SquirrellyMama Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I do teach my kids opposing viewpoints but not necessarily with arguements for that viewpoint. I can tell my kids why people do certain things but not because I like their reason for it. Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanne in ABQ Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Absolutely! That's one reason I have them home -- so they can learn about different points of view, and learn to think for themselves, and make their own decisions. I believe it is a vital part of education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilyK Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Now that I think I can agree with. If I were rude, I'd say this to most religious people I know. But I'm not rude. . Well, at least you're not rude.;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erica in PA Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I do teach my kids that other people have different perspectives on these things. The Bible is my and my husband's standard for truth, so when it comes to an issue that the Bible is specific about, we do tell them that those who do or say otherwise are incorrect. If it's an issue that the Bible is not specific about, I share my perspective and tell them why I believe that, but tell them the reasons why others have reached a different conclusion. Whenever possible, I really try to go beyond my own preferences and give a fair perspective on the other side, and present them the way they would want to be portrayed. For example, I am pro-life. When explaining that some people are pro-choice, I would not say, "They want babies to be killed, and we want babies to live." I would say something along the lines of, "They think that the most important factor is that a woman should have the right to choose whether or not she wants to have a baby, after the baby has started within her. We disagree with that, because we believe that the most important factor is that it's wrong to destroy a new life created by God." So I'm not presenting all different perspectives "objectively," but hopefully I am presenting them fairly and accurately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) But I'm very intentional and thoughtful about when and how to present them. One of the things that I like about SOTW is that it gave me a lot of jumping off points for discussions of non-Christian faiths. There have been other triggers as well. But, when TeleTubbies had a Hindu ritual as their centerpiece, I turned it off and said, "This one is not for us." DD accepted that at the time. I felt that she was too young to watch rituals of other faiths at that point, but now I would not. I have always talked a lot about commercials and propaganda. DD is perhaps too tuned in to that issue. We also limit commercial television quite severely, and don't allow any teen magazines with ads into the house. But I don't make it a big moral issue if DD reads them at the supermarket or at a friend's house. I just reduce the barage to what I consider a reasonable level. WRT evolution, this is the first year that I have asked DD to study this in depth. I want her to understand it thoroughly even though our church teaches that it is not accurate. When she was younger, she was aware of it but we didn't study it in the kind of depth that we did other science and nature information, as I felt that she was not ready to handle the contradictions. WRT social issues, we are shortly going to embark upon a one semester study of all of them via a curriculum for 8th graders from Concordia. We have talked about some of them from time to time as they have come up. As Lutherans, they tend not to come up in the sermons at church very much, so I have not had to deal with them in advance of feeling that DD was ready for those discussions. But I have anticipated those discussions by proactively teaching the truth up until now--for instance, that God created babies to be desirable and lovable so that adults would take care of them; that it is more natural to do so than not; that the reason infant cries are so annoying is so that we are inclined to fix them, and isn't it great that God figured this all out and set it up so elegantly? DD believes this stuff to her core, so it will be much easier to talk about abortion and infanticide and so forth when it is time to discuss them in detail. I take on those issues willingly and proactively because I want my version to be in there FIRST. Just like with sex ed. Edited February 3, 2009 by Carol in Cal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 To the OP..yes we will. My kids are so little we cover all those things in very small doses now. But if he asks about someone else's religion or beliefs or it comes up I would try and explain in an age-appropriate way. So far the biggest controversial thing we've covered hasn't been anything you mentioned but Santa Claus vs. No Santa Claus. (We're in the No Santa Claus camp but tried to discuss the opposing view with tolerance. :)) I just started reading Tim Keller's new book The Reason for God and found it interesting that in the intro he discusses this issue. He encourages everyone to really examine their own beliefs or doubts by trying to understand the other position well. He really encourages Christians to wrestle with their own doubts and those of their friends/neighbors. (And by this I don't think he means to argue with their friends but to listen to those who have doubts and try to understand them instead of dismissing them.) I agree with him that it does make for a healthier faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erica in PA Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I know I won't be able to express this as good as others may, but lots of this discussion seems rather post-modern in some respects. I suppose much of that is in an effort to not offend others in this board. But it also seems to be part of what we are teaching our kids. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't see alot of people talking about actual truth, some are. Truth exists and I want to teach my kids that it does. Now whether Mommy knows all truth - that is another story to which we all know the ending. I want to teach my kids to search for the truth. I want to teach them that not everyone will believe in the truth. But I also want them to know that beliefs are different from truth and that no matter how sincere or passionate someone can be about their beliefs, they can be wrong. But mostly I want to teach them that it is real people that hold these beliefs, with fears and hurts and hearts that God longs for. This is what is to be respected and loved. "Postmodernists hold that the pretense of objective truth always does violence by excluding other voices (regarding other world views to be invalid), and marginalizing the vulnerable by scripting them out of the story. Truth claims, we are told, are essentially tools to legitimate power. That's why in postmodern culture, the person to be feared is the one who believes that we can discover ultimate truth. The dogmatist, the totalizer, the absolutist is both naive and dangerous. A growing number, especially among the emerging generation, believe that reason and truth are inherently political and subversive. That's why they are often so cynical. According to the voices in contemporary culture that shape "Generation X" thinking, claims to truth are clever disguises for the pernicious "will to power." Consequently, rather than dominating others with our "version of reality," we should accept all beliefs as equally valid. Openness without the restraint of reason, and tolerance without moral appraisal are the new postmodern mandates. Some might say "what's wrong with that?" Our understanding of truth may be relative, but truth is not. It is dangerous because it leads to conclusions like: Ethics are relative, morality is relative; and cannot be proven. forever wondering... I agree. I was just thinking the other week that this board has a very strong post-modern tone. It's interesting that so many people view it as a primarily Christian board. I think the post-modern mindset is at least as prevalent here, and I would say even more so, as any other. I do think it's sad that so many Christians have fallen prey to this line of thinking-- that the highest good is avoiding absolutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Agreeing with Erica!! She said it nicer than I did, but I meant that. LOL. There are, of course, gray areas that Scripture doesn't specifically speak to. When that is the case, we share our convictions and reasoning and explain that others come to a different conclusion. Not nearly so many things fall into this gray area as some would like to claim though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayle in Guatemala Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 For instance: 1.Do you teach your children about other religions? Christians, do you teach them about Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Paganism, etc.? Pagans, do you teach about these other religions as well? Muslims, do teach about the others? Etc., etc. 2.Do you teach about opposing scientific views? Creationists, do you teach about evolution? Evolutionists, do you teach about creationism? 3.Do you teach opposing moral/social beliefs? Pro-lifers, do you teach about the arguments that exist in favor of abortion? Pro-choicers, do you teach about the arguments opposing abortion? Obviously, I could go on and on. These are just a few examples that popped into my head. Is it profitable for your children to understand what skeptical scholars opposed to your way of thinking/believing are saying, and if so, why? What dangers exist as you examine these opposing belief systems and how do you overcome it? If you DO teach opposing beliefs, do you do it in an objective manner or do you teach them as something others believe and that these beliefs are false and why they are false? Does the benefit of knowing “all sides of the story†outweigh the chance that your children might choose to believe something that you oppose? What says the hive? 1. Yes. We do teach our dc about other religions. I think it's important for them to have a knowledge of other beliefs. 2. We cover both creationism and evolution. We, being Christians, believe in creationism and micro-evolution. 3. We teach our dc about all view points of a moral issue. It's important for them to understand the other views so that they can be compassionate in their dealings with others from a different view than they may hold. I find that a lot of judgmentalism comes from a lack of knowledge from the other person's point of view. We teach it because we live in a world where there are opposing views and they will come across them in real life. I want them to be well-prepared. I want them to make their own choices about what they believe and why. I, of course, would love it if they agreed with my view point!:tongue_smilie: I want them to have a good, thinking background. It's important to me that they use their hearts and their heads when dealing with others. I don't agree with my parents on everything. But, they taught me to think for myself and find out these things for myself. The result is that I own my beliefs. They weren't fed to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy loves Bud Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Absolutely - though we haven't really touched on the abortion issue from any angle yet. It's important to me that my children understand that other intelligent people can come to well thought out conclusions that conflict with their own. We may not agree with everyone but we share this planet with them and need to figure out a way to treat everyone with kindness and respect. If you haven't made an effort to understand another's POV, I don't know how that's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMCassandra Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Without having time to read all the responses right now, I'm going to give just a quick reply. I do teach opposing viewpoints--in the logic stage. I think the logic stage is the PERFECT time to begin it, and I intend to do it in more detail in the rhetoric stage, when they have more to base an opinion on. I do not think that opposing viewpoints are helpful in the grammar stage--I think they can just confuse the children. So my point is not IF but WHEN. I will come back and read the responses later. Hopefully I'm not just repeating what many others have said. If so--sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 1.Do you teach your children about other religions? Christians, do you teach them about Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Paganism, etc.? Pagans, do you teach about these other religions as well? Muslims, do teach about the others? Etc., etc. We talk about other religions when they come up. Andrew is in Cub Scouts and we do a lot of things in Scouts that bring us to other places of worship and other beliefs. 2.Do you teach about opposing scientific views? Creationists, do you teach about evolution? Evolutionists, do you teach about creationism? I believe God created evolution... so we're studying BOTH, but from a Christian perspective. I do read to him from places that feel evolution negates creationism, and I do censor the statements I feel go to far. 3.Do you teach opposing moral/social beliefs? Pro-lifers, do you teach about the arguments that exist in favor of abortion? Pro-choicers, do you teach about the arguments opposing abortion? Tricky question... What little we have discussed regarding abortion, I have told dd that scientists can't figure out when life starts, so pro-choice people do not believe that they are aborting a living being. IOW, I do not want her to believe that abortion is not murder, but I do not want her to assume that everyone believes that way and I want her to have compassion for those who have had abortions. Obviously, I could go on and on. These are just a few examples that popped into my head. Is it profitable for your children to understand what skeptical scholars opposed to your way of thinking/believing are saying, and if so, why? Since I want my kids to be able to live in this world, they need to know that not everyone is like them. They need to know there are differing points of few, the merits of those povs. Otherwise, I don't believe they would be prepared. What dangers exist as you examine these opposing belief systems and how do you overcome it? If you DO teach opposing beliefs, do you do it in an objective manner or do you teach them as something others believe and that these beliefs are false and why they are false? I do get uncomfortable, at times, thinking I may be sending my kids to hell in a hand basket. Most of the time, however, I just feel like I'm preparing them for life. Do I spin things? Well, I would like to say no, but that wouldn't be true. Of course, I point out the fallacies, the holes, the loose ends, of course, I want my children to believe in God and Jesus Christ. Like I said before, I do censor things that I feel go to far (for instance, an online science quiz that said 'nothing just pops out of thin air'). Does the benefit of knowing “all sides of the story†outweigh the chance that your children might choose to believe something that you oppose? I would like to believe so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoriM Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 For instance: 1.Do you teach your children about other religions? Christians, do you teach them about Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Paganism, etc.? Pagans, do you teach about these other religions as well? Muslims, do teach about the others? Etc., etc. 2.Do you teach about opposing scientific views? Creationists, do you teach about evolution? Evolutionists, do you teach about creationism? 3.Do you teach opposing moral/social beliefs? Pro-lifers, do you teach about the arguments that exist in favor of abortion? Pro-choicers, do you teach about the arguments opposing abortion? Obviously, I could go on and on. These are just a few examples that popped into my head. Is it profitable for your children to understand what skeptical scholars opposed to your way of thinking/believing are saying, and if so, why? What dangers exist as you examine these opposing belief systems and how do you overcome it? If you DO teach opposing beliefs, do you do it in an objective manner or do you teach them as something others believe and that these beliefs are false and why they are false? Does the benefit of knowing “all sides of the story†outweigh the chance that your children might choose to believe something that you oppose? What says the hive? I read all 7 pages of responses, and have to say that I really don't teach my children opposing viewpoints to my beliefs, or our family's beliefs. I spend most of my time teaching OUR beliefs. They manage to come up with the opposing beliefs just fine on their own. :) Certainly I do teach about other people groups, and other cultures. Naturally I teach about scientific concepts like evolution and the fossil record. Absolutely I teach them logic, and debate, and thus encourage them to research any argument an opposition might present in order to appropriately counter those arguments. (But none of that is outside our belief system.) But do I make a conscious effort to teach them opposing beliefs? Not at all. I spent an inordinate amount of time teaching them why we believe what we believe, why we live the way we live, and why we make the choices we make. I also corrected their mistakes along the way within the context of those choices. I find I am unteaching counter-family cultural beliefs most of the time, particularly now that they are 19 and 16 years old, and confirming their own choices within the framework of beliefs we hold. We have a lot of , "Mom, am I doing the right thing?" or "Why doesn't ANYONE else treat others like XX?" or "Whatever happened to YY behavior?" conversations, and I get to remind them that we have beliefs that don't fit the typical people in the world. It's okay, and it's worth it, of course. But pretty much anyone they talk with is willing to teach them other beliefs! Lori Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle T Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 we talk about religions, hot topics, politics, and all such topics as they come up in life/conversation. I tell DS what our family believes, and I have no problem in telling him that what others believe is nonsense, but absolutely their right to believe as they see fit. If he believes/thinks differently from me as an adult, that's fine. I would hope he doesn't turn out some sort of clone or non-thinker. Making different choices from one's parents is part of growing up. Michelle T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I might mention that other POV/religions exist, but I don't spend much time talking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawn of ns Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 1.Do you teach your children about other religions? Christians, do you teach them about Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Paganism, etc.? Pagans, do you teach about these other religions as well? Muslims, do teach about the others? Etc., etc. Not so much formally right now but my kids have attended church, have an atheist dad, my best friend is pagan, etc. 2.Do you teach about opposing scientific views? Creationists, do you teach about evolution? Evolutionists, do you teach about creationism? I teach evolution from a science perspective and cover Christian creation as a creation myth. We do discuss creationism a bit but it really hasn't come up much because it isn't really an issue up here. Most people, most Christians even, don't accept it and really aren't very familiar with it. 3.Do you teach opposing moral/social beliefs? Pro-lifers, do you teach about the arguments that exist in favor of abortion? Pro-choicers, do you teach about the arguments opposing abortion? We do talk about opposing views. I want my kids to understand that the different sides in a discussion often have good reasons for believing what they do. Not that they need to accept everyone's reasoning but that because we might disagree that doesn't mean the reasoning of the opposition is bad or unfounded. We haven't really discussed abortion as my kids are pretty young yet and haven't asked about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I do think it's sad that so many Christians have fallen prey to this line of thinking-- that the highest good is avoiding absolutes. What's the basis for the conclusion you've drawn here? Have Christians said to you that they believe the highest good is avoiding absolutes? Or could that be your mistaken interpretation, influenced by your disagreement with their perspective? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 What's the basis for the conclusion you've drawn here? Have Christians said to you that they believe the highest good is avoiding absolutes? Or could that be your mistaken interpretation, influenced by your disagreement with their perspective? I've heard Christians say exactly this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 My girls are very young yet, so a lot of this hasn't been covered. However, I do plan to discuss things objectively and from many different points of view. My goal is to give them plenty of information and allow them to make informed choices. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 And here's where I get off the train. I don't believe in a God. Am I correct in assuming that you're equating God with truth? Because that doesn't follow as far as I'm concerned. actually, her point was not about God, per se, but about how ALL people are worth valuing, regardless their beliefs. No, I don't agree with this, & I'm not certain it's a hallmark of postmodernism. Interestingly, where I have heard this argument about "all beliefs being valid" is from creationists trying to add creationism &/or religion to the public school curriculum. which is interesting, because I saw very few posts that claimed to NOT teach another belief as false, and they didn't have a Christian tone to them. guess when/where the creationists [actually, the ID-ists] trying to teach the "all beliefs being valid" thing started? :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I've heard Christians say exactly this. They've spoken those words verbatim? What an interesting coinky-dink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Evolution is a myth created by those that don't want to believe in God. I teach the science of the intricities and organization of intelligent design. I do not appreciate my truth being called a myth and a feeling. [/size][/font][/size][/font][/size][/font][/size][/font] Nor does anyone else. Of course when we are talking about what we believe as truth and how we handle other things, we will have slip ups in the wording. I was merely pointing out that the general sentiments of this board usually let your slip up by, but if I turn it around and say the same thing with the opposite view then it is pounced upon as a derogatory remark. Perhaps a more effective way to have done this would have been to state, "How would you feel if I said: Evolution is a myth created by those that don't want to believe in God. I teach the science of the intricities and organization of intelligent design." Followed by "I do not appreciate my truth being called a myth and a feeling." Same sentiments but communicated in polite and respectful manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Atl Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Yes... we play Devil's advocate often. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Funny how no one jumped nmoira for her inflammatory words, but when Loved points it out, everyone jumps on her for using inflammatory words. I didn't appreciate nmoira's calling creation a myth, as apparently, Loved didn't, either, yet it's not ok if someone calls nmoira's beliefs myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 They've spoken those words verbatim? What an interesting coinky-dink. verbatim as in "the highest good is avoiding absolutes"? not necessarily. But the concept that avoiding absolutes is the greatest good or some rendition of that? you betcha. discussions about the concept of "absolute truth" in the Christian community really aren't that far and few between, Colleen. There are also many Christians that believe everyone WILL be saved, that there ARE many paths to God, and other issues. I guess it also depends on how one defines their "Christianity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laylamcb Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 And here's where I get off the train. Probably wise, as it appears, like so many trains here, to be heading for a crash and lots of carnage. Get while the gettin's good. :leaving: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Perhaps a more effective way to have done this would have been to state, "How would you feel if I said: Evolution is a myth created by those that don't want to believe in God. I teach the science of the intricities and organization of intelligent design." Followed by "I do not appreciate my truth being called a myth and a feeling." FWIW, I would have preferred "Evolution is a myth. I teach..." or "I teach... and cover Evolution as a myth." I for one would have had no problems with this expression. My problem is with "created by those who don't want to believe in God." The first version is stating a position of personal belief without casting aspersions or speaking to the motivation of others. Funny how no one jumped nmoira for her inflammatory words, but when Loved points it out, everyone jumps on her for using inflammatory words. I didn't appreciate nmoira's calling creation a myth, as apparently, Loved didn't, either, yet it's not ok if someone calls nmoira's beliefs myth. See above. I will not apologize for my viewpoint. Please note that I did not say "Christian myths," or indeed specify any religion or other belief system. Nor did I jump on anyone for speaking of "Truth," and wouldn't in the context of a thread about personal beliefs and how we handle these in a educational context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 For instance: 1.Do you teach your children about other religions? Christians, do you teach them about Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Paganism, etc.? Pagans, do you teach about these other religions as well? Muslims, do teach about the others? Etc., etc. 2.Do you teach about opposing scientific views? Creationists, do you teach about evolution? Evolutionists, do you teach about creationism? 3.Do you teach opposing moral/social beliefs? Pro-lifers, do you teach about the arguments that exist in favor of abortion? Pro-choicers, do you teach about the arguments opposing abortion? Obviously, I could go on and on. These are just a few examples that popped into my head. Is it profitable for your children to understand what skeptical scholars opposed to your way of thinking/believing are saying, and if so, why? What dangers exist as you examine these opposing belief systems and how do you overcome it? If you DO teach opposing beliefs, do you do it in an objective manner or do you teach them as something others believe and that these beliefs are false and why they are false? Does the benefit of knowing “all sides of the story†outweigh the chance that your children might choose to believe something that you oppose? What says the hive? Girl, were you purposely trying to stir the religious debate pot? ;) Since I know your current area of interest (study), I am pretty sure you weren't but given the recent closed thread, come on? :D I don't give this one the rest of the day. I see a train wreck comin' on and I am gettin' outta dodge. :auto: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Yes, absolutely. I not only teach the other perspective, but we discuss at length how thinking, moral, loving people can feel the "other way". I'm a centrist on many hot button issues, though, and that certainly makes comprehensive discussion easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Nor does anyone else. Perhaps a more effective way to have done this would have been to state, "How would you feel if I said: Evolution is a myth created by those that don't want to believe in God. I teach the science of the intricities and organization of intelligent design." Followed by "I do not appreciate my truth being called a myth and a feeling." Same sentiments but communicated in polite and respectful manner. Thank you! I was actually editing my thread when people already started quoting from it. I need to hold off on the submit button. I edit almost every reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanestMomInMidwest Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 My problem is with "created by those who don't want to believe in God." The first version is stating a position of personal belief without casting aspersions or speaking to the motivation of others. :iagree: Post shortened & bolded for my emphasis. And, just to hasten the inevitable locking of the thread I guess I'll add that I teach evolution and I *want* to believe in god. Evolutionary facts are not what is holding me back from belief in a particular doctrine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Evolution is a myth created by those that don't want to believe in God. That's quite an assumption you've made. Surely you must know that there are people who believe in both God and evolution. Or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) FWIW, I would have preferred "Evolution is a myth. I teach..." or "I teach... and cover Evolution as a myth." I for one would have had no problems with this expression. My problem is with "created by those who don't want to believe in God." The first version is stating a position of personal belief without casting aspersions or speaking to the motivation of others. See above. I will not apologize for my viewpoint. Please note that I did not say "Christian myths," or indeed specify any religion or other belief system. Nor did I jump on anyone for speaking of "Truth," and wouldn't in the context of a thread about personal beliefs and how we handle these in a educational context. Nmoira, I am sorry I singled you out. There are indeed myths of creation in different cultures. They cannot all be the truth, as they are not all the same. And you have been very polite about all of this. I can agree that my statement could have been worded differently. But the basis is the same. But I do see the basic sentiment of this board is to accept athiest, agnostic or non-Christian views without comment such as: #35 I don't know. Nor do I think that any human can or will ever know. It is all theory, never to be proven for one side or another. #53 Humans created gods as a coping skill for living with the anxiety and stress of an indifferent universe. But the same type of sentiment that is directed upon a group with a differing belief from a Christian's (but not all, actually, not even mine) view is seen as very derogatory, and pounced upon. #158 I have seen it over and over and over again. Atheists and agnostics can say what they want as fact, stating that Christians beliefs are not based on fact or evidence and they are not pounced upon. Edited February 3, 2009 by Lovedtodeath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 FWIW, I would have preferred "Evolution is a myth. I teach..." or "I teach... and cover Evolution as a myth." I for one would have had no problems with this expression. My problem is with "created by those who don't want to believe in God." The first version is stating a position of personal belief without casting aspersions or speaking to the motivation of others. See above. I will not apologize for my viewpoint. Please note that I did not say "Christian myths," or indeed specify any religion or other belief system. Nor did I jump on anyone for speaking of "Truth," and wouldn't in the context of a thread about personal beliefs and how we handle these in a educational context. You certainly don't have to apologize for your viewpoint; I was in no way asking you to do that nor would I dream of trying to change your mind. I just thought it was interesting (but not atypical) that someone points out the offensiveness they felt in that phrasing and they're jumped all over and then called out for being inflammatory. It really didn't have anything to do with you personally, or your beliefs. The whole incident really just proved that in order for people to get along here, no one can ascribe to an absolute truth. It has to be watered down for the sake of peace, because over the past year, the respect that used to at least appear to be in place here has completely eroded into an us vs. them mentality. In fact, calling this board a hive is really a misnomer; there are way too many conflicting view points and too little respect for the right of others to believe differently for this board to really be a "hive" anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilyK Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I also managed not to be offended by others' discussing what they perceive as truth or fact. That would be fine if all religions were treated equally on this board. I remember back when I had no idea what a "pagan" was, I posted something about Zeus , Athena, etc. being myth. I was quickly schooled by several pagans who informed me about pagans on this board and their beliefs. I quickly apologized and have refrained from referring to their beliefs as myth, folklore, etc., and I believe the board as a whole accords them the same respect. Christianity however, is always fair game, and usually made fair game by the same group of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 You certainly don't have to apologize for your viewpoint; I was in no way asking you to do that nor would I dream of trying to change your mind. I just thought it was interesting (but not atypical) that someone points out the offensiveness they felt in that phrasing and they're jumped all over and then called out for being inflammatory. It really didn't have anything to do with you personally, or your beliefs. The whole incident really just proved that in order for people to get along here, no one can ascribe to an absolute truth. It has to be watered down for the sake of peace, because over the past year, the respect that used to at least appear to be in place here has completely eroded into an us vs. them mentality. In fact, calling this board a hive is really a misnomer; there are way too many conflicting view points and too little respect for the right of others to believe differently for this board to really be a "hive" anymore. Wow, that sounds really sad. While I have found many strong personalities on here, and gotton into my fair share of disagreements (pee is funny), I haven't been tempted to see this as a total loss. I have to reconsider and REALLY think about where I stand on things. I have to review my beliefs and normally my belief is stronger for all this. I have also changed my mind on things, or found I have no idea about something I used to think I knew (the trinity?). Don't hive mates pick off the weak ones for the sake of the hive as a whole.... :001_huh: :lol: Okay, bad example, but I don't think it's as bad as all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 You certainly don't have to apologize for your viewpoint; I was in no way asking you to do that nor would I dream of trying to change your mind. I just thought it was interesting (but not atypical) that someone points out the offensiveness they felt in that phrasing and they're jumped all over and then called out for being inflammatory. It really didn't have anything to do with you personally, or your beliefs. The whole incident really just proved that in order for people to get along here, no one can ascribe to an absolute truth. It has to be watered down for the sake of peace, because over the past year, the respect that used to at least appear to be in place here has completely eroded into an us vs. them mentality. In fact, calling this board a hive is really a misnomer; there are way too many conflicting view points and too little respect for the right of others to believe differently for this board to really be a "hive" anymore. You know what? I need to stop being a trouble maker. I totally agree with you and I think maybe I am adding to the problem instead of helping it?:001_huh: When I first came on these boards I was getting along great with others of all faiths. I don't know why we all have to be quick to take offense now. I have to review my beliefs and normally my belief is stronger for all this. Very true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbie Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 We are Christian, but welcome other viewpoints, personally I think they all lead to one"Truth". On the political scale, dh and I are on opposite ends, so they see both sides. Now, this point just came up in dd's poli. class, re privacy rights. It involved abortion, civil rights and gay rights. Having to explain abortion pretty touchy, but gay rights and private behind closed doors issues. I had to censure. I just am not open to discussing private acts w/child, but these have to do w/court cases and opposing views. I think there is a line, and like I explained a need to know basis. ' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanestMomInMidwest Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 That would be fine if all religions were treated equally on this board. I remember back when I had no idea what a "pagan" was, I posted something about Zeus , Athena, etc. being myth. I was quickly schooled by several pagans who informed me about pagans on this board and their beliefs. I quickly apologized and have refrained from referring to their beliefs as myth, folklore, etc., and I believe the board as a whole accords them the same respect. Christianity however, is always fair game, and usually made fair game by the same group of people. Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you (falsely) because of me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elaine Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I read all 7 pages of responses, and have to say that I really don't teach my children opposing viewpoints to my beliefs, or our family's beliefs. I spend most of my time teaching OUR beliefs. They manage to come up with the opposing beliefs just fine on their own. :) Certainly I do teach about other people groups, and other cultures. Naturally I teach about scientific concepts like evolution and the fossil record. Absolutely I teach them logic, and debate, and thus encourage them to research any argument an opposition might present in order to appropriately counter those arguments. (But none of that is outside our belief system.) But do I make a conscious effort to teach them opposing beliefs? Not at all. I spent an inordinate amount of time teaching them why we believe what we believe, why we live the way we live, and why we make the choices we make. I also corrected their mistakes along the way within the context of those choices. I find I am unteaching counter-family cultural beliefs most of the time, particularly now that they are 19 and 16 years old, and confirming their own choices within the framework of beliefs we hold. We have a lot of , "Mom, am I doing the right thing?" or "Why doesn't ANYONE else treat others like XX?" or "Whatever happened to YY behavior?" conversations, and I get to remind them that we have beliefs that don't fit the typical people in the world. It's okay, and it's worth it, of course. But pretty much anyone they talk with is willing to teach them other beliefs! Lori What a fabulous post!:001_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Marple Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) To answer the original question and not debate the other sub-threads, I would say, Yes, I do teach other POV, Religions, etc. to the degree that I am able and at a time which the kids can comprehend the information. That means that we discuss basic doctrinal differences, basic belief differences, etc. at a younger age, and more moral issues at an older age (abortion, etc.). While I will try to represent the other POVs as truthfully as possible (and using original sources if possible), I'm not sure I'm completely adequate. And there are times when I must admit I don't know the answer. The knowledge of beliefs of others is no threat to my beliefs. And, if I want my children to embrace my beliefs, I should understand what I believe and why I believe it and be able to answer questions about that belief. I should know what others might find illogical about my beliefs and I should be able to defend those beliefs. If we cannot discuss these topics with our children while we have them home, how can we expect them to function in a world of opposing worldviews when they are on their own? I think of it similarly to s*x education. Do I want my kids to learn about it from the kids down the road? No, so I better figure out how to discuss it with them and answer their questions. Our belief system is no less important than our idea of s*x. Today we discussed Aristotle's view of happiness and politics. While I agree with many of his points, I disagree with others. Our class discussion centered around how some of his beliefs were in line with a Biblical Worldview and how other ideas started out to be good (and by this I mean our interpretation of the Biblical worldview) but took a strange turn and ended up in a way we would call wrong. We discussed the idea of whether children are blank slates, why Hitler wasn't happy in Aristotle's viewpoint, is the Golden Mean really the goal of man? Is it not true that what one man sees as courage would be folly to another?, etc. This class consists of kids age 14 and up. This was an appropriate discussion for this age group. I would not try to discuss this with very young kids. Do I think these kids will embrace Aristotle's worldview? No I don't think so, but if they do, at least they have heard the other side. Edited February 3, 2009 by CynthiaOK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 Girl, were you purposely trying to stir the religious debate pot? ;) Since I know your current area of interest (study), I am pretty sure you weren't but given the recent closed thread, come on? :D I don't give this one the rest of the day. I see a train wreck comin' on and I am gettin' outta dodge. :auto: Wait...what recent thread? Did I miss something interesting? Off to search... No I wasn't trying to start a debate ;). I just had to do a writing assignment for my class on this topic last week and I wanted to see if what I wrote matched up with what some of your opinions are. It was the same thing as the thread on teaching the Bible in schools. Everyone thinks they know how a certain group will respond and they are wrong. For instance, it is commonly believed that all Christians want the Bible taught in schools but the prevailing opinion on this board was NO WAY. And it is commonly held that most Christian homeschoolers shelter their children to an extremen degree then turn out naive, ignorant children who do not know truth from a whole in the ground. This post proves them all wrong. Many moms, including Christians, do not hide from their children the fact that there is such a thing as someone who is not a Christian, ya know? Awesome responses ladies!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 You all can believe any durned thing you care to, but please (PLEASE) stop corrupting the true meaning of the word "myth" and treating it like a synonym for "falsehood", cuz it ain't. From the OED: Myth 1. A traditional story, typically involving supernatural beings or forces, which embodies and provides an explanation, aetiology, or justification for something such as the early history of a society, a religious belief or ritual, or a natural phenomenon. Now I know the word has been vulgarized in common parlance, but I'm fighting a rear-guard action to reclaim the true and proper meaning of the term. And on a "Classical Education forum" we should maintain some standards, no? That is all. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Very true! Lol, I didn't even see this the first time. I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels like I learn a lot more than I bargain for from this forum. The Pagan Christian stuff had me hopping. I always wanted to be a fairy when I was little (what I thought all 'good' witches really were). The idea that some form of au natural religion could be in line with Christianity was really exciting. Alas, it did not pan out, but I was glad to have heard of it, all the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 The argument I hear is that you are not killing a living thing. That the fetus, or whatever you wish to call it, is not living, therefore it is not an act of murder, you are not killing anything. that's one of the arguments I've heard too. I do not want my daughter to believe that a fetus is not living. I do not want her to believe, as some real morons (none here, that I've read), that the fetus is not 'human' (in which case, what species is it?!?). I want her to know, that life is precious, that the life of an unborn child is a life. I want her to know that ending that life (on purpose, excluding miscarraiges, etc) is murder. While murder may be defined as the un-lawful taking of life, it is also defined as follows: to kill or slaughter inhumanly or barbarously. Until scientists can say that feti are living persons worthy of rights, their 'murder' can fall under the second definition. All the same, I do not want my daughter to approach any woman who has had an abortion as a murderer. I want her to understand what train of thought would lead them to believe that abortion was a viable choice. I want her to be kind and understanding. I do not want her to judge them, that is for God. agreed :) Be that as it may, my daughter is not far enough along in school to even start to comprehend your explanation, but I may copy/paste and save it for later. Interestingly enough, it was just this past year that i realized I had to make a disctinction between haploid and diploid, based on a bioethics book that was trying to make the case for haploid humans.... ;) we're always learning and comprehending new things! Also, whether or not I want to teach ds that the moon is made of green cheese is up to me. I prefer not to have someone call my beliefs a myth. While I appreciate your input, into whether or not I am teaching ds the proper things, I will stick with teaching how I see fit. Thank you!:D sounds good to me :D I do like the fact that as a discussion board we have the opportunity to put forth what we do teach so others can learn from our examples. I'm sure there are plenty of people in this thread that are finding my sig line very apropo about now....:lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilyK Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you (falsely) because of me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven. I;m glad we agree about what is going on in this thread. I agree wholeheartedly with your verse. But this truth does not preclude the command to go and speak forth the words of truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elaine Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) Have Christians said to you that they believe the highest good is avoiding absolutes? Or could that be your mistaken interpretation, influenced by your disagreement with their perspective? Of course most Christians believe the highest good is avoiding absolutes. Can't say that, it'll offend the Muslims. Can't say that, it'll offend the gays. Can't say that, it'll offend the liberals. Look at the state of our great nation, it's pretty obvious. Imagine if peole who call themselves Christians not only read, but actually obeyed God's commands in Exodus. You know, the 10 commandments that are no longer allowed to be posted in the courts? Yes, those. Because why? They are absolutes. The world would be a different place. But this is only my opinion and it's probably wrong. Edited February 4, 2009 by WTM Moderator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5kidsforME Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 You all can believe any durned thing you care to, but please (PLEASE) stop corrupting the true meaning of the word "myth" and treating it like a synonym for "falsehood", cuz it ain't. From the OED: Myth 1. A traditional story, typically involving supernatural beings or forces, which embodies and provides an explanation, aetiology, or justification for something such as the early history of a society, a religious belief or ritual, or a natural phenomenon. Now I know the word has been vulgarized in common parlance, but I'm fighting a rear-guard action to reclaim the true and proper meaning of the term. And on a "Classical Education forum" we should maintain some standards, no? That is all. Bill Now what would a good debate thread be without a good slap on the wrist from Spycar? :tongue_smilie: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbie Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Now what would a good debate thread be without a good slap on the wrist from Spycar? :tongue_smilie: :lol::lol::lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) Interestingly enough, it was just this past year that i realized I had to make a disctinction between haploid and diploid, based on a bioethics book that was trying to make the case for haploid humans.... ;) we're always learning and comprehending new things! I do like the fact that as a discussion board we have the opportunity to put forth what we do teach so others can learn from our examples. I'm sure there are plenty of people in this thread that are finding my sig line very apropo about now....:lol: Oh, sorry, I'm allergic to bioethics. It gives me hives. ;) Lol, which one, the warning to others, meow or so not classical etc? Lol, they all appeal to me :) Anyone want some bean dip? You should try it, it's delicious! Edited February 3, 2009 by lionfamily1999 I made bean dip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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