Would you think anything of this?

[Heartstrings]

1 hour ago, marbel said:

don't know anything about your area, but around here there are a lot of places with "help wanted" signs, but when one inquires, there is actually no help wanted. Young people have told me that they've applied and been told "we're collecting resumes for future openings" which of course never come. 

I can attest to that.  My college age kiddo spent several days driving all over town to talk to managers after having 0 luck with online applications.   He walked past many “help wanted” to be told they were not in fact hiring.  That’s just the require signage.  It’s to gin up support from the public so they can have skeleton crews and people blame the non existent lazy bums who won’t work. 
 

Wr’ve also learned that places that are hiring are usually doing so for a reason.  Usually management sucks.  Daily scheduling changes are the biggest issue.  They change the “posted” schedule the night before then count it as a call out if you had already scheduled a shift with your 2nd or 3rd job based on the last schedule that was posted 24 hours earlier.  

Edited May 2 by Heartstrings

[Heartstrings]

1 hour ago, gardenmom5 said:

with benefits

Those “benefits” are usually things like tuition assistance after a year, but they don’t work around a college schedule so you can’t actually use it  OR the ever popular requirement that you work 32-40 hours to qualify for benefits but they only ever schedule for 16-20 hours.   Or sometimes it’s aceess to a 401k with no match.   

Edited May 2 by Heartstrings

[wendyroo]

6 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

"Ok, boomer?"

Seriously??? 

Cheap shots against those of us who disagree with you are unnecessary and insulting.

 

5 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

Actually a customer deciding not to visit an establishment due to what employees are wearing IS having a say. Also, I said the shorts don't bother me. Stains are an asthetic? Maybe for hanging out with friends yes, but for a work environment? Calling stained clothing inappropriate is pearl clutching? If nothing else (maybe she can't afford new shirts) an establishment apron to cover up the stains would be a good choice for the employer. BTW, ds' girlfriend is a barista at a local (not chain) coffee shop. She would be given a talking to if she went to work in stained clothing. Oh, and she has a nose ring, which she does wear to work and it's fine to do so. 

Nice name calling btw.

I used "Okay, Boomer" to refer to my own hypothetical attitude in my example that I got to determine what was appropriate for other people.

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

2 bedroom apartments on the eastside also start at about $3500/month. $20/hour gets you to $41,600 annually before taxes or anything, and a year of a 2br apartment is $42,000. $20/hour is nowhere near a living wage for the entire metro even if you’re splitting an apartment with a friend. 

Someone who needs a 3 bedroom would probably qualify for subsidized housing.  There are two year old buildings with rent about half that.

[wendyroo]

29 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

Actually a customer deciding not to visit an establishment due to what employees are wearing IS having a say. Also, I said the shorts don't bother me. Stains are an asthetic? Maybe for hanging out with friends yes, but for a work environment? Calling stained clothing inappropriate is pearl clutching? If nothing else (maybe she can't afford new shirts) an establishment apron to cover up the stains would be a good choice for the employer. BTW, ds' girlfriend is a barista at a local (not chain) coffee shop. She would be given a talking to if she went to work in stained clothing. Oh, and she has a nose ring, which she does wear to work and it's fine to do so. 

Nice name calling btw.

A customer deciding not to visit is having a say for themselves. Just like a Muslim deciding not to drink is making a decision for themselves.
A customer trying to insist that an establishment is inappropriate for a group larger than themselves because it does not align with their personal standards is, in my opinion, overstepping, just like a Muslin trying to insist that drinking is inappropriate for everyone because their personal religious views prohibit it. 

Obviously, everyone is entitled to their opinion about how the world should work and how the other 8 billion inhabitants should behave, but in my opinion, clinging to the idea that other people should follow your preferred (often arbitrary) standards is the definition of pearl clutching:

"The practice or habit of reacting in a scandalized or mortified manner to once-salacious but now relatively common things, events, situations, etc."
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/pearl-clutching

It seems like your DS's girlfriend works in an establishment that has different rules than the one from the original post. That's fine, and isn't really relevant. I recently took my 8 year old to a hair salon that had a different employee dress code than I was anticipating. The stylist who worked on her hair was wearing a t-shirt emblazoned with the word FUCK across it. I think it is a very positive thing that if I has determined that salon wasn't a good, appropriate fit for us that I could have taken my business elsewhere and found an establishment that offered a different environment. But I would have considered it pearl clutching on my part if I had moved beyond "this isn't a good fit for us" to "this isn't appropriate because my standards of propriety are more important than the employee's or employer's".

 

[prairiewindmomma]

28 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

Someone who needs a 3 bedroom would probably qualify for subsidized housing.  There are two year old buildings with rent about half that.

Any tips on 2 BR, non subsidized, eastside? Feel free to pm.  We've been helping look and are not coming up with much. 

[MEmama]

52 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

 

I used "Okay, Boomer" to refer to my own hypothetical attitude in my example that I got to determine what was appropriate for other people.

I'm waaaay too Gen X for this type of conversation! lol 
 

*rolls eyes...whatever*

[Heartstrings]

12 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Any tips on 2 BR, non subsidized, eastside? Feel free to pm.  We've been helping look and are not coming up with much. 

Lots of cities have an east…which city and we’ll see if we can crowd source it.  The Hive can offer a new service “Find My Kid an Affordable  Apartment.”

How safe do they “really” need to be and how do they feel about cockroaches will be important information we’ll need to know.  

Edited May 2 by Heartstrings

[prairiewindmomma]

10 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

Lots of cities have an east…which city and we’ll see if we can crowd source it.  The Hive can offer a new service “Find My Kid an Affordable  Apartment.”

How safe do they “really” need to be and how do they feel about cockroaches will be important information we’ll need to know.  

..

Edited May 3 by prairiewindmomma

[rebcoola]

Probably wouldn't have noticed or thought twice about it. Obviously  not against code her since we have several coffee shops where the girls wear bikinis or lingerie as the shops schtick.

[Catwoman]

44 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Eastside of Seattle metro—Redmond, Kirkland, Bellevue. Less concerned about crime, more about commute time. Does not want an hour commute if he can help it.
 

Cockroaches are fine but due to his asthma/allergies strong preference to carpet free and would be delighted with a pet free building. Needs to be able to install ac if not provided so can have temperature controlled and filtered air for bad wildfire summers (same health reason—asthma). Budget is $3500 including utilities (water is expensive and some building split the cost between residents rather than have a meter per apartment) but will need a roommate so 2 BR. He has a college buddy headed to that area too so that is less of a worry. Still in the interview stage, but trying to firm up budget to see necessary salary if he is offered.

Thanks!

 

I will not lie.

I would never in a million years thought I would ever hear anyone say, "Cockroaches are fine."

[Heartstrings]

16 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

I will not lie.

I would never in a million years thought I would ever hear anyone say, "Cockroaches are fine."

It’s hard out here in real estate land. Live with cockroaches vs. not be able to afford food is a choice a lot people have to make.   

[Catwoman]

10 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

It’s hard out here in real estate land. Live with cockroaches vs. not be able to afford food is a choice a lot people have to make.   

Based on the rest of her post, I didn't assume not being able to afford food was a serious factor in this specific situation.

And nobody "is fine" with cockroaches. Cockroaches are disgusting!

Edited May 2 by Catwoman
I seriously can't type today!

[prairiewindmomma]

7 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Based on the rest of her post, I didn't assume not being able to afford food was a serious factor in this specific situation.

And nobody "is fine" with cockroaches. Cockroaches are disgusting!

Cockroaches are killable. We lived in Texas for a while with flying cockroaches and huge ones. The west coast ones are not scary by comparison. Likewise, we accept that a fair amount of property based crime (car breakins etc) are par for the course on the west coast, violent crime rates are much lower. 

Rents are very high for salary; child will not be an extravagant grocery purchaser by any means. Thrift stores, 20 year old car, etc. level of living until he gets past entry salary points….trying to see if this is even doable or if he needs to have his first few jobs in the Midwest where rents are more reasonable.

[Lecka]

My sister just got a job, and she thinks the main reason she got it is that she already lives in the area, but somebody moving in wouldn’t be able to find housing for the salary offered.  But for my sister, it’s a good salary and she’s lucky she got the job.  
 

She lives in a small town in Oregon.  

[MEmama]

27 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Based on the rest of her post, I didn't assume not being able to afford food was a serious factor in this specific situation.

And nobody "is fine" with cockroaches. Cockroaches are disgusting!

And very bad for people with asthma, since that was mentioned

[prairiewindmomma]

Just now, MEmama said:

And very bad for people with asthma, since that was mentioned

Yes, but hard floors + treatment makes this doable.

[MEmama]

2 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Yes, but hard floors + treatment makes this doable.

I actually thought you were joking about the cockroaches being okay 🤣

I've lived with them once, never ever ever again. There is *nothing* that will truly get rid of them, they are like bedbugs. And just...oh so gross. Nope nope nope. I had no idea they lived on the west coast and I'm from there; had barely heard of them until moving to the Midwest and lived in a student house. Nightmarish.

Regardless, housing is hard. It worries me greatly. 😞 All the best luck to your kid--it's really tough out there everywhere (at least, everywhere with jobs and a desirable life) 

[SKL]

4 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

2 bedroom apartments on the eastside also start at about $3500/month. $20/hour gets you to $41,600 annually before taxes or anything, and a year of a 2br apartment is $42,000. $20/hour is nowhere near a living wage for the entire metro even if you’re splitting an apartment with a friend. 

Off topic, but I don't think coffee shops are responsible to pay each unskilled worker enough to rent a 2-bedroom apartment.

That kind of job is a starter job.  Not a job to support a household.  If one is going to make it a career, then yes, one needs to plan on sharing a modest dwelling with other earners.

As a mom of teens, I want unskilled jobs to be available so my kids can get basic life experiences, just like I did as a teen.  Do you think any would exist if they had to pay $40/hr or whatever you think is a living wage?  Either they'd shut all the coffee shops, or they'd automate most of the service work.

(Heh, I just googled median family income in Seattle, kuz the $41,600 you mention is median family income in lots of US locations.  Turns out Seattle's median family income is about $110,000, which is more than 3x the MFI in my metro area, haha!  So yeah, the value of $20 depends on where you live.  That said, another search says the median cost of renting a 2 bedroom in Seattle is $2,410 while the Washington state average is $1,730, so I guess that also depends on how you shop for apartments.)

Edited May 2 by SKL

[MEmama]

9 minutes ago, SKL said:

I want unskilled jobs to be available so my kids can get basic life experiences, just like I did as a teen. 

A part time, unskilled retail job paid for college when we were that age.

It's not the same reality out there anymore, at all. Not in any way.

[Lady Florida.]

4 hours ago, wendyroo said:

A customer deciding not to visit is having a say for themselves. Just like a Muslim deciding not to drink is making a decision for themselves.
A customer trying to insist that an establishment is inappropriate for a group larger than themselves because it does not align with their personal standards is, in my opinion, overstepping, just like a Muslin trying to insist that drinking is inappropriate for everyone because their personal religious views prohibit it. 

Obviously, everyone is entitled to their opinion about how the world should work and how the other 8 billion inhabitants should behave, but in my opinion, clinging to the idea that other people should follow your preferred (often arbitrary) standards is the definition of pearl clutching:

"The practice or habit of reacting in a scandalized or mortified manner to once-salacious but now relatively common things, events, situations, etc."
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/pearl-clutching

It seems like your DS's girlfriend works in an establishment that has different rules than the one from the original post. That's fine, and isn't really relevant. I recently took my 8 year old to a hair salon that had a different employee dress code than I was anticipating. The stylist who worked on her hair was wearing a t-shirt emblazoned with the word FUCK across it. I think it is a very positive thing that if I has determined that salon wasn't a good, appropriate fit for us that I could have taken my business elsewhere and found an establishment that offered a different environment. But I would have considered it pearl clutching on my part if I had moved beyond "this isn't a good fit for us" to "this isn't appropriate because my standards of propriety are more important than the employee's or employer's".

 

Curious why you decided to direct all your "ok boomer" type posts at me when about a dozen posts before mine said basically the same thing. 

I'm leaving for vacation tomorrow and plan to have fun. I don't need this. I'm out. 

[athena1277]

Tell me I’m not the only one who has seen a girl wearing the short shorts and longer shirt out somewhere and wanted to say, “Excuse me, I don’t want to alarm you, but you forgot to put on your pants.”

[wendyroo]

5 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

Curious why you decided to direct all your "ok boomer" type posts at me when about a dozen posts before mine said basically the same thing. 

I'm leaving for vacation tomorrow and plan to have fun. I don't need this. I'm out. 

I'm not sure what nefarious deed you are accusing me of. I honestly did not even notice that two of my posts included quotes both from you. Two posts. It's not like I quoted you 15 times in a row anything. Actually, my first post in this thread included a quote from Catwoman, not you.

[kbutton]

At least Hooters advertises there atmosphere so people know ahead.

I beg to differ that people should be okay choosing when the atmosphere is not advertised. I went to a Great Clips, which is a chain that has a LOT of kids getting hair cuts, and the music was so explicit that I asked them to change it because my kids were with me. They also had multiple magazines out advertising mainly s*x toys. I doubt anyone expects this at Great Clips, frankly.

[Arcadia]

1 hour ago, MEmama said:

And very bad for people with asthma, since that was mentioned

 

1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Yes, but hard floors + treatment makes this doable.

Cockroaches are very common in SE Asia. They can be eliminated or at least greatly reduced in the apartments. 
Haze from wildfires and cigarette smoke on the other hand are harder to eliminate than cockroaches. 

[Lady Florida.]

17 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

I'm not sure what nefarious deed you are accusing me of. I honestly did not even notice that two of my posts included quotes both from you. Two posts. It's not like I quoted you 15 times in a row anything. Actually, my first post in this thread included a quote from Catwoman, not you.

Perhaps it's because those were the only two posts I made, mostly just agreeing with others and you went after them (more now but I'm responding to this). Maybe I'm just being too sensitive today or maybe it was the ok boomer (which you later clarified but still) comment that prickled.

[SKL]

2 hours ago, MEmama said:

A part time, unskilled retail job paid for college when we were that age.

It's not the same reality out there anymore, at all. Not in any way.

Maybe your part-time job did.  😛  I agree times change, but I never was of the belief that minimum wage or an unskilled hourly wage was supposed to be what is now referred to as a "living wage."  And I certainly don't think it's fair to blame small businesses if young, unskilled workers are priced out of housing in your area.

My kid has a friend who's been told she will be kicked out of her grandparents' house on her 18th birthday.  (Long story, don't blame the grandparents, parents aren't in the picture.)  She currently has no skills and no college plans; she may not even graduate high school.  She works in a pizza place.  Her current plan is to "get a roommate."  Not sure what cheap rents are these days, but realistically, she may need more than one roommate, or a second job, or both.  But, it would be a lot worse if there weren't any businesses that could afford to pay for unskilled work.

[bolt.]

I think the world would be a better place if every job, skilled or unskilled (even an apprenticeship or internship) paid a living wage for wherever it was located, if they work full time. And by 'living wage' I mean sufficient for a single earner to live alone, with a partner, with a child, or both in a space that is safe, wholesome, and free of pests.

Sure, coffee out would cost what it was worth to pay a human to waste/sell their time to do that task for you, and so would a burger, or a t-shirt, or whatever. So we'd pack lunches, drink our own beverages, and stop being tempted into the role of idiot overconsumes just because poopy products are cheap as dirt.

Yeah. Let's put businesses that exploit their employees and mess with their customers. Let there be fewer businesses. Let them make us products and charge us what they are actually worth, and *then* we'll decide if we really want those things or not.

And if there aren't so many bad jobs available to desperate workers any more -- well, maybe if they don't all need 3 of them, there will still be enough jobs. And if there aren't -- let's talk about a legitimate social safety net.

[KSera]

15 minutes ago, SKL said:

I never was of the belief that minimum wage or an unskilled hourly wage was supposed to be what is now referred to as a "living wage."

How are adults who are only qualified for unskilled labor supposed to support themselves if they aren’t paid a living wage? 

[Catwoman]

2 hours ago, MEmama said:

A part time, unskilled retail job paid for college when we were that age.

Really? Not where I lived, it didn't. Not even close.

[whitestavern]

Call me a fuddy duddy, I don’t care. I expect people to be presentable. I don’t love short shorts, but it’s hard to find regular length shorts. But I wouldn’t want strings hanging down, and if I’m wearing a shortish skirt I know to bend my knees so I’m not flashing people. And no way on the t-shirt. Clean, unripped, no slogans, decent. If I owned that business that’d be my minimum. But it’s so hard to find people to work jobs like that, being picky probably isn’t an option. 

[SKL]

12 minutes ago, bolt. said:

I think the world would be a better place if every job, skilled or unskilled (even an apprenticeship or internship) paid a living wage for wherever it was located, if they work full time. And by 'living wage' I mean sufficient for a single earner to live alone, with a partner, with a child, or both in a space that is safe, wholesome, and free of pests.

Sure, coffee out would cost what it was worth to pay a human to waste/sell their time to do that task for you, and so would a burger, or a t-shirt, or whatever. So we'd pack lunches, drink our own beverages, and stop being tempted into the role of idiot overconsumes just because poopy products are cheap as dirt.

Yeah. Let's put businesses that exploit their employees and mess with their customers. Let there be fewer businesses. Let them make us products and charge us what they are actually worth, and *then* we'll decide if we really want those things or not.

And if there aren't so many bad jobs available to desperate workers any more -- well, maybe if they don't all need 3 of them, there will still be enough jobs. And if there aren't -- let's talk about a legitimate social safety net.

Well I think the world would be a better place if owners of modest single-family houses weren't selling them for hundreds of thousands of dollars, and then saying, well, Cathy's Coffee should just pay $80/hour so people can afford this.

Your dream world as described is unrealistic at any time or place in human history.

Expecting to be able to afford a spacious multi-person dwelling without any skills or experience and without working more than 40 hours a week is just another form of greed IMO.

Calling it a "safety net" so other people can pay for it is also another form of greed IMO.

People need to dial back what we think we're entitled to.

[MEmama]

14 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Really? Not where I lived, it didn't. Not even close.

Ok, well my DH paid for college (Ohio State--a very good state school) working part time in retail. I could have done the same for my school in California, but my parents paid. It definitely wasn't unheard of or unusual in the late 80s/early 90s. At any rate, tuition wasn't anything like it is today--most places, of course, there are always exceptions. Never mind housing costs; again I could support myself working part time back in the day, but now there just isn't a way. Times change and there's no sense not adjusting our expectations or clinging to the idea that our kids don't live a different reality. 

[KSera]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

Expecting to be able to afford a spacious multi-person dwelling without any skills or experience and without working more than 40 hours a week is just another form of greed IMO.

I don’t think anyone is saying everyone should be able to afford an expensive, big house. I do think a full time job should mean someone can find *somewhere* they can afford to have a roof over their head. Like an apartment. Not their car or a tent. In other countries, people can work in a factory, live in a modest apartment and even get vacation time. That seems reasonable, not “greedy.” 

[KSera]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

Calling it a "safety net" so other people can pay for it is also another form of greed IMO.

I think it’s greedy for people who have far more than they need to call it greedy when others less fortunate just want to be compensated enough that they can live and eat. People who have a lot often seem to think it’s because they work harder and deserve it more than those who have less. In my experience, this is not generally true. 

[SKL]

3 minutes ago, KSera said:

I don’t think anyone is saying everyone should be able to afford an expensive, big house. I do think a full time job should mean someone can find *somewhere* they can afford to have a roof over their head. Like an apartment. Not their car or a tent. In other countries, people can work in a factory, live in a modest apartment and even get vacation time. That seems reasonable, not “greedy.” 

In some parts of some other countries.  That is also happening in much of the US.  It's not my fault Seattle's housing costs are astronomical.  (Which is also the case in some other places globally ... which is why a lot of people around the world do not have an address at all.)

[DawnM]

19 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

 

so?  she's the one that chose to wear it to work in an establishment that serves food.

 

I am not really sure what the "so?" comment is for.  I was answering a question about if it was a company uniform type shirt or not.   

[MEmama]

When I was young I had a gig as a line cook at a local diner. I never gave any thought to what I wore (nor did anyone else in the kitchen) because, obviously, we were in the back and far away from customers. One day someone made a complaint about my Jane's Addiction t shirt, a shirt I'd worn a bazillion times and yet had never really paid attention to the graphics. Once it was gently pointed out (my boss was so cool), I was mortified I'd worn it to work. I was 19, and not paying attention to that kind of thing.

Did no one else here ever make questionable choices--or simply overlook the obvious--when they were younger? I learned fast not to judge others for meaningless stuff, who knows what they have going on and for sure I've a life full of silly mistakes. Is everyone else really so flawless?

[Ditto]

2 hours ago, MEmama said:

When I was young I had a gig as a line cook at a local diner. I never gave any thought to what I wore (nor did anyone else in the kitchen) because, obviously, we were in the back and far away from customers. One day someone made a complaint about my Jane's Addiction t shirt, a shirt I'd worn a bazillion times and yet had never really paid attention to the graphics. Once it was gently pointed out (my boss was so cool), I was mortified I'd worn it to work. I was 19, and not paying attention to that kind of thing.

Did no one else here ever make questionable choices--or simply overlook the obvious--when they were younger? I learned fast not to judge others for meaningless stuff, who knows what they have going on and for sure I've a life full of silly mistakes. Is everyone else really so flawless?

I appreciate your post very much.  It is well thought out and well written.  As I read through this thread (and the original post) my thoughts have been exactly what your second paragraph stated (though you phrased it much better).    While I don't know the employees involved, and don't even know where this took place, I feel bad for them getting called out here. 

[Ditto]

19 hours ago, rebcoola said:

Probably wouldn't have noticed or thought twice about it. Obviously  not against code her since we have several coffee shops where the girls wear bikinis or lingerie as the shops schtick.

Same here.

[gardenmom5]

4 hours ago, DawnM said:

I am not really sure what the "so?" comment is for.  I was answering a question about if it was a company uniform type shirt or not.   

about it looking like her dad's old ratty t-shirt.  

Not only is it not a company shirt, it's not even a clean shirt (even if it's been laundered, it's still stained)

[DawnM]

9 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

about it looking like her dad's old ratty t-shirt.  

Not only is it not a company shirt, it's not even a clean shirt (even if it's been laundered, it's still stained)

Oh, ok.  and yeah, it was not appropriate for anything outside the house IMO.   I mean, I have run to Home Depot for more paint in a paint dirty shirt, but I wouldn't go to work like that!

[Indigo Blue]

I’m only speaking for myself here….

We all did things when we were younger that we would never do now. We do forget that. 
 

And if I saw this girl on the sidewalk in my town, I don’t think I’d notice. If I did, I’d just think, well, another young person just doing their thing. Because you see this everywhere. I see all types of people. 🤷‍♀️

However, if I am in a place to be served food, that kind of thing doesn’t give a favorable impression of the establishment. It’s not the girl’s fault. It’s management and then it’s on up to corporate. Butt cheeks and looking dirty isn’t something that’s pleasant for customers to see. 
 

I don’t think it’s being harsh and judgy. I think customers are being reasonable to have an opinion about it. 
 

If this becomes a trend in restaurants or coffee shops (like a lot of things seem to) we can all choose to be more picky about where we eat, not care about that and eat there, or eat only at home. 
 

To me, it’s a management problem and I can choose to eat there or not. 
 

If it’s a place where mostly teens are working, and they are dressed slouchy and it’s a casual pizza joint, I can check the sanitation rating (like I do anyway) and decide whether to eat and spend money there. 
 

I do have to say that lots of places look more unappealing than they used to. Moe’s, in the beginning, was fantastic. Now, the food bar looks so sloppy, the quality is lower, it doesn’t taste as good as before, the whole entire floor is sticky, and there are no clean tables. AND it all got this way before Covid, and these Moe’s around here are not short staffed. 
 

Lots of different things make a person eat or not eat in public. Hygiene or lack of is one of them, and IMO this is reasonable. Again, it’s management/corporate who is letting this stuff go by the wayside. I think sloppier restaurants (not all…some) are becoming the new normal. 

 

 

[marbel]

9 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

However, if I am in a place to be served food, that kind of thing doesn’t give a favorable impression of the establishment. It’s not the girl’s fault. It’s management and then it’s on up to corporate. Butt cheeks and looking dirty isn’t something that’s pleasant for customers to see. 
 

I don’t think it’s being harsh and judgy. I think customers are being reasonable to have an opinion about it. 

Right. These are customer-facing jobs, and management should be, yeah, managing how their customer-facing employees look to the people who walk in to buy coffee/food. Clothing that looks dirty - yeah, we know the difference between stained and dirty, but it's not up to the customer to scrutinize the clothing to determine which it is - just isn't a good look for the average coffeeshop in most places.

It's the manager of the girls in the OP that I'm judging, not the girls themselves. 

[ScoutTN]

19 hours ago, Catwoman said:

Really? Not where I lived, it didn't. Not even close.

Me either, even after FA.

 I made $12/hr teaching swimming when minimum wage was $4.35 and no how did that pay for college. 12 weeks of summer work (teaching swimming and waiting tables) did help put a dent into my living expenses. 

[wendyroo]

2 hours ago, marbel said:

Right. These are customer-facing jobs, and management should be, yeah, managing how their customer-facing employees look to the people who walk in to buy coffee/food.

But what makes us think that management isn't deliberately managing it as they see fit?

The assumption seems to be that the only two options are either 1) the server is breaking the established dress code and management hasn't cracked down on them, or 2) management is slacking off and hasn't established a strict enough dress code to start with.

But what about the option that management is fine with what the server was wearing and doesn't think it negatively impacts the business they are trying to build? Maybe they think that type of clothing makes the servers relatable to their primary clientele. Maybe they think it establishes a friendly, laid-back atmosphere. Maybe they are courting younger clients and think that style will send that message. Maybe they are purposefully trying out a Seattle grunge aesthetic for the shop.

In this thread we have heard of several coffee shops whose servers are dressed in bikinis. That is clearly a deliberate management choice that will alienate and drive away some customers and draw others in. The same as my local hair salon allowing/encouraging edgy clothes with profanity. Or a local kids' gym that has employees wear company t-shirts that prominently feature a biblical verse.

For better or for worse, all companies send subtle signals about who they are marketing to. That kids' gym can't forbid my atheist children from participating, but they can let us know through music, decor, slogans and employee uniforms that we are not their target audience. That doesn't make their choices wrong or inappropriate.

[Hyacinth]

Would I “think anything” of someone serving me food with their butt cheeks showing and their clothing obviously dirty? OF COURSE I WOULD! This isn’t a style issue. Good grief. Basic hygiene and a general regard for societal norms should still count for something. 
 

(I’ll be over here on my rocking chair yelling at the kids to get off my lawn if you want to join me 😁)

[Catwoman]

2 hours ago, wendyroo said:

But what makes us think that management isn't deliberately managing it as they see fit?

The assumption seems to be that the only two options are either 1) the server is breaking the established dress code and management hasn't cracked down on them, or 2) management is slacking off and hasn't established a strict enough dress code to start with.

But what about the option that management is fine with what the server was wearing and doesn't think it negatively impacts the business they are trying to build? Maybe they think that type of clothing makes the servers relatable to their primary clientele. Maybe they think it establishes a friendly, laid-back atmosphere. Maybe they are courting younger clients and think that style will send that message. Maybe they are purposefully trying out a Seattle grunge aesthetic for the shop.

In this thread we have heard of several coffee shops whose servers are dressed in bikinis. That is clearly a deliberate management choice that will alienate and drive away some customers and draw others in. The same as my local hair salon allowing/encouraging edgy clothes with profanity. Or a local kids' gym that has employees wear company t-shirts that prominently feature a biblical verse.

For better or for worse, all companies send subtle signals about who they are marketing to. That kids' gym can't forbid my atheist children from participating, but they can let us know through music, decor, slogans and employee uniforms that we are not their target audience. That doesn't make their choices wrong or inappropriate.

 

So basically that coffee shop is going for some sort of "Health Department Code Violation Chic" aesthetic? 😉 

[wendyroo]

11 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

So basically that coffee shop is going for some sort of "Health Department Code Violation Chic" aesthetic? 😉 

Maybe. 😄

Kind of a Woodstockesque, free flowing, we make our own rules kind of vibe...but just giving the illusion of that while also being perfectly sanitary and within the health codes.

If they think there is a market for that, more power to them!