How much do your just-graduated-from-college children make (esp in HCOL)?

[Clarita]

56 minutes ago, Momto6inIN said:

Oldest DS got 6 figures for his programming job in Chicago, which I consider to be HCOL but maybe some of you coastal folks don't. He graduated with an MS in CS. He made almost as much in his first job out of college as my DH makes now after 26 years as an engineer! 😜

I think your husband needs to ask for a raise! (Or change jobs.) I hit 6 figures as an engineer after 5 years of working, 3 of those in a recession. (Before I got my MSEE which has never been factor in my salary.)

Of course it's now all over the news that at one point in the past several years they were paying CS majors to do absolutely nothing. So those were fun times. 

[Matryoshka]

2 hours ago, 2squared said:

My rising college senior is hoping for an HR offer at the bank she’s interning for. I think having strong summer work experiences helps land a full-time job after graduation. Food service, retail, and Jewish education, while solid jobs, wouldn’t cause me to prioritize a candidate over someone with internships in their career areas.  Those jobs are definitely better than no college jobs! I’m not sure I would look at a candidate without a job unless they had really strong college extracurriculars….extracurriculars that would replace a job (which definitely includes college sports). 

This too.  I was the one that didn't get any internships or coops related to my major and ended up having to take low-paid admin jobs when I graduated (no one told me I needed a summer job that wasn't retail; I thought a summer job was a summer job - then even graduating cum laude with a Business related degree fluent in three languages all anyone wanted to know with no relevant job experience on my resume was how fast I could type) - so I really emphasized that my kids get some kind of relevant job experience during college. 

CompSci kid went to a school with a strong coop program; Accounting kid had to hustle to get kind of a lame internship online because it was mid-Covid, but it still really helped having that on the resume to get their first post-college job.  Humanities kid thought they would go to humanities grad school and so did all kinds of things to get a good resume for that - independent research, published papers... but then they didn't do that.  Ah, well.

[Laura Corin]

My daughter is working as an entry-level university librarian. She lives in Oxford, which is a fairly expensive city. I don't know her salary, but she lives in a room in a shared house, doesn't own a car and mostly socialises in people's homes or at picnics, etc.,  so quite cheaply.

Her degree is from Oxford in English and Classics, but there is less prejudice here against arts degrees. Her grades were poor, however. Looking at job postings, she probably makes about £24,000, so about USD30,000.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Laura Corin

[popmom]

I didn't read every reply, so apologies if this has been suggested...

I know of several young people who got degrees, and then went back to school to learn a trade or something like x-ray tech or physical therapy assistant. They could make more money in those fields and find work very easily. And with no enormous grad school loans.

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by popmom

[Janeway]

11 hours ago, YaelAldrich said:

I have a bonus son who just graduated from a liberal arts school (not very selective) with a BA in Psychology.  He had very good grades and made Dean's list most semesters and was a TA for his senior year. He's worked most of college in food service, retail, and Jewish education.

He is looking for a job now and is looking at a variety of postions. He is complaining that nothing he is applying for is paying more than $23 an hour (in Boston).  My DH and I thought that was a pretty good wage for someone with limited work experience.  I realize Boston is a very expensive location to live, but in my youth (in a significantly lower cost of living area as well as Boston) we lived poorly.  Small, cheap apartment which took up over 50% of our income, cheap food, one car (needed for school), no vacations, etc.  He seems to want a more lavish lifestyle right out of the gate.  What say y'all?  Am I being a cranky old lady?

All I ever hear from this young adult population is whine about wanting more money and less work. Spoke to my niece last night who barely graduated high school and is working at a daycare and is upset that she only gets 15 PTO days and if she gets sick she hast to take that time from her PTO. My husband only had 10 PTO days for about the first 10 years of his career and he is a college educated professional on salary work in an engineering. I got no PTO at all when I was her age.  My own son at 18 yrs old, refused to work any job for less than $12 an hour, even though it was only part time. Even now he tells me about how he expects to have six figures after graduation and if he doesn’t have that much, he knows he’s going to be homeless. The idea of roughing it and not being a complete success story at the top of everything at 22 yrs old is met with the notion of complete destruction and defeat.

Tell the young person to get a marketable skill and quit whining to you about it.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Janeway

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

3 hours ago, popmom said:

I didn't read every reply, so apologies if this has been suggested...

I know of several young people who got degrees, and then went back to school to learn a trade or something like x-ray tech or physical therapy assistant. They could make more money in those fields and find work very easily. And with no enormous grad school loans.

 

This is what I did.  And what almost everyone I know has done, either gotten a teaching credential or gone into an allied health field(or gone to nursing school).  The only people I know who really did anything with their liberal arts degrees got a PhD, but almost twenty years after graduating from college, the few I’ve kept up with seem to be stuck as adjuncts making very little money and are supplementing by doing DoorDash or Instacart.

And frankly I do think the world needs people who have studied literature and philosophy and history, but I don’t think it’s worth it financially. 

[regentrude]

16 minutes ago, Janeway said:

All I ever hear from this young adult population is whine about wanting more money and less work. Spoke to my niece last night who barely graduated high school and is working at a daycare and is upset that she only gets 15 PTO days and if she gets sick she hast to take that time from her PTO. My husband only had 10 PTO days for about the first 10 years of his career and he is a college educated professional on salary work in an engineering. I got no PTO at all when I was her age.  

I am glad the young people ( and many of the older) reevaluate the meaning of a paid job for their lives. I hope they can change the culture and demand vacation time and sick leave and maternity leave and liveable wages. Just because the US has been pathetic in this respect compared to other developed nations doesn't mean they have to settle for that.

I teach college and find the young people for the most part enthusiastic and eager to work, without seeing paid jobs as the one factor that defines their lives. 

The pandemic has shown many people the value of time, and how short life can be, and they react by refusing the rat race and wanting more. Good for them.

[regentrude]

Re "the young people today will never own a home":

• Almost 30% of 25-year-olds owned their homes in 2022, a higher percentage than their Gen X parents at the same age.

https://www.investopedia.com/gen-z-homebuyers-7483718#:~:text=Almost 30% of 25-year,parents at the same age.&text=Oshrat Carmiel is a freelance,residential and commercial real estate.

[Momto6inIN]

8 hours ago, Clarita said:

I think your husband needs to ask for a raise! (Or change jobs.) I hit 6 figures as an engineer after 5 years of working, 3 of those in a recession. (Before I got my MSEE which has never been factor in my salary.)

Of course it's now all over the news that at one point in the past several years they were paying CS majors to do absolutely nothing. So those were fun times. 

We chose the rural life and the rural employer (and therefore the rural salary)  instead of the higher paid city life, so it was a conscious choice on our part. But it was still a bit of a shock when DS made that much right out of the gate! Lol

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

I am glad the young people ( and many of the older) reevaluate the meaning of a paid job for their lives. I hope they can change the culture and demand vacation time and sick leave and maternity leave and liveable wages. Just because the US has been pathetic in this respect compared to other developed nations doesn't mean they have to settle for that.

I teach college and find the young people for the most part enthusiastic and eager to work, without seeing paid jobs as the one factor that defines their lives. 

The pandemic has shown many people the value of time, and how short life can be, and they react by refusing the rat race and wanting more. Good for them.

Well this is attitude is fine if said young person is able to provide for themselves.  

[marbel]

13 hours ago, YaelAldrich said:

I have a bonus son who just graduated from a liberal arts school (not very selective) with a BA in Psychology.  He had very good grades and made Dean's list most semesters and was a TA for his senior year. He's worked most of college in food service, retail, and Jewish education.

What types of jobs is he looking at? His good grades and dean's list are pretty meaningless, to be honest. Psych majors are not in high demand, at least not at undergrad level.  

[sassenach]

13 hours ago, YaelAldrich said:

I have a bonus son who just graduated from a liberal arts school (not very selective) with a BA in Psychology.  He had very good grades and made Dean's list most semesters and was a TA for his senior year. He's worked most of college in food service, retail, and Jewish education.

He is looking for a job now and is looking at a variety of postions. He is complaining that nothing he is applying for is paying more than $23 an hour (in Boston).  My DH and I thought that was a pretty good wage for someone with limited work experience.  I realize Boston is a very expensive location to live, but in my youth (in a significantly lower cost of living area as well as Boston) we lived poorly.  Small, cheap apartment which took up over 50% of our income, cheap food, one car (needed for school), no vacations, etc.  He seems to want a more lavish lifestyle right out of the gate.  What say y'all?  Am I being a cranky old lady?

Recently having similar conversations with my 26yo college drop out where she’s panicked about the constant hustle of working two jobs in order to live and I’m thinking, yes, this is why your mean parents were upset about the decision to drop out. Welcome to the reality that we warned you of. I’m a cranky old lady, too. 

I will say $23 is pretty low for HCOL. That same child of mine makes $28 nannying. Life will be the teacher for these kids. I just make sympathetic noises. 

[SKL]

My kid wants to be a therapist.  I already know that with a psych degree, she'll be blessed to pay her bills.  She'll have to find ways of living frugally / sharing expenses.  Hopefully she understands this going in.  I still think it's better than not getting a post-high-school education, and she isn't interested in being a plumber.

[Matryoshka]

12 minutes ago, SKL said:

My kid wants to be a therapist.  I already know that with a psych degree, she'll be blessed to pay her bills.  She'll have to find ways of living frugally / sharing expenses.  Hopefully she understands this going in.  I still think it's better than not getting a post-high-school education, and she isn't interested in being a plumber.

We have a critical shortage of mental health workers.  While a Bachelors in psych is not worth $, it seems to me that therapists earn good money and are in high demand.  I haven't quite understood why there seem to be so many poor psych majors with BAs and so few therapists (be they psychiatrists, psychologist, or just humble LISCWs to be found). Seems like most people I've heard of who need a good therapist have a hard time finding one taking new patients, not to speak of someone with the right credentials and/or a good fit.   Where is the breakdown in the pipeline?

[SKL]

Just now, Matryoshka said:

We have a critical shortage of mental health workers.  While a Bachelors in psych is not worth $, it seems to me that therapists earn good money and are in high demand.  I haven't quite understood why there seem to be so many poor psych majors with BAs and so few therapists (be they psychiatrists, psychologist, or just humble LISCWs to be found). Seems like most people I've heard of who need a good therapist have a hard time finding one taking new patients, not to speak of someone with the right credentials and/or a good fit.   Where is the breakdown in the pipeline?

Just from personal observation, I see this as a job often taken by women with husbands and children, perhaps as a part-time gig, and often not intended to be the family income.

I also think there is a gap due to the challenges of finding the right fit between client and therapist.

I'm very happy that my kid wants to do this for a living.  I love that she wants to help people in need.  I wish it paid in accordance with the actual value to society.  But that's how it is with many helping professions.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

5 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

We have a critical shortage of mental health workers.  While a Bachelors in psych is not worth $, it seems to me that therapists earn good money and are in high demand.  I haven't quite understood why there seem to be so many poor psych majors with BAs and so few therapists (be they psychiatrists, psychologist, or just humble LISCWs to be found). Seems like most people I've heard of who need a good therapist have a hard time finding one taking new patients, not to speak of someone with the right credentials and/or a good fit.   Where is the breakdown in the pipeline?

I think it has a lot to do with insurance. My sister is an LCSW with a master’s degree, who does private therapy near a major city and makes barely enough to survive even with child support. The insurance reimbursement rate is low and I think that keeps people from becoming therapists.  I know she makes significantly less than I do. She was married when she chose to go back to school to become a therapist and it was definitely supposed to be a second income job. 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Mrs Tiggywinkle Again

[ScoutTN]

My friend’s daughter just graduated with a degree in Middle Eastern Studies and is fluent in Arabic. She has a job in DC making 100K.

Two no college young adults I know are doing ok in our Mcol area - real estate and hvac tech. Both making over 60K at age 20 or 21. 

[Heartstrings]

I don’t know about lavish. My young adult just wants to be able to rent an apartment without roommates.  A 1 beds room or studio apartment in our area should be affordable but I’ve looked at the math with him and nope, it’s not.  He lives close to a monastic lifestyle so it’s not the frills, unless one considers food and electric to be frills.   
 

He’s starting a Comp Sci degree this fall.  For the past 3 years he’s been following the “advice” that you don’t need college, just skills. He has programming skills, self taught, that are worth exactly nothing.  It finally got through his head that that was poor advice, so off to college he goes.   

Edited June 27, 2023 by Heartstrings

[Faith-manor]

11 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

I don’t know any young adults who expect a lavish lifestyle out of college. They all seemed resigned to not being able to purchase a home in the near future because it’s way too expensive. 

This is my experience. They do not expect to own a home, take the kinds of family vacations many of the middle class used to take, afford to have children, or afford very many amenities. They do expect to go bankrupt from their medical bills at some point, and work until they die because they expect a huge raise in how much they have to pay into social security to subsidize the retirees now, and then get old and sick and be told there is no social security for them. 

Nine of our bachelor sons' friends are vanlife working remote while they pay off their student loans. It isn't fun. Sure, for a while, and especially when not working and able to "see the sights", but looking at doing that for years and years, not great at all. But it is super cheap living because they stay SW on federal lands, dispersed camping, and have composting toilets. It is a hard lifestyle. But they are paying off their student loans rapidly, and then will begin banking serious savings and start investments.

I know there are entitled y/a out there who think they should be comfortable, have toys, and have high salaries and benefits straight out of school. I just don't know any, and my own kids never ran with such a crowd. The crowd they are a part of look at the fascism, wild capitalism and greed, government corruption, and climate change combined with the insanity of our " healthcare system", and they don't have a rosy outlook about their future. They are voting and active this way in the hope of making change. As my one son says, "My vote isn't for bettering my world right now. That isn't even an option. My vote is in the hopes of making it better for my nephews' generation."

I don't agree with taking any job just to get started if that job is in a HCOL area. The financial peril of doing that is very real. I have seen young adults do that, and not able to afford even healthy food to cook at home, and go without needed medical care because they cannot pay their deductible and copays to worse, uninsured, make too much money to qualify for medicaid, and have no walk in options that do not require payment on the spot for uninsured patients.

It isn't the same world Gen X experienced leaving college/trade school to embark upon independent life.

[marbel]

25 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

He’s starting a Comp Sci degree this fall.  For the past 3 years he’s been following the “advice” that you don’t need college, just skills. He has programming skills, self taught, that are worth exactly nothing.  It finally got through his head that that was poor advice, so off to college he goes.   

I feel like getting a job is such a crap shoot. I have known people with great coding/etc skills - no degree, no cert, just demonstrable skills - who are doing great. And then I hear of others who have the degree and the skills and are getting nowhere. Or they have the degree and apply for entry level but are told, sorry, you need experience. But it's entry level! Some of this is even in the same area. Maybe it's interview skills? I just don't know. 

Then you have the people who are afraid to hire a person with a degree into a trades or other entry-level type job because they are afraid the employee will get a better gig and leave before too long. Even when the degree is useless (BA in history in my family). 

It's so frustrating for young people. I graduated from high school in the 70s, got good jobs without a degree; finally got a degree (in English) in my early 30s but it wasn't needed for my job or continued promotions. I was making a pretty good salary when I quit work in 1997 to stay home with the baby.  

 

[Faith-manor]

3 hours ago, regentrude said:

Re "the young people today will never own a home":

• Almost 30% of 25-year-olds owned their homes in 2022, a higher percentage than their Gen X parents at the same age.

https://www.investopedia.com/gen-z-homebuyers-7483718#:~:text=Almost 30% of 25-year,parents at the same age.&text=Oshrat Carmiel is a freelance,residential and commercial real estate.

This is for the very oldest of GenZ. The predictions I have seen for later GenZ and for Gen Alpha is a very low rate of home ownership due to so much housing being bought up for AirBnB/Vrbo etc., foreign investment in property, and the lack of housing for the middle class driving prices so high while banks remain conservative about whom they will loan to thus making mortgages out of reach for the next wave of young adults who would normally begin looking at home ownership options.

That said, I think a segment of them do not consider home ownership to even be a smart choice because they do not expect the kinds of employment stability that previous generations seemed to enjoy. Moving frequently to follow jobs means they can't hold onto a home long enough to break even.

Of course it is a lot of speculation since we don't know for sure how it will play out.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

I’m starting to feel anymore like if you’re not born with an aptitude and interest for STEM you’re just kind of screwed.  The types of human service jobs I’d love and am qualified for pay around $45,000 with my master’s degree.  That won’t even cover childcare for two kids after taxes. I don’t have any idea how to advise my very humanities oriented kids.  One might be interested in vet tech as a trade, but that doesn’t pay enough to live. Frankly, the people I know doing the best are people who went into some kind of uniformed service in their early 20s and retired with a full pension at 45.  Or went into a trade.

I really just want a job that pays enough to live on and that I can have some decent work life balance, but that seems to be a unicorn with my skill set.

[mom2scouts]

12 hours ago, Momto6inIN said:

Oldest DS got 6 figures for his programming job in Chicago, which I consider to be HCOL but maybe some of you coastal folks don't. He graduated with an MS in CS. He made almost as much in his first job out of college as my DH makes now after 26 years as an engineer! 😜

2nd DS is a senior in college and is working for $25/hr this summer in a relatively LCOL but it is an upper management job. His degree will be in business communications (which is definitely soft and in the school of LA) but he's got lots of business and entrepreneurial  experience already so that skews it a bit.

I do think lots of young adults want/expect a lavish lifestyle in their 20s that DH and I didn't expect/get until our 40s.

DS1 makes 3x more than DH has ever made after 40 years as an architect. DS1 has an engineering degree from a top 40 school. DS2 already makes about the same as DH and he has a science related degree.

[Heartstrings]

36 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

due to so much housing being bought up for AirBnB/Vrbo etc.

The rate at which houses are being bought up by corporations or for AirBNBs has really taken off in the last few years.  It really feel like if you don’t already own a home your only way into homeownership is inheriting one.  I’ve heard realtors saying that most houses under $300-$500K are being bought by corporations. 

[Grace Hopper]

50 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

This is for the very oldest of GenZ. The predictions I have seen for later GenZ and for Gen Alpha is a very low rate of home ownership due to so much housing being bought up for AirBnB/Vrbo etc., foreign investment in property, and the lack of housing for the middle class driving prices so high while banks remain conservative about whom they will loan to thus making mortgages out of reach for the next wave of young adults who would normally begin looking at home ownership options.

That said, I think a segment of them do not consider home ownership to even be a smart choice because they do not expect the kinds of employment stability that previous generations seemed to enjoy. Moving frequently to follow jobs means they can't hold onto a home long enough to break even.

Of course it is a lot of speculation since we don't know for sure how it will play out.

Hmmm my kids are young Gen Z and 50% of my kids are homeowners. Just chiming in to say that it’s doable. I agree it’s harder, but I think not impossible. 

31 minutes ago, mom2scouts said:

DS1 makes 3x more than DH has ever made after 40 years as an architect. DS1 has an engineering degree from a top 40 school. DS2 already makes about the same as DH and he has a science related degree.

Same - our non-humanities kids make more than we do. 

[livetoread]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

Just from personal observation, I see this as a job often taken by women with husbands and children, perhaps as a part-time gig, and often not intended to be the family income.

I also think there is a gap due to the challenges of finding the right fit between client and therapist.

I'm very happy that my kid wants to do this for a living.  I love that she wants to help people in need.  I wish it paid in accordance with the actual value to society.  But that's how it is with many helping professions.

You can do very well as an independently licensed therapist with a masters in private practice. I know plenty of masters level therapists making six figures in LCOL areas. You have to get the masters and then the independent license which can mean poor wages while you do that, but then it's good. Working for any agency rather than private practice means lower wages as well.

Different insurances reimburse at different rates and getting on panels can be tough when first starting out. Your daughter should consider a masters in social work rather than psychology too because sometimes the independent license is easier to get depending on the state.

Industrial/Organizational Psych with a masters pays well too, for those interested in people but not wanting to do therapy.

[Faith-manor]

32 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

I’m starting to feel anymore like if you’re not born with an aptitude and interest for STEM you’re just kind of screwed.  The types of human service jobs I’d love and am qualified for pay around $45,000 with my master’s degree.  That won’t even cover childcare for two kids after taxes. I don’t have any idea how to advise my very humanities oriented kids.  One might be interested in vet tech as a trade, but that doesn’t pay enough to live. Frankly, the people I know doing the best are people who went into some kind of uniformed service in their early 20s and retired with a full pension at 45.  Or went into a trade.

I really just want a job that pays enough to live on and that I can have some decent work life balance, but that seems to be a unicorn with my skill set.

And due to the knew retirement rules with many uniformed positions, that isn't an avenue anymore. 

I have degrees in piano performance and music education. What am I doing now? Pursuing and aerospace.engineering degree. Good thing I do like math and science, and have the aptitude.

I know my son with the anthropology/archaeology degree will never make any money at all. He will do what he loves, and support himself. He is currently comfortable because he and his engineer younger brother share an apartment and expenses. He will always need a roommate or live with a relative and pay rent to them or something similar. He would like to have a PHD, but it isn't like academia pays well, and Indiana Jones may have had an adventurous life, but Indy doesn't make money in real life. If ds is content not having a family of his own, and always rooming in, he will be okay. But if not, he is going to be forced into some sort of STEM direction. He showed an aptitude for forensics when he took his forensic anthro class, and took part in a team that did actually provide new information to LEO's which allowed them to find the murderer in a cold case. So that was pretty cool. He just hasn't so far shown an inclination to actually go to grad school for that specifically.  We will see.

Our society is going to get pretty dystopian if decide that there is no value at all in the humanities. But that is what happens in a country that functions as an oligarchy with a wild wild west attitude towards and worship of capitalism leaving the entire direction for the nation in the hands of billionaires. They don't give a damn. If they want to attend the theaters, they can just fly to Europe on their private jets. If they want a gallery, they will go off continent and buy them. They don't give a crap if we the people have any access to these things much less that we might want to participate in the production of it.

[Matryoshka]

4 hours ago, regentrude said:

Re "the young people today will never own a home":

• Almost 30% of 25-year-olds owned their homes in 2022, a higher percentage than their Gen X parents at the same age.

https://www.investopedia.com/gen-z-homebuyers-7483718#:~:text=Almost 30% of 25-year,parents at the same age.&text=Oshrat Carmiel is a freelance,residential and commercial real estate.

Who the heck are these 25yos?  My oldest two are 25, so I know a lot of YAs that age, and most of them are lucky if they're not living with their parents, or they have roommates.  I don't even know any that are managing enough income to live in a one-bedroom apartment by themselves.  Zero of them are even thinking of the possibility (no less reality) of home ownership.  My YA with a CS degree earning a very good salary and no student debt isn't thinking she'll ever manage home ownership.   Who ARE these 25yo unicorns?  If it's 1 in 3, I should know at least one.  Are they all in rural LCOL areas?  Are these kids with wealthy parents who paid the down payment?

Edited June 27, 2023 by Matryoshka

[Grace Hopper]

6 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Who the heck are these 25yos?  My oldest two are 25, so I know a lot of YAs that age, and most of them are lucky if they're not living with their parents, or they have roommates.  I don't even know any that are managing enough income to live in a one-bedroom apartment by themselves.  Zero of them are even thinking of the possibility (no less reality) of home ownership.  My YA with a CS degree earning a very good salary and no student debt isn't thinking she'll ever manage home ownership.   Who ARE these 25yo unicorns?  If it's 1 in 3, I should know at least one.  Are they all in rural LCOL areas?  Are these kids with wealthy parents who paid the down payment?

I have to believe it has everything (eta well not everything, but in large part) to do with where they are living, HCOL area or not. A couple of mine have had experience living in various parts of the country and did make choices about where to live/make a home purchase based on affordability of region. 
 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Grace Hopper

[Matryoshka]

23 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

Hmmm my kids are young Gen Z and 50% of my kids are homeowners. Just chiming in to say that it’s doable. I agree it’s harder, but I think not impossible. 

Same - our non-humanities kids make more than we do. 

Young Gen Z are still in middle/high school, mid-aged Gen Z are still in college.  How are they owning homes?  (Oldest Gen Z are usually pegged at 25yo, barely out of college).

How did your GenZ kids manage home ownership?  Are you in a LCOL area?  Do they have student debt (I think this is another thing that this generation has to deal with that older ones didn't, at least not at this level.  We managed to get our own kids out debt-free, but that's far from the norm).

Edited June 27, 2023 by Matryoshka

[Grace Hopper]

32 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Young Gen Z are still in middle/high school, mid-aged Gen Z are still in college.  How are they owning homes?  (Oldest Gen Z are usually pegged at 25yo, barely out of college).

How did your GenZ kids manage home ownership?  Are you in a LCOL area?  Do they have student debt (I think this is another thing that this generation has to deal with that older ones didn't, at least not at this level.  We managed to get our own kids out debt-free, but that's far from the norm).

Oh goodness my kids are not gen z, totally my mistake! No wonder it hit me as puzzling that the demographic would be so hopeless! Sorry to confuse. I guess they’re later Gen Y?

***ETA wait a minute if Gen Z is 1997-2012 all but one of my kids actually are Gen Z.***

They are mid-20’s. We are in a MCOL area. They made college decisions combined with scholarships to keep total student debt down, drove jalopies, and worked their butts off with jobs while in school to get their student debt paid off as quickly as possible. Lived with multiple roommates while in school to keep housing expenses super low. Each lived at home briefly after graduation to build savings and formulate budget plans (my dh was really helpful in them doing that). 
 

***editing one more time to clarify - these are my homeowning kids. My humanities kid in a HCOL area has no hope of home ownership under current circumstances***
 

One thing I noticed is that each have been very satisfied to buy small homes in good (resale-able) locations. They really don’t want big homes filled with expensive furniture and decor, so they haven’t spent a ton on the kind of things previous generations did (like heavy expensive furniture, pricey china, extravagant draperies, etc). 
 

fwiw my home owning kids are the tech/medical/finance field earners, so they are advantaged that way. 

My youngest is Gen Z and is very very conscious of expenses. Another college choice based on affordability and scholarship. Coffee and meals out with friends, yes. But otherwise a bit of a tightwad! 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Grace Hopper

[Scarlett]

31 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Who the heck are these 25yos?  My oldest two are 25, so I know a lot of YAs that age, and most of them are lucky if they're not living with their parents, or they have roommates.  I don't even know any that are managing enough income to live in a one-bedroom apartment by themselves.  Zero of them are even thinking of the possibility (no less reality) of home ownership.  My YA with a CS degree earning a very good salary and no student debt isn't thinking she'll ever manage home ownership.   Who ARE these 25yo unicorns?  If it's 1 in 3, I should know at least one.  Are they all in rural LCOL areas?  Are these kids with wealthy parents who paid the down payment?

My son and wife bought a house at she 22. 

[fairfarmhand]

31 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Who the heck are these 25yos?  My oldest two are 25, so I know a lot of YAs that age, and most of them are lucky if they're not living with their parents, or they have roommates.  I don't even know any that are managing enough income to live in a one-bedroom apartment by themselves.  Zero of them are even thinking of the possibility (no less reality) of home ownership.  My YA with a CS degree earning a very good salary and no student debt isn't thinking she'll ever manage home ownership.   Who ARE these 25yo unicorns?  If it's 1 in 3, I should know at least one.  Are they all in rural LCOL areas?  Are these kids with wealthy parents who paid the down payment?

Yeah. My dd and her husband are both 25. The down payment is the sticking point because they can’t quickly save up enough because rent is so high. And they live in a relatively low col place. 

[Corraleno]

5 hours ago, Janeway said:

All I ever hear from this young adult population is whine about wanting more money and less work. Spoke to my niece last night who barely graduated high school and is working at a daycare and is upset that she only gets 15 PTO days and if she gets sick she hast to take that time from her PTO. My husband only had 10 PTO days for about the first 10 years of his career and he is a college educated professional on salary work in an engineering. I got no PTO at all when I was her age.  My own son at 18 yrs old, refused to work any job for less than $12 an hour, even though it was only part time. Even now he tells me about how he expects to have six figures after graduation and if he doesn’t have that much, he knows he’s going to be homeless. The idea of roughing it and not being a complete success story at the top of everything at 22 yrs old is met with the notion of complete destruction and defeat.

Tell the young person to get a marketable skill and quit whining to you about it.

Apparently we run in different circles, because I don't know a single young person who is "whining" about wanting a luxury lifestyle without wanting to work. DD gets up at 5 AM to get to her warehouse job by 6 AM, and then takes CC classes in the evening to become a Certified Medical Assistant. Her friends who aren't lucky enough to have parental help and need to be totally self-supporting are working 2 jobs, plus sometimes doing deliveries on weekends, because that's the only way to afford an apartment and a car here.

It's true that no one around here would take any job for $12/hr, though. Minimum wage here is $14.75, and even the lowest level fast food/warehouse/mall retail type jobs generally start at $17-20. 

[Kassia]

My older adult kids (28-32) could all afford to buy homes if they wanted to, but none of them are in areas where they plan on staying so they choose to live in apartments.  They all graduated with STEM degrees and no debt and make really good salaries.  My oldest is very aggressive with his career and salary, and has made several job switches to make big advances in those areas.  None of them drive fancy cars or spend a whole lot other than on travel.

 

eta- only one makes more (so much more) than DH (computer engineer for 37 years) but the others are close and all of their benefits are SO much better than DH's with health/dental/vision and PTO.  

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Kassia

[Heartstrings]

53 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Who the heck are these 25yos?  My oldest two are 25, so I know a lot of YAs that age, and most of them are lucky if they're not living with their parents, or they have roommates.  I don't even know any that are managing enough income to live in a one-bedroom apartment by themselves.  Zero of them are even thinking of the possibility (no less reality) of home ownership.  My YA with a CS degree earning a very good salary and no student debt isn't thinking she'll ever manage home ownership.   Who ARE these 25yo unicorns?  If it's 1 in 3, I should know at least one.  Are they all in rural LCOL areas?  Are these kids with wealthy parents who paid the down payment?

Prettt sure most of them are married.  2 incomes makes things much easier.  Married in a LCOL area is worlds away from single in a HCOL area.  

Edited June 27, 2023 by Heartstrings

[Matryoshka]

20 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

Yeah. My dd and her husband are both 25. The down payment is the sticking point because they can’t quickly save up enough because rent is so high. And they live in a relatively low col place. 

Yeah, it's the down payment.  I'm not sure how young people are saving enough for a down payment with rent in a shared apartment is a good $1500.  The average house price is around $700K, so even for a tiny home on a tiny lot we're probably talking $500K+. 

[Corraleno]

37 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Who the heck are these 25yos?  My oldest two are 25, so I know a lot of YAs that age, and most of them are lucky if they're not living with their parents, or they have roommates.  I don't even know any that are managing enough income to live in a one-bedroom apartment by themselves.  Zero of them are even thinking of the possibility (no less reality) of home ownership.  My YA with a CS degree earning a very good salary and no student debt isn't thinking she'll ever manage home ownership.   Who ARE these 25yo unicorns?  If it's 1 in 3, I should know at least one.  Are they all in rural LCOL areas?  Are these kids with wealthy parents who paid the down payment?

I would bet that a large % of 25 yo home owners are married with two incomes plus living in LCOL areas where all the smaller/cheaper houses haven't already been snapped up by flippers and investors. Around here even a 2 BR/1 BA 900 sq' fixer upper with a significant commute is going to be around $400K, if you can even find one. There are a lot of older 2 BR/1 BA condos available for $300K or so but they generally have very high monthly fees because of the amount of maintenance needed. 

The only person I know that age who owns a home has an Ivy degree, makes ~$150K in a finance job, and got the downpayment for a condo from his very wealthy parents. Most 25 yr olds we know either recently graduated and are trying to pay off student loans or they're in grad school and still living on ramen and peanutbutter.

[Tree Frog]

I wonder if part of the inability to purchase a home is due in part to college debt a young adult has and financial support from parents. My oldest could afford to purchase a house, but is still moving around too much for it to make sense. My middle believes she won't be able to buy a house in her hcol area, but she also wants to enjoy life, travel, not be limited by a mortgage or saving for a down payment. My youngest just graduated college and is unsure about home ownership, though he has an excellent job. His focus seems to be hard work, but plenty of time off for fun. I'm very glad to see different priorities for them. (That means that any grandkids won't arrive any time soon, which I'm bummed about, but I'd rather the kids be happy and healthy. A couple of mine have already said they don't want kids, so my expectations are low anyway.)

My kids all graduated with small savings intact and no student debt. Dh has been able to support us well throughout the years and we were able to save for the kids' college funds. I'm now getting certified and will be bringing in mid 5 figures hopefully this year. Despite living out of state, we are able to support our kids when they have to move unexpectedly or have other surprise financial or support needs. This is a financial support that many students don't have and allows our kids freedoms that many of their peers don't have. I don't consider us wealthy, but what little money we've been able to accumulate has benefitted our kids in less tangible ways.

 

 

[Corraleno]

8 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Yeah, it's the down payment.  I'm not sure how young people are saving enough for a down payment with rent in a shared apartment is a good $1500.  The average house price is around $700K, so even for a tiny home on a tiny lot we're probably talking $500K+. 

Yeah there's no way either of my kids will ever be able to own a house in the neighborhood we live in now — heck, even I couldn't afford to live here if I hadn't bought this house when I did. The house across the street from me recently sold for more than $700K, which is double what I paid 9 years ago. And the houses around here are nothing special — mostly ranches and split levels built in the 70s. A 1 BR apartment in a decent, safe area is at least $1500/mo — which is why my 21 yr old is living at home!

[Grace Hopper]

16 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Yeah, it's the down payment.  I'm not sure how young people are saving enough for a down payment with rent in a shared apartment is a good $1500.  The average house price is around $700K, so even for a tiny home on a tiny lot we're probably talking $500K+. 

Wow yes that $700K avg puts first time home buyers in a tough spot.

[Heartstrings]

9 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

d bet that a large % of 25 yo home owners are married with two incomes plus living in LCOL areas where all the smaller/cheaper houses haven't already been snapped up by flippers and investors. Around here even a 2 BR/1 BA 900 sq' fixer upper with a significant commute is going to be around $400K, if you can even find one. There are a lot of older 2 BR/1 BA condos available for $300K or so but they generally have very high monthly fees because of the amount of maintenance needed.

That’s a big part of it.  Where I live $300k buys a very nice house.  There are lots of decent houses Under $125k but those get snapped up by investors quickly.  $150k-$200k is about what’s needed to get into a home.  Large parts of our area qualify for rural development loans with $0 down.  

[Faith-manor]

30 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Who the heck are these 25yos?  My oldest two are 25, so I know a lot of YAs that age, and most of them are lucky if they're not living with their parents, or they have roommates.  I don't even know any that are managing enough income to live in a one-bedroom apartment by themselves.  Zero of them are even thinking of the possibility (no less reality) of home ownership.  My YA with a CS degree earning a very good salary and no student debt isn't thinking she'll ever manage home ownership.   Who ARE these 25yo unicorns?  If it's 1 in 3, I should know at least one.  Are they all in rural LCOL areas?  Are these kids with wealthy parents who paid the down payment?

They are 25 year olds who are not from low to middle middle class. They are the kids whose parents have enough savings to gift them the down payment on a house which in our area for a young adult without years of work history means the bank wants 20% or more down in order to get a decent interest rate, or were even gifted a house. The banks here are not friendly to people with less than ten years solid work history, McD's employment does not count! I am fairly convinced that these 25 year olds with houses have had the privilege of parents who had the means and willingness to help them. Not all of them by any stretch, but quite a few.

Some kids have definitely inherited them, and of course the wealthy can afford to give houses away as well.

Our two bachelor sons could easily afford a mortgage in their low COL city and surrounding area. Their emergency savings is almost large enough now for 10% down, and combined income would push them over the six figure threshold. But they both have only been at their current jobs less that two years. Banks would not loan to them anyway. The banks here a quite conservative and like traditional situations, married couples with dual income, not bachelors sharing expenses. They don't even qualify for a car loan without a co-signer. That said, they are not interested in being tied to a house, maintenance, repairs, etc. They are free spirits in that regard. 

Of course with the banking thing, that can be a regional. I can imagine there may be other areas in which banks are more willing to take a risk on young workers, single people who can't pay cash for a house, etc.

Urban.org states that among millennials, home ownership for those whose parents have low income, low assets, is very low something like 14% if memory serves. For those whose parents had higher assets and at least middle class income, that number jumps to 36%, so slightly over one third.  But upper middle class and wealthy parents produce kids who have very very high home ownership rates. The Boomer home ownership rate was 60%. 77% of Silent Gen are/were home owners. This roads me to believe that 25 year olds, back in the day, were not home owners much. It was something attained later, again saving up for down payments and getting far enough into employment to feel secure taking the risk. GenZ may yet get there. However, 60% of Boomers owned houses by this same time, 30-40 years of age, that Millennials own which is down 8%. So that tend is down at least according to some sites I looked at, urban.org being one place for statistics.

What is really going to kick Gen Z and younger Millennials square in the butt is of course the gobbling up of homes, the bidding of them to the moon and back by investors, vacation rental companies, developers looking to level single family homes and put up luxury housing and multifamily rentals.

Side rant. So houses in our area are not expensive. They are not worth a lot, and do not build equity because no employment out here that pays worth a darn. Property taxes are low because the state equalized value is low because the market value is low. Well wouldn't you know it, some dingdongs from Detroit came up here and wanted to buy a place "in nature", and didn't care what they paid for it. The asking price was $125,000 for the place they bought, but someone had already offered $122,000. The sellers had not yet responded to that offer, and their downstate dingaling realtor told them to make a guargantuan bid because they could afford it, and that would knock out the competition. They offered $250,000.00 sigh. Of course the sellers took it. Who wouldn't! But because of that, the entire township had their property taxes reavaluated based on that one sale. One sale. That's it. Every single tax bill was doubled. Every one of them. Some folks practically rioted at the township board meeting, but it turns out that in such a small population 900 people/568 households it is legal to base property values on a single home sale within the township since it was the only recent sale prior to them doing the tax valuation reassessments. Now the dingdongs are mad about the smell of manure (well DUH, you moved to an area with several dairy farms and is largely agricultural), and they don't like the deer because they hit one with their car. They are mad as snot that they can't sell their place for what they have into it. The people who originally want that house and two acres still haven't purchased another place and told them at that meeting that they would offer $122,000.00 for it. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 Mark was there for the conversation, and said he snort laughed loud enough they heard him.

Sometimes a dingdong really ruins it for all the other people.

Now we are paying property tax that is bizarrely out of line with what this house is actually worth. I can only imagine how bad it is for people who live in areas where vacation companies have been bidding like a game of high stakes poker.

[Scarlett]

We do live in a LCOL area. However, my son was still in college and they bought the house with DIL income alone. She has high school only. They saved while living in a 2 bedroom nice apartment which was about $1300 a month. So they had 10k for down payment and closing costs. They did not need 20% down. 
They definitely aren’t from wealthy families. 
My DIL is native and she was able to get a lower interest rate.

 

[Heartstrings]

11 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

They did not need 20% down.

I almost feel like the necessary 20% down payment is a myth.  We’ve bought 3 houses in our married life and never once needed 20%.  

[Grace Hopper]

5 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

I almost feel like the necessary 20% down payment is a myth.  We’ve bought 3 houses in our married life and never once needed 20%.  

Twenty percent is the magic number at which you don’t have to pay an additional monthly fee for mortgage premium insurance (MPI). Our first couple of houses were purchased with below 20% down. We did not live in any of them long enough to do this, but it’s recommended to follow up once your equity is above 20% so that insurance portion can be dropped. 
 

(this is based on personal experience but I realize the market has been bonkers the last few years so maybe this info is dated)

[Clarita]

HCOL area the secret to homeownership here is to not move out immediately after college, get a 6 figure salary, then your salary is going to pay for investments and saving up for your first down payment. The hard practical truth is don't get a major that isn't going to get you that 6 figure salary.

My house that we bought 10 years ago is more than double what we paid for it. 600-700K gets you a condo or townhouse. Teeny tiny starter homes that are the size of a condo starts closer to 700k. My neighborhood is in a bad school district. The neighborhood with a decent school district is ~100K more than that. 

Yes the generation just coming to the workforce are asking a lot salary-wise. The dollars from those salaries they are asking can get a lot of stuff. However the numbers they are asking for will barely get them a roof over their heads 🤷‍♀️.  So yes a bunch of people in my area have Teslas and fancy things, but even if they saved all the money, drove junker cars and ate ramen everyday they still wouldn't be able to afford a home.   

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

It’s so location dependent. The average home cost here is $113,000.  In 2021 we bought a 1500 square foot ranch on almost two acres in what is considered to be the best school district.  Dated but other than paint and removing wallpaper, nothing else needed to be done. Beautiful hard wood floors throughout, attached garage, full basement.  We made an offer the night it was listed and it already had two other offers—we got it for $150,000. Plenty of people here get married at 22-23, work at the salt factories, the schools or the hospitals, and are homeowners around 25.  $300,000 will buy you a 4500 square foot new build(i just looked at Zillow). The last few years Airbnb’s have exploded though in the town I have a rental house in though and there’s now a moratorium on new short term rentals.  It may be too little too late because it’s a community on a lake, and there’s nowhere to build but the demand is there for family housing.  I don’t know if that will change things going forward.

But then all those short term rentals are always filled, there’s never any vacancies from April-October, and the tourist money is really the biggest industry.  So it’s a catch 22.   
Also, rural homes often qualifies for grants and such.  We got a first time homebuyer’s rural home grant when we bought in 2010, and that covered our down payment. 

[SKL]

3 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

Who the heck are these 25yos?  My oldest two are 25, so I know a lot of YAs that age, and most of them are lucky if they're not living with their parents, or they have roommates.  I don't even know any that are managing enough income to live in a one-bedroom apartment by themselves.  Zero of them are even thinking of the possibility (no less reality) of home ownership.  My YA with a CS degree earning a very good salary and no student debt isn't thinking she'll ever manage home ownership.   Who ARE these 25yo unicorns?  If it's 1 in 3, I should know at least one.  Are they all in rural LCOL areas?  Are these kids with wealthy parents who paid the down payment?

Pretty sure my nephew bought a substantial house at about age 25.  He has some sort of chemical engineering degree.  He was a top student at his university, which probably helped.

ETA he was on a full scholarship.  He didn't have financial help from his folks.

Edited June 27, 2023 by SKL

[lewelma]

My sister was a psych major and she did the training to be a professional counsellor. This is not an PhD. She did a professional training program (I'm not sure it was even a Masters) and then she was observed/mentored for her first year, then she had her licence.