Would this irritate you?

[staceyobu]

I was looking at joining the largest local homeschool group. Basically, there is a line for the "head of household" to sign off giving permission for the wife to join.

 

I consider myself a pretty conservative Christian type. I just find it a little irritating that my husband has to sign off on something that he will never go to or have anything to do with. It's basically so I can go to a support group meeting once a month.

 

It's not that I disagree with the submissive wife thing. I just don't like the idea of showing up with a form and being like "okay... here's my permission slip from my husband. Can I join now?"

 

There's no line for me to sign either. And I'd be the one actually joining!

[merylvdm]

Wow - that sounds real real odd. I don't think I would be irritated - scared more likely. Sounds cultish. And I too am very conservative and have no problem with my husband being head of the house - but that is going WAY too far.

Are there other groups you can join?

[Pink Fairy]

Yes, it would. It's very condescending, making the husband-wife relationship seem more like a parent-child relationship.

[Mommyof4ks]

Hmmm...I find that odd too as a fellow conservative Christian. Our group has both the husband and wife sign the form. My dh does not go to anything for the group either.

[BikeBookBread]

Is this the "major" Christian homeschool group in your area? Could you ask some current members about it? It seems odd to me, as well, and I have no problem with my DH being the head of the household...but a permission slip? :confused:

[staceyobu]

Is this the "major" Christian homeschool group in your area? Could you ask some current members about it? It seems odd to me, as well, and I have no problem with my DH being the head of the household...but a permission slip? :confused:

 

Well... it's just the application form... with a place for DH to sign off approving. I just *feel* like it's permission slip-ish. Maybe I made it sound worse than it is in my original post.

[wagnfun]

Yes, it would. It's very condescending, making the husband-wife relationship seem more like a parent-child relationship.

 

HA not only do I agree with this, if I were to join, I would have to sign my hubbys name. In 14 years of marriage I dont think he has signed his name to anything.

 

Actually I think hed get a kick out of signing that form. I'm pretty sure I wouldnt last long in the group though.... :tongue_smilie:

[Scuff]

It sure does feel like a permission slip! I would not like that at all! I'm a grown adult woman, not a child.

[OnTheBrink]

[sarcasm] Well, you know, there are a LOT of women out there, subversively signing their kids up for homeschool groups behind their husband's backs. Taking them on field trips, feeding them healthy lunches, all under his nose, but without his knowledge. It's time to crack down on these women and keep them in line! They shouldn't join if their husbands don't expressly allow them. After all, they obviously can't be trusted by their husbands to decide that the children would benefit from the group, and the group leaders certainly can't trust that the women are there with their husband's support and approval. Good on them for taking a stand! [/sarcasm]

[Christy B]

Um, yeah. That would irritate me.

 

In fact, it would irritate me enough that I wouldn't join. I don't think my kids and I would get along very well with other moms and kids who needed or were willing to ask for permission to join a homeschool group.

[ConnieB]

Well, neither hubby nor I advocates of the submissive wife lifestyle.....he has often joked we'd never survive if he had to make all decisions I do....he is relieved that I take them on and he rarely even wants to know about them. He also jokes that if I ever die he's in big trouble because he has no clue where we even bank! But it's not because I'm a totally domineering person, just that he doesn't care...so long as the bills get paid, he can ask for and get pocket money from me, and if he wants to splurge on something he can. We do talk about the major decisions, but only because it will affect both of us, so we feel we both need to have some say in decisions like that. We see both of us as the head of the household.....so honestly, I'd probably sign the form as head of household...with my own name and everything. Of course, that might cause more trouble than leaving the signature line blank, lol.

 

Of course, I also predict that if that's a requirement to join that I'd probably quickly find that it's the least of my worries about that group being a good fit for me. But then, although I consider myself a good Christian, I also find that those groups that require you to sign a faith statement rarely would work for me....I don't do well being told someone else knows what is best for me and how I should act. I consider that an issue for my Lord myself and my family, not friends or acquaintances.

 

Is there a trial period where you could attend and get to meet some of the members and see whether your beliefs/feelings/needs would fit into the group? Or do you know some members well enough to express your concerns about how that form made you feel and whether this might be indicative of how the group works?

[HRAAB]

You know, I don't think dh would sign it. He things I'm a big girl now and can sign things on my own.

 

Seriously, I have never heard of such a thing. That would be one huge red flat for me.

 

Janet

[Harriet Vane]

[sarcasm] Well, you know, there are a LOT of women out there, subversively signing their kids up for homeschool groups behind their husband's backs. Taking them on field trips, feeding them healthy lunches, all under his nose, but without his knowledge. It's time to crack down on these women and keep them in line! They shouldn't join if their husbands don't expressly allow them. After all, they obviously can't be trusted by their husbands to decide that the children would benefit from the group, and the group leaders certainly can't trust that the women are there with their husband's support and approval. Good on them for taking a stand! [/sarcasm]

 

Well said. Right there with ya. :cheers2:

[Annabelle's Mom]

While it's not seen often, I don't think it's necessarily an outrageous or cult-ish issue. There are some faiths which hold to very strict Biblical standards, one of which is that the husband literally is the patriarch of the family. I'm LDS (Mormon) and in our Church it is very common before calling a married woman to a position to discuss it with the husband to be sure it will not conflict with their family or home issues. (There have been times I've really wished my husband would object to me being asked to do certain responsibilities, especially when it's something I abhor, such as being a scouting leader.) I don't see it as a permission thing as much as it is recognizing that the family is a unit and not to be interferred with. There really are women who overextend themselves and it's really not a bad thing to have the husband aware.

 

I get tickled sometimes when I get mail from ABeka. I have always done ordering in my own name, but orders and mail always comes addressed to my husband. I'm guessing the ABeka folks are somewhat of the same mind.

 

Linda

[Word Nerd]

That would be enough for me to find a different group. It's pretty safe to assume that it wouldn't be a good fit for me.

Edited September 10, 2009 by WordGirl

[Guest janainaz]

If this is truly the thinking of this group, I would have to opt out and look for another group. I simply would not fit in.

[keptwoman]

We see both of us as the head of the household.....so honestly, I'd probably sign the form as head of household...with my own name and everything. Of course, that might cause more trouble than leaving the signature line blank, lol.

I'd do the same.

[Lovedtodeath]

I was looking at joining the largest local homeschool group. Basically, there is a line for the "head of household" to sign off giving permission for the wife to join.

 

I consider myself a pretty conservative Christian type. I just find it a little irritating that my husband has to sign off on something that he will never go to or have anything to do with. It's basically so I can go to a support group meeting once a month.

 

It's not that I disagree with the submissive wife thing. I just don't like the idea of showing up with a form and being like "okay... here's my permission slip from my husband. Can I join now?"

 

There's no line for me to sign either. And I'd be the one actually joining!

If the line says "head of household" then sign it yourself.:001_huh:

 

LOL! I just read the other responses. I am a little slow on the draw. What's funny is that I was the one in the "submission" thread presenting my view of why a husband is the head of his wife. On a homeschool group form though? I am in charge of homeschooling. ;)

Edited September 10, 2009 by Lovedtodeath

[lionfamily1999]

I wonder if it's being read into too much? I mean, maybe they didn't want to say parent or guardian???

 

It just seems odd that the largest hs group would also require permission from the head of household (specifically).

[Laurie4b]

[sarcasm] Well, you know, there are a LOT of women out there, subversively signing their kids up for homeschool groups behind their husband's backs. Taking them on field trips, feeding them healthy lunches, all under his nose, but without his knowledge. It's time to crack down on these women and keep them in line! They shouldn't join if their husbands don't expressly allow them. After all, they obviously can't be trusted by their husbands to decide that the children would benefit from the group, and the group leaders certainly can't trust that the women are there with their husband's support and approval. Good on them for taking a stand! [/sarcasm]

 

:tongue_smilie:

[Lovedtodeath]

 

I wonder if it's being read into too much? I mean, maybe they didn't want to say parent or guardian???

I thought of that too. Perhaps it doesn't have that meaning. If it was a secular group I would assume they meant a parent to sign there, so that may be all it is in this case too.

[fivetails]

Can you type it out here exactly as written on the form? *curious*

[2cents]

Based on that alone, I wouldn't join that coop. My dh and I don't do the submissive thing. We're a team. He probably wouldn't want to sign anything like that based on the fact that he would find it insulting and would think I'd lost my mind for wanting to join a group that sounded so bizarre. We run from coops that sound the least bit crazy or cultish.

[Word Nerd]

The OP seemed pretty clear about what the line was for, and I trust that she was interpreting it correctly. There's a big push for patriarchy and men "taking back" their control of home education in some homeschooling circles. I don't doubt for a moment that there are homeschool groups taking stances like this.

[myfunnybunch]

Basically, there is a line for the "head of household" to sign off giving permission for the wife to join.

 

Ew.

 

Cat

[Chris in VA]

I think I'd be tempted to turn it in unsigned, then, if confronted, say something like, "Are you serious? My husband fully supports my homeschooling, but didn't feel he needed to sign it. After all, I'm an adult, not a child who needs a permission slip from her Daddy."

[ThatCyndiGirl]

That would be enough for me to find a different group. It's pretty safe to assume that it wouldn't be a good fit for me.

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

 

 

no WAY would I sign something like that. (or, rather, no way would I beg my husband for PERMISSION to join such a group!) yuck. :glare:

[lionfamily1999]

The OP seemed pretty clear about what the line was for, and I trust that she was interpreting it correctly. There's a big push for patriarchy and men "taking back" their control of home education in some homeschooling circles. I don't doubt for a moment that there are homeschool groups taking stances like this.

It's the size of the group that makes me wonder. I can't imagine that many people willing to make that concession.

[phathui5]

How is it worded?

[elegantlion]

HA not only do I agree with this, if I were to join, I would have to sign my hubbys name. In 14 years of marriage I dont think he has signed his name to anything.

 

Actually I think hed get a kick out of signing that form. I'm pretty sure I wouldnt last long in the group though.... :tongue_smilie:

 

:iagree:

 

[sarcasm] Well, you know, there are a LOT of women out there, subversively signing their kids up for homeschool groups behind their husband's backs. Taking them on field trips, feeding them healthy lunches, all under his nose, but without his knowledge. It's time to crack down on these women and keep them in line! They shouldn't join if their husbands don't expressly allow them. After all, they obviously can't be trusted by their husbands to decide that the children would benefit from the group, and the group leaders certainly can't trust that the women are there with their husband's support and approval. Good on them for taking a stand! [/sarcasm]

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[LauraGB]

I was looking at joining the largest local homeschool group. QUOTE]

 

Um...I would consider maybe checking into the 2nd largest and bypassing this one...or even the little one. Discussing w/my dh decisions regarding our dc is one thing, but being required to provide proof of said discussion to a group of current strangers is entirely another.

[Aunty Social]

I just read the op to my dh. His respone?

 

"Huh. That's weird."

 

And we are also pretty conservative Christian types.

[Denisemomof4]

[sarcasm] Well, you know, there are a LOT of women out there, subversively signing their kids up for homeschool groups behind their husband's backs. Taking them on field trips, feeding them healthy lunches, all under his nose, but without his knowledge. It's time to crack down on these women and keep them in line! They shouldn't join if their husbands don't expressly allow them. After all, they obviously can't be trusted by their husbands to decide that the children would benefit from the group, and the group leaders certainly can't trust that the women are there with their husband's support and approval. Good on them for taking a stand! [/sarcasm]

 

 

Oh how AWFUL!!! Are you SERIOUS? Does this REALLY go on??? :svengo:

 

In all honesty, I run everything by dh because he has input and a mindset that I don't. He can usually tell when I'm putting myself over the top before I do. I listen to his input but ultimately will make the decision myself, UNLESS he's REALLY against it...... which I don't think has ever happened.

 

Likewise, he runs everything by me and truly takes my input as important as his own, and I have different value to add to the situation, too.

 

It's all about teamwork, and we work superbly as a team.

 

But to get his SIGNED PERMISSION? No, I'd not be ok with that. I'm not his child.

[st_claire]

That is outrageous! You are not his property. You don't need permission to do things in life.

[staceyobu]

It is a Christian organization.

 

The application asks for general info (name, phone number, kids, ages, email). Then has a line that states "Father/Head of Household Signature_________ Date_______".

 

I'm assuming they want the dad's signature. Especially after reading this in the constitution...

 

1. Officers shall be men. The reason for this is that the organization is composed of homeschooling families over which the men are to provide the leadership according to Scripture. *****, INC. is an extension of the home and should mirror the home in this respect.

 

And this in their statement of faith... "We understand family to mean a male and female parent with one or more children, all related by blood (Gen. 1:26-28), though we realize the exception of a single parent and adopted children (Jam. 1:27)."

 

 

Funnily... I showed the form to DH and asked him if he saw anything out of place. He caught a misspelled word. I asked him about the HOH thing... he just said "well... they probably assume the mom is on board and just want to make sure the dad is too". Maybe I overreacted? It seems weird to me they don't have female officers either. I went and heard a speaker with this group and they said "our president's wife put all this together". Hmmm.

[staceyobu]

It's the size of the group that makes me wonder. I can't imagine that many people willing to make that concession.

 

I do live in a relatively small town in the Bible belt. However, I am sorta surprised...

[Mrs Mungo]

Um, yeah. That would irritate me.

 

In fact, it would irritate me enough that I wouldn't join. I don't think my kids and I would get along very well with other moms and kids who needed or were willing to ask for permission to join a homeschool group.

 

I agree. I have not joined certain groups because of stuff like this. I *know*, eventually, it's not going to work out.

[sunshine]

yes that would super irritate me. And I am on the super conservative bordering on weird side.

[Mrs Mungo]

I was looking at joining the largest local homeschool group.

 

Um...I would consider maybe checking into the 2nd largest and bypassing this one...or even the little one. Discussing w/my dh decisions regarding our dc is one thing, but being required to provide proof of said discussion to a group of current strangers is entirely another.

 

I agree. I have really liked small groups better than big groups in some ways.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

yes that would super irritate me. And I am on the super conservative bordering on weird side.

:lol: Hiya!

[Dirtroad]

Find another group!;)

[Garga]

It is a Christian organization.

 

The application asks for general info (name, phone number, kids, ages, email). Then has a line that states "Father/Head of Household Signature_________ Date_______".

 

I'm assuming they want the dad's signature. Especially after reading this in the constitution...

 

1. Officers shall be men. The reason for this is that the organization is composed of homeschooling families over which the men are to provide the leadership according to Scripture. *****, INC. is an extension of the home and should mirror the home in this respect.

 

And this in their statement of faith... "We understand family to mean a male and female parent with one or more children, all related by blood (Gen. 1:26-28), though we realize the exception of a single parent and adopted children (Jam. 1:27)."

 

 

Funnily... I showed the form to DH and asked him if he saw anything out of place. He caught a misspelled word. I asked him about the HOH thing... he just said "well... they probably assume the mom is on board and just want to make sure the dad is too". Maybe I overreacted? It seems weird to me they don't have female officers either. I went and heard a speaker with this group and they said "our president's wife put all this together". Hmmm.

 

This group wouldn't work for me. Esp how the officers are men. Because, honestly, the men in homeschooling families generally do not have enough knowledge of how homeschooling actually works. They know in theory, or have heard from their wives, but have little to no first hand experience.

 

Now, if this were a group of men who do the actually homeschooling and the actually research of materials and different educational philosophies, then I could (sort of) understand it.

 

This group would bug me too much. But I agree with others--find some people actually in the group and see what they're like. Perhaps this stuff is on the form and in their paperwork, but isn't actually adhered to.

 

Wait--I think I might change my mind. If the men are all officers, are they really the ones doing all the legwork to keep the group running? If they are, then maybe it's a great group to join. You can just sit back and let someone else handle all the details for a change. (Except there's the clue that the president's wife had to create and type up the form. Shouldn't the male secretary be doing that??)

[LauraGB]

It is a Christian organization.

 

The application asks for general info (name, phone number, kids, ages, email). Then has a line that states "Father/Head of Household Signature_________ Date_______".

 

I'm assuming they want the dad's signature. Especially after reading this in the constitution...

 

1. Officers shall be men. The reason for this is that the organization is composed of homeschooling families over which the men are to provide the leadership according to Scripture. *****, INC. is an extension of the home and should mirror the home in this respect.

 

And this in their statement of faith... "We understand family to mean a male and female parent with one or more children, all related by blood (Gen. 1:26-28), though we realize the exception of a single parent and adopted children (Jam. 1:27)."

 

 

Funnily... I showed the form to DH and asked him if he saw anything out of place. He caught a misspelled word. I asked him about the HOH thing... he just said "well... they probably assume the mom is on board and just want to make sure the dad is too". Maybe I overreacted? It seems weird to me they don't have female officers either. I went and heard a speaker with this group and they said "our president's wife put all this together". Hmmm.

 

Based on #1, I would skip this group if it already makes you uncomfortable - it will never work out for you. If it were just the "Father/Head of Household" line, I think I could keep my sense of humor in tact and just cross out Head Of Household, since, at least in our household, it would be my signature anyway (no matter whose name I chose to write there ;)). No big deal. The rest of the statement really would not be a good fit for the long run...for me, anyway - and it sounds the same for you.

 

There are other groups.

[ConnieB]

While it's not seen often' date=' I don't think it's necessarily an outrageous or cult-ish issue. There are some faiths which hold to very strict Biblical standards, one of which is that the husband literally is the patriarch of the family. I'm LDS (Mormon) and in our Church it is very common before calling a married woman to a position to discuss it with the husband to be sure it will not conflict with their family or home issues. (There have been times I've really wished my husband would object to me being asked to do certain responsibilities, especially when it's something I abhor, such as being a scouting leader.) I don't see it as a permission thing as much as it is recognizing that the family is a unit and not to be interferred with. There really are women who overextend themselves and it's really not a bad thing to have the husband aware.

 

I get tickled sometimes when I get mail from ABeka. I have always done ordering in my own name, but orders and mail always comes addressed to my husband. I'm guessing the ABeka folks are somewhat of the same mind.

 

Linda[/quote']

 

See, these are decisions that my DH and I would make together....can I handle the extra responsibility and still do my other responsibilities well. Same if he is asked to volunteer for something, we discuss if it's a good fit for him and our family. Probably more so for him, simply because he has sooo little time with us as a family as it is because of his work schedule, that he tends to not volunteer for anything long term....he's first in line for a single day project or need, but more than that and he just can't....taking away from family time but also because he travels so much. But I also manage my time so that I don't do things in the evenings or weekends, as that's family time. THe rest of the time I will if I can find the time and the kids are involved as well, so they aren't inconvenienced by it....but everyone at church knows if it involves evening/weekends my answer is 99.9% of the time sorry, no.

 

I know it's the Morman way and hey, that's probably why I'd never make it as a Morman....but if it truly is about being sure that the volunteer doesn't overcommitt, shouldn't they also be asking your permission before allowing DH to volunteer? After all his committment to the family would also be very valuable...and if he's like my DH, his time is even more precious than mine because he's away at work more than he's home already....like most working outside the home husbands.

 

I'm not really arguing, or expecting a response, it's more a rhetorical question....if it's good for the goose it's good for gander kind of thing. And I know it's just a difference between how your household works and mine....I'm happy in mine and you probably are too, so it's all good. But I'm often curious why his opinion or wishes would be more important than the wife's. I know at some point in some decisions, one person has to be the final say....but most of our marriage decisions aren't that way and those that are, fluctuate between who gets final say. Kids, me...finances, me....hmmm, what does he get the final say in? Gotta go ask him, lol. :lol:

[elizabeth]

Irritate? I would hand them a copy of the 14th and 19th amendment with a personal copy of the US Constitution. No way . No how. Not ever.

[Carol in Cal.]

Infuriate would be a BETTER word. Aggravate? Annoy? Disturb? Nope, infuriate would be the one!

[astrid]

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

 

There is NO WAY ON EARTH I would ever, ever join a group like that.

Tip of the iceberg, I say.

 

 

astrid

[QueenCat]

Wow! I just can't even imagine such a thing. And I live deep in the heart of the Bible Belt. We're Christians but I don't need my dh to sign a permission slip for me! He'd think I'd lost my mind if I presented him with such a thing.

 

 

 

I was looking at joining the largest local homeschool group. Basically, there is a line for the "head of household" to sign off giving permission for the wife to join.

 

I consider myself a pretty conservative Christian type. I just find it a little irritating that my husband has to sign off on something that he will never go to or have anything to do with. It's basically so I can go to a support group meeting once a month.

 

It's not that I disagree with the submissive wife thing. I just don't like the idea of showing up with a form and being like "okay... here's my permission slip from my husband. Can I join now?"

 

There's no line for me to sign either. And I'd be the one actually joining!

[sassenach]

[sarcasm] Well, you know, there are a LOT of women out there, subversively signing their kids up for homeschool groups behind their husband's backs. Taking them on field trips, feeding them healthy lunches, all under his nose, but without his knowledge. It's time to crack down on these women and keep them in line! They shouldn't join if their husbands don't expressly allow them. After all, they obviously can't be trusted by their husbands to decide that the children would benefit from the group, and the group leaders certainly can't trust that the women are there with their husband's support and approval. Good on them for taking a stand! [/sarcasm]

 

:lol::lol: Dang I miss reps.

[Slartibartfast]

I can't imagine.

 

I just cannot imagine. I am kind of a social idiot and I just picture myself being, "Oh HAHAHAHA it is too funny but your form looks like you expect men to give permission! BWHAHAA What sort of crazy does that anyways?? So I was just letting you know because you might want to change that."

 

 

 

"....oh."

 

 

 

 

"..."