and when (just a statement of fact; not stating opinion on anything). Even though I didn't do any Official Teaching with the four that I say "taught themselves," we certainly did talk occasionally about letters and what sounds they made as we went about our day. And as we continue on, we do a bit of reading aloud so I can see if there are problems anywhere and we address them when there are.

Edited December 4, 2011 by milovaný

[Mommyof4ks]

My oldest just picked it up, but my boys need to be taught. This is true with everything though, some people have certain natural talents. My youngest is making change with money, dividing though we have not worked on it. That was not the case for my oldest, she just started to understand division in 5th grade, and she still can't make chane at 11.

[----]

.

[AvasMom]

I picked it up when I was 3 and never had any problems as a result. Until I had kids I thought it was a perfectly natural thing to pick up too. Both of my kids had several bumps in the road when learning to read so they definitely didn't pick it up naturally. I think it just depends on the child really.

[SKL]

I believe that most kids will pick it up eventually if they are exposed to it. Those who find it really mysterious will most likely compensate their way around learning it in order to deal with social stigma. In my opinion, reading should be taught at least to kids who are not picking it up before the age when a lack of reading proficiency starts to matter socially.

 

Personally, I opt for early reading instruction. But I certainly don't think it's the only valid way.

[Annie Laurie]

I think it's best to teach phonics because many kids do need to be taught and some kids have learning disabilities that require very explicit phonics instruction. I would be afraid kids would get so far behind, or become turned off of the idea of reading, if phonics were just skipped in a "wait and see" kind of way, waiting to see if the kids could learn it themselves.

 

That said, my dh and I both learned how to read before we went to school. And all of my kids have just learned- anywhere from 3 to 5 years. We read to them a lot and that was enough. None have any problems now. Granted, I've gone back over phonics with the three middle kids but I never did with my oldest and he's had no issues.

[kathymuggle]

I taught all of mine to read - but 2 picked it up very easily and one did not and is finally around grade level.

 

My mom picked it up before entering kindergarten.

 

I read a bit of the thread in the OP. Here is my take, and I say this as someone who is USish, or at least USing friendly: take what the USing community says online with a grain of salt.

 

For example, one of the posters said "one cannot be taught to read - one will learn when one is ready" and then went on to say in the same post "here are some reading games for kids who are not quite there yet" Ok - how are reading games not "teaching"? A lot of USing online often comes down to semantics. Some USers just don't like the word "teach".

Edited December 4, 2011 by kathymuggle

[Embassy]

My boys pretty much picked it up. One needed a bit of instruction, but it didn't take much. But they both needed lots of phonics-based spelling instruction because they didn't get it learning to read.

Edited December 4, 2011 by Wehomeschool

[Stacy in NJ]

find the answer to just this question.

 

Google California reading scores and Whole Language if you're interested.

 

Here's a Wiki article describing Whole Language.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole_language

[Farrar]

Oh geez, make that conversation die. I've seen it many times and it makes me cringe every time.

 

Here's what I think...

 

I have no problem with the wait and see attitude.

 

I think many kids can pick up reading pretty naturally. I think the phonics aspect can be intuitive to many as well.

 

I don't think reading absolutely requires direct instruction or workbooks.

 

BUT...

 

I do have a problem with people who refuse to give any type of instruction, even when a child asks for it.

 

I think some (or maybe even many) children do need instruction. Plus, some children have real learning disabilities. No amount of "wait and see" will allow them to get it the way it *might* with a neurotypical kid. Why would you want to take that chance?

[Farrar]

find the answer to just this question.

 

Google California reading scores and Whole Language if you're interested.

 

Here's a Wiki article describing Whole Language.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole_language

 

Whole language does not equal absolutely no instruction as advocated by some of the unschoolers in that thread. I think these are really different approaches.

[Tigger]

:iagree: And the ones who "just pick it up" can run into trouble later if they had no phonics instruction. Which SWB lecture talks about remediating phonics with 4th/5th/6th-graders?

 

:iagree:

 

I was never formally taught to read and was reading 3rd grade level before K and up to HS level before 3rd grade....yet, to this day, I struggle with some pronunciations of words (ie. like paradigm) because I didn't learn the phonics - it's actually quite refreshing to be teaching phonics to DS and *finally* learning why some letter combos sound the way they do!

 

DH was also reading before K, but his father taught him and taught him phonics. With DS, while I have always been a very strong and advanced reader (even if I can't necessarily pronounce something aloud, I know what the words mean), I am absolutely teaching phonics!

Edited December 4, 2011 by Tigger

[Mergath]

I think many kids are able to just pick it up, but there's a difference between being able to read at all, and being able to read well. To read well, a child needs instruction.

 

And not all kids can pick up even the basics. I was one who just picked it up as a preschooler, while my brother always struggled, even with lessons. Exact same home and school environments, but vastly different results.

[Stacy in NJ]

Whole language does not equal absolutely no instruction as advocated by some of the unschoolers in that thread. I think these are really different approaches.

 

It uses read alouds, word walls, and discussions.

[Mrs Mungo]

I think most kids need to be taught to read or they will face deficiencies at some point.

[Chris in VA]

It uses read alouds, word walls, and discussions.

 

It also actually does do phonics, but they are phonics in context, and basically consist of "noticing" and pointing out sounds and patterns.

 

What some don't realize is that reading to a child IS instructing the child. Research shows a correlation, if not a causation, between frequent reading to a child and that child's likelihood of being an early reader. Now, I don't remember how frequent and how early, but it is instructive.

 

But, I know what is meant by the question.

 

Each of my kids were different in how they learned.

[EthiopianFood]

......"picked up" like walking or speaking? I was talking with an unschooling friend of mine today, and she sent me a link to this thread in which a number of the posters feel that reading is akin to walking, in that it can't be taught. It's an old thread, but it made me wonder.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Why did you post this?? It's like a bad car crash! :banghead: Must. Stop. Reading! :banghead:

[Lovin Learnin]

Two of my three taught themselves at 3. My youngest demonstrated that she could read the week after her 3rd birthday and was fluent before her 4th birthday. My third child learned with intensive phonics at ps and it took him awhile. He really wasn't fluent until 9. I do believe it depends on the child and their particular "wiring."

[Carpe]

With learning to talk kids can see and hear the words being formed every time someone speaks. The same is not true of reading. Unless one is conscious to read everything aloud, kids only see the words. And some parents don't show kids the book when reading to them, and some parents don't point out the words (I don't mean follow along with their finger, I mean simply acknowledging that there are words on the pages and that they mean something).

 

There is actually a book written about how to get your kids to "pick up" reading called Native Reading. It outlines ways to give kids the connections between letters and the sounds they make without actually teaching them to read, the idea being that they will pick it up like they pick up speech. The subtitle of the book is How To Teach Your Child To Read, Easily And Naturally, Before The Age Of Three (bolding mine)

 

IME I have to agree; if a kid is going to pick up reading (completely) on their own, they will do so very young. After that varying levels of intervention are required. Reading games like Starfall, Leapfrog phonics videos, explicit phonics instruction, flashcards, read-a-long books, or whatever. Some kids are going to need nothing more than a nudge toward a reading game, and some kids are going to need explicit phonics over a period of years. But either way you know before your kid is NINE that they're going to require some help with reading.

 

I thought I was pro-unschooling, but I don't get radical unschoolers at all. The kid is asking for help learning a vital skill are her mom is posting asking for tips on dealing with her DD's frustration. What on Earth?! I'd be frustrated too if I kept asking for help and someone refused every time.

[kiana]

 

I thought I was pro-unschooling, but I don't get radical unschoolers at all. The kid is asking for help learning a vital skill are her mom is posting asking for tips on dealing with her DD's frustration. What on Earth?! I'd be frustrated too if I kept asking for help and someone refused every time.

 

Yeah, no kidding.

 

I mean god****, even at university you can go to your professor's office hours and ask for clarification. And they're expecting an elementary child to teach herself alone?

[*Inna*]

I picked it up when I was 3 and never had any problems as a result. Until I had kids I thought it was a perfectly natural thing to pick up too. >> I think it just depends on the child really.

:iagree: I worked with my oldest, my middle one just picked it up. One day she got a book from the shelf - it was "Go, Dog, Go" and read the whole thing to me. I was baffled and thought she just memorized from me reading to her. I picked another book- she read it too. :001_huh:

[angela in ohio]

Most need to be taught to read explicitly, though there are a small percentage who can just "pick it up" (I have two of the latter and one of the former.)

 

Unfortunately, from my experience, you don't really see which kind you have until you already should have started phonics instruction. :D

 

I also think that many of those "just pick it up" dc can have trouble with spelling and reading higher level material later on. I've seen this with unschooler and relaxed homeschool friends. And by then, they have other things to learn and going back to do remedial phonics is time-consuming and at times a blow to the child's self esteem.

 

I'm so sad for the girl in that thread. I had a friend who unschooled, and her dd was so sad to be unable to do the math games her friends were doing for fun. She eventually learned the math on her own, but she never quite recovered her belief that she was smart enough.

Edited December 4, 2011 by angela in ohio

[milovany]

Most need to be taught to read explicitly, though there are a small percentage who can just "pick it up" (I have two of the latter and one of the former.)

 

This sentence makes no sense, LOL. (And I'm saying that in a humorous way, not a mean/unkind way). "Most" need to be taught explicitly, yet a full 2/3 of your kids just picked it up. I laugh because this is true of 2/3 of my kids so far, too. So I don't understand the "most need...." thought (not just yours, but overall).

[angela in ohio]

This sentence makes no sense, LOL. (And I'm saying that in a humorous way, not a mean/unkind way). "Most" need to be taught explicitly, yet a full 2/3 of your kids just picked it up. I laugh because this is true of 2/3 of my kids so far, too. So I don't understand the "most need...." thought (not just yours, but overall).

 

And this doesn't make sense to me. :D There's no way our six children are a large enough sample to prove anything about children in general.

Edited December 4, 2011 by angela in ohio

[Running the race]

My 2nd son learned to read just by being in the room with his older brother, but that still is being taught in a way.

[milovany]

And this doesn't make sense to me. :D There's no way our six children are a large enough sample to prove anything about children in general. I don't just look at my own dc and assume that is how it is, I look at the research.

 

I guess the train of my thought is that we don't know if "most need to be taught to read" because we don't let it go to see if they'll just pick it up in a less formal way (somewhat on their own) in time. I think you could say "most children are taught to read" but not that "most children need to be taught." Hope that makes sense.

[lailasmum]

My dd didn't pick it up naturally and struggled. We thought she would find reading easy because she was an early talker and very into books/language and words but just didn't happen for her. Dyspraxia runs in my family and we are pretty sure she is mildly affected, so ordering things doesn't come naturally to her and I suspect this is her issue. She always has to go at things her own way. She knew her alphabet for a long time. I finally used OPGTR and she learnt to read at about 6 1/2. She is 7 1/2 and reading the Secret Seven at the moment

 

My son on the other hand seems to just be picking it up at 3. He just gets it. He is only sounding out CVC words but seems to just understand how words work without really being told. I haven't taught him much other than letters and their sounds and will continue to not force it at the moment. He just seems to get that they fit together into words and can blend the sounds with out much effort, so he take the info and just puts it to use without being taught beyond the sounds.