Mergath Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 ...have murdered an adopted child. I'm typing from my phone, can't link, but it's at msnbc.com. Anyone else seen this yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Oh, dear lord, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 (edited) http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44736685/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/ Don't download the probable cause if you are squeamish. Edited October 1, 2011 by kalanamak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Yeah, they are in our state. It actually happened in May though it is just now coming out that they were Pearl followers. Just sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 13, the child was 13!!!! There are no words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted October 1, 2011 Author Share Posted October 1, 2011 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44736685/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/ That's the one, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linguistmama Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 :crying: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MariannNOVA Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 that poor child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 How many deadly car crashes have to happen at an intersection before a light is put up? How many kids ahve to die before the Pearls get put in jail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillian Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 so sad :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Sick. Beaten and starved nearly to death and died from hypothermia. What kind of monster does that to a child? And in God's name! :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted October 1, 2011 Author Share Posted October 1, 2011 This is getting to be an epidemic. I don't really believe in evil, but the Pearl books are close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 That's the one, thanks. Beyond the horrors, I got caught by the idea of carrying a switch around in your bra. We have this strange reoccurring pattern of large hs families with chidlren adopted from Africa going Pearlwellian.. I think we are on the third family, aren't we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I really could not stomach the part where they played the Bible on tape while they starved her in a closet. How can you live with yourself and the contradictions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairyMom Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Beyond the horrors, I got caught by the idea of carrying a switch around in your bra. Oh, no! I don't know who the Pearls are, but anyone that tells a momma to carry a switch around in their bra is insane! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sputterduck Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Wow. I posted in the wrong thread. Sorry about that. As for this thread: Wow that is awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeindeed Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 So horribly sad...like the op stated, this seems to be an epidemic. How many more children will have to die before the Pearls books are taken out of bookstores/off Amazon/etc.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Man, you are confused .... you're even in the wrong thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoxcell Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I'm pretty sure the Pearls didn't say to starve children and leave them outside in the cold. Their teachings and methods are off for sure but not that far of from what I have seen anyways.:confused: So sad and sick.:crying: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sputterduck Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Man, you are confused .... you're even in the wrong thread. Yeah, no kidding. I plead exhaustion. I have been in the process of moving for two days on 10 hours total sleep between last night and the one before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted October 1, 2011 Author Share Posted October 1, 2011 And how messed up do their six bio kids have to be to have not reported all this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairyMom Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 And how messed up do their six bio kids have to be to have not reported all this? I know I just want to hug all of them... so, so sad! :crying: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 This is getting to be an epidemic. I don't really believe in evil, but the Pearl books are close. I do, and they are. And I'm with 'mouse 100%. Lock up the Pearls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I'm pretty sure the Pearls didn't say to starve children and leave them outside in the cold. Their teachings and methods are off for sure but not that far of from what I have seen anyways.:confused: So sad and sick.:crying: if it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, don't tell me it's not a duck. people are using the pearls teachings to justify child abuse. they got that idea somewhere in those books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 The thing that horrified me most - Okay, it all horrified me the most. But I was particularly struck by the way the older children seemed to have bought into the parents' sick rationalizations, explaining to the detectives that the poor abused girl was "just pretending to be cold" when she was outside for hours in 40-degree weather with no coat. Or that the deaf boy was "pretending not to know how to sign." Also that when she was out there on the last day of her life, the mother sent one of the children out to take her socks and shoes away from her. And he did. Because she was "rebellious" and he knew that she deserved punishment. I am sure that the Pearl defenders on this forum will jump in any minute and assure us that the Pearls don't actually say that you should starve your children and let them die of hypothermia, in so many words, and that therefore this is just another strange coincidence in which followers of a perfectly innocent parenting regimen just happened to go off the rails due to their personal evil natures. And I don't want to hear it. The Pearls say that you need to use harsh physical punishment to utterly break a child into perfect submission, and that you should - that you must - keep up the harsh physical punishments until the child gets to that point. Some kids will die before they get to that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justasque Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 "On 8/13/11,10 yr old IJW [the victims brother, also adopted] was interviewed by a forensic child interviewer. ...He further stated that he gets switched for pretending to not hear Carri and Larry Williams.. IJW is deaf. He stated that his parents will pound their feet on the floor to get his attention and if he doesn't hear them, then they believe he is pretending and gets punished. The floor inside the Williams home is concrete." So, so sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44736685/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/ Don't download the probable cause if you are squeamish. At the part in the statement where one of the children said that he rarely saw or heard Hanna except when she was getting switched, and then he said that eventually "she didn't cry anymore".... I had to stop there. For cases like this, I hope there is a rotting, stinking hell and these people and the Pearls and all their minions go there for the punishment they deserve. There is nothing more that I can post here that won't get me flamed by Pearl fans and likely banned permanently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 The Pearls say that you need to use harsh physical punishment to utterly break a child into perfect submission, and that you should - that you must - keep up the harsh physical punishments until the child gets to that point. Some kids will die before they get to that point. :iagree: The book makes it seem as though "failure" will lead to the collapse of civilization. Any child not raised that way will be whining, screaming criminals, which means the Pearls are off their trolley. I wasn't raised that way. Very few of us were, and yet we manage to stay out of jail and have friends. The Pearls live in a world where BILLIONS aren't raised that way and do okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 to those who think the pearls did NOT advocate starvation- here's an excerpt "A witness told investigators that the Williams got their ideas for the disciplinary measures from a book, "How to Train Up Your Child," which recommends switchings with a plumbing tool, cold water baths, withholding food and putting children out in cold weather as forms of punishment." the Pearls should be in jail. The older children were being taught to promulagate the abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoxcell Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 if it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, don't tell me it's not a duck. people are using the pearls teachings to justify child abuse. they got that idea somewhere in those books. Maybe so, I have never read any of the Pearls books(Michael gives me the creeps). I just don't think people can pass off their own sins/crimes on someone else no matter what they wrote in a book. People are responsible for their own actions. The Pearls being liable or not is a completley seperate issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdalley Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Sick. Beaten and starved nearly to death and died from hypothermia. What kind of monster does that to a child? And in God's name! :( The only god the Pearls and their followers worship is Michael Pearl. And from what I've seen and read of him he likes it that way. Sick.... I'd never buy a book of the Pearls. I've read them at Goodwill but I wouldn't pay twenty five cents to buy it. I've read more than enough to make me sick to my stomach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraphina Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 At the part in the statement where one of the children said that he rarely saw or heard Hanna except when she was getting switched, and then he said that eventually "she didn't cry anymore".... I had to stop there. For cases like this, I hope there is a rotting, stinking hell and these people and the Pearls and all their minions go there for the punishment they deserve. There is nothing more that I can post here that won't get me flamed by Pearl fans and likely banned permanently. :iagree: These stories make me sick, people who think it's okay to punish their children in such manners make me sick, and I will also leave it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missesd Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Ok, I am new to all this, so perhaps someone can inform me, do they advocate homeschooling too?? I am trying to figure out HOW a child goes through that kind of abuse, loses 30lbs, and a teacher in a PS didn't notice *somewhere* along the line??? My only conclusion is that they HS, although you would think the article would have mentioned that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cin Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Wow. I've read the Pearl's books and I truly don't remember any part that told me to abuse my children. If so, I would have tossed it. Kids die with co-sleeping, should we all stop that? kids drown in pools, should we shut down all the pools? Heck, babies have died from breastfeeding, when their mother's fall asleep. Are we gonna stop that too? No, we use COMMON SENSE. If our child does not respond to a spanking, we don't progress to BEATING. We try another method. I think there was a much deeper issue here. According to the charging documents, Carri Williams is alleged to have talked about how much she disliked her two adopted Ethiopian children, a 10-year-old boy and Hanna. The couple have six biological children. Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with the Pearl's 100%. I don't agree with most things 100%, but I think the Pearl's teachings just gave her a method, and later on, an excuse. :leaving: Ok, I am new to all this, so perhaps someone can inform me, do they advocate homeschooling too?? I am trying to figure out HOW a child goes through that kind of abuse, loses 30lbs, and a teacher in a PS didn't notice *somewhere* along the line??? My only conclusion is that they HS, although you would think the article would have mentioned that.... Good point. If they did homeschool one would think it would have been mentioned. If they didn't, then did NOBODY notice the disappearance of this child from 'the system'? Pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraphina Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I would put down any book that advocated even once for me to lay a hand on my child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrid Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 This is a horror beyond anything I've ever read. And still, a tiny part of me wonders with an icy chill whether Carri is now, or ever has been, here in our midst on this or other homeschooling boards we frequent. astrid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i.love.lucy Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 this makes me so sick and sad. That poor poor child. Not only does it grieve me for her sake but also for that of the many, many potential adoptive parents that she could have been placed with who would have cherished her. I'm just heart sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayle in Guatemala Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Somebody a few years ago gave me their book on wives. Yeah. I started to read it and had to re-read a few portions because I couldn't believe what I was reading and then I threw it out. I didn't want my dc reading it. They scare me.:glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennynd Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 kids die with co-sleeping, should we all stop that? kids drown in pools, should we shut down all the pools? Heck, babies have died from breastfeeding, when their mother's fall asleep. Are we gonna stop that too? . there is something called accident and that is different from starving kids to death intentionally, that poor kid loose 30 lbs in a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momma2three Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 That is so sad :( That poor girl. I also feel sorry for her siblings, who were raised to believe that it's okay to treat a child like this. I hope that they can un-learn that in foster care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momma2three Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Ok, I am new to all this, so perhaps someone can inform me, do they advocate homeschooling too?? I am trying to figure out HOW a child goes through that kind of abuse, loses 30lbs, and a teacher in a PS didn't notice *somewhere* along the line??? My only conclusion is that they HS, although you would think the article would have mentioned that.... Yes, they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I'm thinking it's past time for book-burning...I just can't even comment!:glare::crying: Ok, I am new to all this, so perhaps someone can inform me, do they advocate homeschooling too?? I am trying to figure out HOW a child goes through that kind of abuse, loses 30lbs, and a teacher in a PS didn't notice *somewhere* along the line??? My only conclusion is that they HS, although you would think the article would have mentioned that.... These books are popular with a certain sub-group of homeschoolers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 This is a horror beyond anything I've ever read. And still, a tiny part of me wonders with an icy chill whether Carri is now, or ever has been, here in our midst on this or other homeschooling boards we frequent. astrid I know, I thought the same... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoxcell Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I also feel sorry for her siblings, who were raised to believe that it's okay to treat a child like this. I hope that they can un-learn that in foster care. How old are the other kids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 This is a horror beyond anything I've ever read. And still, a tiny part of me wonders with an icy chill whether Carri is now, or ever has been, here in our midst on this or other homeschooling boards we frequent. astrid If she is or was a member here, she is even further without excuse. We've discussed Sean and Lydia and the others, and the wicked ungodliness of the Pearls' teachings. I hope to God I never meet another Pearl follower or supporter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 (edited) If one can do the Pearls' methods, they are much more likely to do other forms of child abuse and justify it. It is terribly sad. They just get desensitized to child abuse. And it isn't like they were going FAR from what the Pearls' said: Inresearching this book, it teaches parents to use a plumbing tool to switch your children starting around the age of 1 yrs old. The tool is described as flexible plastic tubing with a round ball on the end. Other forms of discipline taught in this book include cold water bathes to assist in toilet training or putting the children outside in the cold weather, having them miss meals and sleeping on the floor or outside as forms of punishment. Additionally, though there are more connection-based methods becoming popular, the prevailing "wisdom" is to stay in control, disconnected, with strict consequences, etc. The belief is that attachment challenged children, traumatized children, hurt children are manipulative and "bad" rather than believing that they would do differently if they could and they can if they connect with others in love and are taught life skills. You have to decide whether you believe "love is not enough" or "love never fails." Poor kids. Edited October 1, 2011 by 2J5M9K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrid Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Good point. If they did homeschool one would think it would have been mentioned. If they didn't, then did NOBODY notice the disappearance of this child from 'the system'? Pathetic. Hold on....... those kids were never IN the system. It states specifically in the affidavit that the family home schools. It also states that neither the children or their "mother" (and I use that term loosely) rarely left their property. Further, the foster parents characterized the children as extremely sheltered and unaware the outside world around them. astrid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraphina Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 My heart aches for any child being raised in a home using such methods. How does one even get to the point where they would think any of that is ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I read the whole probable cause affidavit. :confused: Any book that suggests buying a discipline tool at a plumbing supply store should be burned. I think I'm going to be sick. Ds and I were reading about the possibility of alternate universes today. I hope to heaven there are alternate universes where the Pearls don't exist and this blessed child knows what it's like to be loved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 How old are the other kids? Some of the ages are listed in the affidavit. A few are teens, I'm not sure about the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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