hornblower Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 deleted for privacy. thx everyone. mwah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
displace Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Sorry things are so tough for you and the family. ((Hugs)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 That's horrible! Were you able to be there for the appointment? (I'm just asking because sometimes someone with anxiety problems can "hear" things differently than they were actually presented.) I don't know the procedure in Canada, but I'd be mad and concerned enough about the damage this doctor is doing to complain in writing to the medical director. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 Jean - yup, I was there. I also got a vibe of being dismissed as helicopter mom. Dd is not really able to talk about it at all on her own & we had read that it was helpful to have a person come with you & talk about it together but I almost think it made it worse. These drs are all in solo practice so only person to complain to would be their regulatory body. Which I'm not actually opposed to doing but I'm sort of trying to narrow my focus on what to do now for dd first.... Going to a new dr is not really an option either - few family physicians are accepting new patients & even if you do get to see one, nobody want to rx serious meds like this at first appointment etc. The way the system is set up here, you have to see family physician first for everything. They're the gatekeepers to specialists & would have to agree to give a referral to a psychiatrist (most of which are also waitlisted for months from what I hear...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer in MI Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I didn't see your post a couple weeks ago. But, is this new? Or has she always had anxiety? Because if this is a new thing, please look up PANDAS. The all-day crying panic attack sounds so much like my daughter after she got PANDAS. ((hugs)) to you. I'm so sorry you and your daughter are going through this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Oh no! I am so, so sorry. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 no, I don't think PANDAS, not new. always been a low level slightly anxious kid. Almost 20 now & I think all her coping tricks are used up. thx for hugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cera Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I would probably prescreen some doctors and make her another appt with someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Will they not refer you to a psychiatrist? Can the counselor push for this? I am not sure how your medical system works but here we could call Community Mental health for an emergency appointment. The colleges around here also have resources for getting mental health services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Would be a shame to drop now while she is doing so well. Can she pinpoint what causes her the most anxiety? Would relaxation exercises help? Tapping? Have you tried a school psychologist? I missed your previous post on this topic and am not sure what the background info is. Anxiety about school performance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I'm so sorry you guys are going through this. Been there. At dc's school, instructors can withdraw a kid at any time during a term and give a W. Can she talk to her instructors and explain her challenges and ask that the instructor withdraw her with a W if she doesn't feel she's improving in a few weeks? This would give her some time to see if she if going to be able to cope with this, while also letting the instructors know that she's trying really hard but is facing some challenges. Dd did this and it's amazing how much more relaxed she was when the instructors knew what was going on and they had a plan/agreement. Dh used to teach at the local college and if a student was really trying- showing up, participating, turning in homework, etc., he would encourage them NOT to drop and he would drop them before the final if at that point it was clear the student wasn't going to be able to get an acceptable grade. He felt the student paid for the class and if the kid needed to retake it, at least they would have the benefit of having attended the whole semester rather than guessing at midterm whether he/she was going to fail. Lots of instructors will show grace if they just have the chance to know what's going on. And I totally know how you feel about having a doctor totally blow off a real illness. Oldest dd was seriously anorexic and I dragged her to the doctor who told me in front of her that her eating salad and drinking water was healthy and that I was lucky to have a kid so health conscious. She was ONLY eating lettuce and drinking water and using laxatives by the boxful. Grr..... :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 That is so terrible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 What the heck? If everyone can control her body with her mind, why would we need doctors? That moron would be out of a job! I'm sorry she didn't help your DD at all. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twolittleboys Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Could you possibly talk again to the doctor and more or less insist on a referral? I am really bad about confrontations/advocating so honestly probably wouldn't be able to do this but theoretically it might be an option. Did you impress on the doctor how concerned you are? It sounds like you won't be able to see a specialist without a referral and it also seems difficult to get another family doctor so working with this one might be your best option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Can you pay out of pocket and circumvent the need for a referral just to cover the next few weeks? Then later go back and find a GP, etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truscifi Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: I'm sorry the doc was so unhelpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 You need documentation. Keep a record of highs and lows and especially incidents like crying for seven hours. Go back to the idiot doctor and insist on a referral. I'm sorry it's rough. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 i've been researching & chatting to some friends trying to figure it out we actually know a bit more about psych care here than the avg joe due to some btdt in my immediate family but I still find it hard to navigate the system.we can privately pay for psychologists (actually 'can' is wrong. It's not covered by the gov't so you HAVE to pay) but we can't pay for psychiatrists. Psychiatrists are all public & you have to access them through the family dr. Some psychologists can apparently refer but it seems all very vague about which will accept a referral from someone other than a gp.& they all have wait lists. For anxiety & depression, many of them will just confirm dx & then toss you back to the gp to deal with the meds. (which would actually be ok at this point...) most people who get anti depressants & anti anxiety meds here are only ever seen by their family doctor, & not by a specialist.... that's why an unsupportive gp is such a prob. I don't really think there's any option for us other than going back to the gp. Harriet Vane - thx for reminder to document & keep track. I do forget to do that in the midst of it all, so it's a good reminder to get this written down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunnybunch Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 :huh: What an (expletive, a bad one) idiot. How absolutely and utterly irresponsible to dismiss a neurochemical imbalance as being "all in your mind." Goose-brained nitwit. Please see another doctor. The counselor might be able to recommend someone in your community who is mental health friendly and will not dismiss your dd's concerns. :grouphug: to your dear dd, and to you. I hope she can understand that the doctor's foolishness is no reflection on your dd's very real experience and need. Cat, shaking my head and thinking, too bad it's not all right to smack some folks upside the head and yell, "You foolish irresponsible dolt!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I'm so sorry your dd is suffering and the medical system is failing her. Goodness, it might be worth considering lightening her load while she is working her way through this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Wow, what a terrible doc. I am so sorry that did not go well, especially when it *could* have been such a good experience. I do hope you can navigate a way to a next positive experience. Truly, what an ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I'm so sorry. can you get in with a dr who is willing to consider actually *treating* her? is it anxiety? have you look at some of the supplements that are aimed at anxiety? some can be very helpful. sometimes, withdrawing from classes is the right thing to do, not because she can't do it, but because she needs to focus on getting her health in a better place. maybe just withdraw from some of lighten her load? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 yes, I think anxiety. she's taking 5 htp during the day & valerian &/or melatonin at night she's already taking dha & epa but I think I'll check the dosage because maybe she needs to go higher. any other supplements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klmama Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 yes, I think anxiety. she's taking 5 htp during the day & valerian &/or melatonin at night she's already taking dha & epa but I think I'll check the dosage because maybe she needs to go higher. any other supplements? GABA Inositol Both are used to help with anxiety. It's recommended to only take GABA 6 out of 7 days in order to let the body make some on its own. With both GABA and inositol, it's common to take one in a.m. and one in p.m. to keep the amount in the body fairly steady (except for that one day off of GABA). Both can help with sleep, too. ETA: As another poster suggested, please do your own research for side effects, contraindications, etc. Whatever you end up doing, I pray your dd gets the help she needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Sheesh, we had a similar thing happen when our oldest was about 20. He was headed down a destructive road stemming from depression--drugs and a number of poor choices were involved. We begged and cajoled him into going to a counselor. I got a recommendation and called the head doctor in the office to give them a heads up for why we wanted him to come in. The director assured us she got it and scheduled us with an experienced counselor. If I remember right, I was looking for a recommendation for a psychiatrist because the situation was so extreme, but we had to be evaluated by a psych before we could get that. When we arrived, the counselor treated my husband and I like we didn't exist. She shushed us, in fact. Then treated my 6'8" sullen 20 year old like he was a 14 year old living with overbearing parents. Player that my kid was then, he fed this gal all kinds of stuff. She got him to agree that he would keep his room cleaner so we wouldn't rag on him. So helpful. When we got home from that disaster, I called the director and BLEW UP. Of course our chances were blown at that point. My son point blank refused to see any other medical or mental health person. The next few years were awful. My son got better, but that was more by God's grace than anything else. I've never forgotten that feeling of total helplessness that came from a mental health person completely blowing us off. I hope you are able to find a professional who will listen to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punks in Ontario Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Can you take her to an emerg with a psych unit? I realize the waits are long and not all dr.s are very sympathetic to these issues, but this girl needs some help. Around here, I've heard some great responses from ER. A couple of alternatives: a walk in clinic may even be able to set up a referral although they're not likely to prescribe meds or going back to your GP and strongly requesting a referral. Hugs. I know this is a crisis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trulycrabby Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 L-theanine, but please research it on your own before you give it to her. I do not know a lot of the side effects and contraindications off the top of my head. I have had anxiety for years, and for me, the best non medicinal treatment is yoga and running. Yoga, especially power yoga or hot yoga, just completely takes it away. Good luck and (((hugs))). I used to work in our local er and have seen all the various ways that the mental health system fails the patient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 ((((hugs))))) I am sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyontheFarm Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 hornblower, I'm in Ontario. We had to access the system for mental health services through the emergency room. Our family dr directed us there first. From the ER we were sent to the local Mental Health Assessment Unit. They had a rotation of dr's, counselors, social workers and therapists who were able to observe my dd over a 3 week period in an outpatient class setting. They worked with us to get dd on the right combination of meds. They were great to work with us as a family unit (dd20 had to give her permission first) and they really listened to my concerns as Mom. We are just 2 months out from when everything hit the fan and she has been weaned off of the cocktail of meds down to just one medicine. In 6 months if she stays stable like she has been, we (the dr's and us) will try to wean her down too a lower dose of the medicine she is on. If your general practitioner is being stupid. Take dd in to emergency. If she is experiencing mania or depression or anxiety and you can't calm her down, call 911 or take her in. If she is ok right now, I would call the er and ask when they have mental health personal on staff and head in 1 hr before they arrive so you can be seen by them, tell the triage nurse you want to see the mental health worker. Let them know that something is really wrong and you are supporting your dd to make sure she gets the help she needs. I had one dr who asked me to leave and dd put a stop to it. She told him that I was staying because I was the only one who believed her and was actively working to help get her the help she needed. With that dr I kept my mouth shut unless asked a question and when my dd couldn't remember something and would ask me to tell her the answer. This group is for Ontario parents who have bipolar children. https://www.facebook.com/groups/332143846966104/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I had low-level anxiety and found help with neural feedback. BrainPaint was the system my counsellor used. It took about 20 treatments to see a difference. I never said anything about it, but my dh noticed a big difference about 10 treatments in. God be with you. I'm sorry for this trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Huge hugs. And growls of anger and frustration on your family's behalf. Ridiculous and honestly horrific. Goodness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 yes, I think anxiety. she's taking 5 htp during the day & valerian &/or melatonin at night she's already taking dha & epa but I think I'll check the dosage because maybe she needs to go higher. any other supplements? l-theanine GABA have both been helpful for my son's asd realted anxiety. he only takes melantonin to help him go to sleep (it's effectiveness varies according to cause of insomnia) - and doesn't need that if his glutathione levels are up. he doesn't take either of the others. d3 (levels should be above 30, preferably above 50. some people respond better to drops. d3 really is an essentail in mood stabilization.) and a good quality bio-available b complex (we use emerald labs b-healthy) should also be considered essential his naturopath started him on a minimum dosage of 2 - 1mg drops cibdex 3x a day (supposed to be 4x. available from amazon). amazing results, and we've stopped the GABA under direction from his ND, and reduced the l-theanine (only because I'm nervous to totally drop it.) because they just weren't effective enough for his anxiety. it does seem to make him slightly more hyper - but it's a happy hyper and his anxiety is significantly reduced enough to help him function better. the kid who hates to take anything - asks for it. (the only other thing he has ever asked for his melatonin. the very next night.) complains about the flavor, but takes it himself (he's not allowed to.) (we've done peppermint, and vanilla. peppermint is better.) after telling me about one patient who was stimming while in the exam room, by walking back and forth shaking a rattle with intensity, after one dose and within minutes he was laying on the exam table drawing . . . . yeah, we'll try that. I take 5-htp at night only. it helps me with depression, not anxiety. (due to menopause, I have days I do feel anxious - I take a gaba. but that's pretty rare.) it also had no effect - until the daily doseage was high enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: It's so hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I want to encourage you that meds might be very helpful. Dd had such anxiety- she actually passed out twice because she was so stressed. She passed out in the locker room at her college. She went through some therapy for about 12 weeks to learn some coping strategies and took an anti anxiety medication for about 6 months. She's a different person today- off meds and not in any kind of therapy, away at college doing great. Planning to go to Japan in April on an exchange program. She's learned some really effective coping strategies to help her when she feels anxious and they continue to help her navigate being a young adult. We were nervous about her being on medication and in therapy but it helped her so much. Hope you can find a way to help your dd, and maybe you have no hesitation about medication or therapy. I only mention it because some people are hesitant - we were at first! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I am having big problems myself with my daughter. I wish I had advice. I have none on this! I am going through it myself and have been for years. (((hugs))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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