Conservative Christians: Harry Potter

[Whereneverever]

In the case of TCoN (and I believe LotR as well, but am not sure) it was written with a Christian perspective as an attempt to make Christ more attainable and understandable to younger audiences. Intent does, imo, matter.

 

 

I'm aware of the intent, but it doesn't change that children reading through it get a story involving a lot of fantastical occurrences that are no more likely to happen to them then receiving a letter via owl inviting them to study at Hogwarts. :001_smile:

 

To each their own. We are doing HP here, as well as LOTR and TCON.

[lionfamily1999]

I'm aware of the intent, but it doesn't change that children reading through it get a story involving a lot of fantastical occurrences that are no more likely to happen to them then receiving a letter via owl inviting them to study at Hogwarts. :001_smile:

 

To each their own. We are doing HP here, as well as LOTR and TCON.

For me, the fantastical occurances are not the issue, the intent is.

 

The Bible is chock full of miraculous happenings :D A boy taking down a giant, for one ;) I have no issue with the incredible.

[bethben]

I've had a similar situation with my ds and his Christian friends who are allowed to read certain literature. If the book makes me uncomfortable in any way, I just tell him he can't do it. I'd rather err on the side of caution. And maybe that particular uncomfortableness is just God saying, "For this kiddo, don't let him read those particular books."

 

His friend? His parents are allowing him to read these certain books. It's their choice. Do I agree - no necessarily, but it's still their decision. They're the ones raising that particular child and are accountable to God for their own child. So, I just let it go unless they're a good friend. Even then I would ask them about it and hear them out first before saying what I think.

 

Beth

[PeterPan]

Kelly, I think the only way to decide is to look at the books for yourselves. I've read the controversy and the opinions (Rowling was channeling demons, the books are harmless, blah blah). Finally I just picked one up at Walmart, looked at it, saw how the characters talked to each other, and decided that wasn't for us.

 

This is just the first of many disagreements and differences you'll have with people. Someone taught me a phrase when we were first starting parenting, and it was "In our house we..." And that's really our answer. In our house we don't do HP, end of story. So the friends brings it up, and we politely so oh, that's nice, but in our house we don't do HP. Change topic.

[laughing lioness]

:iagree: Well said. Self-sacrifice and love are depicted skillfully and powerfully in book seven, and are a theme throughout the six books leading up to it as well.

 

I'll add that the idea from another post that the book promotes personal power and denigrates those who do not embrace personal power is false, in my opinion. In fact, through the characters of Dumbledore and Snape, as well as the Ministry of Magic, there is a strong lesson that power corrupts, that unfettered power can cause people to make dangerous moral compromises.

 

The characters are born with super powers. The book is NOT about the power of those powers, but rather about their choices in using their powers. A good parallel for us non-magical people who live here in the real world is the idea that we should use our skills and abilities to do what is right in all circumstances.

 

So, I, or my kid, would have to commit to reading the entire series before they discovered the redemption in the story line?

[cbollin]

So, I, or my kid, would have to commit to reading the entire series before they discovered the redemption in the story line?

 

not exactly...... there's plenty of foreshadowing before it. (that's not being snarky, I'm just saying it is made very obvious in the last book with some very specific action. )

 

No one is making you (edit for clarity: the general you, not any specific person on here) read the book. If you (again, general you) don't want them to read it, they don't have to. If you don't want to read them, you don't have to. :)

 

But Christians are not "wrong" if as parents they read the book with their own children and discuss it with them.

 

Christians are not wrong to not read it either.

 

I avoid radio stations that aren't KLove. My daughter doesn't like hearing some of the songs that I use in my group exercise class that are on "secular" pop stations.

 

-crystal

Edited December 10, 2010 by cbollin

[Harriet Vane]

So, I, or my kid, would have to commit to reading the entire series before they discovered the redemption in the story line?

 

No, absolutely not. It's a theme throughout all seven books, especially frequently in reference to Harry's mother. It is also seen in other characters and relationships throughout the series (Snape, for example, or Sirius), and is repeatedly foreshadowed. However, book seven is the book that gathers up all the pieces and brings it to a powerful climax. Book seven leaves absolutely no ambiguity on this point.

[Kim in Appalachia]

My kids have read/listened to all of the books and have seen all of the movies. We belong to a conservative presbyterian church. There are a number of families in our church who do not allow their kids to read the books, but there are also a number of families who do.

 

My take, fwiw, is that the books have nothing to do with the occult. Really, what is shown or demonstrated in the books is pure fantasy. The books to not represent any real version of witchcraft or pagan beliefs, though it borrows from many religious traditions. They are a fun read and do have great themes and lessons.

[HRAAB]

I'm starting to see that focusing on worldly things can only help my kids become more worldly. Why give them a "hero" that is not Godly, when there are so many Godly ones to turn to?

 

What qualities make a character Godly as opposed to not Godly?

 

I must agree. After a few years of relaxing our conservative standard in a few areas, I see the difference in our children and I'm finding myself repairing damage. It's a difficult balance to parent towards Godliness and still take our faith and apply it in a practical manner.

 

I agree with this. I need to be vigilant with regards to the books my children are reading. In my case, however, it wasn't magic or witchcraft that caused damage; it was young adult novels with real life situations - recommended by fellow Christian homeschoolers. Many of the situations in these books scare me much more than any fantasy book ever could.

 

I went through a short period where I wouldn't let my girls read HP based entirely upon what others said. One summer on vacation there was a HP book in the house we rented. I stayed up all night reading it. When I got home, I read the rest of them (the ones published at that point). That's when I formed my own opinion. Depending on each child's sensitivity, I let them read the books somewhere around 11 or 12. One of the twins is extremely sensitive, and I see no reason for her to read them until later. Although the first couple aren't that violent or dark, once you start reading you want to keep on, and the latter ones are darker and scarier, so I'll wait with her.

Edited December 10, 2010 by Ishki
Changed the wording of my question

[FloridaLisa]

We've chosen not to read the Harry Potter books. I haven't read them, so I can't cite specifics. I did read lots of articles about the books, just as I would research movie reviews before going to see/renting a movie. I can't square it with scripture.

 

I read some dark ("harmless, everbody read them") books in middle/hs. It did nothing for me. I didn't begin practicing witchcraft, but it certainly didn't lead me to become more like Christ. There is such little time and so very many good books to read. I want to redeem the time and dh and I will answer for how we have stewarded that time with our children.

 

No tomatoes. I know 99% of others (at church; in the neighborhood; in our family) have made different decisions and that doesn't bother me one whit. If dh and I don't have peace about it, then we can't allow that for our family.

 

Much like Elizabeth, we've just said that we're not an HP family. And it's funny -- we settled it waaay back when they first came out and my dc haven't really pushed against it so we've never revisited.

 

Lisa

[ShutterBug]

Harry Potter is in fact, highly moral and ethical throughout the books.

 

I don't know if I'd say "highly moral and ethical"...Harry is, if we are to be honest, often disobedient, lazy (especially in schoolwork), an effortless liar, takes no qualm with using another's work and knowledge while claiming it to be his own and makes more than just a few poor judgement calls over the span of the books. He's also good, kind, often selfless and brave..a loyal friend and a fierce defender of what's good and true. These flaws (and strengths) in Harry's character (and all of the other characters) are what make the books such wonderful reads.

 

BTW, we are a conservative Christian household who has allowed our now 8 yo to read the entire series and watch all of the movies. He began them at 7 and finished them while 8. I read them as he read them..always keeping just a bit ahead in case there was anything I wanted to censor or discuss.

 

My suggestion would be to read them first then make a decision on your own judgement, not someone else's.

[lmrich]

We have family that won't allow Harry Potter - period. No movies, no books, nada. They are a very conservative family. BUT They allowed Twilight (actually said that the Bible addresses witchcraft and wizards not werewolves and vampires as sinful)!!! and the parents hadn't read that book either. BTW - I loved reading both and allowed my older kids to read HP with me, but really there is no comparison.

 

I would encourage every adult on the fence to read it yourself. Read it yourself. Read it yourself.

[Whereneverever]

We have family that won't allow Harry Potter - period. No movies, no books, nada. They are a very conservative family. BUT They allowed Twilight (actually said that the Bible addresses witchcraft and wizards not werewolves and vampires as sinful)!!! and the parents hadn't read that book either. BTW - I loved reading both and allowed my older kids to read HP with me, but really there is no comparison.

 

I would encourage every adult on the fence to read it yourself. Read it yourself. Read it yourself.

 

I'm a little amazed at the thought of allowing Twilight over Harry Potter.:tongue_smilie:

[lionfamily1999]

What qualities make a character Godly as opposed to not Godly?

 

They should be grounded in faith.

[angela in ohio]

Other... I think the writing is less than stellar, so we read other things instead. I was going to read the whole series before giving it to dc, to make the decision about content, but I only made it through part of one book before I tossed it.

 

We make these decisions based on opportunity cost: what better book (both from a religious and literary standpoint) could my dc be reading in that amount of time?

[susankenny]

We have family that won't allow Harry Potter - period. No movies, no books, nada. They are a very conservative family. BUT They allowed Twilight (actually said that the Bible addresses witchcraft and wizards not werewolves and vampires as sinful)!!! and the parents hadn't read that book either. BTW - I loved reading both and allowed my older kids to read HP with me, but really there is no comparison.

 

 

Oh my gosh. That's so silly. Similarly, my CC SIL watched Avatar and The Last Airbender with her children, but won't allow Matilda because of witchcraft!!!!! It is incredibly impossible to hold my tongue with that...but I do:D She is a separate thread in itself though, lol.

 

Susan

[HRAAB]

They should be grounded in faith.

 

I can see that. I guess I look more for character growth and behavior - not perfection - but doing the right thing in the end. A character doesn't have to be Christian for me to find them exhibiting Godly character.

 

Anyway, as far as HP is concerned, if you're not comfortable with it, leave it alone. There are so many good, uplifting, moral books out there. Even thought we've enjoyed the books, they're not at the top of my list by a long shot.

 

I'm getting ready to read LOTR w/my 8th grader and so looking forward to it. I do feel so much of the author comes through in their writing, and Tolkien's faith is evident in his characters. To me, anyway.

[OregonNative]

I have always been perplexed when folks say books like Harry Potter are damaging and encourage witchcraft, etc. It is a STORY, and a pretty good one at that. It covers the basic issues of any good story (and life!) Good versus evil, love conquering all, loss, sacrifice, friendship, acceptance, you name it. However, at the end of the day, it is simply a story. It does not encourage children to engage in witchcraft (what does that even mean, anyway?) and it doesn't cover anything morally inappropriate that I could tell. I have read all seven books many times over.

 

I will say the books do get darker as time goes on, and the only issue would be an age/maturity one, just as with any book, movie, etc. Even at that, it's not hard core gore or mature themes. As always, it's left up to a parent's judgement. The first book makes a great read and is on a pretty easy level. Good luck!

:iagree:

[laughing lioness]

No, absolutely not. It's a theme throughout all seven books, especially frequently in reference to Harry's mother. It is also seen in other characters and relationships throughout the series (Snape, for example, or Sirius), and is repeatedly foreshadowed. However, book seven is the book that gathers up all the pieces and brings it to a powerful climax. Book seven leaves absolutely no ambiguity on this point.

 

Thanks for the clarity. I was seriously wondering.;)

 

Haven't figured out how to double quote yet- but I agree that to read or not read HP is totally the paren'ts perogative -we don't moniter our older kids reading lists. They have a conscience (and the Holy Spirit) to guide them. We do moniter the notsolittles. Our 10 yo recently read Revelation. Scared him to death. The thing that really freaked him out? The verse that talked about how brothers would rise up against each other. He adores his older bro. My dh gently re-directed him to the Gospels . We won't go down the Twilight path either, but then lots of folks think we'll burn in h*ll regardless cause my dh is a pscyhologist.

Edited December 10, 2010 by laughing lioness

[Leola]

I am trying to decide the same thing for my kids right now. DS wants to read them.

[Hedgehogs4]

I would encourage every adult on the fence to read it yourself. Read it yourself. Read it yourself.

 

I guess I should have pointed out in the original post that I have read several--the first 3 or 4. I thoroughly enjoyed the stories myself. I have not come to the point in the series where things start getting very dark. i stopped reading when my son began asking about the things i was reading because i didn't know how i felt about him reading them, and I didn't want to be setting a standard that I myself couldn't meet. I plan to read the rest of the series, but as for now, I think I will wait until he is older. I just don't have a peace about introducing it now. He is very sensitive, very spiritually aware, and is extremely "black and white"--it's hard to discuss stuff with him without him asking, "but is it wrong?" he doesn't do well with the "neither" answer.

 

I would not put Lewis, Tolkien and L'Engle in the same lump with JK Rowlings. I agree that the foundation from which they write is grounded in the truth of Scripture, and their writing is intended to point the readers to that.

[lionfamily1999]

I can see that. I guess I look more for character growth and behavior - not perfection - but doing the right thing in the end. A character doesn't have to be Christian for me to find them exhibiting Godly character.

 

Anyway, as far as HP is concerned, if you're not comfortable with it, leave it alone. There are so many good, uplifting, moral books out there. Even thought we've enjoyed the books, they're not at the top of my list by a long shot.

 

I'm getting ready to read LOTR w/my 8th grader and so looking forward to it. I do feel so much of the author comes through in their writing, and Tolkien's faith is evident in his characters. To me, anyway.

Don't tell anyone, but I've never gotten past the Hobbit :lol: I have tried and tried to enjoy Tolkien, but I just can't get into the story lines.

 

I've discovered so many subtle wrongs, if you know what I mean, in wordly wisdom (secular sources for Godly behavior) that I'm not comfortable using them anymore. I just find it easier and safer for me, as a parent, to use sources that believe as I do rather than having those oh so fun out of nowhere questions that I'm not prepared to answer as of yet.

I just don't have a peace about introducing it now. He is very sensitive, very spiritually aware, and is extremely "black and white"--it's hard to discuss stuff with him without him asking, "but is it wrong?" he doesn't do well with the "neither" answer.

 

I would not put Lewis, Tolkien and L'Engle in the same lump with JK Rowlings. I agree that the foundation from which they write is grounded in the truth of Scripture, and their writing is intended to point the readers to that.

:iagree: My children are much same.

[Testimony]

I'll stay away.

 

Sincerely,

Karen

[Rosy]

I answered "wait" in the poll. DD10 is not interested in the books or the movies, DS is interested in the movies. I would prefer that they read the books first. I intend to let them read the books at some point, but I would like to read them first. We don't stay away from all magic--we allow the Hobbit/LOTR, Narnia, Roald Dahl's Witches, some Disney movies, etc.

 

For those who only allow books that explicitly support Biblical values, are your kids avid readers? What do they spend their time reading? Do you forbid books that are more neutral, like Amelia Bedelia, Ramona/Henry, etc.? I ask this because I can't imagine being able to find enough quality reading material where the "characters are Godly" and the perspective was explicitly Christian to give my kids the literary foundation I want for them. So much classic literature would be excluded.

 

Personally, one of my favorite books is Three Cups of Tea and it's sequel, Stones into Schools. Greg Mortensen is one of my heroes. He is not a Christian, nor is he doing his good works to the glory of God. However, he has challenged me in my faith and my understanding of a life of service. I believe that good books/good characters can do this, whether or not they are written by Christians and for Christians.

[mrbmom77]

 

Harry Potter's powers bear NO resemblance in any fashion to any form of witchcraft in the real world (either in terms of demonic interaction or in terms of pagan worship), and it is impossible to replicate anything he does in real life because none of us in the real world have super powers.

 

Harry Potter is in fact, highly moral and ethical throughout the books. There are many wonderful life lessons in the books, lessons that can even bring the reader to a better understanding of Christ's sacrifice. I have a high opinion of these books and the skill with which they are written.

 

:iagree: I wouldn't allow them for a long time b/c of what I heard from other Christians, but once I read them, I realized it was "much ado about nothing." I know quite a bit about witchcraft through practicing family, and nothing in HP resembles anything I've every heard about. The books do get darker as the characters grow, but my DD11 has read about halfway thru book 6 with no problem. She's not sensitive to that type of thing so YMMV.

[Mommybostic]

Is Tolkein grounded in Scripture? My interpretation of TLOTR series was Tolkein's disgust with the industrial revolution and "war machines" that were covering the world in his time, destroying the natural world and people who wanted to live a simpler life. I watched a show on The History Channel about this a long time ago when the movies were out, and I wish I could remember some more of the information they gave to support this thought. I remember the comparisons of the evil dictators and the mindless, powerful soldiers who fought for them for no other reason than the glory of fighting. There is no character that strikes me as Christ-like, and no hero that is Godly based upon the description of being grounded in faith. I suppose the Narnia series could be deemed as such, with Aslan being a representation of God, but when my son and I read any of these books, HP included, we read them as entertainment, and I had read all of them first. We discuss certain aspects that I suppose are concerned with morals, ethics, whatever, but we get our Scripture from the Bible.

 

It really doesn't matter either way. Some people simply don't care for the story, and everyone has to make their own judgement based on whatever their reasons may be. As a previous poster said, you have to "read it yourself." Incidentally, if you have only read the first four, then you are just getting to the darker themes. The fifth book begins to introduce this, imo. I also agree, though, that once the child starts, they will probably want to continue and read them all, so that is always a consideration.

 

I suppose Tolkein, Rowling, or ANYTHING, is interpreted just exactly as the reader wants it to be, plain and simple.

[Rhondabee]

Harry Potter is a Messiah-figure who defeats his enemy through love - even sacrificing his own life in the last book. (yes, he is resurrected) Not that you need to go into all the literary aspects or compare it to the story of Christ with your child. But, Narnia and the story of Aslan is very much the same. (The "gateway" to Narnia from our world is created by magic.) Yet Christians embrace the Narnia tales, I suppose, because they're more openly didactic.

 

I avoided the books for a long time because someone told me "they teach kids to do actual magic spells." This is poppycock. Harry Potter is a beautiful love story, (not romantic, but *true* love) - a story where good defeats evil. And if you treat it as such, I bet your kids will, too.

[Jennay]

For the longest time I was "against" Harry Potter based on opinions of other people. Then my DH and I decided to read them ourselves and decide. We both loved them! We will allow our kids to read them in the future.

[Hedgehogs4]

Harry Potter is a Messiah-figure who defeats his enemy through love - even sacrificing his own life in the last book. (yes, he is resurrected) Not that you need to go into all the literary aspects or compare it to the story of Christ with your child. But, Narnia and the story of Aslan is very much the same. (The "gateway" to Narnia from our world is created by magic.) Yet Christians embrace the Narnia tales, I suppose, because they're more openly didactic.

 

I avoided the books for a long time because someone told me "they teach kids to do actual magic spells." This is poppycock. Harry Potter is a beautiful love story, (not romantic, but *true* love) - a story where good defeats evil. And if you treat it as such, I bet your kids will, too.

 

thanks for the major spoiler. :glare:

[Hedgehogs4]

Is Tolkein grounded in Scripture? My interpretation of TLOTR series was Tolkein's disgust with the industrial revolution and "war machines" that were covering the world in his time, destroying the natural world and people who wanted to live a simpler life. I watched a show on The History Channel about this a long time ago when the movies were out, and I wish I could remember some more of the information they gave to support this thought. I remember the comparisons of the evil dictators and the mindless, powerful soldiers who fought for them for no other reason than the glory of fighting. There is no character that strikes me as Christ-like, and no hero that is Godly based upon the description of being grounded in faith. I suppose the Narnia series could be deemed as such, with Aslan being a representation of God, but when my son and I read any of these books, HP included, we read them as entertainment, and I had read all of them first. We discuss certain aspects that I suppose are concerned with morals, ethics, whatever, but we get our Scripture from the Bible.

 

It really doesn't matter either way. Some people simply don't care for the story, and everyone has to make their own judgement based on whatever their reasons may be. As a previous poster said, you have to "read it yourself." Incidentally, if you have only read the first four, then you are just getting to the darker themes. The fifth book begins to introduce this, imo. I also agree, though, that once the child starts, they will probably want to continue and read them all, so that is always a consideration.

 

I suppose Tolkein, Rowling, or ANYTHING, is interpreted just exactly as the reader wants it to be, plain and simple.

 

yes...my understanding is that Tolkien did not want his books to be taken as allegories as Narnia was...as to his intention or what they represented, I am not certain. However, he was Christian in his philosophy, closely associated with Lewis and Sayers.

[ShutterBug]

Harry Potter is a Messiah-figure who defeats his enemy through love - even sacrificing his own life in the last book. (yes, he is resurrected) Not that you need to go into all the literary aspects or compare it to the story of Christ with your child. But, Narnia and the story of Aslan is very much the same. (The "gateway" to Narnia from our world is created by magic.) Yet Christians embrace the Narnia tales, I suppose, because they're more openly didactic.

 

 

 

I *think* the major difference between HP and Narnia is that C.S. Lewis has always been very open with the fact that he purposely wrote the Narnia series as an allegory to the Bible. It was his intention and goal right from the start to write stories for children that would convey the messages of the Bible to them in a fantastical and engaging manner.

 

Despite what folks may want to *see* or *find* in HP, JK Rowling in no way, shape or form intended for these books to be any sort of a Christ/Messiah allegory. I still LOVE them, but if you're looking for God in them, you ain't gonna find Him, lol.

 

It's for this reason, that I believe some Christians are okay with Narnia, but not HP.

[Hedgehogs4]

thanks for the major spoiler. :glare:

 

(The "gateway" to Narnia from our world is created by magic.) Yet Christians embrace the Narnia tales, I suppose, because they're more openly didactic.

 

I avoided the books for a long time because someone told me "they teach kids to do actual magic spells." This is poppycock. Harry Potter is a beautiful love story, (not romantic, but *true* love) - a story where good defeats evil. And if you treat it as such, I bet your kids will, too.

 

Narnia is didactic / allegorical--directly intended to help people understand such things as redemption, journey of faith, struggle with sin, spiritual warfare. This is why Christians embrace Narnia, not to mention there is a large body of work from Lewis that clearly explains his orthodox positions on Christianity, hence there isn't a lot of worry about "where he's coming from." I think what really concerns Christians is the temptation that is placed by such things in our culture that distract from the truth. Deception creeps in so quickly, searching for every crack and crevice into which it can place a root. You can have a character with righteous / redeeming qualities, but if the character is portrayed as good because he made good choices, it's still not properly grounded. (I happen to believe in the doctrine of total depravity.) It is why I am cautious, and not just thinking this through, but genuinely praying about it. I really don't care if every "Christian" on the planet says "read it..." if the Holy Spirit says don't, I won't question it. At this point, I'm not sure what he's speaking to my heart, so apparently it's not time for me to make this decision. Even so, I really appreciate everyone's input. I'm actually surprised at how many people responded positively to the books, and I'm grateful to the people who have really read the books and thought it through and yet still say "not for us." Whichever way I decide it will be from a fully informed place, not one of ignorance, and I plan to make it something about which we dialogue with the kids.

[Caitilin]

This quotation from Flannery O'Connor seems particularly apropos in this discussion:

 

Poorly written novels - no matter how pious and edifying the behavior of the characters - are not good in themselves and are therefore not really edifying. Now a statement like that causes problems. An individual may be highly edified by a sorry novel because he doesn't know any better. We have plenty of examples in this world of poor things being used for good purposes. God can make any indifferent thing, as well as evil itself, an instrument for good; but I submit that to do this is the business of God and not of any human being.

[ShutterBug]

This quotation from Flannery O'Connor seems particularly apropos in this discussion:

 

Poorly written novels - no matter how pious and edifying the behavior of the characters - are not good in themselves and are therefore not really edifying. Now a statement like that causes problems. An individual may be highly edified by a sorry novel because he doesn't know any better. We have plenty of examples in this world of poor things being used for good purposes. God can make any indifferent thing, as well as evil itself, an instrument for good; but I submit that to do this is the business of God and not of any human being.

 

For this statement to be relevant HP would have to be poorly written.

 

Believe me...I didn't want to fall in love with these books and the characters within. Truth be told..I can't stomach J.K. Rowling..I find her arrogant and a bit of a *itch. However..she does have a gift and a talent not only for writing, but also for character development. Severus Snape is possibly one of the most well written, layered and developed character I've ever come across.

 

Once again..are you going to find God in HP? No. Are you going to be edified or grow a stronger and closer relationship to Christ by reading HP? Nope. Could you better spend your time doing something that glorifies God than reading HP? Sure, I mean, after all, you COULD spend time here at TWTM forums pointing out the uselessness of activities that don't edify and glorify God ;) .

[5Wizards]

Could you better spend your time doing something that glorifies God than reading HP? Sure, I mean, after all, you COULD spend time here at TWTM forums pointing out the uselessness of activities that don't edify and glorify God ;) .

 

:lol::lol:

[kokotg]

From the forward to Lord of the Rings:

 

I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history, true or feigned, with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse 'applicability' with 'allegory'; but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.

 

And there are plenty of Christians who object to Lord of the Rings, too, fwiw. My stepmother was horrified when my brother hung up a LOTR poster in his room when he was in high school. As her own kids have gotten older, she's mellowed considerably about such things. I was worried when my kids brought up Harry Potter in front of her, but she didn't bat an eye (although her own younger kids haven't read it).

 

I think the Christian imagery in HP is at least as overt as anything in LOTR.

 

And that's my contribution to this thread, as a Christian, but not a conservative one, who has no problems with Harry Potter, and who remembered reading that Tolkien quotation years ago and was inspired to dig it back up.

[Caitilin]

For this statement to be relevant HP would have to be poorly written.

 

Believe me...I didn't want to fall in love with these books and the characters within. Truth be told..I can't stomach J.K. Rowling..I find her arrogant and a bit of a *itch. However..she does have a gift and a talent not only for writing, but also for character development. Severus Snape is possibly one of the most well written, layered and developed character I've ever come across.

 

Once again..are you going to find God in HP? No. Are you going to be edified or grow a stronger and closer relationship to Christ by reading HP? Nope. Could you better spend your time doing something that glorifies God than reading HP? Sure, I mean, after all, you COULD spend time here at TWTM forums pointing out the uselessness of activities that don't edify and glorify God ;) .

 

You misread my intent here. I was trying to emphasize this:

God can make any indifferent thing, as well as evil itself, an instrument for good; but I submit that to do this is the business of God and not of any human being.

I meant not that JKR can't write, but that her writing is as liable to be used for good by God as any poorly written but heavily Christian book. I am a defender of the reading of HP, for heaven's sake!

And as for this bit:

Sure, I mean, after all, you COULD spend time here at TWTM forums pointing out the uselessness of activities that don't edify and glorify God ;)

if you'd read what I had to say up-thread you'd know that this is so far from my intent it's laughable. I am not prone to telling other people whom I don't know how they ought to spend their time--as I waste a considerable amount of time here myself, I would consider it ridiculous for me to snidely denigrate what others do with their time.

[mom31257]

I can't read this whole thread, but dh was working in an administrative position when this all came out and was being asked him opinion. He read the first couple of books and saw a few of the movies.

 

We aren't totally no magic (we love LOTR), but he didn't want our kids to read Harry Potter because he felt it was too realistic in occultic practices. I guess I would also say better safe than sorry.

[Ritsumei]

At 9, I think I'd go with a read aloud approach. And watch for signs of it being too much, because the series does get both dark & intense. But my own munchkin is younger than that & very sensitive, so that's the first thing that I'd worry about, not any potential religious conflict. It's just a story. It's (mostly) a fun story, though I just don't "get" people calling it "literature": I doubt that it'll stand the test of time because there's not enough substance to it, and the writing isn't bad, but it's not that good either.

 

I've counted a number of people who self-identify as witches & pagans among my acquaintance-friends over the years, asked a few questions about their religion, and as a result, a lot of these things people worry about with HP and Halloween and magic and so forth strike me as complete non-issues because for the most part, it's my understanding that these things are no more representative of real paganism & witchcraft than Santa Clause is representative of the real core of Christmas.

 

Now, on the other hand, if my kid wants to read The Mists of Avalon, that's another matter entirely because some of those people I know consider that essential reading for the new pagan. I've read that one, and I don't think I'd allow my child to read it before late high school, if then, and it would definitely be something we did together with a great deal of discussion & extra reading within our faith as balance.

 

But HP? Once the child has sufficient maturity to handle the story itself, no problem.

[iona]

Narnia is didactic / allegorical--directly intended to help people understand such things as redemption, journey of faith, struggle with sin, spiritual warfare. This is why Christians embrace Narnia, not to mention there is a large body of work from Lewis that clearly explains his orthodox positions on Christianity, hence there isn't a lot of worry about "where he's coming from." I think what really concerns Christians is the temptation that is placed by such things in our culture that distract from the truth. Deception creeps in so quickly, searching for every crack and crevice into which it can place a root. You can have a character with righteous / redeeming qualities, but if the character is portrayed as good because he made good choices, it's still not properly grounded. (I happen to believe in the doctrine of total depravity.) It is why I am cautious, and not just thinking this through, but genuinely praying about it. I really don't care if every "Christian" on the planet says "read it..." if the Holy Spirit says don't, I won't question it. At this point, I'm not sure what he's speaking to my heart, so apparently it's not time for me to make this decision. Even so, I really appreciate everyone's input. I'm actually surprised at how many people responded positively to the books, and I'm grateful to the people who have really read the books and thought it through and yet still say "not for us." Whichever way I decide it will be from a fully informed place, not one of ignorance, and I plan to make it something about which we dialogue with the kids.

 

i don't know if rowling is a christian, but you are right, it isn't a christian series in the sense of aligning with biblical doctrines. it is a very human series though...dealing with multi layered characters whose pasts (good or bad) shape who they are, yet they still make their own choices (good and bad). i would say the strongest 'power' in the book is love, it is what defeats evil in the end. which is a good thing.

 

as to deceptions sneaking in, they can be anywhere...even in christian circles and schools of thought. you are right we need to be watchful and teach our children to discern as well.

 

i believe in total depravity as well as common grace. That all of God's creatures can reflect different aspects of Him...often flawed and incomplete, but also beautiful and good. That is why the classics though definately not christian are worth studying.

 

you may find this article interesting about harry potter

 

http://www.memoriapress.com/articles/Spring%2008/potter.html

 

btw i really enjoyed the hp books, i read them in my twenties and i'll let my kids read them...when they are a little older.

[Ellie]

I didn't vote 'cuz you didn't have "other.":D

 

I read all of them. If I had children at home, I wouldn't want them to read HP, not until they were young adults. It isn't that HP is occult. I used to be involved in the occult, and nothing that I read in HP looked like anything *real*.

 

My objection to HP has to do with the personal relationships modelled. Everyone lies to everyone. No one trust anyone. Adults are always either evil or feeble-brained, and not to be trusted.

 

So in my family, HP wouldn't have made an appearance until dc were older teenagers.

[IsabelC]

Not being Christian, my opinion of the books wouldn't be relevant to you. But when I read "including the last one" I immediately thought that it's tantamount to torture, allowing a child to read some of a series and then not finish it :001_huh: so I'd say if you're going to veto then you should veto the entire lot.

[momto2blessings]

Our kids have seen some of the movies, we'll allow book reading if interested. We just use as a learning time and explain what is unbiblical about it. Gina

[Hedgehogs4]

i don't know if rowling is a christian, but you are right, it isn't a christian series in the sense of aligning with biblical doctrines. it is a very human series though...dealing with multi layered characters whose pasts (good or bad) shape who they are, yet they still make their own choices (good and bad). i would say the strongest 'power' in the book is love, it is what defeats evil in the end. which is a good thing.

 

as to deceptions sneaking in, they can be anywhere...even in christian circles and schools of thought. you are right we need to be watchful and teach our children to discern as well.

 

i believe in total depravity as well as common grace. That all of God's creatures can reflect different aspects of Him...often flawed and incomplete, but also beautiful and good. That is why the classics though definately not christian are worth studying.

 

you may find this article interesting about harry potter

 

http://www.memoriapress.com/articles/Spring%2008/potter.html

 

btw i really enjoyed the hp books, i read them in my twenties and i'll let my kids read them...when they are a little older.

 

you got that right...about deception creeping in even in Christian circles!! boy howdy! i think I essentially agree with you. I would like to finish reading the series myself, as I truly enjoyed the first few. I can see him reading them later...as in when he is a teen.

[Harriet Vane]

God can make any indifferent thing, as well as evil itself, an instrument for good; but I submit that to do this is the business of God and not of any human being.

I meant not that JKR can't write, but that her writing is as liable to be used for good by God as any poorly written but heavily Christian book.

 

:iagree:

[Sheila in OK]

Me too! :confused: We allow HP but I won't let dd12 read Twilight (not that she has asked, thankfully). Honestly it's more the "unhealthy romantic relationship" thing than the "vampire" thing that concerns me. But then, that's probably a whole 'nother thread . . .

 

I'm a little amazed at the thought of allowing Twilight over Harry Potter.:tongue_smilie:

[JessReplanted]

I have read all of the books. My son is 7, and I'm looking forward to sharing them with him some day. I think 9 is a good age! There is a beautiful parallel running through the story of God love for us, the spiritual war between God & satan, Jesus' sacrifice for us... I definitely think that you can use it as a tool to bring a deeper understanding of spiritual things. You just have to be intentional.

[JessReplanted]

Despite what folks may want to *see* or *find* in HP, JK Rowling in no way, shape or form intended for these books to be any sort of a Christ/Messiah allegory. I still LOVE them, but if you're looking for God in them, you ain't gonna find Him, lol. .

 

I disagree with this. I read an article right after the last book was released, in which Rowling acknowledged that she is a Christian and that she recognized that Christian themes were present throughout the entire series.

[Jan in SC]

I didn't vote 'cuz you didn't have "other.":D

 

 

My objection to HP has to do with the personal relationships modelled. Everyone lies to everyone. No one trust anyone. Adults are always either evil or feeble-brained, and not to be trusted.

 

So in my family, HP wouldn't have made an appearance until dc were older teenagers.

 

I completely disagree! I think the adults that are not evil are well thought out and very helpful on his journey.

 

We allow our children to read the books and watch the movies. They are still in the grammar/elementary stage. We also will allow them to read LOTR. I wouldn't compare the writing, but I think both have wonderful stories to tell. HP is more secular with redemptive tones throughout. LOTR is a wonderful Catholic version of redemption.

[KathyBC]

My objection to HP has to do with the personal relationships modelled. Everyone lies to everyone. No one trust anyone. Adults are always either evil or feeble-brained, and not to be trusted.

 

 

 

Dumbledore, Professor McGonagall, Mr. & Mrs. Weasley, Professor Lupin... all intelligent, trustworthy adult characters. Even Hagrid was loyal to a fault.