Mom...love/"love"...a message received... :(

[BakersDozen]

I got this today from my mom. I feel hot and cold and my hands are shaking. She still doesn't know that I saw her rating list. She got one thing right - disgust, loathing, disrespect felt toward/for her - check, check, check. I have it in BLACK AND WHITE that she does not love me, that she loves coffee shops and landscaping more than me. She now wants me to feel loved and appreciated?!?! She LIED to her friends, her family, her medical care team about me over and over! She has allowed LIES to be held in order to protect herself and secure her own "needs."

I do not need to love my mom. I need to love God and so I choose to not go over to her house and go off on her the way I know I could. I won't dishonor her and that is all that is required of me as a daughter.

She wants my love. She loves me. What a sick, sick, sick joke. Unending love for me....I think she has me confused with the other items on her double-sided list.

Ask me how much of a crying mess I am right now. No, don't ask.

[Grace Hopper]

Did you take a snapshot of that list when you found it? Because that image is the only reply I’d send back. 

Is she in some kind of dire straits and in sudden need of your labor? 
 

I’m so sorry she threw that word salad at you. 

 

 

[fraidycat]

I'm sorry you have to deal with this toxic sludge. Hugs.

[Rosie_0801]

Ew.

[BakersDozen]

19 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

Did you take a snapshot of that list when you found it? Because that image is the only reply I’d send back.

I have a picture of it as well as a photocopy, yes. And I thought about sending it back to her. Right now, I don't even know how to calm the raging in my head. Would sending her that make this stop? Because I can't do this.

[Rosie_0801]

You don't have to be nice if you don't want to.

[Grace Hopper]

4 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

You don't have to be nice if you don't want to.

⬆️ 100%
 

You don’t have to be nice. You don’t have to be anything to her. 
 

Probably best to resolve to do/decide on nothing tonight. You’re probably too upset to easily go to sleep, but do let any thoughts on how to react wait overnight. 

Eta fwiw she is trying to provoke a reaction. The best way to get under her skin is probably to refuse to engage at all. Definitely not swiftly. 

Edited January 29, 2023 by Grace Hopper

[Harriet Vane]

4 minutes ago, BakersDozen said:

I have a picture of it as well as a photocopy, yes. And I thought about sending it back to her. Right now, I don't even know how to calm the raging in my head. Would sending her that make this stop? Because I can't do this.

My guess is that it will escalate a big response from her with denial and gaslighting. It may feel freeing to you to tell her The Truth, or you may wish you had never told her because of the stress of the drama it creates. Only you can know if you will feel better telling her (letting her rage roll right off you) or if you will wither under the backlash. 

I would not do anything at all tonight. I don't think it will stop the tornado in your head, tbh, because these emotions take time. If you choose to send her the picture you have, do it only under careful consideration and accepting what happens after.

And as Rosie said, you don't have to be nice. 

 

[BakersDozen]

2 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

Probably best to resolve to do/decide on nothing tonight. You’re probably too upset to easily go to sleep, but do let any thoughts on how to react wait overnight. 

I will wait. Sleep...I wish I could just sleep and not think about this/her.

[BakersDozen]

8 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

You don't have to be nice if you don't want to.

I am actually very afraid of giving in and not being nice, because of what might happen. What I would say, how I would say it - I could see myself becoming unhinged, I think. It's a scary thought. 😞

[vonfirmath]

Is this a text? if so, I think I'd try my best to ignore it. not respond. As far as she's concerned, I never saw it at all. She does not deserve to know you care enough to get upset about it.

 

[prairiewindmomma]

She wants a reaction from you. Do you want to give that to her?

I just view the “poor me” as another tool in her emotional manipulation toolbox, just like rage is. 
 

If she wanted connection, this text would have been about you, not about her…she would have been texting asking what she could do to make things right, apologizing, etc. Instead, she frames herself as a victim.

[BakersDozen]

7 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

I don't think it will stop the tornado in your head

That is exactly how this feels. Like things are spinning and flying every which way and mental debris and emotions raging so loudly, it makes me want to scream.

[Rosie_0801]

7 minutes ago, BakersDozen said:

I am actually very afraid of giving in and not being nice, because of what might happen. What I would say, how I would say it - I could see myself becoming unhinged, I think. It's a scary thought. 😞

Less than what has happened to you, I bet.

Even if you do become unhinged, you'll recover. 

I screamed blue murder over the phone at someone once, because they wouldn't stop lying, and nearly made them cry. They put their lies in writing after that, which I found much easier to deal with.

[BakersDozen]

1 minute ago, vonfirmath said:

Is this a text? if so, I think I'd try my best to ignore it. not respond. As far as she's concerned, I never saw it at all. She does not deserve to know you care enough to get upset about it.

 

Yes, it's a text. I'm afraid if I don't eventually acknowledge it, she'll show up in person. With how I'm feeling right now, that would be bad. But she won't show up tonight and I'll try to be gone tomorrow. I hate this.

[Rosie_0801]

The moral to my story is, if you're going to scream, do it thoroughly.

[Harriet Vane]

Awwww, warm hugs. I know that feeling. Sometimes it's a feeling that needs soothing (like watching a movie and eating brownies) and other times it's a feeling that won't go away without exercising until I sweat. Is there something that might help you equalize a little bit?

[BakersDozen]

Just now, Rosie_0801 said:

The moral to my story is, if you're going to scream, do it thoroughly.

that is awesome

[prairiewindmomma]

Just now, Rosie_0801 said:

The moral to my story is, if you're going to scream, do it thoroughly.

Yes, and if you scream, do it for you and not for her.

Personally, though, I recommend finding the zen state of just not being arsed about a person. 

 

[Rosie_0801]

The other moral to my story is that screaming is better than swallowing it all, because suppressing that much shit gives people autoimmune diseases and no one is worth having an auto immune disease over.

[BakersDozen]

Just now, Harriet Vane said:

Awwww, warm hugs. I know that feeling. Sometimes it's a feeling that needs soothing (like watching a movie and eating brownies) and other times it's a feeling that won't go away without exercising until I sweat. Is there something that might help you equalize a little bit?

I know exercising might help but I can't make myself get up and go do it. I feel like I'm barely keeping it together and so remain on my chair in my corner of the kitchen.

[Forget-Me-Not]

I think if you respond, you’ll be in more turmoil waiting to see what her reaction will be. Give yourself space to process and decide what you really want to do, whether that’s ignore or send that picture or call her up and scream until you lose your voice. 
 

I’m so sorry. You deserve better. 

[Grace Hopper]

3 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

The other moral to my story is that screaming is better than swallowing it all, because suppressing that much shit gives people autoimmune diseases and no one is worth having an auto immune disease over.

Amen!

 

[Faith-manor]

I think if I were in your shoes, I would change my cell phone number and never give it to her warning everyone else to never give it to her as well.

Put a note on the door that she is not welcome. Please leave. Lock the doors. Don't answer.

She has done this to you so many times that you are going to end up with a heart attack or something. She is provoking flight or fight too much. It isn't good for your health.

Sometimes we do have to save ourselves. That is a valid choice.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Faith-manor
Typos

[Sneezyone]

I have this parent in my life. Or used to be in my life. The only way to make it stop is to completely cut them off/gray rock. The hardest part is when you have a sibling who can’t/won’t do the same and tries to share details of parent contact. Don’t care, don’t share. My life is infinitely better for it.

[BakersDozen]

3 minutes ago, Forget-Me-Not said:

I think if you respond, you’ll be in more turmoil waiting to see what her reaction will be.

Ah, yes, you are so right. Thank you.

[BakersDozen]

7 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Personally, though, I recommend finding the zen state of just not being arsed about a person. 

I think I have reached a point of not zen but at least able to shrug things off. But this one...can't do it.

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, BakersDozen said:

I think I have reached a point of not zen but at least able to shrug things off. But this one...can't do it.

Takes practice. The longer you go, the easier it gets. Now I only get random inquiries/jibes from third parties.

[BakersDozen]

I'm going to catapult myself off this chair and make a beeline for the bike, so please don't think I'm ignoring anyone. You ladies are...oh gosh, cue the waterworks...again. What would I do without you all? OK, I have to go find some tissues...

[vonfirmath]

So if you want to ignore the text, you need to know what you are going to do if she shows up on your doorstep.

 

If you can do it without breaking down, i recommend  a "You are not welcome here" and closing the door.

Perhaps offering the picture of the list you found.  -- Perhaps not thought because that might just give her ammunition to "argue" about how you didn't understand what you saw. 

[gardenmom5]

I'm sorry.

Some people don't have it in themselves to be parents.

[Shoeless]

1 hour ago, BakersDozen said:

I am actually very afraid of giving in and not being nice, because of what might happen. What I would say, how I would say it - I could see myself becoming unhinged, I think. It's a scary thought. 😞

I became unhinged once. It was kind of like an out of body experience, because I could hear myself screaming at the other person while I thought "Wow...well, there's no coming back from any of this". 

I felt awful for a long while after, but it's actually a moment I'm proud of because I finally stood up for myself. 

I'm not saying you should definitely go off on your mom. But if you do? The end result may not be nearly as devastating as you imagine. 

[popmom]

45 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

I became unhinged once. It was kind of like an out of body experience, because I could hear myself screaming at the other person while I thought "Wow...well, there's no coming back from any of this". 

I felt awful for a long while after, but it's actually a moment I'm proud of because I finally stood up for myself. 

I'm not saying you should definitely go off on your mom. But if you do? The end result may not be nearly as devastating as you imagine. 

I agree with this. For so long I strongly adhered to the "do not engage" rule as it pertains to narcs. Then I (reference Rosie's comment above) got dx'ed with an auto-immune disorder. This news came shortly after my mother left me two voicemails and one message on social media--tearful, fake apologetic messages with an invitation to go shopping. When the gravity of my diagnosis really sank in, I got so angry. I felt rage. I messaged her back on social media. I was far enough along in my therapy and healing that I knew I could handle anything she threw at me. My message was short and NOT so sweet. She actually didn't even respond directly to me. She just went on a gossip rampage to my siblings, a couple of my kids, and probably some extended family. That actually wasn't the first time I told her ((truth)). Before this I had actually told her that until she got a thorough psychiatric evaluation and intensive treatment for her personality disorder, that there was no hope of us ever reconciling. Totally breaking all of the rules there. I am not a petty person. And I have zero regrets for those two instances of "engaging". I knew that I could handle the consequences. 

Interestingly, it was those initial messages from her --like what you've just received--that were the most upsetting. Really rattled me. just like you are describing. My response made me feel better both times. I didn't become unhinged because it was done in writing. If you think she'll show up on your doorstep, tape a photocopy of the list to your door. 

I think the key here is: Do not expect your engaging/raging/truth-telling to have any positive effect on her. She won't change. If you engage/rage/etc--you do that for YOU. It's only for YOU. 

ETA: I can't remember. How long ago was it that you found the list?

Edited January 29, 2023 by popmom

[Kassia]

I'm sorry too.  I know what it's like to let someone like that get under your skin (my mother was a toxic dangerous narcissist).  It's an awful feeling - like you're not safe in your own home.  Big hugs to you and I agree with the others to not give her a reaction and to have a plan in case she shows up.  I feel terrible that you have to go through this. 

[BakersDozen]

1 hour ago, MissLemon said:

I became unhinged once. It was kind of like an out of body experience, because I could hear myself screaming at the other person while I thought "Wow...well, there's no coming back from any of this". 

I felt awful for a long while after, but it's actually a moment I'm proud of because I finally stood up for myself. 

I'm not saying you should definitely go off on your mom. But if you do? The end result may not be nearly as devastating as you imagine.

My fear is what I might actually say. In all my adult years, I've not gone on a screaming rampage against anyone (not in person, at least). Memories of my mom doing that to others and with me have held me back, because the things she said that she can never take back, the horrible hurt, and the hate-filled moment...I never wanted to be part of that, especially as the one going off on/at someone. Even if I were justified, I'm still so afraid. I think I don't care so much how it would affect her - in fact, I don't care at all. But how would I feel about giving in to my own emotions? Maybe it would feel horrible...or it would feel great. I don't know...yet it's also true that the effect of holding back is being felt by me, and that's not good, either. This just stinks.

[BakersDozen]

1 hour ago, popmom said:

I think the key here is: Do not expect your engaging/raging/truth-telling to have any positive effect on her. She won't change. If you engage/rage/etc--you do that for YOU. It's only for YOU. 

This is a hard one for me to read even though I know it's true. There is still that thing in me that thinks something I say (yell??) will actually get through to her. It's foolishness, I know. 

It's been a year, I think. My friend who is in town once/year was here and she just left a week or so ago.

Edited January 29, 2023 by BakersDozen

[BakersDozen]

 

double post - sorry

Edited January 29, 2023 by BakersDozen

[popmom]

1 minute ago, BakersDozen said:

 

That I can do. Would she even realize the message/point, I wonder? Her perception of things is so...wrong. What a mess.

It doesn't matter. Do it for you.

I truly believe they DO get it. She, of course, will never let you know that, but they know what they are. They know what they are doing. My mother has mentioned things over the years... enough stuff that I know she knows deep down that she's--to put it diplomatically--not right. Not right in the head. Not right period. They know. So if you tape that to your door, at least she knows that YOU know. 

[Rosie_0801]

1 hour ago, BakersDozen said:

 But how would I feel about giving in to my own emotions? 

Justified, I expect.

I felt justified anyway. The person lying to me had already taken everything they could take. Why were they even bothering to continue lying?

And they probably don't remember anyway. Anything unpleasant enough gets wiped from their memory.

[Indigo Blue]

1 hour ago, Rosie_0801 said:

And they probably don't remember anyway. Anything unpleasant enough gets wiped from their memory.

So true.

[Katy]

I’m sorry. She wants any response you’ll give her for narcissistic supply. I think your instinct to ignore is a good one. As is your thought that the only ones you need to please is yourself and God. 

[mlktwins]

I’m so sorry. I cannot relate to this with a parent, but I did have a bad friend relationship and she crapped all over me. It is 4.5 years later and she still gets my goat if/when I think about her and what she did. I don’t think about her much anymore because I know she is sleeping good at night thinking she didn’t do anything wrong (her perception) and that all the crap she wrote out to me (her version) was actually reality. I did write her back, but took the high road and have never said what I truly think/feel. I do regret that sometimes 😁, but knowing her, she will never accept the truth no matter what I say.

In my opinion, your mom is probably not sitting up all night upset about the fact that she hurt you with her message. She did the damage and you are the one hurt/angry/shaking and up all night thinking about it. Like swirling around your head all night. Your heart is probably racing as fast as your mind. I get it. 
 

You can’t control her actions, you can only control your reaction/response to them. It is bothering you and not necessarily bothering her (sad as that is). I think it will bother her more if you don’t respond or engage at all. But then you need to work to let it go on your end. It is hurting you, not her.  You know she is messed up. Block her number and email. Don’t answer the door if she shows up. 
 

Or…you can send her the ranking, rage at her and let it out and then block her, etc. Either way, you need to find a way to let it go.

 

[Indigo Blue]

You know the truth. Not her truth, but what actually happened. She can’t take that from you. You know what really happened.

You didn’t deserve that.

Try to take the time to get your emotions back in check. Then you can better think about how you want to respond. 
 

You are so raw right now. Comfort your wounded self and let the mature adult in you rise to the top and be the one in charge. Heal, and go back to your place of indifference. This was a big one. You WILL feel better. 
 

What Rosie said……about their erasing from their memory all the crap they do…..just disgusts me. It’s just disgusting that they do this. 

[HomeAgain]

I tell myself that nobody requires me to engage with a sh!t show.

It takes some willpower to remove yourself and treat relationships with the same indifference you would watch daytime tv with.  You don't need to engage.  You can watch from a distance and change the channel when you're tired of it.  Perhaps not the healthiest, but for irreparable relationships it is a sanity saver.

[livetoread]

Another option is find someone willing to be the stand-in for your mom and rage at them. Scream at them, tell them everything you want to say to her. It can feel really good to get that out and writing it doesn't give the same physical release as yelling it. If it feels too hard to do it to a person, a willing tree stump has worked for me as well.

[cuckoomamma]

I thought of you recently because my mom is a narcissist and I recently fell into trusting her again but also found evidence of her throwing me under the bus that reminded me of your mom’s list. It was super gut wrenching but made me find it slightly easier to accept that she’s never going to change. It prompted me to start listening to HG Tudor’s yt channel describing different types of narcissists and their traits. I can only listen to one at a time with some distance in between because it’s emotionally overwhelming to me to try to accept my mom never loved me as much as I’ve always felt that, you know? 
 

I don’t think you should ever show her the list. I think she’d feel a thrill at having hurt you and then deny it and spin it in some negative way onto you. Ultimately you want peace for yourself and she’ll never co-sign that if she’s a narcissist. You need to give that to yourself. So, share the list with us and anyone you trust but I don’t think you feel vindicated by confronting her with it. If she shows up just tell her to leave, she’s no longer welcome and shut the door. 
 

Im sorry for what you’re going through and really appreciate you sharing your story, as it certainly made me feel less lonely recently. Sending peace your way.

[Garga]

I think this is the time for the final block. Block everything from her and be done. Don’t answer any knocks at the door. 

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, Garga said:

I think this is the time for the final block. Block everything from her and be done. Don’t answer any knocks at the door. 

Yes. When someone is this toxic, this determined to cause pain, it isn't healthy to continue to have contact. I liken it to this. If one feels a religious need to honor a toxic parent, then the ultimate act of honoring them is to no longer willingly provide them prey on which to be a predator. Think of it as eliminating at least one source of sin if that is a religious factor. Some people can't stop being predators, but we can do whatever is reasonable to limit their destructive power.

[saraha]

I am so sorry and hope you are feeling better. I know what it’s like to have her number show up on caller id and have a huge physical reaction. It used to take me hours or days to recover.  I hope you are being gentle with yourself, able to get some rest, and however you decide to react, you feel ok with your decision. You are a survivor and you will survive this too.

I did the screaming thing last thanksgiving. I became totally unglued, and while it made no real difference in her, it was the thing that has finally gotten me on the road to taking charge of myself and my relationship with her. I lost my everloving mind on her and the world didn’t end. I didn’t die. The next day still came. From there I have been slowly reshaping. It has been a two steps forward, one step back kind of progress, but progress none the less.
 

And I am so glad I started venting it all here. I know anyone can read it, I know if someone was looking for me, my name is here, my location etc. but I don’t care.  Having this supportive outlet has been instrumental in my progress.

Hugs to you @BakersDozen

[Corraleno]

I would not show your mom that list (ever) because (1) she'll have the satisfaction of knowing how much she hurt you, (2) she will argue about your interpretation of the list and accuse you of misunderstanding and overreacting, and (3) she will treat it as a one-off "incident," rather than a representation of her inherent narcissism, and insist that you're a terrible selfish person if you won't forgive her for that "one little thing."

I felt a huge sense of relief when I finally sat down and wrote out a long letter to my mother telling her exactly how I felt about her and why I was cutting her off. But I was careful to focus on patterns of behavior rather than specific incidents, because I knew that if I brought up specific incidents she would totally focus on those and either claim that I misremembered them (and then tell me her versions while insisting that hers were true) and/or insist that those things were NBD and were all in the past and that God commanded me to forgive her. 

Before I wrote that letter, I had had a frequently recurring dream for years where I was at a big holiday dinner with all my extended family, and she was sniping at me and making snide digs and put downs and I finally stood up and told everyone what she was really like and all the horrible things she had done and said to me (including explicitly refusing to protect me from sexual abuse). After I sent the letter, I never had that dream again. I realized how much of that I had been carrying around with me for years, and I felt like a 1000 lb burden had been lifted from me.

I recommend that you sit down and write a letter (on the computer, not by hand, because you will undoubtedly revise it a lot!) saying all the things you want to say to her, and then just save it for a while. It will help release some of the anger to get it out of you and onto (virtual) paper, and then you can let it just sit for a bit. Go back and read it in a few days and see if there's anything you want to add, delete, reword. Eventually you may get to the point that you want to send it and cut contact, or you may decide to just keep it for yourself and add to it whenever you get angry. Just knowing that it's there and that you can send it and cut things off any time you want can help you feel more in control.