Lead poisoning, I am furious.

[radiobrain]

My sister and her husband are real doofuses. Seriously.

 

They have a 2 year old and a newborn. The 2 year old, had what I considered a high lead level earlier in the year... 37. It had then gone down to 18 (still high in my opinion, but whatever). Well, they applied for WIC and had to do all this mandatory medical stuff. Lead level came back at 58. They discovered metal in his stomach etc. He had to be in the hospital for several days, just horrible, heart rending stuff.

 

The thing is WTH are they doing? Paint chips from the windowsill of a newly renovated, totally redone apartment? "He must've spilled some food on the window sill and eaten some paint chips with it". WHAT!?! They should know that they shouldn't let him eat food off a windowsill... lead or not. It does not add up. What was he doing- chewing on the windowsill? The dad is the primary caregiver, and he is just a big dumb@ss who thinks he knows everything. I yelled at them for putting their fridge up on a cabinet (!), my poor nephew is allowed to suck on TOOLS or who knows what, never wears sock or shoes and is not big on hand washing, arg! Now, he is never going to be the kid he could've been. He has now had a lead level over 10 (usually way higher) for half his little life. I hate when kids pay for the ignorance, arrogance or laziness of their parents. :banghead: Much of is should have been preventable.

 

My question is this.... what are some other ways to get a really high lead level?

 

I am trying really hard not to just lay into my sister, as I know that this past week has been horrible for her (she also almost died a few weeks after she had her new baby... she started to bleed out... she is still recovering from that). But I have to do/say something. There is quite a bit of really negative history with her husband, and let's say that I would not be surprised if he did something deliberately or through idiocy. The whole family pussyfoots around it. UGH. I think if I had some info on things they can do to make sure this does not happen again, I might be able to make some headway.

 

I live 400 miles away. So, I really can't help much in reality. We also are not particularly close, she is 15 years younger than I am, and we have different dads. I hate to have my only advice be all this "How dare you do this this and this to your kid" but I might have no choice.

 

AAAAAAAAAAARG!!!!

 

Oh yeah, and they'll probably homeschool. They should not HS. They should not even be married or have kids, IMHO.:cursing: I hate to say it, but I am glad that "The State" is now somewhat involved in their lives, and I am not a fan of that sort of thing.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

in an unsafe manner.

 

See this pdf.

http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/eh/lead/fs/common.pdf

 

Honestly, the parents may not be aware of the possibility of lead dust in their apartment. They should wash the window sills down ASAP and have the apartment tested. If the apartment is older than 1930, lead may have been used in the plumbing. How many mom's use warm water to make formula or clean bottles? Warm water and lead pipes don't mix.

 

I would not go off on the parents or accuse them of neglect without knowing more.

 

hth,

K

[2cents]

My guess is that a child in hospital for lead level that high would trigger a CPS investigation and notification of environmental health services. If it doesn't, I"d be surprised! :eek: That poor child.

[radiobrain]

The building had been lead certified and gone through extensive specific renovation hoops. The rehab was partially funded by the government and had to adhere to certain standards. My mother made sure that the apartment was cleaned again, before they moved in. In a normal situation, I would say those same things... but my first thought is...what is my BIL's angle? He is already talking about suing the landlord. He is a scam artist, an opportunist and all around not believable in any way. That is why I sound a bit harsh. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if only THEIR windowsills tested high for lead. They are the first tenants in this apartment, there should not be any peeing paint.

 

They breastfeed exclusively.

 

They had only been in the apartment for a week.

 

CPS is involved, and now they have no idea where they can live.

 

Thanks so much for that .pdf. I might just mail it to them and keep my trap shut.

Edited June 19, 2011 by radiobrain

[MariannNOVA]

I'm so sorry --

 

yelling isn't going to help. You are going to have to be the adult and lead them through this as if they are two year olds. Ask me how I know this. :glare:

 

PM me if you need to.

 

I understand why you are angry.:grouphug:

[Dobela]

Soil can have high levels of lead, especially if this was once an industrial site, a parking lot, and so on. If the child plays outside, I would check the soil of the areas he frequents.

 

Lead pipes for the house.

 

Many cheap imported toys were found to have dangerous levels of lead. THink of those $1 toys and such.

[merry gardens]

My question is this.... what are some other ways to get a really high lead level?

 

.

A few years back, several toys thate were made in China were recalled because of high lead levels. It's really sad when children's toys are sources of lead poisoning! http://www.usrecallnews.com/2007/10/list-of-recalled-toys-for-lead-poisoning-hazards-childrens-toy-recalls-from-china.html

[mom2scouts]

I can't imagine how the lead levels could get that high! We lived in a very, very old house when I had my first two children. We had peeling window sills and lead paint chips in all the dirt, but my children's lead levels were never very high. I was told that that diet can have an effect on how much lead is absorbed by a child.

[butterflymommy]

I knew a family with a child with lead poisoning... it turned out he was eating dirt. Could this child have pica of some kind?

[Farrar]

I second what Marian said about yelling not helping. I knew of a family whose kids got lead poisoning and had to go to the hospital and I absolutely never thought it was *their* fault. It turned out, after a lot of investigating that the source was their backyard soil, where the kids had been helping their mom plant a flower garden. I don't think that was a stupid or supremely ignorant parent thing to do. And no, they were not eating the dirt, but they were little kids and playing in it as they helped and probably not washing their hands with the same care as a grown up. The parents had no idea that in inner cities like where I live that there's a risk in the soil like that.

 

There's a lot of different potential causes, some of which might be from poor parenting, but many of which are not.

 

It sounds like, though, that you and your sister have a long history that you're bringing to the table in assuming that this was poor parenting.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I can't imagine even a father who tends to be more careless in child care than proactive, deliberately trying to poison his child with lead. I also can't imagine lead levels getting that high in one week, though I admit that I'm no expert by any means on that. This sounds tragic and I hope that the doctors are able to give them insight in how to find the source of the problem and eradicate it.

[Excelsior! Academy]

After reading that list *I* feel ignorant. I have used warmish water to fill a baby bottle before and I have let my kids play in the dirt. Heck, I thought all kids played in the dirt. I have also vacuumed paint dust before.

[radiobrain]

I'm going to chill.

 

That is one of the reasons I thought I should post here. I needed a bit of perspective.

 

It is just frustrating, because I know that they should have been able to do more to prevent it, regardless of the situation. But, maybe not.

 

The building was a complete rehab, a beautiful old school building that has been converted into nice apartments. All the pipes should be PVC. But I really don't know. I am only going on info from my mother.

 

I am just so sorry for my nephew.

 

He does not work. He cannot hold a job, even though he has 2 kids.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

I'm going to chill.

 

That is one of the reasons I thought I should post here. I needed a bit of perspective.

 

It is just frustrating, because I know that they should have been able to do more to prevent it, regardless of the situation. But, maybe not.

 

The building was a complete rehab, a beautiful old school building that has been converted into nice apartments. All the pipes should be PVC. But I really don't know. I am only going on info from my mother.

 

I am just so sorry for my nephew.

 

He does not work. He cannot hold a job, even though he has 2 kids.

 

I am so sorry. :grouphug: If they've only lived there a week, perhaps the child was exposed to it at their prior location. How very sad for the child. I hope he continues to get medical care and the family or authorities find the cause.

 

:grouphug:

[Perry]

The whole family should be tested, if they haven't been yet. If it was high before, and they've only been in the apartment a week, there must be another source. The public health department needs to be doing an investigation.

[ciyates]

Out of curiosity why would they test for lead just because someone applied for WIC?

[Tammyla]

:iagree: And I'm sorry your nephew is suffering.

The whole family should be tested, if they haven't been yet. If it was high before, and they've only been in the apartment a week, there must be another source. The public health department needs to be doing an investigation.

[Murphy101]

My guess is that a child in hospital for lead level that high would trigger a CPS investigation and notification of environmental health services. If it doesn't, I"d be surprised! :eek: That poor child.

 

Me too!

[A.Balaban]

Out of curiosity why would they test for lead just because someone applied for WIC?

 

Lead tests are a requirement. They test lead levels in kids yearly. Someone in the WIC office could explain it better, but at least, my thinking is...

 

WIC families have lower incomes, so they have less income to spend on housing.. therefore, they are more likely to get the crappy apartments that are not built correctly and come with a plethora of problems. Lead, mold, etc.

 

If they were the first tenants, there is no way there is any peeling paint.. unless the old walls had lead-based paint and the rennovations did not correctly cover it up or the new tenants had somehow messed up the walls?

 

Where were they living before?

 

Until this is solved, I would switch to bottled water just in case, especially for the baby.

 

My son had his lead levels tested this year at his doctor's office (a requirement since he is on state health insurance), and it came back "moderately high" - I don't remember the specific numbers. I flipped because we live in an apartment that is 100+ years old and well, it's a nightmare of a place.

 

When we brought him in for a follow-up test, the level was normal so it was likely a false positive. Thank goodness for small favors.

 

I hope this whole situation gets sorted out quickly. :grouphug:

[Farrar]

Out of curiosity why would they test for lead just because someone applied for WIC?

 

I don't know for sure, but I would guess because statistically children in poverty are more likely to suffer from lead exposure - not necessarily from bad parenting, I think, but from bad environments. Though it does seem odd. Surely getting WIC isn't dependent on that?

 

If the pipes in the building are all new, it still can come from the pipes outside - some cities have never changed over the old lines than run under the streets and homes that have their own pipes all replaced may still have their hookup to the street as an older lead pipe, which is what happened here in DC. Bah.

[redsquirrel]

In NY state all children are supposed to be tested for lead at 1 and 2. At all 'kid places' there are signs "At One and Two, Lead Testing Is What To Do" (Hey, I don't write the copy). So, WIC, a ped appt, daycare centers, vax clinics, heck 'free day' at a zoo will have finger prick lead testing for free. They do them pretty much anywhere the Health Dept can get free space for a table. If it comes back high, there is a follow up and a script for a veinous test. The fingerprick test can be high from dirt on the hand etc. False high positives from the finger prick test happen all the time.

 

And, yes, if they have only lived in their current apt for a week then the lead was from before. Did they live next to a construction site? in an industrial area? Next to a major road?

[JennyD]

Our ped does the first test at 9 months IF the baby has been crawling for at least six weeks; otherwise it's at a year. (And she does blood draws, not finger sticks.) I agree with those who have said that the lead must be coming from somewhere other than their current place. I'd look first at toys and dishes.

 

But I'm so sorry for the little boy, and I hope he gets the help he needs.

[Dirtroad]

Maybe toys, maybe dishes.... but maybe the Dad too... you can't assume he wouldn't use the child to find a cash settlement, etc. We hear too much of it in the news.

 

So much lead is gone now.... especially in renovated places & so much plastic in toys.... hopefully they investigate this well. I hope it is something easy to solve & the little fellow gets well soon and has not life long problems.

[sewingmama]

Well put me in the "dumbass" catagory then because I had no idea about the risk of lead poisoning. All my kids have chewed on the windowsills -it's the right height for teething babies. I never thought a thing of it.

 

They also play in the dirt all the time and we always drink tapwater. In fact I stop boiling water for their bottles at three months old and just give them hot tapwater :nopity:

 

I've taken them to ever well baby check up they needed and lead testing has never been mentioned.

 

We have always lived in new, modern houses though -never in anything old.

 

I guess I shouldn't even mention that the other day I found a battery with the bottom chewed off - top suspect the 1 yo. I guess I should take him to get lead tested then :confused:

[Pretty in Pink]

You obviously have serious issues with your BIL. You know him better than we do, but it seems pretty intense to imply that he would deliberately poison his own son. Wow. If I really thought that about my relative I would not hesitate to contact the authorities, but I would be d*mn sure before I went around making accusations like that.

 

In any case, the child's exposure was most certainly ongoing and previous to their move one week ago. Has the entire family been tested? What sort of place did they live in before?

 

I am so sorry for your nephew. That is just terrible. :grouphug:

[Tohru]

I second what Marian said about yelling not helping. I knew of a family whose kids got lead poisoning and had to go to the hospital and I absolutely never thought it was *their* fault. It turned out, after a lot of investigating that the source was their backyard soil, where the kids had been helping their mom plant a flower garden. I don't think that was a stupid or supremely ignorant parent thing to do. And no, they were not eating the dirt, but they were little kids and playing in it as they helped and probably not washing their hands with the same care as a grown up. The parents had no idea that in inner cities like where I live that there's a risk in the soil like that.

 

There's a lot of different potential causes, some of which might be from poor parenting, but many of which are not.

 

It sounds like, though, that you and your sister have a long history that you're bringing to the table in assuming that this was poor parenting.

 

:iagree:

 

I read a news story awhile ago about a 2yo boy from a wealthy home that died from lead poisoning. It turned out he had swallowed a trinket from his 4yo sister's charm bracelet and the charm had lead in it.

 

There are so many ways for children to get lead poisoning and the majority of the time it isn't the parent's fault.

[DarlaS]

Not only cheap toys, but dollar store crayons & play dough too.

[Hot Lava Mama]

we lived in a really old house, but it had been repainted, so I figured we didn't need to worry about it. Well, he was tested in a well child check (we were asked if we lived in a house built before 1970). We had a specialist come out, and we found out it wasn't just "one" thing, but a whole collection of things that had lead in them that contributed to this high lead level.

 

Water from the pipes, paint on the walls (although it was newly painted, if it gets scratched, the dust gets in the air), the old fashioned tub, the dirt outside that he would play in, and the nozzle on the water hose outside, etc.

 

I was completely freaked out. The doctor had his blood checked on a weekly basis at first, then monthly until he was in the normal range. We had to feed him a lot of calcium to absorb the lead. You can get all kinds of calcium type things in the drug store. Tums and any kind of antacid tablets, calcuim supplements (these can be very tasty...they have chocolate flavored etc. that tastes like candy), etc. We would give him a bag of this stuff to eat every day. We had to do this until we could scramble up a different place to live. It was very scary.

 

The calcuim stuff worked really, really well. His lead level dropped really quickly. We also had to wash him in a bin (not in the tub), let the water run for a while each time (the lead goes away if you let it run), and not let him outside. If the parents care, they can manage this issue, but it's a lot of work.

 

Good luck. You seem like a caring person to worry about another persons child! FYI, high lead levels can cause brain damage and seizure disorders.

Hot Lava Mama

[AuntieM]

we lived in a really old house, but it had been repainted, so I figured we didn't need to worry about it. Well, he was tested in a well child check (we were asked if we lived in a house built before 1970). We had a specialist come out, and we found out it wasn't just "one" thing, but a whole collection of things that had lead in them that contributed to this high lead level.

 

Water from the pipes, paint on the walls (although it was newly painted, if it gets scratched, the dust gets in the air), the old fashioned tub, the dirt outside that he would play in, and the nozzle on the water hose outside, etc.

 

I was completely freaked out. The doctor had his blood checked on a weekly basis at first, then monthly until he was in the normal range. We had to feed him a lot of calcium to absorb the lead. You can get all kinds of calcium type things in the drug store. Tums and any kind of antacid tablets, calcuim supplements (these can be very tasty...they have chocolate flavored etc. that tastes like candy), etc. We would give him a bag of this stuff to eat every day. We had to do this until we could scramble up a different place to live. It was very scary.

 

The calcuim stuff worked really, really well. His lead level dropped really quickly. We also had to wash him in a bin (not in the tub), let the water run for a while each time (the lead goes away if you let it run), and not let him outside. If the parents care, they can manage this issue, but it's a lot of work.

 

Good luck. You seem like a caring person to worry about another persons child! FYI, high lead levels can cause brain damage and seizure disorders.

Hot Lava Mama

 

Are they using an older crib that has perhaps been painted/repainted with a lead based paint?

 

Does the child drink from an outdoor hose that is not intended for potable water?

 

So sorry...

[LittleIzumi]

I guess I shouldn't even mention that the other day I found a battery with the bottom chewed off - top suspect the 1 yo. I guess I should take him to get lead tested then :confused:

 

I might....

[Excelsior! Academy]

:eek:

Not only cheap toys, but dollar store crayons & play dough too.

 

:eek:

[tex-mex]

I am so sorry. :grouphug: If they've only lived there a week' date=' perhaps the child was exposed to it at their prior location. How very sad for the child. I hope he continues to get medical care and the family or authorities find the cause.

 

:grouphug:[/quote']

:iagree: If they only lived there for one week, that seems unlikely the lead originated in that new home. I am curious if they live near an EPA Superfund site -- very hazardous toxic waste by companies and the ground and water are riddled with horrid stuff. Be sure the parents get tested.

 

http://www.epa.gov/superfund/sites/

[Jean in Newcastle]

Be sure the parents get tested.

 

 

 

The fact that the mom almost died with her last delivery would make me worry that she might have been exposed too to lead or some other kind of heavy metal. I have no idea though if lead would cause excessive bleeding.

[FrogMom5]

So, is there a way to test toys in your home for lead? Sometimes I buy toys or small containers from Target's $1 bins. Are they prone to lead too?

 

Korin - I am sorry your nephew is suffering. I do understand your frustration w/parents who cause their dc needless problems through negligence and, well, stupidity. I have one of those people in my family too.

Denise

[Jean in Newcastle]

So, is there a way to test toys in your home for lead? Sometimes I buy toys or small containers from Target's $1 bins. Are they prone to lead too?

 

Korin - I am sorry your nephew is suffering. I do understand your frustration w/parents who cause their dc needless problems through negligence and, well, stupidity. I have one of those people in my family too.

Denise

 

You can get lead test kits online or from somewhere like Home Depot.

[joannqn]

You can get lead test kits online or from somewhere like Home Depot.

 

NO! Don't use these. The EPA specifically says that they are NOT reliable. There is ONE brand is that is considered acceptable to use when used by a lead professional. They give both false positives and false negatives. I've seen both personally with our old home.

[Jean in Newcastle]

NO! Don't use these. The EPA specifically says that they are NOT reliable. There is ONE brand is that is considered acceptable to use when used by a lead professional. They give both false positives and false negatives. I've seen both personally with our old home.

 

Good to know. OK - disregard what I said!

[crazyforlatin]

we lived in a really old house, but it had been repainted, so I figured we didn't need to worry about it. Well, he was tested in a well child check (we were asked if we lived in a house built before 1970). We had a specialist come out, and we found out it wasn't just "one" thing, but a whole collection of things that had lead in them that contributed to this high lead level.

 

Water from the pipes, paint on the walls (although it was newly painted, if it gets scratched, the dust gets in the air), the old fashioned tub, the dirt outside that he would play in, and the nozzle on the water hose outside, etc.

 

I was completely freaked out. The doctor had his blood checked on a weekly basis at first, then monthly until he was in the normal range. We had to feed him a lot of calcium to absorb the lead. You can get all kinds of calcium type things in the drug store. Tums and any kind of antacid tablets, calcuim supplements (these can be very tasty...they have chocolate flavored etc. that tastes like candy), etc. We would give him a bag of this stuff to eat every day. We had to do this until we could scramble up a different place to live. It was very scary.

 

The calcuim stuff worked really, really well. His lead level dropped really quickly. We also had to wash him in a bin (not in the tub), let the water run for a while each time (the lead goes away if you let it run), and not let him outside. If the parents care, they can manage this issue, but it's a lot of work.

 

Good luck. You seem like a caring person to worry about another persons child! FYI, high lead levels can cause brain damage and seizure disorders.

Hot Lava Mama

 

Don't most of us live in old houses:confused:?

 

How many did you give to him per day? The antacid I have has 400 mg for every 2 tablets. I'm curious what the doctor recommended. I know there are other supplements that can combine with lead and leave the body.

[kolamum]

Was't there a food recall recently due to lead exposure?

[happypamama]

In addition to what everyone else has said about dishes, toys, water pipes, paint, etc., if they have an older car, they might want to have the keys tested. We had an issue a long time ago with a slightly elevated lead level (thankfully never as high as you mention your nephew going -- *that* is scary high!), and the county sent someone out to evaluate the house, water, soil, etc. They couldn't find anything that had lead in it, except for my set of car keys. I'd occasionally let DD play with them, and she was prone to putting things in her mouth. We are pretty sure that's what the issue was, because when I started making sure she never played with them, her levels dropped quickly.

 

Does anyone in the home shoot guns? There can be lead associated with that too. Or, even if their home has been properly remediated for lead, if anyone works near old houses, they can be bringing lead home. My DH works for a company that renovates old homes, and if he's been in any of them, he showers immediately when he comes home, keeps his shoes outside, etc. Especially when we have a crawling baby in the house.

 

There are special soaps made for removing lead from skin. Also, if they've been exposed to lead, they should wash their hands in *cold* water, not warm; warm water opens up the pores and lets more lead absorb into the body faster.

 

Calcium and, IIRC, vitamin C are good for helping lead leach out of the body, but it sounds like your nephew needed a more heavy-duty treatment.

 

Mom needs to get her lead levels tested too, since she's nursing, so she's not passing that along to the baby too.

[SailorMom]

Didn't scroll through - running out of time - but do they fish?

Lead fishing weights are a possibility. Also - some pellets used for guns have a lead core.

Some parents have no clue that they need to keep those things away from kids, and i could see a 2 year old thinking they looks like something tasty....

[radiobrain]

Finally got to reading all of these.

 

Thanks for a lot of good ideas. So you all know, the state came in and tested the apartment....the windowsills came back as containing lead (but I don't know how high, and they were newly painted etc).

 

The thing is that my mother and I both explained all the lead hazards, things to do to help prevent it, etc etc when the level was 37. But see, that means nothing. The two of them, and mostly my BIL, think they are great parents, and disregard any BTDT advice. They think they are doing all the right things... they nurse, use cloth diapers, etc. but they are too casual about the other stuff. Like handwashing, and letting him put things in his mouth, eating random things, etc etc. That is what is so frustrating. I know that they cannot control certain exposures, but they seem to be dropping the ball on important other things... which would require adequate supervision, or a sense of what is correct or not.

 

I am just sick for my nephew. He is now having to take a nasty medicine 3X a day for 3 weeks. I don't know how they can do it. I am afraid they won't do it cause "It's just so hard".

 

Also, her medical condition was due to the placenta not being checked adequately, and a piece was left in. I guess it took 3 weeks to present a problem.

[coffeefreak]

Out of curiosity why would they test for lead just because someone applied for WIC?

 

Until we were unemployed and using WIC and Medicaid, we were never checked for lead. We were also never grilled about homeschooling (nurse made my dd sing her ABC's and asked her a plethora of other questions because she wasn't being "monitored" by a public school), never asked if my kids ate dirt or other non-food objects, and their iron levels were never checked. I was confused at first because the nurse was treating me like we had never been there before. But then, I realized everything had changed because of Medicaid (our chart was marked). I think they do it because statistically, poorer families also have poor nutrition and poorer living conditions. We also have a lot of families still on well water here and well water is naturally higher in lead. I think they should ask EVERYONE in the state at well-child appointments, but that's just me.

 

As for your nephew Radiobrain, :grouphug:. Will the state now monitor him for cognitive abilities and growth? Doesn't their WIC office require parenting classes? Are they going to start at-home visits to look into the parenting part of this? They would here.

 

Blessings!

Dorinda

[Excelsior! Academy]

I justremembered this thread. They ought to have the child tested for hemochromatosis. It is an iron overload disease. Basically your body absorbs more iron than most people. It is very dangerous, but can be managed easily by donating blood and watching what you eat. I think the only way to find out for sure is through a dna test.

[Swirl]

.

Edited July 6, 2011 by Swirl