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My 4.5 year old son just started to read and it was THEN that I really realized how he sounds when he speaks. (I can't believe I didn't realize it before this....) He sounds like this:

 

When saying the word yellow it comes out as "lellow" (doesn't say the Y sound)

 

When saying his own name, Jake, it comes out as "Take" (doesn't say the J sound)

 

When saying the word blue, it comes out as "boo" (doesn't say the L sound)

 

When saying the word brown, it comes out as "bown" (doesn't say the R sound)

 

If he were going away to school he wouldn't even enter kindegarten until the year after next as his birthday is in January. A friend (and co-worker) who just graduated from a Master's in School Psychology program was over last weekend and I was musing that, "he just started reading this week and I can't believe I didn't notice the sounds that he doens't say until this week, what do you think?" and she said, "I would have him evaluated".

 

Tears welled up in my eyes. I couldn't help it. When he was 2 we had him evaluated because he wasn't talking yet. He had a hearing test, which he passed with flying colours and we were about to schedule the next test when he started talking. He hasn't stopped since. Big vocabulary, loves books, loves to read.

 

Do you see this as a hinderance? Would you jump to get him evaluated or would you take a wait-and-see approach?

 

Please be kind. I have not only a genetic legacy of guilt, but I seemed to have inadvertantly majored in it in college, as well. My first thought was, "I didn't breastfeed him long enough!" :001_rolleyes:

 

(When he was 9 months old I discovered that I was pregnant with his surprise baby sister!......exactly three days after giving away all of my maternity clothes. Our first two were created with the help of fertlity drugs so I had no idea that this could happen spontaneously.....)

 

But, I digress.

 

What says the hive?

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I have a friend who was a prof of early childhood before she retired and when I expressed very similar concerns, she gave me a chart that shows at what age ranges letter sounds normally are spoken correctly. My son was within range for all of them and, if I recall the info correctly, yours is as well.

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I would have him evaluated.

 

My own 7 yo DD was supposed to grow out of this, and she hasn't. She is finally in speech therapy at a university clinic (after arguing with our school district, who was telling us first that she would grow out of it and second that they wanted a full IEP and her in school to do the therapy). Our first eval was at 2 when she wasn't talking. We had it done again at 4, and we were told she would grow out of it. We started the process all over again at 6. What is normal at 2 or 4 will not be normal at 6, but a thorough evaluation done by an independent therapist is going to tell you either way. I wish we hadn't waited so long and had just gone for a private evaluation and therapy before now, because other kids are noticing and making fun of her. And it is harder the older she has been, because some of it is habit now.

 

Look at it this way. If you get another evaluation, the worst they can say is that he needs the therapy. Otherwise, you will at least feel better for having checked it out and you won't continue to worry about it or be sensitive when it comes up.

 

ETA: It is not only which mispronunciations are being made but WHY they are being made that matters, and you can't tell that by just looking at the charts. Which I only say because I spent two years looking at the charts and waiting for the magic growing out of it to happen, and I really wish I hadn't. Your situation may be very different.

 

Best wishes!

Edited by Asenik
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/l/ and /r/ sounds aren't usually developed until age 7 and aren't delayed until age 7 1/2. Our speech therapist released my son from therapy with the suggestion that I bring him back if he wasn't saying his /r/ sounds by age 8. /j/ sounds are usually developed around age 4 but not delayed until about age 5.

 

It sounds to me like he's still within normal. The most I see you needing to do at this point, based on what you've described, is to work with him on his /j/ sounds. Have him watch your mouth, lips, teeth, and tongue carefully when you pronounce j words to help him see what he's suppose to do. Then practice lots of words and have him try to correct them when you hear them wrong in every day usage.

 

Here's a table I referred to.

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My son was the exact same way, no kidding. At 2 I worried he would never talk! At 3 he was hard to understand so I took him for an evaluation, but the school said he was fine (that was joke lol). I took him for a hearing test that he passed with flying colors. After talking with his ped though I decided not to pursue further testing at that time. At 4 he still had trouble, but by 5 he began to talk much better. He is over 5.5 now and his speech is much improved to the point that there are only a few words that are a problem.

 

His ped said that some sounds are not easy for kids to say until they are 7 years old, so it is not uncommon for kids to have some difficultly up until that point. My other two had no trouble at all and started talking 'correctly' by 2, but this one child had difficulty.

 

IMO I would just wait and see. We did repeat what our son said to show him how to say it properly. Not like, here son this is how you say it, but we simply would say something like, "You enjoyed going to the park?" after he said, 'I joyed going to te cark.' I don't know if that helped at all, but a few months later he began talking much better.

 

I have learned that just because a professional says something that does not make it true lol. We had a doctor miss a deadly disease, a neuropsychologist blame my parenting for something that a medication was doing to my son, and the list goes on. Relax, it will be ok!

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http://www.superstarspeech.com/articulation-sounds-chart.html Here is a link. He sounds like he is in the very normal range for his age.

 

I just wanted to say I ordered Super Star Speech for my ds5, and have been very happy with it. We've only done a few sessions but I already see a slight improvement. I got the package deal from CurrClick.com that includes all 3 books as an ebook for $27.

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My daughter had speech issues. I checked out "Teach me How to Say it Right" at my library. It goes through each sound and when a child is usually able to master it. It also teaches gentle ways to help improve speech. We also used Speechercize cds. (I got the cds at Rainbow Resources). Each sing a long song helps to improve a different sound. Both are gentle and helped with out making my dd feel as though something was wrong with her or lower her self confidence. She is speaking clearly now. (When she was 4 only I could understand her.)

 

Here is a link for the book at amazon

http://www.amazon.com/Teach-How-Say-Right-Articulation/dp/1572244038

 

and the cd

http://www.amazon.com/Speechercise-Musical-Workout-Your-Mouth/dp/B00028PW3A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1246661005&sr=8-1

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I would not give it much thought. My oldest had some of the weirdest speech patterns I have ever seen. He said pots for stop, (he did that for all words beginning with an S) Net pus guh, for let us go, and many others. So many friends tried to convince us that he needed speech therapy. We never did it. Around age 5 it started to click and he started talking "right". My middle never "baby talked", his brothers did, then grew out of it. If he is still saying lellow, etc... at 8 or later I might begin to think he needed evaluation, not at 4.5.

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Until very recently, L (now 3.5 yo) couldn't properly pronounce words that begin with two consonants. He pronounced /tr/ as /f/, for example, which was really bad, as he loved trucks. :glare: We have a family friend who is a speech therapist, and I mentioned this to her. (I also mentioned that my older 3 all had issues with the /y/ sound, using /l/ instead.) She nodded, and assured me it was perfectly normal. She also mentioned by what ages certain sounds should be acquired.

 

At this point, all 3 of of my older dc pronounce /y/ correctly (well, D gets it wrong every now and again when she's speaking quickly) and L's speech is much clearer, too. So...I add my vote to the "wait and see" folks. :D

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I've had kids with articulation errors--some outgrew, some needed help.

 

What's the big deal with having him evaluated? And so what if he needs speech therapy? It's not a huge disability, and even if it was, you get what you get when you have a child. Why feel guilty for something you can't control?

 

Now, if you had him evaluated and were told he needed help, but you disagreed with the evaluator, and refused, simply because you didn't want to face the fact that your son needed help, then bring out the guilt.

 

You aren't there. He's little. He has time to develop most of the sounds. I will say, tho, that it depends on why he is making the sounds the way he is. If it's just developmental, fine, but if it's habit or muscle weakness, the longer you wait, the longer therapy will take to correct the problem. You can't know by looking at him unless you know what to look for, and most of us untrained speech therapist mommies don't.

 

I'd just wait a bit, maybe until he's 5, then get an evaluation.

(I'm kinda a middle of the road person! lol) Be gentle with yourself and with him.

 

And congrats that he's reading! Wow!

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He's only 4 1/2. I wouldn't worry yet. Have you talked to him about it? DS used to do this and when he was about that age (or maybe a little older) DH talked to him about it. He practiced annunciating with him for a bit. They did that a few times and DS started practicing on his own. He was just fine before long. Practice with him a little. It might not take much to get him speaking correctly. And if not, then you know to get him evaluated. :grouphug:

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Is he reading the sounds he can't pronounce? If so, I wouldn't worry at this stage. If not, please get him evaluated.

 

My own middle son was slow to walk and talk and couldn't say many sounds at age 4. We kind of assumed academics wasn't going to be his thing... but upon the advice of a well meaning parent, we got him evaluated and found out he was extremely advanced for his age - on everything EXCEPT speaking (tested at age 7 for most other things). The evaluator told us he's a very intelligent boy and has a lot going on in his mind - he just can't tell them to us.

 

So, he started speech therapy - they told us more details, but it all boiled down in my mind to his brain not being wired correctly and needing to practice to get the development to happen (AND it's much easier to do this at a younger age).

 

He went to ps for kindergarten and 1st grade... and was in the lowest reading group for both. He was still in speech. His speech teacher told us that his lack of reading ability was connected to his lack of speech ability - and it was noticeable. The letters he couldn't say he also couldn't read. He could see 'was' on the same page three times and still not be able to either recognize it nor sound it out. We also couldn't work with him at home as he'd get so discouraged with himself that he'd start to cry (and we were NOT putting any pressure on him). The therapist told us to quit letting him try to read (though keep reading to him) as she wanted to keep his home life 100% happy and keep his work life at school.

 

In the latter part of 1st grade things started to click. By the end of 2nd grade he was in the top reading group - and he's never looked back. He has since always tested in the top 5% (many times higher) nationally on any math or reading test... he's 15 now.

 

I seriously shudder to think about what he could have lost had we not gotten professional intervention when he was young. His problem had a name and needed more guidance than we could give. That said, the therapist told us his 'issue' was unusual... so yours could indeed be normal - especially if he can read those sounds. Just sharing so you can see how similar (or different) your youngun is.

Edited by creekland
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I think most public schools will evaluate a child for speech issues free (often starting at 3 years old but it may vary by state or school district). Even if he is within the normal range, the speech therapist can give you ideas about what to do to improve his speech. Usually a child has to be significantly delayed for speech therapy. You can gain knowledge from an evaluation that you won't get anywhere else.

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My DD did the same thing. She just turned 5 and it's just in the last few months that she's started saying the Y in yellow, the R in world, etc. I wouldn't worry about it for another 1-1.5 years. Although I completely understand the knee-jerk reaction to freak out and feel guilty. :)

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A friend (and co-worker) who just graduated from a Master's in School Psychology program was over last weekend and I was musing that, "he just started reading this week and I can't believe I didn't notice the sounds that he doens't say until this week, what do you think?" and she said, "I would have him evaluated".

 

Tears welled up in my eyes. I couldn't help it. When he was 2 we had him evaluated because he wasn't talking yet. He had a hearing test, which he passed with flying colours and we were about to schedule the next test when he started talking. He hasn't stopped since. Big vocabulary, loves books, loves to read.

 

:grouphug:

 

I'd be more inclined to wait and see - I'm thinking "of course someone who has just graduated from that program is going to say that!!" Nothing wrong with "getting evaluated," but I'm more of a person to start researching on my own to see what I could do first at home.

 

Others mentioned books/techniques to help him learn to say the sounds - that's where I'd start. I'll toss out another recommendation, too - check out The Writing Road to Reading book from your library. Have a look at the "phonogram cards" section and on the backs of the cards, there are very specific instructions on the physical aspect of making each sound. Or you could buy the pack of phonogram cards from the Spalding International website.

 

Ditch the guilt! :)

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I've had kids with articulation errors--some outgrew, some needed help.

 

What's the big deal with having him evaluated? And so what if he needs speech therapy? It's not a huge disability, and even if it was, you get what you get when you have a child. Why feel guilty for something you can't control?

 

Now, if you had him evaluated and were told he needed help, but you disagreed with the evaluator, and refused, simply because you didn't want to face the fact that your son needed help, then bring out the guilt.

 

 

 

Chris, what you are saying re: guilt is logical while my internal sense of guilt is anything but.....;)

 

You make perfect sense. My crazy heart? Not so much!

 

I appreciate all of the guidance.

 

And, yes, I was as surprised as anyone that he started reading so soon. We havn't even made it halfway through Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons, but he has been asking LOTS of questions, "what does this say? What is this word? Show me how to read this". I finally slacked off on the TYCTRI100EZL (is that an acronym or did my keyboard just throw up?!) and just answered his questions.

 

His little sister, at age 3 (just turned three last Saturday) shows no interest, but loves to be read to, so it'll all happen in time. :)

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I would not have him evaluated. Dd5 is still mispronouncing some sounds, although our reading lessons have helped some with that, because I notice when she uses the wrong sound and I can correct it. For example, the word was "teeth" and she was saying "teef." For purely verbal stuff (not things she's reading), she'll say "cuverd" (like covered) instead of "cupboard."

 

For your ds, I would check that chart that a previous poster gave (I haven't read more than the first few replies), and pick one or two age-appropriate sounds to work on with him (ones he's having trouble with) in everyday conversation.

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...I don't see a downside to doing so, unless there is a chance that he will decide there's something wrong with him and clam up or something like that. If that's the case, then I would probably wait a bit and see how the other developmental stuff goes, keeping in mind the charts and observing other children as often but as discreetly as possible in the meantime.

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All three of my children were like this. They were all much slower than their peers at pronouncing sounds correctly. My oldest is 12 and speaks fine. My middle is 8 and sounds like she has an accent (some sounds are still a little off). When she slows down or reads with me then she pronounces everything fine, but when she's just talking she doesn't (she will grow out of it). The last one is 5 (turned in April) and she just started saying her "L"'s right this week! It makes me a little sad, her name has L in it and she's always used Y instead and now she doesn't :( My kids are just late and that's OK. He sounds fine.

HTH

Melissa

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He doesn't seem behind to me at all:

He DOES say the /l/ sound (as displayed in how he says "lellow"). He just doesn't hear it in combination with "b".

I'm guessing he does say the /y/ sound, (Can he say "Yes" and other "y" words?). He just doesn't say it in combination with the strong l's in "yellow".

All three of my kids had trouble with that word. One said "yeyo", and two said "lellow". They all figured it out, but two of them had to read a bit first (the printed word showed them the error of

their ways, lol).

 

 

I posted a similar question awhile back (because my 3yo couldn't say her 'r's), and a kind soul (joannqn?) gave me this link:

 

http://www.wayland.k12.ma.us/speech/dev_artic_norms.html

 

It lists the various sounds, and the typical age kids learn them. Your son is well within the norms for all of them.

Edited by Suzanne in ABQ
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First question, does anyone else in the family (1st cousins, 2nd cousins, uncles, aunts, etc) have/had speech problems? If so, get your dc evaluated NOW!

 

But if not, I would still have your dc evaluated. He is behind in many sounds, not just one or two. The combination of problems may indicate problems that just looking at the charts don't. Speech problems are far more complex and include far more than things than mispronounciation, though pronouciation is usually the first clue.

 

I have qualms about trying to teach pronounciation without an evaluation first. It seems the natural thing to do, but it can hide underlying problems. My parents worked hard to improve my pronounciation when I was a toddler, but they had no idea that there was an underlying problem that became masked. My younger sister, being in the middle of a pack, didn't get the one-on-one attention I did. She was lucky. Let me repeat that -- she was lucky. Her pronounciation problems were so severe that she received intensive ST when she was 5. I didn't, because I could get through basic pronounciation. But today my sister's speech and communication skills are far better than mine. Yet we believe that her underlying problems are far worse than mine. Another point about pronounciation. My ds had a poor ST who was only concerned with pronouciation. She ignored his underlying problems of not deciphering sounds, expressive and receptive language and other problems. The underlying problems added to his problems in reading and it took many more years of therapy to correct his true problems.

 

Finally there is a big difference between hearing noise and being able to decipher sounds. The basic hearing test covers just hearing noises. I don't think that you can do a more detailed test for a 2 yo to be honest. But I had one when I was in my mid-twenties. It showed that I had excellent hearing. It didn't show that I couldn't decipher many of the sounds of normal conversation. But it is the ability to *decipher* sounds that allow a individual to correct their own speech, distinguish differet words and participate in conversations. There are some tests that do this, but the basic hearing test doesn't.

 

I would get an evaluation. If the evaluator thinks your dc is developing normally, you're only out a bit of time and money and you receive some piece of mind. If he needs ST, you'll both be happy.

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First question, does anyone else in the family (1st cousins, 2nd cousins, uncles, aunts, etc) have/had speech problems? If so, get your dc evaluated NOW!

 

But if not, I would still have your dc evaluated. He is behind in many sounds, not just one or two. The combination of problems may indicate problems that just looking at the charts don't. Speech problems are far more complex and include far more than things than mispronounciation, though pronouciation is usually the first clue.

 

I have qualms about trying to teach pronounciation without an evaluation first. It seems the natural thing to do, but it can hide underlying problems. My parents worked hard to improve my pronounciation when I was a toddler, but they had no idea that there was an underlying problem that became masked. My younger sister, being in the middle of a pack, didn't get the one-on-one attention I did. She was lucky. Let me repeat that -- she was lucky. Her pronounciation problems were so severe that she received intensive ST when she was 5. I didn't, because I could get through basic pronounciation. But today my sister's speech and communication skills are far better than mine. Yet we believe that her underlying problems are far worse than mine. Another point about pronounciation. My ds had a poor ST who was only concerned with pronouciation. She ignored his underlying problems of not deciphering sounds, expressive and receptive language and other problems. The underlying problems added to his problems in reading and it took many more years of therapy to correct his true problems.

 

Finally there is a big difference between hearing noise and being able to decipher sounds. The basic hearing test covers just hearing noises. I don't think that you can do a more detailed test for a 2 yo to be honest. But I had one when I was in my mid-twenties. It showed that I had excellent hearing. It didn't show that I couldn't decipher many of the sounds of normal conversation. But it is the ability to *decipher* sounds that allow a individual to correct their own speech, distinguish differet words and participate in conversations. There are some tests that do this, but the basic hearing test doesn't.

 

I would get an evaluation. If the evaluator thinks your dc is developing normally, you're only out a bit of time and money and you receive some piece of mind. If he needs ST, you'll both be happy.

 

I so agree with you... especially after what we went through (successfully) with our son. I can't imagine why anyone would recommend NOT getting an evaluation. I'm so glad I did when it was recommended to me. Who knows what my son would have to be dealing with now if I hadn't... the poor guy would be saddled with a needless handicap. I also can't emphasize enough that the professionals all told us the earlier the better... (to a point, of course. One wouldn't take a toddler!)

 

In some cases it is not just a 'normal' growing up issue. If it ends up being one - great. You're not out a thing other than some time. If not... which of us would want to be saddled with such a handicap ourselves? I sure wouldn't.

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It sounds like normal mispronunciations to me, but do look at getting him evaluated if you are concerned. DS5 Has been doing speech therapy since he was 2.5. He barely spoke at 2.5 and had issues with muscles strength in his lower jaw and tongue. He went to a special preschool for a little while(I pulled him when lack of supervision meant the kids there for beaviour kept beating him up). ANd has since done speech therapy at home. We have a new assessment doen every 6 months or so because he will not do his therapy with the worker. HE has gone from having a severe speech delay to now having a mild one. HE is turning 6 in August and still needs me to translate for him to others, and those sounds you listed, he still struggles with. At 4.5 he would have been considered normal with those sound delays, but at almost 6 he is delayed. The good news is with an evaulation you can see exactly what if anything needs to be worked on and the speech therapist can give you ideas on how to bring those sounds out properly with your child.

 

1 think that worked for us on building his sounds was to use a PVC pipe in a c shape. When he speaks into 1 end the sound carries to her ear in the other. He didn't know that he was saying things wrong until we used this. NOw I can say a sound, and he will say it into this pipe and can hear for himself if he is saying it right or not. The "phone" cost me maybe $5 at a teacher supply store, it would have been cheaper to go to the hardware store.

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Yep, those all sound like completely normal mispronunciations. About 6 months ago I Googled and looked at several of those charts because I was wondering about my 3 year old. My older daughter was so different in her speech development that I desperately needed a reality check.

 

There are a lot of kids that fall through the cracks when EI would have made a huge difference, and as a result, some professionals are very quick to recommend evaluations. Their feeling is that it can't hurt.

 

However, if you'd rather not go that route now, it might help to find a copy of Teach Me How to Say It Right: Helping Your Child with Articulation Problems. The text should help you figure out whether there's any real reason to be concerned, and if there is, it gives you a head start on what you can do at home.

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We went through Phonics Pathways, and it really helped him to hear each sound in isolation. He eventually got to the point where he could correctly pronounce things while reading that he didn't correctly pronounce in regular speech, then he finally integrated the two. He also later told me that he didn't like to pronounce "th," even though he could, because he felt like he was spitting. He pronounced it as "f" instead.

 

Now, at 6, the only thing he can't pronounce properly is the Spanish "rr," which usually comes out sounding like a combination between "th" and "d," but sometimes like an "l," so he'll say "pedo" (fart) or "pelo" (hair) instead of "perro" (dog).

 

Please try to make sure that no one is teasing or pressuring your child to "try again" (and again and again and again)...mine got frustrated with the neighbor girl who laughed at his Spanish and stopped even trying to speak it for quite some time, and he refuses to speak Spanish around my DH because DH pressures him to say the word over and over again. :thumbdown:

 

FWIW, we did do speech therapy when he was 2ish because he was VERY frustrated that we couldn't understand what he wanted. Our speech therapist said that the most important thing was to model proper speech, so make sure you enunciate! It also doesn't hurt to rephrase what they say, just like you do to correct their grammar...just don't make your DC repeat after you.

 

~Jen

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It sounds pretty normal to me. I have hearing loss so it was very important that my kids pronounce words correctly just so I could understand them. When they said lellow, I said, "It's y, y, yellow". They would repeat it and eventually they would say it correctly. Sometimes I would have to tell them where their tongue should be when they said a word. For example, "Your tongue should not touch your teeth at the beginning of y, y, yellow". They thought it was great fun!

 

I have found that some parents don't correct the mispronunciations because they think it is so cute. (I have to admit that sometimes it is super cute). My philosophy was that I didn't want to retrain them after they had been saying it incorrectly for several years. So I kept a journal of Chloeisms and Claireisms, where I would write down all the funny sayings or pronunciations and then we would move on to correcting them.

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Until very recently, L (now 3.5 yo) couldn't properly pronounce words that begin with two consonants. He pronounced /tr/ as /f/, for example, which was really bad, as he loved trucks.

 

HAAA!!! I had forgotten how my youngest did THE SAME THING!!! We had a VERY embarrassing day at the barber shop. Of course, it HAD to be crowded, there HAD to be no less 832,492,376 trucks driving by, causing him to say "Oooh, Truck":lol: (but with "F" instead of "TR") We got quite a few laughs!!

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Can't hurt to get an evaluation for peace of mind.

 

My kids were both late to talk, and my 4.5yo is trying to learn to read ... but it's kind of hard to do phonics with a child who still hasn't mastered making all the sounds. LOL. She does well enough though. My 7yo went through the same thing.

 

Still, if I were worried, I'd get the evaluation. We did when we suspected autism, and even though it was an out-of-pocket expense, it was worth the peace of mind. (He's just bright and bizarrely quirky. To be expected, as the poor kids has US for parents. LOL.)

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As a former early educator, I always recommend an evaluation. They last less than 2 hours, insurance will usually pay for them if they aren't offered for free, and the worst thing they wil say is that your child may need 1 hr therapy for 6 months or so. Part of the eval will also include watching them actually use their mouth and tongue to see if the articulation problem is due to oral motor problems like tongue control problems. If so, it is easier to correct them now than 2 or 3 years down the road.

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I've known adults to mispronounce words they had never seen written. Once you grasp phonics it's so much easier to know how to say things. He's still little yet and working on his speaking skills, I would not worry at all. Give him time, practice enunciating together (emancipation proclomation, had to say that a zillion times in Pre-K to work on my enunciation).

 

Again, I've known grown ups that mush words if they've only heard them, reading teaches you a greater clarity of speech.

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I had to fight to get an eval for my DD - finally she turned 3 and i could self refer to the school district.

 

She has across the board issues with a lot of things, and while i LOVE her ST at the school - i know that we have not made the progress we would have made in private speech. If i ever find out that she has insurance, i'm going to ask to have a private eval done and private therapy. I know she has some issues with her tongue and it's just hard to get where we need to in the group setting.

 

I'd take him for the eval - it can't hurt.

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