My son got detention for next week for....

[Mosaicmind]

Nathan is 12 and right now is attending public middle school. He is in the 6th grade. Friday at lunch he sat down by and kid and with no provocation (and I have investigated this) the kid punched him in the arm. Nathan called the kid a "jerk" and then the kid punched Nathan in the nose causing his nose to bleed. Nathan went to the nurse's office but told no one what happened. He didn't want to make the kid any angrier or make a big deal out of it. Anyway, another kid told a teacher and soon the principal called Nathan and the kid in his office.

 

The kid is suspended for one day for punching Nathan in the nose. Nathan got detention for calling him a jerk after he hit him the first time. I learned all about this after Nathan got off the bus on Friday. I got no call from the school about any of it!!

 

Am I over-reacting if I say that I don't think it is right for them to give Nathan detention over calling the kid a jerk? He could have called him worse or hit the kid, but he didn't. I am also so livid over the fact that I wasn't called immediately when they found out about this or told that my son was being interviewed by the principal. My husband says there is no way he is serving this detention and if he has to he will stay home Monday morning and go to the school himself and tell them that. If they push the issue he asked me if I had a problem with pulling him out of school right then? I said, "no."

 

Nathan had tried grade school one year and had been bullied then, so he came back home. This year he begged to go to middle school thinking it would be different and it's been worse. He says he doesn't care if he stays in school or not and now he is scared to go back fearing the kid will be even more mad since he got detention.

[SonshineLearner]

I'd say... let's see... was the kid being a JERK to hit my son?? So, my son used his words instead of hitting him.... and that got him a detention. Seriously, you can try the win win way of doing it. I'd like to make an appt. to talk about a situation. My son believes he is getting a detention because he used his words to call the other student a "jerk" instead of hitting back. I've explained to Nathan (is that his name?) that his father and I believe that he misunderstood. He's not getting a detention, correct?? If so, a letter from an attorney should straighten things right up.

 

"=_

[cathmom]

Welcome to the immediate cause of why we started homeschooling way back in 1997. My son got suspended because of a similar situation, but, oh by the way, he was only in first grade!

[Jenny Piaaree]

Well, my answer is probably going to be very unpopular. Please use your words only and don't beat me up! :001_smile: But, seriously, call in an attorney for a detention, no matter how undeserved?

 

If it were my son, I would commend him for not hitting the other boy back and express empathy that he was not the aggravator. But I would let him serve the detention for a couple of reasons. 1) It's not the end of the world. 2) Whereas the other boy most decidedly acted like a jerk or worse, the better reaction would have been not to have called him that. After all, I don't think "using your words" was ever intended to mean name-calling. So to the extent that calling the boy a jerk escalated the situation instead of diffusing it, it was not the best choice. (I totally understand that the boy was being a jerk, that your son could have called him much worse, and that punching your son in the nose was a completely unpredicted overreaction. I will also mention that my son was involved in a similar incident and didn't do as well as yours did! :tongue_smilie:) Was it bad enough to earn a detention? I would say probably not, but the school as the authority in charge felt it was, and maybe it's a gray area open to subjective opinion; so with such a little to lose, why not uphold their authority? Respect for authority is a valuable, though increasingly rare, quality. I would definitely encourage it and model it.

 

I would also use it as an opportunity to point out to my son that returning evil with even just a little, tiny evil can sometimes produce very bad results. Even when we are not the instigators, our reactions to situations contribute to their outcome, and we are responsible for our choices. After all, in a few years from now when your son is driving on the freeway and someone purposely cuts him off, do you want him to call that guy a jerk, when the "jerk" might be crazy enough to pull a gun or try to run him off the road?

 

That said, I would speak to the prinicipal to make sure he (and I) fully understands the situation; I would also seek his assurance and perhaps some particulars about how he proposes to protect my son against further bullying. Because whereas unjust detention may be tolerable, bullying is not.

 

OK, you can all attack now. ;)

[Jean in Newcastle]

The detention incident and whether you bring him home to homeschool need to be separated a bit in my mind. I don't mean that the school culture and "socialization" can't be part of the decision to homeschool, but I personally would want to have thought through what you want academically for your son. Once you've decided that, and if you think you can provide good academics at home, then it is time to bring him home. (I personally think that you can provide very good academics at home but do think that needs to be a priority for the homeschooling parent in order for it to happen).

 

If you want to keep him in the school for academic reasons then you will need to decide how you deal with the school culture of "across the board" punishment. If you want to bring him home for academic as well as social reasons then it seems a moot point to address the detention - just bring him home.

[Riceballmommy]

I think it's a bit much to give a kid detention for calling someone who hit them a jerk. I also think that you should have been called. They advocated "using your words" when I was in middle school, you think they'd support that rather than punishing it. I definitely think it's a good idea and go talk to the school. If you and your husband want to pull your son out of school and go back to homeschooling, I think that's perfectly fine too. Especially if your son is on board.

[asta]

Unpopular response here.

 

This is, I'm sorry to say, middle school. It might as well be re-named Middle "Lord of the Flies" School.

 

Should your kid have gotten detention? And the other kid not have gotten it? I don't think so. But you already knew that. But on some level, you had to have known something like this was going to happen going "back into the system".

 

This isn't a simple matter of "boy punches boy, other boy says something, first boy retaliates". From the standpoint of the "outside world", this is what happened:

 

Normal middle school boy slugs (not punches, slugs - because this is how it is inevitably being viewed) the arm of the "new boy" when he sits down at the cafeteria table. This is a type of pre-pubescent initiation into the established social order of the 6th grade class by the "head boy". How your boy reacts to this action will, conversely establish HIS position in the social order.

 

Possible reactions:

 

"Hey dude/man/Joe - what's up? Can you believe what's passing for lunch today?" Snort, chuckle

 

"Ow - you have a mean punch - are you in Akido? I've always thought martial arts were cool."

 

 

Actual reaction:

 

"Jerk".

 

 

What is heard:

 

"I am superior to you, you lowlife public school snot, and you dare not touch me."

 

Response:

 

A bloody nose

 

Reaction:

 

Running to the nurse. Which is perceived by every other 6th grade boy as "running to mommy".

 

 

We can't just "put our kids in public school" without also teaching them about things like social pecking orders. Additionally, it is a basic fact (and we've gone over it on this board) that everyone from the administration down to the teachers has had a poorly educated home "schooled" child dumped on them at some point or another and therefore has a bad taste in their mouth whenever a new one shows up after several years out of the system (and no, it does not matter if this one, your kid, happens to be a great kid - the bad taste is already established).

 

So what happens? The HS kid is labeled a snobby instigator, and the other kid is left alone. Why? Because the other kid wasn't doing anything unusual for the social order that exists, and your kid was. Your kid was essentially correcting the teacher.

 

It isn't right, it isn't fair, it isn't many things. But it is real life. I didn't want my kid in middle school - I knew what a nightmare it was. But he will have to go out into the real world where people will slug him (physically or metaphorically), and he has to know that answering with "jerk" will only get him in more trouble. He has to know how to navigate based on the situation he is in, not based on the situation in which he was raised. I'm NOT saying you raised your kid to respond with "jerk" - I'm saying that it does not appear he knew how to assess the situation he found himself in. I know for fact that my son would not have been able to have done so at that age, which is part of why he did not go to PS. He is just now learning, at 16.

 

Good luck, mom.

 

 

a

[Pippen]

I agree that it's over the top to give a detention for calling another kid a jerk as a response. FYI: Many schools will punish both students involved in any altercation unless the victim was basically motionless and silent, which means most of the time.

 

A few weeks into high school my oldest came home very upset because he got a 3 hour Saturday dentention. After hearing him out I called the school to find out the teacher's side of things, then I talked with him some more, then called the administrator in charge of discipline. I decided they'd way over-reacted to a student with a totally clean record (this would have maybe been a 30 minute after school detention had I been the teacher).

 

Bottom line was I was going to have to go up the food chain to appeal and my son and I decided it wasn't worth it. I told him I held him responsible for 30 minutes, bought him a novel he was wanting to read for the rest of the time, and dropped him off to do his time. I didn't think it was fair, but it wound up being a good lesson in his watching us deal with the problem--including involving him in the decision whether to fight it or suck it up--as he's going to encounter those situations throughout his lifetime.

[Lizzie in Ma]

Middle Schools are hell holes. Sorry your son got hit and unjustly punished.

[nono]

A parallel in real life:

So, your son graduates and is at a convention tied to work, which clearly publishes a code of conduct for the event. Co-worker and your son get in a fight on the street over a misunderstanding. Co-worker may have even instigated it. (unclear) Company takes away both mens' merit awards and bonuses for the year. Are you going to call the HR department and tell them how to run their company? You probably aren't*, but if you call the school now, you may set up that expectation in your son for this later incident.

 

Maybe the best use of this opportunity is to teach how one can't predict/control the consequences once they've done wrong, even if both parties were wrong or one was clearly more wrong.

 

 

*though anecdotally, I understand that people indeed are doing that nowadays. YIKES!

[kalanamak]

Nathan had tried grade school one year and had been bullied then, so he came back home. This year he begged to go to middle school thinking it would be different and it's been worse. He says he doesn't care if he stays in school or not and now he is scared to go back fearing the kid will be even more mad since he got detention.

 

 

What does detention entail?

 

And, when I was a kid, the fastest way to be accepted was to get into trouble. I was a complete, quiet nobody until I was picked up by the police for skipping school (first time, I was a real amateur). Reaction at school: "wow, you were always such a goody-two-shoes we thought you were a nark" and I had, well, not friends, but at least people who would talk to me after that. I didn't plan it that way, but it worked. Everyone loosened up around me.

 

Getting a bloody nose and getting detention might make his school life easier. Possibly. Just a thought.

[swellmomma]

With the zero tolerance policies most schools have adopted unless your son simply walked away from the first punch (which is exactly what he should have done imo) then he bears some of the responsibility for the altercation. I would have him serve the detention and then if you want to still hs him do so. Otherwise he may start to think everytime something happens that he feels is unjust you guys will run to his rescue and pull him out of whatever it is. There is a time for this forsure, but I do not believe this is one of those times. I served a lot of detentions in ps, only 1 time did my mom step in, and that was when more than 1/2 the class was given a 30 minute DT because we got more than 3 words wrong on a social studies spelling test(most of us had troubles spelling the ocean names-we were only in 4th grade). My mom showed up at the school, dismissed the class and spent the next 30 minute chewing out the teacher. Any other time we learned to suck it up and accept responsibility for our part, no matter how minor, in whatever incident caused the DT in the first place.

 

My dd had daily detentions, and a suspension in grade 1 because she didn't want to do the work. She was lippy and defiant to the teacher. I supported every detention right up until I found a job that let me hs, because I knew it was important for her to learn to obey authority. This was not the teacher telling her to do inappropriate things, it was things like come join us for circle time, or lets all go to the music room and my dd would refuse in a not so polite way.

 

Anyway my point it, whether you like it or not, your son had other options on how to handle the situation. Using your words does not mean name calling. It means saying "Hey, knock that out" or "What did you do that for?" He could have simply got up and walked away. Name calling escalated the incident, and though your son was hurt, he is responsible for his part in it, and should serve the detention.

[i.love.lucy]

Respect for authority is a valuable, though increasingly rare, quality. I would definitely encourage it and model it.

 

I would also use it as an opportunity to point out to my son that returning evil with even just a little, tiny evil can sometimes produce very bad results. Even when we are not the instigators, our reactions to situations contribute to their outcome, and we are responsible for our choices.

These are wise words, IMO.

[TCoppock]

Unfortunately, schools are NOT the real world. In the real world someone hits me. I call the police. They get charged.

 

If I'm bullied at work I go to HR. If the problem isn't resolved I leave.

 

I refuse to accept that "kids will be kids."

 

I would never expect my child to stay in an enviroment that was harmful to his physical or emotional well being.

 

Only you know what is best for your child. I don't think your child deserved to be punished, but know that (at least in the school around me) both kids are always punished when there is a fight.

[Quad Shot Academy]

Before I said anything to anyone, I would ask what happened. Who knows what the other boy said your son did! Something like, "I am calling because my son got detention and from his side of the story I can't figure out why. Could you tell me what the other boy's side of the story is?" :grouphug:

[Catherine]

Well said. ITA.

[HollyDay]

The schools in our area have a "it takes 2" attitude. They suspend both (or all) kids involved in a situation. No matter who did or said what.

[Catherine]

We're often called upon to handle aggression in "real life" and it rarely (in fact never) has involved a call to the authorities in my life. Aggressive drivers, verbally (occasionally physically threatening) abusive patients (I work in health care), mean comments from "friends"-I count this all as aggression. The healthiest and most sane response is to "pass the bean dip". Get up and walk away. I'd not encourage a child to go to the authorities if they were both a victim and a participant-regardless of the disproportionateness of the aggressor's response. "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

[happyhomemaker25]

Want to be really riled up?

When DCF showed up at my house last year to question my adopted 9 year old about something that had happened 4 years ago between her (then 5) and another little boy in our home (then 4) and I would not let them talk to her until I talked to my lawyer the worker smiled and in a snarky way informed me that if she'd been in school they would have just gone in and questioned her and I would have never had to know.

I say that to say you might never have known about the detention if your son had not told you. Finding out that they could talk to my kids and even outsiders could come in and talk to my kids and I did not have to be informed just renewed our conviction to homeschool.

I have heard enough horror stories of junk just like that in Middle school that I don't think I would ever start my homeschooler back in middle school.

Name calling and punching are two different things. Calling someone a jerk for being a jerk is not a problem in my opinion. There should be no recourse for that.

And he's a little boy not a grown man! Why we try to act like our kids are supposed to act like they are grown ups is beyond me. We are their defenders. It's not the same thing as something happening in the working world. And ya know what? I worked plenty of places and calling someone a jerk for being a jerk was never punished. If a grown man hit another grown man and the one being hit called the bully a jerk and the JERK hit him again he would be fired. The guy being hit would not have been punished at all. Seriously.

And from experience walking away from the bully does not always work out. Sometimes you have to stand up to him and call him out when his behavior is unacceptable or he will see you as an easy target. The bully does not want someone who is going to make him work to be a bully.

[LBS]

First, there are many interpretations here of what happened and how the exchange could be perceived. My opinion is that only two matter: your son's and the admin at the school. Talk to both. For your son, you need to go talk to the admin to at least better understand, and at most, clarify the situation (this may not have even made it to the head principal; did your child clearly explain his side of the story whilst standing next to the bully who was telling his version?, etc.) If it is a poor admin, then they'll know they have to deal with you if they treat your son without careful consideration.

 

Secondly, your son needs to see that you will advocate for him, support him, be there if he needs you. IF this is an adult misunderstanding, then you need to be in there for him, since adults (admin) are using their adult status to shortchange your child. You are not going to call the parents of the other boy, or talk to the other boy, both of which are not acceptable advocation. If the policy decrees that the word "jerk" is considered retalitation, then your son will serve his sentence. We have 0 tolerance in our schools, and screaming obscenities or any contact will get the victim in trouble too. Hitting back is not okay. A word like jerk is absolutely legit. I told my son, a large kid, that if he got physically attacked, to try to walk away, block any blows, and if he had no choice, fight back. Having no choice, means trying words, trying to get away, trying to get help, trying to restrain the other person, etc. all as calmly as possible. BUT, as much as I abhor physical violence, a big kid gets targeted, and he used force once, on a very small bully, throwing food at him, heckling etc. He walked on thru him, when the bully blocked his way out of the cafeteria. He just walked straight on his path, and said "oops, sorry, I didn't see you." Okay, this was not attractive, but he was true to himself, it worked, non-violent, etc. The kid started sitting with him....nobody else bothered him, that year.

 

 

Third, and this is subtle, the admin, teachers and everyone at that school needs to see that your son has parent backup and awareness. A zillion kids are sent to school to be parented, we all know that. YOUR child needs your presence as a volunteer, as the parent who comes to every open house or parent/teacher conference, a parent who calls and checks to make sure attendance records are straight, who e-mails to make sure he's okay in class. NOT hovering, but supportive. I assure you the teachers will appreciate this, and respect you for it. Also, you'll get the phone call, from the nurse or admin if ANYTHING happens involving your son. You need to tell them this also. Some of you may say he needs to handle this on his own, well he will in college, and more in high school. Middle school is not there yet! This is such a difficult age, nobody loves these kids all the time, even when they belong to us :001_smile:. Your child got standard treatment probably. Well, if all you do is show your face, and let it be known that your child has a good home, and good support, then that may be all you can do. If all you can do is get this off his permenent record, that is good.

 

Go to the admin who handled this, but then go to the head guy immediately after. Go make friends with the nurse, by taking her a large bottle of advil for the teachers. Tell her you want a call from your kid, if he comes to her for any reason.

 

Biggest tip I give middle school parents: get to know your son's counselor, get on good footing, and set it up, so that he can go to her if he has any problem. He can walk out of class and straight to her, if needed. My daughter did this a couple times, between classes. His counselor can watch over him, watch out for him, and fix issues that come up, so quickly, and it is especially better if there is already a trusting and familiarity with her.

 

A whole nother way of looking at this: your son may get some good attention from other kids for having survived this session with that bully, and for surviving detention: misery loving company, and the kids are all in the same boat. It may not serve him well for you to get him out of the situation. One of my kids would have died rather than go thru an unjust detention, she wanted the record set straight. The other wanted to handle it all himself, but that was in high school....and he was 6'2" by then, so that's a different set of issues.

 

Well, that's my two cents. I got two thru public school quite well, safely, with only a few incidents. Then my third and youngest did not even make it thru the elementary school, targeted by bullies and teachers, ADD making him not the easiest, at the same time that our schools got so crowded that he needed to be no trouble and to ride the conveyer belt without any glitches to get a decent education.

 

 

I'm not sure if I was clear, but I really want to emphasize that you may not know the whole story and you need to make your presence and support of your child clear to teachers, staff and admin, if only to keep it fair.

Good, good luck,

LBS

[happyhomemaker25]

The schools in our area have a "it takes 2" attitude. They suspend both (or all) kids involved in a situation. No matter who did or said what.

 

 

I have heard of that. Disgusting. Sounds just like the real world to me. (Insert sarcastic smiley).

[Stacy in NJ]

Unpopular response here.

 

This is, I'm sorry to say, middle school. It might as well be re-named Middle "Lord of the Flies" School.

 

Should your kid have gotten detention? And the other kid not have gotten it? I don't think so. But you already knew that. But on some level, you had to have known something like this was going to happen going "back into the system".

 

This isn't a simple matter of "boy punches boy, other boy says something, first boy retaliates". From the standpoint of the "outside world", this is what happened:

 

Normal middle school boy slugs (not punches, slugs - because this is how it is inevitably being viewed) the arm of the "new boy" when he sits down at the cafeteria table. This is a type of pre-pubescent initiation into the established social order of the 6th grade class by the "head boy". How your boy reacts to this action will, conversely establish HIS position in the social order.

 

Possible reactions:

 

"Hey dude/man/Joe - what's up? Can you believe what's passing for lunch today?" Snort, chuckle

 

"Ow - you have a mean punch - are you in Akido? I've always thought martial arts were cool."

 

 

Actual reaction:

 

"Jerk".

 

 

What is heard:

 

"I am superior to you, you lowlife public school snot, and you dare not touch me."

 

Response:

 

A bloody nose

 

Reaction:

 

Running to the nurse. Which is perceived by every other 6th grade boy as "running to mommy".

 

 

We can't just "put our kids in public school" without also teaching them about things like social pecking orders. Additionally, it is a basic fact (and we've gone over it on this board) that everyone from the administration down to the teachers has had a poorly educated home "schooled" child dumped on them at some point or another and therefore has a bad taste in their mouth whenever a new one shows up after several years out of the system (and no, it does not matter if this one, your kid, happens to be a great kid - the bad taste is already established).

 

So what happens? The HS kid is labeled a snobby instigator, and the other kid is left alone. Why? Because the other kid wasn't doing anything unusual for the social order that exists, and your kid was. Your kid was essentially correcting the teacher.

 

It isn't right, it isn't fair, it isn't many things. But it is real life. I didn't want my kid in middle school - I knew what a nightmare it was. But he will have to go out into the real world where people will slug him (physically or metaphorically), and he has to know that answering with "jerk" will only get him in more trouble. He has to know how to navigate based on the situation he is in, not based on the situation in which he was raised. I'm NOT saying you raised your kid to respond with "jerk" - I'm saying that it does not appear he knew how to assess the situation he found himself in. I know for fact that my son would not have been able to have done so at that age, which is part of why he did not go to PS. He is just now learning, at 16.

 

Good luck, mom.

 

 

a

 

I agree with Asta. You're having a Mom and Dad response. It's not necessarily the "right" reponse for a 12 yo boy. If he's going to continue on in middle school, he'll need to learn how to navigate the actual social atmosphere of his environment, not the social environment you wish it were. Yes, you can positively interact with the school to try to improve the atmosphere, but don't really count on changing it.

 

I'd call up the school and set up an appointment to try to understand what really happened here. I wouldn't necessary be confrontational about taking your son's side. Get to know your son's principle and teachers let them know you're involved and paying attention. Also that you and your ds want to be team players. You might find that they'll take a more positive and active interest in him. Question them and hold them accountable for what's going on, but also be friendly and cooperative. They'll respect you and will be more likely to actually help your ds navigate the social situation better.

[jujsky]

Your anger is totally justified! There was absolutely no reason to give your son a detention (especially for a WEEK!!!!!) over calling someone who hit him a jerk. The kid IS a jerk! The attack was unprovoked. Yes, by all means have DH talk to the school and pull your son if you don't get any results.

 

Jr. High will be worse then elementary school in terms of bullying any day of the week.

[Remudamom]

My reaction would be to go in and inform the principal that since not punching back got son in trouble that we were now going to teach him how to use a vicious left hook for future reference. And as soon as son had a chance to flatten the bully's nose I'd let him decide if he wanted to stay or pull out and get some work done.

 

Yes, yes, I know, it's not a Christian reponse, but it's my first reaction. Sorry. I wouldn't have had a problem with my kid hauling off and punching the little bastard back right on the kisser.

[TXMary2]

My reaction would be to go in and inform the principal that since not punching back got son in trouble that we were now going to teach him how to use a vicious left hook for future reference. And as soon as son had a chance to flatten the bully's nose I'd let him decide if he wanted to stay or pull out and get some work done.

 

Yes, yes, I know, it's not a Christian reponse, but it's my first reaction. Sorry. I wouldn't have had a problem with my kid hauling off and punching the little bastard back right on the kisser.

 

Ditto. My boys knows that if someone assaults them that they have every right to defend themselves. I would also be a night mare for school administrators who no longer have any common sense.

[lauranc]

I'm going to also agree with what Asta said. My mom has been teaching middle school for many years now, and there's no end to the complaints she hears from other teachers about formerly homeschooled kids. As the grandmother to 3 always-homeschooled grandkids, she is quick to 'defend' homeschooling as an option-- a good option in many cases. However there are definitely many teachers she knows who still have a 'bad taste in their mouths' with regards to homeschooled kids. (don't know if this is what is going on with your son or not... just speaking from my own experience)

 

It's middle school. It's not a walk in the park. When you send your kid to school you are handing over his education to someone else, and you're entrusting the teachers/administrators to keep some order in classrooms, lunchrooms, gyms etc. They are in charge of your kid while he's with them.They make the rules, and the kids have to follow them.

 

Perhaps there is a 'no name calling' rule that he broke? If it were my son, I'd want to sit down with him and make sure we're all on the same page regarding what rules he needs to follow while at school. Then I'd expect that he follows them.

 

Laura

[Jenny Piaaree]

Yes, yes, I know, it's not a Christian reponse, but it's my first reaction. Sorry. I wouldn't have had a problem with my kid hauling off and punching the little bastard back right on the kisser.

 

Yeah, but that's the whole problem, isn't it? This other kid felt the same way: no compunction about hauling off and punching someone in the kisser whom he felt (no matter how stupidly) was offending him. I don't see how this mindset will help any situation.

[Gretchen in NJ]

Nathan is 12 and right now is attending public middle school. He is in the 6th grade. Friday at lunch he sat down by and kid and with no provocation (and I have investigated this) the kid punched him in the arm. Nathan called the kid a "jerk" and then the kid punched Nathan in the nose causing his nose to bleed. Nathan went to the nurse's office but told no one what happened. He didn't want to make the kid any angrier or make a big deal out of it. Anyway, another kid told a teacher and soon the principal called Nathan and the kid in his office.

 

The kid is suspended for one day for punching Nathan in the nose. Nathan got detention for calling him a jerk after he hit him the first time. I learned all about this after Nathan got off the bus on Friday. I got no call from the school about any of it!!

 

Am I over-reacting if I say that I don't think it is right for them to give Nathan detention over calling the kid a jerk? He could have called him worse or hit the kid, but he didn't. I am also so livid over the fact that I wasn't called immediately when they found out about this or told that my son was being interviewed by the principal. My husband says there is no way he is serving this detention and if he has to he will stay home Monday morning and go to the school himself and tell them that. If they push the issue he asked me if I had a problem with pulling him out of school right then? I said, "no."

 

Nathan had tried grade school one year and had been bullied then, so he came back home. This year he begged to go to middle school thinking it would be different and it's been worse. He says he doesn't care if he stays in school or not and now he is scared to go back fearing the kid will be even more mad since he got detention.

 

This is one of the reasons I homeschool.

[Mosaicmind]

Let's just say that I have kids in public school and home schooled. We have had some other times of trouble with our schools here and I would probably say it's because we have home schooled our kids. The last year Nathan was in school, which was 4th grade, he was told that unless a teacher saw the kid bullying him there was nothing they could do. So, Nathan went to school terrified because he was unprotected.

 

Yes, we have a policy of punishing all involved no matter "how" involved they were. So, essentially even if Nathan had walked away, which he could not do because they are not allowed out of their seats at lunch for NO reason, he still would have been punished because there was an altercation.

 

My dh believes that he should have hauled off and hit him. I, on the other hand, think that calling him a jerk was appropriate and based on this kid's reputation he would have hit him again whether Nathan said anything or nothing at all.

 

Yes, we need to respect authority, but not when the authority excludes the parents from knowing what went on and then dishing out discipline. I am probably more mad about the fact that my son had a bloody nose from being hit, was called into the principal's office for what happened, and then sent home with the knowledge that he has detention "sometime" next week; and they did all of this without calling me at all.

 

I guess this just cements my feelings that this year for him has been another waste. I wanted to give it a try because he wanted to try out middle school, but we have both seen what it's like once again when you go to an over crowed school, with over worked teachers, and an administration that does not care that parents are involved at all and would much rather you stay out of it.

[DarlaS]

What does detention entail?

 

And, when I was a kid, the fastest way to be accepted was to get into trouble. I was a complete, quiet nobody until I was picked up by the police for skipping school (first time, I was a real amateur). Reaction at school: "wow, you were always such a goody-two-shoes we thought you were a nark" and I had, well, not friends, but at least people who would talk to me after that. I didn't plan it that way, but it worked. Everyone loosened up around me.

 

Getting a bloody nose and getting detention might make his school life easier. Possibly. Just a thought.

 

Interesting. That was my experience with detention too. Almost identical in every way. The cool girl I ended up sitting next to even gave me some candy. :D

 

ETA: This was high school--and they DID call my parents. If I were the parent of a 6th grader, I'd be livid they didn't call.

[beachrose]

My husband was given a week's suspension when a boy sucker punched him. He hadn't even had any contact with boy it came out of no where. The school's policy was to suspend anyone caught fighting so even though he hadn't done a thing he spent a week at home.

It's been almost 30 years since then and you know it's not that big of a deal. Now he has story that he likes to tell about how life just isnt' fair sometimes. I wouldn't sweat it. Schools have a tough job and it's only getting worse. It's really hard to tell who did what in these types of situations.

[RanchGirl]

Does your child play sports? I would say it's similar to a ref calling a foul on a kid and the kid thinks he didn't do it. Once the penalty is called, it doesn't matter what really happened (there is no instant replay or challenging the call in youth sports), the player must gracefully accept the consequences and get back to business without throwing a hissy fit (or having parents throw a hissy fit). That's what we teach our boys. My child would do the detention.

 

I would absolutely teach him to defend himself, because public schools are a zoo and defending himself properly would get him the same detention anyway -- plus a lot more respect from the bully and therefore fewer future problems -- compared to name calling. And as he said, he is now (more?) afraid of this bully.

 

I would certainly ask the school to inform me if my child is injured in the future. But really, you can't demand much when you're handing your child over to an institution, they make the rules. If they don't have a rule written down about contacting parents when a child is injured or punished for a fight, you don't have much ground to stand on there.

 

If you are going to take him out of school to homeschool, that's great, but I wouldn't do it over this. What if he had to go back next year for some reason and face the administrators and bullies again as the kid whose mom took him home rather than have him serve detention? Even if he didn't have to go back and face others who thought that, he might look back and think it himself. Better to man up and take the punishment in my humble opinion.

[Aubrey]

Does your child play sports? I would say it's similar to a ref calling a foul on a kid and the kid thinks he didn't do it. Once the penalty is called, it doesn't matter what really happened (there is no instant replay or challenging the call in youth sports), the player must gracefully accept the consequences and get back to business without throwing a hissy fit (or having parents throw a hissy fit). That's what we teach our boys. My child would do the detention.

 

This is comparing apples to oranges. First, a penalty in sports is not physical assault in life. Second, sports are a choice. Third, injustice--or lack of ability to rightly measure justice--in one area does not justify an equal lack of justice in another area.

 

I would absolutely teach him to defend himself, because public schools are a zoo and defending himself properly would get him the same detention anyway -- plus a lot more respect from the bully and therefore fewer future problems -- compared to name calling. And as he said, he is now (more?) afraid of this bully.

 

You know, I agree w/ you, but don't you see the problem w/ this line of thinking--the system is set up in a way that *more* violence is basically free to the victim. There is no. reason. to just walk away. In fact, there's really no reason not to go around punching anybody you please. Yeah, you'll get suspended or detention or something, but odds are, you're going to get that if you don't. Might as well have the satisfaction of the first punch.

 

I would certainly ask the school to inform me if my child is injured in the future. But really, you can't demand much when you're handing your child over to an institution, they make the rules. If they don't have a rule written down about contacting parents when a child is injured or punished for a fight, you don't have much ground to stand on there.

 

Absolutely not. If there's no written rule requiring parental contact, they contact you anyway by your request or they write the rule. Surrendering your rights simply because no one has previously secured them makes no sense.

 

Schools may not always like parents or parental involvement, but it's a FACT of the institution. Parents are the clients, not kids. Admins, at the very least, are scared of parents, & lack of contact is unacceptable. I worked in a very overcrowded school district, & this was rule number one, no matter what. No. matter. what.

 

If you are going to take him out of school to homeschool, that's great, but I wouldn't do it over this. What if he had to go back next year for some reason and face the administrators and bullies again as the kid whose mom took him home rather than have him serve detention? Even if he didn't have to go back and face others who thought that, he might look back and think it himself. Better to man up and take the punishment in my humble opinion.

 

This particular situation makes me livid personally, but there have been a lot of good suggestions about how to handle it. I can't speak to hs vs. not because I don't completely understand the reason for putting him in in the first place, & I do see that despite the injustice of the situation, it might be better to just deal w/ it. I'm not good at taking the just-deal-w/-it rte, but I can at least recognize that there are times that more successful people (than me) do choose to go that way.

 

To me, this whole issue is one of the problems w/ being a kid. I think seeing a parent stick up for you teaches you when & how to stick up for yourself.

 

Irl, we don't get to punch people. Cut people off in traffic? Yep. But not assault of any level. You know, unless you're part of a sub-class of people. The poor, maybe. Illegal immigrants, maybe. A kid.

 

But if you learn early on that the system is against you, that you'll be punished if anyone finds out that you were hurt or attacked, you learn to keep your head down & be afraid. Or you learn to be violent, because the strong/rich/grownups rule the weak/poor/kids.

[mom2denj]

Middle Schools are hell holes. Sorry your son got hit and unjustly punished.

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

[5forMe]

This won't help your situation but our problem with our middle school is the opposite. Kids are beating each other up daily in the hallway and bathrooms and no one gets suspended. This is the result of our superintendents "lowering the suspension rate" intiative. Basically they don't suspend anyone for anything so that the superintendent can report that her suspension rates have dropped.

 

:blink:

[FO4UR]

I'm pretty much baffled about what the admin would recommend a child to do in that situation. It seems there was no alternative, but something that earned a detention. Be silent - get a detention. Walk away - get a detention. Call the kid a jerk - get a detention. Punch back - get a detention.

 

I'd be highly tempted to have ds write up a letter to the admin ASKING them just what was expected of a child when he is punched at a lunch table where he is *required* to sit. I'd take him to the office and make sure that the admin gave my ds the respect of listening to him.

 

I would start the letter acknowledging the authority of the school admin, and then pointing out that with that authority comes the responsibility of making sure that their rules are reasonable and keep kids safe. End the letter with something he likes about the school.

 

I think this would be more effective coming, *respectfully*, from the child. The bully here isn't the kid who punched your ds - it's a failing system.:glare:

[Pippen]

This is all not making me want to send my kid to middle school EVER. How horrible. ".

 

It's not due to being in middle school, it's all boils down to how the building principal handles discipline. I had a friend whose child was bullied through much of elementary school and the principal failed to deal with it effectively. The first time it happened at the middle school (same bully) was the only time.

[LibrarianMom]

The schools in our area have a "it takes 2" attitude. They suspend both (or all) kids involved in a situation. No matter who did or said what.

 

Sounds just like what I do at home when the kids get in a fight--they both get sent to their room.

[HeatherInWI]

I taught middle school/junior high before becoming a homeschool mom, and, granted, I resigned in the mid-1990s, but in our school the nose puncher would have been suspended. A light punch to the shoulder -- o.k., boy stuff. Calling someone who did that a jerk -- again, boy stuff -- it's not as if he was using obsecenities. But punching someone in the nose -- assault.

 

And, btw, the only homeschooler that I had who came into public school in middle school did beautifully and was beloved by everyone -- but she was a girl and very emotionally mature (in a good way). Any child who is socially or emotionally immature and gets thrown into the shark pool of a middle school is likely to be eaten alive. It happens to those who've been in public school, private school, or homeschool, just based on personality, but the NEA supporter teachers like to use any weakness against former homeschoolers. (Sad, but true -- I was the non anti-homeschooling teacher on our faculty.)

[Guest mrs. logic]

Unpopular response here.

 

This is, I'm sorry to say, middle school. It might as well be re-named Middle "Lord of the Flies" School.

I LOVE it!

[Carol in Cal.]

Maybe I have been lucky in life, but I never came across these scenarios in my adult life, only while in school. School was like no other experience in my life thus far. It prepared me for nothing except perhaps to make me bitter, skeptical, and completely disenchanted with the "system".

 

I think guys continue to one up each other, and that they completely see why Friar Tuck and Robin Hood ended up such good friends after whaling on each other with staves for a while. These scenerios are incomprehensible to me, but enough guys think that they are reasonable that I think that the advice about how to 'take' this is spot on for boys.

[MBM]

The last year Nathan was in school, which was 4th grade, he was told that unless a teacher saw the kid bullying him there was nothing they could do. So, Nathan went to school terrified because he was unprotected.

 

What nonsense. While at school, at least one adult is supposed to make sure the students are supervised. Who was supervising your son and the other boy? I would want the school to explain that to me.

 

Further, if your son were seriously harmed by another student, would the school claim no one was at fault because someone didn't witness it? That would not fly.

My dh believes that he should have hauled off and hit him. I, on the other hand, think that calling him a jerk was appropriate and based on this kid's reputation he would have hit him again whether Nathan said anything or nothing at all.

 

I would encourage your son to say loudly and assertively, "Please do not hit me!" Make sure a teacher is aware. At that point, the school is sufficiently informed that something likely has transpired between two students.

Yes, we need to respect authority, but not when the authority excludes the parents from knowing what went on and then dishing out discipline. I am probably more mad about the fact that my son had a bloody nose from being hit, was called into the principal's office for what happened, and then sent home with the knowledge that he has detention "sometime" next week; and they did all of this without calling me at all.

 

Arrange a meeting with the principal and teacher or other authorities. Be calm and respond with the intent of finding out more information. Specifically, I would mention your son came home with a bloody nose which is bad enough, if you ask me. What if something worse had happened? Where was an overseeing adult?

[Pamela H in Texas]

I agree with another poster that said your son did something inappropriate so was disciplined for it and just needs to deal. *I* may not agree with a detention for what he did, but it isn't like he made an appropriate choice. Had he made a good choice (gotten in trouble for moving away or saying, "You may NOT hit me!"), it'd be different. When you send your kid to school, you subject him to the rules and discipline there. And they don't have time to call Mommy every time Darling gets in trouble. Mommy will find out when Darling gets home and tells her. It's Jr high, not Kindergarten.

 

Basically, I disagree with the punishment (of course, I don't believe in most punishment anyway); but I think he just serves it and hopefully SOMEONE (principal, you, etc) DISCIPLINED (taught/guided) so he could do better next time.

[Mosaicmind]

I think our kids get a standard that wouldn't hold up under laws outside of the school. When a criminal gets into trouble he is not allowed to be questioned without a lawyer, Geesh he even gets one phone call. Yet, when these boys were talked to neither parent was called to be involved in the process. I DO NOT expect the school to call me for everytime he gets into trouble, but if it is a punch to the nose that causes bleeding and this caused the detention, then yes they **** well better call me and not let me sit a whole weekend wondering what the heck happened. If they want me to treat them with respect then they better do the same for me.

 

Nathan could have walked away, turned the other cheek, but then as some of you say middle school is a hell hole. Would have walking away precipitated more bullying? I know the social aspect of school, he is very popular at school and fits in very well. He knows how to navigate the social aspects at school, so that imo is a mute point.

 

I see that this has caused much discussion and I like that, but I don't want to pit us against each other. What is good for one is not good for another. All situations are different and kids are different. I know the principal and the teacher's very well. One of our other sons was suspended last year for 3 days and we went to bat for him with no success at all. That's another story that I won't get into here, but it did not involve anything physically.

 

I have thought this year about pulling him out because of other things, so pulling him out now would not be because of this one incident. There are many things we have not been happy with and honestly I don't see wasting more of the year.

[tex-mex]

Well, my answer is probably going to be very unpopular. Please use your words only and don't beat me up! :001_smile: But, seriously, call in an attorney for a detention, no matter how undeserved?

 

If it were my son, I would commend him for not hitting the other boy back and express empathy that he was not the aggravator. But I would let him serve the detention for a couple of reasons. 1) It's not the end of the world. 2) Whereas the other boy most decidedly acted like a jerk or worse, the better reaction would have been not to have called him that. After all, I don't think "using your words" was ever intended to mean name-calling. So to the extent that calling the boy a jerk escalated the situation instead of diffusing it, it was not the best choice. (I totally understand that the boy was being a jerk, that your son could have called him much worse, and that punching your son in the nose was a completely unpredicted overreaction. I will also mention that my son was involved in a similar incident and didn't do as well as yours did! :tongue_smilie:) Was it bad enough to earn a detention? I would say probably not, but the school as the authority in charge felt it was, and maybe it's a gray area open to subjective opinion; so with such a little to lose, why not uphold their authority? Respect for authority is a valuable, though increasingly rare, quality. I would definitely encourage it and model it.

 

I would also use it as an opportunity to point out to my son that returning evil with even just a little, tiny evil can sometimes produce very bad results. Even when we are not the instigators, our reactions to situations contribute to their outcome, and we are responsible for our choices. After all, in a few years from now when your son is driving on the freeway and someone purposely cuts him off, do you want him to call that guy a jerk, when the "jerk" might be crazy enough to pull a gun or try to run him off the road?

 

That said, I would speak to the prinicipal to make sure he (and I) fully understands the situation; I would also seek his assurance and perhaps some particulars about how he proposes to protect my son against further bullying. Because whereas unjust detention may be tolerable, bullying is not.

 

OK, you can all attack now. ;)

:iagree:

[tex-mex]

I agree with another poster that said your son did something inappropriate so was disciplined for it and just needs to deal. *I* may not agree with a detention for what he did, but it isn't like he made an appropriate choice. Had he made a good choice (gotten in trouble for moving away or saying, "You may NOT hit me!"), it'd be different. When you send your kid to school, you subject him to the rules and discipline there. And they don't have time to call Mommy every time Darling gets in trouble. Mommy will find out when Darling gets home and tells her. It's Jr high, not Kindergarten.

 

Basically, I disagree with the punishment (of course, I don't believe in most punishment anyway); but I think he just serves it and hopefully SOMEONE (principal, you, etc) DISCIPLINED (taught/guided) so he could do better next time.

 

I agree -- life just sucks sometimes. Nothing is fair. But it is a good life lesson for your son to use and look back on as he gets older. I'll bet he won't punish someone harshly when he is an adult. The bully issue does concern me -- but not sure if you intervening will make things worse for your son, kwim? :confused:

[Sputterduck]

This is all not making me want to send my kid to middle school EVER. How horrible. And while I understand the various responses and can understand the POVs it's rather disturbing when you step back and take it all in. I've heard anything from "teach him to fight back", "schools don't give a hoot", "this is normal and the sooner you figure this out the better" to "what are you whining about this is life". Whoa.

 

Maybe I have been lucky in life, but I never came across these scenarios in my adult life, only while in school. School was like no other experience in my life thus far. It prepared me for nothing except perhaps to make me bitter, skeptical, and completely disenchanted with the "system".

 

 

I could not agree more.

[Audrey]

Nathan is 12 and right now is attending public middle school. He is in the 6th grade. Friday at lunch he sat down by and kid and with no provocation (and I have investigated this) the kid punched him in the arm. Nathan called the kid a "jerk" and then the kid punched Nathan in the nose causing his nose to bleed. Nathan went to the nurse's office but told no one what happened. He didn't want to make the kid any angrier or make a big deal out of it. Anyway, another kid told a teacher and soon the principal called Nathan and the kid in his office.

 

The kid is suspended for one day for punching Nathan in the nose. Nathan got detention for calling him a jerk after he hit him the first time. I learned all about this after Nathan got off the bus on Friday. I got no call from the school about any of it!!

 

Am I over-reacting if I say that I don't think it is right for them to give Nathan detention over calling the kid a jerk? He could have called him worse or hit the kid, but he didn't. I am also so livid over the fact that I wasn't called immediately when they found out about this or told that my son was being interviewed by the principal. My husband says there is no way he is serving this detention and if he has to he will stay home Monday morning and go to the school himself and tell them that. If they push the issue he asked me if I had a problem with pulling him out of school right then? I said, "no."

 

Nathan had tried grade school one year and had been bullied then, so he came back home. This year he begged to go to middle school thinking it would be different and it's been worse. He says he doesn't care if he stays in school or not and now he is scared to go back fearing the kid will be even more mad since he got detention.

 

 

I had a couple of situations like this when I was in school. My mom simply told them, "oh, she won't be attending your detention. My authority trumps yours."

 

I didn't go to the detention and nothing ever happened to me because of it. My mother was certainly a force to be reckoned with, and she tolerated NO fools. :D

[Audrey]

I absolutely disagree, Asta. School is not the real world. It is a purely artificial construct. One does not need to learn to negotiate with bullies in the real world. In the real world, if you hit me, I need know no more than how to dial the constabulary to come and deal with you. When adults fight, it is a criminal act, dealt with by proper authorities.

 

In school (not the real world) children are not afforded the real world solution of complaining to the authorities. School administrators are not authorities. They are no more than simple child-minders, whose "authority" consists of little more than the equivalent of a toddler's time-out or lecture. They are a joke, a sham, AND a shame. No child should ever have to "learn to deal" with criminality upon their person. In the real world, that simply is not tolerated. Why should it be whitewashed in public schools?

[Pamela H in Texas]

Lisa,

 

BTW, I do agree that you should have gotten a phone call about the bloody nose. THAT is a lot different. Getting a phone call because your son messed up and got a detention would be a ridiculous reason for them to call (and they'd be calling parents all day); but the nurse should have called you about the nose.