So how old do you think a child has to be before you can leave them in a bookstore...

[joannqn]

My daughter is pretty mature for her age, and I know I can count on both my older kids to behave but I don't trust other people. They are 10 1/2 and 8 1/2.

 

Last year I finally started letting them ride their bikes around the block together. DD could go around alone but DS couldn't. This year I let DS ride his bike around the block by himself for the first time. I'll let them go to another part of a small store or to a nearby aisle in a large store. In a smaller library, they can be in the children's section while I'm grabbing books in the nonfiction section. In a big library we stay in the children's section together, which is not necessarily within eyesight all the time, and if I need something from the adult section, we go together (it's downtown with icky people). I don't see leaving my kids anywhere in public anytime soon.

[Orthodox6]

In a public place, probably fifteen years old, with a cell phone. Only if the child truly were responsible enough to react appropriately in a crisis.

 

At home, probably 13. Again, only if the child were versed in what to do during an emergency. Only for brief period of time -- perhaps an hour if only one child at that age, a little longer if two children.

 

I'm not being exact, because everything depends on the child(ren) in question. Only within the past small number of months have I begun leaving our 16-yo ds (with Aspergers) home with his 11-yo sister while I make a short store run.

 

It is a given that I do not leave home without my cell phone, even when the 20-yo is on duty ! Everyone needs to be able to find me if something comes up.

 

Playing outside unattended is not, sadly, even an option. We live on the boundary of a commercial zone. Worse, my close friend in a nearby neighbourhood is surrounded by gang activity near her home.

[Mom22ns]

Our library has a "no children under 12 left unsupervised" policy. I will let my children browse in one department in a book store or library while I am in another, but I have never actually left them there alone (or together).

 

On the other hand, I do leave ds home alone and leave them home together for short periods. Dd doesn't like to be left home alone yet.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Or some other generally safe place (the library, a fast food restaurant)? If a responsible 11- and 8-year-old (together) are not old enough, what is the appropriate age? How old would a responsible child have to be for you to leave them home alone for little while? (DH and I have been discussing this last one--he thinks DD7 is mature enough, I say not yet.)

 

We have lived on several military bases that spell out rules for playing outside unsupervised (8), staying home alone (10) and babysitting (12).

 

10 is the magic number here when kids are required to have an ID card. That also allows them to check books out from the base library and go to the commissary/exchange without an adult.

 

I routinely let my 10 or 12 yos go to the library or the grocery store. However, they don't take the 7 yo with them. Occasionally I will let the little guy walk to a specific activity or home from something, but this is a journey of a few blocks on a military base.

 

Back home in the US, I would let the 10 and 12 stay at the library or go to another store in the mall if I were shopping elsewhere. But they wouldn't have the younger brother along.

 

My kids are pretty responsible, but I've seen more than a few kids who were their age and deserved to be tomato staked for a few months. I wouldn't have a kid in a shop or the library who wasn't old enough to be their on his own unless the older child with him was much older (say a 7 yo with a 16 yo).

[delaney]

By themselves? Not until at least 12 and with a cell phone. Having owned a daycare that number sticks in my head. Even then.....being alone really scares me. I hesitate to let my 14 year old go places alone. I would let my 14 yr old stay with one of the kids(11 or 9) in the bookstore but not the youngers.

[Truscifi]

In a public place - not sure, but probably at least 10. It will depend on how mature ds is.

 

I have already left him home alone for a short time (he's 6 and I needed to run to the corner store), but I called his grandma and had her stay on the phone with him the whole time. That way he wasn't lonely, and she could tell him how to handle anything that he wasn't sure about.

[Peela]

Being in Australia in a relatively safe suburb is different from all sorts of other places in the world.

Dh and I would leave the kids in front of a video, and go for walks in our suburb for up to half an hour, since they were about 5 and 6 years old. By the time they were 7 and 8, we would leave them and actually go to a movie during the day. But we know our kids. We instinctively felt it was ok, they were entertained and instructed not to answer the doorbell etc.

 

Leaving them in a public place such as a library...I owuld not have any problem leaving MY kids in a public place while I went off for 20 minutes when they were 7, but I usually had 2 kids, so they had each other.

 

I am definitely on the extreme end of this and have left my kids at home far earlier and more often than most people here. But it felt ok to me, and we are extremely protective.

 

I think its one of those things...you trust your instincts. You never do it just because, or because someone else does it, or because its supposed to be ok at some arbitrary age. You do it when it actually feels ok to you, in your area, at that time, with your particular kids. My kids certainly never had a problem with it and we never had any issues.

 

I dont accept the concept that one should not do it because of fear of what could happen. Fear is paralysing and not a good place to come from to make decisions regarding other people's wellbeing. We felt it was actually healthy for our kids to learn to be alone for short periods from a young age, and they always loved it that we trusted them. Yes, any number of horrible things CAN happen, but if you think like that, you would never let go of your kids at all, never let them stand on their own feet, never really do much with your life at all out of fear of what COULD happen.

 

But, I don't live in a rough area in a country with an extremely high crime rate, so my views on the issue are not necessarily very valid. I just enourage you to examine your situation from a place that isnt too fearful, and see how it feels to you.

[fivetails]

Things sure have changed... thinking back on my own childhood... not only was I babysitting by 10/11, the year that I was 11 was when some friends and I got jobs picking strawberries on a farm out of town ~ we'd get up before the sun and bike out there to pick for the morning. I still remember waking up to my little buzzer alarm that my father had given me and creeping around the house to get ready as quietly as I could, so I didn't wake my parents or siblings.....we were all 11 & 12.... the ride was over an hour, maybe close to two... the ride home always felt sooooo much longer. :tongue_smilie:

 

We had one basic rule during the summer - be home by 5pm for supper. We came, we ate, we went out again until dark...or a bit past, if a good game of *murder had gotten started. :laugh:

 

*it was a tag-type game. The person who was IT was the "killer" and was trying to "murder" the rest of us. I swear, it wasn't as creepy as it sounds. ;)

[coop]

"Home by dark" was my childhoood rule, but that was a loooooonnnnnngggg time ago.

 

I let my boys go to a different part of a store or mall I am in starting when they were about 11 and 13. I feel that they are safer together. They now have cell phones so that is even better. It's not that I don't trust my boys it's that I don't trust the other people....sad, but true.

 

I'm not sure when I will let my daughter go it alone...I tend to be a bit more protective of her.

[Parrothead]

I've left dd in the bookstore childrens' section while I'm in a different section and dh is in yet again another section since she was about 7.

 

Before we moved in Sept., I'd run to the market and leave her at home. This started about age 8/9ish. But you could see the market from the house. At the same age I'd let her and her friend walk there for ice cream. Again, it was within visual range. Now, the closest market is two blocks away. I've left her in this house with the phone, dogs, doors locked once. She did not like it so I won't leave her again until she is ready.

 

I'm thinking that this fall, when dd is 11 she will be able to walk to dance. It is a block and a half away.

 

By 12 I think I'll be able to send dd to the market on her bike or to the downtown shopping area if I need her to get something. But trolling the mall won't happen until much later - like she will have to drive herself there and meet her friends.

[ereks mom]

To be home alone, I think 12 or 13 but not with a younger sibling also. As for the store, I will have to revisit that but I am thinking at least 13 but again not with the care of a younger sibling.

 

:iagree:

[Terabith]

I think at this point the issue is less when a child is mature enough to be left in a bookstore and more about when a child is old enough that nobody will call CPS/ police.

 

Personally, I think at seven, depending on the child and the area of the store/ time/ where the parents are, leaving them alone for a very short time with a cell phone might be reasonable, in and of itself. I'm not sure the circumstances for this to be reasonable would be very common, but I think they probably do exist. By 8 or 9, I think the circumstances in which this are okay, are much, much more common. But, again, what would be reasonable in and of itself, is much less reasonable in a climate where people are likely to call CPS or the police. Which is just stupid. But, it is what it is.

[Orthodox6]

I think at this point the issue is less when a child is mature enough to be left in a bookstore and more about when a child is old enough that nobody will call CPS/ police.

 

Personally, I think at seven, depending on the child and the area of the store/ time/ where the parents are, leaving them alone for a very short time with a cell phone might be reasonable, in and of itself. I'm not sure the circumstances for this to be reasonable would be very common, but I think they probably do exist. By 8 or 9, I think the circumstances in which this are okay, are much, much more common. But, again, what would be reasonable in and of itself, is much less reasonable in a climate where people are likely to call CPS or the police. Which is just stupid. But, it is what it is.

 

Very true, Terabith.

 

As a companion warning/reminder, I would note that a child should be old enough not to attract the attention of a pedophile or kidnapper. Welcome to reality, unfortunately.

[LibraryLover]

I can't tell you why, but I can say that my children were better together. They didn't/don't fight. They get/got along well-- really good chemistry, and I guess that is a fluke of nature--and were always on the look- out for each other. My second ds is particularly mature this way, and I never hesitated leaving my kids in charge of each other when the oldest was 12. My oldest was even good at changing diapers. He didn't love it, but he was good at it. lol

[Penelope]

((

Edited May 18, 2010 by Penelope

[mom2abcd]

I just can't really imagine why I would need to leave my kids (aged 8-12) alone in a store? :confused:

 

 

 

I agree with Daisy. It's one thing to leave a (ten-year old or older) kid home once in awhile behind locked doors for a bit, but to leave them in a public place? When ds was 12, there was a boy his age molested in our local Walmart bathroom. This was in small-town America.

 

There are horrible stories of strangers hurting children. We don't live in fear, but we are aware. Think how easy it would be for someone to use chloroform on a child and carry them out of a store. Sure, it could happen with a parent in the next aisle, but how hard it would be to bear if it happened when you were not in the building.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,300836,00.html

 

http://factoidz.com/kidnap-victims-who-were-held-for-years-and-forced-to-endure-physical-and-sexual-abuse/

 

http://www.prevent-abuse-now.com/stats.htm

 

Interesting responses to this article...

http://www.parentdish.com/2010/03/30/can-a-mom-leave-her-kid-alone-at-the-library-for-three-minutes/2

[OnTheBrink]

I don't live in fear; I live in the real world. The one where predators hang out where children are left alone and go for the most vulnerable. Since I know that happens, I choose to protect my child, as much as I have control, from harm. It has nothing to do with trusting dd; it has to do with sick, evil people. In a world where a girl can be dragged from her bedroom, or killed in her own home by someone no one sees enter or leave, you bet your bottom dollar I'm going to be very conservative with when and where I allow dd to go alone. She's not shackled to my side by any stretch. But she's still young enough to be vulnerable to someone who'd approach her with a believable story. It's a fine line to walk, to teach a child to be as wise as a serpent but as gentle as a dove. I don't want her cynical of everyone she meets, but I don't want her to just assume everyone is her friend, either. They aren't.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

I don't live in fear; I live in the real world. The one where predators hang out where children are left alone and go for the most vulnerable. Since I know that happens, I choose to protect my child, as much as I have control, from harm. It has nothing to do with trusting dd; it has to do with sick, evil people. In a world where a girl can be dragged from her bedroom, or killed in her own home by someone no one sees enter or leave, you bet your bottom dollar I'm going to be very conservative with when and where I allow dd to go alone. She's not shackled to my side by any stretch. But she's still young enough to be vulnerable to someone who'd approach her with a believable story. It's a fine line to walk, to teach a child to be as wise as a serpent but as gentle as a dove. I don't want her cynical of everyone she meets, but I don't want her to just assume everyone is her friend, either. They aren't.

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

And FTR, the link that was posted to the other thread about "Free Range Children" advocates leaving 7 year olds alone at a park. Yeah, because pedophiles would NEVER hang out at a park! :glare:

[MorganClassicalPrep]

I also can't imagine why I'd need to leave DD alone in a store. Then again, she's 4.5 and when we're out in public I very nearly have a panic attack if she isn't directly in my line of sight. She tried to hide behind the racks in a clothing store once and it was not a pretty sight.

 

For me the issue of when I'll leave her alone at home or in a store is based on her maturity, but I can't see myself leaving her until 12-13. Even though she already listens very well and is fairly independent... the world is rough. There are some very scary people out there, and I don't want my daughter becoming a target.

 

When I was a child I was babysitting by 11. We were allowed to roam the neighborhood as long as we came home by the time the streetlights came on. But I lived in a *very* small town, where neighbors watched out for one another, and called to report on where the children were and what they were doing.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

And it's not just about the child's level of maturity, but about the employees of a store/library,etc. being expected to be responsible for said child.

 

Being in a locked home is VERY different than being left in a store with a cell phone. There are other ways to foster independance. I don't think it has to be done at the expense of the employee on duty.

[orangearrow]

When my oldest is 15 and my 2nd dd is 13 - I would consider leaving them in one store (like a bookstore, or music store, or restaurant) while I went to a store in the same shopping plaza (within walking distance).

 

They'd have to stay together and little brother (who would be 11 in this scenario) wouldn't be allowed to stay with them until HE is the 13 year old.

 

Just last week we were at Sam's and I realized I'd forgotten to check my blood pressure after we checked out. I had all three of the kids sit in the food court at the front/center of the store and ran (RAN) over to the blood pressure machine (at the front/right of the store), jabbed at the buttons, tried to breathe slowly, and then ran (RAN!!) back to the table where they were seated with my shopping cart. I was so worried one of the employees would be calling the cops on me for abandoning them for 2 minutes. (no one even noticed... but I was a nervous wreck about it, lol)

 

I've worked retail and I've "babysat" kids before and it sucks. These kids were, I'm sure, perfectly behaved for their parents but as soon as the parental units left - the rowdiness begins. And, in my own personal experience, those were the majority of the kids, rather than the exception. My kids are awesome, and sooooooooo well-behaved, but I've seen firsthand that they behave differently if they don't think I'm watching. ;) They're a little louder, a little sillier - because I'm not there to give them...

 

---> :angry: The Look :angry: <---

 

heh

 

(oh - and back in the day when I worked retail, if a parent were leaving their child and I didn't feel like keeping an eye on said child's safety, I would and DID stop them before leaving and explain that they could not leave their child there unattended. Some were not happy. But, I never called the cops on someone. Felt like it once or twice. ;) But, wouldn't have done it in the original scenario mentioned in the other thread. I would've just kept an eye on the kids to make sure they were okay and went about my business...)

Edited May 18, 2010 by orangearrow

[TCoppock]

I would probably leave DS alone in the book store or library for 30minutes-1hour when he is high school age. I do NOT trust strangers, especially in our town. There have be incidents of people loitering outside our library and it makes me VERY uncomfortable to think of leaving DS alone there. I will however, allow DS to stay home alone when I run a quick errand. He knows what to do and who to call in case of an emergency. We also have neighbors who are home during the day. I honestly don't know at what age I would feel comfortable leaving him home alone all day or overnight.

[forevergrace]

Maybe I'm a bit paranoid, however, just last year a nine-year-old and her eleven-year-old sister were on their way to school when tragedy struck. A convicted sex-offender pulled up next to them, got out of the car and proceeded to push the nine-year-old down and force the eleven-year-old into the car. Another mother who was walking her children to school witnessed the situation and called 911. A pedestrian chased the car down the street and memorized the license plate in his head. All to no avail!!

 

The next morning she was found wondering by a park; close to where she was abducted. Later that day they arrested the perpetrator. This happened in Tucson, in a normal neighborhood. I say normal because most parents would feel safe about letting their children ride their bikes, skip home with a friend. I say normal wanting it to be the same normal I had some twenty-five years ago. Unfortunately, there is no normal safe places anymore. This was a registered sex offender, I believe a level-3. There were two of them (sisters), they should of been safe. A child can not fend off an adult.

 

I would rather be way over protective, then to risk my daughter's life. God blessed her family and returned her home, but I cannot begin to imagine what she went through, or how scarred she is. Why even take the chance?

Forevergrace

[hsmom2girls]

I would not leave my kids alone in any store, library, etc. There are predators out there and no matter how mature one thinks their child is there are dangers out there.

 

I know most will say "you are too cautious" and that may be but I go with them everywhere or make sure they are with an adult.

 

Maybe my cautiousness stems from the fact years ago here where I live which is a quite/rural/suburb type town a teen was taken. A few weeks later another teen and her sister also were taken (off their porch) after school. All were between 14-17 years old.

 

All three were found dead. If children this old could not protect themselves "how can one" expect a 7 yo to do so. Leaving a child at a store is making them fare game for crazy people and it's plenty of them around.

 

I had no idea how many predators lived in our area until my hubby checked the registry in my area.

 

Just my 2-cents

[Margo out of lurking]

I am running out the door and don't have time to read responses. BUT I want to caution anyone who falsely believes the library is a "safe" place. I work in one. Yes, there are the expected nice, happy families, and the kids who have no where else to go after school. There are also plenty of men who are not working for any variety of reasons who sit on computers for hours at a time while online "dating" and you can only guess what else. I've called the police, seen pornography, been sexually harrassed (all separate occasions).

 

My library would be considered "safe." We are a spread out, rural county of 50,000. I am appalled at the number of people who leave their young (I'm not talking 11, I'm talking 7 or under) upstairs in the children's dept., either sticking them in front of a children's computer unsupervised, or just to browse books. Sometimes it is so the parents can do their own computer time (FB, dating, Farmville, you name it), sometimes it's parents who believe the library is "safe."

 

We've had nothing major happen (only by the grace of God). There were allegations of exposure in the men's bathroom. Our bathroom doors are now accessible only with a key, but that's because we had more vandalism than all other county buildings combined (including the courthouse). I read of arrests in our local paper and recognize the people who patronize the library. It's the only place in years where I know of people having their children taken away. The library is just waaaaaay too open, anonymous, transitory...and more. It's a place to go for those who have no other place. Don't leave your younger kids unattended.

 

Now I really have to run--off to work!

[PineFarmMom]

I would leave my 14yo with my 6 or 4yo boys. I do let my 12yo go into the book store to grab what he is wanting while I pull up in the car and wait. I wouldn't let my 12yo take my youngers in. I only started allowing him to go into stores to purchase things for me when he was getting nearer to 12.

 

We spent an hour or so in B&N, as a family, a while back. The older dc took the younger dc to other areas of the store while we were there. It as a 2-story B&N, so that made it different than all one level.

 

Honestly, I have let my 14yo dd go into a clothing store in an outlet mall while I drove down to another clothing store at the same outlet, and dh was not happy about that. If the older two kids (12 & 14) go in a store like that, he wants me either inside with them or sitting in the car outside the door, watching the door!! I'm guessing he'll have to loosen up by the time they're 16 or they won't be driving anywhere. :lol:

[PineFarmMom]

:iagree:

 

And FTR, the link that was posted to the other thread about "Free Range Children" advocates leaving 7 year olds alone at a park. Yeah, because pedophiles would NEVER hang out at a park! :glare:

 

Umm, yeah!! That's why I don't buy into the free range children thing!

[mommaduck]

Alot of this depends on the bookstore, it's location, the type of area, and the child.

[ciyates]

I let my 14 yr DS go to Shoe Carnivale while I am next door to Barnes and Nobles so that he may shop for his shoes. The main purpose is so we don't argue over the shoes. He finds them, comes and gets me and then I approve or disapprove them. This is also in Florence Kentucky where the water tower says Hi Ya'll. I really think it depends on your location and your child.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I let my 14 yr DS go to Shoe Carnivale while I am next door to Barnes and Nobles so that he may shop for his shoes. The main purpose is so we don't argue over the shoes. He finds them, comes and gets me and then I approve or disapprove them. This is also in Florence Kentucky where the water tower says Hi Ya'll. I really think it depends on your location and your child.

 

Definitely depends on your location.

 

When we lived 30 min. away, there were identified predators sitting at the park (we reported them), there was gang activity etc. I would never have let them walk to the park, be by themselves in the library etc.

 

Where we live now - we know everyone on our block. We know every single one of the librarians. And they know us well enough to e-mail my kids when they find a book that they think they would esp. like. We know all the merchants in our mall so well that many of them give us an employee discount (we walk there as a family almost every night). I know all the checkers in our grocery store, many of them by name. And they know us by name too. If our kids were to get in trouble they have a lot of people that they could go to for help. I'm not naively trusting of them - my kids have been told to never go inside a house with anyone or to a back corner etc. I try to insulate my kids somewhat from danger by giving them information so that they will not be naive. (That's how I ended up being r*ped in college) But I don't live in fear.

[OnTheBrink]

I let my 14 yr DS go to Shoe Carnivale while I am next door to Barnes and Nobles so that he may shop for his shoes. The main purpose is so we don't argue over the shoes. He finds them, comes and gets me and then I approve or disapprove them. This is also in Florence Kentucky where the water tower says Hi Ya'll. I really think it depends on your location and your child.

 

I don't think a water tower with "Hi Y'all" is an indicator that the town is free of pedophiles. People are people, everywhere. Evil knows no bounds.

 

I used to live in a very small, rural town of 1,400 people. No one locked doors, kids played outside unsupervised, etc. But yet, one of the junior high teachers (A FEMALE) was carrying on with one of her male students. Small towns, friendly water towers, idyllic appearances mean nothing.

[dragons in the flower bed]

A responsible child in a familiar place with a cell phone? Eight. I'd worry about well-meaning strangers harassing him about where his parents are, and maybe calling the police, but I'd still do it.

 

Can I change my response? Actually... I would in a state that didn't have laws about leaving children home alone. I do differentiate between leaving a child alone in a large group of people and leaving a child alone at home, but I don't think the law would.

Edited May 18, 2010 by dragons in the flower bed

[OnTheBrink]

I would not leave my kids alone in any store, library, etc. There are predators out there and no matter how mature one thinks their child is there are dangers out there.

 

I know most will say "you are too cautious" and that may be but I go with them everywhere or make sure they are with an adult.

 

Maybe my cautiousness stems from the fact years ago here where I live which is a quite/rural/suburb type town a teen was taken. A few weeks later another teen and her sister also were taken (off their porch) after school. All were between 14-17 years old.

 

All three were found dead. If children this old could not protect themselves "how can one" expect a 7 yo to do so. Leaving a child at a store is making them fare game for crazy people and it's plenty of them around.

 

I had no idea how many predators lived in our area until my hubby checked the registry in my area.

 

Just my 2-cents

 

:iagree:

 

Frankly, I'd much rather be labeled as "over-protective" than be that sobbing woman on the news, begging for her abducted child back.

[Blessedfamily]

Definitely depends on your location.

 

When we lived 30 min. away, there were identified predators sitting at the park (we reported them), there was gang activity etc. I would never have let them walk to the park, be by themselves in the library etc.

 

Where we live now - we know everyone on our block. We know every single one of the librarians. And they know us well enough to e-mail my kids when they find a book that they think they would esp. like. We know all the merchants in our mall so well that many of them give us an employee discount (we walk there as a family almost every night). I know all the checkers in our grocery store, many of them by name. And they know us by name too. If our kids were to get in trouble they have a lot of people that they could go to for help. I'm not naively trusting of them - my kids have been told to never go inside a house with anyone or to a back corner etc. I try to insulate my kids somewhat from danger by giving them information so that they will not be naive. (That's how I ended up being r*ped in college) But I don't live in fear.[/QUOTE]

 

:grouphug: sister

[Laura Corin]

My concern is with what the shop staff will think about it. Will they challenge the children and say they must leave? That would be very uncomfortable. I think I started leaving the boys together in a book shop when they were 12 and 9.

 

FWIW, my 13yo is not allowed to arrive for Taekwondo (at a public hall) before the teachers arrive - the caretaker will not allow minors onto the premises, as he doesn't want the responsibility. Calvin sits on a bench outside until his teacher arrives if he's early.

 

Laura

Edited May 18, 2010 by Laura Corin

[Jean in Newcastle]

My concern is with what the shop staff will think about it. Will they challenge the children and say they must leave? That would be very uncomfortable. I think I started leaving the boys together in a book shop when they were 12 and 9.

 

FWIW, my 13yo is not allowed to arrive for Taekwondo (at a public hall) before the teachers arrive - the caretaker will not allow minors onto the premises, as he doesn't want the responsibility. Calvin sits on a bench outside until his teacher arrives if he's early.

 

Laura

 

See, this is why I think it helps that we know the shopkeepers, librarians etc. so well. I ask them if I can leave for a few minutes (perhaps 20). I listen to their answer. I make sure that they know that they are not responsible for babysitting - that my kids have a way of reaching me and that I'm still their guardian. If they seem hesitant then I will take my kids with me. And I let them know that I definitely want to know if there was a problem while I was gone so that I don't put them in that position again. So far there haven't been problems but then so far I've only totally left them to go to another location - instead of being in another part of the store - two times. I do not want to violate store policy and I do not want to put people in the position where they wonder if they should call authorities or not.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I just can't really imagine why I would need to leave my kids (aged 8-12) alone in a store? :confused:

 

 

 

:iagree: After I saw the Oprah show in which they demonstrated that it took about only 15 seconds to lure kids away from a park despite the fact that the children had been educated about strangers and what not:001_huh: Every kid that day flunked the experiment from what I recall and all happily went with a stranger:svengo: Needless to say all of their parents were shocked since they thought their kids knew better since they were instructed about strangers.

 

I have educated ds in continuing conversations in a way to not frighten him, but I still think it will years for this lesson to sink in since he is a kid IMHO. Therefore, I will not be leaving him alone until about 14 or so depending on his maturity;)

Edited May 18, 2010 by priscilla
grammar

[RoughCollie]

Every kid that day flunked the experiment from what I recall and all happily went with a stranger:svengo:

 

I think it is the "face of evil" problem. So many people, including kids especially, expect the evil that walks among us to look evil or to have some characteristic which brands them.

 

They don't. Evil people look just like everyone else, and they can be very friendly, polite, and charming, too. (Ted Bundy is an example of this, but he is merely the most infamous.) Meanwhile, the person who looks like a nasty old curmudgeon can be the most honest and generous person in the world.

Edited May 18, 2010 by RoughCollie

[KristenS]

Haven't read the rest, but...

 

Our library system says that anyone under (I think) 12 must be supervised by a responsible adult. And they won't hesitate to get an unescorted child picked up if it becomes necessary. (Do you want to know how many times we'd be closing up our out-in-the-boonies branch and have some kid left behind, with no parent in sight, no way to reach a parent, and the kid with no clue what to do? Only recourse was the local police department. The teens always said they'd just wait on the porch, their ride would be along soon ... and we were more of the "over our dead body" mindset ... anything could happen way out there and no one would've known!)

 

And there is no such thing as a safe place anymore. :( Your innocent 7yo walks behind a person using a computer ... do you know what that person is looking at? (No, you don't want to know, trust me! Rules or no rules, they find ways around!) Your child has to use the bathroom ... better have two kids of the same gender to be buddies, because otherwise who knows what might happen there? And there are always corners where librarians' vision is obscured, even if they do happen to be keeping an eye on your child ... which they do not have the time to do, and are not supposed to be legally responsible for doing.

 

I would check the ages for being left home alone in your state ... that might be a good guideline. But having seen so much via different jobs ... my kids will probably have a driver's license before I let 'em stay most places! (Neighborhood park, perhaps sooner. We'll see. LOL.)

 

Also, check the age for someone to be considered old enough to be 'responsible' for another child ... a 14yo might be old enough to be alone, but not considered old enough by the library to supervise even an 11yo sibling. Needs to be asked.

[OnTheBrink]

I think it is the "face of evil" problem. So many people, including kids especially, expect the evil that walks among us to look evil or to have some characteristic which brands them.

 

They don't. Evil people look just like everyone else, and they can be very friendly, polite, and charming, too. (Ted Bundy is an example of this, but he is merely the most infamous.) Meanwhile, the person who looks like a nasty old curmudgeon can be the most honest and generous person in the world.

 

Yep. If evil looked evil, people would know it was evil and run from it. More often than not, evil looks very pleasant. It's part of being evil.

[Terabith]

:iagree:

 

Frankly, I'd much rather be labeled as "over-protective" than be that sobbing woman on the news, begging for her abducted child back.

 

I'm concerned about this. On the one hand, of course one does not want anything to happen to a child. But, on the other hand, nobody, of any age, is ever completely safe. My worry is that if we do not allow children the freedom (that is inherently accompanied with risk), they will not grow into competent individuals and adults. It's a process, and it is difficult for a child to go from not being allowed to be alone to being capable and responsible adults with all the competencies that are a part of that in the matter of only a couple years.

[Aggie]

I think most children are considered "mature for their ages", as long as nothing is going wrong.

 

It's when something bad happens that we learn whether or not a child is mature *enough* for that situation. It's difficult for many adults to make a good quick decision in a crisis...how much more difficult would it be for a child?

 

We try to prepare them to be responsible, but even our best attempts are made in completely safe environments, right? We wouldn't knowingly put our child in a situation where she could be harmed just to teach responsibility or competence. So how do we know how they'll act when something bad happens? We don't.

 

We can be great parents, experienced, know our children well. Our kids can be well-behaved, predictable, thoughtful, mature, compliant, etc. What are the other factors we can't control or even foresee? A pedophile dressed as a mall cop, an obnoxious teen with malicious intent, a clumsy customer with a hot cup of coffee that spills on our child? Will a hurt or scared child have the presence of mind to do what needs to be done in an emergency?

 

It is a process, but one that can be quickly learned, ime. Just because a 12yo isn't left at a store by himself doesn't mean he'll never be responsible. It doesn't mean the process will be stalled, either. There are many ways in which people learn life skills, some without actual risks.

 

Like previous posters have said, it's not just my kids I have to consider...it's employees of a store, too. When my dc are home alone, I am still responsible for their safety. In a store or library, does that responsibility shift? Or appear to shift? Am I creating a burden on an employee who feels she must now, in addition to her job, make sure my child is safe?

 

Just my 2 cents...

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I think most children are considered "mature for their ages", as long as nothing is going wrong.

 

It's when something bad happens that we learn whether or not a child is mature *enough* for that situation. It's difficult for many adults to make a good quick decision in a crisis...how much more difficult would it be for a child?

 

We try to prepare them to be responsible, but even our best attempts are made in completely safe environments, right? We wouldn't knowingly put our child in a situation where she could be harmed just to teach responsibility or competence. So how do we know how they'll act when something bad happens? We don't.

 

We can be great parents, experienced, know our children well. Our kids can be well-behaved, predictable, thoughtful, mature, compliant, etc. What are the other factors we can't control or even foresee? A pedophile dressed as a mall cop, an obnoxious teen with malicious intent, a clumsy customer with a hot cup of coffee that spills on our child? Will a hurt or scared child have the presence of mind to do what needs to be done in an emergency?

 

It is a process, but one that can be quickly learned, ime. Just because a 12yo isn't left at a store by himself doesn't mean he'll never be responsible. It doesn't mean the process will be stalled, either. There are many ways in which people learn life skills, some without actual risks.

 

Like previous posters have said, it's not just my kids I have to consider...it's employees of a store, too. When my dc are home alone, I am still responsible for their safety. In a store or library, does that responsibility shift? Or appear to shift? Am I creating a burden on an employee who feels she must now, in addition to her job, make sure my child is safe?

 

Just my 2 cents...

:iagree: 100%

 

I do not think it stunts a child's growth if you do not let them roam freely. I also remember very vividly my lack of mature judgement as a kid and I was a good, smart kid, but I was still a kid. I just believe that kids do not have the discernment of adults yet and therefore should be protected.

 

OTOH, I also think our society tends to coddle kids in that I think high school should end after 10th grade and kids should then go to college, trade school, or an apprenticeship:D I think kids should have rules and expectations and chores and responsibilities. I think you can do all of these things and still protect kids.

 

I also realize that stranger abduction is very rare. Consequently, I do not live in fear, but I take what IMO are sensible precautions. Also, even though stranger abductions are rare, I had the proverbial guy in a car approach a friend and I with an offer of candy if we went with him. Thank goodness we refused. I also had 2 classmates in 4th grade who were brutally murdered by a stranger:( So even though it is rare, I have heard of one too many stories about this:(

 

MY 2 cents:)

Edited May 19, 2010 by priscilla
missing "not" in sentence:)

[angela in ohio]

I'm concerned about this. On the one hand, of course one does not want anything to happen to a child. But, on the other hand, nobody, of any age, is ever completely safe. My worry is that if we do not allow children the freedom (that is inherently accompanied with risk), they will not grow into competent individuals and adults. It's a process, and it is difficult for a child to go from not being allowed to be alone to being capable and responsible adults with all the competencies that are a part of that in the matter of only a couple years.

 

Yes, but why start at 7 or 8, or 10 for that matter? If you wait until 12 or 13, you still have 5 or 6 years for them to develop their competency at being endependent. A 12 or 13 yo is, on average, physically larger, and has made the develomental advancement to the point of being able to reason in a way an 8 yo cannot. I don't know where the rush comes from. It's like when the public schools are having trouble with high school students writing, so they make first graders start writing two page papers. Why not just wait until they are mature enough to write well and then work hard at it? I don't think the problem of immature 18 yos has anything to do with whether they had enough freedom at age 8. I think there are a lot of other causes, but I don't think that is one of them. jmho :001_smile:

[HeidiKC]

Less than 30 minutes - age 11, otherwise 12. Home or public place.

 

I think you'd stand a pretty good chance of getting into trouble with the law if you left a 7-year-old home alone. I'd almost be more likely to leave him/her alone in a public place (but I absolutely never would) if it was smallish and the owner was familiar with the child.

 

I will leave my almost 11-year-old alone at our school chess club and that kind of thing. Something supervised.

[shastanarnia]

I was reading this thread with interest. I also live in a small-town rural area. I don't for a minute think that it's safer just because of it's size and/or isolation. However, when your kids are known by store clerks it does make a difference. We have a small store that is beside our house. The kids have all been expected to go over to make a small purchase since they were about 9 years old. The clerks all know them and they know not to talk to anyone else. We also live on a mission "compound" of sorts (although it is in a small town...hence the store beside our house)....so there are always trustworthy people about during the daytime. I will leave my 10 year old and 6 year old for a short time during the day, as long as there are staff about. I probably would not do this if we lived somewhere else, however.

 

The issue of leaving the kids in a store is more difficult. I have never yet left my kids alone in Walmart, but I will let the oldest (15 and 13) go with the younger two to another area of the store while I am shopping. Or, conversely, I have let the 15 year old shop for groceries while I am in the store. I would not feel comfortable leaving them in the store by themselves. I would rather have them locked in my van in the parking lot with my cell phone than in the store without me. Does that make sense? I think that they are less vunerable in the van then in the store. Hmmm....any thoughts on that one?

 

Also...I did find the "free range children" concept interesting...it reminds me of 'free range chickens" though...our friends have all be losing theirs to predators lately....another thought....

[ciyates]

I don't think a water tower with "Hi Y'all" is an indicator that the town is free of pedophiles. People are people, everywhere. Evil knows no bounds.

 

I used to live in a very small, rural town of 1,400 people. No one locked doors, kids played outside unsupervised, etc. But yet, one of the junior high teachers (A FEMALE) was carrying on with one of her male students. Small towns, friendly water towers, idyllic appearances mean nothing.

:iagree:

 

I am not suggesting this area is free of dangerous people, however my DS is 5'8 155 of solid muscle and is often mistake for being much older. He isn't the typical target for a sexual predator. Also this area is fairly free of gangs and thug elements. It was on a Wednesday around noon. The decision may have been very different if it was a Friday evening and the mall was busy.

 

Not to throw another curve in the thread my decision would have been different if he was a female of the same age.

 

I like the concept of "loading their lips". We put DS in semi controlled situations and run through situations with him so he is some what prepared. It is a fine balance between empowering them to make good decisions and overprotecting them.

[forevergrace]

For all those living in small-towns, check your registry. You will be shocked to see who is living on your street. The ones that are registered (child molesters) are the ones you see. How many don't register? Many, I worked as a residential counselor w/severely abused children for about four-years (1990-1994). I was shocked at the severity and trauma that theses children had been through. We don't hear about all of it everyday, and you don't understand the depth of abuse until you see these children.

 

Now let me ask you this; does this look like evil?

http:http://www.kvoa.com/news/empire-high-school-teacher-arrested-

for-sex-crime/

 

Call me crazy, but I thought the concept "free-range" related to chemical free cattle and chickens. I'm not trying to be catty, but I find this really funny. My dd and her friends can "free-range" it in my back yard, enclosed by a very large fence and guarded by her two dogs. Under the watchful eye of her me (the MOM), because I'd shoot anything that ventured onto my yard with the wrong intentions. I know, great mentality, but sadly I've just seen too much happen w/innocent children.

 

One more fact; there is no cure for sexual perpetrators. They cannot be reformed, no medication, no shock-treatment (perhaps a lobotomy) will ever make them o.k. They are not like alcoholics or addicts. They can never be made all better.

Forevergrace

[forevergrace]

Sorry, I just get going and my typing goes out the window.

Forevergrace

Now let me ask you this; does this look like evil?

http:http://www.kvoa.com/news/empire-high...cher-arrested-

for-sex-crime/

 

Here is the correct site:

http://www.kvoa.com/news/empire-high-school-teacher-arrested-for-sex-crime/