Local Christian radio station

[Terabith]

I feel kinda embarrassed admitting that we regularly listen to Christian radio because we’re just not really that kind of Christian. I wish there was a progressive Christian station.  But anyway, it’s one of like six stations we rotate through.  
 

This morning, their devotion involved a reading from the book of Hosea.  The book of the Bible where God commands Hosea to marry a prostitute as a metaphor about the faithlessness of Israel, except that Hosea had to literally marry her.  I was thinking, “Wow, bold move!   Where are they going with this?”  And then they said that, “Just like it would be insane for someone who is trying to woo you to quit their job, sell all their possessions to give to the poor, and live in a tent in your yard, God would never command you to do something crazy like that.  He just wants you to spend time with His Word.”

 I was like…have none of you ever READ the Bible???

[SquirrellyMama]

Huh, that is a different take on Hosea... 🤔

[happi duck]

Have they met God?!!??...

😜

Edited August 24, 2023 by happi duck

[Terabith]

2 minutes ago, happi duck said:

Have they met God?!!??...

😜

Right?  I'm like, you don't have to read very far into the Bible to find God asking people to do extreme things, including Jesus specifically telling people to sell their belongings and give it to the poor.  

At first I was so excited.  I mean, you pretty much never hear devotions on Hosea, which I actually rather like.

[SquirrellyMama]

Just now, Terabith said:

Right?  I'm like, you don't have to read very far into the Bible to find God asking people to do extreme things, including Jesus specifically telling people to sell their belongings and give it to the poor.  

At first I was so excited.  I mean, you pretty much never hear devotions on Hosea, which I actually rather like.

I have always had a fondness for the book of Hosea. I feel like it is a REALLY straightforward book...

[wisdomandtreasures]

Somehow I don't think "take up your cross" meant sit around on your cushy air-conditioned living room reading the Bible. That phrase, to me, implies there will be extreme conditions. 

[Heartstrings]

1 hour ago, Terabith said:

 I was like…have none of you ever READ the Bible???

From very many conversations with that sort of Christian, the short answer is no.  Almost always its no.  Or if they have its been in very tiny pieces following a very specific Bible study so as not to get any wrong ideas.  Big overlap with the ones that insist on KJ only but aren't able to read at that level so the pastor is literally translating the KJ english into our English for them as if it was written in Spanish or Latin.  

Sigh. 

[Terabith]

2 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

From very many conversations with that sort of Christian, the short answer is no.  Almost always its no.  Or if they have its been in very tiny pieces following a very specific Bible study so as not to get any wrong ideas.  Big overlap with the ones that insist on KJ only but aren't able to read at that level so the pastor is literally translating the KJ english into our English for them as if it was written in Spanish or Latin.  

Sigh. 

It's just weird to me, because I grew up in evangelical circles, and people DID read the Bible.  We just....got entirely different things from it.  

[Heartstrings]

1 minute ago, Terabith said:

It's just weird to me, because I grew up in evangelical circles, and people DID read the Bible.  We just....got entirely different things from it.  

There are statistics available on this. 

 

Christianity Today says of regular church goers.....   40% read it once or twice a month,  45% read it weekly, Almost 20% never read it, and almost 20% read it daily.

That's not a lot of Bible reading. 

 

It's even worse when you look at the whole population.        

https://www.logos.com/grow/biblical-literacy/

Even though 87% of adult households in the United States own a Bible, a recent Lifeway Research survey revealed Americans do not prioritize reading their Bible, saying they “don’t have time.” Only 11% of those surveyed said they’ve read all of the Bible once, while 30% said they’ve only read a few passages or stories.

 

 

https://www.christianitytoday.com/pastors/2017/bible-engagement/epidemic-of-bible-illiteracy-in-our-churches.html

 

 

[Faith-manor]

51 minutes ago, happi duck said:

Have they met God?!!??...

😜

This was my take as well! Like who is this "you don't need to sacrifice anything" deity because that just doesn't seem to jive with all the other things god told people to do in the Bible.

[Katy]

22 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

From very many conversations with that sort of Christian, the short answer is no.  Almost always its no.  Or if they have its been in very tiny pieces following a very specific Bible study so as not to get any wrong ideas.  Big overlap with the ones that insist on KJ only but aren't able to read at that level so the pastor is literally translating the KJ english into our English for them as if it was written in Spanish or Latin.  

Sigh. 

Yep. These are also the people who don’t understand Jesus didn’t speak King James English, that English didn’t exist 2,000 years ago, or that Jesus spoke Aramaic.

[ArteHaus]

12 minutes ago, Katy said:

Yep. These are also the people who don’t understand Jesus didn’t speak King James English, that English didn’t exist 2,000 years ago, or that Jesus spoke Aramaic.

Therefore, we can conclude that “Jesus” is not His name. 

The 1611 Bible referred to Him as “Iesous”, because there was no “j” in the English language at that time. It was added years later.

His name would be closer to YAHUSHA.

 

[Terabith]

50 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

There are statistics available on this. 

 

Christianity Today says of regular church goers.....   40% read it once or twice a month,  45% read it weekly, Almost 20% never read it, and almost 20% read it daily.

That's not a lot of Bible reading. 

 

It's even worse when you look at the whole population.        

https://www.logos.com/grow/biblical-literacy/

Even though 87% of adult households in the United States own a Bible, a recent Lifeway Research survey revealed Americans do not prioritize reading their Bible, saying they “don’t have time.” Only 11% of those surveyed said they’ve read all of the Bible once, while 30% said they’ve only read a few passages or stories.

 

 

https://www.christianitytoday.com/pastors/2017/bible-engagement/epidemic-of-bible-illiteracy-in-our-churches.html

 

 

Right.  But I would be interested to know what the stats were in the 80's, in the South. It seemed like everyone I knew was having 15-30 minute "quiet times with the Lord."  Myself included, which is why I have actually read Hosea (and all the other parts).  Unless people were lying about it, but I'm not sure that's the case.  The "what would Jesus do" bracelets were huge, and while people disagreed with what Jesus might do in any given situation, it seemed like people were really grappling with Jesus.  I mean, Rich Mullins was hardly typical, but he was living on what was the average amount of money for someone in the Navajo nation, I think.  

I feel like what "evangelical Christian" is has changed a ton in the last 30-40 years.  It seems to have gone from a religious orientation to a nationalist one.  

[fairfarmhand]

1 hour ago, Terabith said:

Right?  I'm like, you don't have to read very far into the Bible to find God asking people to do extreme things, including Jesus specifically telling people to sell their belongings and give it to the poor.  

At first I was so excited.  I mean, you pretty much never hear devotions on Hosea, which I actually rather like.

 

1 hour ago, SquirrellyMama said:

I have always had a fondness for the book of Hosea. I feel like it is a REALLY straightforward book...

We finished a Bible study on Hosea recently and it was SO good. It's a beautiful book.

Hosea 6:1

"Come, let us return to the LORD. He has torn us to pieces but he will heal us; he has injured us but he will bind up our wounds."

[Murphy101]

One of my dearest friends was a huge fan of the parenting program Growing Kids God’s Way when I first met her. I thought for sure she’d never have anything to do with me bc the first time we met she waxed poetic about how wonderful that program was and I finally just told her I couldn’t even cope with the off-putting title. Bc has she met God’s kids? They are totally without exception f-ed up. And he is GOD who started in paradise with just 2 mostly perfectish kids.  And I … well I don’t have any of that start going for me and mine. 

She slow blinked a few times and I offered her some more coffee and the topic moved on but dadblum. 18 years later, we’d die for each other without having to think about it, but dang I still hate the name of that program. LOL

 

[Heartstrings]

39 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Right.  But I would be interested to know what the stats were in the 80's, in the South. It seemed like everyone I knew was having 15-30 minute "quiet times with the Lord."  Myself included, which is why I have actually read Hosea (and all the other parts).  Unless people were lying about it, but I'm not sure that's the case.  The "what would Jesus do" bracelets were huge, and while people disagreed with what Jesus might do in any given situation, it seemed like people were really grappling with Jesus.  I mean, Rich Mullins was hardly typical, but he was living on what was the average amount of money for someone in the Navajo nation, I think.  

I feel like what "evangelical Christian" is has changed a ton in the last 30-40 years.  It seems to have gone from a religious orientation to a nationalist one.  

I completely, 100%, agree with your last point.  Have you seen the articles about the CT guy Russell Moore saying on NPR that pastors are being approached by parishioners saying that Jesus is “too liberal” and “weak” and no longer relevant.  (Those were the words from the article). You can’t make this stuff up! Christians that don’t recognize the words of Christ and think they aren’t relevant.  Why be a “Christian” then?

https://www.newsweek.com/evangelicals-rejecting-jesus-teachings-liberal-talking-points-pastor-1818706?amp=1

I don’t know if people were lying back then exactly, but a lot of times people say they “are doing” something when what they mean is “I intend to start/get back to” doing that thing.  

Maybe they were actually reading it more often though, I’d be interested to know.  
 

(I corrected a mistake, I thought it was a CT article, but it was a CT editor talking in an NPR interview). 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Heartstrings
Correct mis remembered details

[Terabith]

8 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

I completely, 100%, agree with your last point.  Have you seen the articles about the CT guy Russell Moore saying on NPR that pastors are being approached by parishioners saying that Jesus is “too liberal” and “weak” and no longer relevant.  (Those were the words from the article). You can’t make this stuff up! Christians that don’t recognize the words of Christ and think they aren’t relevant.  Why be a “Christian” then?

https://www.newsweek.com/evangelicals-rejecting-jesus-teachings-liberal-talking-points-pastor-1818706?amp=1

I don’t know if people were lying back then exactly, but a lot of times people say they “are doing” something when what they mean is “I intend to start/get back to” doing that thing.  

Maybe they were actually reading it more often though, I’d be interested to know.  
 

(I corrected a mistake, I thought it was a CT article, but it was a CT editor talking in an NPR interview). 

Oh yes.  It's scary.

[Faith-manor]

28 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Right.  But I would be interested to know what the stats were in the 80's, in the South. It seemed like everyone I knew was having 15-30 minute "quiet times with the Lord."  Myself included, which is why I have actually read Hosea (and all the other parts).  Unless people were lying about it, but I'm not sure that's the case.  The "what would Jesus do" bracelets were huge, and while people disagreed with what Jesus might do in any given situation, it seemed like people were really grappling with Jesus.  I mean, Rich Mullins was hardly typical, but he was living on what was the average amount of money for someone in the Navajo nation, I think.  

I feel like what "evangelical Christian" is has changed a ton in the last 30-40 years.  It seems to have gone from a religious orientation to a nationalist one.  

Among evangelicals back then as well as now, many rely on devotionals. These are handed out like candy around here, and were hugely popular even during my childhood and teen years. So the verses of the devotional were impeded in the devotional, and people called that their daily Bible reading. There would be a few paragraphs of commentary, and frankly low brow commentary, no need to read whole portions of the Bible or go systematically through an entire book of the Bible. Just smattering of random verses from here or there and a ton of them from Psalms and Proverbs except at Christmas and Easter which is when the writers would break out Luke. But when you talked to people who used these, they would say they had studied the Bible.

About three years before I deconverted and Mark gave up on organized Christianity, we taught a children's class for ages 9-12. One quarter, we taught them the Apostles Creed and systematically worked through the theology with them bit by bit. The parents, across the board, were shocked that there was this handy creed thing. They had no idea it existed. Literally flabbergasted. There were 14 sets of parents represented by the children in this class, and none of them had ever heard of the creed. On top of that, the pastor - Wesleyan ordained - was only vaguely aware of it, and really didn't know the text. Among the parents, four of the dads were elders/deacons.

So ya. A lot has changed in Christianity, but I would argue is began about 50 years ago with the Moral Majority, Phyllis Schafly, Jerry Falwell. It became way more important to be politically motivated on a couple of issues than to be well versed in theology which meant moving the people away from Biblical studies and towards prosperity gospel, feel good, emotional worship, and watered down messaging so the masses don't stop to consider what leadership was doing. 

Just my opinion of where it broke down from someone who used to be in the trenches trying to teach the important, central themes and foundation. I readily recognize that this might not mean much coming from someone who turned her back on the faith.

[Terabith]

5 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Among evangelicals back then as well as now, many rely on devotionals. These are handed out like candy around here, and were hugely popular even during my childhood and teen years. So the verses of the devotional were impeded in the devotional, and people called that their daily Bible reading. There would be a few paragraphs of commentary, and frankly low brow commentary, no need to read whole portions of the Bible or go systematically through an entire book of the Bible. Just smattering of random verses from here or there and a ton of them from Psalms and Proverbs except at Christmas and Easter which is when the writers would break out Luke. But when you talked to people who used these, they would say they had studied the Bible.

About three years before I deconverted and Mark gave up on organized Christianity, we taught a children's class for ages 9-12. One quarter, we taught them the Apostles Creed and systematically worked through the theology with them bit by bit. The parents, across the board, were shocked that there was this handy creed thing. They had no idea it existed. Literally flabbergasted. There were 14 sets of parents represented by the children in this class, and none of them had ever heard of the creed. On top of that, the pastor - Wesleyan ordained - was only vaguely aware of it, and really didn't know the text. Among the parents, four of the dads were elders/deacons.

So ya. A lot has changed in Christianity, but I would argue is began about 50 years ago with the Moral Majority, Phyllis Schafly, Jerry Falwell. It became way more important to be politically motivated on a couple of issues than to be well versed in theology which meant moving the people away from Biblical studies and towards prosperity gospel, feel good, emotional worship, and watered down messaging so the masses don't stop to consider what leadership was doing. 

Just my opinion of where it broke down from someone who used to be in the trenches trying to teach the important, central themes and foundation. I readily recognize that this might not mean much coming from someone who turned her back on the faith.

Oh no, no judgment for turning your back on faith at all.  None at all.  Most of my friends are deconstructed.  I love church, because it's a source of community and a place to sing with other people, and I find the Eucharist to be incredibly important personally.  I believe in the Apostle's and Nicene Creeds.  I don't read the Bible on the regular on my own anymore, but I certainly have, and we do pretty big chunks at church.  

I agree with you about where the big turn took place.  I just only personally witnessed late 80s/ 90s on.  When I was a kid, it's true that those devotional books were huge.  Upper Room was passed out like candy, and there were different ones for kids and teens.  But I also knew a lot of people, who were, granted, probably the more intellectually minded in the churches, who worked through big commentaries of whole books, and even teens did things like The Student Bible that had Bible reading plans for reading through the whole Bible.  I'm not sure what percentage were doing that, but it wasn't an insignificant one.  But yeah, the wedding of church and state with the Moral Majority was catastrophic for the church.  I always say, "When the church and state get into bed with each other, they turn each other into whores."

[Katy]

I remember going to a church conference or something when I was about 19, and an usher moved me to sit next to a stranger. He was ranting about women speaking there and how women should be silent in a way that seemed way out of context and like he’d probably heard a sermon or 3 about it but never read or understood any of it.

I purposely misused, “What about when Jesus said, ‘There shall be no more male nor female among you?’”  He asked if I was in seminary or theology school or something. I said, “No, I don’t want to be a pastor. I want my boyfriend to propose and I want to be a stay at home mom. But I can read.” He looked very surprised but stopped ranting. I honestly thought it hadn’t occurred to him that he might be missing something by not reading the Bible himself before. 

[MercyA]

1 hour ago, Terabith said:

 I mean, Rich Mullins was hardly typical, but he was living on what was the average amount of money for someone in the Navajo nation, I think.  

He had his church pay him the average salary of a laborer and the rest he had them give away. ❤️ He did live on the reservation at the end of his life. He said he "got tired of a white, evangelical, middle-class perspective on God" and said he thought he'd have better luck finding God among the Navajo. He taught music to the kids on the reservation, not to convert them but because that was just who he was. Way ahead of his time.

[Terabith]

5 minutes ago, MercyA said:

He had his church pay him the average salary of a laborer and the rest he had them give away. ❤️ He did live on the reservation at the end of his life. He said he "got tired of a white, evangelical, middle-class perspective on God" and said he thought he'd have better luck finding God among the Navajo. He taught music to the kids on the reservation, not to convert them but because that was just who he was. Way ahead of his time.

He was amazing.  

[Katy]

2 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

Among evangelicals back then as well as now, many rely on devotionals. These are handed out like candy around here, and were hugely popular even during my childhood and teen years. So the verses of the devotional were impeded in the devotional, and people called that their daily Bible reading. There would be a few paragraphs of commentary, and frankly low brow commentary, no need to read whole portions of the Bible or go systematically through an entire book of the Bible. Just smattering of random verses from here or there and a ton of them from Psalms and Proverbs except at Christmas and Easter which is when the writers would break out Luke. But when you talked to people who used these, they would say they had studied the Bible.

About three years before I deconverted and Mark gave up on organized Christianity, we taught a children's class for ages 9-12. One quarter, we taught them the Apostles Creed and systematically worked through the theology with them bit by bit. The parents, across the board, were shocked that there was this handy creed thing. They had no idea it existed. Literally flabbergasted. There were 14 sets of parents represented by the children in this class, and none of them had ever heard of the creed. On top of that, the pastor - Wesleyan ordained - was only vaguely aware of it, and really didn't know the text. Among the parents, four of the dads were elders/deacons.

So ya. A lot has changed in Christianity, but I would argue is began about 50 years ago with the Moral Majority, Phyllis Schafly, Jerry Falwell. It became way more important to be politically motivated on a couple of issues than to be well versed in theology which meant moving the people away from Biblical studies and towards prosperity gospel, feel good, emotional worship, and watered down messaging so the masses don't stop to consider what leadership was doing. 

Just my opinion of where it broke down from someone who used to be in the trenches trying to teach the important, central themes and foundation. I readily recognize that this might not mean much coming from someone who turned her back on the faith.

I’m surprised that so many Wesleyan families knew nothing about the creed. I’m currently way more liberal than the Wisconsin synod Lutheran confirmation class I was forced to go to, but I’ve been SO appreciative of having that Christian history knowledge as an adult. I feel like it really protected me from a lot of questionable forms of faith over the years. 

[dirty ethel rackham]

2 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

One of my dearest friends was a huge fan of the parenting program Growing Kids God’s Way when I first met her. I thought for sure she’d never have anything to do with me bc the first time we met she waxed poetic about how wonderful that program was and I finally just told her I couldn’t even cope with the off-putting title. Bc has she met God’s kids? They are totally without exception f-ed up. And he is GOD who started in paradise with just 2 mostly perfectish kids.  And I … well I don’t have any of that start going for me and mine. 

She slow blinked a few times and I offered her some more coffee and the topic moved on but dadblum. 18 years later, we’d die for each other without having to think about it, but dang I still hate the name of that program. LOL

 

I don't just hate the name of that program ... I hate every single thing about it!  Bad theology (Jesus suffering on the cross is why we should not comfort our crying children when they become inconvenient!).  Complete ignorance of infant and child development.  And the cult-like way it was railroaded into churches.  The shunning of people who dared to question it.  

The only thing good about that program is that it forced me to study up to understand why I was so icked out by it.  I dove deep into infant and children's nutrition, psychology, discipline, etc.  I started going to Bible study at our Catholic church to get more scholarly understanding of what the Bible really says about parenting, not just cherry-picking verses here and there.  And I learned who my real friends were and who were not.  

To the original question ... people ignoring what the Bible says or twisting it to fit their own needs is as old as the Bible itself.  Wars have been fought over these differences for millenia.  What I find interesting is that the people I have met who seemed to have put in the most actual study of the Bible (my evangelical acquaintances) are the people who were the first to jump into the white Christian nationalism movement.  The cognitive dissonance is mindboggling.  These people would be all to happy to criticize us Catholics for not knowing the Bible as well as them (because they could cite chapter and verse as opposed the the Catholic typical response of "somewhere in the Old Testament" or "I think it was one of Paul's letters").  

[Grace Hopper]

Hmm. General state of Biblical illiteracy among people who mostly use it to defend their own opinions. 
 

Sorry to hear that point of view was given air time. 

[Murphy101]

Given that general literacy overall sucks, I wouldn’t be expecting biblical literacy to be any better than the overall suckage rate. 🤷‍♀️

Edited August 25, 2023 by Murphy101

[easypeasy]

Yes, given that literacy in general is in a desperate downward spiral, it's unsurprising that Bible reading has also taken a nosedive.

IME, the evangelicals I know ("those" Christians) have only read enough scripture to quote very specific segments back at you when they are trying to win a theological discussion.

I am not religious. However, I make it a point to READ the entire Bible every 2 or 3 years just so I can stay sharp on what it *actually* says vs what people like to TELL me it says.

I have found that the less literate people are, the more loud opinions they have about things they know nothing about. 😑

[Murphy101]

If anyone cares to explore this … Ft Mike’s Bible in a Year Podcast is excellent and requires only a little time each day. 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Murphy101

[Jaybee]

Let's just say that we have tried to live our lives in accordance with what we felt God was showing He wanted from us, and it has been decidedly different from (or more than) just reading our Bibles, though that has been included. 😂 Wouldn't change it, but it has certainly been unconventional in some ways. (Nothing like Hosea, though, I assure you!🤣)

[Grace Hopper]

17 hours ago, MercyA said:

He had his church pay him the average salary of a laborer and the rest he had them give away. ❤️ He did live on the reservation at the end of his life. He said he "got tired of a white, evangelical, middle-class perspective on God" and said he thought he'd have better luck finding God among the Navajo. He taught music to the kids on the reservation, not to convert them but because that was just who he was. Way ahead of his time.

I love Rich Mullins. Such a poet. I saw him in concert twice, he performed in jeans, old t-shirt, barefoot. I clearly remember the day he died. 

A few book titles that some may find interesting:

Jesus and John Wayne, Kristen DuMez 

The Liturgy of Politics and The Ballot and The Bible, both by Kaitlyn Schiess

Losing Our Religion, Russell Moore

[eta The Holy Post podcast - particularly the second segment guest interviews]

I have been through a few years of deconstruction, but am now in a phase of reconstruction, relearning and re-examining the way of Jesus with fresh eyes, not guided by the white nationalist priorities that crept over the American church. I’m finding great resources in The Bible Project and the younger, more globally minded young members and teachers coming into my own local church as many older congregants peeled off for more politically minded places following the events of 2020 (which our church leadership handled very thoughtfully, but covid deniers and political dissidents had their own opinions).
 

<shuffling off to pull out a Rich cd>

Edited August 25, 2023 by Grace Hopper

[Grace Hopper]

13 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

Given that general literacy overall sucks, I wouldn’t be expecting biblical literacy to be any better than the overall suckage rate. 🤷‍♀️

Agree, but I’d like think that someone in a broadcasting position would be somewhat…vetted? I know that’s asking too much, but in a perfect world…

 

[Indigo Blue]

@Grace Hopper, you might also like the Straight White American Jesus podcast. 
 

I wasn’t brought up in church, but I dated and married a man who was. We have been attending his childhood church since the day we met. It’s the only one I’ve ever known. We are in the process of leaving for many reasons. I have been on the fence between leaving completely and going somewhere new, but I will go where Dh goes and see how things go. I do want to have a different mindset going forward. This podcast is helping with that. 

[Grace Hopper]

Just now, Indigo Blue said:

@Grace Hopper, you might also like the Straight White American Jesus podcast. 
 

I wasn’t brought up in church, but I dated and married a man who was. We have been attending his childhood church since the day we met. It’s the only one I’ve ever known. We are in the process of leaving for many reasons. I have been on the fence between leaving completely and going somewhere new, but I will go where Dh goes and see how things go. I do want to have a different mindset going forward. This podcast is helping with that. 

Thanks! I’ve actually listened to a couple of episodes. A question - have one or both of the hosts totally deconverted? Or are they, like Russell Moore and me, walking away from the errors of the church while still pursuing Christ?

[Indigo Blue]

42 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

Thanks! I’ve actually listened to a couple of episodes. A question - have one or both of the hosts totally deconverted? Or are they, like Russell Moore and me, walking away from the errors of the church while still pursuing Christ?

That’s a good question. I’ve been meaning to look into that, but I’m feeling that they have walked away from bad theology and white Christian nationalism but are still in the faith. 

[GailV]

20 hours ago, ArteHaus said:

Therefore, we can conclude that “Jesus” is not His name. 

The 1611 Bible referred to Him as “Iesous”, because there was no “j” in the English language at that time. It was added years later.

His name would be closer to YAHUSHA.

 

One of my pet peeves is praise music that focusses on "the name of Jesus" like it's a magic spell. For god's sake, if you want to reduce the New Testament to an incantation AT LEAST GET IT RIGHT.

16 hours ago, dirty ethel rackham said:

  These people would be all to happy to criticize us Catholics for not knowing the Bible as well as them (because they could cite chapter and verse as opposed the the Catholic typical response of "somewhere in the Old Testament" or "I think it was one of Paul's letters").  

My favorite story about Catholic vs Evangelical Bible literacy: A few years back Dd was cast in a churchy-type production and was given the name "Jael" because it exists in the Bible. When I heard the name I was joking about her maybe pounding a tent stake through someone's head during the production. The Evangelical moms were totally blank, the Catholic moms laughed. 

[Terabith]

33 minutes ago, GailV said:

One of my pet peeves is praise music that focusses on "the name of Jesus" like it's a magic spell. For god's sake, if you want to reduce the New Testament to an incantation AT LEAST GET IT RIGHT.

My favorite story about Catholic vs Evangelical Bible literacy: A few years back Dd was cast in a churchy-type production and was given the name "Jael" because it exists in the Bible. When I heard the name I was joking about her maybe pounding a tent stake through someone's head during the production. The Evangelical moms were totally blank, the Catholic moms laughed. 

Wow! I am surprised the evangelical moms didn’t know the story of Jael.  That is really sad.  
 

I agree about the praise music about the name of Jesus.  My kids and I joke about how hard it can tell secular love songs apart from praise music.  My youngest will be like, “Oh yes, another making out with Jesus song.”  
 

My personal pet peeve is that the Word of God is Jesus, not the Bible. Making an idol out of the Bible is a big thing. I guess the Constitution now, too, but I think fewer people have read that than the Bible.  
 

I also find the fact that “You Will Be Found” from Dear Evan Hansen is huge on Christian radio to be deeply ironic. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Terabith

[Harriet Vane]

@Grace Hopper @Indigo Blue @Terabith

 

I have found the Holy Post podcast to be a breath of fresh air. 

I can also give a hearty second to the book recommendation Jesus and John Wayne.

[Grace Hopper]

2 hours ago, GailV said:

One of my pet peeves is praise music that focusses on "the name of Jesus" like it's a magic spell. For god's sake, if you want to reduce the New Testament to an incantation AT LEAST GET IT RIGHT.

My favorite story about Catholic vs Evangelical Bible literacy: A few years back Dd was cast in a churchy-type production and was given the name "Jael" because it exists in the Bible. When I heard the name I was joking about her maybe pounding a tent stake through someone's head during the production. The Evangelical moms were totally blank, the Catholic moms laughed. 

LOL we called our home based middle school for youngest dd Jael Junior High. 

1 hour ago, Terabith said:

Wow! I am surprised the evangelical moms didn’t know the story of Jael.  That is really sad.  
 

I agree about the praise music about the name of Jesus.  My kids and I joke about how hard it can tell secular love songs apart from praise music.  My youngest will be like, “Oh yes, another making out with Jesus song.”  
 

My personal pet peeve is that the Word of God is Jesus, not the Bible. Making an idol out of the Bible is a big thing. I guess the Constitution now, too, but I think fewer people have read that than the Bible.  
 

I also find the fact that “You Will Be Found” from Dear Evan Hansen is huge on Christian radio to be deeply ironic. 

100% to the bolded!

I have to say, imo that DEH song is a more simply theological description of how the church universal should work than many of the religious pop songs we hear today. I know that wasn’t the lyricists intent but the song, for me, inspires hope. Makes me tear up whenever I hear it performed well. Agreeing, though, there’s irony. I find it in the thought that some congregations aren’t welcoming to anyone of any stripe who enters, seeking to be “found.”  A lotta front-end judgment out there. 

[scholastica]

5 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

If anyone cares to explore this … Ft Matt’s Bible in a Year Podcast is excellent and requires only a little time each day. 

Do you mean Fr Mike Schmitz? Or is there another one with a Fr Matt?

[Heartstrings]

38 minutes ago, scholastica said:

Do you mean Fr Mike Schmitz? Or is there another one with a Fr Matt?

I really like Father Mike.  I love his podcast.  He is so happy and upbeat. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Heartstrings

[fairfarmhand]

3 hours ago, Terabith said:

Wow! I am surprised the evangelical moms didn’t know the story of Jael.  That is really sad.  
 

I agree about the praise music about the name of Jesus.  My kids and I joke about how hard it can tell secular love songs apart from praise music.  My youngest will be like, “Oh yes, another making out with Jesus song.”  
 

My personal pet peeve is that the Word of God is Jesus, not the Bible. Making an idol out of the Bible is a big thing. I guess the Constitution now, too, but I think fewer people have read that than the Bible.  
 

I also find the fact that “You Will Be Found” from Dear Evan Hansen is huge on Christian radio to be deeply ironic. 

We call them “Jesus is my boyfriend” songs.

[ktgrok]

On 8/24/2023 at 2:55 PM, Faith-manor said:

This was my take as well! Like who is this "you don't need to sacrifice anything" deity because that just doesn't seem to jive with all the other things god told people to do in the Bible.

Righ!!?? It's the same with the prosperity Gospel people who say that loving Jesus means nothing bad happens to you. I'm like...uh....ever heard of the Apostles? They did NOT end up living happily ever after in a McMansion with a trophy wife, 2.5 kids enrolled in private school, and a BMW. 

On 8/24/2023 at 3:46 PM, Terabith said:

Right.  But I would be interested to know what the stats were in the 80's, in the South. It seemed like everyone I knew was having 15-30 minute "quiet times with the Lord."  Myself included, which is why I have actually read Hosea (and all the other parts).  Unless people were lying about it, but I'm not sure that's the case.  The "what would Jesus do" bracelets were huge, and while people disagreed with what Jesus might do in any given situation, it seemed like people were really grappling with Jesus.  I mean, Rich Mullins was hardly typical, but he was living on what was the average amount of money for someone in the Navajo nation, I think.  

I feel like what "evangelical Christian" is has changed a ton in the last 30-40 years.  It seems to have gone from a religious orientation to a nationalist one.  

It became a cultural movement largely shaped by economic/marketing forces - specifically the ability to sell "Christian" stuff without being tied to a particular church or seminary. Christianity is sadly not much more than a brand name for many people, same as "Lululemon". I can buy the leggings and have the logo on my water bottle but it doesn't mean I actually do yoga. 

[scholastica]

4 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

I really like Father Mike.  I love his podcast.  He is so happy and upbeat. 

I actually first heard him speak in 2012 at a homeschool conference. He was already a  great speaker then. I agree he has joy and it shows.

[Murphy101]

19 hours ago, scholastica said:

Do you mean Fr Mike Schmitz? Or is there another one with a Fr Matt?

Yes. Ugh. I think it autocorrected and I didn’t notice. Thanks. 

[Heartstrings]

14 hours ago, scholastica said:

I actually first heard him speak in 2012 at a homeschool conference. He was already a  great speaker then. I agree he has joy and it shows.

I didn’t realize he was connected to homeschooling.  That’s really interesting.  

[Murphy101]

22 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

I didn’t realize he was connected to homeschooling.  That’s really interesting.  

Not really. He is a popular speaker in Catholic and Christian circles. He has no connection to homeschooling that I’m aware of other than a convention wanting to bring in a popular Christian speaker. 

[scholastica]

On 8/26/2023 at 9:35 AM, Heartstrings said:

I didn’t realize he was connected to homeschooling.  That’s really interesting.  

What Murphy101 said. He was asked to speak there because he had become known to some homeschool families through his campus ministry. He had never met a homeschooler until then and was pleasantly surprised once he became acquainted with the community. He gave the keynote on the Purpose of Education and a talk aimed at homeschool dads. Both were very good. 

[Dmmetler]

On 8/25/2023 at 11:38 AM, Terabith said:

Wow! I am surprised the evangelical moms didn’t know the story of Jael.  That is really sad.  
 

I agree about the praise music about the name of Jesus.  My kids and I joke about how hard it can tell secular love songs apart from praise music.  My youngest will be like, “Oh yes, another making out with Jesus song.”  
 

My personal pet peeve is that the Word of God is Jesus, not the Bible. Making an idol out of the Bible is a big thing. I guess the Constitution now, too, but I think fewer people have read that than the Bible.  
 

I also find the fact that “You Will Be Found” from Dear Evan Hansen is huge on Christian radio to be deeply ironic. 

As a kid raised in a conservative household, I might have made a guy I liked a mix tape that was 100% "make out with Jesus" songs, with definite non-evangelizing  intent...

 

For a time, I got dragged to a Bible study (I was desperate for human contact and my kid loved two of the other kids who were regularly there, so I put up with it)  which was pretty much all folks who loved to quote the Bible, the Constitution, and the Federalist papers, all without actually having read much of it. Too bad I was a classically homeschooling mom who had read all of the above fairly recently, has a really, really good memory, AND had all of the above (and multiple translations of the Bible) loaded on my Kindle, along with multiple other commentaries and primary sources.....

 

I don't think I changed any minds, but I admit to having fun.

[Grace Hopper]

43 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:Too bad I was a classically homeschooling mom who had read all of the above fairly recently, has a really, really good memory, AND had all of the above (and multiple translations of the Bible) loaded on my Kindle, along with multiple other commentaries and primary sources.....

 

Oh my… you inspire me! 😆

[Longtime Lurker]

On 8/24/2023 at 12:46 PM, Terabith said:

This morning, their devotion involved a reading from the book of Hosea.  The book of the Bible where God commands Hosea to marry a prostitute as a metaphor about the faithlessness of Israel, except that Hosea had to literally marry her.  I was thinking, “Wow, bold move!   Where are they going with this?”  And then they said that, “Just like it would be insane for someone who is trying to woo you to quit their job, sell all their possessions to give to the poor, and live in a tent in your yard, God would never command you to do something crazy like that.  He just wants you to spend time with His Word.”

 I was like…have none of you ever READ the Bible???

So having finished the previous book of the Bible I had been reading, and inspired by this thread, I started reading Hosea yesterday,,,