Do your children respect your home? Do they destroy it?

[Parrothead]

Dd9 (sigh) has a pig sty as a room.

What we need is a "show your child's messy room thread." While I do expect the entire rest of the house to be presentable 98% of the time I do let dd do what she will (or wont') in her room. There is a path from the bed to the door that dh insists on so he doesn't step on sharp pointy toys when we tuck her in at night.

[CalicoKat]

This morning I woke to find three of the four boys laying around the living room, arguing over Netflix. There was food everywhere -- orange peels, empty bowls and glasses in the floor (empty glasses turned on their sides, up against the baseboards), cheerios and raisins strewn about the entire room and dumped out on the sofa, a half-eaten cup of applesauce overturned next to the sofa, laundry baskets turned over, books lying about, a huge tub of Legos dumped out, and blankets and pillows belonging to three of them. In addition, in the kitchen there were food and dishes everywhere -- peanut butter open on the counter, bread open, cereal out and open, butter knives (where someone had attempted to slice an orange), cookies (where the 2yo raided the cookie jar), and rice flung all over the floor (I am guessing the 2yo did that).

 

This rooms were spotless when they went to bed last night;

 

they aren't even supposed to watch television without asking, or touch the Playstation, which is necessary to view Netflix;

 

they aren't supposed to eat before we get up, nor are they to eat in the living room;

 

the 2yo is never to be taken out of his crib in the morning by anyone other than myself or dh;

 

and the list goes on.

 

And this was all between 6:15 (when dh left) and 7 (when I got up).

 

And then there is the other stuff -- drawing on the carpet with pastels (this was the 7yo and, yes, the art supplies are stored out of reach, but my 12yo takes them out all. the. time. and doesn't put them away, or takes them to his room, though he knows he isn't supposed to).

 

Trashing the bathroom every. single. night. when they go in to brush their teeth.

 

Soaking the bathroom floor every. single. time. they take a bath.

 

Completely trashing their rooms on a daily basis. Even our 12yo will just throw his school books on the floor, jam his papers under his bed or in a desk drawer instead of putting them in his notebooks, sneak drinks.snacks into his room and leave the dirty dishes. Ugh.

 

I am losing my mind. They have chores. I do make them clean up their own messes, which is exhausting in itself. I've told them not to get out of bed in the morning until I come to get them -- they don't listen. They say they forgot. They just won't stop doing this stuff over and over and over. I have tried grounding and revoking privileges. I do praise them for chores well done, as appropriate. What am I doing wrong?

 

Is this my lot in life? Is this sort of behavior tolerated in your home? How do you handle it? We didn't behave this way growing up; we knew we would get our butts whipped for stuff like this!

My mother tells me these are signs of intelligent children.

[sewingmama]

Yes that is exactly what happens to my house every day -except that my oldest is only 4. I thought it was a little kid thing that they grow out of - I'm soo depressed to see that they don't.

 

Now off to sulk around in depression at the thought of having to deal with this for another 15 years or so.

[Nestof3]

Oh, I forgot to mention that Nathan used to gnaw on furniture. Thankfully, he outgrew it. He gnawed on his bed and on our dresser. He said it was because he was hungry at night. :confused: I don't think his behavior was deliberate -- my boys have always had their strange, quirky issues. A touch of Aspergers and autism, I think. (I'm being serious, not flippant)

 

Today has been full of reminders, but I pretty much figure that's my job at their ages. "You know, put your lunch dishes away." I come back in the kitchen and see them in the sink. "Guys, away doesn't mean in the sink. Each person is responsible for cleaning up his mess and sometimes that of others. Put your dishes in the dishwasher."

 

I don't get problems when I say, "Guys, come get your clean clothes and put them away."

 

I assume they really aren't paying attention, and dishes left in the living room or toy room don't bother them. They bother me, though.

 

I was never told or reminded to clean up when I was young. In fact, I was dusting my parents' dressers before I was old enough to reach the top of my dad's chest of drawers without standing on a chair. The fact that I need to TELL someone to clean up is beyond me.

 

But, I've done it once, with Aaron, and I'll keep on doing it.

 

I do think that honestly kids require more attention from us than we really want to give. If I were having issues with kids sneaking food, trashing the room with it, etc. -- I would be concerned. But, if the kids were hungry because I had to sleep in late consistently for some reason, I think it would be good to come up with a plan.

 

Perhaps have easy to serve your-self foods available for consumption in the morning. Cheese sticks and orange slices or something like that. Have a fun, educational movie sitting in the room. Maybe even have a blanket ready to sit on.

 

I usually sleep later than the boys as well. In fact, Ben has set his alarm for 5 am several times in order to have time playing before school. :001_huh: I have discouraged this on a regular basis because he gets too tired later in the day, but even when they were younger, Nathan almost always got up before me. He was never one to get into anything, though. He would just play on his own.

 

I think in your situation, you could some up with some sort of options of what they can do if they get up earlier, involving the food thing. Perhaps link loss of privileges for special treats and stuff to their lack of respect regarding the food thing.

 

You could always enforce a no video game rule in the morning. Placing the controllers in your room at night would help. I always tried to have good videos available for morning viewing.

[KristinaBreece]

Yes that is exactly what happens to my house every day -except that my oldest is only 4. I thought it was a little kid thing that they grow out of - I'm soo depressed to see that they don't.

 

Now off to sulk around in depression at the thought of having to deal with this for another 15 years or so.

 

Me, too.

[Snickerdoodle]

 

Oh, I forgot to mention that Nathan used to gnaw on furniture.

I totally forgot about that. I remember noticing the banister in our house had been chewed up in some places.

[Lovedtodeath]

I'm curious about something. What would you do if you did take away privileges, made him write sentences, made him do service work for other family members, etc? What if you made him stand in the corner when he was little, clean up the mess he had made again and again and again and again? What would you do if you tried carrots instead of sticks and were consistent with it? How about if you even tried spanking for a while out of desperation? How about tomato staking for weeks on end?

 

What would you do then if a child still did these things and said he forgot? Beat him? Kick him out of the house?

 

Or might you realize that not everything can be solved by force or bribes or even neurotic degrees of consistency, the implementation of which gives mom ulcers?

 

I'm not trying to argue. Truly. I'm simply trying to show the other side of this coin. I guess I have a tender, wounded spot from the zillions of parents who have said or implied that I just didn't discipline enough, wasn't consistent enough.

 

This is no reflection on you--because I do have my own baggage over this issue--but I have come to the conclusion that parents of entirely neurotypical children are often the first ones to be proud of their achievements as parents...while berating the parents of non-neurotypical children as "not being good parents". This hurts.

 

Once again, I'm just trying to offer another perspective. Yes, this is a sore point with me. :o

:iagree::iagree::iagree:Okay I just have to jump in and agree with Natalie on this one and give her a :grouphug:. I am in violent agreement.

 

A kid with sensory disorder, ADHD what have you can't do a lot of things that parents typically train into their typical children. I know because I was one and I am now an adult with the same issues. I simply don't notice things or completely forget them sometimes and punishing me or training me does not help. Really, it doesn't.

 

Reminding (because I honestly forget or don't notice) in a nice manner is welcomed and needed though.

[Mom in High Heels]

I'm curious about something. What would you do if you did take away privileges, made him write sentences, made him do service work for other family members, etc? What if you made him stand in the corner when he was little, clean up the mess he had made again and again and again and again? What would you do if you tried carrots instead of sticks and were consistent with it? How about if you even tried spanking for a while out of desperation? How about tomato staking for weeks on end?

 

What would you do then if a child still did these things and said he forgot? Beat him? Kick him out of the house?

 

Or might you realize that not everything can be solved by force or bribes or even neurotic degrees of consistency, the implementation of which gives mom ulcers?

 

I'm not trying to argue. Truly. I'm simply trying to show the other side of this coin. I guess I have a tender, wounded spot from the zillions of parents who have said or implied that I just didn't discipline enough, wasn't consistent enough.

 

This is no reflection on you--because I do have my own baggage over this issue--but I have come to the conclusion that parents of entirely neurotypical children are often the first ones to be proud of their achievements as parents...while berating the parents of non-neurotypical children as "not being good parents". This hurts.

 

Once again, I'm just trying to offer another perspective. Yes, this is a sore point with me. :o

 

 

I'm not going to address most of this, as Parrothead said most of what I would say in her responses. If you could please point out where I said anyone was not a good parent or where I said everything can be solved "by force or bribes or even neurotic degrees of consistency," I'd appreciate it, because I'm pretty sure I didn't. FTR, I have never spanked my child.

The OP gave no indication that there was any problem with her kids having issues and specifically asked if the behavior described would be tolerated. My answer was no, it would not be tolerated in my house.

[Dawn in OH]

Despite all the complaints I have about my children, I can honestly say they have never done anything like the OP described.

 

That kind of behavior would absolutely not be tolerated in our house and the two older children know it. The 3 1/2 year old, not so much. He doesn't quite understand all the rules yet. He's actually quite a handful compared to his older brother and sister and still hasn't done anything THAT destructive yet.

 

I am not claiming to be the perfect parent, or family, we have plenty of other issues!

[Sputterduck]

That would never, ever, ever be tolerated in my home. Their next few days would be miserable as they learned to better appreciate cleanliness in the home and as they learned why is it so important to respect their parents. I just have extremely low tolerance for that sort of thing. My son quickly figured out that the world comes to an end for such things. At 6, he doesn't destroy anything anymore despite being "all boy".

 

If it were me, and I don't know your children, I'd start by packing the TV, the play station, and all the art supplies in the closet for a month. Then the next couple days would consist of deep cleaning every room they like to destroy. After they are allowed to play again, anything left on the floor, trashed, etc, is just automatically gone. Given away if not essential or put in the closet for a long time if essential.

 

Here, in my house, it is just not worth it to walk around destroying everything. I have thrown everything in my son's room in the closet twice and made him earn everything back piece by piece twice by good behavior. That was when he was 3 and 4.

 

Maybe it sounds like my reaction is too harsh, but I just cannot stand that stuff and my son does respect rules and behaves very well now. Because of that, he has a lot of freedom and he gets respected almost like an adult in return.

[TX Bluebonnet]

I haven't read any of the replies but I wanted to say that I absolutely would not tolerate that kind of behavior. I would have made them clean it up and quick! Any back talk or whining would have resulted in spankings. Then they would have lost all privileges for a week.

 

As for abusing school supplies, if they can't take care of their worksheets then they would get plain notebook paper and have to write all of their answers out.

 

My eight year old wakes up before I do. He is allowed to read or watch TV but no video games. He is allowed to get a snack but he has to clean up after himself. My two year knows better than to throw food on the floor but if he decided to try it for some reason my eight year old would put a stop to it.

 

You are not their maid. I suggest you let them be your maids for a while and see how they like it.

[Snickerdoodle]

Well, I certainly don't *tolerate* that behavior. Doesn't mean they won't still sometimes make poor choices.

[Sputterduck]

Well, I certainly don't *tolerate* that behavior. Doesn't mean they won't still sometimes make poor choices.

 

An occasional poor choice is very different than daily destroying rooms and daily openly ignoring rules as in the OP's examples.

[Ester Maria]

I have not read the replies, but in my experience, barring atypical situations, most parents who face such "scenes" in their homes face them because they allow them, on one level or another. I totally get that there are "easier" and "harder" children to raise, and that I am comparatively lucky with mine and with how relatively little fuss we had over cleanliness and order in all these years. Yet, even "harder" children can be taught order if it does not come "naturally" to them. A bit like school where, barring atypical cases, most children CAN learn the age-appropriate content, they just need different amounts of time and for some of them you need different strategies to cope with them, a stricter, more no-nonsense approach, etc.

 

Many things that were unimaginable for our generation to do without dire consequences are often commonplaces in our children's generation. But it does not have to be, you can still draw a firm line with your older boys, especially with your oldest, who should really know better at 11-12. If they cannot be trusted to do simple everyday things on their own, they need to be accompanied by an adult. If they cannot be trusted that they will not make a mess in the kitchen, they cannot take food on their own - to the point that, if you really have to, lock the room (as much as this evokes very bitter feelings in me and I am glad I never faced that particular issue). And of course, they have to clean their mess every. time. without a compromise. If toys are an issue, a general decluttering is in order, since they are obviously tempted by too great quantity to handle. And so forth. The little ones are not accountable in my view, but your older two, particularly the nearly-teen one, are and should not be allowed to get away with stuff like this. Either you can play nice without adding work to others and damaging the place, or you cannot play in those particular circumstances until you grow out of that particular behavior, sorry - that has been my principle (granted, I have girls and quite "easy" ones regarding these things, without much fuss of that kind in all these years, but I have several friends with young boys who function the same way and impose order if it does not come "naturally").

 

Of course, I had kids making some mess and then making them clean it, more a few times, as well as playing some "police" about not. adding. work. to others. (i.e. cleaning after yourself, etc.) but regular scenes like what you describe, no way, not at your eldest's age, and especially not regularly. It would not be tolerated.

Edited April 2, 2011 by Ester Maria

[lea1]

I have two five year olds who currently share a room. I bought them a digital clock and told them they should not come downstairs in the mornings until the first digit says "7". They understand they can come down if they wet through their pull up or something else is wrong.

 

I am quite surprise that this has worked so well for them. They have only forgotten once or twice so far. I usually try to be up and going at least 15 to 30 minutes before 7, although I don't always make it. They are still at that age where they will come and hang out with me in bed until I wake up.

 

It might be good to have books or music on CD's' in their rooms with CD players (or MP3's) and lots of good books to read, in case they wake up early. We also made sure to put up very good black out curtains in their room (got them at WalMart pretty cheap) which helps a lot to let them sleep in a bit more.

 

Generally I have not had too much trouble with this kind of thing YET. But reading all of the replies has been good for me (stay one step ahead of them).

 

Don't be too hard on yourself. It must be very hard to handle all of this while you are so tired from being pregnant. I hope you can find some consequences that really work for you sons.

[newbie]

My oldest commends us when it is clean and spotless and she is always on her sisters case about leaving stuff lay out.

[Pretty in Pink]

I did want to chime back in as just say thanks to all who gave input on this thread.

[Evergreen State Sue]

Boys! Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em! Keep training them - their future wives will thank you. I guess that's what I thinking because I want to have a good relationship with my future (much future!) daughter-in-law and don't want her to say, "Didn't you teach him to . . ."

[dakarimom5]

What works for me is to either a) put toys in toy jail or b)unplug a child. That means said child is unable to play or use anything with electricity or batteries. With 3 boys this works great, especially when I allow them to watch tv but not pick the show. They end up watching a lot of Barbie!!;)

[Murphy101]

Despite all the complaints I have about my children, I can honestly say they have never done anything like the OP described.

 

That kind of behavior would absolutely not be tolerated in our house and the two older children know it. The 3 1/2 year old, not so much. He doesn't quite understand all the rules yet. He's actually quite a handful compared to his older brother and sister and still hasn't done anything THAT destructive yet.

 

I am not claiming to be the perfect parent, or family, we have plenty of other issues!

 

An occasional poor choice is very different than daily destroying rooms and daily openly ignoring rules as in the OP's examples.

 

I agree.

 

Completely.

 

At the very least, this is an indicator that you need to get up when they do bc they shouldn't be left unsupervised.

 

But yeah, if I stepped out of my bedroom to that - there would be some VERY unhappy kids for a couple days and some serious new house rules that would be very strictly enforced. Absolutely not tolerated in my house.

 

Some of this is simple preemptive measures. Most kids wake up hungry. It is unrealistic to think a 2 yr old is going to just stay in the crib once they are awake. Especially if they hear big siblings playing. Beds are for sleeping and they aren't asleep. Either they need to be able serve themselves and shown how to do so appropriately or you need to get up when they do.

 

Things happen. Sure. But it isn't tolerated enough to be repeated.

[JessReplanted]

Is this my lot in life? Is this sort of behavior tolerated in your home? How do you handle it?

 

No. :001_huh:

 

I'm not going to pretend that my kid are perfect - they're not. And my son is naturally quite a slob. Getting him to keep his room clean is a work in process.

 

But it sounds like your kids need some real consequences. It sounds like they have way more control then they should. Remember: You are the boss!!

 

Personally, our 'big' consequences at this point in life are spanking, and taking stuff away. Since the incident you mentioned involved the TV (which they weren't supposed to touch), I would throw a sheet over the whole thing and put it in 'time out' for an extended period of time. And that would just have been the beginning.

 

Do your kids know what is expected of them? Do they know what the consequences will be if they disobey? Do they have positive reinforcement (sticker chart, etc.)? You can turn these behaviors around, but it will require consistency & hard work. It helps me to keep the end goal in mind- who do you want your kids to be when they are grown up? Right now we are doing the hard work of getting them there.

[Frontier Mom]

Well, the only think I can say is they soon become teenagers who NEVER get up earlier than their Mom. They still don't take care of the house though and their rooms are SCARY!! Do Not Enter!! They do sleep late though so I can enjoy my morning quiet time. Gotta count those blessings wherever one can find them I say.

[Geek]

I'm not going to address most of this, as Parrothead said most of what I would say in her responses. If you could please point out where I said anyone was not a good parent or where I said everything can be solved "by force or bribes or even neurotic degrees of consistency," I'd appreciate it, because I'm pretty sure I didn't. FTR, I have never spanked my child.

I *didn't* say that you did this! I went out of my way to say that I have had experiences with these people. I never said you were one of them. Please show me where I said you, specifically, are one of these people. Please tell me how I should have worded things more carefully, despite the fact that I liberally sprinkled qualifiers to show that this is something in my experience, that doesn't apply to all people.

 

I get the feeling that some people are just looking to be offended. I don't get it really. :001_huh:

Edited April 3, 2011 by Geek

[Unicorn.]

:grouphug:'s. It is very hard! I have 1 with ADD and an athletic/aggresive personality. He's a twin, and I was a hypervigilant scheduler as they were premies. I was a total Ezzo follower...it didn't matter :glare:. This is the boy who just broke the neighbors basketball hoop yesterday, he's grounded, and I caught him 20 ft up in a tree in the backyard! (He was supposed to be raking leaves, but got distracted by a birds egg, and "needed" to find the nest)

 

I'm tired!

 

Nailed it. These kids are exhausting.

 

I'm so glad to hear that I'm not alone. Most people will never understand what we go through w/ these kids. Exhausting doesn't even cover it.

[littleWMN]

I'm curious about something. What would you do if you did take away privileges, made him write sentences, made him do service work for other family members, etc? What if you made him stand in the corner when he was little, clean up the mess he had made again and again and again and again? What would you do if you tried carrots instead of sticks and were consistent with it? How about if you even tried spanking for a while out of desperation? How about tomato staking for weeks on end?

 

What would you do then if a child still did these things and said he forgot? Beat him? Kick him out of the house?

 

Or might you realize that not everything can be solved by force or bribes or even neurotic degrees of consistency, the implementation of which gives mom ulcers?

 

I'm not trying to argue. Truly. I'm simply trying to show the other side of this coin. I guess I have a tender, wounded spot from the zillions of parents who have said or implied that I just didn't discipline enough, wasn't consistent enough.

 

This is no reflection on you--because I do have my own baggage over this issue--but I have come to the conclusion that parents of entirely neurotypical children are often the first ones to be proud of their achievements as parents...while berating the parents of non-neurotypical children as "not being good parents". This hurts.

 

Once again, I'm just trying to offer another perspective. Yes, this is a sore point with me. :o

 

As the mother of 3 NT children and one with suspected FAS, I agree. Wholeheartedly! :001_huh:

[Kristin in NE]

Our children tend to destroy things also, but I think we've almost encouraged this to some degree, although certainly not intentionally. We buy almost everying on garage sales, thrift stores, ebay, swap boards, etc and get it all for a small fraction of the price. As a result my husband and I tend to sometimes have a poor attitude about the things because they can be replaced so inexpensively or because we have so little invested in them to begin with. We just received some hand-me-down furniture and are trying to change that general attitude in our home.

[Lizzie in Ma]

One option is to remove ALL privileges, and make them earn each and every single one back, slowly. At 12, there's really no excuse for it, imo. 2 yo, sure. 12, not so much. Even the 7 yo knows what he's allowed and not, so the pastel thing would be an 'everyone is in trouble' situation here.

Yup. They'd all be cleaning, packing stuff up, etc. And, if this early rising is that much of an issue, I'd consider alarming their door so that it wakes you up when they open it if need be...I'm thinking solely of potential safety issues with the toddler.

 

Never in their lives have my kids behaved that way. I occasionally have to remind them to put a dish or glass in the dishwasher rather than the sink and their rooms are a little less spotless than I like. But other than the rare accident, nope. Of course, I have 2 girls too, 10 and 14, no boys, but still.

Good luck getting the mayhem under control, sounds like you have your hands full. :grouphug:

[Lovedtodeath]

ARE YOU GUYS JOKING????? I really I mean really no joke thought my boys were the only ones who did this kinda stuff. I am not being sarcastic or funny I really thought I had raised hellions. The stuff they have done has drove me to tears and screaming fits. I am shocked to know I am not the only one. My mother raised perfect children, no joke either. My brother and I lived in a museum and would never never have done these things. I have tried for years to figure what I did wrong with my boys. My mothers home was a museum perfectly dusted and all in order at all times. I never saw my mother child proof or put anything up and we raised in a home full of glass and antiques. I am just shocked and no offense a bit happy to know I am not alone in this.

:iagree:

[Mommyfaithe]

My 9 year old has scratched her name in large letters on our painted fence. Did she think that I wouldn't see it? Or know that she's the one who did it?:confused:

 

I've had kids scratch their sibling's name into things....ummmmmmm...they spelled it wrong:001_huh:..lol...dopes!

 

Faith...whose boys think a sit and spin is a stand and fall...and my walls have the proof. I bought them a bucket of spackle and dh is giving drywall lessons this weekend.

[Mommyfaithe]

Never in their lives have my kids behaved that way. I occasionally have to remind them to put a dish or glass in the dishwasher rather than the sink and their rooms are a little less spotless than I like. But other than the rare accident, nope. Of course, I have 2 girls too, 10 and 14, no boys, but still.

Good luck getting the mayhem under control, sounds like you have your hands full. :grouphug:

 

Don't get too smug. :D

It is definitely a boy thing, not a good parenting thing. My girls are aghast at what these boys destroy all in good flying fun....but it is these same boys who build our tree houses, create awesome Lego creations, fix all kinds of broken things around the house, cut, split and stack our firewood, installed my radiant heat, kitchen faucet, and book shelves...etc.

 

When they are little, they are a bit destructive, but that can be channeled into good. I would get a handle on the disobedience....but must realize that boys are a whole different story than girls....a nice, fun story, but different all the same!

 

Faithe ......again....who LOVES my boys even more than my house....but has enlisted them into making my house nice hoping they will take pride in their work....it worked with the older ones who are no longer destructive. :D:D

[clarkacademy]

Wow there is alot of us out there it seems. Both my boys have issues I guess I can say but that is becoming more and more to a point issues aside they still have to learn. One has autism the other ADHD and I am still wondering how is it both my girls are typical. I see on here alot of great advice my question is what if the punishment is really punishing yourself? I take away the play station and they torture me. Well the oldest mainly. The whining, the aggravation please please I will be good etc. I have done the whole if you whine you lose it longer thing already. I have totally stopped buying snacks because of them thinking they can have a free for all when I turn my back. If they get in trouble they aggravate me to death. The oldest right now is in time out as we speak. Their father left this morning to go back to his home and the oldest comes out of his room goes into the kitchen and starts ripping into some candy his dad left. I tell him no we don't have candy in the morning he gets all mean with his brother. I tell him OK that is it have a seat. He is sitting there right now continuing to run his mouth and I just wanna kill him. He is continuing to yell at his brother attempting to argue with me and I just don't know what to do about it.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Wow there is alot of us out there it seems. Both my boys have issues I guess I can say but that is becoming more and more to a point issues aside they still have to learn. One has autism the other ADHD and I am still wondering how is it both my girls are typical. I see on here alot of great advice my question is what if the punishment is really punishing yourself? I take away the play station and they torture me. Well the oldest mainly. The whining, the aggravation please please I will be good etc. I have done the whole if you whine you lose it longer thing already. I have totally stopped buying snacks because of them thinking they can have a free for all when I turn my back. If they get in trouble they aggravate me to death. The oldest right now is in time out as we speak. Their father left this morning to go back to his home and the oldest comes out of his room goes into the kitchen and starts ripping into some candy his dad left. I tell him no we don't have candy in the morning he gets all mean with his brother. I tell him OK that is it have a seat. He is sitting there right now continuing to run his mouth and I just wanna kill him. He is continuing to yell at his brother attempting to argue with me and I just don't know what to do about it.

 

:grouphug:

 

Get rid of the candy - it doesn't have to be permanently, if you don't want to. Put it in the freezer (when they aren't looking).

 

Can you separate the boys to different rooms?

 

I'm sorry that your morning is so rough.

[Impish]

The statement that punishment for the kids results in 'torture' for you...that caught me.

 

Kid that whines, attempts to argue, etc when being disciplined gets sent to their rooms. I don't want to listen to it, full stop. They can come down when they're ready to stop. Starts again, and its wash, rinse, repeat.

 

I don't have any experience with autism, but I've found with my kids, they're getting *something* out of their behaviour. Does the complaining, etc get the punishment revoked/lightened in your house? What benefit are they getting by acting how they are?

 

Parenting isn't for sissies, thats for sure!

[Geek]

The statement that punishment for the kids results in 'torture' for you...that caught me.

 

Kid that whines, attempts to argue, etc when being disciplined gets sent to their rooms. I don't want to listen to it, full stop. They can come down when they're ready to stop. Starts again, and its wash, rinse, repeat.

 

I don't have any experience with autism, but I've found with my kids, they're getting *something* out of their behaviour. Does the complaining, etc get the punishment revoked/lightened in your house? What benefit are they getting by acting how they are?

 

Parenting isn't for sissies, thats for sure!

I'm curious about something. How would you handle it if the child sent to his room then became destructive either to his own things (that I paid for), his brother's things, the furniture, or the house itself (floor, walls, windows)?

 

At what point do punitive measures backfire? What then? :lurk5:

[Carrie12345]

The statement that punishment for the kids results in 'torture' for you...that caught me.

 

Kid that whines, attempts to argue, etc when being disciplined gets sent to their rooms. I don't want to listen to it, full stop. They can come down when they're ready to stop. Starts again, and its wash, rinse, repeat.

 

I don't have any experience with autism, but I've found with my kids, they're getting *something* out of their behaviour. Does the complaining, etc get the punishment revoked/lightened in your house? What benefit are they getting by acting how they are?

 

Parenting isn't for sissies, thats for sure!

 

For my particular ASD kid, the benefit he gets out of it is the (eventual) mental and physical relief of having expressed his displeasure. Which could involve an hour of ranting and raving (with the occasional destruction) at high volume in his room, which is footsteps away from the common area of the house. So yes, it does torture our entire family, he isn't getting away with a single thing, and he very often cannot control his hideous behavior until it's completely out of his system.

 

My ADD kid is a bit similar, but on a much more tolerable level. My NT kid will spit out a snotty remark and then willingly remove herself from the room until she's calmed down and ready to apologize. This is because they have different brains, not because they have different parenting.

Edited April 3, 2011 by Carrie1234
spelling!

[clarkacademy]

I'm curious about something. How would you handle it if the child sent to his room then became destructive either to his own things (that I paid for), his brother's things, the furniture, or the house itself (floor, walls, windows)?

 

At what point do punitive measures backfire? What then? :lurk5:

 

 

I was just thinking that!!! They don't exactly tear up the personal house (anymore) they tried that. My son kicked the wall and while I don't believe spanking is a cure all by any means that was the limit there. he got the end all of whoopins and never kicked my walls again. The older one will do aggravating things such as tear apart the others boys legos, stuff like that. Which yes that type of behavior makes it worse. You stay longer lose etc longer but he still manages to sneak and do things. While he does have autism he is high functioning and as he has gotten older I am really starting to see he knows more than people want to think he does.

[Geek]

For my particular ASD kid, the benefit he gets out of it is the (eventual) mental and physical relief of having expressed his displeasure. Which could involve an hour of ranting and raving (with the occasional destruction) at high volume in his room, which is footsteps away from the common area of the house. So yes, it does torture our entire family, he isn't getting away with a single thing, and he very often cannot control his hideous behavior until it's completely out of his system.

Seems we have similar children.

 

Following through on consequences for A quite often leads to B, C, and D. Do we have to follow through on consequences for B, C, and D? What if that leads to more? Where does it stop?

 

Sometimes the child doesn't need rigid follow-through from the parent. Sometimes the only reason s/he is doing what s/he is doing is because

 

1) s/he has absolutely no self-control because of an obscene level of impulsivity;

2) s/he is acting out as an alternate form of communication and what's really going on is s/he needs quiet time, either alone or with an affectionate parent; or

3) s/he is reacting to something s/he ate, something you forgot to lock up the night before and will find the remains behind the living room sofa later that day.

[clarkacademy]

I wish they could have different rooms but no there is no space and the bunk beds they have are not the kind you seperate. I already did away with the candy though. Dad and I have never been on a good page so to speak so that was one reason to move away to FL. Alot of the food issues stem from him. He lets them eat anything literally anything they want because hey it saves from having to cook real food he told me.

 

 

:grouphug:

 

Get rid of the candy - it doesn't have to be permanently, if you don't want to. Put it in the freezer (when they aren't looking).

 

Can you separate the boys to different rooms?

 

I'm sorry that your morning is so rough.

[clarkacademy]

I see what you are saying there the only thing I can think they are getting is maybe attention. Both boys will sit there and aggravate the other kids or try to argue with me etc. when they are in trouble. Which usually causes more arguments within the children and another kid will usually say something or do something that gets them in trouble. I also have the issue with it's not fair. If one kid is in trouble and the other kid gets something like a fun activity or something to that the kid in trouble will have a meltdown and crying jags about how unfair that is. My son should have sat this morning for 12 minutes with his whining and mouth running it turned into half an hour.

 

 

The statement that punishment for the kids results in 'torture' for you...that caught me.

 

Kid that whines, attempts to argue, etc when being disciplined gets sent to their rooms. I don't want to listen to it, full stop. They can come down when they're ready to stop. Starts again, and its wash, rinse, repeat.

 

I don't have any experience with autism, but I've found with my kids, they're getting *something* out of their behaviour. Does the complaining, etc get the punishment revoked/lightened in your house? What benefit are they getting by acting how they are?

 

Parenting isn't for sissies, thats for sure!

 

[Murphy101]

I'm curious about something. How would you handle it if the child sent to his room then became destructive either to his own things (that I paid for), his brother's things, the furniture, or the house itself (floor, walls, windows)?

 

At what point do punitive measures backfire? What then? :lurk5:

 

I have removed everything, even the bedding. If they don't take care of it - I can't think of anything they can't live without.

 

And yes, there would be spankings for purposely vandalizing other people's property. It's a solid lesson in reality. Because at some point if that carries over to outside the home - the police or whoever will certainly be as punitive or worse than me.

 

I was just thinking that!!! They don't exactly tear up the personal house (anymore) they tried that. My son kicked the wall and while I don't believe spanking is a cure all by any means that was the limit there. he got the end all of whoopins and never kicked my walls again. The older one will do aggravating things such as tear apart the others boys legos, stuff like that. Which yes that type of behavior makes it worse. You stay longer lose etc longer but he still manages to sneak and do things. While he does have autism he is high functioning and as he has gotten older I am really starting to see he knows more than people want to think he does.

 

I think you have some of your answer right there. No, I'm not a spank for every offense person either. That is not the point. The point is that he obviously absolutely CAN control himself and take into consideration consequences when he is misbehaving. He IS capable of some self control and understanding your limits.

 

The thing is you are going to have be one mean horrible mom;) for a long time, like months, for the new regime change to settle in and for them to accept that their behavior will no longer be tolerated and will make them more unhappy than happy. If the electronics or whatever are a problem, I would get rid of it permanently and refuse to repurchase. No point whining about what doesn't exist in the home anymore. If dad brought candy in, promptly throw it in the trash. If they had an outside activity that day and trashed the house? Oh too bad they trashed the house bc now we are going to stay home and clean it up. Outside event is abruptly canceled no matter what the event is. (Yes, they are letting their team down. That was their choice. Yes, grandparent is going to feel punished too, itls a shame they didnt care more about their feelings when they trashed the house. And so forth.)

 

It is exhausting. You can sleep when the kids are grown.;)

It is frustrating, bc it never fails that just when you think they are past this crap, something happens and you have to bring in mean mom again.

 

You aren't alone. We've all been there and know these phases stink. But it is just part of the parenting job.:grouphug:

[Rose in BC]

Honestly, me too. I'm thinking of printing this thread out and showing it to my husband.

 

Me too. :)

[Scarlett]

It is exhausting. You can sleep when the kids are grown.;)

 

I haven't read this entire thread, but this caught my eye. I just told my dh that I'm going to bed and pull the covers over my head...that he could wake me in 10 years when they are all grown.

 

He smiled. So sweetly.

 

So I got up. Martha is right. We can sleep when they are grown.

[Geek]

I have removed everything, even the bedding. If they don't take care of it - I can't think of anything they can't live without.

 

And yes, there would be spankings for purposely vandalizing other people's property. It's a solid lesson in reality. Because at some point if that carries over to outside the home - the police or whoever will certainly be as punitive or worse than me.

Honestly, Martha, these comments just tell me that you have never lived with a child with autism.

 

Your comments are a perfect example of why I spoke up in this thread in the first place. The assumption that we need to just give our child a "solid lesson in reality" is stunning, really.

 

Want a taste of my reality? At this very moment my 12yo is having a complete screaming, red-faced, hysterical meltdown...over a pair of socks because the seam hits his toes in the wrong place and it's "painful" to wear them with shoes. He refuses to put on another pair so that he can go somewhere with my husband and his brother. Do you think spanking him will work? He weighs 80 lbs and at the moment is behaving like an animal.

 

Yeah, let's give him a solid lesson in reality. That'll teach him. As punishment let's just make him go without socks, and then while he's at the store later my husband will discover he has removed his shoes and left them somewhere. Oh, and then we'll have to punish him for leaving his shoes somewhere, maybe by making him earn the money to pay for them. Yeah! That's it.

 

Sorry. The best solution is to allow this child to calm himself down so that he doesn't damage anything else, and then help him find a different pair of socks or even go to the store to buy new ones. Oh, and the trip out with Dad and brother? It's too late for that now either way, and more than likely when my 12yo son realizes this he will have another meltdown out of disappointment.

 

He will never make the connection that he caused all of this.

 

The most we can hope for is that he'll learn that we can be trusted to help him find socks that don't hurt his feet, thereby minimizing the chances that he'll go ballistic the next time something like this happens. Spanking in order to give him a taste of reality would make things far worse, not better.

Edited April 3, 2011 by Geek

[Carrie12345]

I have removed everything, even the bedding. If they don't take care of it - I can't think of anything they can't live without.

 

And yes, there would be spankings for purposely vandalizing other people's property. It's a solid lesson in reality. Because at some point if that carries over to outside the home - the police or whoever will certainly be as punitive or worse than me.

 

 

I think you have some of your answer right there. No, I'm not a spank for every offense person either. That is not the point. The point is that he obviously absolutely CAN control himself and take into consideration consequences when he is misbehaving. He IS capable of some self control and understanding your limits.

 

The thing is you are going to have be one mean horrible mom;) for a long time, like months, for the new regime change to settle in and for them to accept that their behavior will no longer be tolerated and will make them more unhappy than happy. If the electronics or whatever are a problem, I would get rid of it permanently and refuse to repurchase. No point whining about what doesn't exist in the home anymore. If dad brought candy in, promptly throw it in the trash. If they had an outside activity that day and trashed the house? Oh too bad they trashed the house bc now we are going to stay home and clean it up. Outside event is abruptly canceled no matter what the event is. (Yes, they are letting their team down. That was their choice. Yes, grandparent is going to feel punished too, itls a shame they didnt care more about their feelings when they trashed the house. And so forth.)

 

It is exhausting. You can sleep when the kids are grown.;)

It is frustrating, bc it never fails that just when you think they are past this crap, something happens and you have to bring in mean mom again.

 

You aren't alone. We've all been there and know these phases stink. But it is just part of the parenting job.:grouphug:

 

And I would strongly recommend AGAINST taking this route with neurologically different children unless it's under the guidance of an experienced disorder-specific professional.

 

We can talk about cause and effect until we're all blue in the face, but if your brain doesn't work that way, it doesn't work that way. And isolated incidents of shocking someone into obedience do not prove any connection.

 

New connections can be made and/or bypassed for end results with *extraordinary* effort, but usually not with the kind of efforts being described. At best, those will work for a few. At second best, they'll do nothing.

 

At worst, they'll leave you with a completely frustrated, out-of-control, depressed, and even suicidal child who feels completely unloved and worthless. BECAUSE THEIR BRAINS DON'T WORK LIKE EVERYONE ELSE'S.

[justamouse]

Honestly, Martha, these comments just tell me that you have never lived with a child with autism.

 

Your comments are a perfect example of why I spoke up in this thread in the first place. The assumption that we need to just give our child a "solid lesson in reality" is stunning, really.

 

 

 

Where did she say it WAS for an autistic kid?

[Geek]

 

Where did she say it WAS for an autistic kid?

She was responding to me. She gave no indication that she was responding generally to this thread.

[justamouse]

She was responding to me. She gave no indication that she was responding generally to this thread.

 

Yes, I know, but I'm saying that just because she's answering you, doesn't mean that she is answering with the idea of how she would parent an autistic child.

[Carrie12345]

Yes, I know, but I'm saying that just because she's answering you, doesn't mean that she is answering with the idea of how she would parent an autistic child.

 

She also quoted clarksacademy, including the statement that the child is autistic. They were direct replies.

[Murphy101]

Honestly, Martha, these comments just tell me that you have never lived with a child with autism.

 

Your comments are a perfect example of why I spoke up in this thread in the first place. The assumption that we need to just give our child a "solid lesson in reality" is stunning, really.

 

First off, you specificly asked what people would do if the child sent to their room started being destructive in there. I said what I would do. It is rational and a logical consequence. The rational thing to do with violent people, any violent people, is remove anything they will use in a violent manner. In the case of an autistic child, I would think it the kindest thing to do if they truly cannot control the impulse.

 

I never said I am living with a child who has severe or violent autism. Though it is sadly true some kids with autism cannot be reasoned with, many kids have autism and can still learn what lines they can't cross.

 

If a parent knows their child has these issues, then the safest thing to do is reduce friction, reduce opportunities for damage, and basicly over compensate for their difficulties.

 

I'm sure it is unbelievably exhausting and frustrating and sometimes downright heartbreaking.:grouphug:

 

I'm not sure why anything I said offended you. Tho I think the advice was fairly cause/affect based. If they destroy things and are being violent, remove the means to do so as much as possible. If they are capable of understanding that violence begets violence, an occasional spanking *might* be effective. If they are going to whine to have something returned, completely remove it from the home so that returning is no longer an option. If you don't think the advice applies to you, then of course you should do what works for your children.

 

Which begs the question:

 

What would you do? Just leave them to destroy and rampage without intervention, prevention, or reduction of losses?:confused:

 

What would you do to mitigate damage and general family misery?

 

I get you don't like what I would do, tho I don't think any of my suggestions unreasonable or particularly harsh for the situation. That's fine by me. I'm very much an every parent has to do what is best for their child kind of person. I sure do not think I have all or even most of the answers to parenting! But what would you do that you think would be more effective? I'm not being snarky. It is a sincere question.:)

 

I don't think badly of the OP or her kids or any of the other examples given here. I've been at my wits end on more than one occasion and understand from a btdt perspective. It's the notion that one should just accept living that way that I find astounding.:confused:

[Murphy101]

We are cross posting and I see you went back and added to yours.

 

Geek, not once did I EVER suggest spanking for every offense is the answer. In fact, I think the complete opposite. Spanking is only effective if used occasionally and sparingly. I certainly didn't say to spank a child over a pair of stupid socks. I'd have set him in time out and went about my business figuring not getting to go is punishment enough.

 

If you know he will leave his shoes somewhere, then I either wouldn't take him or I would keep a hyper vigilant eye on him. If you KNOW he is likely to do that, why wait for the event to take action?:001_huh:

 

Spanking in order to give him a taste of reality would make things far worse, not better.

 

I mentioned considerable more than spanking. Just bc a person says they MIGHT spank OCCASIONALLY for SEVERE situations IF they think it would be EFFECTIVE does not mean they would spank over every silly offense like their kid for not putting socks on.:glare: