Question about vaccines and autism

[amy g.]

My oldest child has a dx of classic autism. She has made some major strides, and can function pretty well if I am able to control many of the factors in her environment.

 

Dh has at least two siblings and one niece with autistic characteristics.

 

I feel like she was born this was, because moments after she was born, the nurses were saying, "I've never seen a baby do that before." there were other signs in her very first week.

 

I have 4 other children who are glaringly neurologically typical. They do not have even one or two questionable characteristics.

 

When my olderst was diagnosed, I stopped all vaccines for all of the kids.

 

That means Miss Bossy had one year of everything the doctor suggested and nothing since then and Miss Bossy is completely unvaccinated.

 

I'm not posting to stir up trouble, but there are so many people on this board whose opinions I respect.

 

Am I being silly not to vaccinate them? Worrying about their getting sick does keep me up at night. I have no reason to believe that vaccines played a part in my daughter's autism, yet it also seems that if it is the interaction between genetic and environmental influences, I should be as careful as I can with their environment.

 

Oh, I should just go clean the dining room and cook a turkey!

[momsquared]

I don't have a link, but all current a reliable research shows no correlation between autism and vaccines. I think it's a parent's choice. We did it, but we don't do flu shots or other "maintenance" type vaccinations as a family.

[Carrie12345]

My first born is on the spectrum, and now we do few to no vaccines for the younger kids, but NOT with any real belief that vaccines cause autism.

[SailorMom]

I think it is difficult to say anything 100% accurate here, becasue in my research, all of the "spectrum" disorders seem to be influenced by multiple causes (none of which point to vaccines - imho).

There is current research pointing to a genetic link, and in your case this looks to be a very strong possibility.

[ErinE]

All current research indicates no link between vaccines and autism, plus the original Lancet study showing a link was thoroughly discredited.

[Parker Martin]

all current a reliable research shows no correlation between autism and vaccines.

 

This.

[wtrmlnlabs]

I'm of the belief that vaccines can cause problems. Neither of my boys are vaccinated, nothing ever. It is truly a personal belief for anyone. I don't worry about my boys. Really, for the most part, unless the child has low immune levels or something like that, even getting the diseases isn't deadly. As OP said, I'm not trying to stir something up, just briefly giving my thoughts and something for OP to think about, hopefully keep from worrying. :)

[TheHomeScientist]

Am I being silly not to vaccinate them? Worrying about their getting sick does keep me up at night. I have no reason to believe that vaccines played a part in my daughter's autism, yet it also seems that if it is the interaction between genetic and environmental influences, I should be as careful as I can with their environment.

 

I wouldn't use the word "silly", but yes I think you're making a huge mistake not to vaccinate. There is absolutely no scientific basis for avoiding vaccination, and a huge amount of evidence that vaccination is beneficial, not just to your own children but to the community. Herd immunity is never more than partial, and vaccines are not always effective. The more unvaccinated people in a population, the more likely it is that the illness will take hold in that population, affecting not just unvaccinated individuals, but also those who were vaccinated but remain vulnerable.

 

I really sympathize with those parents whose children have been diagnosed ASD after being vaccinated. It's natural to look for something, anything, to blame. But blaming ASD on vaccination is a classis example of post hoc ergo propter hoc.

 

Please have your child vaccinated. You'll sleep better, and you'll also be doing the entire community a favor.

[laundrycrisis]

It is not a decision that has to be all or nothing and following anyone's schedule. If you want to vaccinate, you can go slowly and carefully, one a time 2-3 months apart, watching for any reactions. You can use supplements several weeks before and after the live virus vaccines (esp the MMR - we gave DS2 CLO capsules with the natural vitamin A included). Any vaccines that are not requirements or that you choose not to use can be skipped.

[chiguirre]

I'm in your shoes. When the boys were first diagnosed, my developmental pediatrician DID tell me not to vaccinate any further children to be on the safe side (of course, this was not in the US). We waited until dd was 4 and then she had the MMR, DTaP and Hep-A. A lot of the other vaccines they give to infants weren't necessary because she was older, we declined Hep B because I personally don't feel she's likely to be exposed as a typical kid and waited on the Chicken Pox hoping that she'll be exposed naturally and develop life long immunity.

 

Once a child is talking well and can communicate if they're having a bad reaction, I felt more comfortable giving a vaccine.

 

I hope you can come to a decision you're comfortable with.

[kathymuggle]

I do not vaccinate, for many reasons.

 

I believe autism is genetic plus environmental triggers. I seek to lessen environmental triggers. I am not convinced vaccines are an environmental trigger, but i am not convinced they aren't, either.

 

I would not vaccinate a child under 4. I cannot dismiss the many, many accounts I have read where parents say the child was fine and then received a shot. :sad: I know some of them are coincidental - but some may not be.

 

I would also look the number of people who actually get a VPD disease. Often it is very small.

 

The bottom line is: given your genetic predispostion to autism, I would wait on vaccines, until the child is 4 or so. There is very little risk to waiting - most diseases are not at all common - and some of the more common ones are not that scary anyways (chicken pox).

[pdalley]

My kids are fully vaccinated. Some were delayed. Some were spaced out. Knowing what I do now I would have started late and spread them out but because I feel there are too many vaccines at one time - not because of autism.

 

As I've said before - autism is in our family the result of genetics. Pure and simple. I had quirkier relatives before vaccines ever existed. We make Aspies.

[Tarreymere]

We followed a delayed vac schedule and really spaced them out with only one vac at a time and no multiple vacs. My kids didn't get the Hep B shot at all. None of the kids who were born during the time they were recommending the Rotavirus vac got that one either. The MMR we didn't have them get until they were 5 years old.

None of the kids had any reaction although I told any doctors that started to lecture me that one of the older kids had a reaction and that was why we wanted to go slowly.

So anyway, after age five my kids are mostly fully vaccinated, except for Hep B and that HPV shot. We wanted to be cautious but we did have worries about disease, so we chose what to us seemed a reasonable middle road.

[Tiramisu]

My oldest child has a dx of classic autism. She has made some major strides, and can function pretty well if I am able to control many of the factors in her environment.

 

Dh has at least two siblings and one niece with autistic characteristics.

 

I feel like she was born this was, because moments after she was born, the nurses were saying, "I've never seen a baby do that before." there were other signs in her very first week.

 

I have 4 other children who are glaringly neurologically typical. They do not have even one or two questionable characteristics.

 

When my olderst was diagnosed, I stopped all vaccines for all of the kids.

 

That means Miss Bossy had one year of everything the doctor suggested and nothing since then and Miss Bossy is completely unvaccinated.

 

I'm not posting to stir up trouble, but there are so many people on this board whose opinions I respect.

 

Am I being silly not to vaccinate them? Worrying about their getting sick does keep me up at night. I have no reason to believe that vaccines played a part in my daughter's autism, yet it also seems that if it is the interaction between genetic and environmental influences, I should be as careful as I can with their environment.

 

Oh, I should just go clean the dining room and cook a turkey!

 

Have you read about the Gut and Psychology Syndrome? The doctor who came up with this theory is a mother of an autistic child. She has developed a protocol to determine if/when it is safe to vaccinate to avoid neurological damage in dc that are susceptible. It can be used for any dc but, I think it's meant to be particularly useful for families who already have a dc with autism or related disorders. Her ideas are not so much based on the ingredients of the vaccine but the physical condition of the dc.

[Mergath]

Really, for the most part, unless the child has low immune levels or something like that, even getting the diseases isn't deadly.

 

I'm sorry, but that's just blatantly untrue. Perfectly healthy children die all the time from childhood diseases. Take a look at the death rates before vaccines were introduced.

[Mergath]

My dd is one that we know is genetically highly susceptible to autism. She has 16p11.2 deletion syndrome- the genetic abnormality that was referenced in that other autism post- and so has always had a one in three chance of being autistic. She's also fully vaccinated, following the recommended schedule. And at three and a half, she's completely nt.

 

In my opinion, the vaccine/autism link has been thoroughly disproved. Every single study they've done shows there is absolutely no link between the two.

[Quad Shot Academy]

We typically start around age 3 and do one shot at a time. You have to wait from 3 to 6 months between shots in a series, so it takes a while. It used to cost $40 a shot, times 4 kids, so we only did a couple a year. With Obama care, it is now free, so we did more shots this year. I weigh the risk of the shot against the treatability of the disease and the length of time the shot has been used. Here is the order we do them in:

 

Tetanus (not the one with P in it) 3 shot series

Polio 3 shot series

meningitis 1 shot (age 11)

MMR 2 shot series

----haven't done yet----

chicken pox

 

That is it; that is all we are doing. My oldest daughter has the best immune system and she has had the scariest reactions to the shots. I can't imagine what the reaction would have been like if she was a baby and had multiple shots at the same time.

 

I am considering getting Hib for the baby. My older kids all got the virus between the ages of 4-9 and it was pretty bad.

 

I think you have to be a pretty trusting person to believe the studies about vaccines and autism. I don't. I still think there is a middle of the road approach.

 

I think it is difficult for people to not be black and white in their thinking about shots. My kids that are 5-11 are getting the same dosage of the MMR as an infant would. They are also getting 1 shot that day, vs 5. The chances that they will react badly are much, much smaller. My kids have had Hib and whooping cough and even if a vaccine does have a reaction, I imagine it will be much smaller than what they went through with the real disease. Though, I will admit that I find myself wondering if the MMR series we just started is what triggered my daughter's anaphylaxis to cats. It is so difficult to know!

[Haiku]

we declined Hep B because I personally don't feel she's likely to be exposed as a typical kid

 

I hear this all the time, and I personally think it's a mistake to take this attitude. Hepatitis B is not just a sexually transmitted disease. It's approximately 100 times more infectious than HIV and can be transmitted through saliva, blood, and feces. There is no way you can tell the Hep B status of another child, so any time your child plays with other kids, the potential for transmission is there.

 

I know every parent gets to decide for themselves, but I honestly get the feeling that people are looking for reasons not to vaccinate, and use the idea that Hep B is a sexually transmitted disease as an excuse not to.

 

I have a kid with Hep B. They are out there.

 

Tara

[caedmyn]

We do not vaccinate, but it's not because I think vaccines cause autism (I don't). I'm not sure I believe that vaccines *never* cause or trigger ASDs, but I do believe in most cases ASDs are genetic.

 

If you don't feel comfortable with your decision not to vaccine, you might consider doing more research on the subject so that you can either be more comfortable with your decision, or choose to vaccinate to whatever extent would make you feel more comfortable.

[JFSinIL]

Our neuro* had us hold all further vaccines (except pertussis as he thought the chance of getting whooping cough higher than odds the vaccine would harm the kids) after he saw SillyAutismBoy at age 5. Since SAB responded to prednisone/Depakote Doc. believed his was (and still is) one of the autoimmune-type autisms (actually Landau-Kleffner Syndrome-variant but it is easier to tell folks autism than explain LKSV!!! ) When SAB was in his teens he resumed shots.

 

Note - all my kids have seen this neuro for one thing or another - we may have a genetic tendency to react poorly to ????

 

 

*Dr. Michael Chez, for anyone familiar with him. He left Illinois and is in California now.

[misidawnrn]

I guess I am of the thinking that I don't believe everything that BigPharma says. They say they are safe and the studies proving autism are discredited but I also think that BigPharma/US government do some pretty unethical things. I would rather take the risk with God made diseases than inject my kids with man made vaccines. My little DD was the reason I researched vaccines in the first place. Her birthmom has a son that is slow mentally (BM isn't very bright, either). I was concerned with giving her the best start in live that she could have. DH and I together decided that we wouldn't interfere with her brain development with vaccines. I don't know what she would have been like vaxxed but she is 2, can spell her name, recognizes the first letters of all of our names, M,D, O, A, T and can pick out her name letters as well. She can count to 10. I think she is pretty smart. I realize that part of that learning is the nature vs. nurture and BM's son is definately lacking in the nurture part from his mom.

 

Anyway, long story short...I am not risking learning disabilities, autism, etc with vaccines.

[momsquared]

I think parents can choose, but I do agree that we are creating a society of people susceptible to things that haven't been around in generations. I don't understand the motivation for that part.

 

My DS reacted to the chicken pox shot which is something that didn't exist a generation ago. He got a mild case of chicken pox. Because of that we don't flu shot. Dd and DS were fully vaccinated on schedule without issues.

 

I agree people are often looking for an "answer". I know it is hard to manage a child with a disability, but I am not sure avoiding something that could save their life is the answer.

[MrsMe]

I don't have a link, but all current a reliable research shows no correlation between autism and vaccines. I think it's a parent's choice. We did it, but we don't do flu shots or other "maintenance" type vaccinations as a family.

 

:iagree:exactly!!!! It's even found that flu shots don't make a difference either in not getting the flu except for older people or people with other issues; immune diseases. So we only do the basic child vaccines.

[Whereneverever]

We don't vaccinate, but not because of autism. I don't think that there is a good link.

[Leav97]

I hear this all the time, and I personally think it's a mistake to take this attitude. Hepatitis B is not just a sexually transmitted disease. It's approximately 100 times more infectious than HIV and can be transmitted through saliva, blood, and feces. There is no way you can tell the Hep B status of another child, so any time your child plays with other kids, the potential for transmission is there.

 

I know every parent gets to decide for themselves, but I honestly get the feeling that people are looking for reasons not to vaccinate, and use the idea that Hep B is a sexually transmitted disease as an excuse not to.

 

I have a kid with Hep B. They are out there.

 

Tara

 

And the younger a person is infected with Hep B the more likely they are to have life long complications.

 

We do one shot at a time mostly using the normally scheduled well child appts.

 

DTAP is the first shot we give at 2 months to start the protection against whooping cough.

[wtrmlnlabs]

I'm sorry, but that's just blatantly untrue. Perfectly healthy children die all the time from childhood diseases. Take a look at the death rates before vaccines were introduced.

 

 

Which is why I said I don't want to debate it.

 

I guess I am of the thinking that I don't believe everything that BigPharma says. They say they are safe and the studies proving autism are discredited but I also think that BigPharma/US government do some pretty unethical things. I would rather take the risk with God made diseases than inject my kids with man made vaccines.

 

Exactly. The "studies" are too dirty, too much hand holding between BigPharma and gov't. I'll stick with my knowledge and understanding from my research.

 

and I'm done:D

[Homemama2]

I'm actually reading a pretty interesting book right now called "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Children's Vaccinations." It's written by a doctor (Stephanie Cave). It is an interesting take because she is NOT against vaccines, but talks about how spacing vaccines out, not giving multiple shots at one time etc can help prevent adverse effects, (not just autism, it talks about autoimmune disorders among others.)

 

Here is a quote on the whole 'research' thing (p.25)

"Howard Urnovitz, Ph.D, a microbiologist and founder of the Chronic Illness Research Foundation in Berkeley, CA argues that the federal government keeps insisting that "there's no scientific evidence to prove vaccines cause chronic diseases, but they won't fund any research in that area either. If you don't look for something, you won't find it." This has a copyright of 2001, so I don't know what research has been done since then.

[Bluegoat]

My kids have pretty much had the normal vaccines at the normal times. We don't get flu shots (usually, we did get swine flu). I'm not sold on chicken pox. I'll wait to decide about HPV until my kids are older and there is a bit more research. I've also noticed that in Canada the schedule seems a bit different than in the US - they do not start as early.

 

I don't think there is any evidence of a link between vaccines and autism. The whole scare was basically falsified - so to me to stop vaccinating for that is as if my neighbour said he thought autism was related to pet dander so we avoid all animals. There are a billion things that could be a link, and why randomly choose one to avoid for absolutely no reason.

 

I do think there is reason to worry about NOT vaccinating. There have been increasing incidences of some illnesses that were thought to have disappeared. And then there are things like tetanus that will never disappear, and it is just so nasty if you get it.

[mom31257]

I don't vaccinate anymore, but it's because of problems in my family. My nephew has severe epilepsy that began the day of his 4 month shots. My sister was later able to find out that the lot number of his medication already had caused 2 deaths and 10 permanent disabilities but was still out on the market.

 

A few years later they found out he has mitochondrial disease and it's a type that his doctors say trauma in the body can trigger. They believe the bad vaccine caused enough trauma to trigger the disease. He is now 17 and developmentally about 5, and honestly has many autistic traits but's never been diagnosed with it.

 

Dd was fully vaccinated before Kindergarten, but has had nothing since. Ds was being immunized very slowly and had everything except the first MMR (15 months?). He's not had it or anything since.

 

I find myself wondering if I should do more shots, but honestly, I worry that they could have the same genetic condition. I am not anti-vaccination, but I do think they give too many vaccines for too many diseases and at far too early of an age.

[Mergath]

Which is why I said I don't want to debate it.

 

 

Sorry, but when someone makes a statement that is just not true, I'm going to point it out. If that annoys you, you might want to find a different medium in which to discuss this.

[Mrs Twain]

People are afraid of rare side effects of vaccines now because they have no experience seeing the actual diseases. I saw a child die of Tetanus. He was five years old, was unimmunized, and contracted tetanus through a small scratch on his leg. His parents had not even been aware of the scratch.

 

There are also pockets of measles reported in various locations sporadically. The number of measles cases will increase as the percentage of unvaccinated children increase. There is a fairly high rate of mortality among children who contract measles, and many children used to die from measles before we had a vaccine.

 

It used to be that there was a menigitis ward for children in all of the hospitals. Since the Hib vaccine, meningitis is so rare among children that there are no more meningitis wards in our country.

 

I think a lot of people will change their minds about vaccines once these diseases start to come back. To the OP, I would at least get your children vaccinated for Tetanus since they can acquire that through a contaminated wound.

 

I vaccinate my kids for everything that is recommended on the immuzation schedule, including flu. Flu, by the way, can also be serious, causing hospitalization and death, particularly when there are bad flu strains circulating. The flu vaccine is on average about 70% effective at preventing flu, which varies from year to year based on how good of a match the vaccine is with the actual flu viruses that are circulating each year.

 

Another thing you should remember is that babies are largely defenseless against these diseases before they are old enough to receive the vaccines and develop full immunity. If you child acquires any of these contagious diseases, he/she may give it to an innocent baby which may result in the baby being permanently disabled or dead.

 

Just some thoughts contrary to the current hysteria.

[pdalley]

Which is why I said I don't want to debate it.

 

 

 

Exactly. The "studies" are too dirty, too much hand holding between BigPharma and gov't. I'll stick with my knowledge and understanding from my research.

 

and I'm done:D

 

 

And Andrew Wakefield's debunked faked research was clean? :confused:

 

My grandmother was a nurse when polio and the like were rampant. She was a nurse for 45 years. It isn't just hype to sell vaccines.

 

I may vaccinate more slowly but I will vaccinate. I don't think choosing to vaccinate equals sheeple to 'Big Pharma'.

[StaceyinLA]

that I think there is a bigger picture.

 

Yes, diseases were horrible and people died. Then vaccines were created for those diseases. Then more diseases came about and people died. Then more vaccines were created for those diseases. Now more, new, fresh diseases are coming about, and we are vaccinating more and more and more. When will it end? The short answer: it won't.

 

We have much better medications in the world today to treat many of these diseases. However, our meat/dairy supplies have been so inundated with antibiotics for so many years that the diseases are getting stronger while our immune systems are getting weaker and our medications are becoming useless.

 

It is a vicious cycle, and one that HAS to stop.

 

There is NO WAY to protect every human being from every deadly disease known to man. We would have to get vaccines every day to cover every strain of every illness that COULD turn deadly. I'm sorry, but it's just not practical.

 

We need to go back to having some immune systems of our own that aren't tampered with and destroyed by, you guessed it, our GOVERNMENT, with its food/drug tampering. I'm sorry, but any government that will allow its citizens' food supply to be contaminated with the volume of drugs and hormones that ours does, is not one I will trust for the truth about our vaccines.

[Mommyof4ks]

Op if it keeps you up at night, then I would consider vaxing the kids. Personally I am dealing with this same debate over revaxing my son who had cancer. I do not think the stuff in the vax caused my son's cancer, but since one of the pieces to the puzzle seems to be a virus or bacteria of some kind, it could be that one of the viruses in the vax could trigger it. OTOH he could get the virus without having the vax and still trigger it again if in fact that played a role. Frustrating really!

 

The fact is we know the viruses for which vaccines are made can cause problems from scars left by CP, to sterilization from Rubella, to permenant physical disabilities from polio despite modern medicine to treat symptoms, and all of them carry the possibility of death which is why the vaxes were made to begin with. We don't really know the effects of vaccines on an individual child, because no matter how many studies are done or who says what all that matters is our child. When my son was going through cancer treatment people said how lucky we were that kids with his cancer have a 90% survival rate, but honestly his survival rate was 100% or 0% depending on how his body and the cancer responded

to the chemo, and the same could be true of vaxes if in fact odd things can happen when they are given to some kids. All of that to say that this is a tough choice, and in the end it comes down to what scares you the most. I am not worried about autism; we poisoned my son with chemo for over 3 years (22 rounds of that chemo were into his spine that leads directly to the brain), and he is the sharpest of my three kids despite the dismal outlook given by so many organizations that deal with kids after treatment I

do worry about triggering his cancer again, so I do get where you are coming from, but who is to say that the disease would not trigger the same issues.

:grouphug: as you decide.

 

I did not help at all really, but that is my story to let you know you are not alone.

Edited November 25, 2011 by dwkilburn1

[Spy Car]

There is no link between autism and vaccines. People who don't vaccinate are endangering the public health and risking the lives of their children and other people's children. Plain and simple.

 

Bill

Edited November 25, 2011 by Spy Car

[StaceyinLA]

there are those whose lives were permanently damaged after being vaccinated. Should those parents be shamed as well? The government has a vaccine injury compensation program for a reason. All vaccines are not safe all the time. Period.

 

There is no link between autism and vaccines. People who don't vaccinate are endangering the public health and risking the lives of their children. Plain and simple.

 

Bill

[jubilation]

Both my kids are fully vaccinated. The oldest is NT; the youngest is on the spectrum.

 

As a nurse, I have seen how scary sick a newborn with pertussis can be, and I feel that it is important that those of us who can get vaccinated do it, in order to protect vulnerable newborns and the immunocompromised.

[kathymuggle]

OP: If you are reconsidering vaccines, here is what I would do:

 

research each disease - the chances of getting it and its complication rate/who gets the complications

 

research each vaccine - its efficacy rate, track record on safety and adverse reaction rate. The adverse reaction rate is probably quite a bit higher than reported - some say only 1/10 adverse reactions are reported.

 

All of the above is available from the CDC

 

In many cases the adverse reaction rate from the vaccine is higher that the likelihood your child will get the disease and have an adverse reaction.

 

This will lead to concerns about herd immunity. Should you vaccinate your child to help prevent an outbreak? There are pros and cons on both sides - and once again - not all disease are created equal. Tetanus has no herd immunity issues, for example. It is not contagious at all.

 

Good luck!

[kathymuggle]

nm - argumentative.

Edited November 25, 2011 by kathymuggle

[celticmom]

I guess I am of the thinking that I don't believe everything that BigPharma says. They say they are safe and the studies proving autism are discredited but I also think that BigPharma/US government do some pretty unethical things. I would rather take the risk with God made diseases than inject my kids with man made vaccines.

 

Anyway, long story short...I am not risking learning disabilities, autism, etc with vaccines.

 

:iagree:

[celticmom]

that I think there is a bigger picture.

 

Yes, diseases were horrible and people died. Then vaccines were created for those diseases. Then more diseases came about and people died. Then more vaccines were created for those diseases. Now more, new, fresh diseases are coming about, and we are vaccinating more and more and more. When will it end? The short answer: it won't.

 

We have much better medications in the world today to treat many of these diseases. However, our meat/dairy supplies have been so inundated with antibiotics for so many years that the diseases are getting stronger while our immune systems are getting weaker and our medications are becoming useless.

 

It is a vicious cycle, and one that HAS to stop.

 

There is NO WAY to protect every human being from every deadly disease known to man. We would have to get vaccines every day to cover every strain of every illness that COULD turn deadly. I'm sorry, but it's just not practical.

 

We need to go back to having some immune systems of our own that aren't tampered with and destroyed by, you guessed it, our GOVERNMENT, with its food/drug tampering. I'm sorry, but any government that will allow its citizens' food supply to be contaminated with the volume of drugs and hormones that ours does, is not one I will trust for the truth about our vaccines.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[ChocolateReignRemix]

that I think there is a bigger picture.

 

Yes, diseases were horrible and people died. Then vaccines were created for those diseases. Then more diseases came about and people died. Then more vaccines were created for those diseases. Now more, new, fresh diseases are coming about, and we are vaccinating more and more and more. When will it end? The short answer: it won't.

 

Can you please list the "new, fresh diseases" that are appearing due to vaccinations and/or the over use of medications?

[hsmom2011]

n/m

[Ester Maria]

I would not like to insinuate anything rude, but I honestly do not know anyone who does not vaccinate specifically because of fear of autism and has the advanced medical knoweldge. At best, I know people who put their children on a somewhat delayed schedule and are extra careful as to potential allergic reactions to some components of some vaccines - but it is only people like Agatha down the street, with no higher medical knowledge, who read something about autism somewhere and are a bit into Big Pharma conspiracies, who are not vaccinating their children at all. Meanwhile all of the people who I know INSIDE that Evil Big Pharma, who are in a biomedical field in general, are normally vaccinating their children. :confused:

 

Pharmacists are people like everybody else. They have kids like everybody else. I AM inherently suspicious of anyone trying to sell me something they personally would not use, and I think that is a reasonable attitude and a reasonable suspicion, but the ironic fact is the pharmacists' children, the physicians' children, etc., ARE vaccinated, from what I have observed (and I get to observe a lot, DH is there with them professionally). So, the people who KNOW what gets into those vaccines, who KNOW the risks and the benefits of vaccines, who KNOW the biochemistry behind it, still vaccinate their own children. They do not just preach it to the crowds, they actually practice what they preach when their own children's lives are at stake when it comes to vaccines.

Yet the crowds have this absurd idea of immense dangers of vaccines. Nobody denies that whenever you inject any chemical substance into any body, there is a possibility of an adverse reaction, but these things have been SO studied, the cases of adverse reactions have been SO studied, the additional precautions have been designed and some additional components replaced for potential allergic reactions, and overall the whole thing has been SO scrutinized over the years, that it would really be absurd for a whole generation of specialists to continue to vaccinate their own children if they knew the supposed risks highly outweighted the supposed benefits.

 

From what I understand as a layperson, the supposed "link" between autism and vaccines is a statistical issue. You will have a certain number of children who will develop normally and then start regressing about that age (whether vaccinated or not). Statistically, for some of them it will coincide with the vaccine schedule. It is also expectable that the media will make a sensational fuss about it.

Edited November 25, 2011 by Ester Maria

[LittleIzumi]

Can you please list the "new, fresh diseases" that are appearing due to vaccinations and/or the over use of medications?

 

The diseases vaccinated for are morphing into other strains, like vaccine-resistant bird flu (H5N1), new strains of Bordatella pertussis, etc. The new strains of infectious disease from overuse of antibiotics include things like MSRA.

[KatieH]

I wouldn't use the word "silly", but yes I think you're making a huge mistake not to vaccinate. There is absolutely no scientific basis for avoiding vaccination, and a huge amount of evidence that vaccination is beneficial, not just to your own children but to the community. Herd immunity is never more than partial, and vaccines are not always effective. The more unvaccinated people in a population, the more likely it is that the illness will take hold in that population, affecting not just unvaccinated individuals, but also those who were vaccinated but remain vulnerable.

 

I really sympathize with those parents whose children have been diagnosed ASD after being vaccinated. It's natural to look for something, anything, to blame. But blaming ASD on vaccination is a classis example of post hoc ergo propter hoc.

 

Please have your child vaccinated. You'll sleep better, and you'll also be doing the entire community a favor.

 

:iagree:

[butterflymommy]

Am I being silly not to vaccinate them? Worrying about their getting sick does keep me up at night. I have no reason to believe that vaccines played a part in my daughter's autism, yet it also seems that if it is the interaction between genetic and environmental influences, I should be as careful as I can with their environment.

 

My oldest was dx'ed pdd-nos, severe speech delay, no words until he was 5, no sentences until he was 7. I stopped vaccinating him and all my kids after the diagnosis. Five kids later and I get another diagnosis for my then youngest (and unvaccinated) daughter-- not only that but she was much more impaired than my son. Around the same time, a different daughter developed severe asthma and was in ICU from a common cold. So at that point I decided I was being silly not to vaccinate since my daughter's problems could not possibly have been caused by vaccines, and we had a medically fragile child in the house. I've since had another daughter with severe asthma so those two get their flu shots each year and everyone is caught up on their shots.

 

btw some people believe vaccines contribute to asthma rates too... clearly in my family that is not the case.

 

All of my kids have so-called "shadow traits" of autism, whether it is weird stimming, OCD type issues, obsessive interests, but only 2 are impaired by it.

[Bluegoat]

There are so many conflicting articles about what might be linked to Autism, it's hard to say if vaccines are to blame or not. My personal opinion about many (not all) vaccines, is that the benefits far outweigh the risks. I have 2 on the spectrum, and sometimes wonder if vaccines are to blame. I believe there also has to be a genetic component already there. Honestly, I wouldn't do anything differently, except maybe delay/ spread out the vaccines. I'm not sure I like how they are combining the vaccines today.

 

There aren't really though. The researcher who made a link with autism has been thoroughly discredited. Not only was it impossible to replicate his findings, it was discovered that he had a serious conflict of interest and had simply falsified information. That is, he stood to make money from it and he lied.

[kathymuggle]

I would not like to insinuate anything rude, but I honestly do not know anyone who does not vaccinate specifically because of fear of autism and has the advanced medical knoweldge. At best, I know people who put their children on a somewhat delayed schedule and are extra careful as to potential allergic reactions to some components of some vaccines - but it is only people like Agatha down the street, with no higher medical knowledge, who read something about autism somewhere and are a bit into Big Pharma conspiracies, who are not vaccinating their children at all. Meanwhile all of the people who I know INSIDE that Evil Big Pharma, who are in a biomedical field in general, are normally vaccinating their children. :confused:

 

 

 

Of course they do. They are educated in such a way that I would expect they would accept the paradigm. It would be really hard to sleep at night if they they were asking parents to do something they were unwilling to do.

 

I also think it is fair to say it would be career suicide to come out publicly against or even questioning vaccine.

 

I also think the "Agatha down the street" thing is a little condescending. Most people I know who decide not to vaccinate or delay/selective vaccinate spend many, many hours researching. There are a number of parents on this forum (many of whom are quite educated, according to a recent poll) who do not vaccinate. Do you really think they just read "something, somewhere" before coming to their decision?

 

I don't know anyone who avoid vaccines only due to fears of autism. For many it does not even crack the top reasons.

Edited November 25, 2011 by kathymuggle

[Bluegoat]

The diseases vaccinated for are morphing into other strains, like vaccine-resistant bird flu (H5N1), new strains of Bordatella pertussis, etc. The new strains of infectious disease from overuse of antibiotics include things like MSRA.

 

Vaccinating doesn't cause these things to mutate, they have always done that. There are quite likely things we are doing we shouldn't, though using grossly excessive amounts of antibiotics doesn't seem likely to be affecting the viruses we usually vaccinate against, and factory farming practices are not affected by our using vaccines.