thanks

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 27, 2023 by BandH

[BusyMom5]

I hear you,  and since this an ongoing issue, my advice would be to step back- not out- but back.  There is no reason for you to cook a meal for them, and when you do it brings drama.   We all agree that this entire scenario is nuts.  No one in their right mind would act the way she does.  Expecting her to react differently is expecting the impossible.  She is mentally ill, and it does affect her kids, your kids,  your husband and all the family members.  Its hard. 

If she calls to ask if you will watch the kids, and you want to, great!  If she invites the kids out for ice cream or a ball game,  and it works for you, great.  If you are busy,  just say sorry- maybe another time. If you want to take the kids out, or have them over to play, call and ask but be specific about times. If someone else wants to host a meal, offer to bring a dish IF you want to go.  Put your own kids first. 

She is using food as a weapon, so stop giving her the weapon.  She is using it to manipulate you.  As long as you keep allowing it, she will. I think you should stop hosting or preparing any food at all.  Anything she uses like this,  you just need to stop engaging in that activity.  Before you volunteer to do anything, stop and ask if you are setting yourself up for a crazy attack.  You can still do plenty of family things, but still step back.  

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 27, 2023 by BandH

[BusyMom5]

1 minute ago, BandH said:

So, I'm cooking for the whole family, not just her branch.   Not every week.  The other two siblings and their spouses cook and contribute in other ways.  It's just that this particular week, it fell to me.  The rest of the family does a lot for me, and I want to to repay that.  And cooking with my other SIL and with Pop is pretty much my only hobby. 

To be clear, she doesn't take my kids.  Ever.  At this point, I don't need her to, my kids can stay alone, but she never really has, and she's had some interactions that are problematic enough that I wouldn't allow it if she offered.  

I'm nosey,  but what do the other families think, and how do they react tonher?  Is she this way to others, or is she targeting you?  Would it help to ask others to run interference?  

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 27, 2023 by BandH

[lauraw4321]

In the scenario you described (not quoting) first line of defense: don’t provide the menu. DONT PROVIDE EXTRA INFO EVEN IF IT MEANS LYING!!! “Don’t know, haven’t planned it yet!”
 

Second line of defense: “Wow! You’re right! My goodness! Can YOU bring some peas? I’ve already prepped the BS and I cant waste them”

Possible third line “Oh my goodness!!! You’re so right!  I guess your kids probably shouldn’t stay for dinner then! Next time you can send me the menu beforehand. So sorry!!!”

[lauraw4321]

3 minutes ago, BandH said:

Just to be clear, I had cucumbers.  They apparently aren't green enough.  I also had red peppers and carrots, which they'll eat, and lettuce and squash that some of them will eat.  So, I wasn't denying them vegetables.   There's also this thing called lunch.   She could serve something green then.  

We know she’s completely off in the deep end. We’re providing some plays to add to your playbook. 

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 27, 2023 by BandH

[lauraw4321]

6 minutes ago, BandH said:

Yes, I just didn't want anyone to actually think I was depriving the children of nutrition.  

Trust me - no one thinks that. 

[Melissa Louise]

1 hour ago, BandH said:

I knew he was coming.  She asked her Dad to take him, and he said he couldn't because he was going to hospital to visit my DH.  So, she asked him if he'd bring the baby to me.  Of course he asked me, and I reached out to say I'd watch him.  This conversation happened when I reached out to say yes.  

I don't communicate directly with her much. Honestly, I wish I'd just told him to tell her yes, because the conversation wasn't that enjoyable. 

There's still a hitch in this, 'of course he asked me'.

Dad should be saying, "I'm not sure if BandH is available. Get back to me if she is, and I'll drop toddler over." I'd be willing to bet part of why SIL is like this is the family (not yours, dh's) dynamics.

~

I know you wouldn't deprive the kids of nutrients, btw, was just demonstrating gushing with some silliness.

[Melissa Louise]

Something else that helped me respond low key when I had to was to hold in mind any genuine interaction I had with my crazy IL's. I think I had one with MIL. I used to bring that to mind; it helped me endure, and not yell at her.

[Carol in Cal.]

I don't know whether this is remotely realistic but in that scenario I think I would say, 'There is a big variety of foods here, and if you want your children to have anything else that is not on the menu it would be great if you would bring it along.  I'm already finished shopping.'

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 27, 2023 by BandH

[Rosie_0801]

1 hour ago, Carol in Cal. said:

I don't know whether this is remotely realistic but in that scenario I think I would say, 'There is a big variety of foods here, and if you want your children to have anything else that is not on the menu it would be great if you would bring it along.  I'm already finished shopping.'

This kind of irrational person would find your reasonableness abusive. 

[freesia]

6 hours ago, BandH said:

Yes, I just didn't want anyone to actually think I was depriving the children of nutrition.  

The PP is right—no one thinks that.  They could also eat the Brussel Sprouts even if they don’t like them. They can also be unhappy that their cousins aren’t as picky—and maybe gain some less picky habits. You have gone above and beyond. I love some of the above answers. I honestly would have told her that she was free to bring peas if she wanted and left it at that. The family system where by the BIL brings the peas is so weird to me. I’d probably talk to FIL and get his help in setting boundaries. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by freesia

[freesia]

3 hours ago, BandH said:

Except I don’t really want to interact with her.  I would rather talk to him.

That’s why I think you need to have a serious talk with him about these dynamics. He can tell his dd no BandH is cooking, she can’t watch toddler. Tbh, he should also tell her that she needs to contribute food. Now, my dh’s family does  have a somewhat similar dynamic and when SIL invited herself to ds’s graduation and I assigned her food to bring ( she’s 50!with no kids and a special diet) it created some weird drama with me needing to send her a recipe for black bean salad. But I know my situation doesn’t have the fraught consequences yours does. So, I think that your FIL might be a line of defense for you. 

[prairiewindmomma]

The detail about where your Dh currently is and where your FIL was going tells me she was upset about FIL focusing his attention elsewhere. This conversation was never about the food. She just knows food and nutrition issues are your kryptonite. 

[prairiewindmomma]

If she was someone you could tick off, I would point that surely she feeds her own kids at some point in the day and as long as they have  some sort of vegetable then, then I am sure their nutrition will be ok. 
 

But since you can’t be overtly petty, I would serve peas forever more and if someone asks, which I don’t think they will, you can point out they are for SIL’s kids.

[Jaybee]

As a side issue, green peas are a legume and a starch. So even though yes, they are green, I (personally) don't really consider them a green vegetable. That doesn't mean they aren't good for you, but... 

The lettuce, cucumbers, etc. you are serving are plenty. She just likes to have a say in it. You know yourself that her kiddos are fine with what you are offering; you just have to decide each time whether to accommodate with peas or not. Hang in there. 

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

The detail about where your Dh currently is and where your FIL was going tells me she was upset about FIL focusing his attention elsewhere. This conversation was never about the food. She just knows food and nutrition issues are your kryptonite. 

Good catch. 

[Pam in CT]

Fervently Team Blinking, here. 

Blinking; bemused eyebrow arch; "I'm sorry, what?" accompanied by head tilt; "Ah, interesting" and "Thanks, I'll take that under advisement" -- the armory of Force Field / grayrock response.  Also, I will hold to my deathbed the counsel that RBG wrote in her memoir that her MIL gave her the night before her wedding:

Quote

Sometimes it helps to be a little deaf.

Often, actually.  #NotJustMaritalCounsel

 

re the brussel sprouts specifically, and food drama more generally (which many of the anecdotes you relay seem to touch on)-

I realize from your many meal-plan posts centered around meeting various family members' and guests' needs and preferences that this isn't at all what you actually do... but it might be interesting to see what happens if you chirped cheerfully

Quote

Not sure what I'm going to do, it's been hectic, but I'll manage to whip something up with whatever I have on hand, as the mood strikes...  If there's something specific that's critical to _____ to have, just bring it along when you come / drop them off!  Toodle-loo!

and then return to gray rock mode.

[bolt.]

It seems to me that a lot of this falls into the following pattern:

Step 1: Person A puts a reasonable amount of (invisible) thought and effort into accommodating and/or pleasing person B.

Step 2: Person A reveals the plan to person B.

Step 3: Person B finds something about the plan that could be better in her eyes, and asks for some additional accommodation, kindness, or special treatment.

Step 4: Person A thinks, "That's extra! That's a lot! That's entitlement and it's kind of offensive." -- and is inclined to decline the request, even if it's not hard, just because Person B seems to be asking for a lot: The part she asked for, plus all the before-hand invisible accommodations.

Step 5: Person B gets the impression that Person A is reluctant to do 'anything, even simple things' to please her. She compares this to the ways people go out of their way for one another all the time in this family system, and her observations resonate with her 'I'm always last' narrative that she has built for herself.

No matter what happens, Person A either does or doesn't do the thing, Person B feels that if it was done, it was done with reluctance. This confirms all of her observations and makes her expect (and create) this situation repeatedly on into the future. Everybody has something to complain about.

---

If this is accurate the answer is simple.

Forewarned is forearmed: You know she wants to ask for something special for her or her kids. She's going to make a request *every single time* because that's how she checks if she is loved, and if she is worthy, and whether she belongs. She's not going to stop doing that, whether she's staying at the equivalent of a 5-star resort, or a grimey hostel, she's going to ask for *something*.

You can move the baseline. State your original plan or offer with 'room' for her to make a request, without that request being unreasonable. It's only unreasonable because it's 'in addition to everything already on the table'... but if you do less invisible work to make her life pleasant *before* she has the chance to ask for things, then you can simply do the right/reasonable amount of work to make her life pleasant *after* she asks.

When you plan, have like a buffer or a grey zone: "Things I will probably end up doing if/when SIL ask." -- but don't express them as already part of the original 'nice, considerate, reasonable' plan. Instead of being 'Aren't I thoughtful' in the first place, be 'Aren't I accommodating' through the conversation.

Also, tell her the plans late enough that she has only a little time for one or two 'asks' -- not infinite time for as many as she can brainstorm.

[prairiewindmomma]

These books may not fit your situation exactly, but I wonder if some of the ideas from them would be helpful:

https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1684036895/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=35J587K6G0FZ&keywords=stop+walking+on+eggshells+book&qid=1677606898&sprefix=stop+walkin%2Caps%2C202&sr=8-1
 

and 

https://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Blackmail-People-Obligation-Manipulate/dp/0060928972/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=3CTAB53GLNPZE&keywords=emotional+blackmail&qid=1677606951&sprefix=emotional+blackmail%2Caps%2C196&sr=8-1

 

ETA: I think they may be helpful in recognizing the dynamics of the interactions. For me, being able to see the power plays clearly helps me detach emotionally to manage the situation for what it is and not confuse it for an interaction in a healthy dynamic. I don’t get caught as deeply in the FOG of manipulation. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by prairiewindmomma

[SKL]

4 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

... This conversation was never about the food. She just knows food and nutrition issues are your kryptonite. 

I agree.  In fact, B&H, as soon as I saw your topic header, I thought "I'll bet this has something to do with B&H providing food."

I just now saw your example re Brussels sprouts / peas.  So here are my cold observations:

• You and all of your relatives know that you feed people well and are sensitive about this.
• Unkind and dramatic people will play on this to control or bully you.
• I think you need to work on not caring what they think/say about your food.  Seriously.
• Here's how that conversation would play out with me:
  • What are you serving?
    • [Entree] and choice of vegetables.
  • What are the veggie choices?
    • Brussels sprouts, salad, or carrots.
  • Wah wah wah!
    • If there is anything specific you want served, today or any other day, please feel free to bring some.  (Repeat as necessary.)
  • Wah wah!
    • (Smiling) first world issues.  🙂

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by SKL

[KungFuPanda]

You cannot make her happy. She’s either too crazy or too selfish or both. If she’s willing to get your husband spun up, she’s going to do that no matter what you do or don’t do. She’s NOT getting better. She might have had a less awful day that got your hopes up. Who, in their right mind, gets offended that another child eats foods that your kid doesn’t??? She needs intensive therapy. 
 

She bypassed unreasonable a while ago and is completely irrational. There’s no way to appease that. I’d make a point of never asking her help for ANYthing. I’d scale back my interactions with her to the point I only saw her at whole family gatherings and keep her out of my home. I would not put myself in the position to be alone with her kids when no other objective adult is around. This is to protect you and your children. Don’t even call her. Have all of your conversations on a family text thread with same witnesses. If she doesn’t like the menu, too bad. Don’t change it. She can stay home or bring a friggin bag of frozen peas. Redirect to her husband “Susie can’t handle the menu. Please bring a green veg your kids will eat.”  Toss that hand grenade right back to HER house.
 

There are no mental gymnastics you can do to avoid her outbursts because she’s going to be offended by benign things you never considered. That’s on her. Let her pop off. Make it a drinking game if that helps, but don’t engage with the insanity. If you enable it you make life worse for everyone. 

[Carol in Cal.]

10 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

This kind of irrational person would find your reasonableness abusive. 

Yup, but I would figure that I can't possibly make them happy so I would try to be cheerful but kind of unmovable.  I might add, hey if there are peas at the house I'll cook them--just let me know.

[Rosie_0801]

31 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Yup, but I would figure that I can't possibly make them happy so I would try to be cheerful but kind of unmovable.  I might add, hey if there are peas at the house I'll cook them--just let me know.

It's easy enough for us to be cheerful in the face of wrath we're not receiving.

B&H and her children rely on this abusive person. When you rely on an abusive person, you can't afford to treat them in ways that trigger them. They already have too much power over you. You can't train them by using healthy communication techniques because they don't want to be trained. They want to be powerful, not reasonable.

One day B&H's kids will be grown, then she won't have to rely on any of them any more, at which point, SIL can go jump.

[Acadie]

I think you said above you wish you'd just told FIL you could take toddler, and not contacted SIL? That may help, to really and truly minimize personal interactions with her. There's no way to have a mutually supportive or respectful relationship with someone like that.

You went above and beyond. There's nothing else you should be doing. That relationship is an open drain down which your kindness, concern and energy could flow forever.

Sometimes I play around with disarming people like this by removing what they bitch about. Not because I should, and not because I think it will solve anything. Just to see what happens. You don't need to do this, but I kind of love the suggestion to serve peas at every effing gathering. 

There is nothing in your power that will transform this into a healthy relationship. But maybe a combination of reducing contact and removing a weapon here and there could reduce the amount of crap she's able to send your way? Just enough to give you a little break, or limit some of the damage?  

ETA: I'm writing this to myself, about an IL that has similar energy and has occupied too much of my emotional energy since Christmas. I'm imagining a little gravesite for this relationship. It's sad that it couldn't be a real and living thing. I feel some loss and grief about what might have been. But it's really, truly not possible with this person.  

Edited February 28, 2023 by Acadie

[Forget-Me-Not]

17 hours ago, BandH said:

So, this is a stupid minor one.

This weekend I made dinner for the whole family.  I thought really carefully about incorporating a variety of foods so that everyone would have things they would enjoy.  I had this Brussel sprout recipe I was excited about making, but I know her kids won't eat sprouts, so I also planned other things, including other fruits and vegetables that I know they enjoy.  

I didn't ask her to contribute, and she also asked her father to drop her toddler off so I could watch him while I cooked.  

None of these things are things I really mind.  I like cooking, so I don't mind adding more fruits and vegetables to my menu, or doing all the cooking, and I enjoy the toddler.  But, I also like to think that I was doing something nice for her and her family.  That I had already gone out of my way for them. 

So, on Saturday, she asked me what I was planning to serve, and when I told her she got really upset.  How dare I serve Brussel sprouts!  Didn't I remember that her kids didn't like them?  Why couldn't I make "kid friendly" food?  How do you think her kids feel when their cousins (my kids) "show off" by eating "weird" things that "normal" kids don't like?  It makes them feel bad!  How could I plan a meal without a single green food her kids could eat!  Don't I know that kids need green vegetables?  

I ended up replying that I was happy to incorporate peas (the only green vegetable one of her kids will eat), but that I was out, and didn't think I'd have time to get to the store before dinner the next day.  In the end her brother picked some up, but there was still lots of grumbling about my menu.  

I think in my mind, I'm trying to find a middle ground between us all sharing equally in the cooking and childcare and menu planning, and her dictating the menu and other people doing all the buying, and cooking, and childcare while she and her children are served exactly what she wants.  So, from that perspective, if I'm doing all the work, it seems fair that I include some of my favorite foods, along with some of her family's favorites. 

But in her mind, because the fact that she doesn't bring anything has been settled for a long time, and I'd already said yes to the childcare, then she feels like we need to find a middle ground between me choosing a menu for me to pay for, and cook, and clean up after while watching her toddler, and her choosing a menu for me to pay for, and cook, and clean up after while watching her toddler.  I guess by those standards, the fact that I only added one dish, and refusing to eliminate any that she objected to, comes across as really controlling, and the fact that her Dad and grandfather and siblings traitorously ate and even seemed to enjoy the Brussel sprouts was a sign of favoritism.  

Sorry, this is a novel.  

In this case I would have said, “I’m sorry your children don’t like Brussels sprouts. You’re welcome to bring another veggie they’d like.”  Then grey rock and pass the bean dip and ignore any sighing/eye-rolling while everyone else ate what you prepared. 

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 27, 2023 by BandH

[Acadie]

32 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

One day B&H's kids will be grown, then she won't have to rely on any of them any more, at which point, SIL can go jump.

And some of those kids may eventually make observations about family interactions that seem a little off to them, or that confuse or hurt or turn them off in some way. They may place their own boundaries and emotional limits on their relationships with some family members.

It's wild to see young adults developing more emotional maturity and insight, and better adult communication skills, than their elders in a family. 

[Rosie_0801]

11 minutes ago, BandH said:

But I don't rely on her.  I want to keep the peace with her, because she's going to be there whether we're at war or at peace, and because she has the potential to hurt us, but I don't need anything from her.

The bolded is what I meant.

[Acadie]

28 minutes ago, BandH said:

I rely on DH's Dad, and on DH's other two siblings, and his sister's husband.  

It's important to them that their sister/daughter and her children participate in family gatherings.  It's important to them to keep her close so that they can protect and nurture her children, the way they do mine.  I can't tell them to exclude her children from that because their mother is mentally ill, and expect them to continue to show love and grace to my kids whose father has done far worse.  

But I don't rely on her.  I want to keep the peace with her, because she's going to be there whether we're at war or at peace, and because she has the potential to hurt us, but I don't need anything from her.

I just want to say you seem very clear-eyed about who you can count on in a tough situation, and why having some contact is in your and your chldren's best interest.

So I wonder if the question is less how you respond to SIL, and more how to minimize the emotional drain for yourself. Some of the answers may be the same, but shifting the focus might lead in slightly different directions.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Acadie

[SKL]

I know this isn't similar, but sometimes my kids get on my nerves by saying "there's nothing to eat" or something similarly ridiculous.  Then I imagine having a DCS worker knock on my door and say she has a report of no food in my home.  And me taking her on a little tour of all the many food options (and clean dishes, working appliances, etc.) in my kitchen.  I picture the DCS worker rolling her eyes at the ridiculousness of a report regarding starved children.

Maybe a similar exercise would help you.  Clearly you dot all your i's and cross all your t's when it comes to feeding people.  Compared to 99.9% of the world, the people at your table are eating incredibly well, even on your worst cooking day.  You know this intellectually.  You need to really believe it in your heart.

[Faith-manor]

I think that maybe since sister in law interaction face to face is the issue, but she has the potential to be very hurtful, it might be wise to think for yourself, "How many hours of childcare can I reasonably provide knowing that it means I have to interact with her?" Then set that limit...maybe it is once every other week for three hours or whatever. Make it clear when the children must be picked up, and after the limit has been reached, "No, I am not available" without explanation is the boundary. If she is the one picking up or dropping off, deliberately call someone right as she is walking through the door so you are legitimately on the line with someone else and can't talk. I have no idea if that will work, but maybe.

The 2nd thing might be to not entertain at your house and see if there is some way to show your gratitude to your brother in law, the other brother and the sister in law. Then when it comes to family get togethers, try to get father in law to do ones that are not around meal time or at a restaurant and each family pays their own way. One idea might be if you tend to get together for Sunday dinner, stop doing that and tell father in law you need some time after mass to rest and think before socializing. Go home and cook for your own family or cook enough so fil and pops can take some home with them, and then meet later for coffee/desserts. You can do other things to thank fil like doing his grocery shopping, or vacuuming and dusting. You could offer the same type of helps to brother and sil, and not center showing your appreciate around the whole group at once. For the other brother in law, he has to have figured out by now that his wife is off the charts mean and selfish, so he shouldn't be shocked. Maybe you can communicate with him privately, thanking him for his contributions to your children's lives.

Beyond that, I don't know. Grey rock, text only, remove as much of her currency as possible. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Faith-manor

[*LC]

23 minutes ago, SKL said:Clearly you dot all your i's and cross all your t's when it comes to feeding people.  Compared to 99.9% of the world, the people at your table are eating incredibly well, even on your worst cooking day.  You know this intellectually.  You need to really believe it in your heart.

The quote above says what everyone else on this thread (and all the similar ones before it) understand, you go above and beyond in planning and feeding family and guests. You are amazing.

I completely agree with that assessment. Full stop. End of Discussion.

However, I have some picky eaters along with my eat-anything eaters. some of most-adventurous eaters now were picky toddlers. 

So, I do not think it is a crazy idea to keep canned green peas in your pantry that you can open, warm in the microwave, and put on the table whenever a picky toddler or kid or adult comes to dinner. You would do this, because you are a wonderful hostess who wants all your guests to be happy. Don’t make things hard for the picky eaters at your dinner just because SIL is the one that mentioned peas in a completely inappropriate way.

[Amy in NH]

4 minutes ago, *LC said:

The quote above says what everyone else on this thread (and all the similar ones before it) understand, you go above and beyond in planning and feeding family and guests. You are amazing.

I completely agree with that assessment. Full stop. End of Discussion.

However, I have some picky eaters along with my eat-anything eaters. some of most-adventurous eaters now were picky toddlers. 

So, I do not think it is a crazy idea to keep canned green peas in your pantry that you can open, warm in the microwave, and put on the table whenever a picky toddler or kid or adult comes to dinner. You would do this, because you are a wonderful hostess who wants all your guests to be happy. Don’t make things hard for the picky eaters at your dinner just because SIL is the one that mentioned peas in a completely inappropriate way.

But she had already prepared an acceptable alternative, so the peas were really overkill.

[freesia]

7 minutes ago, Amy in NH said:

But she had already prepared an acceptable alternative, so the peas were really overkill.

Yes, she said there were plenty of fruits and vegetables they would eat. And, like I said before, seeing older cousins eat new food could be a good thing for these kids. But that’s not really the issue she needs to fight—and isn’t bc she did make sure there were alternatives. Remember these were the kids whose mom thought it would ruin their Thanksgiving to have any food there that they didn’t like. Does she think they feel left out of the bounty? That’s neither her nor there. OP, you are doing great. You’ve gotten some great ideas to try. 

[Not_a_Number]

OK, here's what would happen if the Brussel sprout thing happened to me. I'll walk you through it. 

First, I'd get REALLY upset. I mean, that's just nuts. It's nitpicking. You're making food for her family!! You're watching her kid!!! This is an incredibly uncharitable interpretation!! 

After a while, I'd calm down. I'd take some space. And I'd realize that there's actually no meaning here at all. This is word salad that basically means "I'm irrational, I'm really upset at you and I'm not doing very well." That there are no needs involved, either for me or for her. There are simply raw feelings. 

And then I'd think about what I'd want to do with that. Frankly, in your situation, I'd probably just not engage, because I would NOT have the juice. I'd smile, look regretful, and say something meaningless like "Oh, I'm sorry they feel bad. That must suck. I hope they can find something to eat" and repeat that over and over and over again. 

if I ever had the space to troubleshoot it, I'd try to figure out what was actually bugging her. It's certainly not the Brussel sprouts. As I said... that's just word salad. 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Not_a_Number

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 27, 2023 by BandH

[Clarita]

12 minutes ago, BandH said:

But it's also a slippery slope. I used to make sure I included at least one of the three foods she considers vegetables* that she knows her kids will eat, but I also made things the rest of us liked.  After a while, she complained that her kids didn't get a choice like mine did, so I started always incorporating at least two.  I'm pretty sure that this weekend we established that my job is to provide all three at every meal.  

You know  if you had a menu of all of her kids favorite foods she'd still be unhappy. From everything you've told us she's always going to be unhappy because she can't be satisfied unless she finds something to complain about. If you go far enough away from the slope she'll bring in an excavator.

I guarantee you she'll find something else to be unhappy with even when you've provided 3 choices of veggies at every meal.

 

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 27, 2023 by BandH
mistyped

[Not_a_Number]

I'm kind of curious... has she always been this irrational?? Because this is something else. She sounds really off the wall. 

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 27, 2023 by BandH

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 27, 2023 by BandH

[Jaybee]

10 minutes ago, BandH said:

I can't decide if "princessy" is a misogynistic term or not.  I might come back and change it. 

Misogynistic or not, it's a useful descriptor! 😂 

[Not_a_Number]

Yeah. Those sound like pretty deep and longstanding issues 😕 . And she sounds like a person who will take advantage of you if you let her, which is just difficult to deal with all the time. I'm sorry. 

I'd be very interested what it is that's making her work your DH up. There must be some subterranean motivations there. Maybe it makes her feel more important or righteous... 

[catz]

I have had people in my life like this go off about random things.  A couple things I use at times is playing dumb "wow, that sounds hard for your kids?  Maybe you'd like to swing by the grocery store and pick up something?"  Another approach is directly responding to the response as if it is not rational or reasonable because it is not "Wow -that came out of left field.  I know this isn't about brussel sprouts.  Is everything ok with you?".  I'd shoot for rational witnesses as much as possible and defering to the family.  Heck, she could and should host and show you all how it's done.  

I really don't understand how a woman who has birthed 4 kids and doesn't have a day job needs SO.MUCH.HELP.  When my kids were toddlers, if I got 2-3 hours one evening a month, I was doing good.  My kids got dragged to sibling events. 

Be kind to yourself.  You are single parenting, working, keeping peace, cooking OTT meals for large groups, juggling a crazy lady and have all the burden of your spouse's illness to bear.  The biggest thing I'd work on is just letting these interactions go.  You can't fix her - she is broken.  I'd want to make sure that if my kids regularly saw me bending over backwards for someone like this without calling it out n the moment regularly, I'd be discussing with them why in an ongoing way.  

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 27, 2023 by BandH

[Carol in Cal.]

Depression always lies, and jealousy is always very ugly.  The combo is just awful