s/o punctuality

[Word Nerd]

Do you consider punctuality to be essentially a personality trait that some people have and some don't, or do you consider it more of a life skill that should be learned and developed, regardless of personal preferences or inclinations? Some combination of the two? Neither?

 

:bigear:

[Shellydon]

Life skill that is learned regardless of personal preferences.

[SailorMom]

I think this has more to do with being a naturally considerate person or not. I find it very rude and inconsiderate of people when they are consistently late. I'm not talking the occasional screw up or traffic issue. Most people like this are not only inconsiderate in their lateness - it shows up in many other ways.

[regentrude]

Combination.

To some people it comes easily, because they are organized (which also is something that is part learned, part personality trait). And if you are organized, you will have planned for calamities, you will know where all stuff is that needs to be taken, when to leave to make it on time, etc.

 

OTOH, it can, and IMO should, be learned. If parents make it clear that being late is not acceptable in the same way as talking rudely, eating with bad table manners, not taking care of personal hygiene are not acceptable, children will learn.

I believe humans are adaptable and can learn and are not doomed by their genetics to be chronically late.

[Ester Maria]

I am almost tempted to say that no, some people cannot learn it, and that a particular set of nations filled with many such people living around the Mediterranean sea should just be collectively cut some slack in this particular aspect of their lives. :tongue_smilie:

 

On a more serious note, of course that it can be learned, like any other life skill of that type, if you have to learn it.

 

Punctuality is one of the aspects of my life where I am a slacker and where I allow myself to be a little bit imperfect. I am quite often a few minutes (okay, 10-15 :lol:) late and if you want to work or meet with me, well, you will just have to live with it, I am sorry. Everyone that has ever worked with me has been forewarned. When I have to travel or appear somewhere where I cannot be late (some formal occasions, opera, whatnot), I behave as though I have to come half an hour earlier, but honestly, I just find it too much a bother to behave that way all the time. So I am late.

[Meriwether]

I think it is both. I think punctuality comes more easily to some personalities than others. I also think people should learn it whether it is easy for them or not.

[Murphy101]

Life skill that is learned regardless of personal preferences.

 

:iagree:

[Pretty in Pink]

Life skill. Learned behavior.

 

I do think it's rude to *always* be late. It's a bad habit to fall into. I understand that getting out the door with a large family or with littles can be difficult though. And I understand that, for some people, the habit is deeply ingrained and does not necessarily reflect their level of respect or consideration for myself or others (I know that some will disagree with that statement).

 

I know some very generous and kind individuals who are habitually late wherever they go.

[twoforjoy]

I'd say it's probably a combination of both. But, punctuality and the social response to it vary so much by culture--even, I think, within the U.S. (my California friends tend to be chronically late and not see it as a big deal)--that I'm not inclined to judge based on it or demand punctuality in social settings.

[elegantlion]

Combination.

To some people it comes easily, because they are organized (which also is something that is part learned, part personality trait). And if you are organized, you will have planned for calamities, you will know where all stuff is that needs to be taken, when to leave to make it on time, etc.

 

OTOH, it can, and IMO should, be learned. If parents make it clear that being late is not acceptable in the same way as talking rudely, eating with bad table manners, not taking care of personal hygiene are not acceptable, children will learn.

I believe humans are adaptable and can learn and are not doomed by their genetics to be chronically late.

 

:iagree: Punctuality is my pet peeve. If I was chronically late for a job, I wouldn't have one for very long. If people are chronically late for get together, it appears to me that they don't value MY time. I won't even get started on events that don't start on time, big, big annoyance.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Combination.

To some people it comes easily, because they are organized (which also is something that is part learned, part personality trait). And if you are organized, you will have planned for calamities, you will know where all stuff is that needs to be taken, when to leave to make it on time, etc.

 

OTOH, it can, and IMO should, be learned. If parents make it clear that being late is not acceptable in the same way as talking rudely, eating with bad table manners, not taking care of personal hygiene are not acceptable, children will learn.

I believe humans are adaptable and can learn and are not doomed by their genetics to be chronically late.

 

:iagree: While I agree that it is an important behavior to learn, it is easier for some than for others. There are also cultural factors that come into play. I have friends from Central America who do not understand our exactness about time. I usually give moms with small children some slack because little ones can be unpredictable.

 

I am always anxious if I am late as I hate to put anyone else out, but I struggle with being on time. No matter how far ahead I plan, often something derails me at the last minute. When my children were little, they would ALWAYS have a diaper blow out as we walked out the door - never just a small poop, but a big, poopy mess that required a clean up and change of clothes for baby and me. The only times this didn't happen was if dh was taking the kids out of the house. (Poop on Mom, but not on Dad.) Now that my kids are older, we are on time much more often.

 

Dh is usually a very punctual person (to the point of showing up 15 minutes early for everything - including our dates - catching me right out of the shower. ) Interacting with my family as well has having children has mellowed his punctuality a bit. He is on time for the important things like work and church, but has learned the art of not showing up when the hostess is vacuuming.

[Audrey]

Do you consider punctuality to be essentially a personality trait that some people have and some don't, or do you consider it more of a life skill that should be learned and developed, regardless of personal preferences or inclinations? Some combination of the two? Neither?

 

:bigear:

 

Good question. I believe it is, technically, a life skill.

 

Personally, I am very annoyed by people who are consistently late. From people who work under me, I cannot tolerate it. Occasional lateness usually carries an acceptable reason with it (my car wouldn't start, my kid puked in my briefcase this morning, an accident had traffic backed up for 1/2 an hour, etc.) If someone is consistently late and gives those reasons, I start to get suspicious. I'm willing to cut people some reasonable slack, but I can't stand people who try bs their way out of their own ineptitude.

 

That said, there are a very, very few people from whom I can tolerate lateness. Generally, I believe it is partly their personality and partly their lack of time management skills. At my good job, there is my boss, for example, who is a real sweetheart. Truly, I cannot imagine a more pleasant person for whom to work. But, she is chronically late. I accept this from her because I know that others consistently over-demand her time, and that she does not mean anything rude by it at all. She is just over taxed. She knows that she could use some time management skills upgrading, but it would mean just one more thing on her plate. So... she has taught me a lesson about lateness, and now I really try not to jump to judgement on people who are always late.

[joannqn]

It's something that anyone capable of telling time and doing some basic math can do.

[Barb_]

Do you consider punctuality to be essentially a personality trait that some people have and some don't, or do you consider it more of a life skill that should be learned and developed, regardless of personal preferences or inclinations? Some combination of the two? Neither?

 

:bigear:

 

Some people have it and some don't. But it is an essential skill to develop if you are one of the unlucky, because in our culture showing up late is one of the ruder things you can do.

[Karis]

I'm amazed that some people will let other things go/ make allowances for misc. stuff but be real sticklers about punctuality. I know it's a pet peeve. We've all got something that's annoying.

 

I'm on time if by myself.

 

Add a child or two and/or a hubby and... oh well...

 

we get there when we get there. sorry... but unless it's a major thing, I don't stress it.

 

Life is too short. Some may think it's rude but so is neglecting another's food preferences and folks do THAT ALL the time.

 

My closest friends are more relaxed anyway. If someone has a problem just tell us to arrive at a different/ earlier time.

 

You could also see this as a control issue for some. Are people getting offended because their time/ their desires/ THEIR plans are "off" because of someone else's "perceived" tardiness?

 

Honestly, the four people who matter the most to me are always on time as long as we are together. We don't sweat the small stuff.

[Barb_]

It's something that anyone capable of telling time and doing some basic math can do.

 

Disagree. It's more than that. I know because I used to be chronically late no matter how much time I would allow. I think it's more a function of distractability and a difficulty prioritizing (I'd sit down to sew on a button five minutes before I had to be into work...that sort of thing). Now I'm on time down to the last minute even when unexpected things happen to slow me down. It's uncanny.

[Barb_]

 

Life is too short. Some may think it's rude but so is neglecting another's food preferences and folks do THAT ALL the time.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of children heading out into the world. Friends are one thing, but teens who habitually show up late to work, class or other appointments are at a serious disadvantage.

[Karis]

I was thinking more along the lines of children heading out into the world. Friends are one thing, but teens who habitually show up late to work, class or other appointments are at a serious disadvantage.

 

 

Work/ class/ appts... always on time

 

some social thing... no

[Farrar]

It's a learned life skill mostly. Like any life skill it can be more challenging for some people than others. It comes naturally to some and others have to get full on interventions to get it.

 

If people are late in professional contexts it *really* gets to me. If people are late coming to a small group or a dinner party or something... much less so. I worked with people (in a school no less) who were consistently late and that bothered me to no end. I thought certain people probably deserved to be let go because of it. If you don't show up on time to a job, an interview, an appointment, or anything like that, then that's a problem, especially if it's often the case.

 

On the other hand, there's a cultural component. If people show up late to a park day, a dinner party, my writing group, my small family co-op... Eh. Sometimes it's a problem or an annoyance, but overall, it's not something I'm going to let get to me. And if it's the culture of a group (the homeschool group, the writing group, the playgroup, the dinner party group...) then I think that's fine.

[FrogMom5]

Learned skill. My mom is always late - always. So, that's what I learned. Then I went college and unlearned it. I've been punctual ever since and I teach my kids to be punctual too.

Denise

[Barb_]

Do you consider punctuality to be essentially a personality trait that some people have and some don't, or do you consider it more of a life skill that should be learned and developed, regardless of personal preferences or inclinations? Some combination of the two? Neither?

 

:bigear:

 

Curious as to what prompted the thread :bigear:

[cathmom]

I think it's a cultural construct and I hate the pejoratives associated with it. I do my best to be on time and I am usually, but if I am late, it doesn't mean I am an inconsiderate, selfish jerk. It just means I'm late. :001_smile:

[Ester Maria]

Do people really, really care about that? How if I gave private lessons to your kid, often came 10-15 minutes late, but never cheated on your time, strictly speaking (i.e. what if I "counted" the time for the lesson from when we started working, not from when it was scheduled, and, in fact, what if I have been less than a formalist and not necessarily ending the same minute the time is out but, if needed, staying a bit longer too)? And if you were forewarned that dynamics with me is such and such? Would it really be a deal-breaker, the fact that I am often late?

 

What if I was really good at what I was doing, very professional, etc.? Would you really not wish to work with me because I had a tendency of being a bit late?

 

Just trying to find out how people feel about it.

[Barb_]

Do people really, really care about that? How if I gave private lessons to your kid, often came 10-15 minutes late, but never cheated on your time, strictly speaking (i.e. what if I "counted" the time for the lesson from when we started working, not from when it was scheduled, and, in fact, what if I have been less than a formalist and not necessarily ending the same minute the time is out but, if needed, staying a bit longer too)? And if you were forewarned that dynamics with me is such and such? Would it really be a deal-breaker, the fact that I am often late?

 

What if I was really good at what I was doing, very professional, etc.? Would you really not wish to work with me because I had a tendency of being a bit late?

 

Just trying to find out how people feel about it.

 

It wouldn't bother *me* but other people may have a problem with it. They may have to get another child to baseball or make a dinner appt or whatever and would have trouble scheduling around a lesson with a mushy ending time. I'm careful not to schedule things tightly, hence my late-life skills in punctuality.

 

Barb

[Farrar]

Curious as to what prompted the thread :bigear:

 

I assume it was this thread.

 

Do people really, really care about that? How if I gave private lessons to your kid, often came 10-15 minutes late, but never cheated on your time, strictly speaking (i.e. what if I "counted" the time for the lesson from when we started working, not from when it was scheduled, and, in fact, what if I have been less than a formalist and not necessarily ending the same minute the time is out but, if needed, staying a bit longer too)? And if you were forewarned that dynamics with me is such and such? Would it really be a deal-breaker, the fact that I am often late?

 

What if I was really good at what I was doing, very professional, etc.? Would you really not wish to work with me because I had a tendency of being a bit late?

 

Just trying to find out how people feel about it.

 

For something that I was paying you for? Huh. If it was in my own home and I wasn't going to the teacher, then, eh, I personally could probably deal with it - especially if, in the interview for us to choose the teacher, you said something like, "I try to be on time, but honestly, I run a busy schedule and I'm often a few minutes late but I promise you'll have the full time." But (and I was one of the only voices saying that lax co-op starting times wouldn't bother me) I feel like most people would find it pretty unprofessional and would not be okay with that. And I get it. When money is being exchanged, it's harder to let things like that go.

[Pink Fairy]

Do people really, really care about that? How if I gave private lessons to your kid, often came 10-15 minutes late, but never cheated on your time, strictly speaking (i.e. what if I "counted" the time for the lesson from when we started working, not from when it was scheduled, and, in fact, what if I have been less than a formalist and not necessarily ending the same minute the time is out but, if needed, staying a bit longer too)? And if you were forewarned that dynamics with me is such and such? Would it really be a deal-breaker, the fact that I am often late?

 

What if I was really good at what I was doing, very professional, etc.? Would you really not wish to work with me because I had a tendency of being a bit late?

 

Just trying to find out how people feel about it.

 

It would depend on how big of an impact your lateness had on my family. Some days we have other activities to do, and might need that extra 15 minutes. What I would probably do is ask to move our scheduled appointment, say 12:45 instead of 1pm. Then you when you got there at 1pm, it wouldn't inconvenience me.

[twoforjoy]

And if it's the culture of a group (the homeschool group, the writing group, the playgroup, the dinner party group...) then I think that's fine.

 

I've had to adjust to the fact that, among the moms in my neighborhood, punctuality is not seen as a particularly important virtue. So if somebody says their party is starting at 1, and I show up at 1, I can guarantee that I'll be the first one there by at least 20 minutes. If a friend and I agree to meet at 2, and I show up right at 2, I can pretty much be assured that it's going to take 15 minutes for them to get things ready with their kids and get out the door.

 

At this point, I just find it easier and more practical to adjust my expectations than to hope people to change or to sever relationships over the issue. I still find myself compulsively showing up places on time, but now I go prepared to wait for other people, and do my best not to let it bother me.

 

Plus, we all have our issues. I have a tendency to be caught without a diaper or baby wipes or a bottle or something else because, in my haste to get out the door so I can get somewhere on time, I didn't take everything I needed. If my friends can live with my needing to borrow diapers and sippy cups from them, I can live with their being late.

[elegantlion]

Do people really, really care about that? How if I gave private lessons to your kid, often came 10-15 minutes late, but never cheated on your time, strictly speaking (i.e. what if I "counted" the time for the lesson from when we started working, not from when it was scheduled, and, in fact, what if I have been less than a formalist and not necessarily ending the same minute the time is out but, if needed, staying a bit longer too)? And if you were forewarned that dynamics with me is such and such? Would it really be a deal-breaker, the fact that I am often late?

 

What if I was really good at what I was doing, very professional, etc.? Would you really not wish to work with me because I had a tendency of being a bit late?

 

Just trying to find out how people feel about it.

 

Ten minutes I could deal with. If someone were fifteen minutes or more late on a regular basis, I would ask them if we could adjust the start time for their convenience.

 

 

I also understand the season of life issue. When ds was younger we would travel to his friends homes because it's easier to get out of the house with one child.

 

It also depends on if it's a group get together. If the start time is more ___ish, than stated it's not a big deal. If it's a meeting or class I expect it to start on time, at least out of respect for those who have commitments afterward.

[Impish]

Do people really, really care about that? How if I gave private lessons to your kid, often came 10-15 minutes late, but never cheated on your time, strictly speaking (i.e. what if I "counted" the time for the lesson from when we started working, not from when it was scheduled, and, in fact, what if I have been less than a formalist and not necessarily ending the same minute the time is out but, if needed, staying a bit longer too)? And if you were forewarned that dynamics with me is such and such? Would it really be a deal-breaker, the fact that I am often late?

 

What if I was really good at what I was doing, very professional, etc.? Would you really not wish to work with me because I had a tendency of being a bit late?

 

Just trying to find out how people feel about it.

I'd find someone else. Seriously. If a person can't be prompt for what I'm paying them for, then they obviously don't care that much about their job. My time, my children's time is valuable, and I dislike wasting it.

 

I would never hire anyone that announced that they were habitually late. Being habitually late is unprofessional.

[texasmama]

I think it is a life skill which should be learned. I cannot think of any situation, business or personal, in which lateness is a beneficial trait, so I will teach my kids to be on time or a bit early, just as my parents taught me.

[Ester Maria]

Wow... a bit shocked by the answers. :001_unsure: Thank you for your replies, however.

 

Would it not matter the least bit if I was really the best around in what I did? Would punctuality, and thus professionality, for you come even at expense of expertise and having to go with the lower quality?

[Barb_]

Wow... a bit shocked by the answers. :001_unsure: Thank you for your replies, however.

 

Would it not matter the least bit if I was really the best around in what I did? Would punctuality, and thus professionality, for you come even at expense of expertise and having to go with the lower quality?

 

Only if you were temperamental and had a Russian or French accent :D Then I could tell myself it is a cultural thing, and what can you do?

[texasmama]

Do people really, really care about that? How if I gave private lessons to your kid, often came 10-15 minutes late, but never cheated on your time, strictly speaking (i.e. what if I "counted" the time for the lesson from when we started working, not from when it was scheduled, and, in fact, what if I have been less than a formalist and not necessarily ending the same minute the time is out but, if needed, staying a bit longer too)? And if you were forewarned that dynamics with me is such and such? Would it really be a deal-breaker, the fact that I am often late?

 

What if I was really good at what I was doing, very professional, etc.? Would you really not wish to work with me because I had a tendency of being a bit late?

 

Just trying to find out how people feel about it.

 

My boys' piano teacher often runs over with lessons, putting her behind all day 10-15 minutes. We go to her home for lessons. This does not bother me, and I am one of those people who believes in being on time. She is a good teacher, and I know that sometimes a student before us might show up late and make the other lessons late. No big deal to me.

[twoforjoy]

Do people really, really care about that? How if I gave private lessons to your kid, often came 10-15 minutes late, but never cheated on your time, strictly speaking (i.e. what if I "counted" the time for the lesson from when we started working, not from when it was scheduled, and, in fact, what if I have been less than a formalist and not necessarily ending the same minute the time is out but, if needed, staying a bit longer too)? And if you were forewarned that dynamics with me is such and such? Would it really be a deal-breaker, the fact that I am often late?

 

What if I was really good at what I was doing, very professional, etc.? Would you really not wish to work with me because I had a tendency of being a bit late?

 

Just trying to find out how people feel about it.

 

It wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me, in that context. If a babysitter who would be watching my children while I was at work was late, that would be, because that would affect my ability to get to work on time.

 

I'd probably ask if we could adjust the start time, though, if it was something that happened more often than not.

[Daisy]

I'm sorry but I think it is basic manners to do what you say you are going to do. If someone says they will arrive at 9am, they ought to be there or have a very good reason (emergency) for not being there.

 

I deal with this constantly within the homeschool community and specifically field trips. Every single field trip sees the few of us who show up on time making excuses for those who feel they can show up 30 minutes late. It has gotten to the point where guides for the field trips are reluctant to book homeschoolers because so many are not dependable.

 

My brother also deals with this all the time. As a graphic designer and magazine editor he is frequently down to the wire waiting for slackers to get their work turned in. What do you think he does? He fires their butts because their chronic lateness puts the reputation of the entire magazine in jeopardy.

 

It is definitely a trait that CAN be learned (ask my hubby). He got quite the wake-up call when he left me stranded in the middle of the worst part of town because of his own "absent-minded professor" lateness. It has taken him years but he is now one of the most punctual people I know.

[regentrude]

Do people really, really care about that? How if I gave private lessons to your kid, often came 10-15 minutes late, but never cheated on your time, strictly speaking (i.e. what if I "counted" the time for the lesson from when we started working, not from when it was scheduled, and, in fact, what if I have been less than a formalist and not necessarily ending the same minute the time is out but, if needed, staying a bit longer too)? And if you were forewarned that dynamics with me is such and such? Would it really be a deal-breaker, the fact that I am often late?

What if I was really good at what I was doing, very professional, etc.? Would you really not wish to work with me because I had a tendency of being a bit late?

 

 

Honestly: if I had to plan my work schedule so that I can leave to be in time for the lesson, or had a following commitment for which *I* would now have to be late because you were not on time: yes, it would bother me greatly. No matter how good you were at your job.

Maybe if I were home all day, had nothing planned and could not care less when somebody comes, I might be more easygoing. But if I have to make an effort structuring my time, I would be annoyed.

If I liked you extremely well, I might be able to chalk this up as idiosyncrasy and live with it (our piano teacher was like that) . My kids would definitely comment about it and wonder why she can't ever be on time (they did with the piano teacher).

 

Now, if it was really consistent and ALWAYS 15 minutes late, we would just KNOW that you're not coming at 5, but at 5:15, and plan accordingly. (But then don't you DARE be punctual once and break the pattern!):)

[Impish]

Wow... a bit shocked by the answers. :001_unsure: Thank you for your replies, however.

 

Would it not matter the least bit if I was really the best around in what I did? Would punctuality, and thus professionality, for you come even at expense of expertise and having to go with the lower quality?

To me, being on time is a key component of being professional. So, that would immediately make you less professional, not the best around.

 

I would feel disrespected. And I'm not paying someone for that.

[Daisy]

Wow... a bit shocked by the answers. :001_unsure: Thank you for your replies, however.

 

Would it not matter the least bit if I was really the best around in what I did? Would punctuality, and thus professionality, for you come even at expense of expertise and having to go with the lower quality?

 

If you are consistently 15 minutes late, I'd suggest we change the start time. If you are always late and it varies wildly (10 minutes to 30 minutes) and in spite of trying to adjust the start time, I wouldn't contract with you. Well, unless maybe you want to pay me for sitting around and waiting for you. :D

[angela in ohio]

Life skill that should (and can) be learned and developed. Like many other necessary skills, some people find it easier and some have to work at it more.

[SailorMom]

To some, being 10-15 minutes late is no big deal, and they can't see why it is to others. For me - my life is so over-scheduled as it is, that I don't really want to stand around for 15 minutes waiting for someone. I could have been home finishing up a project, or working on a paper, etc. I have had dinner parties where one family was 30 minutes late, on a weeknight, and dinner was to be served 20 minutes before (tight time schedule), and that left 3 other families letting food get cold in order to be polite. And no - there was no good excuse, they just "didn't see the big deal".

 

Also - there are people who are not only sometimes (often times) late, but who occasionally forget to show up at all.... So.... do I wait for 5 minutes? 10? When do I decide, "they forgot."? Do I call and ask? Would that embarass them?

 

I'm not annoyed with "show up at a BBQ late occasionally" type stuff... but I would be one of the people who would not hire the piano teacher. I'm sorry - but IMHO - there is no excuse for habitual lateness (note - I said habitual - I too have had babies who blow out diapers and puke on car seats). If piano lessons tend to run long, or late, then space out the appointments more.

Edited May 19, 2011 by SailorMom

[BarbecueMom]

I try to be on time, rarely late, but never EVER early. I grew up with a mother who was chronically, obscenely early to everything. I remember being picked up from a pool party once in junior high by my mother. The pick-up time was 2:00pm. As I was walking to the parking lot at 1:50pm, she was running at me, screaming at me for being "late". To her, 2:00pm meant 1:30pm at the very latest. She's better about it now, thanks to Xanax.

 

I guess, personally, on time is best, but I prefer always late to always early.

 

ETA: About the music lessons, I've taken and given lessons for many years. A half-hour lesson can be 25 minutes long or 45 minutes long, depending on when you've reached a good stopping point. I would be unhappy with a teacher that cut-off a productive lesson just because time was up when a few extra minutes could have been really beneficial. And I would not feel gypped if the lesson ran a bit short if there wasn't enough time to start something else.

Edited May 19, 2011 by BarbecueMom

[Ester Maria]

Thank you everyone for your responses to my sidetrack. :) A fascinating read.

Just one more thing, I cannot resist:

To me, being on time is a key component of being professional. So, that would immediately make you less professional, not the best around.

But what if the person who is not punctual the best around in terms of expertise? I am really sorry for pushing this so far (sorry OP for the sidetrack), but I am really interested where people's red lines are.

 

Languages are one area where this is felt very well. You have an option between a teacher for language X who is born and bred in the country where X is spoken, has attained fancy advanced degrees on X universities, has a genuine accent, lives the culture, etc. And then you have the other option, typical X majors, usually without extended stays in a place where X is spoken, who still make some "learner" mistakes and who just cannot reasonably compete with X expert from Xland (there are exceptions, naturally). And for argument's sake let us assume money is not an issue and you can pay both (obviously, the first profile will probably always cost you more, late or not). Would you really opt for lesser quality only because of one's tendency to be late, even if you knew that the sole fact you have an access to that profile of a teacher in the first place is pretty much akin to winning a lottery, if learning X is important to you? Would you still not be able to swallow it, no matter what?

(Not trying to change your mind or anything, just really interested in how people to whom punctuality matters think about these stuff. :))

[dirty ethel rackham]

If I knew ahead of time (like when signing up), I would probably be ok as long it wasn't more than 10 minutes or so. But, with 3 kids with their own activities, my schedule is often fairly tight. With no warning, lateness might mess up the rest of my schedule. I had to fire my previous piano teacher because of unprofessional behavior - lateness when he knew I had a tight schedule, answering personal calls during a lesson, last minute cancellations. The lateness alone was enough for me to quit him, due to our schedule issues.

[Impish]

Thank you everyone for your responses to my sidetrack. :) A fascinating read.

Just one more thing, I cannot resist:

 

But what if the person who is not punctual the best around in terms of expertise? I am really sorry for pushing this so far (sorry OP for the sidetrack), but I am really interested where people's red lines are.

 

Languages are one area where this is felt very well. You have an option between a teacher for language X who is born and bred in the country where X is spoken, has attained fancy advanced degrees on X universities, has a genuine accent, lives the culture, etc. And then you have the other option, typical X majors, usually without extended stays in a place where X is spoken, who still make some "learner" mistakes and who just cannot reasonably compete with X expert from Xland (there are exceptions, naturally). And for argument's sake let us assume money is not an issue and you can pay both (obviously, the first profile will probably always cost you more, late or not). Would you really opt for lesser quality only because of one's tendency to be late, even if you knew that the sole fact you have an access to that profile of a teacher in the first place is pretty much akin to winning a lottery, if learning X is important to you? Would you still not be able to swallow it, no matter what?

(Not trying to change your mind or anything, just really interested in how people to whom punctuality matters think about these stuff. :))

It really wouldn't matter the expertise. I wouldn't pay someone to disrespect me, and that's what being habitually late would be, esp when they're the more expensive option. The more they cost, the more professional they should be.

 

As the employer, I have the right to expect someone is prompt. Someone that can't be bothered to be on time isn't worth the money to me. It would set a bad example for my kids. Someone that can't show up on time for their job isn't someone that considers their job very important, imo.

 

I really fail to see why or how someone being habitually late *should* be acceptable, esp when they're being paid for their time. Seems to me that the onus should be on them to adjust, not the employer.

[elegantlion]

Thank you everyone for your responses to my sidetrack. :) A fascinating read.

Just one more thing, I cannot resist:

 

But what if the person who is not punctual the best around in terms of expertise? I am really sorry for pushing this so far (sorry OP for the sidetrack), but I am really interested where people's red lines are.

 

Languages are one area where this is felt very well. You have an option between a teacher for language X who is born and bred in the country where X is spoken, has attained fancy advanced degrees on X universities, has a genuine accent, lives the culture, etc. And then you have the other option, typical X majors, usually without extended stays in a place where X is spoken, who still make some "learner" mistakes and who just cannot reasonably compete with X expert from Xland (there are exceptions, naturally). And for argument's sake let us assume money is not an issue and you can pay both (obviously, the first profile will probably always cost you more, late or not). Would you really opt for lesser quality only because of one's tendency to be late, even if you knew that the sole fact you have an access to that profile of a teacher in the first place is pretty much akin to winning a lottery, if learning X is important to you? Would you still not be able to swallow it, no matter what?

(Not trying to change your mind or anything, just really interested in how people to whom punctuality matters think about these stuff. :))

 

IMO it's a matter of mutual respect. If you are teaching my child I would assume you have certain homework requirements, practice requirements, or someway he would have had to prepare for your class. If he continually was late with his homework, continually was not prepared for class, I suspect you would bring that to his or my attention.

 

I would feel the same way about promptness, it's a business expectation. As I stated earlier, ten minutes might not concern me if you were coming to my home. However, chronic lateness makes it appear you either A. don't have good time management skills, B. don't put value on my schedule, or C. are over scheduled and need to adjust more than my appointment.

[Ellie]

It is irrelevant to me whether someone is born that way or not. I only care that people show up on time. They should do whatever it takes to make that happen.

[JennyD]

Honestly: if I had to plan my work schedule so that I can leave to be in time for the lesson, or had a following commitment for which *I* would now have to be late because you were not on time: yes, it would bother me greatly. No matter how good you were at your job.

Maybe if I were home all day, had nothing planned and could not care less when somebody comes, I might be more easygoing. But if I have to make an effort structuring my time, I would be annoyed.

If I liked you extremely well, I might be able to chalk this up as idiosyncrasy and live with it (our piano teacher was like that) . My kids would definitely comment about it and wonder why she can't ever be on time (they did with the piano teacher).

 

Now, if it was really consistent and ALWAYS 15 minutes late, we would just KNOW that you're not coming at 5, but at 5:15, and plan accordingly. (But then don't you DARE be punctual once and break the pattern!):)

 

This interchange between regentrude and Ester Maria is kind of cracking me up. If ever there was evidence that punctuality is a culturally constructed value ....! :tongue_smilie:

 

I have a friend from Germany who actually did switch her son's music teacher because the teacher -- who was wonderful in every other way -- was consistently late. It drove her absolutely over the edge. I have also had the memorable experience of being in a car with her when we were stuck in traffic and going to be LATE for a class.

 

I read a great article a while ago about chronic lateness -- there was a woman who was always, always late and the article chronicled a sort of 'makeover'/education process about it. Apparently the crux of the issue was that she consistently underestimated the time it would take to do each step of the process of leaving and getting to her destination.

 

People where i live tend to be reasonably on-time, so I do the same. I don't mind terribly if someone else is late, though, but in general I will not wait for them very long.

Edited May 19, 2011 by JennyD

[Geo]

You could also see this as a control issue for some. Are people getting offended because their time/ their desires/ THEIR plans are "off" because of someone else's "perceived" tardiness?

 

 

 

Ha!...I'm glad you had the nerve to say it. I was just thinking about how to touch on this point. Really, any extreme is off-center. I guess everyone needs to check the motives for their attitudes/behavior. Are we truly guided by deference and honor...or "self"-ishness?

 

Geo

Edited May 19, 2011 by Geo

[Garga]

Do people really, really care about that? How if I gave private lessons to your kid, often came 10-15 minutes late, but never cheated on your time, strictly speaking (i.e. what if I "counted" the time for the lesson from when we started working, not from when it was scheduled, and, in fact, what if I have been less than a formalist and not necessarily ending the same minute the time is out but, if needed, staying a bit longer too)? And if you were forewarned that dynamics with me is such and such? Would it really be a deal-breaker, the fact that I am often late?

 

What if I was really good at what I was doing, very professional, etc.? Would you really not wish to work with me because I had a tendency of being a bit late?

 

Just trying to find out how people feel about it.

 

Wow... a bit shocked by the answers. :001_unsure: Thank you for your replies, however.

 

Would it not matter the least bit if I was really the best around in what I did? Would punctuality, and thus professionality, for you come even at expense of expertise and having to go with the lower quality?

 

 

Are you American? It's a big deal in most of America--to be on time. People get fired for tardiness quite often.

 

Wasting someone else's time is considered rude because it implies that you believe your activities/life to be more important than the other person. So if you're good at what you do, and then tell people up front, "I'm always late," the message conveyed is, "I'm soooo good at what I do and since you need my services, I'll force you to sit there and wait while I dawdle around doing whatever it is that I do... And if you had other plans for after the lesson, well forget that! You'll just have to let your life revolve around ME and when I'll deign to show up to teach you."

 

It makes you sound like a high maintenance diva. I would never hire someone who did that knowingly. If you know you have a problem being on time---YOU have a problem being on time and I wouldn't let your problem with time become MY problem with time.

[Impish]

I don't understand how 20-30 mins + is 'perceived' tardiness. Its late.

 

5-10 mins, it happens. Socially, doesn't bother me.

 

20 mins +, on a regular basis, I don't have the paitence for at all. Again, to me, its about respect. I'd rather someone rebooked than showed up a half hour late...frankly, I'd leave around the 20 min mark.