Deciding to require DS to respond "yes ma'am/sir"

[kchara]

I guess I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around why an adult would be offended at a child calling them sir or ma'am. :confused: I've always considered it a sign of respect.

 

 

And, of course, we're weird cuz we have him call others by Mr, Mrs, Ms or Dr... (whatever the person's title) Some don't care for that, and I have a friend who is by her first name.... but with others, it's just the relationship I'm willing for my child to have with adults. Anything other than title and last or first name, is too intimate for my child and another adult.

 

:iagree: Especially with the bolded part. When my children have addressed adults by their title and last name, I've had people correct them with everything from using nicknames, to "Grandma __________," "Uncle ________," even had one person tell my kids to just call her "Mom." Everyone else did. :001_huh: Uh, no. That's incredibly offensive to my family, to assume that my kids, who just met you, will call you by a family title. Plus, in our home, kids don't get to have the same relationship with adults as adults do. It's a different type of relationship, and it's demonstrated by the use of title and last name. in our home, it's a sign of respect for adults.

 

I might be weird, but it really irritates me when kids I don't know or have just met call me by my first name. I didn't give them permission, and it comes across as entirely too familiar and rude to me. I grew up in the midwest, maybe it's similar enough to the south for that to be a regional thing. ((shrug))

[Plucky]

Oh, a who rather than a what. Gotcha!

 

Well, I am pretty conservative, though I know lots of folks that are even more so. :)

 

That is why she was asking. You post a lot like pqr. I know pqr though, he doesn't have a problem at all being himself. Welcome to the boards, Sheldon. :D

[Shellydon]

That is why she was asking. You post a lot like pqr. I know pqr though, he doesn't have a problem at all being himself. Welcome to the boards, Sheldon. :D

 

Thanks! I am definitely not a he -- that should clear things up! I will keep my eyes peeled for pqr, we should get along famously. :)

[Plucky]

Thanks! I am definitely not a he -- that should clear things up! I will keep my eyes peeled for pqr, we should get along famously. :)

 

Yes, you will. :001_smile:

[Parrothead]

Thanks! I am definitely not a he -- that should clear things up! I will keep my eyes peeled for pqr, we should get along famously. :)

Oy! A female pqr! I'm in trouble now.

 

 

 

 

 

LOL Welcome to the madness that is the Hive.

 

 

 

Oh, to answer the OP. No, we do not expect dd to say ma'am or sir. Which is surprising since dh is from the deep south were that is expected. Since I am back on my home turf, I go with Mr./Mrs./Dr./Fr./ Last Name along with Yes, please and No, thank you. I really don't like to hear "Yeah" coming from a child.

[Wamommy]

West coasters here. I don't care for the whole sir and mam thing. The one time that a teenager referred to me as a mam, it made me feel really old. I cringe to be called Mrs. Lastname and ask to be called by my first name. Where I live, it is most common for adults to be referred to by first names.

[Shellydon]

Yes, you will. :001_smile:

 

Oy! A female pqr! I'm in trouble now.

 

 

 

 

 

LOL Welcome to the madness that is the Hive.

 

 

 

I am going to have to figure out how to do a search and look up this person!

[RoundAbout]

This is what we do as well.

 

Also, if someone not VERY close to our family asked my child to call them by their first name, we would correct them.

 

To us, first name basis implies a certain level of intimacy? Friendship? Not sure what word to use..

 

But if they aren't very close to our family, we would find it very weird for them to be called by first name and wonder why they were insisting on claiming a level of relationship with our child/family that isn't really there.:001_huh:

 

 

I guess what I find odd is that the quirks of Southern culture are chalked up to politeness while other cultural norms are not. Where I come from using first names for adults who are friends of the family and using Mr./Mrs. for strangers is the norm. In Hawaii its standard for children to refer to older adults with the generic title 'auntie' and 'uncle' even if you just met them. Its not rude or presuming any kind of intimacy, its just a cultural norm (one that sounded odd to me at first, but I grew accustomed to after living there). In both cases using sir/ma'am would be not quite rude, but probably very odd and maybe inappropriate.

 

Perhaps the sir/ma'am thing is difficult for me to understand because I come from a more liberal west-coast background, or maybe because my husband is a military officer and calling someone 'sir' has all kinds of implications beyond simple courtesy. I think some of us are just pointing out that sir/ma'am doesn't necessarily get a positive response in all environments - I know so few people who do this in the home that it actually strikes me as a bit creepy when I hear it (no offense to anyone, its just that weird and unusual for me).

[TJinLOCA]

My parents were southerners, and I was raised calling all adults Sir or Ma'am (especially my own parents - woe to the child in our house that responded "Yeah?" instead of "Yes Ma'am?" when called!)... but when I went to college I discovered I was the only one my age that did that! :lol:

 

When I had kids I didn't make them call me or their dad ma'am and sir, but I did teach them to respond to other adults that way. It's just polite, IMO. I've never had anyone be annoyed by it (we live on the West Coast now); more often people tell me how unusually polite my kids are! :)

[Joy at Home]

Regional indeed. In the NE it is rarely heard. I teach my kids to be respectful, but parroting ma'am and sir as a rule just sounds stilted and robotic to me.

 

Lisa

[unsinkable]

I am going to have to figure out how to do a search and look up this person!

 

If you go to advanced search, just put "pqr" in under poster's name.

 

FWIW, I like pqr...I wasn't trying to slam either one of you. :001_smile:

[Clover11]

I always like it how my southern friends tell their kids to call me "miss (my first name)" . It sounds so sweet.

 

 

I think that's adorable, too!

 

 

 

I guess you would faint if you knew that my kids call me by my first name, lol.

 

 

 

My 3.5yr old dd will call us by our first names sometimes, and has for a few years. It doesn't bother me at all :)

 

 

 

 

 

Teens and young adults are a different story, but mostly this has to do with a sullen lack of eye contact which is a huge pet peeve of mine.

 

I have a huge problem with this as well. We are working on this with my 12 yr old ds. He doesn't mean anything by it, but it's terribly rude IMO.

 

We have our children say yes ma'am and sir, but aren't too strict with it. Sometimes I think we should except it more, especially when talking to people outside of our home.

[yellowperch]

I'm curious, OP: why do you want your child to speak to you this way? What does it represent for you? What would it mean to you if he used this form of address? Why is it important? As a northerner, I'm interested in the cultural significance of this sort of thing.

[Embassy]

I guess I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around why an adult would be offended at a child calling them sir or ma'am. :confused: I've always considered it a sign of respect.

 

I've lived in 12 different states and 3 countries so far in my life. I wouldn't be offended if a child called me that, but hearing ma'am comes across as somewhat patronizing to me. When I worked with children my preference was to be called by my first name. Most parents had no problem with that.

[SonshineLearner]

To me it's polite :) Many times I say "yes ma'am or sir" while speaking with others. When I am doing Info Meetings for instance, I say "yes ma'am" when a lady raises their hand... etc... It's acknowledgement and polite, at least the way I was raised... :)

[Haiku]

wonder why they were insisting on claiming a level of relationship with our child/family that isn't really there.:001_huh:

 

I want to be called Tara because that is my name and that is how I think of myself. It has nothing to do with any presumed relationship with your family. In my case you would be interpreting incorrectly if you assumed there was anything more to it than that.

 

Tara

[Capt_Uhura]

Interesting conversation!

 

I grew up saying "yes ma'am and no sir." I haven't taught my kids to say it. Mostly "yes thank you or no thank you or yes please." I have them address adults as Mrs. X or Mr. Y unless instructed differently by that person.

 

I know at one time, Louisiana was considering make a law that public school kids had to address the teacher as Mr. Last name or Ms. Last name. While I was in school, you would never, ever, never, ever (did I say never?) call a teacher by his/her first name. Not ever. Even when I return home and see my teachers, they try to insist that I can now call them by their first name...I. just. can't. do. it. Now my cousin who stayed in the town, after being around our teachers as an adult for so long, is now quite comfortable calling them by their first name.

 

I do call people "yes ma'am and sir" when out in public occasionally. I've had people smile at me for doing so....probably giving away my Southern upbringing as much as I disguise my accent.

[In2why]

Interesting. I guess if I had an acquaintance or friend that felt this way, we'd no longer be acquaintances or friends.

 

Different strokes.

 

 

I agree. I don't require my kids to use maam or sir, but they call every adult Ms. or Mr First name if we know them well, or Mr. and Mrs. Last Name if we don't. If an adult insisted that my child call them by their first name, that wouldn't be acceptable.

[Rivka]

I grew up in the north, so to me Ma'am and Sir are terms that I use to address strangers. It would feel distant and cold to me to have my own children address me as Ma'am.

 

However, I am fully aware that these are my reactions because of my culture. I understand that there are other cultures in which it doesn't have those connotations at all. I hope that people from those cultures will similarly keep in mind that in our culture it is not disrespectful for my child to give a cheerful "Okay!" when responding to a direction.

 

I have been working with my just-turned-six-year-old lately on showing respect, but we're mostly working on issues of tone of voice, facial expression, and failure to acknowledge being spoken to. I can fully 100% tell whether my child is being respectful or not based on her voice and body language. I don't need her to say, or not say, Ma'am. ;)

 

Edited to add: we live in Baltimore now, which is the edge of the south, and here children are taught to say Miss or Mr. Firstname as a title of respect. It sounds weird to me because it's not how I was raised, but I'm teaching my children to do it so that their manners will meet the prevailing standard. Similarly, I expect my kindergarten-age Religious Education students to call me "Miss Rivka." I drop that expectation at middle school age.

Edited April 16, 2011 by Rivka

[JeneralMom]

I hate being called ma'am and I would request that a child not commonly refer to me that way. I am okay with being called by my first name or Miss FirstName, or even Ms. LastName.

 

I do not find it disrespectful the first time, but if I ask not to be referred to as ma'am and it continues, then I do find it disrespectful.

 

My children are extremely well mannered, answer "yes, please", "no, thank you" but I would never have them refer to someone as ma'am or sir but if someone insisted on it I would explain it to the children, and we would go from there.

[Parrothead]

This is what we do as well.

 

Also, if someone not VERY close to our family asked my child to call them by their first name, we would correct them.

 

To us, first name basis implies a certain level of intimacy? Friendship? Not sure what word to use..

 

But if they aren't very close to our family, we would find it very weird for them to be called by first name and wonder why they were insisting on claiming a level of relationship with our child/family that isn't really there.:001_huh:

My mom was like you with the first name basis being a no-no for children.

 

I want to be called Tara because that is my name and that is how I think of myself. It has nothing to do with any presumed relationship with your family. In my case you would be interpreting incorrectly if you assumed there was anything more to it than that.

 

Tara

My mom had a friend like you who insisted she was Suzie not Mrs. Smith.

 

 

I figured out how to address or get the attention of mom's friend without ever using a name, but it was difficult for the first year or so. Maybe you two will never meet IRL, but if you do, cut the kids some slack. :D

[QueenCat]

Edited to add: we live in Baltimore now, which is the edge of the south, and here children are taught to say Miss or Mr. Firstname as a title of respect. It sounds weird to me because it's not how I was raised, but I'm teaching my children to do it so that their manners will meet the prevailing standard. Similarly, I expect my kindergarten-age Religious Education students to call me "Miss Rivka." I drop that expectation at middle school age.

 

I think the Miss Firstname is more modern. I grew up in the Baltimore/Washington area (graduated high school in '83, for a time reference). We called adults Miss Lastname. We NEVER used sir or m'am (big trouble if you did, considered very disrespectful).

[BarbecueMom]

Around here, when I hear "ma'am", it's usually in a customer service context. Either the cashier/manager pulls the "ma'am" card when they aren't going to cave to the customer, or the customer pulls the "ma'am" card when she (it's usually a she) tries to bully the cashier or cause a scene. I wouldn't say it's a term of respect, but rather one woman trying to take the upper hand over another woman.

 

That being said... while I was reading this thread, I overheard my 2yo playing with his trains. "James, you are to go to Brendham Docks. Yes, sir!" :lol:

[PeterPan]

We didn't start out this way, because I thought it was overkill. Well let's just say I changed my mind, lol. Now they BOTH say Yes Ma'am, even the apraxic 2 yo who hardly says much else. Even he can say "Yeah ma'am" and know what it means. So if he can, your perfectly fine 5 yo (or whatever age) can. You tell them what you expect, give them the words, and require it. It's like anything else, you get what you expect, inspect, and tolerate.

[Capt_Uhura]

I'm trying to think of the occasions when I've used it. Recently, a man dropped some money. I couldn't run by him b/c I was holding DD so I yelled out "Sir! Sir! Excuse me, Sir!" and he turned around and I told him he dropped his money. I guess I could have said "Man! Hey Man!" or "Hey you!" "Old man!" "Excuse me, Sir!" just sounded so much nicer. It would have never occurred to me that people would think sir and ma'am are offensive.

Edited April 16, 2011 by Capt_Uhura

[QueenCat]

I'm trying to think of the occasions when I've used it. Recently, a man dropped some money. I couldn't run by him b/c I was holding DD so I yelled out "Sir! Sir! Excuse me, Sir!" and he turned around and I told him he dropped his money. I guess I could have said "Man! Hey Man!" or "Hey you!" "Old man!" "Excuse me, Sir!" just sounded so much nicer. It would have never occurred to me that people would think sir and ma'am was offensive.

 

In that context, I doubt anyone would find it offensive. Practical.

[Forget-Me-Not]

Perhaps the sir/ma'am thing is difficult for me to understand because I come from a more liberal west-coast background, or maybe because my husband is a military officer and calling someone 'sir' has all kinds of implications beyond simple courtesy. I think some of us are just pointing out that sir/ma'am doesn't necessarily get a positive response in all environments - I know so few people who do this in the home that it actually strikes me as a bit creepy when I hear it (no offense to anyone, its just that weird and unusual for me).

 

:iagree: Another West coaster here. I only ever use Sir or Ma'am when I'm addressing a stranger.

 

I don't know of *anyone* who requires this of their children around here. I have some extended family that require it of their children, and frankly they parent VERY differently from me--I find some of their techniques bordering on abusive, so the whole thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I have to remind myself that not everyone who requires this of their kids is parenting this way, it's just that it's been almost my only exposure to it, KWIM?

 

I mostly get called Mrs. Lastname around here. Or 'Sister Lastname' if they are of the same faith. I've encountered a few kids who call me by my first name but it doesn't bug me.

[Renthead Mommy]

I'm trying to think of the occasions when I've used it. Recently, a man dropped some money. I couldn't run by him b/c I was holding DD so I yelled out "Sir! Sir! Excuse me, Sir!" and he turned around and I told him he dropped his money. I guess I could have said "Man! Hey Man!" or "Hey you!" "Old man!" "Excuse me, Sir!" just sounded so much nicer. It would have never occurred to me that people would think sir and ma'am was offensive.

 

I don't think people find it offensive in this sense. This is in reference to strangers. Like when you get a customer service type call, they'll refer to you as ma'am, which most people admit is better than listen to them them mangle your name as they insert it into their script.

 

It's found offensive when it's not a stranger. When answering the teacher or the neighbor or the other mom with a "Oh yes ma'am!", picture it more like "yeah right, whatever" with an eye roll. That's the way many people see that response.

[kimnc]

Perhaps the sir/ma'am thing is difficult for me to understand because I come from a more liberal west-coast background, or maybe because my husband is a military officer and calling someone 'sir' has all kinds of implications beyond simple courtesy. I think some of us are just pointing out that sir/ma'am doesn't necessarily get a positive response in all environments - I know so few people who do this in the home that it actually strikes me as a bit creepy when I hear it (no offense to anyone, its just that weird and unusual for me).

 

I was raised in the south AND in the military, and we were always taught to say sir/ma'am to ANY adult. The first time I ever heard a negative response to it was from an army sargent who quite hostilely said, "Don't call me 'sir', I work for a living." I was baffled at this statement (and still am).

 

It is just polite here. I still address people with sir/ma'am.

[TXBeth]

For us, it depends on context. When responding to an instruction, our kids say "Yes, Mommy" or "Yes, Daddy." Or at church or to a teacher "Yes, Mr. Craig," "Yes, Miss Bonnie."

When responding to a question about preference, like "Do you want grape jelly?" they would say "Yes, please" or "No, thank you."

When responding to a question asking information, like "Did you like that movie?" then just "yes" or even "yeah" or "yep" is fine with me.

 

Also, in any situation, it's the attitude that matters more than the exact words. So if I say "Please go spend 10 minutes cleaning up your room now," I'd rather hear a sweet, cheerful "Okay" than a sullen, angry "Yes, Mommy."

 

When introducing our kids to new adults, we generally either ask what they would like to be called or say "Miss/Mr. FirstName." Or if they are very close friends, sometimes "Aunt/Uncle FirstName." We really are not comfortable with our kids calling adults just by their first names, BUT I am a firm believer that each person has the right to choose what they are called (this always comes up in stories about in-laws who want to be Mimi and G-daddy; unless they are choosing "Mommy" I think it's their choice). So if a friend really wanted our kids to call her by her first name, we would allow it.

[Guest mrsajoy]

We taught our kids to respond with "ma'am" and "sir"--practically everyone around here does (Deep South). We prompted them from the time they were little, and it became automatic.

 

We did the same thing. Even dh and I refer to each other that way:) And when they say 'yes/yeah or no' we ask 'What do you say?' and they'll respond with the ma'am or sir. My four year old dd already automatically corrects herself.

[Haiku]

If an adult insisted that my child call them by their first name, that wouldn't be acceptable.

 

I find it very odd that someone wanting to be called by the name they prefer is unacceptable. To me that means you are making someone else's name choice all about YOU and what YOU want even though it's THEIR name and therefore THEIR choice. Honestly, why should YOU get to decide what someone else is called?

 

Tara

[EKS]

I remember as a kid having a conversation with my father about this. He said that our family wasn't the military and I was not to call my parents sir and ma'am.

[DarlaS]

You'd stop being friends with someone who didn't like being called ma'am? :confused:

 

I thought the point was being respectful but IMO, it isn't respectful to call someone something they don't like.

 

I would not like to be called Ma'am either, but would not correct someone's child (especially a little kid) for doing what the parent expected of them. My discomfort with it is my problem.

[Shellydon]

I find it very odd that someone wanting to be called by the name they prefer is unacceptable. To me that means you are making someone else's name choice all about YOU and what YOU want even though it's THEIR name and therefore THEIR choice. Honestly, why should YOU get to decide what someone else is called?

 

Tara

 

 

To *me* it this isn't about the adult. It is about teaching my child proper manners. It would be like letting my child wear some of those awful pants with the name on the fanny or a revealing swim suit just because those clothes were a gift and the adult giver said those clothes were just fine.

 

Does that make sense?

[Sahamamama]

We teach our three daughters to answer us with "Yes [No], Mommy" or "Yes [No], Daddy." We were surprised at the difference this training made in their attitudes and level of respect. We had no idea that "Mommy" or "Daddy" on the end would make such a difference in how they relate to our authority and how they honor us (not just obey with a "yeah"). I suppose it reminds them that we ARE their parents, that we care... we set guidelines out of love for them.

 

We don't want our girls to answer us with "Ma'am" or "Sir," (too formal) but we do plan to teach them to answer other adults with this (in a year or two). Right now, they are always with us, and we would rather they not have too much awe of other adults. :001_smile: But by the time the girls are 8, 9, 10, I think they should be able to answer adults with a respectful "Ma'am" or "Sir."

 

We are not from and do not live in the South. After asking here about the bugs in the South, Lord willing, we never will. :svengo:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257097

[Shellydon]

No it does not make sense to me. It's not comparable. If I want to be called Wendy, how is that like asking you to dress your child in objectionable clothing?

 

 

Because I find a child calling an adult by their first name every bit as objectionable as them dressing in immodest clothing. Again, for me, this is not about the adult, this is about the child.

[regentrude]

I usually ASK people with whom my kids interact on a regular basis how they would like to be addressed by my children- unless it is clear-, so i can instruct my kids accordingly. My neighbor would like to be called Miss Rosemary. Many of my friends would like to be called by their first name . The piano and riding teachers want to be called by their first names. Teachers at school: Mr/Mrs Lastname.

For anybody they don't know well, the kids use Mr/Mrs Lastname - until the adult directs them otherwise.

Kids are smart and able to deal with different ways of addressing different people. One can address an adult by first name and still show good manners and be respectful. And one can be rude and ill mannered while saying Ma'am.

[Shellydon]

Actually, it's about you and what you want.

 

 

Well yes, it is what I want for my child.

[Kalmia]

I am certain this is a regional thing. I hear the west coast set say that it makes them uncomfortable. I am from the northeast and it is not the norm there, but I don't think people would object to it. "Ma'am" does sort of carry the connotation of referring to an old person in the northeast. So maybe that's what is offensive to some people. It is much safer to use "Miss," probably until a woman is in her 100s. In the northeast Ma'am and Sir are the words someone who doesn't know you at all would use to get your attention--if you left your wallet behind at the cash register or that you'd see in the greeting on a form letter. Used as such it seems to connote a complete lack of intimacy.

 

People are often addressed by Mrs. Ms. or Mr. in the northeast. First names are common as well. Here it would never indicate a lack of respect. It's just...well... your name.

 

We even called several of our high school teachers by their first names by their request (private school). I never felt that there was any more intimacy implied between myself and these first name teachers versus those whom we called Mr. or Ms. It was just their preference--many of them were very counter-cultural in general and it seemed to suit their personalities.

 

That being said, I've spent a lot of time in the south lately with relatives and the ma'am and sir seem to fit perfectly into conversation there. It is a lovely habit and grows from deep cultural roots as do the differering traditions of the west, east, and midwest. Let's enjoy our regional differences!

 

Anyway, the OP wanted to know "how" to teach ma'am and "sir" not whether teaching them was a good idea or not.

[SonshineLearner]

Because I find a child calling an adult by their first name every bit as objectionable as them dressing in immodest clothing. Again, for me, this is not about the adult, this is about the child.

 

I don't find clothing and titles to be the same. But, what I do think is that you are requiring your child to acknowledge a title of an adult, that isn't by the other adults choosing, but rather yours. I'm not sure how far I would go to go against another adult. I do understand it's uncomfortable or not what some adults wish. I don't imagine that if the queen said, "Please, call me Liz" that you would go against that. But, I also can't imagine her doing so. I do believe that a title is an acknowledgement of authority, and that for me as an adult, reminds me that I am to be of the "adult world". Of course, laundry, dishes, and children screaming in the background, do too. :)

[Shellydon]

But if I'm your close friend and you value how I feel, you would really be upset that I want your children to call me Wendy? If someone calls me something I don't want to be called then it's a lot like just saying "hey you". It might come down to a regional/traditional difference, but I'm still human. I might still be a friend worth having. I don't get how this is almost akin to a deal breaker for a friendship.

 

 

If you were a close friend we might be able to compromise and go for Ms. Wendy. :D

[justamouse]

Because I find a child calling an adult by their first name every bit as objectionable as them dressing in immodest clothing. Again, for me, this is not about the adult, this is about the child.

 

It's respectful of the child to call the adult what the adult wants to be called.

 

I prefer a first name, myself, for my own very valid reasons.

[Shellydon]

It's respectful of the child to call the adult what the adult wants to be called.

 

I prefer a first name, myself, for my own very valid reasons.

 

I agree. When a kid that is close to me calls me Ms. or Miss Wendy it's like they don't see me as close to them at all. I'd be upset if my kids called me that.

 

 

I think I'll have to move on the agree to disagree portion of the show now.

[Rivka]

To *me* it this isn't about the adult. It is about teaching my child proper manners. It would be like letting my child wear some of those awful pants with the name on the fanny or a revealing swim suit just because those clothes were a gift and the adult giver said those clothes were just fine.

 

Does that make sense?

 

You're begging the question. What constitutes "proper" manners differs according to culture and context. If I can presume to speak from Tara's perspective: to her, calling her by a name she dislikes is the opposite of "proper manners" - it's rude. To you, deviating from your chosen set of titles is rude.

 

It's fine for you to have your own expectations for your family, and if you only interact within a culture that shares those expectations, you'll be fine. But around here, where cultures and standards differ, you'll go further if you concede that you are talking about your own preferences, not some objective standard of "proper manners."

[yucabird]

I am from the South but am living in Mexico, in an area where English is frequently spoken. My kids may be the only ones around here that use “ma’am†and “sir†and Miss and Mr. (first name, usually). I will ask someone if the girls may refer to them as Miss (first name) or if they would prefer Miss/Mrs. (last name). My children are young; otherwise, they could do the asking. If someone insisted my child call her by first name, then I would allow it; however, I can’t imagine a friend doing this.

 

We have yet to encounter anyone who is bothered by how my girls address them. On the contrary, people frequently comment on their manners. “Ma’am†and “sir†are respectful terms and really should not be considered rude unless said in a sarcastic manner (e.g., mocking-military tone). I am surprised people are offended.

[Audrey]

We have decided DS (5) needs to start answering us with "yes ma'am" and "yes sir". Anyone else teach their kids to respond to them this way? I don't mean just to a random stranger, but actually to you and dh? How do you teach it? Just by prompting? We know *no one* who teaches their kids this (even though we live in the South!) but we think it will be a good change.

 

Any thoughts or insights on how to make this change happen would be much appreciated...

 

 

Umm... sorry, but no. That is just a big NO in my bluntly honest opinion. I haven't read any of the other posts, and I'm not about to argue this, but that's just wrong as far as I'm concerned.

 

In my culture (and I am from the South), saying "yes ma'am" and "yes sir" was reserved for adults in authority positions outside the family. While they are words of respect, they are also words that indicate a distance in relationship.

 

If I heard a child saying "yes ma'am" and "yes sir" to his parents, I would think that child were either a) in biiiiiiiggggg trouble with said parents, or b) said parents were iron-fisted authoritarians.

 

Either way, I would feel pretty sorry for that kid.

Edited April 16, 2011 by Audrey

[Ellesmere]

nm

[SonshineLearner]

Umm... sorry, but no. That is just a big NO in my bluntly honest opinion. I haven't read any of the other posts, and I'm not about to argue this, but that's just wrong as far as I'm concerned.

 

In my culture (and I am from the South), saying "yes ma'am" and "yes sir" was reserved for adults in authority positions outside the family. While they are words of respect, they are also words that indicate a distance in relationship.

 

If I heard a child saying "yes ma'am" and "yes sir" to his parents, I would think that child were either a) in biiiiiiiggggg trouble with said parents, or b) said parents were iron-fisted authoritarians.

 

Either way, I would feel pretty sorry for that kid.

 

Wow, sorry that's how you think about it. My son is the cutest, with an incredible sense of humour. He is just a sweet kid, with a joking side that is just starting to really blossom. The other day, he was thinking he was a real brain for thinking of calling me like he calls the dog. And, he's 7, so it wasn't rude. It was actually a "Wow, you think you're pretty smart, eh??" kind of moment. He's just hilarious.

 

And, when he's called, and responds with a "yes ma'am" my heart melts because he's just so darn sweet. He's a joy, and not afraid of anything or anyone.... so... it really just is how a child's personality works, and how their parents treat them. I can say that he's just as naughty as the next person sometimes.... but I wouldn't say that he feels in trouble.... He just is a kid that kind of takes to "manners" as he knows them. He also says "please and thankyou" without reminders. (We didn't ever say, "what do you say?" we just modeled...)

 

Oh well, :(

[Caitilin]

You're begging the question. What constitutes "proper" manners differs according to culture and context. If I can presume to speak from Tara's perspective: to her, calling her by a name she dislikes is the opposite of "proper manners" - it's rude. To you, deviating from your chosen set of titles is rude.

 

It's fine for you to have your own expectations for your family, and if you only interact within a culture that shares those expectations, you'll be fine. But around here, where cultures and standards differ, you'll go further if you concede that you are talking about your own preferences, not some objective standard of "proper manners."

 

:iagree:

And isn't the POINT of manners to be courteous to your interlocutor? If you call that person something which they perceive as disrespectful, how can that BE proper manners?

 

For instance, what if as a child, your only frame of reference for clergy was a Catholic priest. Then one day, you meet a Baptist minister, and not knowing better, refer to him as "Father." The first time, I am sure the minister would smile and say, something like, "actually, I am Pastor Smith/Reverend Smith/Pastor John." But if you then continued to refer to Pastor Smith as Father Smith, that would be rude, wouldn't it, because that's not the right way to address him?

 

To me, this seems like an analogous case. Child calls you ma'am; you smile and say, "actually I prefer to be called Mrs. Smith/Miss Jane/Jane." if child continues to ignore what you say, then his "ma'am" ceases to be courteous, and becomes actually both discourteous and disrespectful.

 

And finally, I would never require or desire my kids to call me "ma'am;" I did not grow up under that paradigm and to me it sounds both stilted and fake. I myself only use it with those whom I consider as my superior in experience, such as a much older person, or in knowledge, as perhaps a professor or clergy person, or a work authority. And the last one would probably really be pushing it!:D