Putting our children into public school so they learn bully-coping skills?

[Daisy]

I enjoyed this blog post by Smrt Mama.

 

Today’s “Ask a [smrt] Homeschooler†is less of a question, and more of a request.

 

Marci writes, “I want you to do a post on how you possibly think your child will be able to handle hard situations if they aren’t exposed to them in public school at a very young age. You know the whole comment about, ‘they’re going to have to deal with moronic/mean/belittling…people someday so they might as well learn now.’â€

 

Go read the rest and tell me what you think. Do you think the original question has any merit?

[IsabelC]

Smrt Mama is right on the money, as usual.

 

As for the question, I'm not sure that is has any merit, but it's certainly an idea that comes up fairly regularly when home education is under discussion, so it might be useful for those of us who do engage in these conversations to have a considered answer ready. I tend to - mentally, at least - resort to the harsher, more sarcastic comebacks (eg, "So, are you going to poison you children in order that they can practice for the sickness they will inevitably experience later on? Or would it be more efficient to kill them, since they are going to die one day and they might as well get used to it now?!") so it would probably be good to have something sensible to say when required.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

Adults don't have to put up with that garbage.

 

When an adult chooses to work for a jerky boss, or chooses to enter the military knowing that he will be submitting to authority, or chooses to stay with a bullying spouse, he is choosing. He has evaluated the pros and cons of the situation and tolerates the bully for a greater purpose. The staying or going is within his own control. He is the master of his ship.

 

The child doesn't choose anything. He doesn't choose that school! He doesn't choose those courses, or those companions, or those teachers, or anything.

 

He only endures, while those who have chosen the life for him insist that it is for his own good.

 

No, bullying and inescapable bad relationships do not train a child for adult life.

 

They only train him for public school life.

 

And I, personally, see no value in that.

[Whereneverever]

I think it's pretty well reasoned. I really dislike it when people try to put kids into situations for character building that they would never consider sticking themselves into.

[Cammie]

I am thinking of going from afterschooling to full time homeschooling in part to avoid the drama of mean girls and social idiocy!

 

Does anyone as an adult really come up against the kind of meanness and nastiness that young children are capable of? I remember junior high. There is nothing in the rest of my life that has ever equalled the negativity and humiliation I remember from that time. So I don't think it "prepares" you for anything. It is more like hazing. Those people who participate in hazing often see it as something they had to go through and therefore others should suffer the same fate. Hazing doesn't prepare you for anything - it just is a horrible experience you have to go through at some point.

 

I don't believe any of that social ugliness is necessary to live through in order to be prepared for more social ugliness in the future. A better preparation would be a life surrounded by love and kindness so that a child has the necessary self confidence to appropriately address any nasty people they might meet in the future.

[KidsHappen]

My stock answer is they have seven siblings each. They learn coping skills and even better, they learn how to get along. :tongue_smilie:

[littlebug42]

Never in college or my adult life have I had to endure the kind of bullying/teasing as I did when I was in school. I was from a lower income family, wore glasses and was a target for much of my elementary years and pretty much all of my tormentors were other girls. My children should be able to be children and I am very happy that I can help them avoid that crap because they do not endure it with the groups of kids they spend time with. My eldest is particularly sensitive and ps would crush her. As long as I have a choice, I will not do that to them. My youngest was born with a clubfoot and still has some residual issues with the way her foot looks and some residual turning in. My decision to homeschool was primarily made for her because my heart broke at the thought of other children belittling her because of that. I acutely felt how differences could make you a target and I refuse to do that to my kids and I know they are better off for it.

[Daisy]

Well, I completely agree with you, ladies.

 

Part of the reason we took our six year old out of first grade ps was because she was being shunned by cliquish first grade girls. Unbelievable how early that behavior starts.

 

I do know parents though who truly believe that sending their children into bullying situations can be a positive thing. For example, the child who hasn't learned to honor personal space and annoys other people might learn some restraint if subjected to the same annoyances by a bully? Even some ps teachers believe this and will allow a child to be subjected to such behavior in the hope the kid "learns his lesson."

[smrtmama]

I have an otherwise sensible friend whose public-schooled autistic son is being teased horribly now that he's in 5th grade. He hates going to school, has regressed to many of the behaviors that he had stopped, and is enrolled in therapy -- she won't pull him out of school because she is afraid it will teach him to run away from his problems. I have tried to explain to her why I don't think that's the case AND that there are some phenomenal resources out there for 2E kids like her son (he's both highly gifted and autistic). No luck so far. :(

[Whereneverever]

Well, I completely agree with you, ladies.

 

Part of the reason we took our six year old out of first grade ps was because she was being shunned by cliquish first grade girls. Unbelievable how early that behavior starts.

 

I do know parents though who truly believe that sending their children into bullying situations can be a positive thing. For example, the child who hasn't learned to honor personal space and annoys other people might learn some restraint if subjected to the same annoyances by a bully? Even some ps teachers believe this and will allow a child to be subjected to such behavior in the hope the kid "learns his lesson."

 

I personally find that line of thought really sad. Isn't there a gentler way to teach a child boundaries then by having them be repeatedly disrespected?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Adults don't have to put up with that garbage.

 

When an adult chooses to work for a jerky boss, or chooses to enter the military knowing that he will be submitting to authority, or chooses to stay with a bullying spouse, he is choosing. He has evaluated the pros and cons of the situation and tolerates the bully for a greater purpose. The staying or going is within his own control. He is the master of his ship.

 

The child doesn't choose anything. He doesn't choose that school! He doesn't choose those courses, or those companions, or those teachers, or anything.

 

He only endures, while those who have chosen the life for him insist that it is for his own good.

 

No, bullying and inescapable bad relationships do not train a child for adult life.

 

They only train him for public school life.

 

And I, personally, see no value in that.

 

I agree wholeheartedly.

[Whereneverever]

I have an otherwise sensible friend whose public-schooled autistic son is being teased horribly now that he's in 5th grade. He hates going to school, has regressed to many of the behaviors that he had stopped, and is enrolled in therapy -- she won't pull him out of school because she is afraid it will teach him to run away from his problems. I have tried to explain to her why I don't think that's the case AND that there are some phenomenal resources out there for 2E kids like her son (he's both highly gifted and autistic). No luck so far. :(

 

That's so sad, mama. :(

[Joanne]

Learning how, when and to what degree to engage in relationship with a difficult person is a mature, sophisticated skill. It doesn't come during the minor years.

 

Deliberately putting a child in a situation to experience unkindness, disrespect, bullying is cruel and stupid. It's like blanket training babies.

Children learn boundaries, healthy engagement and conflict solving by watching us and through supervised and coached experience.

 

The other factor often overlooked by "dump em and let em learn" advocates is that undersupervised childlren are quickly very cruel to each other and that adults with boundary issues have an immediate power advantage over children.

 

I may be stronger for having experienced childhood bullying that was under responded to, but that doesn't make it right or better.

[Xuzi]

This is a HUGE reason why we decided to homeschool.

 

Does a 5 year old really need to spend 40 hours a week being bullied so they can learn these "skills"?? Honestly, I think the best anti-bullying "skill" is a POSITIVE SELF-IMAGE!! Let a child gain the confidence in *themselves* that they're worthwhile and loveable, no matter what anybody else might say, and they'll be able to withstand bullies.

 

I didn't learn any valubale skills from being bullied. I "survived" grade school, is basically what I did. It took me years to break from the mold I was forced into and figure out who I *really* was, and not who all the bullies said I was.

[smrtmama]

Joanne, you raise excellent points, as always. Classrooms devolve into that Lord of the Flies dynamic far too easily.

[Daisy]

My husband can't understand how school bullying could ever be justified as socially beneficial and yet it is almost impossible to prevent.

 

900 students and 40 teachers. Stuff is going to happen.

 

A lot of it is psychological also. He can stop the physical stuff when he sees it but the other is a lot harder to control especially when some of these kids are masters of bullying by the rules.

 

Those kids are establishing a pecking order from day 1.

[smrtmama]

My husband can't understand how school bullying could ever be justified as socially beneficial and yet it is almost impossible to prevent.

 

900 students and 40 teachers. Stuff is going to happen.

 

A lot of it is psychological also. He can stop the physical stuff when he sees it but the other is a lot harder to control especially when some of these kids are masters of bullying by the rules.

 

Those kids are establishing a pecking order from day 1.

 

Of course, it's not just public school. The worst bullying my oldest ever dealt with was in a Montessori class of something like 9 kids. The teacher's daughter was in the class. She and the daughter of another teacher tormented him so badly all year that he'd come home every day and cry. I admit to initially falling prey to the mentality of "But if I pull him from the school, he'll never learn to work through his own problems." Then I realized that he was 6, and it wasn't his problem to solve, but mine. Pulled him and put him in public school (where we had the bullying from the TEACHER instead, hence the switch to HS, where we happily remain).

[LibraryLover]

I know! It's sad. It's everywhere!

 

Of course, it's not just public school. The worst bullying my oldest ever dealt with was in a Montessori class of something like 9 kids. The teacher's daughter was in the class. She and the daughter of another teacher tormented him so badly all year that he'd come home every day and cry. I admit to initially falling prey to the mentality of "But if I pull him from the school, he'll never learn to work through his own problems." Then I realized that he was 6, and it wasn't his problem to solve, but mine. Pulled him and put him in public school (where we had the bullying from the TEACHER instead, hence the switch to HS, where we happily remain).

[jujsky]

That was by far the BEST response I have ever heard to the "real world" question!

[Carol in Cal.]

If the best argument someone can come up with for brick and mortar schools is that they teach kids to deal with bullies, that is pretty pathetic.

[cara]

Thank you for posting that. You've given me an even better way to answer the question. We pulled DS from PS because of bullying. Not just any type of bullying but something that could kill him. He had a child that would taunt him with peanut butter daily, he's deathly allergic to peanuts and the teacher brushed him off. In fact the teacher told another child that DS's allergy was FAKE and MADE UP.

 

When we pulled him I was told by DH's family that I was wrong because "bullying breeds character". I wonder if they would feel that way if DS had ended up in the ER or worse the morgue due to his bully.

[Peela]

Homeschooled kids usually still have plenty of interaction with other people, and theyre not all going to be nice people. My two are very involved in many activities which have them rubbing with all sorts of people. I think that is one of the unfortunate presumptions of people who aren't familiar with homeschoolers- that the kids dont ever get to deal with bullies. I have seen bullying in homeschool groups- by the parents too, no less. They also get to deal with peer group pressure. Thats the problem with the term homeschooling. I am sure many homeschoolers do spend a lot of time at home...but I think most of us spend a fair amount of time socialising as well. We are not over protectice. We are supporting our kids to learn how to handle difficult situations, rather than handing them over to the cattle yards of schools.

 

ETA And the truth is, how many kids does homeschooling save from turning INTO bullies. We all like to think our angel wouldnt, but for every bullee, there is a bully. By homechooling we are helping both sides of the coin have a healthier start.

[IsabelC]

Thats the problem with the term homeschooling. I am sure many homeschoolers do spend a lot of time at home...

My latest effort at a better term is non institutionalized education. Of course, it still has the problem of being a negative definition, but it's a little bit more accurate.

 

If the best argument someone can come up with for brick and mortar schools is that they teach kids to deal with bullies, that is pretty pathetic.

Pathetic indeed!

 

When we pulled him I was told by DH's family that I was wrong because "bullying breeds character". I wonder if they would feel that way if DS had ended up in the ER or worse the morgue due to his bully.

They probably would have blamed you for not acting sooner!

 

 

My question to anybody who takes that attitude would be this: if your child just happens to be Mr/Ms Popular who is always loved, respected and supported by all his/her peers and teachers, would you be out hiring a few local thugs to verbally and perhaps physically abuse him/her, in order to make good this gaping educational deficit?

[Pamela H in Texas]

I don't think putting kids in situations to deal with it as young children even works, but it's also nowhere close to real life for the most part either.

 

First, I taught a high school peer mediation class (one period; the rest were English III) yesterday. There was one 10th grader and the rest were 11th and 12th graders. One of the complaints that came up was a girl who was behaving awfully towards everyone. She was a liar and snotty and bullying. Some of the girls had found some ways of coping; others hadn't. The only good thing they had was comraderie (btw, they didn't ever name the girl and tried to keep it general so it wasn't just gossiping, but....). And their topic for the class assignment was how peer mediation could curtail bullying. Most gave a few pat answers, but one girl (a spirited senior) asked if she could provide a counter argument.

 

But really, IRL, we can have limited dealings with these people. We can be too busy to answer their phone calls. We can change our grocery shopping day. We can move or change jobs or even sue if things get bad enough.

 

Like the girls in that class, we usually blow the person's lies off or find another way to do something (walk down a different hall, bank somewhere else) to some degree but we don't HAVE to share a classroom, a schoolbus, etc.

 

I believe kids can get the basic idea of how to handle things simply by living in a family and in the real world. They don't need a hyperfocused environment to "get it."

 

And really, I think they probably get it better when they have time to develop good social skills within the family and community, a good sense of self, etc.

[Lizzie in Ma]

Adults don't have to put up with that garbage.

 

When an adult chooses to work for a jerky boss, or chooses to enter the military knowing that he will be submitting to authority, or chooses to stay with a bullying spouse, he is choosing. He has evaluated the pros and cons of the situation and tolerates the bully for a greater purpose. The staying or going is within his own control. He is the master of his ship.

 

The child doesn't choose anything. He doesn't choose that school! He doesn't choose those courses, or those companions, or those teachers, or anything.

 

He only endures, while those who have chosen the life for him insist that it is for his own good.

 

No, bullying and inescapable bad relationships do not train a child for adult life.

 

They only train him for public school life.

 

And I, personally, see no value in that.

 

:iagree::iagree:

[TravelingChris]

I was targeted by some kids because of my ethnicity and my glasses. My two who did wear glasses got some teasing because of that too. Because they were homeschooling, those limited interactions were just that, limited. They weren't daily and relentless. Everyone comes across mean people or people who aren't behaving well. My kids still talk about our visit to 6 Flags in Belgium when the crazy lady jumped out of the car and started banging on the window of another car. (We were in a long line of cars exiting the amusement park and she didn't like that). SO they will come across that. But it won't be a major issue in their lives the way it is if someone harasses them daily.

[Hikin' Mama]

great points, Smrtmama!

[PineFarmMom]

My own dd had some questions about homeschooling being best because of those issues. I remember her being in 5th grade in a church situation with some mean girls and dd was most upset that she didn't have a good response. She told me the main reason she wanted to go to ps was to learn to have a good response to bullies. We talked about it a lot. It was definitely a phase of her life where she felt a little more awkward. The cool thing is, though, that now at 14, she has a pretty good and positive ability to handle bully type situations for herself or others and is usually able to look beyond the surface behavior of the bully and see that they have other problems as well. There is a really mean boy in the youth group at church who gives everyone problems. She said, "His home life and school life are really hard, so we try to be kind to him through it." :001_smile:

 

She was counseling her younger ds last week on some responses to give to a girl who was being unkind in Sunday School. They were laughing about the whole thing. :)

[Jen+4dc]

Never in college or my adult life have I had to endure the kind of bullying/teasing as I did when I was in school. I was from a lower income family, wore glasses and was a target for much of my elementary years and pretty much all of my tormentors were other girls. My children should be able to be children and I am very happy that I can help them avoid that crap because they do not endure it with the groups of kids they spend time with. My eldest is particularly sensitive and ps would crush her. As long as I have a choice, I will not do that to them. My youngest was born with a clubfoot and still has some residual issues with the way her foot looks and some residual turning in. My decision to homeschool was primarily made for her because my heart broke at the thought of other children belittling her because of that. I acutely felt how differences could make you a target and I refuse to do that to my kids and I know they are better off for it.

 

I could have written that! The reason I'm homeschooling is because ps was crushing my oldest. The final straw was when the bus driver got off the bus one day and pulled me aside to tell me he couldn't get her off the bus in the mornings at school, she would go to the back and hide under the seats. I knew she was being bullied (we were working on coping strategies at home) from other kids and her teacher. But, I didn't realize it was that bad. No 4th grader should EVER have to endure that kind of emotional beating! I thanked the bus driver for telling me, went home and cried. Then I brought her home! I haven't looked back (well, okay, not seriously, at least, we do a a day every once in awhile;)). When we have one of those days I mention that I could send her back to ps and she shapes right up!:D

 

My question to anybody who takes that attitude would be this: if your child just happens to be Mr/Ms Popular who is always loved, respected and supported by all his/her peers and teachers, would you be out hiring a few local thugs to verbally and perhaps physically abuse him/her, in order to make good this gaping educational deficit?

 

I LOVE this!! I'm going to remember it the next time I get the "socialization" argument.

 

I have an otherwise sensible friend whose public-schooled autistic son is being teased horribly now that he's in 5th grade. He hates going to school, has regressed to many of the behaviors that he had stopped, and is enrolled in therapy -- she won't pull him out of school because she is afraid it will teach him to run away from his problems. I have tried to explain to her why I don't think that's the case AND that there are some phenomenal resources out there for 2E kids like her son (he's both highly gifted and autistic). No luck so far. :(

 

This is awful. I have a dear friend (my inspiration for hsing) whose oldest (of 4) and youngest are both autistic. She finally pulled the oldest out in 6th grade because bullying had gotten so bad he was literally getting beaten up every.single.day. They recently moved to Okinawa (military family) and the kids wanted to go back to ps. This kid is now in ps for his senior year (1st time since 6th grade) and played on the football team and has tons of friends and is doing great. Bringing him home allowed him time to mature and learn social skills. My friend is no longer worried about him leaving home and living on his own someday. She (and I) truly believe hsing saved this boy's life. Keep working on your friend!:grouphug:

Edited February 10, 2010 by Jen+4dc

[Scarlett]

ETA And the truth is, how many kids does homeschooling save from turning INTO bullies. We all like to think our angel wouldnt, but for every bullee, there is a bully. By homechooling we are helping both sides of the coin have a healthier start.

 

Excellent point Peela. Kids need more one on one character building than public school (or private for that matter) can provide EVEN IF the schools were attemping to build character.

 

I know ds9 needs to learn how to cope with a bully and mean spiritedness. I want to be there to guide it and step in when needed. Recently, a neighbor boy, also homeschooled, pointed at a possession of ds and laughed and made fun....ds was horrified--he ran away to the other room. I promptly stepped in and told the child (who is often at my house) to go home because he was being VERY rude and I didn't like it and would not tolerate it. 5 minutes later my phone rang...it was neighbor boy's mother telling me her child was outside my door waiting to apologize to son. I opened the door and a very contrite child was standing there. He had gone home and told on himself to his mother. And he apologized to my son.

 

Now if that same situation had happened at school would it have ended that way? I doubt it. Ds would have had to endure it and he couldn't have left the room and certainly both mother's wouldn't have been there to help in character building.

 

Yeah....think I will keep homeschooling.

[4kids4me]

My latest effort at a better term is non institutionalized education.

 

I LOLd at this comment. It seems to me that there's a stigma of being homeschooled. How much better if we threw the term back at school-folk...institutionalized education sounds SO much worse than just going to school!!!! So, yes, NON-institutionalized education it is for me!!! (ok, I'm being mean, I know, I know)

 

My neighbour has a lovely gr. 8 dd that's experienced bullying. I hadn't even suggested homeschooling (though kind of felt sorry for this girl that she's not), when my neighbour said she could not do it because having a job means that her children could do extra-curricular activities such as horseback riding. I though that horseback riding was a pretty poor substitute for having a school experience that didn't include having to put up with what her dd puts up with. It's too bad that there are people out there who's children are suffering who feel that they just don't have a choice. In my town, it's more of a matter of just not wanting to do it and rather wanting "stuff" (you know, big house, nice furniture, gorgeous car...all the stuff that screams "status").

[Poke Salad Annie]

Classrooms devolve into that Lord of the Flies dynamic far too easily.

 

Yep, this pretty much sums it up, though it seems to be the playground, the neighborhood, youth group, Sunday school---you name it, it's just there.

[sarawatsonim]

I recently stopped taking my dd5 to the weekly storytime at the Library which she used to really enjoy. There was a group of girls there that was cliquish and really mean to her every time we went. It broke me heart to see the sadness in her face when they would pull there mats away and say she couldn't sit beside them. The worst part was, the girls parents saw the behavior and said nothing. If I saw my daughter doing that I would have pulled her aside and talked to her about how to treat people and including others. We now have changed our library days to a less active time and she looks forward to it. If purposely subjecting her to this behavior was supposed to be "beneficial" for building her character, I would rather be accused of sheltering her. I don't want to see my normally, loud, outgoing and happy girl become quiet, withdrawn and sad. Which she was for a couple of days after the library days. What's the benefit of that?

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I agree 100% with SmartMama's post:) I experienced and witnessed horrible bullying and frankly it did nothing for my character but take away the confidence in myself that I had prior to the bullying. It took me decades to overcome that and to regain confidence in myself. Thank goodness still had many successes and good fortune, but I still think that if I had confidence things would have been even better.

 

I think bullying is detrimental and is not necessary for fortitude at all.

 

 

My 2 cents:)

Edited February 10, 2010 by priscilla
grammar

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Thank you for posting that. You've given me an even better way to answer the question. We pulled DS from PS because of bullying. Not just any type of bullying but something that could kill him. He had a child that would taunt him with peanut butter daily, he's deathly allergic to peanuts and the teacher brushed him off. In fact the teacher told another child that DS's allergy was FAKE and MADE UP.

 

When we pulled him I was told by DH's family that I was wrong because "bullying breeds character". I wonder if they would feel that way if DS had ended up in the ER or worse the morgue due to his bully.

 

Oh dear God:(

:grouphug:

I can not imagine since I have a son with severe peanut allergies. Some people are just ignorant.:glare:

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I recently stopped taking my dd5 to the weekly storytime at the Library which she used to really enjoy. There was a group of girls there that was cliquish and really mean to her every time we went. It broke me heart to see the sadness in her face when they would pull there mats away and say she couldn't sit beside them. The worst part was, the girls parents saw the behavior and said nothing. If I saw my daughter doing that I would have pulled her aside and talked to her about how to treat people and including others. We now have changed our library days to a less active time and she looks forward to it. If purposely subjecting her to this behavior was supposed to be "beneficial" for building her character, I would rather be accused of sheltering her. I don't want to see my normally, loud, outgoing and happy girl become quiet, withdrawn and sad. Which she was for a couple of days after the library days. What's the benefit of that?

 

:iagree: What is up with some parents? It is ridiculous and sad how some of them do not even try to instill good manners. I know when we go to library time or other events that it still shocks me how parents do not even have their kids give up their seat for the adults/elders in the room. :confused:

[Splungeman]

We heard the "school helps kids deal with bullies" argument several times during the slightly tumultuous period after announcing our intention to homeschool our son. Like most of the arguments against homeschooling, it seems valid at first. Then, after further scrutiny, it is quite ridiculous. It's a fear-based response like all the others. How does public schooling teach your child anything about dealing with bullies? Some kids are bullied mercilessly and never learn anything at all other than how to just knuckle under and bear it until it's over. Those boys at Columbine sure didn't learn how to deal with bullies in school. They came up with their own way, and it was tragic.

 

Also, since schools are becoming more and more fearful of lawsuits, they are now encouraging, as part of their policy, that students who are attacked or bullied not fight back at all. They are encouraging kids to take the beatings! When I was in high school (fifteen years ago), a kid (honor student...nerdy kid) was being attacked by two others. They had him in a corner and were hitting him repeatedly with textbooks. He was yelling for help and putting his hands over his head. A teacher came by but didn't do anything to intervene other than shout "stop it". Finally the kid could take no more and flailed out with his fist. It bounced harmlessly off one of the bullies. They just beat him harder and he didn't try again. It was over about thirty seconds later when the campus police officer broke it up. What happened then? The bruised and bloody-nosed victim ended up receiving as big a punishment as the bully for that single swing of his fist. Guess who turned him in? The teacher who just stood there and yelled "stop it".

 

Sure...public school is wonderful at teaching kids to deal with bullies... :001_huh:

[Daisy]

Wonderful discussion ladies. It was fun coming back this morning and reading all the replies. Glad you liked the post as much as I did.

[lionfamily1999]

Dh and I were talking about this last night, strangely enough. My nephew suddenly has a body image issue. He thinks he's fat. The kids is 8 years old and wants to go on a diet. He's athletic, he's handsome, I would post a pic, but he's not mine and I'd have to ask my sister first. There is NOTHING wrong with him. He's dealing with cruelty. Does this seem like it will help him as an adult? Maybe, I mean, he'll probably already have a steady therapist, he'll already hate himself, he'll be a pro at binging and purging. His self worth will be beaten down enough that he'll expect the worst, so he won't face too many disappointments. Does this seem helpful?

 

With all my nephew is dealing with right now, I have to say that the idea of exposing my kids to these situations to prepare them for adulthood is positively assinine. Why not drive drunk, to prepare them for the eventuality that they'll come across drunks that want to drive? Or I could pay someone to try to rape them, so they'll be prepared in case that comes up later?

 

I don't know, here's a crazy idea, I could PROTECT them from these things and tell them how to deal with it when it comes up. I could build a firm foundation for them, of self-worth, so when they have to face these pigs later they'll be better able to ignore the ignorance.

[Splungeman]

Here's a few ways to teach kids to deal with bullies:

 

Karate Class

Kung Fu Class

Taekwondo Class

Jiujitsu Class

....etc

:tongue_smilie:

[laughing lioness]

My psychologist dh has had 12 yo's in his office due to "suicidal ideation" (they want to kill themselves) over bullying.

Not only does bullying victimize the bullyed, but those observing the bullying.

[Daisy]

Wouldn't one think that the best protection against bullying is self-confidence and self-worth? If that is the case, the best way to produce that is through a well-loved and safe childhood. The person is then armed with the ability to recognize bullying and the confidence not to put up with it.

[rwjx2khsmj]

Isn't this kind of like sending your child to (name your fast food restaurant of choice) to learn about nutrition?

[Jean in Newcastle]

I took my very sensitive son out of a homeschooling group because of bullying. He got so upset one day that I watched him take his plastic rifle, hide in the trees and pretend to shoot every boy on that playground. I had already known there was bullying and we had talked about strategies for dealing with it. But he didn't have the capacity for it and it was coming out in hate and revenge. I figured that we would get our socialization in other ways.

[MIch elle]

http://wcco.com/health/Phoebe.Prince.suicide.2.1452253.html

 

Tragic but true and this is not the first nor I'm afraid the last if states don't change the laws

 

Every state should enact a school anti-bullying law like FL : http://www.bullypolice.org/fl_law.html

[cin]

Isn't this kind of like sending your child to (name your fast food restaurant of choice) to learn about nutrition?

 

:smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:

 

 

[smrtmama]

We heard the "school helps kids deal with bullies" argument several times during the slightly tumultuous period after announcing our intention to homeschool our son. Like most of the arguments against homeschooling, it seems valid at first. Then, after further scrutiny, it is quite ridiculous. It's a fear-based response like all the others. How does public schooling teach your child anything about dealing with bullies? Some kids are bullied mercilessly and never learn anything at all other than how to just knuckle under and bear it until it's over. Those boys at Columbine sure didn't learn how to deal with bullies in school. They came up with their own way, and it was tragic.

 

Also, since schools are becoming more and more fearful of lawsuits, they are now encouraging, as part of their policy, that students who are attacked or bullied not fight back at all. They are encouraging kids to take the beatings! When I was in high school (fifteen years ago), a kid (honor student...nerdy kid) was being attacked by two others. They had him in a corner and were hitting him repeatedly with textbooks. He was yelling for help and putting his hands over his head. A teacher came by but didn't do anything to intervene other than shout "stop it". Finally the kid could take no more and flailed out with his fist. It bounced harmlessly off one of the bullies. They just beat him harder and he didn't try again. It was over about thirty seconds later when the campus police officer broke it up. What happened then? The bruised and bloody-nosed victim ended up receiving as big a punishment as the bully for that single swing of his fist. Guess who turned him in? The teacher who just stood there and yelled "stop it".

 

Sure...public school is wonderful at teaching kids to deal with bullies... :001_huh:

 

Yes, that zero tolerance for fighting policy means that your choices are either to defend yourself and get expelled or lay there and take a beating. Gee, what great choices! I'm so sad my kid is missing out on that.

[stormy weather]

Seems to me the reasoning behind this is backward. Good thing the pss doesn't try and teach everything this way. First ingrain the wrong way to do things and then hope that when children have grown up they will automatically know how to do things right.:banghead: Or maybe they do.......

I agree with alot of the other posters that since I graduation I have not had to experience any of the wierdness that I did while in the pss.

[TKDmom]

I was listening to NPR recently, and they had an article about bullying in schools. I didn't get to hear the whole thing, but in the snippet I did hear, they had a researcher saying that kids who are bullied bear the scars throughout their life. That as adults, they still have lower self-esteem. I'll have to see if I can find the article. My thought at the time was, "Duh!"

 

Kids need time to mature and develop a strong sense of their worth if they are going to be be able to withstand attacks from other people. Being a victim of bullying when they are young just teaches them how to be victims.

[Mommy22alyns]

I can't type out what I really feel about that argument. :glare: