What does Appalachia mean to you?

[KungFuPanda]

I’m from southern WV. Both my parents’ families are from there. I was actually born in Cleveland, compliments of the Hillbilly Highway. There is an entire branch of the family that didn’t move back to WV when the rest returned. Generally a daughter gets married and stays in Ohio and you have a family with deep appalachain roots remaining in that region. This phenomenon is multiplied across hundreds or thousands of families. So the culture would be imbedded there. 
 

One side of my family was academics and the other side was blue collar and musicians. If there are any specific questions about the regions I’d be glad to answer. I’m aware of the stereotypes, but every one of them is something you could find anywhere. I can speak about the brain drain, or how the resources have long been pillaged for the benefit of outsiders. I can tell you what it was like in the 80s (when it was a blue state) vs today. 
 

Most of my family is still there. It’s home in a way Maryland can never be even though I’ve lived here longer. It’s absolutely beautiful and still unusually wild. You can’t trust your GPS there. Also, the part of WV where I grew up is different from Morgantown in the north where WVU is located. 
 
edited to add that there are ZERO big cities in WV. The capital city, Charleston, has less than 50 thousand people. It’s also the most populated “city.”When I lived there the whole state had the same area code  

edited to add a recent photo of my Appalachia taken last month. We went home to spread my brother’s ashes on the New River; the same place as our father’s. I grew up on this river and learned to swim by being tossed in. 

Edited August 22 by KungFuPanda
Area code not zip code

[Ginevra]

5 hours ago, WildflowerMom said:

My family was Appalachian.  To me, it means living more off what you have around you, being close to family and neighbors to make it through tough times, passing down *lots* of stories to the younger set, living on less money than a lot of people do, scratch cooking, helping each other out, telling people where your family is from and no one has ever heard of it, lol.  

Me too. 
 

Only one branch of my family tree was Appalachian but this was how they were. Frugal people. Many with military roots; many other working class. 

[Paige]

I grew up Appalachian adjacent. I'm from a not so hilly city that is technically in an Appalachian Congressional district but nobody there considers themselves Appalachian. My extended family is dispersed among more rural actually Appalachian counties. My neighbors were from even more hillier country. With respect, I consider Appalachia to be hill counties. The more hilly the county, the more Appalachian- there's a spectrum. You know it when you see it. I was born in one of those counties and it's not all Hatfield and McCoy. Some of my family members still used out houses when I was a kid in the 1980s. They were poor. Really really poor. My dad's older siblings literally begged for food going from farm to farm. Some people had addiction issues but most did not. The recent depiction of the area as full of violence and addicts seem really false and is personally offensive to me. Poverty is not synonymous with bad choices and lack of morals. It's hard to escape because escaping means leaving people behind and a lot of people won't do that. My dad escaped but he could only do that by physically leaving his parents and siblings- which he could only do because he was one of the youngest! Some people don't want to escape and it's not because they love their bad choices but it's because they love their community and the land and they actually aren't making bad choices! 

If you move away from the hills, your kids won't be Appalachian because their experiences, environment, and opportunities will be substantially different. I also have family members who live in Middletown and calling them Appalachian is even more laughable than me calling myself Appalachian. When I visited friends and families in the other counties, I was a "city girl" to the other kids. They loved my accent and were impressed with the stores, restaurants, and other things we had- we were friends, but I was not one of them.

[SKL]

I was today years old when I found out my folks live in "Appalachia."  (We moved there when I was 12, so I don't know if can say I'm "from there.")

I can relate to a lot of the cultural stuff.  I just didn't know Appalachia went that far north.

Some of my mom's folks were from deeper Appalachia and fit the stereotypes more.  Though they moved to a big city that wasn't geographically within Appalachia, they still lived a lot of the Appalachian cultural stuff (for better or worse).  Perhaps that's why we all felt pretty happy and comfortable when we moved back to an "Appalachian" area.

As for the political stuff, not that we should be talking about it here, but according to the maps I'm seeing of Ohio's Applachian counties and history, I don't see why people are making such a thing about it.  Well I mean I do know why, but I don't think it has anything to do with geography.

[kbutton]

4 hours ago, Terabith said:

The college that I worked at for three summers in Pikeville had a required speech class for students, not focused on public speaking but on modulating your accent so you could be understood by people outside of Appalachia.  This was around 2000, and it was a real issue.  

I’ve met people from Louisville that I could not understand. The first time it happened, I was with a friend who did have family from a holler, and I thought she was going to die laughing at my utter confusion. 

[QueenCat]

2 hours ago, Paige said:

 

If you move away from the hills, your kids won't be Appalachian because their experiences, environment, and opportunities will be substantially different. I also have family members who live in Middletown and calling them Appalachian is even more laughable than me calling myself Appalachian. When I visited friends and families in the other counties, I was a "city girl" to the other kids. They loved my accent and were impressed with the stores, restaurants, and other things we had- we were friends, but I was not one of them.

Laughable is a good way of putting it.

[Katy]

I come from a part of Florida where multiple family members happily identified as crackers and rednecks. They said both were the names given to the cowboys the Spanish brought in to tend to cattle raised in the Florida woods. Most were Irish (or Scots Irish). The red necks were from the strong Florida sun on pale skin. The cracker term was because the long whips they used to herd made a particularly sharp cracking sound against the palmetto brush. 

This is why Native Floridians still wear western style clothing. That and the boots are super helpful against snakes & other dangerous wildlife. It’s why DeSantis wears cowboy boots. 

The term I always heard for a particular culture of those from the hills to the North (of Florida) is Hillbilly, but idk if it has a similar positive interpretation locally or if it’s an insult. AFAIK the etymology might be from the Beverly Hillbillies. 

Edited August 20 by Katy
Typo

[KungFuPanda]

Y’all, I once had to translate this video for a friend. It’s older than automated YouTube subtitles. 🤣

 

West Virginia Ninja

 

[Elizabeth86]

6 hours ago, Terabith said:

She’s from my town, Roanoke, VA!  We are on the Appalachian Trail (literally the biggest city on it), but we are not culturally or geographically considered Appalachian.  
 

My family lived for two years in Pikeville, Kentucky, home of the Hatfields and McCoys and down the road from Hazard.  You don’t get more Appalachian than that.  Moonshine and coal and poverty the like that doesn’t really exist in other areas of the country.  
 

Pennsylvania has deep Appalachia, too. 

I don’t think I knew you connections to Hazard and Pikeville too. You are right. That’s about as Appalachian as it gets.

[Terabith]

1 minute ago, Elizabeth86 said:

I don’t think I knew you connections to Hazard and Pikeville too. You are right. That’s about as Appalachian as it gets.

My parents moved there from South Dakota after I graduated from high school.  My sister attended 7th and 8th grade in Pikeville.  I was in college but came home on breaks, and I worked at Upward Bound at University of Pikeville every summer of college.  So not like an insider's experience really.  My parents moved to Richmond, Virginia, after two years and then to New Mexico, but I never spent any real amount of time either place.  

[Cecropia]

It might not be relevant to today's Appalachia, but the Foxfire books were very fascinating to young me, and I always think of them when I think of the area.

It was even more educational when I went on a Habitat for Humanity-type service trip to a very poor, rural area of WV.  It was the mid 90's and I was in high school.  I had never seen makeshift grave markers standing in piles of gravel in front yards.  Buildings in various states of disrepair, no plumbing, etc. was somewhat shocking but not as deeply affecting as families caring for, perhaps washing, burying their beloved dead themselves on their own property, just outside their front doors.  How could you ever leave your land...

[Laurel-in-CA]

6 hours ago, kathyl said:

EXACTLY!

Suzette Haden Elgin, who is a linguist and enjoys dialect, wrote a series of books about Ozarkers who had settled another planet (one title in the series that I remember was "Yonder Comes the Other End of Time"). The most independent and reclusive of them were called "Boones." She's also written several other sci fi books that focus on the power of language. Just an aside, don't mind me.

Appalachia -- I would have to say Christy and Foxfire.

[LaughingCat]

I grew up in Blacksburg, Va (college town of VA Tech, Roanoke is the nearest city, in the Appalachian Mountains) -- so Appalachian adjacent (but definitely not from an Appalachian family -my parents both grew up in Los Angeles).  What I tend to think of is lots of extremely small 'towns' -- as in blink and you missed it. Blacksburg, at size of 15k when we moved there was considered very large and Roanoke, the nearest 'big city' was less than 100k.  The east coast is SO much more populated than the west where I live now -- but even so, the Blue Ridge Mountains were not citified but full of teeny tiny 'towns (hamlets I think of them as now, but don't remember us calling them that -- they were towns, even as you blew by them on the road in 2 seconds).  A store, a church and a gas station together meant it was a big town.  One of my friends in college (at Va Tech) graduated from a high school graduating class of 4 people.  Very typical as I remember it (or alternatively -- as Blacksburg schools were for many, bussed for an hour to get to school). 

My husband's Dad grew up in WVa in a house with pumped water in the kitchen and an outhouse bathroom.  Ironically, he grew up in Middletown (and his Mom and sister live there now) -- but he and his sister do not consider themselves Appalachian in any way (related to Appalachians yes, including great stories of visits, but actually Appalachian no). ETA: Hillbilly Elegy is 100% NOT my husband's life experience.  Blue collar yes, addiction etc NO.

I have definitely have had to 'translate' for the accent as well (in person though, for visiting friends) and although I would have said I didn't have an accent at all when I lived there that is clearly false because I pick parts of it back up as soon as I hear it (thanks, @KungFuPanda 😆)

Edited August 20 by LaughingCat

[LaughingCat]

Also, wanted to add that middle of nowhere tiny town feeling I remember is something Middletown lacks big time.  I've visited Middletown, OH many times now (visiting DH's family) and although Middletown population is only 50k, it comes across like a suburb of Cincinnati. 45 min away (300k) and Dayton, 30 min away (150k) and not at all like a small town in the middle of nowhere.  

Even now, although Blacksburg has grown a LOT (up to 50k according to google, same as Middletown --due to VA Tech I'm sure)-- the nearest city Roanoke, 45 min away, still googles as the same size it was back in the 70's, ~ 100k - and there are still no other 'bigger' cities nearby. So Blacksburg is still more middle of nowhere than MIddletown. And that is just Appalachia adjacent. There are plenty of western VA, southwest PA, northwest NC and definitely ALL of WVa (as @KungFuPanda says above Charleston is the biggest city at less than 50k) that have WAY WAY more of that miniature town middle of nowhere (hamlet) feel.  So IMO it doesn't matter if all your ancestors grew up in Appalachia --if you grew up in Middletown,  you just don't have the living out in the middle of nowhere feeling needed to understand being Appalachian.

Not to mention, it is part of being Appalachian (or Appalachian adjacent) that it must take forever on little winding roads through the mountains to get anywhere.  (Heck, there are way bigger mountains where I live now, but they just don't understand winding here 🤣)

So that's my 'grew up Appalachian adjacent' and 'married to a Middletownian with Appalachian ancestry' take on whether Middletown can be considered a cultural outpost of Appalachia 😄 

[SKL]

I think the question of more relevance is what environment the person's mom grew up in, rather than how a certain place feels today, presumably at least 60 years later.  A lot changes in several generations.

[Eos]

14 hours ago, Terabith said:

home of the Hatfields and McCoys and down the road from Hazard.  You don’t get more Appalachian than that.  Moonshine and coal and poverty the like that doesn’t really exist in other areas of the country.  

Dh is a McCoy 🙂 His grandfather was a coal miner in TN. 

 

7 hours ago, Cecropia said:

How could you ever leave your land...

This sums up his family roots. MIL moved there when she first married his father, to a cabin without running water or electricity and washed diapers in the creek. She couldn't deal with it and wanted to move back home to the east coast but dh's father couldn't leave his land and kin. They split up for which she endured years of disapproval by her family.

Connection to family and nature, comfort with guns, enveloping religiosity, and being truly poor is how I think of the area near his family. Dh says he loves it in part because there are no rich people there.

[saraha]

12 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

Y’all, I once had to translate this video for a friend. It’s older than automated YouTube subtitles. 🤣

 

West Virginia Ninja

 

We have been giggling about this all morning. From now on when we drop ds12 at karate, my parting words are going to be “Now don’t go ninjin nobody that don’t need ninjin” 😆

[PaxEtLux]

Appalachia means "Dolly Parton" to me.

[QueenCat]

8 hours ago, Eos said:

 

Connection to family and nature, comfort with guns, enveloping religiosity, and being truly poor is how I think of the area near his family. Dh says he loves it in part because there are no rich people there.

WOW! That's awful to hear he is prejudiced against people just because they are wealthy. Just WOW. That would be akin to someone with money saying they love a place because there are no poor people there. 

And before anyone rears their heads, I get that people choose where they live based on many factors, including money. I've just never heard someone say such a thing out loud. 

[Clemsondana]

I live in east TN, just a few miles from the Museum of Appalachia.  I think that, like the terms 'Southern', 'New Yorker', or 'Californian' that encompass a lot of different subcultures, people can have different experiences in Appalachia, an area that has undergone a lot of change in the past few years.  They are in the process of building several hundred houses on a plot of land on my street, which is so narrow that cars have to go to one side to pass because there is no middle line.  The intended connection from that neighborhood to the main road that will take people to the interstate is 2 lanes, and they've added a stop light.  When I first visited the area 17 years ago, it was far less populated.  25 years ago it was served by a general store but we now have a giant Ingles and a Super Kroger on opposite sides of the interstate on-ramp.  

Most people in our immediate area aren't mountain people, although there are some with that background.  People live in neighborhoods, but even in an area very close to a major university it also isn't unusual to need to wind 10 minutes off a main road to get to somebody's house.  Many people, including us, prefer to live on a few acres and gardens are common.  People tend to be independent, with strong family connections but also incredible generosity.  When a fire devastated Sevierville several years ago, people turned out in droves to help or donate.  Relief agencies said that usually volunteers stop coming to a disaster after a few weeks, but they were booked with help for 6 months until it was time to change their focus away from immediate recovery.  People also are quick to help on their own, rather than going through agencies.  There is a local facebook group run by a mom where people post things that they have to donate, or needs that they have (for items like baby clothes or a washing machine) and people can get it taken care of.  She also takes $ for specific needs - somebody needs $67 to keep their lights on, etc.  It's not unusual for somebody to post in the local groups 'Has anybody seen the homeless guy, Sam, who usually hangs out at the gas station?  I stopped by with some food for his dog and didn't see him' and somebody will reply 'I was talking to him the other day, and somebody set him up with...' or whatever.  People don't necessarily DIY their own home repairs, but the DIY mentality is still pretty typical of how people approach life.  

I think that, due to similarity and proximity, Appalachia and the rust belt have kind of merged even though there are cultural differences - both areas with people who have plenty but also poverty due to changes in industry.  People are working to help, but it isn't always easy.  My kid had a ball coach, a college kid, from a coal town in KY.  He and his now-wife graduated from college and went home to teach and coach.  They want to bring commerce to the area, and organized a ball tournament group as part of supplementing their income that has some of its games in the small towns in KY instead of all of them being in the bigger towns.  They are fun to play at - nice people, beautiful scenery - and I know that having another 50-200 people eating at the restaurants and buying gas for a weekend helped.  A local lawyer that we know through sports is from a small town in Ohio, and he talks about being glad that he got out and could move his mom here because drugs have totally demolished the place.  I know that he wasn't far from WV so it's possible that it was initially a coal town but it could have had some other industry at one time.  I've also lived in WV, which is definitely in what most people consider Appalachia, but I don't know that I ever heard the term used in that area.  I definitely heard the term hillbilly.  I've moved several times and am not really native to anywhere, but I love it here.  My experience might be different in a tiny town rather than this area of rapid growth that I currently live in.    

[kbutton]

3 hours ago, QueenCat said:

That would be akin to someone with money saying they love a place because there are no poor people there. 

And before anyone rears their heads, I get that people choose where they live based on many factors, including money. I've just never heard someone say such a thing out loud. 

Not saying it doesn’t mean it’s any less true a lot of the time. Poor areas and people are probably 90% of the reason things like HOAs and zoning exist.

And rich is relative. There are nice people at all economic levels, but the reality is that socializing without people across economic lines is difficult. We’re middle class with a good income, but we spend most of our disposable income on medical stuff. Even before that, we were frugal as neither of us grew up with lots of extra (and we didn’t grow up grindingly poor, though we both had extended family in those categories). We don’t fit with our “peers.” The people with similar incomes rarely do anything that isn’t pay to play (which we can’t afford and would not choose to do often if we could—it’s not how we were brought up), and we don’t socially run into people with lower incomes because that is reality. We live in a unicorn neighborhood that is very middle of the road, but there are very few neighborhoods around here like it. 

Our younger son attended school for two years on a scholarship with people who would be thought of as our peers if we didn’t have such high medical expenses, and there was zero chance of fitting in, and it was all about money and cluelessness that not everyone has it to spend. Pay to play.

The way I grew up, I honestly feel like asking someone out for coffee could potentially be undue financial pressure, though ice cream was usually fine. Or meeting up at a festival where you could spend money or not without pressuring the other person. We never went out to eat with other people except for sometimes a family birthday agreed upon ahead of time. Schools didn’t do elaborate trips and such except as sort of a rite of passage, and those trips were largely accomplished via fund raisers. Sports and band were paid for by boosters at all levels.

Upper middle class people here have yard sales that are a joke—they want to get a return on every penny for something old and used. The better sales are often in less nice neighborhoods, ironically. And when I was growing up, yard sales were rare because people used their stuff up or gave it away to friends who could use it.

A WTM friend once remarked to me that it can be exhausting being around people who never met a problem that money can’t solve. It’s true.

I don’t dislike rich people, but I have zero trouble understanding the sentiment. I’m sure I am that rich person to someone else even though I try not to be.

[kbutton]

3 hours ago, Clemsondana said:

People also are quick to help on their own, rather than going through agencies.

Yep!

Even for “official” stuff that is “someone else’s job.” Is the track covered with 18” of snow in the spring? Then the first track practice came with the instructions to bring a shovel.

 

[KungFuPanda]

16 hours ago, LaughingCat said:

Also, wanted to add that middle of nowhere tiny town feeling I remember is something Middletown lacks big time.  I've visited Middletown, OH many times now (visiting DH's family) and although Middletown population is only 50k, it comes across like a suburb of Cincinnati. 45 min away (300k) and Dayton, 30 min away (150k) and not at all like a small town in the middle of nowhere.  

Even now, although Blacksburg has grown a LOT (up to 50k according to google, same as Middletown --due to VA Tech I'm sure)-- the nearest city Roanoke, 45 min away, still googles as the same size it was back in the 70's, ~ 100k - and there are still no other 'bigger' cities nearby. So Blacksburg is still more middle of nowhere than MIddletown. And that is just Appalachia adjacent. There are plenty of western VA, southwest PA, northwest NC and definitely ALL of WVa (as @KungFuPanda says above Charleston is the biggest city at less than 50k) that have WAY WAY more of that miniature town middle of nowhere (hamlet) feel.  So IMO it doesn't matter if all your ancestors grew up in Appalachia --if you grew up in Middletown,  you just don't have the living out in the middle of nowhere feeling needed to understand being Appalachian.

Not to mention, it is part of being Appalachian (or Appalachian adjacent) that it must take forever on little winding roads through the mountains to get anywhere.  (Heck, there are way bigger mountains where I live now, but they just don't understand winding here 🤣)

So that's my 'grew up Appalachian adjacent' and 'married to a Middletownian with Appalachian ancestry' take on whether Middletown can be considered a cultural outpost of Appalachia 😄 

I don’t think a lot of people know what it means to “straighten the curves” and that we do it all the time; especially at night.  They also might have forgotten what it’s like to be without cell service in some locations. That photo I posted above is in an area with no service  it just doesn’t exist.  You get all your messages and texts when you drive up the hill.

 

 

[SKL]

12 hours ago, kbutton said:

Not saying it doesn’t mean it’s any less true a lot of the time. Poor areas and people are probably 90% of the reason things like HOAs and zoning exist.

And rich is relative. There are nice people at all economic levels, but the reality is that socializing without people across economic lines is difficult. We’re middle class with a good income, but we spend most of our disposable income on medical stuff. Even before that, we were frugal as neither of us grew up with lots of extra (and we didn’t grow up grindingly poor, though we both had extended family in those categories). We don’t fit with our “peers.” The people with similar incomes rarely do anything that isn’t pay to play (which we can’t afford and would not choose to do often if we could—it’s not how we were brought up), and we don’t socially run into people with lower incomes because that is reality. We live in a unicorn neighborhood that is very middle of the road, but there are very few neighborhoods around here like it. 

Our younger son attended school for two years on a scholarship with people who would be thought of as our peers if we didn’t have such high medical expenses, and there was zero chance of fitting in, and it was all about money and cluelessness that not everyone has it to spend. Pay to play.

The way I grew up, I honestly feel like asking someone out for coffee could potentially be undue financial pressure, though ice cream was usually fine. Or meeting up at a festival where you could spend money or not without pressuring the other person. We never went out to eat with other people except for sometimes a family birthday agreed upon ahead of time. Schools didn’t do elaborate trips and such except as sort of a rite of passage, and those trips were largely accomplished via fund raisers. Sports and band were paid for by boosters at all levels.

Upper middle class people here have yard sales that are a joke—they want to get a return on every penny for something old and used. The better sales are often in less nice neighborhoods, ironically. And when I was growing up, yard sales were rare because people used their stuff up or gave it away to friends who could use it.

A WTM friend once remarked to me that it can be exhausting being around people who never met a problem that money can’t solve. It’s true.

I don’t dislike rich people, but I have zero trouble understanding the sentiment. I’m sure I am that rich person to someone else even though I try not to be.

I can relate.  As a child / young adult, I used the term "spoiled rich brats" in ways that were probably often unfair (but not always!).  Cluelessness abounds, though it's not anyone's fault and it goes both ways.  I experienced this when I went to an expensive grad school on scholarship.

And I'm sure a lot of folks on WTM think I'm one of "those people," because in this stage of my life, I'm investing in experiences for myself and my kids.

Apparently I'm raising spoiled, entitled brats too.  It's strange.  They will never understand where I came from, and I'm not sure whether that's good, bad, or both.

Of course, I understand life a lot better now, and I don't judge people by their wealth.  Clearly everyone has human joys and struggles, no matter how rich or poor they are.  Some of my richest friends have a very tough row to hoe, and I know some think money solves everything, but it really doesn't.

[Carrie12345]

On 8/19/2024 at 10:21 AM, saraha said:

What does Appalachian mean to you?

As a non-Appalachian living in technically Appalachian mountains (app uh LAY shin here), my first thought is always of the geography.

Culturally, Appalachian (app uh LAH chin), conjures up all the stereotypes for me. Similar to if you were to ask about any other cultural region of the US, like New Orleans. I have a working understanding of history, change, and diversity, but my mind goes to the most prominent stories of the roots.

Even where I grew up for nearly 20 years and where I’ve been living for nearly 20 years, I think of these places more about how they came to be compared to what they are today. Mostly because, today, they no longer have a well-defined culture or lifestyle of their own. They’ve shifted with time and modern “needs” and they’ll continue to do so. But their history will always be what it was.

[saraha]

13 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

I don’t think a lot of people know what it means to “straighten the curves” and that we do it all the time; especially at night.  They also might have forgotten what it’s like to be without cell service in some locations. That photo I posted above is in an area with no service  it just doesn’t exist.  You get all your messages and texts when you drive up the hill.

 

 

I was in a hurry yesterday and dd21 started singing that section of the dukes of hazard theme. 😆 And yes to any call you’re on while driving. People don’t even get upset. I’ll regularly be talking to dh and say I’m coming up on the dip and he knows exactly where I am and that he might lose me. The kids are learning the service spots to make sure they touch base while out “hey momma, I’m headed to x so calling now” kind of thing.

Because of this thread there have been lots of little conversations at home the last few days. Dh’s contributions have mostly been silly but when the kids were teasing us about our grandparent names at dinner, I reiterated I did not want to be called anything other than grandma and dh said “See, you can’t be Appalachian if you don’t want to be somebodies granny or meemaw” my mom is grandma and his mom is mamaw.

Another comment was by dd19 that it seems like nobody from Appalachia says Appalachia. It’s people from somewhere else.

Dd21 moves back to school this weekend and was packing a box with pint size jars of green beans and other stuff she helped me can so far. I asked her if she would feel weird putting all that in their shared pantry and she said “Nope, and it will keep anyone from “borrowing” any of it til we get to know one another”. Dh walked up behind me and being silly whispered “Nope, not Appalachian” 😆

But really, these little side conversations have been interesting for me and for the kids. We don’t really discuss family culture etc specifically, but I have heard them making comments the last few days, sometimes trying to suss out what is our unique family culture and what is part of our regional culture. It has also lead to some interest into my childhood and comments like “I forget you aren’t from here mom and you had such a different life” sometimes pertaining to my family culture and sometimes to the areas/circumstances I grew up in. We’ve also talked about the area and culture surrounding dh’s and my college and how different that is even though labeled the same. Dh said the way I talk about all of it sounds like an outside observer and thinking about it too hard is what keeps me on the outside. At one point he told the kids “we are from Appalachia, that is a fact. But spending time analyzing and comparing and thinking too hard about it might cause an us and them attitude, so don’t think about it too hard and just be nice to everyone.” That comment was interesting to me, I wonder if somehow all this talk makes him uncomfortable. But I’ll never know.

[Innisfree]

13 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

I don’t think a lot of people know what it means to “straighten the curves” and that we do it all the time; especially at night.

I *think* I understand that phrase, but could you elaborate, please? Are you talking about straightening curves on mountain roads? I have to confess that it terrifies me when people do that: I approach a blind curve, and suddenly a car is coming from the opposite direction, halfway in my lane, usually pretty fast. Is there something I should know or do as a less-frequent driver on those roads to make it safer?

[Ottakee]

3 hours ago, Innisfree said:

I *think* I understand that phrase, but could you elaborate, please? Are you talking about straightening curves on mountain roads? I have to confess that it terrifies me when people do that: I approach a blind curve, and suddenly a car is coming from the opposite direction, halfway in my lane, usually pretty fast. Is there something I should know or do as a less-frequent driver on those roads to make it safer?

Yes that is what it means in my rural west Michigan area….but at night you can see the headlights…..

[Innisfree]

35 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

Yes that is what it means in my rural west Michigan area….but at night you can see the headlights…..

Thanks. So, I guess you slow down, fast?

When it’s happened to me recently it wasn’t night time. We had a rock face on one side of the road and a steep downhill slope on the other (shuddering at the recollection). There wasn’t anything to do but slam on the brakes and hope the other car got back in its lane… which it did, but, wow. There wasn’t much margin for error.

I’m not interested in being culturally intolerant, but my not-very-experienced young adult driver is going to be on some of these roads regularly, so if there’s advice I should give her, I’m all ears.

[KungFuPanda]

6 hours ago, saraha said:

I was in a hurry yesterday and dd21 started singing that section of the dukes of hazard theme. 😆 And yes to any call you’re on while driving. People don’t even get upset. I’ll regularly be talking to dh and say I’m coming up on the dip and he knows exactly where I am and that he might lose me. The kids are learning the service spots to make sure they touch base while out “hey momma, I’m headed to x so calling now” kind of thing.

Because of this thread there have been lots of little conversations at home the last few days. Dh’s contributions have mostly been silly but when the kids were teasing us about our grandparent names at dinner, I reiterated I did not want to be called anything other than grandma and dh said “See, you can’t be Appalachian if you don’t want to be somebodies granny or meemaw” my mom is grandma and his mom is mamaw.

Another comment was by dd19 that it seems like nobody from Appalachia says Appalachia. It’s people from somewhere else.

Dd21 moves back to school this weekend and was packing a box with pint size jars of green beans and other stuff she helped me can so far. I asked her if she would feel weird putting all that in their shared pantry and she said “Nope, and it will keep anyone from “borrowing” any of it til we get to know one another”. Dh walked up behind me and being silly whispered “Nope, not Appalachian” 😆

But really, these little side conversations have been interesting for me and for the kids. We don’t really discuss family culture etc specifically, but I have heard them making comments the last few days, sometimes trying to suss out what is our unique family culture and what is part of our regional culture. It has also lead to some interest into my childhood and comments like “I forget you aren’t from here mom and you had such a different life” sometimes pertaining to my family culture and sometimes to the areas/circumstances I grew up in. We’ve also talked about the area and culture surrounding dh’s and my college and how different that is even though labeled the same. Dh said the way I talk about all of it sounds like an outside observer and thinking about it too hard is what keeps me on the outside. At one point he told the kids “we are from Appalachia, that is a fact. But spending time analyzing and comparing and thinking too hard about it might cause an us and them attitude, so don’t think about it too hard and just be nice to everyone.” That comment was interesting to me, I wonder if somehow all this talk makes him uncomfortable. But I’ll never know.

Do you ever watch the Celebrating Appalachia YouTube channel? Sometimes they do lists or words or phrases and their definitions. The conversation at my house goes like this: 

CA: This word means this

me: Everybody uses that one!

dh(from NYC): No they don’t. 
 

I’m still trying to parse out what’s common knowledge and what’s regional because so many things just sound so normal to me that I don’t question them. 
 

 

Edited August 21 by KungFuPanda

[KungFuPanda]

Here’s a super Appalachian story about when I went home in July for my brother’s memorial.  My other brother camped on the river that week. His kids and any nieces and nephews camped with him whatever days they wanted to. They did this knowing there was no cell service. The place we always camped as kids is still pretty undeveloped but now it’s part of the national park system so campsites and bathrooms with porcelain toilets have been added.  Other people stayed with mom. Some nights she had zero guests and some nights she had eight.  It fluctuated. 
 

We took the niece-in-law who had never left Colorado to the exhibition coal mine so she could do the tour and ride a coal cart into the mines.  An old marine veteran was set up signing a book he wrote. I bought a book, traded service stories with him, and found out he’s my aunt’s cousin.  Like me his path was joining the service, leaving the state, getting a degree with the GI bill, then living and working somewhere besides WV that had white collar jobs available (hence the brain drain). He returned “home” to retire. 
 

DH and I stayed in THE most teched-up air bnb I’ve ever experienced. (DH needed to work a bit and mom’s internet isn’t great) It was amazing (and had high speed internet). Mom was worried because it was in a “bad neighborhood.” This means we did in fact see not one, but TWO meth heads walk by at some point. We walk around Baltimore and DC at night so we were not stressed. I did do a double take because this wasn’t a problem when I lived there in the 80s. 
 

The memorial itself turned into a multiday family reunion. We scattered ashes on the river.  We toasted with Jack Daniel’s. We’re the first generation to consider cremation an option and some of the older relatives are scandalized about this. 
 

The day we left, mom made gravy and biscuits for everyone. We had that every weekend growing up. Usually when I visit mom, at some point I make a fried bologna sandwich  because I get an irrational craving. 

These experiences felt super normal to me but my husband and kids always thought these trips to WV were wildly different from our lives in the MD suburbs. 

[Ottakee]

5 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

Do you ever watch the Celebrating Appalachia YouTube channel? Sometimes they do lists or words or phrases and their definitions. The conversation at my house goes like this: 

CA: This word means this

me: Everybody uses that one!

dh(from NYC): No they don’t. 
 

I’m still trying to parse out what’s common knowledge and what’s regional because so many things just sound so normal to me that I don’t question them. 
 

 

I knew about half of them.  

[Just Kate]

On 8/19/2024 at 4:43 PM, KungFuPanda said:

edited to add that there are ZERO big cities in WV. The capital city, Charleston, has less than 50 thousand people. It’s also the most populated “city.”When I lived there the whole state had the same zip code  

edited to add a recent photo of my Appalachia taken last month. We went home to spread my brother’s ashes on the New River; the same place as our father’s. I grew up on this river and learned to swim by being tossed in. 

First, what a beautiful photo. I have lived in WV for most of my life (with the exception of 10 years when I lived in Columbus, OH after getting married). We love the New River and how special that you spread your brother’s and dad’s ashes there. 
 

But I have to ask…when did you live in WV? I was born here (in the Charleston aera) and live in my hometown now. I have never known the entire state to have the same zip code. Maybe you mean area code? Surprisingly, there is now a second area code in the state. 
 

The funny thing about my town is that my family has been here for years (many generations back), but when I moved back here after living in Columbus for 10 years, it felt like a different place. Most of the people I know now through church or the kids school aren’t from here. Some from other parts of WV but many from out of state. When I grew up, it felt a little more stereotypical of what we all “know” about Appalachia. But now, it almost feels like just another very small midwestern town. 

[pinball]

11 minutes ago, Just Kate said:

But I have to ask…when did you live in WV? I was born here (in the Charleston aera) and live in my hometown now. I have never known the entire state to have the same zip code. Maybe you mean area code? Surprisingly, there is now a second area code in the state. 

I think she meant area code…their second area code was added in 2009

[Just Kate]

3 minutes ago, pinball said:

I think she meant area code…their second area code was added in 2009

Yup, I think that’s what she meant to, as I clearly remember the second area code being added. 

[livetoread]

5 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

He returned “home” to retire. 

My maternal grandparents did this. They both grew up in WV, met and married, and then moved to DC for my grandfather's federal gov't job. My mother was born and raised in DC, but after my grandfather retired, my grandparents moved back to WV. Forty years after leaving, they still wanted to retire in their "home".

[KungFuPanda]

17 hours ago, Just Kate said:

First, what a beautiful photo. I have lived in WV for most of my life (with the exception of 10 years when I lived in Columbus, OH after getting married). We love the New River and how special that you spread your brother’s and dad’s ashes there. 
 

But I have to ask…when did you live in WV? I was born here (in the Charleston aera) and live in my hometown now. I have never known the entire state to have the same zip code. Maybe you mean area code? Surprisingly, there is now a second area code in the state. 
 

The funny thing about my town is that my family has been here for years (many generations back), but when I moved back here after living in Columbus for 10 years, it felt like a different place. Most of the people I know now through church or the kids school aren’t from here. Some from other parts of WV but many from out of state. When I grew up, it felt a little more stereotypical of what we all “know” about Appalachia. But now, it almost feels like just another very small midwestern town. 

 

17 hours ago, pinball said:

I think she meant area code…their second area code was added in 2009

I definitely meant area code. Thanks for catching that. All one zip code WOULD be tiny. I think people are usually surprised at how big WV is. It doesn’t take up much space on the map, but if you flattened it out it would be huge. It can take forever to get places and the gps just lies to you. 
 

@Just Kate, what part of the state are you from? I grew up in Raleigh County. I don’t think it’s a part that people move to without family connections. I have been living elsewhere for a long time so I might be wrong. It’s just so far from everything.  I know people who commute to my area of Maryland from the eastern panhandle, but you can’t really do that from the bottom of the state. 

Edited August 22 by KungFuPanda

[kbutton]

19 hours ago, Just Kate said:

First, what a beautiful photo. I have lived in WV for most of my life (with the exception of 10 years when I lived in Columbus, OH after getting married). We love the New River

It has a “twin” gorge in PA. The Pine Creek Gorge (“PA Grand Canyon”) in Tioga County looks very similar. I think both are in the Allegheny range (sub-range of the Appalachians—not sure of the precise terms). I live closer to New River now, so I see vacation pics from people here who go there, and my first instinct looking at terrain is always that it’s the one in PA, and then I catch myself, lol! The gorges themselves have some differences that are apparent at a glance, but generic pictures that aren’t from a specific lookout area are really similar!

People who’ve been to both remark on how similar it looks.

[KungFuPanda]

1 hour ago, kbutton said:

It has a “twin” gorge in PA. The Pine Creek Gorge (“PA Grand Canyon”) in Tioga County looks very similar. I think both are in the Allegheny range (sub-range of the Appalachians—not sure of the precise terms). I live closer to New River now, so I see vacation pics from people here who go there, and my first instinct looking at terrain is always that it’s the one in PA, and then I catch myself, lol! The gorges themselves have some differences that are apparent at a glance, but generic pictures that aren’t from a specific lookout area are really similar!

People who’ve been to both remark on how similar it looks.

Ok, but do you have an awesome bridge that gets half shut down for a festival every year? 

[kbutton]

3 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

Ok, but do you have an awesome bridge that gets half shut down for a festival every year? 

Nope! That is one of big differences. I’m not so much comparing or one upping as sharing an odd and fun fact. I would love to visit the New River area! I’m sad it hasn’t happened yet!

[regentrude]

@KungFuPanda

You picture (not the one with the bridge) looks very similar to the Ozarks. It's a region that has many similarities to Appalachia (and was settled to a large extent by Appalachians moving further West).

[KungFuPanda]

15 minutes ago, kbutton said:

Nope! That is one of big differences. I’m not so much comparing or one upping as sharing an odd and fun fact. I would love to visit the New River area! I’m sad it hasn’t happened yet!

I was shamelessly one-upping like a brat. You are the adult in this conversation. 🤣. I do get how some places feel like others. It’s both cool and a bit unsettling. I had that when I traveled to Augsburg. It felt like WV and their fondness for the country roads song made it extra surreal. 
 

I just googled it. Your gorge is closer to me in Maryland than mine is. 

Edited August 22 by KungFuPanda

[kbutton]

27 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

I was shamelessly one-upping like a brat. You are the adult in this conversation. 🤣. I do get how some places feel like others. It’s both cool and a bit unsettling. I had that when I traveled to Augsburg. It felt like WV and their fondness for the country roads song made it extra surreal. 
 

I just googled it. Your gorge is closer to me in Maryland than mine is. 

You’re not a brat! I just wanted to be sure I didn’t offend, lol!

That’s funny that the PA one is closer! Some parts of western MD look like home to me too. The Alleghenies have a style.

I am close to neither where I live now, but I do get home now and then.

[Just Kate]

5 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

 

@Just Kate, what part of the state are you from? I grew up in Raleigh County. I don’t think it’s a part that people move to without family connections. I have been living elsewhere for a long time so I might be wrong. It’s just so far from everything.  I know people who commute to my area of Maryland from the eastern panhandle, but you can’t really do that from the bottom of the state. 

I grew up and still live near Charleston. I am constantly amazed by how many people move here from out of state.  While there are many things about WV that I love, I miss Costco, Trader Joe’s, and other decent shopping options. But I do live in a more “affluent” part of the state (I say that in quotes, as I guess it depends on who we are being compared to!). Many who move here choose to stay. 

[saraha]

Dd21 was taking dd17 to play practice tonight and I over heard ds14 out in the yard holler “Good luck! And don’t go ninjin nobody that don’t need ninjin!” Thank you @KungFuPandafor adding this to our family lexicon! I have a feeling this is going to be around for a while

😆🥷🏻

[KungFuPanda]

6 hours ago, saraha said:

Dd21 was taking dd17 to play practice tonight and I over heard ds14 out in the yard holler “Good luck! And don’t go ninjin nobody that don’t need ninjin!” Thank you @KungFuPandafor adding this to our family lexicon! I have a feeling this is going to be around for a while

😆🥷🏻

My work here is done. 🤣 We’ve been saying this for over a decade so it’s just useful advice. 

[saraha]

3 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

My work here is done. 🤣 We’ve been saying this for over a decade so it’s just useful advice. 

Where did you even find that?

[KungFuPanda]

4 hours ago, saraha said:

Where did you even find that?

It was the early days of YouTube. There was less on there. Someone probably emailed a link to me.  I think the guy is from a neighboring WV county so the accent was no problem for me. 

[AmandaVT]

I might be totally wrong but I think of the area of the US that grew and (I think) blossomed when coal mining became a big part of the economy and then suffered economically when coal mines began to close. Also pie - I have no idea why? Is pie a thing? 

[Terabith]

In a kind of tangential line of thinking, Eric Flint's Ring of Fire is fun alternative history about what happens when a town in West Virginia is transported back in time to Europe in 1630 something.  It worked primarily because West Virginia is so self sufficient, DIY-y, and had a coal mine that got teleported back with them