A question about belief in how God works and the nature of prayer

[melissel]

This has been banging around in my head for a little while, and I'm still not entirely sure I even have my questions straightened out, so please bear with my incoherence and forgive me if accidentally offend. I don't mean to, truly.

 

Do you believe God answers prayers? Do you believe he (or she, or however you may refer to an almighty consciousness) pays attention and can directly intervene when he so chooses? If you do, why do you suppose he answers some prayers and not others? Small prayers and not big ones? Why do some families full of kind and caring people seem to have a great deal of misfortune that they don't deserve while others have good fortune that they don't seem to deserve?

 

TIA for your thoughts on this. I don't mind if you ramble on :D

[Julie in Austin]

I believe God answers prayers. I believe there are a variety of reasons why we might not get the answer we want, including but not limited to:

 

(1) God doesn't force people to do things, so if I pray for my husband to get a new job, for example, God won't force someone to hire him.

 

(2) Sometimes God knows that the thing we are asking for is not in our best interest, analogous to a child asking for our permission to jump off a building for fun.

 

(3) Sometimes our faith is tested by lack of answer and/or answer we don't like.

 

(4) Sometimes life in a fallen world just stinks, in ways God can't/won't/doesn't choose to fix.

 

(5) Sometimes we just don't know.

 

But I have faith that God _hears_ every single prayer, even if the answer isn't immediate and/or what we wanted.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I believe God answers prayers. I believe there are a variety of reasons why we might not get the answer we want, including but not limited to:

 

(1) God doesn't force people to do things, so if I pray for my husband to get a new job, for example, God won't force someone to hire him.

 

(2) Sometimes God knows that the thing we are asking for is not in our best interest, analogous to a child asking for our permission to jump off a building for fun.

 

(3) Sometimes our faith is tested by lack of answer and/or answer we don't like.

 

(4) Sometimes life in a fallen world just stinks, in ways God can't/won't/doesn't choose to fix.

 

(5) Sometimes we just don't know.

 

But I have faith that God _hears_ every single prayer, even if the answer isn't immediate and/or what we wanted.

 

:iagree:

 

I will add that God usually does not choose to intervene spectacularly but works through other people, whether it is a doctor, a caring friend etc. Bad things aren't always the result of being "just desserts". Sometimes they are a means of growth.

[Beimao]

I do believe that God does hear and notice each of our prayers. We, as His children, are vastly important to Him. But why doesn't He answer every prayer? I believe it is because we are here to be tested and learn and to grow, because He wants us to become all we can be. If God, being God, knows all, then He will know what is best for us, what will help us grow the most, not always what will make us happy in the moment. He wants nothing more than to bless us, but some blessing to be more eternal in nature. Blessing do not always come immediately, but require us to exercise our faith.

[momma aimee]

if you get a chance read: http://www.amazon.com/Intercessory-Prayer-Prayers-Heaven-Earth/dp/0830745165/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1318367132&sr=8-3

 

Intercessory Prayer: How God Can Use Your Prayers to Move Heaven and Earth

 

by Dutch Sheets.

 

It is a very clear, imo, explanation of the the power of pray in His plan.

[justamouse]

tagging this for later-I have to git goin' but I want to answer.

 

:grouphug:

[LidiyaDawn]

 

Do you believe God answers prayers? Do you believe he (or she, or however you may refer to an almighty consciousness) pays attention and can directly intervene when he so chooses? If you do, why do you suppose he answers some prayers and not others? Small prayers and not big ones? Why do some families full of kind and caring people seem to have a great deal of misfortune that they don't deserve while others have good fortune that they don't seem to deserve?

 

 

One of the last things to push me back away from Christianity was realizing that it didn't make any sense to have a God who would help *this* person find her missing car keys and let *that* person's baby die.

 

[right around the time I was asking some big questions of my own, a family lost their 14 month old to some kind of asthma type thing..]

 

It just.. doesn't make sense. (and neither do all of the explanations that involve "well, God works in mysterious ways" and stuff.)

[QueenieReighn]

I agree with many things already written and I would like to add some things. God gave free will so that we can have a real relationship with him instead of a puppet relationship. This means that bad things can happen due to choices that people make and God does not change their minds for them because then they would not be having free will. Also, God knows everything and we don't, so he can see many things that we don't yet understand and how it will work out so even though something doesn't make sense, it would if we knew all the other parts to the puzzle. For instance, when my husband lost his job, I thought it was a horrible thing. Turned out that it was just what needed to happen and it really changed our whole lives for the better. I couldn't see that at the time though, but I really think it's what needed to happen for change to occur. Sometimes that result is much longer in the coming so we don't know why something happened for a very long time, but I'm sure there is always a purpose. This world is not perfect, but God's plans are and he does care for us. It is just like us listening to our children except more so. We are always listening to them and working for their good, but they don't always understand that and they make some bad choices, but even then, we do our best to turn bad to good and do the best for them.

[FiveOaksAcademy]

I believe God answers prayers. I believe there are a variety of reasons why we might not get the answer we want, including but not limited to:

 

(1) God doesn't force people to do things, so if I pray for my husband to get a new job, for example, God won't force someone to hire him.

 

(2) Sometimes God knows that the thing we are asking for is not in our best interest, analogous to a child asking for our permission to jump off a building for fun.

 

(3) Sometimes our faith is tested by lack of answer and/or answer we don't like.

 

(4) Sometimes life in a fallen world just stinks, in ways God can't/won't/doesn't choose to fix.

 

(5) Sometimes we just don't know.

 

But I have faith that God _hears_ every single prayer, even if the answer isn't immediate and/or what we wanted.

 

:iagree: I've had God radically answer some prayers while there are things that I still pray over to this day. Sometimes I'm like that neighbor in the Bible who repeatedly beats on the door at midnight for a loaf of bread. In my mind I imagine He just finally wants me to hush about it already. :lol: I think He has a purpose in those prayer we keep going back to. There have been times where He has answered a prayer in His timing, and the whole situation resulted in a deeper understanding, deeper answer than I would have gotten had He answered it immediately.

 

I have had Him wake me from a deep sleep to intervene for someone, no reason that I would have to be face down for that person but doing it anyway. THOSE are the prayers that I see Him radically answer...the ones He led me to in the first place. I've had Him warn me in prayer over issues for my children, issues for their friends, etc., then lead me to scriptures and actions based on my prayers. When we have open ears and hearts and a heart for His Word, He knows it and will lead us. I don't think it is always perfect and packaged up beautifully. There is pain and heartache and there are humbling experiences. And above all, there is no method or formula...God is way too big for that!!!

 

Also, if my main goal is to go to Him to get something, I'm missing the best part. HE is the goal in prayer...not the gifts He gives but Himself!!

Edited October 11, 2011 by FiveOaksAcademy

[Heather in Neverland]

The nature of prayer is communion with God.

Prayers reflect what we believe about God. I've stopped telling God what He ought to be doing and have started asking for His mercy, reflecting that His love for me and those I love is better than my own.

 

A Catholic saint, Maximillian Kolbe, who offered his life in stead of another doomed to the Nazi gas chamber, said that God offers us each what we need to bring ourselves in closer relation to Him. For some, that is a feast of milk and honey; for others, it is the dry crust of bread. What this means to me is that I should stop asking for the obvious request--milk and honey--and instead be asking for the union with God that He will give me if I let Him...regardless of whether I eat dry crusts the rest of my days.

 

In Orthodoxy, the definition of a theologian is "one who prays." It's not about what you know; it's WHO you know. :0)

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[happygrrl]

The nature of prayer is communion with God.

Prayers reflect what we believe about God. I've stopped telling God what He ought to be doing and have started asking for His mercy, reflecting that His love for me and those I love is better than my own.

 

A Catholic saint, Maximillian Kolbe, who offered his life in stead of another doomed to the Nazi gas chamber, said that God offers us each what we need to bring ourselves in closer relation to Him. For some, that is a feast of milk and honey; for others, it is the dry crust of bread. What this means to me is that I should stop asking for the obvious request--milk and honey--and instead be asking for the union with God that He will give me if I let Him...regardless of whether I eat dry crusts the rest of my days.

 

In Orthodoxy, the definition of a theologian is "one who prays." It's not about what you know; it's WHO you know. :0)

 

Thank you, Patty Joanna, that was well spoken.

Once when I was in high school I ran the wrong way down the BB court, thinking I was doing a great job! So speedy! :D I have learned that much of my life has been like that; good effort-wrong goal. How much time have I wasted telling God, or whoever, or whatever, what was needed in a situation?

Edited October 11, 2011 by happygrrl

[milovany]

The gist of my prayers to the Trinity seem to have come down to, "Have mercy on me, and Thy will be done." After years of thinking I did, I realize now that I don't know what's best. After years of thinking I did, I realize now I don't know what I really need. But I do trust Him to figure that out for me.

Edited October 11, 2011 by milovaný

[ForeverFamily]

This has been banging around in my head for a little while, and I'm still not entirely sure I even have my questions straightened out, so please bear with my incoherence and forgive me if accidentally offend. I don't mean to, truly.

 

Do you believe God answers prayers? Do you believe he (or she, or however you may refer to an almighty consciousness) pays attention and can directly intervene when he so chooses? If you do, why do you suppose he answers some prayers and not others? Small prayers and not big ones? Why do some families full of kind and caring people seem to have a great deal of misfortune that they don't deserve while others have good fortune that they don't seem to deserve?

TIA for your thoughts on this. I don't mind if you ramble on

 

Just remember you gave permission!:D

 

Yes, I believe that God answers our prayers. Yes, I believe that God pays attention. I think he knows each and every person who has ever lived, is currently living, and all those who are yet to be born. I think he loves each of us and knows everything about us. I believe that he is our perfect Father in Heaven and we are his children. As far as prayer goes, I believe that he hears all of our prayers. And I believe that he answers all of our prayers. However, our timing is not always his timing, and our ways are not always his ways. What I mean by that is he may not always answer our prayers the way we want him to or when we want him to. Just like a child may ask for a cookie before dinner, but the loving parent knows that the child will get more nutritional value from his/her dinner and therefore makes the child wait until after dinner. And that cookie is only given if the child eats his/her dinner. I think he has a perfect knowledge of what we need, when we need it, and whether or not our prayers are sincere.

Now to address the question on why bad things happen to good people and good things sometimes happen to those that don't seem to deserve it.

 

I believe our time here on earth is a test. I believe that we are given challenges for our benefit. A child cannot progress in their education if they are not continually challenged and pushed further academically. They would stand still if not regress, losing what the knowledge they have gained. We cannot grow spiritually if we are not challenged and come upon stumbling blocks in our lives. And isn't that the whole point of this life, to develop a better relationship with God, and a better understanding of spiritual matters? I believe it is, I don't think the reason we were sent here is to play and party! So again this comes back to the fact that we are not always given what we ask for, but I think we are always given what we need. Just like broccoli may not be as tasty as that cookie, but a wise parent knows that it is more beneficial. So for some families/individuals a trial may be exactly what they need to grow spiritually.

 

The other part of it is we are all given agency to choose our own actions. I believe that certain blessings are given when certain laws are obeyed. Or certain consequences follow when certain laws are disobeyed. Our actions whether good or bad often directly or indirectly effect others. For example, we can benefit from the kindness of others, but we can also be harmed from the unkindness of others. Some may interpret this as God loving some more than others, but this is not the case. The best explanation I have seen of this concept came from a talk given by Dallin H. Oaks (from his talk "Love and Law")....

 

""Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?†the Apostle Paul asked. Not tribulation, not persecution, not peril or the sword (see Romans 8:35). “For I am persuaded,†he concluded, “that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, … nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God†(verses 38–39).

There is no greater evidence of the infinite power and perfection of God’s love than is declared by the Apostle John: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son†(John 3:16). Another Apostle wrote that God “spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all†(Romans 8:32). Think how it must have grieved our Heavenly Father to send His Son to endure incomprehensible suffering for our sins. That is the greatest evidence of His love for each of us!

God’s love for His children is an eternal reality, but why does He love us so much, and why do we desire that love? The answer is found in the relationship between God’s love and His laws.

Some seem to value God’s love because of their hope that His love is so great and so unconditional that it will mercifully excuse them from obeying His laws. In contrast, those who understand God’s plan for His children know that God’s laws are invariable, which is another great evidence of His love for His children. Mercy cannot rob justice,2 and those who obtain mercy are “they who have kept the covenant and observed the commandment†(D&C 54:6)......

God’s love is so perfect that He lovingly requires us to obey His commandments because He knows that only through obedience to His laws can we become perfect, as He is. For this reason, God’s anger and His wrath are not a contradiction of His love but an evidence of His love. Every parent knows that you can love a child totally and completely while still being creatively angry and disappointed at that child’s self-defeating behavior.

The love of God is so universal that His perfect plan bestows many gifts on all of His children, even those who disobey His laws. ......As Jesus taught, our Heavenly Father “maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust†(Matthew 5:45).......

God’s choicest blessings are clearly contingent upon obedience to God’s laws and commandments. ......

This great principle helps us understand the why of many things, like justice and mercy balanced by the Atonement. It also explains why God will not forestall the exercise of agency by His children. Agency—our power to choose—is fundamental to the gospel plan that brings us to earth. God does not intervene to forestall the consequences of some persons’ choices in order to protect the well-being of other persons—even when they kill, injure, or oppress one another—for this would destroy His plan for our eternal progress.8 He will bless us to endure the consequences of others’ choices, but He will not prevent those choices.9" "

 

To read the whole talk go here

I hope that made some sense. Sorry my explanation was so long.

[HRAAB]

The nature of prayer is communion with God.

Prayers reflect what we believe about God. I've stopped telling God what He ought to be doing and have started asking for His mercy, reflecting that His love for me and those I love is better than my own.

 

A Catholic saint, Maximillian Kolbe, who offered his life in stead of another doomed to the Nazi gas chamber, said that God offers us each what we need to bring ourselves in closer relation to Him. For some, that is a feast of milk and honey; for others, it is the dry crust of bread. What this means to me is that I should stop asking for the obvious request--milk and honey--and instead be asking for the union with God that He will give me if I let Him...regardless of whether I eat dry crusts the rest of my days.

 

In Orthodoxy, the definition of a theologian is "one who prays." It's not about what you know; it's WHO you know. :0)

 

:iagree:

[keptwoman]

One of the last things to push me back away from Christianity was realizing that it didn't make any sense to have a God who would help *this* person find her missing car keys and let *that* person's baby die.

 

[right around the time I was asking some big questions of my own, a family lost their 14 month old to some kind of asthma type thing..]

 

It just.. doesn't make sense. (and neither do all of the explanations that involve "well, God works in mysterious ways" and stuff.)

:iagree: So in summary, no I don't believe that there is a being that answers prayer. There is no logic at all to the losses that some people face, it's just life.

[Marylou]

One of the last things to push me back away from Christianity was realizing that it didn't make any sense to have a God who would help *this* person find her missing car keys and let *that* person's baby die.

 

[right around the time I was asking some big questions of my own, a family lost their 14 month old to some kind of asthma type thing..]

 

It just.. doesn't make sense. (and neither do all of the explanations that involve "well, God works in mysterious ways" and stuff.)

 

 

But how do you know God helped someone find keys?

[twoforjoy]

I'm grading papers (and surfing the web to keep myself sane while I do it!) so I don't have the mental energy for a long answer, but I do want to recommend Marjorie Suchocki's In God's Presence. It is without a doubt the most thought-provoking, convincing, and powerful book on prayer I've ever read. Intercessory prayer never made any sense to me at all before I read the book. The traditional model of intercessory prayer still doesn't, but Suchocki talks about prayer from a process perspective (there's a brief introduction to process theology in the book) and it really, really made sense to and resonated with me.

[LidiyaDawn]

But how do you know God helped someone find keys?

 

I could have used any "small thing" as an example.. Car keys, good deals, no traffic, money for swim lessons, cake to turn out right, no rain on their wedding day.. whatever. The people themselves say that they prayed about X and God helped them.

[justamouse]

What PJ said. :D

[dangermom]

Good answers have already been given, and I don't have a ton to add to them. I do believe God answers prayers--He's answered many of mine--but not always (maybe hardly ever) in the way that we'd like. Sometimes the answer is no, I love you, but you have to live through this.

 

Why do some families full of kind and caring people seem to have a great deal of misfortune that they don't deserve while others have good fortune that they don't seem to deserve?

They just do. (Helpful, right?) Many of the most wonderful and righteous and Christ-like people I know have gone through or are going through incredibly difficult things. Lots of others seem to have it easy, though we never know what others are going through, so we can't really judge. And I'm pretty sure that wealth or easy living is not always a blessing; sometimes it's a trial. So many people stumble and lose faith through easy living and pride.

 

We've had an awful time the last few years. I would rather not have had those difficulties, and I sure hope they're over. But OTOH I'm probably more 'refined' as a result; I certainly learned a lot. Maybe it's what we needed. Guess I won't know for a while.

[NicAnn]

I believe that prayer is primarily for establishing a relationship with God. I think God "answers" prayers, but He does not for those who don't help themselves. So if I pray to stop drinking, but am constantly putting myself in a place where I'm being served alcohol, God sees this and is less likely to help. I also think God answers prayers by filling those with His Holy Spirit...giving them the strength to help themselves. And He may not answer them in the way we expect.

[JenniferB]

What PJ said. Lord have mercy.

[lmrich]

I think of God as being our father. In the beginning he treated his children as infants; he was always messing around in their lives. In the beginning he was interferring, always coming down here and telling his children what to do. He sent Jesus to show us how much He loved us. It is critical to realize the sacrifice that He sent His son, not Himself. It would have been far easier to sacrifice Himself rather than His son. Can you actually imagine allowing your son to be killed?!? and you could have prevented it?!!! God is powerful. God is almighty. He loves you; he has proved this. He can answer you prayers. OR He can let life play out... In my opinion He is like my husband's grandmother. She knows life; she is wise BUT she doesn't stick her nose in our business, if we ask her for help, she helps. She is there for us; she loves us; she is kind.

 

So does God answer our prayers. Ultimately - yes. But remember this life on earth is not the whole deal; what waits for us is life eternal. This is just a waiting room. You may be waiting in a quiet air conditioned room or you may be seated next to a screaming child in a hard chair in sweltering heat. BUT you are waiting for eternal peace.

 

So those are my rambles on the topic. Good luck in your pondering.

[Haiku]

One of the last things to push me back away from Christianity was realizing that it didn't make any sense to have a God who would help *this* person find her missing car keys and let *that* person's baby die.

 

[right around the time I was asking some big questions of my own, a family lost their 14 month old to some kind of asthma type thing..]

 

It just.. doesn't make sense. (and neither do all of the explanations that involve "well, God works in mysterious ways" and stuff.)

 

One of the reasons that I never became Christian (despite the best efforts of people too numerous to mention or count who tried to convince me to accept Christ) is that the whole prayer idea never made sense to me.

 

I was once in a weird and, looking back on it, horrifying conversation with a woman who adopted a child who was diagnosed with the same chronic, life-threatening (and currently incurable) condition my dd has. When the child arrived from overseas, it was found that she did not, in fact, have this condition. The woman who adopted her spent quite some time explaining to me how god had answered their prayers by healing their child. She was completely unwilling to even consider the idea that her dd had been misdiagnosed and had never, in fact, had the condition. Although she did not come right out and say it, she strongly implied that, were I Christian and were I to pray hard enough, god would "heal" my child as well. Um ... sure.

 

My dh and I were out walking one night when we met a couple who were interviewing and videotaping people for some sort of church video they were making. They asked us questions about our religious beliefs and about why we are not Christian. During our discussion, we mentioned our chronically ill dd. They asked if they could pray with us, and they asked god to cure our child. They gave us a card with their phone number and asked us to call them "when" our child was cured. Surprisingly, she's not cured, even though this occurred two years ago and they assured us that god could and would heal our dd.

 

Ok, either god hates our dd or prayer doesn't really work. Because what kind of a god would keep a child chronically ill and suffering? Oh, I guess one who works in mysterious ways?

 

Tara

[sewingmama]

It's funny - I just asked my DH the same question the other day. His answer to me is that what might seem small to us is something that profoundly affects the other persons life forever. For eg. I had just read a story about a kid who lost $5 and prayed to find it. He did get it back and the kid was filled with a profound sense that God really cared for him even to granting this tiny request of his. His faith grew until as an older man he is now a very influencial religious leader. So God answering that seemingly insignificant prayer influenced the faith and life path of a future leader.

 

Another thing that I came across in my search for an answer was this sentiment " When God answers a prayer it allows that persons faith to be strengthened but when God doesn't answer a prayer he is allowing that persons faith to become perfected".

 

And one last thing - God wants us to subject our will to his. If he was to answer our prayers in the way we wanted him too every single time then we would be the masters of our lives and not him - it would be little more then wish granting. By not answering all of our prayers God allows us to learn to demonstrate trust in him by saying " I really want X Lord but THY WILL BE DONE". By not recieving an answer we are forced to trust that God has a reason and a better plan for us then the one we wish for or choose and gives us a chanve to show acceptance of his will.

 

HTH

[Mimm]

I've struggled with this a lot, going through long periods of time where I wasn't talking to God because I felt it was pointless. Eventually I started to refine my ideas about what prayer is for. No, I don't think God necessarily answers certain types of prayers.

 

"God, help my find my keys!"

 

This is the type of prayer I don't believe God answers. You still find your keys, but atheists find their keys too. Chances are, eventually they just turn up. You know, because you kept looking for them. :p People like to attribute any little coincidence to God's hand in their lives.

 

I also don't think God answers prayers about directions you should go through your life. I don't think God has a perfect road map planned out for our lives and we have to spend a bunch of time praying and reading the Bible to decipher it. And oops, you messed up. You went to the wrong college, where you met the wrong spouse, and now your kids are all wrong, because they have the wrong parents... The churches and youth groups I attended growing up told us this, over and over. That God had the perfect person picked out for us to marry. This was part of the whole "don't have sex" speech. And even while I agreed with abstinence, I thought the whole idea was ludicrous. So if I marry the wrong person, I will have stolen someone else's perfect mate, and then my perfect mate will be out there, alone, forced to marry someone else, who of course, isn't his perfect mate but someone else's. :001_huh:

 

Anyway, that whole tangent to say that if God had this whole perfect plan for our lives, I simply don't believe he would make it so hard to figure out. Unless you want to believe that God is totally sadistic (which I don't). I remember being a teen and praying and praying for some kind of divine direction, and never really getting it. It was pretty damaging, and I wish someone had just pulled me aside and said "Hey, God just wants you to make the best decisions you can for your life."

 

I've had to redefine what I think prayer is for, and Patty summed it up pretty well. Prayer is for us to spend time with God. I think God does answer certain types of prayers. When we pray for his grace to extend to other people in our lives, pray for wisdom to make the right decisions, pray for peace through a difficult situation, pray for the strength to forgive yet again and pray for patience so we don't choke our kids... ;) These are the prayers that I think God hears and answers.

[justamouse]

Tara, I'm really, really sorry all that happened to you. I can see why you're totally turned off, I would be, too.

[gardenmom5]

Do you believe God answers prayers? Do you believe he (or she, or however you may refer to an almighty consciousness) pays attention and can directly intervene when he so chooses? If you do, why do you suppose he answers some prayers and not others? Small prayers and not big ones? Why do some families full of kind and caring people seem to have a great deal of misfortune that they don't deserve while others have good fortune that they don't seem to deserve?

 

:D

 

I'm absolutely convinced God answers prayers, and not just because there have been times I've had dramatic answers in my life. there have also been times I've prayed and there has been no answer. times I've prayed and there has been nothing but the peaceful assurance God is there watching. I've had times I've wondered what am I doing wrong that I'm not getting an answer. (He was watching, just wanted to see if I would perserve in doing what I believed to be was right when I felt I was by myself. Parents do that sort of thing too.). Sometimes the answer was to just hold me up when I couldn't take another step forward. sometimes I've even received inspiration for little, seemingly "trivial", things.

 

Many things we just don't know - yet. One of them is why some prayers are answerd and some aren't. I am utterly convinced EVERY prayer is heard, and every supplican't known and loved. I've known wonderful people who've had terrible things happen, and they got through those things by relying upon a loving God to sustain them. Sustain them He did. They came through them with greater faith in the reality, goodness, and tender mercy of God.

 

Job is a great lesson when we're trying to figure these things out.

[mommyrooch]

Ok, either god hates our dd or prayer doesn't really work. Because what kind of a god would keep a child chronically ill and suffering? Oh, I guess one who works in mysterious ways?

 

Tara

 

Tara, :grouphug:

 

There really is no good answer to your question. I did for some reason though feel like I needed to respond since I do have kind of a unique perspective on your question.

 

First, I will start by saying that I am a Christian but I myself have asked the very question you have asked.

 

My son was diagnosed with Leukemia is 2002 and underwent 3 years of chemotherapy. He had to go through 21 spinal taps, 10 bone marrow aspirations, thousands of venipunctures, multiple hospitalizations, extreme sickness, etc. etc. I often found myself questioning why God would let my child suffer through that. Sometimes, honestly, I still do. ;)

 

I can tell you though that my sons life was dramatically changed BECAUSE of what he went through. He just turned 13 this year and for the first time he is truly understanding what it means to be a Leukemia survivor. He understand his own mortality and BECAUSE of what he went through he values not only his life, but the lives of others on a much deeper level than he ever would have had he not walked that road.

 

Today he is an honored hero for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Societies "Team in Training." He is a living, breathing, inspiration to other families and children suffering with Leukemia. He visits children in the hospital who are in the thick of their battle and he offers them hope and support.

 

Let me tell you, back when my son was first diagnosed, do you know what it would have meant to me to have had a healthy, vibrant, young man come visit him in the hospital and give us a hug and let us know that there is hope? Back then I didn't know if my son would live or die and being given the chance to meet a young man that not only survived but is thriving would have meant the world to me!!

 

My son is now that hope for others. He uses the trials he has faced for good. He is not like normal kids. He WANTS to use what he went through to help others. He even says he wants to be a Pharm D when he grows up so that he can research the pharmacology side of cancer treatment.

 

I always joke with him that he has the wisdom of a 60 year old man in a 13 year old body. (At least in some things. :lol:) He also volunteers for The American Cancer Society. He also seems to have a heightened amount of sympathy for others. He volunteers at our regional food bank and goes to feed the homeless every month.

 

Illness, hunger, poverty, unjustice, etc. are things that he advocates very strongly against. I am certain that it is BECAUSE of what he went through that made him have such a passion for those things at such a young age. Had he never faced those trials I don't think he would have grown up into the young man he is today. I honestly have never met a kid like him. My own daughter is more like a "typical" kid and tends to have the "it's all about me" mentality.

 

Not my son. He is attuned to others hardships and fears. He advocates for the needy and offers advice and support to the sick.

 

Anyway, back to your original question. Because of how my son turned out, I have often wondered if God allowed him to go through those years of hell in order to change his heart and lead him to the place that would make him into the wonderful young man he is today. I know my son would never have had a passion for all of the things so near to his heart if he had not lived though those tragic experiences himself. It has made him have a unique understanding of what children with Leukemia are going through so now he offeres hope and support to them because he understands and has been there.

 

Does that makes sense?

 

I still can't answer your question and I wouldn't even try. I can only offer you a glympse into what having a child that has suffered through an illnees has meant to our family and what it has meant to our son. I don't know why God lets some suffer and not others. I don't know why God allowed my son to go through what he did. I can tell you though that 10 years later (my son is now a 10 year survivor) I am seeing something not only positive but truly amazing come out of it. I am seeing a child that went through unimaginable hell, grow up into a caring, empathetic, and honerable young man because of what that experience taught him.

 

Am I thankful for his sickness? Heck no!!! I would have to be psycho to be thankful my son went though that. It does make me wonder though if God really did "see" the bigger picture and knew that he wanted my son to be the kind of man that gave to others. It has allowed me to accept that perhaps what I wanted for my son wasn't what God wanted for him. Perhaps my son needed to travel that road in order to end up at the destination that was meant for him.

 

Anyway, it's just something to think about. I do believe in God and personally, I do believe that God had a plan for my son and that his battle with Leukemia was part of that plan. I don't know exactly how my son's future will map out but I am certain that because of what he went through, he will use his experiences for the good as long as he lives. That's the only justification I have for his suffering. I believe it helped mold and shape my son into the person he is today. At least that belief gives me peace.

 

:grouphug:

[gardenmom5]

Although she did not come right out and say it, she strongly implied that, were I Christian and were I to pray hard enough, god would "heal" my child as well. Um ... sure.

 

 

I'm sorry you had to deal with such a shortsighted woman. I'm sorry you've had to deal wtih having an ill child. You have my best wishes for your dd.

 

I have also encountered her type too many times - I came to the conclusion they hold to the position of "if you only had-faith/were-more-righteous you wouldn't ____. . . " becasue they think they have faith/are-more-righteous so they will be spared hardship. (and more importantly - if bad things can happen to "faithful/righteous" people, bad things might happen to them. -gasp!) I believe that deep down, their faith is actually weak. It takes far more faith to walk that hard road than to take the bypass. (not saying that the bypass is unwelcome when it comes)

 

She probably hasn't read Job recently either.

[Avila]

One of the reasons that I never became Christian (despite the best efforts of people too numerous to mention or count who tried to convince me to accept Christ) is that the whole prayer idea never made sense to me.

 

I was once in a weird and, looking back on it, horrifying conversation with a woman who adopted a child who was diagnosed with the same chronic, life-threatening (and currently incurable) condition my dd has. When the child arrived from overseas, it was found that she did not, in fact, have this condition. The woman who adopted her spent quite some time explaining to me how god had answered their prayers by healing their child. She was completely unwilling to even consider the idea that her dd had been misdiagnosed and had never, in fact, had the condition. Although she did not come right out and say it, she strongly implied that, were I Christian and were I to pray hard enough, god would "heal" my child as well. Um ... sure.

 

My dh and I were out walking one night when we met a couple who were interviewing and videotaping people for some sort of church video they were making. They asked us questions about our religious beliefs and about why we are not Christian. During our discussion, we mentioned our chronically ill dd. They asked if they could pray with us, and they asked god to cure our child. They gave us a card with their phone number and asked us to call them "when" our child was cured. Surprisingly, she's not cured, even though this occurred two years ago and they assured us that god could and would heal our dd.

 

Ok, either god hates our dd or prayer doesn't really work. Because what kind of a god would keep a child chronically ill and suffering? Oh, I guess one who works in mysterious ways?

 

Tara

 

I just don't even have words for that. I am so sorry, Tara. :grouphug::grouphug:

[Rosie_0801]

Why do some families full of kind and caring people seem to have a great deal of misfortune that they don't deserve while others have good fortune that they don't seem to deserve?

 

I dreamed up a nice, tidy theory of reincarnation to explain this one. It's a shame I don't believe it, but I carry on as though I do. It makes me feel better. :lol:

 

Rosie

[Haiku]

Thanks to everyone who responded to me so kindly. I was tired after work last night when I read this thread and it it all kinda "came out." After I was in bed I thought, "Wow, maybe I really derailed that thread and souned really mean." But I was too tired to get up and try to fix what I'd said. And then to find such compassionate responses this morning! That really warms my heart. Living with chronically ill children (I have two) can be so wearing, and sometimes I don't realize how bitter it can make me until something triggers me to talk/write about it. It's just really painful to be told that somehow I am not doing everything I can to make my children healthy (kinda like those people who tell me I should take my kids off ALL medications and give them ozone therapy/seaweed extract/powdered unicorn horn and they will be fine).

 

Thanks again. :grouphug:

 

Tara

[Marylou]

Thanks to everyone who responded to me so kindly.

 

Tara

 

 

God works in mysterious ways ;)

[Haiku]

God works in mysterious ways ;)

 

:lol:

 

Tara

[Jyniffrec]

Thanks to everyone who responded to me so kindly. I was tired after work last night when I read this thread and it it all kinda "came out." After I was in bed I thought, "Wow, maybe I really derailed that thread and souned really mean." But I was too tired to get up and try to fix what I'd said. And then to find such compassionate responses this morning! That really warms my heart. Living with chronically ill children (I have two) can be so wearing, and sometimes I don't realize how bitter it can make me until something triggers me to talk/write about it. It's just really painful to be told that somehow I am not doing everything I can to make my children healthy (kinda like those people who tell me I should take my kids off ALL medications and give them ozone therapy/seaweed extract/powdered unicorn horn and they will be fine).

 

Thanks again. :grouphug:

 

Tara

 

I had a big long response written out but I deleted it. We are in the same boat - two kids with life threatening, incurable diseases/disorders. All I can say it :grouphug::grouphug: to you. I know how hard it is.

[JVA]

One of the last things to push me back away from Christianity was realizing that it didn't make any sense to have a God who would help *this* person find her missing car keys and let *that* person's baby die.

 

[right around the time I was asking some big questions of my own, a family lost their 14 month old to some kind of asthma type thing..]

 

It just.. doesn't make sense. (and neither do all of the explanations that involve "well, God works in mysterious ways" and stuff.)

 

There are many things I don't understand that have happened. Just yesterday , a wonderful father and husband in our community died of cancer. He probably wasn't even 50. 4 years ago, the same thing happened to a family with 5 little ones. Then, a friend's baby died one month after he was born. A year before that, Chris Klicka died- they live nearby. I don't get why the Lord would take a needed father and husband when there are young children involved. I don't get it. But, I don't have to. I am not the center of the universe and just because I don't understand something doesn't make it wrong and it doesn't make God heartless or evil. He has a much bigger picture than I do. He knows what is best for his plan. Knowing His character, how He works with His people and His general plan for redemption, there will be things that don't jive with my understanding but I TRUST Him to work out His plan. I know the end and it's GOOD. Do I grieve? Of course. Do I get a little mad? Of course. I'm mad at sin and the results of it. I now have 3 friends who are young widows. Does it seem 'unfair'? Of course, to my human understanding, it does. Does that really matter? No. But, because of God's love for me, He has shown me His love and helps me gain understanding. God is omnipotent and what He wills brings about the best. I trust Him and His word. I don't know how but I believe that 'all things work together for good those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.' - Romans 8:28

Then there is the whole other soapbox I could step on about how He comforts us and is near those who grieve. Your question is a deep and endless one. How wonderful that our God is a compassionate and holy God- far beyond my comprehension. :grouphug:

[jenL]

God works in mysterious ways ;)

 

This was my first thought too! (said with much kindness)

 

I am a believer in prayer. As others have said, praying to God is to be WITH him, to realize his infinite grace in our lives, to know his love, and to allow ourselves to surrender to him and his will for our lives. Prayer, to me, is deeper than "I can't find my keys". Instead, it's recognizing that we are not in control, discussing it with God, asking him to fix us for his glory, and knowing that he will always do what is in our best interest despite the horrible situation(s) we may currently be facing. It takes immense faith in the unknown to do this, but God will give it to us if we ask in ways that are appropriate for each and every one of us, and those ways will be different for every person.

 

Years ago, I struggled mightily with the concept of God and all the questions and inconsistencies in which *I* could not reconcile. Once I surrendered to him, he began to show me in ways that *I* could handle. I cannot imagine a world without him now. God is good always even if bad things happen because we live in a sinful world.

[Georgiana Daniels]

Great discussion. I can't even imagine living through/dealing with some of the things you ladies are, and still keeping my faith intact.

 

Do I believe God hears/answers every prayer? At my core, yes. But my mind wages against it. The season I'm in right now stinks, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. The fact remains, God's answers are perfect, even if that means I have to change my understanding of perfect.

[JudoMom]

This has been banging around in my head for a little while, and I'm still not entirely sure I even have my questions straightened out, so please bear with my incoherence and forgive me if accidentally offend. I don't mean to, truly.

 

Do you believe God answers prayers? Do you believe he (or she, or however you may refer to an almighty consciousness) pays attention and can directly intervene when he so chooses? If you do, why do you suppose he answers some prayers and not others? Small prayers and not big ones? Why do some families full of kind and caring people seem to have a great deal of misfortune that they don't deserve while others have good fortune that they don't seem to deserve?

 

TIA for your thoughts on this. I don't mind if you ramble on :D

 

My answer will be unpopular, but thought I'd put it out there, anyway. I'm not trying to convert anyone to my way of thinking, and I know many will disagree, so I probably will not be back to defend since we've got swim lessons and school and all the other stuff.

 

Yes, I believe God answers prayers. Does he always answer in the way I would like, as a non-omniscient being? No. Not by a long shot. But it's not all about me, as much as I would like it to be. I firmly believe that God is good and he is faithful. I was created to enjoy God and give him glory,not to have him answer my prayers as I would like. Sure, that sounds self-centered of God, but it really isn't, considering he is holy and there is nothing else that is.

 

Small example: I have a chronic liver condition. This condition causes fatigue and can mess with my ability to think straight, but the worst issue by far is the daily pain in my joints (and liver at times). I'm only 35. The pain impacts my life. There are days when I cannot successfully complete my tasks as a homeschooling mother. Do I pray that God will take this from me? Yes. But I also know that I've been drawn closer to him through the pain. This isn't to say it's all hunky dory and I'm good with it because of that. I wrestle with God on the issue. I say the "f" word (it isn't fair!). But then I have to choose to rest in my beliefs that God is good and he is faithful and to move closer to God rather than farther away from him.

 

My 3rd son has arthritis (and has had it for 7 years) and chronic headaches and migraines. The summer he was 4, he had funny blood and we were looking at diagnoses that were severe and life threatening. That was the hardest summer ever. I really wrestled with the Lord, knowing that it could go either way. Ds did not have the life-threatening conditions, but he still suffers daily in varying amounts. I pray for God to take the conditions he has away, but I also know that he typically doesn't work in that way. So I have to lean on God and trust in him and his omniscience, and I pray the pain ds suffers in his physical body will be used to drawn him closer to his creator as he grows older.

 

Ultimately, prayer is not to get what we want. It is communication with a real, living, good, and faithful creator God.

Edited October 12, 2011 by JudoMom

[gardenmom5]

It's just really painful to be told that somehow I am not doing everything I can to make my children healthy Thanks again. :grouphug:

 

Tara

 

 

I think I figured out why it hurts so much when people make those dumb/out-of-line/offensive/clueless/insert-epithet comments. (most recently, I was repeatedly told - bluntly and to my face by someone whose assignment was to help my child at church - that my as-yet undiagnosed SPD/ASD child's "issues" were because I had poor parenting skills, and if I were a better mother he wouldn't be having those problems. dh has a favorite saying. don't try to teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and annoys the pig.) I'm very grateful that the person over her position, replaced her when it became clear she was out of her league.

 

as mother's we do our best to help our children. We invest alot of ourselves in them. I think all mother's play the "what if" game second guessing what we do, wondering if we have done everything or are we missing something? or was there something else we should have done differently? to have someone snidley state "you did it wrong" goes right to our most vulnerable spot of our doubts. Even when we *know* they are wrong, it hurts to have such blatant sanctimoniousness thrust in our faces.

[Kari C in SC]

I've had to redefine what I think prayer is for, and Patty summed it up pretty well. Prayer is for us to spend time with God. I think God does answer certain types of prayers. When we pray for his grace to extend to other people in our lives, pray for wisdom to make the right decisions, pray for peace through a difficult situation, pray for the strength to forgive yet again and pray for patience so we don't choke our kids... ;) These are the prayers that I think God hears and answers.

 

THIS is exactly what I have had to do with prayer. I have spent 16 months asking WHY? Why did God allow my child to die? And 8 years before that... WHY? Why did God allow a wonderful Christian homeschool mom (my sister-in-law) to be stabbed to death by her adopted son? WHY? Did we not pray for them? Did we not do what was good and right and especially in my sister-in-law's case - biblical?

 

While my son was in Iraq, we prayed for his safety. Then he came home and I will admit... I stopped praying for his safety as much. Afterall... he wasn't in a warzone. Part of me wanted to blame myself for not praying for him - no war - no prayer for safety. Then he gets in a car with a inexperienced driver and he is dead. I spent months with head games from what Christianity teaches. I tormented myself. Was he in heaven because he wasn't "saved", was he gone because I didn't pray - over and over and over. Then I realized that I believe in God with all my heart. I have since as early as I can remember. I believe in FAITH. I tried to NOT pray because what was the point. I kept going back to prayer because it was normal for me. These days I pray for peace in my mind. I pray for strength to do what I need to do. I have a friend that has a child in surgery today. I am praying for her, but not in the sense of please heal this child. More in the sense of God - I am thinking about this little girl. Please hold her family with you and help them along whatever path this will take. So, prayer to me is like sharing what is on my mind with God. Sometimes when I talk with him - good things happen as an outcome. Sometimes they don't. I don't think it really has all that much to do with whether or not I prayed for it. I think it just pleases God that I share my life with him, so I continue to pray or have that conversation.

[melissel]

THIS is exactly what I have had to do with prayer. I have spent 16 months asking WHY? Why did God allow my child to die? And 8 years before that... WHY? Why did God allow a wonderful Christian homeschool mom (my sister-in-law) to be stabbed to death by her adopted son? WHY? Did we not pray for them? Did we not do what was good and right and especially in my sister-in-law's case - biblical?

 

Kari, I'm so sorry for your losses and your pain :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[simka2]

I think it just pleases God that I share my life with him, so I continue to pray or have that conversation.

 

:iagree:Very well put.

 

There is a story about a young saint I recently read. I cannot remember which saint it is, but basically she is a beautiful young girl who devoted herself to God. A nearby ruler wants to marry her, but she has pledge her life as a bride of Christ and refuses the ruler. The ruler then has her tortured many different ways, but she doesn't die. Finally, he sends a group of young men to r*pe her. This she cannot bear, and as she is running through some canyons to escape she cries out to God to save her. He opens a crack in the canyon wall that she runs into...and so Saint ***** gave her life to God and was protected from the young men. So basically, she dies, but it is an answer to prayer.

 

I am not sure what I am trying to say with this story. Only that it makes me wonder, honestly much of the early church's martyrs have made wonder. They often prayed and asked for suffering. They wanted to suffer for Christ. That is a bit different :confused: Like I said, this is not something I completely understand, but it has made me look at suffering differently. Not so much as the absence of God's intervention, but a path in and of itself.

 

Just musings, no real answers.

[SailorMom]

My View-

God is not a genie in a bottle..... Prayers of thanks only.

I believe God has already provided me (or anyone else) with everything they need because he loves us - we just have to find it all and figure it out.

I do not believe that prayer will save a life, nor do I believe a lack of it will doom a person. I think s#*t just happens.

[Free]

This has been banging around in my head for a little while, and I'm still not entirely sure I even have my questions straightened out, so please bear with my incoherence and forgive me if accidentally offend. I don't mean to, truly.

 

Do you believe God answers prayers? Do you believe he (or she, or however you may refer to an almighty consciousness) pays attention and can directly intervene when he so chooses? If you do, why do you suppose he answers some prayers and not others? Small prayers and not big ones? Why do some families full of kind and caring people seem to have a great deal of misfortune that they don't deserve while others have good fortune that they don't seem to deserve?

 

TIA for your thoughts on this. I don't mind if you ramble on :D

 

I am a Hindu and pretty agnostic right now. But even when I was strongly theistic I did not think of God as a someone sitting and tuning in to prayers and granting wishes as s/he pleased.

 

I do not believe God intervenes in people's lives. Our lives are directed by the choices we make. Our perceptions of good and bad are just that - perceptions. What we see as misfortune is not always so. One of my favorite stories is the one about the Chinese farmer who lost his horse.

 

Our joy and our pain is pretty real to us and it is therefore only natural that we define the nature of existence through our eyes. But if you think about it, we are but just a speck and the world moves around oblivious to our existence.

[simka2]

I am a Hindu and pretty agnostic right now. But even when I was strongly theistic I did not think of God as a someone sitting and tuning in to prayers and granting wishes as s/he pleased.

 

I do not believe God intervenes in people's lives. Our lives are directed by the choices we make. Our perceptions of good and bad are just that - perceptions. What we see as misfortune is not always so. One of my favorite stories is the one about the Chinese farmer who lost his horse.

 

Our joy and our pain is pretty real to us and it is therefore only natural that we define the nature of existence through our eyes. But if you think about it, we are but just a speck and the world moves around oblivious to our existence.

 

I LOVE that story!!!!!

[sarahli]

When I was still a Christian I thought God answered my prayers constantly. At one point I was questioning my faith, and I stopped praying while keeping a journal. I wrote about a situation and how it turned out. I realized that not praying made NO difference in my life- none in my mood, in my "luck", in bad things happening, in healing, nothing. It was really sad actually. The one difference I did find was that when I prayed I found lost objects easier, but this was remedied when I meditated about it instead. None of the other situations were different. But on the bright side, things usually work themselves out in the way I hope on their own.

I started researching prayer studies after this and found the results to mimic my own- that prayer doesn't really make a difference, although it will help people feel better (which in cases of stress, I can see that prayer is helpful for some).

I've only prayed a couple times since then, and although I still don't notice any difference from life with prayer or without, there is a certain sense of peace that there is not anyone "allowing" horrible things to happen to people. It was always hard to justify that in my mind.

[Paisley Hedgehog]

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[Paisley Hedgehog]

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