Felony for using false address for ps?

[MHowell]

This is a story of a mom who is probably not a taxpayer herself (I think she was on the public dole), teaching her children to lie in order to get something that no other children are entitled to. And she has the gall to argue that she doesn't want her children to have to deal with the lowly slobs who attend Akron public schools. She should serve extra time for contributing to the delinquency of a minor.

 

 

This kind of information should not be brought up unless you want to provide proof as well.

 

 

IF I remember correctly, this became national news because 1. the grandfather WAS a taxpayer in the district 2. she was being charged a felony and 3. She was close to finishing her teaching credential.

[MHowell]

The mother could have let the children live with the grandfather, but she needed them to get all of her government aid. Not only that, but the grandfather probably wasn't paying too many tax dollars to the school because he was arrested for extensive welfare fraud.

 

Seriously? Wow....

[Aubrey]

When someone argues that her illegal act was "her only reasonable choice," I say: what if everyone did that? What would be the quality of the Fairlawn schools if all the frustrated kids in the Akron school district crowded into their schools? Obviously Fairlawn schools would then suck just as badly.

 

Only if the problem kids go over there. To assume that they're ALL problem kids is insulting to EVERYONE under 18 who'd be slated for those schools.

 

As for the grandfather living there - I heard he was living in a halfway house - I saw no indication that he was a taxpayer.

 

You miss the point of PUBLIC education. It's not PRIVATE ed being BOUGHT by taxpayers. It's public. It's for citizens. The cost is intended to be shared between the rich & the poor. If grf was in a halfway house--SO WHAT???

 

A while back, they tried to make this about racism. Rest assured that there are plenty of people of color in Fairlawn.

 

No, I think classism is more like it.

 

This is a story of a mom who is probably not a taxpayer herself (I think she was on the public dole), So her kids shouldn't get an education? What does being "on the public dole" have to do with ANYTHING???teaching her children to lie in order to get something that no other children are entitled to. No, other children are "entitled." They have to have wealthier parents, though. And she has the gall to argue that she doesn't want her children to have to deal with the lowly slobs who attend Akron public schools. She should serve extra time for contributing to the delinquency of a minor.

 

Well, do YOU want YOUR kids to deal w/ the crime & lack of safety there?

 

And yes, Ohio needs to get its act together. But no matter where you live, there will always be some families that just don't care about education, and some social ills that academic funding cannot address.

 

Have you read the statistics on poverty? It leads to poverty. It sounds like this woman was trying to break the cycle. Whether or not she went about it the right way is a reasonable question to ask, but your analysis of the situation is completely outside the spirit of democracy and public education.

[MHowell]

http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=172098

 

 

She was working FOR the district at the time of arrest.

[SKL]

Have you read the statistics on poverty? It leads to poverty. It sounds like this woman was trying to break the cycle. Whether or not she went about it the right way is a reasonable question to ask, but your analysis of the situation is completely outside the spirit of democracy and public education.

 

You don't break the cycle of poverty and crime by stealing, defrauding, and lying, and teaching your kids to do the same.

 

You may have missed the post where I said my own nephew attended the very school she found not good enough for her kids. My brother considered whether he could afford private education (no), but would never have considered cheating to get his kid a better education for free. Yet the fact is, his kid is well-educated, because his family cared enough to teach him to prioritize learning. Why was that not enough for this criminal's kids?

 

Also please note that there were tax dollars allotted for her children to attend school in Akron. Nobody is complaining about people attending the schools where they live. By illegally attending a different school, this family was unilaterally deciding that money allotted for other kids' education should be converted to the benefit of her kids. If she wanted her kids to attend that school so badly, she should have moved to that district - legally.

 

Yeah, it irks me when people expect to have their cake and eat it too. There's a limit to how much you can get out of something you aren't paying into.

[Aubrey]

You don't break the cycle of poverty and crime by stealing, defrauding, and lying, and teaching your kids to do the same.

 

From what I've read, this woman has a host of issues, but JUST focusing on the school system fraud, I disagree. The gov't is defrauding the people who live in poor districts. I don't see anything particularly honest or noble in just taking it. That's not to say I condone her actions, just that...a citizen can't "steal" a public education. And dividing our country into pockets of rich & poor alienates the poor as non-citizens.

 

You may have missed the post where I said my own nephew attended the very school she found not good enough for her kids. My brother considered whether he could afford private education (no), but would never have considered cheating to get his kid a better education for free. Yet the fact is, his kid is well-educated, because his family cared enough to teach him to prioritize learning. Why was that not enough for this criminal's kids?

 

Maybe your brother got lucky. Maybe he knew somebody. Maybe he had the resources (time, money, whatever) to *make* this school work for his kids.

 

Maybe the LADY could have made the school work, too, but she didn't like the odds. It's hard to play poker w/ your kids' lives & future.

 

Also please note that there were tax dollars allotted for her children to attend school in Akron. Nobody is complaining about people attending the schools where they live.

 

Right. And I'm sure that would have been fine if the schools there had been worth attending. That's like saying, "Why'd you wait 3m for the next gas station when you needed to use the bathroom? There was a perfectly good port-a-potty on the side of the road!"

 

Wanting better for your kids...thinking that it's important that they get a decent education...doesn't mean you think you're better than anyone else. Ps parents accuse hs parents of that all the time. Nobody's thinking anything about anybody else; they're just trying to do the best they can for their own kids.

 

By illegally attending a different school, this family was unilaterally deciding that money allotted for other kids' education should be converted to the benefit of her kids. If she wanted her kids to attend that school so badly, she should have moved to that district - legally.

 

HOW??? If the homes there are too expensive, HOW is she going to move there?

 

Yeah, it irks me when people expect to have their cake and eat it too. There's a limit to how much you can get out of something you aren't paying into.

 

But that's how a public system works. It's shared. Or supposed to be. Rich kids aren't *supposed* to get a better education than poor kids.

[Tap]

I always tell my kids....you can do what ever you want in this world, but you must be willing to accept the consequences.

 

Just because she didn't like the rule, didn't give her the right to break it. She broke the rule, she is paying the consequences. That is how it works.

 

~~~

 

I am not responding to anyone one here in particular but there is one thing that always bugs me about the 'I pay property taxes.....' argument.

 

WE ALL pay school taxes, to educate ALL of society. The little kid down the street....may be a senator, doctor, lawyer, homemaker or ditch digger someday. I pay taxes, to make sure that EVERYONE is educated, not just my children. I pay more or less, based on what standards I want all children's education to be at...not just my own.

[mommaduck]

I always tell my kids....you can do what ever you want in this world, but you must be willing to accept the consequences.

 

Just because she didn't like the rule, didn't give her the right to break it. She broke the rule, she is paying the consequences. That is how it works.

 

~~~

 

I am not responding to anyone one here in particular but there is one thing that always bugs me about the 'I pay property taxes.....' argument.

 

WE ALL pay school taxes, to educate ALL of society. The little kid down the street....may be a senator, doctor, lawyer, homemaker or ditch digger someday. I pay taxes, to make sure that EVERYONE is educated, not just my children. I pay more or less, based on what standards I want all children's education to be at...not just my own.

 

Yep! We ALL pay them in one way or another. In one township here, EVERYONE above the age of 18 pays a head-tax, even if they are on "the public dole" aka receive public assistance of some sort....those taxes go to the schools. Most places pay for their schools through property tax. Even if you rent, the rent is high enough to cover the taxes on the property...so a renter is still paying the taxes, EVEN IF they are on assistance. THEN you have the schools receiving a certain amount per kid. PLEASE explain to me why a district with more people, even though they are poor, can't provide a decent education? It's no wonder people are doing this.

 

And yes, I'm against lying and typically would not do it myself. BUT, I've know families that live in certain areas where the ONLY safe way to have their kids educated was to do this. NO, they could not move. However, lying was seen as the lesser evil compare to the constant worry of getting a call saying your kid, literally, didn't survive their day at school. When kids are r@p3d in a hallway, when kids live in a burned out ghetto, etc...yeah, parents will do what they have to do.

[KidsHappen]

In my district you have to turn in a signed affidavit stating that you live in county, a copy of your mortgage or a rental agreement and two utilities in your name. Apparently we have a lot of people from neighboring counties trying to get their kids in our schools (we live right on the county line). What they don't realize though is that while we live in the wealthiest county in TN and one of the wealthiest in the nation and the district likes to believe that we have some of the best schools in the state, many of our schools are out dated, over crowded, poorly staffed and managed and our test scores are way lower than they should be. Private research that I just became aware of today ranked 25 districts in TN and our local schools fell in the 18 or 19 area. Many of the best areas fell in Knoxville (which is one of the poorer areas of TN), a few in Nashville (not an overly wealthy county) and just one in our county (the school my kids would have went to if we hadn't moved :glare:) which just goes to show that you don't always get what you pay for. I don't approve of the way we currently pay for public schools but I don't think that evenly distributing the money across the board would make that much difference either.

[ktgrok]

When I was in St. Lucie County, in Florida, I loved their system. The district was divided into 3 zones. There were various income levels in each zone. You submitted a form with your first, second, and third choice schools, choosing among all the schools in your zone. You got first dibs if you lived within 2 miles of the school, or if there was a sibling attending the school. Otherwise you were assigned via computer, based on your choices. Buses provided transportation.

[SKL]

But that's how a public system works. It's shared. Or supposed to be. Rich kids aren't *supposed* to get a better education than poor kids.

 

Who's talking about rich kids, anyway? Rich families pay most of the taxes and send their kids to private schools. The kids who are getting stolen from are middle-class and working-class kids whose parents have paid a large chunk of their disposable income toward making sure they have access to a decent public education. They could have individually spent on tutoring or whatever, but instead they did the community thing and pooled together. They would not have done it if they thought everyone in the surrounding communities who did NOT pitch in felt entitled to suck up the extra benefit.

 

But again, money is really not the issue in the Akron schools. The big city schools spend plenty per capita. They have the resources to teach kids just fine. The problem is crime / delinquency, which distracts mental and physical resources away from learning. (Presumably there's also plenty of institutional bad management involved.) However, 2+ wrongs don't make a right.

 

Again, I say - what if everyone did that? Some of the posters here don't seem to be looking at the big picture.

 

And some seem to think that punishing the so-called "rich" for the problems in inner city schools is a great idea.

 

As I said before, if the inner city public schools are that bad, let's close them and give the money back to the families so they can find their own solutions. I do not get why when it comes to school, throwing more good money after bad is acceptable. (Well, actually I do get it, and it has nothing to do with kids learning the 3Rs.)

[Aubrey]

Who's talking about rich kids, anyway? Rich families pay most of the taxes and send their kids to private schools. The kids who are getting stolen from are middle-class and working-class kids whose parents have paid a large chunk of their disposable income toward making sure they have access to a decent public education. They could have individually spent on tutoring or whatever, but instead they did the community thing and pooled together. They would not have done it if they thought everyone in the surrounding communities who did NOT pitch in felt entitled to suck up the extra benefit.

 

Your definition of rich is those who can afford private schools. Mine is those who can afford the better public schools. The only difference is our threshold, & that tends to come from position. We all think "rich" is the person who has more than we do.

 

So what about the parents without disposable income? What about the kid in the crime-riddled district who ISN'T a criminal? Do you know that teachers aren't allowed to intervene if they see a girl being raped in the hallway? They can *tell* the other kid to stop. They can call security (who may or may not come). And that's IT. Anything beyond that--even standing between the kid & the girl--& the teacher can be sued for assault.

 

I would NEVER have a clear conscience about sending my kids to a school like that. What *would* I do if I couldn't hs & lived in a Really Bad district? I honestly don't know. I'd do everything I could to get my kids safe. I'd stick to what's legal as long as possible, but I can't put the law above my child's safety. At least, not this kind of law.

 

I'm not saying this woman was right. I mean, given the other specifics of her case, she was obviously a greedy nutjob. I'm just talking about the principles behind what some posters are saying. And fwiw, I taught in an overcrowded district that was rife with problems because of illegal immigration, so I KNOW first-hand what that kind of cheating-the-system can do to a school. I KNOW that "if everyone did it" it would be a mess.

 

But I also know that it's not the action of a criminal. Criminals care about themselves only. This is the action of a desperate parent. If I disagree w/ her solution, I think I have an obligation to help come up with a better one than she did. This isn't HER problem; it's ALL of OUR problem.

 

But again, money is really not the issue in the Akron schools. The big city schools spend plenty per capita. They have the resources to teach kids just fine. The problem is crime / delinquency, which distracts mental and physical resources away from learning. (Presumably there's also plenty of institutional bad management involved.) However, 2+ wrongs don't make a right.

 

Again, I say - what if everyone did that? Some of the posters here don't seem to be looking at the big picture.

 

I think if everyone did that, we'd have a (messy) revolution, & someone would have to solve the problem. It might be a great idea.

 

And some seem to think that punishing the so-called "rich" for the problems in inner city schools is a great idea.

 

As I said before, if the inner city public schools are that bad, let's close them and give the money back to the families so they can find their own solutions. I do not get why when it comes to school, throwing more good money after bad is acceptable. (Well, actually I do get it, and it has nothing to do with kids learning the 3Rs.)

 

Actually, my solution of preference IS to shut down the whole system. :001_smile:

[mom2scouts]

http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=172098

 

 

She was working FOR the district at the time of arrest.

 

She was working for the district where she did NOT send her children. She sent her children to another school district!

[Stacy in NJ]

I read this article about a mother who used her father's address to allow her kids to attend a better ps. She was originally charged with two felonies of "grand theft," before the charges were eventually reduced.

 

My emotions ran the gamut from outrage ("They are seriously going to spend tax dollars on imprisoning people for this?!"), to gallows humor, to sad resignation.

 

What stood out to me most was this paragraph:

 

 

 

I won't bother pointing out all the class and race warfare inherent in that statement. It's one of those things you either see or you don't.[/QUOTE]

 

As someone who volunteers at a high perfomance charter school in a low performance, high poverty area, I see folks, all kinds of folks: black, white, asian, hispanic, stuggling to find the best educational option for their kiddos. And I sympathize with this lady and folks like her. But it's not about race or class; it's about trying to control, for economic reasons, the educational choices of all Americans.

[mommaduck]

Who's talking about rich kids, anyway? Rich families pay most of the taxes and send their kids to private schools. The kids who are getting stolen from are middle-class and working-class kids...

I think it needs to be noted that "middle class kids" ARE "rich kids" compared to poor and working poor kids. Most "working class kids" are the working-poor class. My son went to school with a bunch of middle class kids and they acted like he must be living on the street because he didn't have an x-box or iphone (he doesn't even have a cell phone) :glare: My kids get excited over picnics and playing tennis at the park instead :D

[mommaduck]

 

I won't bother pointing out all the class and race warfare inherent in that statement. It's one of those things you either see or you don't.

 

As someone who volunteers at a high perfomance charter school in a low performance, high poverty area, I see folks, all kinds of folks: black, white, asian, hispanic, stuggling to find the best educational option for their kiddos. And I sympathize with this lady and folks like her. But it's not about race or class; it's about trying to control, for economic reasons, the educational choices of all Americans.

Could you explain how this is not done based on class?

[SKL]

I think it needs to be noted that "middle class kids" ARE "rich kids" compared to poor and working poor kids. Most "working class kids" are the working-poor class. My son went to school with a bunch of middle class kids and they acted like he must be living on the street because he didn't have an x-box or iphone (he doesn't even have a cell phone) :glare: My kids get excited over picnics and playing tennis at the park instead :D

 

Well, "poor" US kids are filthy rich compared to the middle class in most countries. (And compared to what I had as a kid.) So yeah, everything is relative. But the point is that when people illlegally send their kids to schools other than the ones funded for them, don't assume that the kids they are taking from have a surplus of resources anyway. Many families in the "better" school district make huge material sacrifices in order to live there, just to be legally entitled to that education. Let's not disrespect that.

 

If you really believe in the community educating kids regardless of their family wealth, then you should be in favor of enforcing rules against what this woman did. Because if what she did were allowed, nobody would be willing to voluntarily pool their money to improve their local schools. So instead of having some good public schools and some bad ones, we'd just have all bad ones. Is that preferable?

[littlebug42]

http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=172098

 

She worked for the district where her children should have attended, not the district where they were attending.

 

Here is an article talking about the efforts to resolve this case and why it went on to felony charges.

 

http://www.ohio.com/news/mom-jailed-for-records-falsification-1.203753

 

She was working FOR the district at the time of arrest.

 

BTW, the Governor recently granted her clemency and decreased the sentence on the books so she will be eligible to get her teaching degree now and actually work. I also just thought I would mention that in one of the articles I read about this case, this woman also mentioned that her father's address is one of her primary residences and she lived there at least 1/2 the time. Since she is the recipient of federal housing assistance, that statement could also put her in trouble with her housing authority.

[butterflymommy]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned homeschooling as a solution for innercity children being failed by their public schools. I don't think a single person has mentioned it in this thread.

 

When I first heard about this story I wondered why the woman didn't homeschool instead of going to the extent of her "con." She is a single mother, but wouldn't be the first single mother to homeschool. Where there is a will, there's usually a way.

 

Perhaps homeschool advocates such as ourselves could do outreach to let innercity families know it is a legal and feasible option. I lived in an innercity neighborhood for ~10 years and was always surprised that no one (well, except us) homeschooled-- at least not within my radar.

[WishboneDawn]

Wrong is the discrepancy in the quality of education from one public school to the next. Parents shouldn't have to lie in effort to get their child a decent education. The inequality and unlevel playing field in public education is downright sickening. A federal offense...that's what the government should be charged with...gah!! Disgusting :glare:

 

I'm late to this but that's a brilliant point Tina.

[mommaduck]

Well, "poor" US kids are filthy rich compared to the middle class in most countries. (And compared to what I had as a kid.) So yeah, everything is relative. But the point is that when people illlegally send their kids to schools other than the ones funded for them, don't assume that the kids they are taking from have a surplus of resources anyway. Many families in the "better" school district make huge material sacrifices in order to live there, just to be legally entitled to that education. Let's not disrespect that.

 

If you really believe in the community educating kids regardless of their family wealth, then you should be in favor of enforcing rules against what this woman did. Because if what she did were allowed, nobody would be willing to voluntarily pool their money to improve their local schools. So instead of having some good public schools and some bad ones, we'd just have all bad ones. Is that preferable?

Where did I say I approved? I said I understood. If you could not move and could not homeschool, how would YOU feel about sending your child to a school where girls were regularly raped in the hallways and kids were killed on the way home from school (yes, these schools DO exist). You think keeping your kids in those schools and attending meetings is going to change things? HA! It's a nice dream, but it doesn't work that way. We only WISH it worked that way. And how many kids would be damaged or die before change would happen, if at all. All we're saying is to put yourself in that parent's shoes and think about what their mindset is. They don't care whether a school has more expendable money or not. They see only a safer school where their kids can actually get an education.

 

I also would like to know where you think those people are going to get money to "voluntarily pool" together? Many of these families are either barely keeping their electricity, if at all, and are spending any extra they have on clothes for their kids and school supplies. That kind of statement shows that you really do not know how much these areas or how these families struggle. My husband used to go around checking on people in these areas, setting them up with organizations that would turn their electricity back on and bring them a few bags of food...these are working families, so it's not like they are just sitting around doing nothing. You think they are just going to go out back and pull money off the tree to improve their schools?

 

Honestly, the whole system needs to be scratched and start over. Again, please tell me how a district receives a certain amount of money per student, yet those with the most students, and typically the most need, have the least...

Edited October 4, 2011 by mommaduck

[KristinaBreece]

Honestly, the whole system needs to be scratched and start over. Again, please tell me how a district receives a certain amount of money per student, yet those with the most students, and typically the most need, have the least...

 

In Ohio, local property taxes subsidize the school systems. The crowded urban schools are likely to be in districts where most of the residences are apartments and rental houses. The people who own those houses are not going to vote for property tax increases to help the schools. An overwhelming number of the inner-city parents don't vote for any number of reasons. Less local property tax, more students, less money. It's a hard system. And when you get parents that do care, they're expected to sacrifice their children to the system in order to work within it, for change that is likely not to happen in our lifetime.

 

I'm in Columbus. My school district is going broke. I'm so fortunate to be able to teach my kids at home for now. If it came to a point where I had to put them in school, there are charter schools in our area that are an option, or we would go with the K12 Ohio Virtual Academy.

 

Alternatively, my mother lives in an affluent school district that's nearby. Would I move in with her in order to put my kids in that district? You bet. Barring that as an option, I can see why that mother did what she did.

[Caroline]

That's my huge beef with NCLB legislation. It gives families the option to transfer out of failing schools, but many families do not have the transportation to do so.

 

NCLB requires school districts to provide transportation. Kids take the regular bus to their own school and then are bussed from there to the choice school.

[celticmom]

Public schools here are certainly selective about their enrollment. In our local homeschool group, we consistently have new members who say their children were "pushed out" of the public school system, with the typical ages of their children being the years that NCLB applies.

:confused: I can totally believe that a school sytem would do this but how do they get away with it?

[creativish]

I have a hard time comprehending all of this.

In my rural America world many of our good schools are fearing shut-down because of lack of students. Districts consolidate, hoping to prevent closings. Teachers and assistants lose jobs as families move to the city. And then they get there and this... :(

 

My husband and I joke that the nearby districts would fight to get us to move to their area (having 7 kids).:tongue_smilie: Life is so different here I guess.

 

Seriously, I can understand that it would be *hard* to move but geez, if my family was in a dangerous situation, you bet I would be saving my pennies, setting my sights on some other location, just like so many of our ancestors did before us. Maybe I'm completely naive?

[Aubrey]

Seriously, I can understand that it would be *hard* to move but geez, if my family was in a dangerous situation, you bet I would be saving my pennies, setting my sights on some other location, just like so many of our ancestors did before us. Maybe I'm completely naive?

 

Well...say you can barely pay your water + electricity every mo. Maybe you're only $25 short one mo, but $100 another. You work SO hard to scrape by, make ends meet. You don't stop for illness. You walk to work if your car breaks down. You kill yourself & have nothing left over.

 

Then you get laid off. Where are those extra pennies going to come from? Where are you going to go?

[Jennifer3141]

I do not understand why parents are not revolting en masse about the "public" school system in our country. It's like we've accepted that entire swaths of children (the inner city kids usually) are just worthless and we don't have any responsibility towards them. :(

[creativish]

Well...say you can barely pay your water + electricity every mo. Maybe you're only $25 short one mo, but $100 another. You work SO hard to scrape by, make ends meet. You don't stop for illness. You walk to work if your car breaks down. You kill yourself & have nothing left over.

 

Then you get laid off. Where are those extra pennies going to come from? Where are you going to go?

 

I know it won't work in all situations, but kids staying with family or friends for a bit? Babysitting? Garage Sales, Ebay? Pawn shops? If the situation is severe enough where kids were getting raped in the halls and stuff-- you bet I'd figure out an alternative somehow, someway.

[seraphina]

So many people just don't know a different life. I know that when I go into the inner city it is shocking to me and I don't exactly live in a posh area. I think that many people are just defeated and they see no hope. I agree people should be revolting but when you've been knocked down so many time and you've never known life any other way, you just sort of accept the cards you are dealt. :sad:

[Lucy the Valiant]

I have thought for years that one part of the public school's problem is mandatory attendance. I am *ALL FOR* education, but I think a lot of kids in those horrible-awful schools would be so much better WITHOUT going to school - and probably learn more, too.

[swellmomma]

I haven't read all the replies yes, l'll do that in a minute.

 

When my kids were in ps I drove them to a neighboring town to go to school. The schools in my city were crappy, the ones in the next city over were awesome. I did not lie about their address but I considered it. I registered them as non-resident students. What that meant was that I had to pay almost double the registration costs and they got ZERO special needs services that they needed. I considered giving my parents address in that city and telling the school we moved in with them just to be sure the kids could get the services they needed. It felt wrong to do so though so I did not. They really struggled in that school, even though it was a very good school with programs etc that offered amazing opportunities because they couldn't get services. The schools in my city would not have served them any better. Yes they could have gotten special needs services, but then they would have been in bigger classes, with more students over all and less opportunities (the school they attended has a artist in residence program for example, so in 1st and 2nd grades my kids learned and performed A MidSummer Night's Dream with the rest of the school (so they had groups of each character instead of just one, Austin was puck and that was very suiting lol).

 

It's a tough decision as a parent if the schools around you are terrible, if you are going to put the kids in a neighboring town or in your local schools. If in a neighboring town you have to decide if you are going to be honest and register as a non-resident and know that your children will not get any services they may need, or if you are going to lie about residence in order to make sure your kids can go to the good school and get services if they need them too.

 

Honestly I do not think it should be a felony. The parent should not have lied however, what exactly is she thought to have stolen? Do you not have to pay to have your child attend school? I get that taxes go to the schools, I pay them too and don't use the schools. Although the taxes are going there, the parents still have to pay registration fees, lunch room fees(just to be allowed to eat in it, not talking about buying food at school), this fee and that fee, etc. She is not taking the spot away from another child in that area is she? Nothing was mentioned about a waiting list at the school and some child in the area could not get in because of her lie. If she is willing to transport her child to and from that town and not rely on bussing, and has paid the related school fees etc than I really don't see the big issue. Every child deserves a good education and if a parent is willing to transport to other schools then kids should not be forced to attend under par schools.

[Abeille]

We just moved to a new state, and chose a house largely based on the good schools within half a mile. Our plan was to enroll our 3 dc into ps and supplement with afterschooling, because I am supposed to be starting nursing school in January. We knew the district has serious problems in some of its schools, and planned to look for alternatives before high school. However, when I called the district to enroll the dc I was told that we couldn't use the local schools because they're full. Instead, my dc will be bussed to inner-city schools within the district. The middle school my 7th grader would be sent to has 40% teacher turnover annually, abysmal test scores, a 20% suspension rate, and is rife with gang activity; the district could not tell me which school my twin 5th-graders would be assigned to, but were certain they would not go to our local school. We can't afford private school, so it looks like homeschooling is our best option even though it means me giving up on school (at least for now). Paying higher property taxes, or moving to a "good" area doesn't always ensure your dc will be allowed to attend better schools.

 

I feel embarrassed by my ignorance, but I never truly understood just how messed up the public education system has become until it impacted my family directly. I am grateful that my family has the option of homeschooling, even if it derails my own personal goals for now. My heart hurts for all the families who don't have the resources to choose to remove their dc from failing schools. The system needs changing, and while I'm willing to do my part to effect change via political action, I am not willing to send my dc to dangerous or failing schools to do so.

Edited October 4, 2011 by Abeille
fixing typos

[Jennifer3141]

I know it won't work in all situations, but kids staying with family or friends for a bit? Babysitting? Garage Sales, Ebay? Pawn shops? If the situation is severe enough where kids were getting raped in the halls and stuff-- you bet I'd figure out an alternative somehow, someway.

 

 

I see what you're saying and it's really hard not to judge poor people because yes, many of us have overcome incredible obstacles and made something awesome (or at least managable) with our lives.

 

However, what if the only family you have NOT in prison is a meth addicted mother?

 

What if there are no babysitting jobs in your neighborhood because people don't USE them? What if they just left their kids alone at home instead?

 

You have to have something to TAKE to a pawn shop before that helps. And how do you have a garage sale in an apartment?

 

And then imagine that this way of life is all you know. Yes, it sucks that kids get raped at school so just hang tighter to your friends, right? And then, let's make sure thet we make it COMPLETELY obvious that the school system you attend does not care one whit about you by throwing 50 kids at one teacher, making sure there aren't enough materials to go around and making sure you eat substandard food at the school while you're there. And then we'll send you home (where statiscally, you're only going to have one parent) to a parent who may care deeply about you but needs to work more than one low paying job to keep you fed OR a parent who is fighting drug/alcohol issues, or just flat out has given up on their own life, let alone yours.

 

I live in a rural part of northern Michigan. Everyone here has to have a minimum of 10 acres in this township. It's really hard for me to imagine kids living without parents, schools falling apart, etc. etc. When I watch the mists swilring over my backyard, it's really hard to imagine places in this country where kids are in fear of crossing to the wrong wide of the street or feeling fearful while at school. It's a huge disconnect for me too.

[creativish]

I see what you're saying and it's really hard not to judge poor people because yes, many of us have overcome incredible obstacles and made something awesome (or at least managable) with our lives.

 

However, what if the only family you have NOT in prison is a meth addicted mother?

 

What if there are no babysitting jobs in your neighborhood because people don't USE them? What if they just left their kids alone at home instead?

 

You have to have something to TAKE to a pawn shop before that helps. And how do you have a garage sale in an apartment?

 

And then imagine that this way of life is all you know. Yes, it sucks that kids get raped at school so just hang tighter to your friends, right? And then, let's make sure thet we make it COMPLETELY obvious that the school system you attend does not care one whit about you by throwing 50 kids at one teacher, making sure there aren't enough materials to go around and making sure you eat substandard food at the school while you're there. And then we'll send you home (where statiscally, you're only going to have one parent) to a parent who may care deeply about you but needs to work more than one low paying job to keep you fed OR a parent who is fighting drug/alcohol issues, or just flat out has given up on their own life, let alone yours.

 

I live in a rural part of northern Michigan. Everyone here has to have a minimum of 10 acres in this township. It's really hard for me to imagine kids living without parents, schools falling apart, etc. etc. When I watch the mists swilring over my backyard, it's really hard to imagine places in this country where kids are in fear of crossing to the wrong wide of the street or feeling fearful while at school. It's a huge disconnect for me too.

 

In the last 10-15 years we've had a large influx of immigrants to our area-- and I guess that skews my view on this subject and makes it seem like getting out of there wouldn't be so hard to achieve since so many seem to have successfully done it around me.

[Wheres Toto]

My daughter's high school has a lot of students who want to come in from out of the district. In order to enroll her, I had to show multiple information identifying our address (utility bill in my name, not dh's; driver's license; bank statement with my name on it) and I was told if we were found to be lying, they would charge us tuition for the past time we were there and we may not be allowed to continue in the school. Nothing was said about criminal charges. (This was made slightly more confusing by my last name being different than dd's and she actually lives 1/2 the time with her dad.)

 

Her school has very low turn-over because the staff are allowed to enroll their children there, it's in a very affluent town (not my town, we have a send/receive relationship) and parents, administrators and teachers are all very involved with helping the kids do well.

 

There was a family who bought a very small, cheap house in our neighborhood but didn't live in it, so they could have an address to use to send their kids to this school district. They rented it out privately while their child was in school and once he graduated they sold it.

 

When I was growing up, we were extremely poor. The schools we went to weren't that bad but I know even if they were, there wasn't much my mother would have been able to do about it. No way we could have afforded to move and even if we could, the places we could have afforded to live would likely have had even worse schools. There was no family that we could have moved in with and no possible way to afford private school.

[SKL]

When I was six years old, I thought the stores were charging too much for candy bars, so I stole one.

 

It is true the candy bars were overpriced. I was from a poor family and I honestly could not afford what I felt I ought to have.

 

That didn't stop my mom from teaching me a lesson that I haven't forgotten 39 years later.

 

Unfortunately, a lot of people are being brought up with the belief that they are entitled to what they want even if they can't afford it, and even if there are millions of others who also can't afford it and aren't getting it.

 

Of course we all want the best education our kids can get. That and the cleanest air, most organic food, safest streets, etc. But the reality is that ALL of those cost a lot of money, and if you really want them, you need to work for them over years and decades until you make it happen legally.

 

True, I would not want to send my kids to a school where they are going to be raped in the halls. (Which I don't think happens regularly in Akron, but whatever.) However, if that school was my only legal choice, I would do something to make them safer there. I'd make sure she only went to the restroom with a group of girls, for example. Maybe I'd take her to and from school, get together with other parents to get a SAHM or SAHD to be in the halls at certain times, whatever. And I'd put a lot of effort into finding a way out as soon as possible - charter school, home school, moving, whatever.

 

I am a single mom in an urban district, so I know it's not all peaches and cream, and nobody's saying it is. But somehow all those other kids in Akron (including my nephew, who, by the way, is a very high achiever) are finding a way to survive without breaking the law. Let's not paint it as if it's an impossible situation that no human can abide.

[Mommy22alyns]

In my district you have to turn in a signed affidavit stating that you live in county, a copy of your mortgage or a rental agreement and two utilities in your name. Apparently we have a lot of people from neighboring counties trying to get their kids in our schools (we live right on the county line). What they don't realize though is that while we live in the wealthiest county in TN and one of the wealthiest in the nation and the district likes to believe that we have some of the best schools in the state, many of our schools are out dated, over crowded, poorly staffed and managed and our test scores are way lower than they should be. Private research that I just became aware of today ranked 25 districts in TN and our local schools fell in the 18 or 19 area. Many of the best areas fell in Knoxville (which is one of the poorer areas of TN), a few in Nashville (not an overly wealthy county) and just one in our county (the school my kids would have went to if we hadn't moved :glare:) which just goes to show that you don't always get what you pay for. I don't approve of the way we currently pay for public schools but I don't think that evenly distributing the money across the board would make that much difference either.

 

 

Can you share a link? PM if you need to.

[mom2scouts]

Give me a break. Nobody is getting raped in the halls at the school where this woman's kids should have attended. Obviously she wasn't too scared to work in the district either. I live in this area and I've followed this story from the beginning and it makes me angry that people keep using this woman as an example. This district where she sent her kids illegally has some wealthy areas but you can also get a decent 3 bedroom house for under $100,000. (http://www.homesforsaleakronohio.com/Search_Homes_MLS/page_2141362.html) The woman never even claimed she sent her children to the other school district for a better EDUCATION. She claimed she didn't want them home after school in a bad NEIGHBORHOOD. In that case, she could have sent them to live with her father or moved there herself. She said she didn't want to lose her independence (and her public housing). Unlike all the other families who got caught doing the same thing, she refused to remove her children or pay tuition, she lied to the judge and she showed no remorse. THAT is why she was arrested. Unlike most of the other people caught, she actually had an option to move out of her bad neighborhood and keep the children legally in the school district. This story has been misrepresented in the national media. If you want to speak out against bad public schools and poor people who have no other choice, please do not use this woman as your example!:glare:

[KristinaBreece]

Give me a break. Nobody is getting raped in the halls at the school where this woman's kids should have attended. Obviously she wasn't too scared to work in the district either. I live in this area and I've followed this story from the beginning and it makes me angry that people keep using this woman as an example. This district where she sent her kids illegally has some wealthy areas but you can also get a decent 3 bedroom house for under $100,000. (http://www.homesforsaleakronohio.com/Search_Homes_MLS/page_2141362.html) The woman never even claimed she sent her children to the other school district for a better EDUCATION. She claimed she didn't want them home after school in a bad NEIGHBORHOOD. In that case, she could have sent them to live with her father or moved there herself. She said she didn't want to lose her independence (and her public housing). Unlike all the other families who got caught doing the same thing, she refused to remove her children or pay tuition, she lied to the judge and she showed no remorse. THAT is why she was arrested. Unlike most of the other people caught, she actually had an option to move out of her bad neighborhood and keep the children legally in the school district. This story has been misrepresented in the national media. If you want to speak out against bad public schools and poor people who have no other choice, please do not use this woman as your example!:glare:

 

I think some people looked at this as an opportunity to discuss the broader class division problems within the PS system. I think their point was just that they could see, in some circumstances, doing what she did. Not that she was *right*... just that there are shades of gray.

 

I could be wrong.

[KidsHappen]

Can you share a link? PM if you need to.

 

I don't actually have hard copies yet. The research was conducted by one of my dd's professors at MTSU. It has not been peer reveiwed or published but was done of his own accord for his classes. She has promised to bring home the handouts though and I am looking forward to seeing them. I will try to keep in mind to send you a PM when I get them.

[Aubrey]

I know it won't work in all situations, but kids staying with family or friends for a bit? Babysitting? Garage Sales, Ebay? Pawn shops? If the situation is severe enough where kids were getting raped in the halls and stuff-- you bet I'd figure out an alternative somehow, someway.

 

What are you going to sell if you're poor? You can stay w/ family & friends IF those people live somewhere better, but if you look at the poverty cycle, that's unlikely.

[Aubrey]

When I was six years old, I thought the stores were charging too much for candy bars, so I stole one.

 

It is true the candy bars were overpriced. I was from a poor family and I honestly could not afford what I felt I ought to have.

 

But an education is different from a candy bar in so many ways. For one, we SAY as a country that we believe in basic education for everybody. That's like a sign in the candy bar area saying, "One free candy bar per kid."

 

In action, though, if you actually pick out a candy bar & take it, you'll be called a thief, because as it turns out, candy bars are assigned. The good ones go to those who can afford to buy them anyway. Those who are actually doing without get broken, rotten, opened candy bars--something worse than nothing.

 

The "sense of entitlement" didn't come from within the person; it came from the store's advertisement, which turned out to be misleading & ended up very unfair.

 

That didn't stop my mom from teaching me a lesson that I haven't forgotten 39 years later.

 

Unfortunately, a lot of people are being brought up with the belief that they are entitled to what they want even if they can't afford it, and even if there are millions of others who also can't afford it and aren't getting it.

 

Of course we all want the best education our kids can get. That and the cleanest air, most organic food, safest streets, etc. But the reality is that ALL of those cost a lot of money, and if you really want them, you need to work for them over years and decades until you make it happen legally.

 

What if you can't afford organics for your kids? Should the gov't be allowed to step in & REQUIRE you to feed them trash instead? If you can't afford to move or put your kids in private school or hs, you can't just leave your kids home, let them get jobs, etc. You're REQUIRED by law to send them to the unsafe, unproductive gov't institution.

 

True, I would not want to send my kids to a school where they are going to be raped in the halls. (Which I don't think happens regularly in Akron, but whatever.) However, if that school was my only legal choice, I would do something to make them safer there. I'd make sure she only went to the restroom with a group of girls, for example.

 

Sometimes it's the girls who are the problem. You can't tell me you'd really be comfortable with this. I had female students afraid for their lives, ESP in the bathrooms, because another group of girls had decided they were after her.

 

Maybe I'd take her to and from school, get together with other parents to get a SAHM or SAHD to be in the halls at certain times, whatever.

 

You're still thinking of the wealthier school districts. There are no SAHM or dads. YOU can't take her to & from school because you have to be at work, or you'll lose your job.

 

And I'd put a lot of effort into finding a way out as soon as possible - charter school, home school, moving, whatever.

 

I am a single mom in an urban district, so I know it's not all peaches and cream, and nobody's saying it is. But somehow all those other kids in Akron (including my nephew, who, by the way, is a very high achiever) are finding a way to survive without breaking the law. Let's not paint it as if it's an impossible situation that no human can abide.

 

This is like the argument that ps was "good enough for me" so it should be for your kids, too. There are almost always kids who will do well in a school. My dh & bil attended the school where I taught, just a few years before I was there. They both did fine, thought the school was at least ok. Why? Bil was a football star, & dh was an honors student.

 

Down in my neck of the woods where they stick the new teachers & the 40 kids/class w/out enough desks or materials? It was a Very Different Story.

[Aubrey]

I think some people looked at this as an opportunity to discuss the broader class division problems within the PS system. I think their point was just that they could see, in some circumstances, doing what she did. Not that she was *right*... just that there are shades of gray.

 

I could be wrong.

 

:iagree: I'm not supporting the woman in question in particular, just stating that, broadly speaking, I understand why someone would feel driven to such actions.

[SKL]

 

Of course we all want the best education our kids can get. That and the cleanest air, most organic food, safest streets, etc. But the reality is that ALL of those cost a lot of money, and if you really want them, you need to work for them over years and decades until you make it happen legally.

 

What if you can't afford organics for your kids? Should the gov't be allowed to step in & REQUIRE you to feed them trash instead? If you can't afford to move or put your kids in private school or hs, you can't just leave your kids home, let them get jobs, etc. You're REQUIRED by law to send them to the unsafe, unproductive gov't institution.

 

Yes, the government does require me to feed my kids whether I can afford it or not.

 

True, I would not want to send my kids to a school where they are going to be raped in the halls. (Which I don't think happens regularly in Akron, but whatever.) However, if that school was my only legal choice, I would do something to make them safer there. I'd make sure she only went to the restroom with a group of girls, for example.

 

Sometimes it's the girls who are the problem. You can't tell me you'd really be comfortable with this. I had female students afraid for their lives, ESP in the bathrooms, because another group of girls had decided they were after her.

 

So? What's the solution? More money for Chapter I??

 

Maybe I'd take her to and from school, get together with other parents to get a SAHM or SAHD to be in the halls at certain times, whatever.

 

You're still thinking of the wealthier school districts. There are no SAHM or dads. YOU can't take her to & from school because you have to be at work, or you'll lose your job.

 

Oh, come on. Everyone in those neighborhoods has a full-time job? I really don't think so. (I know not.)

 

**

 

This is like the argument that ps was "good enough for me" so it should be for your kids, too. There are almost always kids who will do well in a school. My dh & bil attended the school where I taught, just a few years before I was there. They both did fine, thought the school was at least ok. Why? Bil was a football star, & dh was an honors student.

 

Down in my neck of the woods where they stick the new teachers & the 40 kids/class w/out enough desks or materials? It was a Very Different Story.

 

Ugh. This back and forth is going nowhere. If you're never going to be satisfied until every child has the same quality of education, you are never going to be satisfied. Period. This is the real world.

 

I was beaten up in the school bathroom when I was 13. Does that mean not enough tax money was spent on my education? Come on. There is crime in Akron. That doesn't equate to a conspiracy to keep all poor children illiterate.

 

I think you and I actually agree that the current system isn't well-designed and things might actually be better if we just scrapped the whole thing and started over. But if you mean starting over with the idea that the schools' efforts are ever going to solve all of society's problems (girl fights in the restroom? Rape?), then you're going to be throwing more good money after bad.

Edited October 5, 2011 by SKL

[Aubrey]

Ugh. This back and forth is going nowhere. If you're never going to be satisfied until every child has the same quality of education, you are never going to be satisfied. Period. This is the real world.

 

I was beaten up in the school bathroom when I was 13. Does that mean not enough tax money was spent on my education? Come on. There is crime in Akron. That doesn't equate to a conspiracy to keep all poor children illiterate.

 

I think you and I actually agree that the current system isn't well-designed and things might actually be better if we just scrapped the whole thing and started over. But if you mean starting over with the idea that the schools' efforts are ever going to solve all of society's problems (girl fights in the restroom? Rape?), then you're going to be throwing more good money after bad.

 

Yep. Funny, isn't it, given the way the thread's going! :D

 

As far as not being satisfied until every child has the same quality of education...as long as we DO have a public ed system, I don't see a reason to be satisfied w/ poor results. But I'd argue that the system we have isn't *truly* public. And maybe a true public school system isn't really what anybody wants any more...that would be another thread.

 

Schools were never intended to solve society's problems as a whole--I agree that that would be silly. But constraining a kid to a bad school seems silly, too. Of course, there's a lot of "silly" going on in public schools. To put it nicely.

[asta]

I read this article about a mother who used her father's address to allow her kids to attend a better ps. She was originally charged with two felonies of "grand theft," before the charges were eventually reduced.

 

My emotions ran the gamut from outrage ("They are seriously going to spend tax dollars on imprisoning people for this?!"), to gallows humor, to sad resignation.

 

What stood out to me most was this paragraph:

 

 

 

I won't bother pointing out all the class and race warfare inherent in that statement. It's one of those things you either see or you don't.

 

Aelwydd,

 

I understand the outrage / concern over this story, even though it is quite old, what I don't understand is the addition of the bolded part.

 

What additional outrage / import / information was added to the story by adding that to the post?

 

This is an incredibly diverse board which has people from all over the globe, from all socioeconomic classes, of every ethnicity. SWB is kind enough to fund it (which is no small amount - believe me) - In my opinion, to make such a statement pretty much belittles everyone who utilizes these boards.

 

 

asta

Edited October 5, 2011 by asta

[snowbeltmom]

 

But I'd argue that the system we have isn't *truly* public.

 

 

This is especially true in a state like Ohio where the vast majority of the public school's funding comes from local property taxes.

[SweetMissMagnolia]

there have been "threats" of similar here.....but not sure if they have ever been done......

[Impish]

Question, no snark at all.

 

If all the boundaries were dropped, and parents could send their child to any school they wished, would it *really* improve the standard of education?

 

First, I can see there being major $$ in transportation costs.

Second, if ps is mainly funded by local propery taxes, as I understand it to be, wouldn't that create an imbalance of students attending vs who is paying out taxes?

 

Third, if one of the hallmarks of a 'good' school is smaller class sizes, how long would it take until those class sizes ballooned and that was no longer the case?

 

Fourth, what would that do to property values? Many, many ppl investigate the quality of local schools before deciding to purchase a home, and the quality of the schools does have a direct impact on how much a home is valued. So, what would happen to the property values if the schools were to become more crowded, etc? Ppl would see their home values tank...and is that acceptable?

 

I don't see any solutions, but I do see a lot of problems.

[Bluegoat]

Whoever thought property taxes were a good way to fund schools? That is a crazy idea.