Time advantage of home education disappearing in later grades?

[Laura Corin]

I used to talk, when the boys were younger, about how much more efficient home education was than school. Now that Calvin is almost thirteen, I am finding that the advantage is disappearing: in a well-run school, there wouldn't be much time lost in class with children this age, and we are finding that our week at home is pretty packed too.

 

Anyone else?

 

Laura

[amtmcm]

One word: Homework. Don't you think in the upper grades that even though the homeschool hours are longer, that diligent students can complete their assignments during school? Versus kids taking rigorous classes at a school usually have several hours of homework in the evening and weekends?

[elegantlion]

I find our teaching is taking longer this year. We are having more discussions and it takes longer to explain concepts. However, we find it still time effective for us. In fact we just discussed that this week.

 

Ds was in private school for prek-k and there was so much wasted time in the process of picking him up from school. They would start to get ready to leave with 15 minutes still left of school. I was usually already waiting so I wouldn't be at the back of the line and I would watch him get his coat on, clean up, etc. I wanted to just snatch him out of the classroom. By the time we dismissed it was at least 10 minutes after that.

 

Where we live now the pickup lines for school are ridiculous. I avoid going out during school time as it creates a traffic jam.

 

I'm not sure how "well-run school" would be defined where I live, probably not as orderly as I would imagine. Yes, our academics are taking longer and I know as he gets older that time will increase. However it is still effective for us by saving 45 min - 1 hour each day simply in transportation time.

[8filltheheart]

Our days definitely get longer. I don't know that it is as simple as home vs. school, but approach to education and life.

 

My high schoolers' days are probably much longer than the average ps kid. For example, this yr my 10th grader is reading approx. 25 whole books between history and lit. PS kids are reading "excerpt" lit and textbooks. I make her do far more math problem sets than a math teacher would probably assign. I know I am assigning far more writing assignments than ps, etc.

 

I believe that homeschooling still does have time advantages b/c of the flexibility of the time. However, efficiency is not going to reduce the number of hours required for each subject. It is not the same as in the younger yrs when teachers assign busy work as a class management technique b/c they are trying to juggle the skill level discrepancies of 30 kids. It is the flexibility of when my kids do their work that is the main benefit.

[choirfarm]

I was able to be SO much more flexible when they were younger. We could run errands or take care of my dad etc. School easily got done. Starting in junior high it got harder and my 9th grader really needs to be home from 9 till at least 3 and many times 4 or 5 to get it all done. So during the day it isn't more effecient. HOWEVER, he doesn't have the hours of homework in the evening that his friends in honors classes do every night. Plus, I can make the curriculum work for him. He is a couple of years ahead in science and is in Chemistry as a 9th having done Biology in 8th, so he will have time for more AP sciences in his love. I'm making him a statistics course for next year and plan to have him take the AP exam for it which he couldn't do in our local high school. That said, it sure is time consuming and MUCH harder for me to keep up with him and yet teach my 2nd grader phonics.. The age spread is about to kill me. My son has always been very independent, but this year I've had to spend a lot more time with him discussing. It was much easier when he and his brother who is 2 years younger did unit studies together. Now I have 3 different preparations for 3 grades...even with TOG.

 

Christine

[Ester Maria]

Honestly, I think that the problem lies somewhere else. Though I'm not sure how exactly to word it.

 

Even though I don't think there's an issue with teaching all subjects to younger kids, I do think they need to be exposed to competent professors which are experts in their respective fields - for all subjects, not only those they're interested in (also, keep in mind that their interests change as well - that's another reason why). While I consider myself a fairly educated person and definitely able to teach elementary/middle school material, in all honesty, I can't be as confident that in high school for some fields I can give them as much as a good professor could. Personally for me that's a bigger concern than time saving.

[Homeschooling6]

My oldest is in 6th grade and I too have noticed how much longer our school days are. I'm like were is his time to play outside? In fact a few days ago I was thinking; poor guy is not getting recess :glare:, what happened to all his free play:) and here I am saying ps kids don't get enough play time outside:001_huh:

[Laura Corin]

 

Even though I don't think there's an issue with teaching all subjects to younger kids, I do think they need to be exposed to competent professors which are experts in their respective fields - for all subjects, not only those they're interested in (also, keep in mind that their interests change as well - that's another reason why). While I consider myself a fairly educated person and definitely able to teach elementary/middle school material, in all honesty, I can't be as confident that in high school for some fields I can give them as much as a good professor could.

 

Calvin is going back to school at 14. For now, his subjects are within my grasp (except Mandarin, guitar and taekwondo, which I outsource) but he is starting to want other inputs - from other pupils and expert teachers. That's a major reason that we are sending him to school.

 

Laura

[8filltheheart]

Take a lit class, for example. In public school they might assign 3 or 4 books in a year to discuss (in a very rigorous class maybe one per month). Ideally one would read more than that on their own. But if one is spending 7 plus hours a day in school, they aren't using that time to read tons of books. They are listening to a teacher ramble on about one book everyday for a month. In a homeschool situation one could read 3 or 4 books a month for literature study alone. That might take a similar amount of time as a daily lit class, but it is a heck of a lot more material.

 

If you were in a situation where you were using the public school curriculum and they handed it over to be used as is (nothing added) I believe you would likely buzz through more quickly and then see the real time advantage.

 

Well.......my poor kids get to read all the books, have all the discussions, and listen to lots of lectures as well. (Teaching Co, etc)

 

I think that lectures are vital to learning. ;)

[Guest Alte Veste Academy]

Honestly, I think that the problem lies somewhere else. Though I'm not sure how exactly to word it.

 

Even though I don't think there's an issue with teaching all subjects to younger kids, I do think they need to be exposed to competent professors which are experts in their respective fields - for all subjects, not only those they're interested in (also, keep in mind that their interests change as well - that's another reason why). While I consider myself a fairly educated person and definitely able to teach elementary/middle school material, in all honesty, I can't be as confident that in high school for some fields I can give them as much as a good professor could. Personally for me that's a bigger concern than time saving.

 

Well, I think you worded that very well but unless you have access to a private school or a PS with stringent teacher requirements, sending your kids off in their high school years does not guarantee that they will ever have teachers who are experts in their fields. If they are lucky, they will have a few great teachers and some average teachers who care, but (at least in Texas) they're likely to have the football coach teaching geography and history and a math teacher who teaches formulas and execution rather than true understanding. I'm willing to put my ability to learn and teach along with my kids up against that any day. Another option is dual community college enrollment for areas I feel weaker or that the kids have a high level of ability and/or interest.

 

I do understand your concerns but unfortunately, the school options don't make me feel that my kids would be better off leaving homeschool for high school.

[abbeyej]

Certainly we're finding school takes more and more time... And we're only doing 6th grade so far. As others have said, I do believe we're still getting more done in those hours than could be accomplished in public school. (Not to mention the fact that some of ds' classes simply wouldn't be available to him as a 6th grader in most schools...)

 

I do think it's fun in the early grades how you can accomplish a great deal in very little time. My third grader is pretty much always done by lunch time, and that's taking a fairly leisurely approach to a good number of subjects, handled in a fairly thorough way. The 6th grader is usually up early and works till 3 or so and may still have homework (reading, math problems) to complete later in the day. (Shrug) I'm okay with that.

 

I do agree that lecture is a vital part of education. And that having really great mentors outside of mom and dad who have a love for and expertise in their field is very important when kids get to the high school level. Unfortunately, that's difficult to find in most schools across more than a subject or two... Those are challenges we'll be facing in the next few years, in addition to the greater time commitment of middle and high school courses...

[Haiku]

expert teachers.

 

My ninth grader goes to a specialized school for kids who need extra intervention to prepare for college. The school is a partnership with a university and attracts really good teachers ... or so they say.

 

I am routinely having to correct my dd's English papers because her teacher edits them incorrectly, making basic grammar errors. My dh has frequently had to send a note to the math teacher that her "corrected" answer is incorrect and our daughter's original answer was, in fact, correct. I was going over one of my dd's science papers recently and her teacher had given incorrect factual information on something very basic.

 

My dd has been in school since 5th grade, and I have not encountered any "experts." What I have encountered is people who got a teaching degree and so learned to manage classrooms full of kids. This does not an expert teacher make.

 

Tara

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

The days do get longer. Elementary kids can usually finish homeschooling by noon. My High Schoolers are usually doing lessons until 2 or 3.

 

Homeschooling is more efficient for the student!

 

A high school class is usually 50 minutes. Ten to 15 minutes of that time is taken up with administrative work and discipline. The teacher typically teaches 20 to 30 minutes. That leaves about 10 minutes to work on the assignment.

 

In our home the "class" runs as long (or short) as needed. A good average is 50 minutes. (And, I'll use that number to compare) It takes me less than 5 minutes for "administration"..... "let me see your history book, what page are you on? Did you have a written assignment?, etc"...... If discipline is needed the class is extended in minutes. I don't "teach" every single day. Many days I do teach over a section or chapter, but the teaching is usually a discussion of the material. Teaching time is about 10 minutes maybe. That leaves a full 35 minutes for the student to read, write, and work on assignments.

 

Now, home schooling is certainly NOT effiecent for the teacher. I have 4 students with 4 learning styles and some with LD problems. And, in high school it is very hard to do unit studies where everyone is taught at the same time!

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

We're also facing much longer days. DS (12yo, in more or less grade 7-8ish) works from 8AM till 4PM pretty much every day. We take Tuesday afternoon off for swim&gym and Thursday mornings for violin lessons. He also trains 9 hours per week at the pool. His days are pretty full.

 

I, too, have been wondering about his free time and recess. Where did it go? But DS is handling four languages, doing Sonlight, some pretty hard math and sciences (nothing out of the ordinary, but at the upper limit), history from a US point of view and a Canadian point of view, also from a British background and a French one (think the 100 years War!) So he's doing a lot more than schooled kids. What he's *not* working on are projects. I'd love to be able to give him a project, but there's no time!

[Georgiana Daniels]

When my oldest was hs'd through 7th and 8th grade, we spent about 4 hours a day on schoolwork. Even though she was "in school" less hours that her public school friends, she accomplished more because of the focused attention. Also, we schooled through the summer, which gave her the edge she needed before re-entering the system. Never underestimate the value of a few hours per day during the 10 weeks all the other kids are off:D

[Ester Maria]

Yes it would be lovely if our high schools were filled with experts in their field. Unfortunately, that is not the case at the high school level.

I'm not from the US. ;)

True, currently we reside here, but we actually do plan on going back sometime in the not so far future, perhaps even before they hit high school age (they're 11 and 12 at present). I'm not so concerned about ginnasio (8th & 9th grade), but I'd like them to attend liceo (10th-12th) in school, if not the whole ginnasio+liceo system.

 

The situation in Italy is somewhat better than what I've seen here, and the particular schools I have in mind are pretty good (they officially do attend school anyway, for the sake of handling formal things and doing yearly exams). :)

 

Consider what it takes one to become a high school teacher (in the US). Basically one double majors in teaching and a subject area. They also must take general education courses even if those courses have nothing to do with the area they ultimately teach. So the geography guy takes his geography courses, his general courses (art, music, gym, math, history, science, etc), and then his education courses (theory and practice of education). Then he does a year internship where he practices teaching. This is all done in a matter of about 5 years. Could he possibly be an expert in geography with all of the other stuff he must take? Could he even be an expert in education?

True, that's a very valid concern. Another reason why I didn't give my daughters to "the system" here.

[MIch elle]

Honestly, I think that the problem lies somewhere else. Though I'm not sure how exactly to word it.

 

Even though I don't think there's an issue with teaching all subjects to younger kids, I do think they need to be exposed to competent professors which are experts in their respective fields - for all subjects, not only those they're interested in (also, keep in mind that their interests change as well - that's another reason why). While I consider myself a fairly educated person and definitely able to teach elementary/middle school material, in all honesty, I can't be as confident that in high school for some fields I can give them as much as a good professor could. Personally for me that's a bigger concern than time saving.

 

:iagree:

 

I'm continually delighted by my 10th grade ds's education due to the high level of instruction he receives at his high school.

[MIch elle]

Ok, even with the lectures I imagine it goes more quickly in a homeschool setting. There is no shuffling around, no attendance taking, and questions/discussion probably go more quickly. If the discussion doesn't go more quickly it can most certainly go more in depth in a one on one (or small class) situation.

 

 

I KNOW from teaching 8th grade with my older ds that attending high school is much more effective and efficient than home education for us.

[MIch elle]

Yes, you live in one of the better states. ;)

 

I'm shocked by the education some states give their children. :glare:

 

We also chose send our ds to an all boys large Catholic school (1000 boys) which has up to 4 levels for each class so that all abilities are NOT together for all core subjects (religion, PE and beginning computer classes are all levels together).

[EKS]

My 13yo does about 5 hours of formal lessons per day (and this is what he considers "school time") but he has an additional 5 or so hours of assigned reading each week as well as read alouds with me (3 hours), classes at the local school (6 hours), violin lessons and practice (2 hours), and robotics club (6 hours). This adds up to almost 50 hours per week.

 

Of course, this doesn't count when he works slowly and the formal lesson time goes up to 8 or 9 hours in a day.

[Stacy in NJ]

One word: Homework. Don't you think in the upper grades that even though the homeschool hours are longer, that diligent students can complete their assignments during school? Versus kids taking rigorous classes at a school usually have several hours of homework in the evening and weekends?

 

Bingo. The kids on the college level track in our area must complete 2-3 hours of homework nightly. This is in addition to any extra curricular activities like sports, theatre, or clubs. If they're shooting for an A list college, those extra curriculars are very important to their transcript. Their days appear to be completely packed.

Edited November 20, 2009 by Stacy in NJ
sp

[Miss Marple]

Yeah, esp. with multiple kids in that level. I hit the bed totally exhausted at night. They all seem to have different schedules. All the boys do some sort of school work on the weekends....they do have very part-time jobs during the week as well as scouts and church activities. It seems that if one has an easy week, the other 2 don't. Somehow it was easier when I could put them to bed at 9:00;) and enjoy a little down time myself.

[KAR120C]

I don't think it's in the total time anymore. I think it's in the coordination.

 

We are NOT that fast - in fact in some things we are at a distinct disadvantage for efficiency (can't store chemicals in the "lab"... because it's the kitchen too, can't leave work set up because we're having dinner on that table). I've been organizing competitions for our homeschool group and the number of inefficiencies really adds up -- having to arrange a location and a proctor instead of just using the school library and a convenient staff person, drive across town to get the signature that would be just downstairs if there were a "real" principal instead of a chair of the homeschool group board, take the finished exam package to the post office because I don't have a school secretary who handles mail. I find myself getting jealous of teachers in schools with storage space, and real school furniture, and wall space, and custodial staff.

 

We work a full six hours at least most days, and I really see that increasing in the next few years, even into as much homework as PS gives. And this isn't dawdling time.

 

Where we have an advantage is in being able to arrange things. The one thing that I don't think even a well-run school generally does that well is matching up topics... But at home, if DS needs a math topic for science, it magically appears. If he's writing a ton for history, he's not also writing a ton for literature at the same time. If he's having trouble with a Latin concept, we can "park" on it for a while and catch up later. If a resource makes itself available, we can rearrange other things to take advantage of it. So to that extent, we are very efficient... but it doesn't come out as shorter days.

[Karen in CO]

Calvin is going back to school at 14. For now, his subjects are within my grasp (except Mandarin, guitar and taekwondo, which I outsource) but he is starting to want other inputs - from other pupils and expert teachers. That's a major reason that we are sending him to school.

 

Laura

 

My ds took outside classes at the local college during his highschool years for the same reason. What he loved about the classes and needed from them was the interaction with the other students.

 

I am especially happy that I outsourced the philosophy class he took. He was able to encounter the "big" ideas if philosophy for the first time with other people his age who were also considering them for the first time. I read all of his material with him and we discussed it together, but his assessment of me was correct, I have already encountered those ideas and formed an opinion about them. It was much more fun for him to discuss them with other neophytes. The experience of my ds in that class has made me more carefully consider the path of my homeschool as my kids grow through their developmental stages.

 

My thoughts on the loosing the advantage of time as your student ages. :lol: Sorry. Yep. You can't get by with sweet, short days anymore. But. They still probably beat their ps peers for time. The ps kids are in school 8-9 hours a day, then have 2-4 hours per day of homework plus weekend homework plus outside classes and sports. If you can squeeze all of that into a 8-10 hour day, then you are doing great. Also, the ps kids here on college tracks have summer reading and papers in their classes. An hour discussion with one kid takes just as long as an hour discussion with thirty, unlike teaching thirty kids to read. However, being able to have long discussions with well-read, intelligent kids is one of the big payoffs of homeschooling.

 

 

I think this is why I backed down to be more relaxed in as many areas as I could with my younger children. Once I worked my oldest through to college, I have just wanted to hold on to the youngest two and let them be little and enjoy learning for as long as possible. There is plenty of time to worry and fret over long days once they get older (like yours).

[abbeyej]

Yeah, esp. with multiple kids in that level. I hit the bed totally exhausted at night. They all seem to have different schedules. All the boys do some sort of school work on the weekends....they do have very part-time jobs during the week as well as scouts and church activities. It seems that if one has an easy week, the other 2 don't. Somehow it was easier when I could put them to bed at 9:00;) and enjoy a little down time myself.

 

Oh dear. You're frightening me! :)

[HollyinNNV]

I used to talk, when the boys were younger, about how much more efficient home education was than school. Now that Calvin is almost thirteen, I am finding that the advantage is disappearing: in a well-run school, there wouldn't be much time lost in class with children this age, and we are finding that our week at home is pretty packed too.

 

Anyone else?

 

Laura

 

Absolutely! I think the high school board has discussed this, too. I only replied to this discussion to mention that one of the top mistakes I made at the beginning of homeschooling was to mention that we could be more efficient and have shorter school days-to my dh. He has mentioned this to me numerous times as dd has gotten older. In our household-it is completely untrue at this point. She spends full (till evening) days every day and frequently has weekend homework.

 

Holly

[Rhondabee]

Ok, even with the lectures I imagine it goes more quickly in a homeschool setting. There is no shuffling around, no attendance taking, and questions/discussion probably go more quickly. If the discussion doesn't go more quickly it can most certainly go more in depth in a one on one (or small class) situation.

 

Perhaps the fault is all completely mine....

 

But I find that as my kids have gotten older we are much less efficient. At least *my* day seems so. There is *so* much shuffling around (on my part) from 9th grader to 6th grader to 4yo (and back and forth, and interruptions for questions) to cleaning up messes and cooking lunch and dinner and so on and so on. And, no, the cleaning and the cooking wouldn't be nearly so much if the kids weren't here!

 

My 9th grader is putting forth a lot of effort to be more independent this year (my 6th grader, too). But they *both* still need *me* to be a teacher. It is difficult getting to everything and everyone! I often feel guilty at my 9th grader's very long days ~ knowing that if I were available at every moment he needed me, his day would be so much shorter. But, such is life.

[Matryoshka]

We are NOT that fast - in fact in some things we are at a distinct disadvantage for efficiency (can't store chemicals in the "lab"... because it's the kitchen too, can't leave work set up because we're having dinner on that table). I've been organizing competitions for our homeschool group and the number of inefficiencies really adds up -- having to arrange a location and a proctor instead of just using the school library and a convenient staff person, drive across town to get the signature that would be just downstairs if there were a "real" principal instead of a chair of the homeschool group board, take the finished exam package to the post office because I don't have a school secretary who handles mail. I find myself getting jealous of teachers in schools with storage space, and real school furniture, and wall space, and custodial staff.

 

It's this kind of thing that has started me contemplating that perhaps sending them to high school might not be out of the question.

 

I do think we'd outsource some classes (science!) for high school if we homeschooled. The community college is 20 min away, not including parking and getting in the building time, and I'm not sure the classes are particularly rigorous compared to a high level high school class. Harvard Extension would be better, but even further away - and I have twins and what if they took separate classes on different schedules (which is likely)? Aaah!. I guess there are online classes, but I'm not completely sold that they'd be as good as a "real" class (someone want to convince me? ;)). And all of those things would cost quite a bit of money.

 

The local high school is very highly rated - I've really only heard good things about it. It's one of the better ones in the state, and I live in the same state as MIch elle. And it's 5 minutes from me, and free.

 

I'm not saying that's what we'll do, but honestly it wasn't even on my radar till recently. I also think you guys are scaring me. :tongue_smilie:

 

I wish I could just send them for AP Science, but my town won't allow that (and even if they did, they've got this weird rotating schedule so classes are at different times every day). :(

[forevergrace]

My daughter is ten, and this year has definitely been much longer. In the past dd would be done all her major work in about 3-4 hours. Over the years she's caught on that when she doesn't want to do something she'll drag it out. Which frustrates me, because I have to sit and wait for her to finish her problem, write her sentence, etc., so if there is a mistake I can explain it. This process delays the whole day, and frankly angers me. I couldn't (still can't) finish everything I need to.

 

Solution: I started this year w/homework. She has a certain amount of time for math, if it's a new concept I'm more lenient. However, if we've been doing it for a few weeks, I have no patience. We could sit at the table for an hour doing 10 problems. This then takes up part of our science, grammar, history, time. Believe me, this is the same child that can whip out 25 of the same problems in 15-30 minutes. And the clincher is they will be all right, if it is what she wants to do it. Now, I just say "it's time to shut the book, were moving on, and you'll finish it after school or during your break." Most days we start school at 8:00 and pretty much end at 3:00-3:30. We do take breaks, our main one at lunch for about an hour. So by 3:30 she really wants to be done. She is not happy to have to sit and do her work.

 

This year has been a challenge, I don't know if it is hormones or just plain defiance w/dd, but sometimes I just want to strangle her. I feel like the character from Desperate Housewives, it's been an exasperating day already.

Forevergrace:auto:

I really wish that was me in the car, driving off into the sunset!!!!!

[JennW in SoCal]

Where we have an advantage is in being able to arrange things. The one thing that I don't think even a well-run school generally does that well is matching up topics... But at home, if DS needs a math topic for science, it magically appears. If he's writing a ton for history, he's not also writing a ton for literature at the same time. If he's having trouble with a Latin concept, we can "park" on it for a while and catch up later. If a resource makes itself available, we can rearrange other things to take advantage of it. So to that extent, we are very efficient... but it doesn't come out as shorter days.

 

:iagree:

 

We're masters rearranging workloads and topics and assignments to make school fit life and opportunities. Outside classes are an impediment to this flexibility, and we have yet to find an outside class that is meaty enough to be worth the bother. We have to be choosy about what interrupts school -- in the early years we'd jump at any fun activity. But now, if we are going to rearrange school it has to be for a worthy, educational, and unique opportunity.

 

So much of our local high school culture is oriented solely on test scores and the college admissions contest, where I'm more interested in school for the sake of education. Creating and implementing a unique, individualized education for my teens is an all consuming prospect, but it is a worthy, if exhausting, endeavor.

[Ritsumei]

My little guy is still a munchkin, so I can't add tons, but I can say that when I was a PS student in both middle school and high school I carried a book with me at all times. Jurassic Park, various sci-fi, definitely NOT what we were working on. For the simple reason that I often had time that was empty. Time where I was required to be in class, but the class wasn't really doing anything: I'd finish a test before the end of the hour, or I did my homework during the lecture, or whatever. I used those books nearly every day, often multiple times a day. Even after I stopped putting them on my lap to read while the textbook was open on the desk...

 

I was definitely NOT receiving 8 hours of instruction. Besides the reading time, there is all that "passing time" to consider. In some schools it's not much: but 4 min between 8 classes is still 1/2 hour. I'd bet that even if it's taking you the same number of hours of instruction, if you were to take the academic load and give it to the public school they couldn't do it.

[StephanieZ]

Our days are definitely more packed in the older grades. My dd7 can still complete all her schooling, including violin practice, before lunch no problems.

 

ds10 can get his done in 7 hours, dd12 in 7 or 8.

 

I still think it is much more time efficient than away-from-home schooling, considering that my dc get their instrument practice done in that time frame and they also have a more rigorous course load than away-from-home school would. . .

 

I *do* miss the flexibility that comes with younger grades. It is soooo easy to get it all done quickly, take days off whenever we wanted to, etc.

 

The main thing for me that has changed is that it is not feasible to catch up on several days worth of schooling in a single day any longer. This year I finally instituted a formal school plan -- a huge excel spread sheet with "deadlines" weekly for every school subject. This keeps the older kids and I honest about whether they are making adequate progress. Without that structure, I had found that our 'just do the next section' approach that worked great through about 3rd grade to keep the kids on or ahead of "track" had slopped into taking 18 months to get through a very manageable English text book -- not because it couldn't be done in 20 min/day 5 days/week for 9 months. . .But because if the dc (and I) got sloppy and didn't do it for a few days/weeks here or there. . . etc, soon enough all of schooling was "behind". I had been soooo used to being able to just catch up on a month's worth of math in a few hours. . . or whatever. That's easy to do when you are doing Miquon and Singapore Gr1-2. . . But NOT possible when doing Thinkwell's Intermediate Algebra!!

 

So, being accountable to schedule and needing to make progress daily in most/all major subjects is the big sea change for us as the kids get into logic stage level work. I can't just let them goof off for a week if someone gets the flu anymore, or we decide to take a roadtrip, etc! We can only get away with those things if we make it up before/after in a concerted effort.

[newlifemom]

 

My dd has been in school since 5th grade, and I have not encountered any "experts." What I have encountered is people who got a teaching degree and so learned to manage classrooms full of kids. This does not an expert teacher make.

 

Tara

 

 

 

:iagree: I have an undergraduate degree in history. When I was researching what it would take to become a high school history teacher, all I had to do was to get a MA in teaching. It would not have involved any more history knowledge than I already had, which was a little, but certainly not expert level. All the classes I had to take in the MA program were WRT teaching methodology, management, etc. If I were to outsource classes, I would probably being with a CC at the very least. KWIM?

[Laura Corin]

If I were to outsource classes, I would probably being with a CC at the very least. KWIM?

 

Is forty minutes drive away and I don't hear very good reports of it. The teaching quality is very variable and the students seem mostly to be pupils who are trying again after failing in school.

 

If there weren't an excellent school for the boys then I would probably keep them at home. As it is, I think I've found a good match for them.

 

Regards

 

Laura

[JustGin]

I used to talk, when the boys were younger, about how much more efficient home education was than school. Now that Calvin is almost thirteen, I am finding that the advantage is disappearing: in a well-run school, there wouldn't be much time lost in class with children this age, and we are finding that our week at home is pretty packed too.

 

Anyone else?

 

Laura

 

Not for us: If anything I think high school at home is even more obviously efficient. Dd definitely has more work to do this year (9th) but she is well able to complete her daily work between 8:00 am & 2:00 pm 4 days a week, a full hour ahead of local schools and she has plenty of time for running, pleasure reading, two music lessons with practice, a weekly drama class, self learning of the guitar, babysitting jobs, family time and veg time.

The ways her time is maximized are many; She does not have to wait for and ride the bus; transition time between subjects is virtually instantaneous; she often maximizes her time by listening to her history text on audio while other tasks and distractions are extremely limited.

[newlifemom]

Is forty minutes drive away and I don't hear very good reports of it. The teaching quality is very variable and the students seem mostly to be pupils who are trying again after failing in school.

 

If there weren't an excellent school for the boys then I would probably keep them at home. As it is, I think I've found a good match for them.

 

Regards

 

Laura

 

For that I am glad. This is my fear in the later years. I am just trying to learn as much as possible and hope to find acceptable resources for dc higher level learning.

[TechWife]

We have a full day of school here as well. Rocket Boy works for about 5-6 hours on his assignments, but then he's done. In that regard, we are more efficient because he doesn't spend his evenings on homework. He does have extra-curricular activities in the evenings, just like ps kids.

 

We have always expected our days to get longer, however. It simply takes longer to learn more complicated material. It takes longer to do an algebra problem than to do an addition problem, it takes longer to write an essay than to write a paragraph, the books he reads are longer and he has lab reports for science now, just to name a few things that have led to increased time demands.

 

For hs, he will either go to a charter school or stay home and have a combination of home classes, outsourced high school classes and cc classes. We have about another year before we have to decide that.

[teacalm]

In my case, I do not doubt that homeschooling is more efficient. However, as the kids approaches the middle school levels, I can't avoid the fact that the volume of their work increases. Add to this is the increase amount of time devoted to explaining the unavoidable more complex materials. I just can't hand work to my kids, let's say about how prepositional phrases works, and asks them, "Don't you know this by now?" My kids have short live memories, and they need me to ring their heads to remembrance of their past lessons.

 

With ds13, I cannot believe how much materials he needs to cover in his subjects. Although, he's capable of reading the materials, unfortunately, he does not have the maturity to be able to tackle all of these without my reminders. He still is very much a kid, and there lies another work for me, on top of the teaching work that I have to do. Between those work are also the battle of "wills", and finally, the resolution of how to handle those so I can go back to my job of teaching.

 

As one of the posters said, it also leaves me reeling off my head. When all of my kids come to me to ask for assistance in their writing assignments, it does not take only 5 minutes or so. It gets involved with each one of them if you want to be assured that they get it. I can't wait to sleep off the dizziness and exhaustion so I can start refresh again the next day.

 

As they get older, it does not mean they get the materials faster. My kids still needs me to be involved. Big, big sigh!!

[Starr]

I hate this about the kids growing up. I loved those days driving to Canada for dance. The dc did car school work on the way up and listened to a story coming home. We could easily do this once a week with stops in the museums and still keep up with their work.

[Thea]

I used to talk, when the boys were younger, about how much more efficient home education was than school. Now that Calvin is almost thirteen, I am finding that the advantage is disappearing: in a well-run school, there wouldn't be much time lost in class with children this age, and we are finding that our week at home is pretty packed too.

 

Anyone else?

 

Laura

 

This is definitely true. The upside is that there isn't as much *homework*--all work is just done , for the most part during the day, during the week. My 10th grader has very full days though--a good solid 6-8 hours.

[Capt_Uhura]

The main thing for me that has changed is that it is not feasible to catch up on several days worth of schooling in a single day any longer. This year I finally instituted a formal school plan -- a huge excel spread sheet with "deadlines" weekly for every school subject. This keeps the older kids and I honest about whether they are making adequate progress. Without that structure, I had found that our 'just do the next section' approach that worked great through about 3rd grade to keep the kids on or ahead of "track" had slopped into taking 18 months to get through a very manageable English text book -- not because it couldn't be done in 20 min/day 5 days/week for 9 months. . .But because if the dc (and I) got sloppy and didn't do it for a few days/weeks here or there. . . etc, soon enough all of schooling was "behind". I had been soooo used to being able to just catch up on a month's worth of math in a few hours. . . or whatever. That's easy to do when you are doing Miquon and Singapore Gr1-2. . . But NOT possible when doing Thinkwell's Intermediate Algebra!!

 

So, being accountable to schedule and needing to make progress daily in most/all major subjects is the big sea change for us as the kids get into logic stage level work. I can't just let them goof off for a week if someone gets the flu anymore, or we decide to take a roadtrip, etc! We can only get away with those things if we make it up before/after in a concerted effort.

 

Stephanie - what you wrote really rang true for me! Thank you! I have a DS9 who's definitely logic stage and a DS6 and a almost 3yr old as well. This is my 2nd year HSing him and my first year also HSing my 1st grader. I'm finding I need more of a plan rather than just do the next thing b/c we've gotten behind in certain areas and there is no way to catch up.

 

Capt_Uhura

[Audrey]

Is forty minutes drive away and I don't hear very good reports of it. The teaching quality is very variable and the students seem mostly to be pupils who are trying again after failing in school.

 

If there weren't an excellent school for the boys then I would probably keep them at home. As it is, I think I've found a good match for them.

 

Regards

 

Laura

 

 

I remember your posts during your search for a good school for them, Laura. I'm glad you found a good match. :001_smile: Sometimes, I wish there were a good, small school around here, but alas! I think it shall never be. I know my ds is getting to be like your Calvin -- wanting more from more people, more input!

 

I'm finding our days get a bit longer each year, but when I weigh it against public school hours, plus public school homework, we aren't anywhere near the same time spent on schoolwork.

[Haiku]

Wow, people are making homeschooling older kids sound very un-fun and discouraging. But I have a ninth grader in school (as I mentioned earlier in this thread) and watching her go through 4 1/2 years in school has convinced me even more firmly than I was convinced before that my younger kids will not be going to school. I know I can give them a better education at home. But who wants to spend 10 hours a day doing so?

 

I do intend to make use of CC classes for my kids when they are old enough (here I think you have to be 15).

 

Tara

[8filltheheart]

Wow, people are making homeschooling older kids sound very un-fun and discouraging. But I have a ninth grader in school (as I mentioned earlier in this thread) and watching her go through 4 1/2 years in school has convinced me even more firmly than I was convinced before that my younger kids will not be going to school. I know I can give them a better education at home. But who wants to spend 10 hours a day doing so?

 

I do intend to make use of CC classes for my kids when they are old enough (here I think you have to be 15).

 

Tara

 

 

I don't know that I would call high school "un-fun" but it is a huge responsibility and a lot of work. In many ways, it is a time of great satisfaction b/c you actually reap the benefits of all your efforts from their younger yrs. The discussions are wonderful and not to be missed. I love listening to my kids' insights/perspectives on all sorts of subjects. I also like questioning them and watching them ponder different perspectives and re-thinking ideas and coming up with conclusions that are even deeper than any of us had before.

 

I don't particularly enjoy teaching many high school subjects........upper level maths and science especially. The often quoted 'outsourcing" solution is not always a good one. Where we used to live had excellent choices and where we live now does not (which is funny b/c the population of our old city and surrounding counties was approx. 400,000 and here is 1,220,000)

 

All outsourced options are simply not equal. I would not have my very math oriented ds take math at the CC for example. The universities here do not allow dual enrollment. I have been more disappointed by our online experiences than satisfied.

 

If I only had 1 or 2 kids, I would probably be enjoying this yr a lot more. My 10th grader is a great student. But........unfortunately, it is more a matter of me feeling like her courses are a huge burden for me to keep up with.

 

Simple reality. High school courses require my learning in order to teach, require far more time for me to understand and grade, and are simply more time-consuming than the younger yrs.

[Haiku]

We are lucky to live in an area that has the CC that consistently ranks in the top 5 nationwide. And they have recently implemented a program where certain majors are now connected to one of the state colleges, so if you take that major you have the option of getting your bachelor's degree at the CC, for CC prices, with the diploma coming from the state school.

 

Tara

[Lolly]

High school is certainly requiring more time and effort. If it didn't, I would be very concerned!!!

[KAR120C]

Wow, people are making homeschooling older kids sound very un-fun and discouraging. But I have a ninth grader in school (as I mentioned earlier in this thread) and watching her go through 4 1/2 years in school has convinced me even more firmly than I was convinced before that my younger kids will not be going to school. I know I can give them a better education at home. But who wants to spend 10 hours a day doing so?

 

I do intend to make use of CC classes for my kids when they are old enough (here I think you have to be 15).

 

Tara

It's fun, but in a different way -- I think it's more "exciting" than fun... and it still has some major advantages.

 

I tend to bristle, perhaps more than necessary, about how hard it gets. First because DS is young for the work he's doing - so I get a lot of "let him be a kid" and implications that the main reason we should homeschool is it's easy and that if it's not easy we're doing it wrong... It's still exactly right for us, but definitely not easy. And second because I tutor older kids, and there's a visible split between the point where people say "no rush, we'll get to it" and the point where they start to say "uh oh - we have too little time left and too much left to do in it" (and then they hire a tutor). I think there would be less panic at the end if there were a little more in the beginning. Not that there's anything wrong with being laid back, but that if you know there's a point coming when you're going to want things to have been done, it's something to keep an eye on even when it looks far away.

 

But it's still fun! I love that I can give DS the flexibility to pursue his interests and work ahead when he's ready (and take more time when he's not!) or to add in extra resources. I just revamped our whole biology year to accomodate some new videos I only just got this week. I love that we can throw in a history unit on The Cold War because it relates to his science fair project, and we can stick with it for as long as it's interesting. If it turns out to be extremely interesting, we could do a whole year of Cold War history and who cares that that's not a usual class title! And I love that I can contemplate dedicating a whole year of math to Financial Math, to go with a year of Economics... and I can match them up topic-for-topic. Absolutely worth it, but definitely not easy - not easy for him and not easy for me.

[IsabelC]

What if you consider effectiveness rather than raw time? Sure, a high school age home schooler might be spending just as much time 'doing school' as her school educated peers, but most - if not all - of her work will consist of exactly what she needs/wants to do at exactly the right level, whereas the school kids will be 'wasting' a proportion of their time doing work that is too easy/difficult and/or irrelevant for them because their program is not individualized to the same degree. So more bang for your buck as far as the hours are concerned.

[johnandtinagilbert]

I used to talk, when the boys were younger, about how much more efficient home education was than school. Now that Calvin is almost thirteen, I am finding that the advantage is disappearing: in a well-run school, there wouldn't be much time lost in class with children this age, and we are finding that our week at home is pretty packed too.

 

Anyone else?

 

Laura

I haven't read this large thread :D, but I can answer your ?? Absolutely. What was 3 hours is now, honestly a 10 hour day. To get in meals, shores, and school takes us 10 hours. Easily.