Shouting is the new spanking?

[gingersmom]

From todays New York Times.

 

It struck a chord with me as my mother was a major yeller when I was growing up. History does not repeat itself. There is no yelling allowed in my house.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/22/fashion/22yell.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=screaming&st=cse

Edited October 23, 2009 by gingersmom

[angela in ohio]

"Many in today’s pregnancy-flaunting, soccer-cheering, organic-snack-proffering generation of parents would never spank their children. We congratulate our toddlers for blowing their nose (“Good job!”), we friend our teenagers (literally and virtually), we spend hours teaching our elementary-school offspring how to understand their feelings. But, incongruously and with regularity, this is a generation that yells."

 

Love this part!

 

I have beliefs about spanking and yelling and how they relate, but we have been down that road so many times on this board... ;) Can't we talk about a certain upcoming holiday or maybe Teaching Textbooks...

[MariannNOVA]

From todays New York Times.

 

It struck a chord with me as my mother was a major yeller when I was growing up. History does not repeat itself. There is no yelling aloud in my house.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/22/fashion/22yell.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=screaming&st=cse

 

My mother was as well....the neighbor whose back yard was diagonally across from ours --- SHE was the Olympic gold-medal yeller.

[Perry]

From todays New York Times.

 

It struck a chord with me as my mother was a major yeller when I was growing up. History does not repeat itself. There is no yelling aloud in my house.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/22/fashion/22yell.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=screaming&st=cse

 

I don't believe yelling is anything new. My mom screamed at (and spanked) me ; her parents and grandparents yelled at and beat her. I don't spank, and I have worked really hard at not yelling. But it's a challenge, since the only parenting model I know involved daily screaming. History would have repeated itself here had I not made a major effort to break the cycle.

[Mrs Mungo]

I come from a family of yellers. However, we yell *all the time*! My husband is always saying "why are you yelling?" And I say "I'm not yelling, I'm just expressing emotion!" We have loud voices to begin with, that doesn't help (a speech therapist told my aunt it is due to our very high palates).

 

The upside of this? When we were in high school we would come home and say "the band director was so upset, he started yelling at everyone, hit his music stand and paper clips flew everywhere, it was hilarious!" While my mom's friends had kids who came home and cried. My mom felt our family had better prepared us for the world.

[MariannNOVA]

I come from a family of yellers. However, we yell *all the time*! My husband is always saying "why are you yelling?" And I say "I'm not yelling, I'm just expressing emotion!" We have loud voices to begin with, that doesn't help (a speech therapist told my aunt it is due to our very high palates).

 

The upside of this? When we were in high school we would come home and say "the band director was so upset, he started yelling at everyone, hit his music stand and paper clips flew everywhere, it was hilarious!" While my mom's friends had kids who came home and cried. My mom felt our family had better prepared us for the world.

 

 

:lol::lol::lol: thank you for this -- I am going to go eat a candy bar now!:D

[amy g.]

I've been working on not yelling for the past 10 years, particularly during Lent.

 

I definitely believe that it can be an abusive way to parent.

 

One thing that I've discovered is that my level of patience is directly related to how much sleep I had the night before.

 

My 13 year old is giving me a run for my money today. I called and had him talk to his dad. I've written down what I want him to do. I keep repeating my instructions in a calm unemotional voice, but staying in control is about to kill me today.

 

I suspect that he was just as much of a hormonal teenager yesterday, but it didn't bother me as much because I had a full night of high quality sleep.

 

Last night, I had my 11 year old and my 3 year old get in bed with me. Between being cramped, and the still internal baby making me uncomfortable, I did not get much rest.

[Erica in PA]

From todays New York Times.

 

It struck a chord with me as my mother was a major yeller when I was growing up. History does not repeat itself. There is no yelling aloud in my house.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/22/fashion/22yell.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=screaming&st=cse

 

Very interesting. I grew up in a house of yellers, and am so grateful that my kids do not experience that. It's interesting to think about the relationship between spanking and yelling. It does seem to me that a lot of parents who spank, really oppose yelling, and a lot of parents who yell, really oppose spanking. Of course some don't do either, and some do both. I can see where parents who don't use corporal punishment might be more prone to yell out of frustration.

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

:lol::lol::lol: thank you for this -- I am going to go eat a candy bar now!:D

 

 

You just reminded me that there was a Kit-Kat sitting on the mantle. Thank-You!!

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

nt

Edited October 23, 2009 by RecumbentHeart

[Jugglin'5]

"Many in today’s pregnancy-flaunting, soccer-cheering, organic-snack-proffering generation of parents would never spank their children. We congratulate our toddlers for blowing their nose (“Good job!â€), we friend our teenagers (literally and virtually), we spend hours teaching our elementary-school offspring how to understand their feelings. But, incongruously and with regularity, this is a generation that yells."

 

Love this part!

 

I have beliefs about spanking and yelling and how they relate, but we have been down that road so many times on this board... ;) Can't we talk about a certain upcoming holiday or maybe Teaching Textbooks...

 

Yup...I probably have the same theory. :lurk5:

[Desert Rat]

I come from a family of yellers. However, we yell *all the time*! My husband is always saying "why are you yelling?" And I say "I'm not yelling, I'm just expressing emotion!" We have loud voices to begin with, that doesn't help (a speech therapist told my aunt it is due to our very high palates).

 

The upside of this? When we were in high school we would come home and say "the band director was so upset, he started yelling at everyone, hit his music stand and paper clips flew everywhere, it was hilarious!" While my mom's friends had kids who came home and cried. My mom felt our family had better prepared us for the world.

 

Reading this thread I was beginning to think that I was some sort of freak. I do yell at my kids. I do try to control it but, hey, I'm human. I come from a long line of yellers. I don't throw things at my kids like my grandmother did (flying glass ashtrays) or beat them like my grandfather (think leather strap). So, already I'm ahead of the game.

 

I yell sometimes. I'm a red-headed, Irish, gemini. Temper is my Achilles' heel. Thanks for voicing a different side.

[Imprimis]

I come from a family of yellers. However, we yell *all the time*! My husband is always saying "why are you yelling?" And I say "I'm not yelling, I'm just expressing emotion!" We have loud voices to begin with, that doesn't help (a speech therapist told my aunt it is due to our very high palates).

 

 

 

We are quite loud, too. And, we probably can't blame high palates. I like to blame the Italian part of my heritage ;). Yes, we yell at times, we also laugh a lot, LOUDLY, also. That's just us. And it works...

[Slartibartfast]

I am a yeller. My voice is just loud. People are always, "don't yell," and I am "I am not yelling, DO YOU WANT TO HEAR ME YELLING! THIS IS YELLING!!!"

[melissel]

Reading this thread I was beginning to think that I was some sort of freak. I do yell at my kids. I do try to control it but, hey, I'm human. I come from a long line of yellers....

 

I yell sometimes. I'm a red-headed, Irish, gemini. Temper is my Achilles' heel. Thanks for voicing a different side.

 

Me too (except I'm a Cancer) :blushing: My mother is the growler and yeller, and my dad is the acid, cut-you-off-at-the-knees patronizer. My fuse is so short, it goes in the other direction. We discussed this a bit in the spanking thread, and I said there that it's my greatest failure as a parent. Sometimes I'll yell at the kids and my mind will time-warp back to my mother in my childhood, and I'll feel sick to my stomach :( I'm working on it, I really am.

[Mad Jenny Flint]

However, I think a lot comes across in tone, and in content. Just becoming frustrated and letting that be known in a raised voice... I don't think that's so bad... and, for the record, my voice is pretty quiet and doesn't throw easily. I am not a "loud" person. But I do yell.

 

Sarcasm, and belittling, cutting commentary is far worse, in my opinion. In any decibel range.

[KrissiK]

And then there's some of us who come from stoic German stock who just wish someone would show just the slightest bit of emotion, anger, panic, or otherwise.:D

 

I wouldn't say that I'm a yeller, though on occasion I do yell at my kids. I'm not a huge spanker, though, on occasion, they get spanked. I would say I'm well balanced with all the so-called parental vices.;)

 

And, I agree with Jenny, that the content is often more critical than the decibels.

[LG Gone Wild]

Reading this thread I was beginning to think that I was some sort of freak. I do yell at my kids. I do try to control it but, hey, I'm human. I come from a long line of yellers. I don't throw things at my kids like my grandmother did (flying glass ashtrays) or beat them like my grandfather (think leather strap). So, already I'm ahead of the game.

 

I yell sometimes. I'm a red-headed, Irish, gemini. Temper is my Achilles' heel. Thanks for voicing a different side.

 

Me too!...

 

I'm obnoxious (said kiddie fish).

 

I am very sarcastic. It's trait like being loyal or short. Sarcasm isn't cruelty. It can be used in cruel way but sometimes (mostly) it's just funny.

[Murphy101]

I come from a family of yellers. However, we yell *all the time*! My husband is always saying "why are you yelling?" And I say "I'm not yelling, I'm just expressing emotion!" We have loud voices to begin with, that doesn't help (a speech therapist told my aunt it is due to our very high palates).

 

The upside of this? When we were in high school we would come home and say "the band director was so upset, he started yelling at everyone, hit his music stand and paper clips flew everywhere, it was hilarious!" While my mom's friends had kids who came home and cried. My mom felt our family had better prepared us for the world.

 

 

:lol: This is totally me!

I and 3 of the kids have very high palates and I never made that connection to us being louder than the rest, which to be fair aren't exactly pipsqueeks. Baby girl has a high palate she her normal cry is so loud that we can't hear the smoke detectors or tornado sirens go off.

[Remudamom]

Merciful heavens, I yell. I don't remember my mom yelling (Southern Lady) and I remember my dad yelling once. I remember a spanking or two, and they were deadly calm when administering them.

[BikeBookBread]

I come from a family of yellers. However, we yell *all the time*! My husband is always saying "why are you yelling?" And I say "I'm not yelling, I'm just expressing emotion!"

 

:lol::lol: This is my husband and me as well! My family is LOUD; his is well, extremely reserved. I heard his mom yell once and only once, and it was truly frightening.

 

Back to the article:

 

“This is so the issue right now. As parents understand that it’s not socially acceptable to spank children, they are at a loss for what they can do. They resort to reminding, nagging, timeout, counting 1-2-3 and quickly realize that

those strategies don’t work to change behavior

. In the absence of tools that really work, they feel frustrated and angry and raise their voice. They feel guilty afterward, and the whole cycle begins again.”

Well, Amy Macready (the quote) is right about one thing: those strategies DON'T work to change behavior. There are times when we are out in public that I want to gag when I hear in that certain, special, sing-songy "butter wouldn't melt in my mouth" tone: "you are making wrong choices Johnny." And all the while Little Johnny is having a meltdown in the toy aisle at Target. But I also want to gag when I see the Mom HOLLERING at her child in that same toy aisle because he won't stop touching TOYS. I think we just center our lives around our children too much, and stop acting like adults. I "know" that Little Johnny has probably been warned about his behavior (by both Moms) about 10 times already. The "singsong" Mom has no backbone to do anything about it, and the "hollering" Mom is beyond her last nerve, should've done something about it a long time before the meltdown point, and regrets the yelling, but keeps on doing it because she doesn't see what she can do at that point (hmmmm, the voice of personal experience?).

 

I think the assertion that spanking is "not socially acceptable" is a bit overstated. Perhaps in some circles it is not acceptable, but it is not a fair assertion to say that all find it socially unacceptable. I'm not making a statement for or against spanking; I just don't see this as a true assertion.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I grew up in a house with yelling and spanking. Not many positive words thrown my way. I think my mom was just plain overwhelmed raising 4 teenagers that everything I did was an annoyance to her (even though I tried my darndest to please and was crushed by every raised voice.) My older brother once told me that I had to let it be "like water off a duck's back." I just couldn't ... the words hurt. My oldest brother is not a yeller or a spanker. I can't say I agree with every parenting decision he made, but the proof is in the pudding. His kids are charming, well-grounded, self-controlled, self-motivated. (1 is a PhD candidate in Math and the other is in grad school to become a PA. ) I try to parent more by his example. As a previous poster mentioned, I don't live up to my parenting ideals when I am tired or stressed. I am working on this very hard. I do apologize to my kids when I lose it. I don't apologize for being angry, nor for calling them on their misbehavior, but for my inappropriate reaction.

 

Another previous poster mentioned a dichotomy where spankers deplore yelling and non-spankers yell more. I really do not agree with this. Most non-spankers I know want to parent in a non-violent, non-humiliating way. Most non-spankers I know deplore yelling and want to find better ways. Alas, nobody is perfect.

[kalanamak]

The upside of this? When we were in high school we would come home and say "the band director was so upset, he started yelling at everyone, hit his music stand and paper clips flew everywhere, it was hilarious!" While my mom's friends had kids who came home and cried. My mom felt our family had better prepared us for the world.

 

My mother didn't yell at us, but she shouted her unhappiness while she cleaned up the dinner dishes. Think of it: up since 6, three meals made, a pack of children, which she raised with cloth diapers and a ringer washer and for most of it no drier, no perma-press (think of ironing the sheets), floors you had to strip and wax, etc. etc. etc. My very smart father helped her and said "Yes dear, no dear" while she told the universe in general how put upon she was.

 

We kids took this as the "time to go to your room and do your homework" signal. I thought nothing of it. It was just something Mommy did between 7 and 7:30. Once we were all above 12 or so, it stopped. She had less work, and was not so frazzled by the end of the day.

 

Just today I listened to at least 3 women scream and shout. Swear words. Spit. Ho Hum. I appreciate the thick skin my mother gave me. And that evening shout probably did her some good, too. There was no internet to vent on!

[Joanne]

Poor reporting, bad logic, connecting dots that are not connected.

 

1) Statistics show that most parents spank.

 

2) The article assumes that without spanking, the parent doesn't have discipline and gets overwhelmed, and yells "instead".

 

It's the same (flawed) logic I've seen in spanking discussions on the net. "I'd rather a swat on the bottom than screaming."

 

Those are NOT the choices.

 

The article misrepresents parents in general and patronizes.

 

The issue, IMO, with parenting is the presense of an over-punitive or permissive setting. Overly punitive/adversarial parents have developmentally inappropriate expectations and believe punishment will extinguish behavior. Permissive parents expect children will effectively grow out of stages. Both are wrong. Permissive parents often explode periodically into spanking, yelling, or other ineffective responses. Punitive parents aren't bad because of the specific techniques used (spanking, time outs, raising voice) but the frequency, motives behind and the tone created by their use.

 

The article is poor and fails to address the real issues involved in quality (or not) parenting.

[catalinakel]

My mother didn't yell at us, but she shouted her unhappiness while she cleaned up the dinner dishes. Think of it: up since 6, three meals made, a pack of children, which she raised with cloth diapers and a ringer washer and for most of it no drier, no perma-press (think of ironing the sheets), floors you had to strip and wax, etc. etc. etc. My very smart father helped her and said "Yes dear, no dear" while she told the universe in general how put upon she was.

 

We kids took this as the "time to go to your room and do your homework" signal. I thought nothing of it. It was just something Mommy did between 7 and 7:30. Once we were all above 12 or so, it stopped. She had less work, and was not so frazzled by the end of the day.

 

Just today I listened to at least 3 women scream and shout. Swear words. Spit. Ho Hum. I appreciate the thick skin my mother gave me. And that evening shout probably did her some good, too. There was no internet to vent on!

 

I love this picture you have painted....could be the basis of an old fashioned sit-com.

[kmacnchs]

My grandfather physically abused my father so my father swore to never lay a hand on us...so we were verbally and emotionally abused. I was berated my whole life. I think I would prefer to be abused physically because at least I could tell the police and they could get him out of my life. I know that's horrible to say, but that's kinda how I feel.

 

So, being berated was ingrained into my life and it takes all I have not to do the same. Abuse begets abuse. If it's all you know...

 

Thankfully my dh keeps me in check. Lots of prayer, Lots of breathing, lots of prayer, lots of breathing...

 

I try to turn away my wrath with a gentle answer and keep in mind to be slow to anger and slow to speak...it's a minute-by-minute struggle but I really want to break the cycle!

[johnandtinagilbert]

 

Back to the article:

 

“This is so the issue right now. As parents understand that it’s not socially acceptable to spank children, they are at a loss for what they can do. They resort to reminding, nagging, timeout, counting 1-2-3 and quickly realize that

those strategies don’t work to change behavior

. In the absence of tools that really work, they feel frustrated and angry and raise their voice. They feel guilty afterward, and the whole cycle begins again.â€

Well, Amy Macready (the quote) is right about one thing: those strategies DON'T work to change behavior. There are times when we are out in public that I want to gag when I hear in that certain, special, sing-songy "butter wouldn't melt in my mouth" tone: "you are making wrong choices Johnny." And all the while Little Johnny is having a meltdown in the toy aisle at Target. But I also want to gag when I see the Mom HOLLERING at her child in that same toy aisle because he won't stop touching TOYS. I think we just center our lives around our children too much, and stop acting like adults. I "know" that Little Johnny has probably been warned about his behavior (by both Moms) about 10 times already. The "singsong" Mom has no backbone to do anything about it, and the "hollering" Mom is beyond her last nerve, should've done something about it a long time before the meltdown point, and regrets the yelling, but keeps on doing it because she doesn't see what she can do at that point (hmmmm, the voice of personal experience?).

 

I think the assertion that spanking is "not socially acceptable" is a bit overstated. Perhaps in some circles it is not acceptable, but it is not a fair assertion to say that all find it socially unacceptable. I'm not making a statement for or against spanking; I just don't see this as a true assertion.

:iagree: "not socially acceptable" even if that were true, and I don't think it is, um I don't really care about socially acceptable. I'd rather find a happy medium, like occasional spanking or yelling...almost never the 2 together, than sounding all fluffy bunny or like a crazy woman in the grocery store.

 

My mother didn't yell at us, but she shouted her unhappiness while she cleaned up the dinner dishes. Think of it: up since 6, three meals made, a pack of children, which she raised with cloth diapers and a ringer washer and for most of it no drier, no perma-press (think of ironing the sheets), floors you had to strip and wax, etc. etc. etc. My very smart father helped her and said "Yes dear, no dear" while she told the universe in general how put upon she was.

 

We kids took this as the "time to go to your room and do your homework" signal. I thought nothing of it. It was just something Mommy did between 7 and 7:30. Once we were all above 12 or so, it stopped. She had less work, and was not so frazzled by the end of the day.

 

Just today I listened to at least 3 women scream and shout. Swear words. Spit. Ho Hum. I appreciate the thick skin my mother gave me. And that evening shout probably did her some good, too. There was no internet to vent on!

That sounds a lot like my evenings, only they know to just give me a breath about 3 in the afternoon and I'll be good for the rest of the day....otherwise, I might get a little irritable for a wee bit too. Hats off to your mama!

 

Poor reporting, bad logic, connecting dots that are not connected.

 

1) Statistics show that most parents spank.

 

2) The article assumes that without spanking, the parent doesn't have discipline and gets overwhelmed, and yells "instead".

 

It's the same (flawed) logic I've seen in spanking discussions on the net. "I'd rather a swat on the bottom than screaming."

 

Those are NOT the choices.

 

The article misrepresents parents in general and patronizes.

 

The issue, IMO, with parenting is the presense of an over-punitive or permissive setting. Overly punitive/adversarial parents have developmentally inappropriate expectations and believe punishment will extinguish behavior. Permissive parents expect children will effectively grow out of stages. Both are wrong. Permissive parents often explode periodically into spanking, yelling, or other ineffective responses. Punitive parents aren't bad because of the specific techniques used (spanking, time outs, raising voice) but the frequency, motives behind and the tone created by their use.

 

The article is poor and fails to address the real issues involved in quality (or not) parenting.

1. love the new pic..you look lovely

2. :iagree: I didn't find the article to be well written or very factual. Not that I doubt a lot of people yell, but the comparisons and conclusions seemed very, well, made up.

[EKS]

I just recently (as in about 6 weeks ago) consciously and drastically cut down on the yelling thing. The strange thing is that I'm not finding much to yell about anymore.

[Joanne]

My grandfather physically abused my father so my father swore to never lay a hand on us...so we were verbally and emotionally abused. I was berated my whole life. I think I would prefer to be abused physically because at least I could tell the police and they could get him out of my life. I know that's horrible to say, but that's kinda how I feel.

 

So, being berated was ingrained into my life and it takes all I have not to do the same. Abuse begets abuse. If it's all you know...

 

Thankfully my dh keeps me in check. Lots of prayer, Lots of breathing, lots of prayer, lots of breathing...

 

I try to turn away my wrath with a gentle answer and keep in mind to be slow to anger and slow to speak...it's a minute-by-minute struggle but I really want to break the cycle!

 

I wish we could take "emotional" or "verbal" away when we describe abuse. When we use the term abuse, culturally, we assume physical. So we add "emotional" or "verbal" as descriptors but what it does is minimize it as abuse and serves to make it seem less awful, less dramatic.

 

How incredible you are aware, and breaking the cycle.

 

What your Dad did was not recover and change; he just chose another abuse.

[LauraGB]

I'm a yeller. And I don't feel guilty about it one bit. If I didn't yell, my kids wouldn't hear a word I said.

 

I don't spank. And its not as if I'm yelling obscenities at them or telling them I hate them, for crying out loud.

 

I am the parent. I reserve the right to yell if it needs to be done.

[Amber in AUS]

Interesting thanks for sharing. I do try not to yell at my kids but when i am very tired and run down it can get the better of me.

[Joanne]

I'm a yeller. And I don't feel guilty about it one bit. If I didn't yell, my kids wouldn't hear a word I said.

 

I don't spank. And its not as if I'm yelling obscenities at them or telling them I hate them, for crying out loud.

 

I am the parent. I reserve the right to yell if it needs to be done.

 

I used to yell a lot. A dear, dear and honest friend in AZ told me once that if I didn't stop yelling at my kids, she couldn't come visit anymore as it reminded her of her own childhood.

 

Yelling is hitting with words. Some people-some children- react very deeply to yelling. Sometimes even kids who seem ok or used to it.

 

I do still yell, but I don't defend it as a good, acceptable or decent parenting tool. I find that when I yell "too much", my kids hear *less*, not more and the decibel has to increase because they become mommy deaf.

 

I've discovered most kids, of all the ages I've been through, respond to consistent, modulated, boring, eye contacted follow through. I find I yell more when I am not willing to guide the child to the book, door or go upstairs to see if the bed is made.

[LibraryLover]

From todays New York Times.

 

It struck a chord with me as my mother was a major yeller when I was growing up. History does not repeat itself. There is no yelling aloud in my house.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/22/fashion/22yell.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=screaming&st=cse

 

That's sad.

 

I can't say that is what happens here. No days are perfect, but this isn't our family.

[LauraGB]

I used to yell a lot. A dear, dear and honest friend in AZ told me once that if I didn't stop yelling at my kids, she couldn't come visit anymore as it reminded her of her own childhood.

 

 

I wouldn't dream of embarassing my children in front of someone.

 

But you can bet if they do something that would make any other parent spank thier kids, they'll hear certainly hear about it when they got home. And it would definitely be loud enough to get my point across.

 

The mother in the article may have a different definition of yelling that might make her feel guilty. Mine is an emotionally charged vocal pitch, not a verbal "slap" or verbal abuse.

[IsabelC]

I find it very difficult to avoid yelling at my children. I don't think it's a good thing, but I do it anyway:(

 

I am reminded of something I read some years ago. The question was something like "You are feeding Mary. As you try to spoon the mush into her mouth, she shouts at you, wriggles and pushes the spoon away, spilling pureed food everywhere. How do you react?" A lot of people replied that they would smack her. But when they were informed that Mary is a frail 85 year old woman with no teeth and suffering from dementia, nobody suggested a smack.

 

I think yelling and spanking both reflect the way that most of society does not see children as fully human. Many things that would be considered abuse if done to an elder are considered good parenting when done to a child or baby.

 

Some people punish children in various ways because they have made a considered choice that this is good for the child. But other times people say, "well I don't wan t to be yelling/smacking but I can't help it because he pushes my buttons / asks for it / is so infuriating. If that's the case, how come we don't react that way when another adult provokes us? I can very politely tell a telemarketer I'm not interested in her sales pitch, so I should be able to politely tell my 4yo that her actions are unacceptable, shouldn't I? :confused:

[Joanne]

I wouldn't dream of embarassing my children in front of someone.

 

But you can bet if they do something that would make any other parent spank thier kids, they'll hear certainly hear about it when they got home. And it would definitely be loud enough to get my point across.

 

The mother in the article may have a different definition of yelling that might make her feel guilty. Mine is an emotionally charged vocal pitch, not a verbal "slap" or verbal abuse.

 

In my parenting opinion, if it seems to require something as dramatic as spanking, yelling, etc, it needs to be addressed in the moment.

 

I hear what you are saying about your yelling. I do know, however, that a significant amount of people experience a raised voice as an attack regardess. I do not assume verbal slaps or abuse when I mention being against yelling.

 

Just like spanking is spanking and not abuse, I believe yelling is yelling. Abuse is abuse.

 

I still believe yelling AS a parenting tool is a poor one.

 

It does, however, have appropriate effectiveness when used very sparingly and in danger situations or glaring social situations that require intervention before you can get to the child.

[LibraryLover]

What would make a parent yell? My boiling points are clear. A teen ager is pushing buttons....I would say I have yelled there.

 

But for littles? I can't think of a time I have yelled at babies or toddlers. I can't think of what would make me yell at a 10 yr old.

 

Teeth brushing doesn't make me yell, food doesn't make me yell, when to go to bed doesn't make me yell...back-talking does upset me, I admit that. But only certain personalities bring that out. I have never yelled at my 17 yr old dd, fi. And my 10 yr old is so easy- going...to yell at her would be to melt her.

 

I did once have a total showdown with my now 20 yr old when I thought he had lied to me. :confused: That was a dark day, but it turned out fine. I had jumped the gun.

[LibraryLover]

I find it very difficult to avoid yelling at my children. I don't think it's a good thing, but I do it anyway:(

 

I am reminded of something I read some years ago. The question was something like "You are feeding Mary. As you try to spoon the mush into her mouth, she shouts at you, wriggles and pushes the spoon away, spilling pureed food everywhere. How do you react?" A lot of people replied that they would smack her. But when they were informed that Mary is a frail 85 year old woman with no teeth and suffering from dementia, nobody suggested a smack.

 

I think yelling and spanking both reflect the way that most of society does not see children as fully human. Many things that would be considered abuse if done to an elder are considered good parenting when done to a child or baby.

:confused:

 

Exactly.

 

People see babies as entities needing to be controlled. I can't even imagine such an attitude, although I know it it exists.

 

Why would anyone smack or get upset with a baby for eating or not eating? That's a million times sick.

[LibraryLover]

I think we have all yelled when we wished we had not.

 

But doesn't the child's face snap us back? Anytime I think I have crossed a line, I look at the wide eyes of my child/children. That always snaps me back fairly quickly.

[Kanga]

I come from a family of yellers. However, we yell *all the time*! My husband is always saying "why are you yelling?" And I say "I'm not yelling, I'm just expressing emotion!" We have loud voices to begin with, that doesn't help (a speech therapist told my aunt it is due to our very high palates).

 

The upside of this? When we were in high school we would come home and say "the band director was so upset, he started yelling at everyone, hit his music stand and paper clips flew everywhere, it was hilarious!" While my mom's friends had kids who came home and cried. My mom felt our family had better prepared us for the world.

:lol::lol::lol:

[IsabelC]

I'm a yeller. And I don't feel guilty about it one bit. If I didn't yell, my kids wouldn't hear a word I said.

 

I don't spank. And its not as if I'm yelling obscenities at them or telling them I hate them, for crying out loud.

 

I am the parent. I reserve the right to yell if it needs to be done.

 

I think this bit covers what you're saying:

"If a parent is simply loud, he says, the effect is minimal. But if the tone connotes anger, insult or sarcasm, it can be perceived as a sign of rejection."

[Perry]

From the article:

This is so the issue right now. As parents understand that it’s not socially acceptable to spank children, they are at a loss for what they can do. They resort to reminding, nagging, timeout, counting 1-2-3 and quickly realize that those strategies don’t work to change behavior.

 

I have to disagree with this. I used 1-2-3- Magic with my very challenging son and found it extremely effective. Counting doesn't work if there aren't consequences though.

[LauraGB]

I think this bit covers what you're saying:

"If a parent is simply loud, he says, the effect is minimal. But if the tone connotes anger, insult or sarcasm, it can be perceived as a sign of rejection."

 

"can be perceived as a sign of rejection" ... or in the case of my kids "oh no, I did something seriously wrong."

 

I've heard parents who yell at thier kids who should be downright ashamed of themselves. I've heard parents say such filthy, horrible, disgusting, hateful things to thier children that made me remove my own children from the situation and keep in contact with that family just to be sure those children were safe (and, I'm quite certain the damage is severe and long lasting in one of the situations, which is absolutely heartbreaking).

 

There is a difference between yelling and yelling. I just yell. And only when the situation warrants it. And nothing that will scar my children. The bit about not being heard unless I yelled was really a bit tongue in cheek. You all made me think a bit (as the collective You do sometimes), so I asked them if they felt rejected when I yell. They both looked at each other all confused-like, and laughed, then went back to playing cards.:tongue_smilie:

[LibraryLover]

This article is still about the assumption that parenting needs to be disrespectful to children, and without such disrespect children do not 'obey/listen', and I disagree more than I can say. Maybe there is parenting paradigm that is about respect, and where children are not out to to 'disobey' or get away with anything.

[IsabelC]

This article is still about the assumption that parenting needs to be disrespectful to children, and without such disrespect children do not 'obey/listen', and I disagree more than I can say. Maybe there is parenting paradigm that is about respect, and where children are not out to to 'disobey' or get away with anything.

If you are looking for that kind of paradigm, you would probably like Alfie Kohn's book Unconditional Parenting.

 

I also noticed the article's assumptions. Eg it assumes that smacking was effective, when in fact there has never been even 1 single piece of research showing any positive effects for smacking.

[Joanne]

This article is still about the assumption that parenting needs to be disrespectful to children, and without such disrespect children do not 'obey/listen', and I disagree more than I can say. Maybe there is parenting paradigm that is about respect, and where children are not out to to 'disobey' or get away with anything.

 

Yes. And that paradigm does exist. It's often an amalgam of "positive parenting" authors, writers, thinker and leaders, although some parents embrace one author over another.

 

I don't assume the "tug of war", "battle", "battle of wills", "assumption of negative intent" or "willfullness" in parenting dilemmas and challenges.

[Reya]

We do "long distance homeschooling" from room to room, so yeah, there's yelling. Also, when he goes too ADD, sometimes I LITERALLY jump up and down, wave my arms, and shout for his attention--sometimes, it's the only way to break through the wall of noise--that he's generating both physically and mentally!

 

We bark orders like a drill sergeant here on occasion. That, timers, and checklists are the only things that get DS MOVING.

[Reya]

The mother in the article may have a different definition of yelling that might make her feel guilty. Mine is an emotionally charged vocal pitch, not a verbal "slap" or verbal abuse.

 

And mine is just "loud"!

[LibraryLover]

If you are looking for that kind of paradigm, you would probably like Alfie Kohn's book Unconditional Parenting.

 

I also noticed the article's assumptions. Eg it assumes that smacking was effective, when in fact there has never been even 1 single piece of research showing any positive effects for smacking.

 

 

I am not a huge fan of Kohn, although I read that books several years ago. Kohn doesn't speak to me. Some of his stuff makes sense, but to me, he's not in the trenches of parenting. His kids attend school, for one. I don't get where he can talk about no hw, no rules etc,, when the school his kids attend have hw and rules. I've heard him speak and he is not inspiring. He's more of an academic/dreamer/writer. I always look for more from him...but ok, not a fan. lol Not that there isn't something there, there is. It just doesn't feel real.

[LibraryLover]

Yes. And that paradigm does exist. It's often an amalgam of "positive parenting" authors, writers, thinker and leaders, although some parents embrace one author over another.

 

I don't assume the "tug of war", "battle", "battle of wills", "assumption of negative intent" or "willfullness" in parenting dilemmas and challenges.

 

I have yet to find eta *many* positive parenting writers who speak to me. But I know I hate the disresepct i hear. From the horrible Mom Song to this.

Edited October 23, 2009 by LibraryLover