How would you interpret this comment?

[Lecka]

Honestly I think if the current supervision level is “an adult is in the house, while kids are around the house,” and other adults in the house will invite kids over with this as the accepted level of supervision, I think it’s time to talk to other adults about changing the supervision.

I think either limiting some things to when you are home, or making other rules about where kids can be.  
 

That is awkward but with re-reading another adult heard this same comment and will know what it is about.

Frankly for another adult to hear that comment and not agree to change in some way, to me would be very strange.

The thing is that this is your home and your kids’ home, but I doubt you are in charge of who gets invited and how long people can stay, if other adults also make invitations.

I think that needs to change.  
 

I think it needs to be your house and your kids’ house first, because it is their house.  The SIL and her family have their own house.  
 

That has not been how it has been for me when I have stayed with grandparents, because we have been the secondary decision-maker and grandparents have been the primary decision-maker, for things like this.
 

I think that would need to change, but I think this is appropriate and it should make sense on behalf of your kids, to have things work out primarily for them in their own home.  
 

It’s too bad it can’t be how it has been up to now, but I think that ship has sailed.

But I also think these can be good changes.  I don’t think they would be negative, just different.  
 

 

[Ausmumof3]

I’ve had a situation where one of my kids had an older friendship that I became concerned about. I dealt with the by basically supervising closely and encouraging youngest to find more friends his own age not by making snarky comments. It’s not unreasonable for your sil to be concerned though even though it’s so frustrating that things are like this when there are so many lovely innocent friendships of this nature. But good things are ruined by the few I guess 

I currently have a related but different situation where one kid has become friends with an older kid who I think is not quite neurotypical. He has made a couple of comments along the way that aren’t super appropriate for youngest age groups. He is actually pretty innocent and doesn’t mean anything by it he just sees ds as a peer and doesn’t realise he’s so much younger.

[Faith-manor]

4 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

So you wouldn't allow your 7 year old to go to her grandparents' house if cousins were there and you weren't?

 

We did not allow it. My MIL and FIL were beyond terrible at supervising grandkids. Like, they would forget there were toddlers and preschoolers in the house.

[Faith-manor]

2 hours ago, Lecka said:

Maybe if she said in her comment how she didn’t want to change anything because she wants the free babysitting, she just wants to say nasty things too, or she has a concern but is going to drop her daughter off for babysitting anyways?

It is bizarre.

It is not normal. 

It is not a joke.

It is not funny.

Either she really has a concern and is handling it in this bizarre way, or she is going to go after kids now.

Seriously if she is testing the waters to see what she can get away with — I think it needs to be met with a consequence like — limits on visits.  Maybe to include only when she is present.  Maybe to include other close supervision.  
 

I would not let them be in a room alone or outside alone.  
 

And neither should this woman if she is going to make comments like this.

This. I would not allow this woman around my son, and if that meant not having any of her kids over, then that is the consequence she will incur. I would not feel bad about that.

I have an evil, narcissistic sister in law who we have cut out of our lives, and that was the very best thing for my kids.

[sassenach]

The thing that sucks about this is that teen boys are treated differently than teen girls. Unfortunately, there's a legit reason for this, but that doesn't mean it doesn't sting. I'm 8 years older than my first set of cousins and 11 years older than my favorite cousin (who is a boy). We even slept in the same bed at my grandparent's house. I doted on my cousins and delighted in teaching them things. I can absolutely see that as an innocent and ok thing. Sadly, me being a girl makes the whole thing less suspicious, which is a shame because I see it as really sweet.

That said, I would be so, so cautious. It's really about protecting your son. The fact that she said that is alarming. 

Edited January 23, 2022 by sassenach

[Drama Llama]

Thanks everyone.  Unfortunately, I think you've all reinforced what I thought which is that I take it seriously, that there are implications to what she's saying.

I think the pandemic provides context to their relationship.  They had a year when the 5 of them (SIL's 3 girls and my 2 boys) were together almost every day, and for a lot of time they weren't seeing any other kids.  DS14 did a lot of caretaking for the kids when the adults were all busy working online.  So, they do have a different relationship than most cousins.  

I'm pretty sure that SIL doesn't actually think her daughter is unsafe with my son.  If she did, I assume she'd come to someone directly, not throwing it into the middle of a conversation.  She certainly hasn't acted in the past as if she thinks they're unsafe.  The kids are never in the house alone, because we always see them at family gatherings, but they certainly play outside without an adult out there.  

I need to talk to DH, we didn't get a chance today, but I think I'd like to set a new rule that the kids are always within eye sight of an adult.  I just need to figure out how to explain that to my kids.  

[Drama Llama]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

This. I would not allow this woman around my son, and if that meant not having any of her kids over, then that is the consequence she will incur. I would not feel bad about that.

I have an evil, narcissistic sister in law who we have cut out of our lives, and that was the very best thing for my kids.

I can't do that as long as we live with her father.  

[Drama Llama]

1 hour ago, Lecka said:

 

That is awkward but with re-reading another adult heard this same comment and will know what it is about.

 

This SIL, my other SIL, and I were texting together, trying to figure out timing and menu for tomorrow.  My oldest SIL called her sister and was like WTF? I didn't respond in the moment. 

It turns out they all can come tomorrow, so I guess we'll talk.  

[Drama Llama]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

We did not allow it. My MIL and FIL were beyond terrible at supervising grandkids. Like, they would forget there were toddlers and preschoolers in the house.

But would it be because of the cousins?  They left their kids with my FIL for a few weeks this summer, so I assume they don't think he's a terrible caregiver.  

[Harriet Vane]

I think you should make it crystal clear to the other adults that to protect your son from unfounded, nasty comments, it's best for kids to be directly supervised by an adult. This isn't about a danger your son poses to another child. You trust your son. Your choices are to protect HIM, and you do not want it implied anywhere that he is untrustworthy in any way. You might choose to phrase it more carefully, but the point is to be firm and clear that you trust your son and those comments are inappropriate.

It would be different if the 7yo girl confided to someone that he touched her or did something that made her uncomfortable. OF COURSE in such a situation the child would be believed and supported. But she didn't. This is just a grown woman making nasty, ugly, dangerous comments about a young teenager with no evidence whatsoever. This is not something to pussyfoot around! Because that suggestion is ruinous and devastating, especially if it's allowed to grow in peoples' minds, so it is essential to protect your son from any such suggestion.

And yes, I would absolutely maintain a policy of not leaving any kids alone with sil's kids. She's nuts and she'll say anything.

[Drama Llama]

4 hours ago, plaidpants said:

Also, 14 is more than old enough to babysit, especially a 7 year old. Is that an issue? 

This is why men don't go into teaching younger grades and dads alone at the park with their kids get stinky eyed.

Apparently I have thoughts about this.

He has never babysat them alone, because no one has anywhere to go in a pandemic, but he's definitely gone over there to entertain the kids while their mom takes a nap with the baby, and he watched them a ton (all 4 younger kids together) while parents were working from home in the same house.  

[Harriet Vane]

4 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

He has never babysat them alone, because no one has anywhere to go in a pandemic, but he's definitely gone over there to entertain the kids while their mom takes a nap with the baby, and he watched them a ton (all 4 younger kids together) while parents were working from home in the same house.  

What a sweet guy! I'm sorry sil said what she said.

[katilac]

I'll offer a faint defense for sil: saying something is weird is not the same as saying something is creepy. It's still a rude remark, but she's not necessarily implying that her nephew is a creeper (one would hope not, as she does allow it). 

[Drama Llama]

9 minutes ago, katilac said:

I'll offer a faint defense for sil: saying something is weird is not the same as saying something is creepy. It's still a rude remark, but she's not necessarily implying that her nephew is a creeper (one would hope not, as she does allow it). 

I would love to think that.  I mean I've called my own kids weird, so I don't think weird always means creepy, but I have trouble hearing something else.

[Dianthus]

47 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I would love to think that.  I mean I've called my own kids weird, so I don't think weird always means creepy, but I have trouble hearing something else.

This also occurred to me. She could just be saying it's weird/immature. 

I would discuss though. You can't leave it alone.

[Drama Llama]

18 minutes ago, Spirea said:

This also occurred to me. She could just be saying it's weird/immature. 

I would discuss though. You can't leave it alone.

What would be the mature thing to do in that situation?  A couple families are together.  One teenager, everyone else is either adult or younger kid. What would other people's kids do?

[lauraw4321]

42 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

What would be the mature thing to do in that situation?  A couple families are together.  One teenager, everyone else is either adult or younger kid. What would other people's kids do?

My youngest has friends over all the time. They are neighborhood friends her age. My oldest pretty much stays in her room when they are here. In fact, her New Year resolution was to play with her younger sisters more. It’s not something she enjoys doing.  My 11 y/o does try to play with them sometimes but often gets frustrated and stays in her room a lot too. 

[katilac]

1 hour ago, Baseballandhockey said:

What would be the mature thing to do in that situation?  A couple families are together.  One teenager, everyone else is either adult or younger kid. What would other people's kids do?

Okay, that's two very different questions.

I think most teenagers, if they chose to play with the younger kids, would do so more in a group situation. Perhaps tag outside, Uno inside, that kind of thing.  Or they would choose not to play for the most part. 

But, just bc I think that's what other people's kids would do, doesn't mean I think it's the 'mature thing' to do, just the common thing. Paying attention to the littles can certainly be a mature choice. 

One thing I did notice is that there is a 9-yr-old as well. This is also substantially younger than your ds, so I'd encourage him to be conscious of being inclusive and welcoming to both of the littles.  Not that he would be EXcluding, but sometimes a dynamic develops and the other kid doesn't join in unless invited. 

[Carrie12345]

I haven’t read all the comments.

As a kid on the spectrum, my oldest was always more comfortable with either adults or kids younger than him, regardless of gender. And my current teen boy really enjoys hanging out with our friend’s kids, who are three and seven(ish) years younger than him, in person and online. One boy, one girl.
Meanwhile, my girls developed close relationships with several adult men (our friends, in a volunteer organization) as teens.

The thing is, imo, that those things ARE ‘weird’ and, again, imo, deserve some sort of degree of caution, because there ARE risks when it comes to age/power differences.  It doesn’t mean anything bad is happening or will happen. But our kids in inferior positions should be protected from risk, and our kids in superior positions should be protected from suspicion.

At least, that’s my position as a parent of both boys and girls who have been on both ends.

It is ‘weird’ in that it isn’t the social norm, but I would take ‘weird’ in the quote given to mean there’s some discomfort about the age and gender difference that is a pretty rational risk assessment. As difficult as it may be, I would not take it personally. As the relative of a child who was recently assaulted, seemingly out of nowhere, by a trusted relative (other side, not mine), I won’t ever expect others to offer blind trust to me, my kids, my spouse, whomever. 

Clearly I allow these relationships my kids have/have had to continue, but with close involvement and awareness.

[Doodlebug]

I think a comment like that, in the context of prior experiences with this sil, is an escalation.

Interfamily abuse by a teen is not a hypothetical for me.  It is exceedingly difficult because of the emotional and mental hurdles family members must clear as they process that a child they love is also a perpetrator.  

Too, family life doesn’t  function like a message board where “concerns” are floated without consequence.  Dont mean to preach there, but there’s nothing casual about a comment that insinuates potential inappropriateness on the part of a 14 yo boy. 

[Katy]

DH didn’t remember the backstory or details. His instant response was that the older cousin is probably unpleasant or inappropriate in some way so DS14 is defaulting to spending time with the younger one. He wondered if the comment was the SIL’s way of manipulating the kid’s relationships. 

He would also treat it as a threat towards both of your kids.

[Faith-manor]

6 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

What would be the mature thing to do in that situation?  A couple families are together.  One teenager, everyone else is either adult or younger kid. What would other people's kids do?

Well, I was always protective of my sons' reputations, and part and parcel of that was because my youngest niece - age gap between her and our sons - was a liar big time. She inherited her mother's narcissistic need to be the center of attention at all times, and she for sure made stuff up about folks to get attention which then fed my sil's drama. So our kids were not allowed to be around our two nieces without us, and believe me, even that was very, very limited. Our teens liked conversing with adults and stayed with the adults. The extended family dynamic was such that we didn't allow conversations to drift into anything inappropriate for our teens. If it did, we left. My brother and his wife have such a dysfunctional relationship that we weren't going to stay for the meltdown, and so many topics would set her off. It was fairly easy though because my mom loves to sew, cook, craft, etc and Dd loved all of those things. They were safe topics around SIL, and SIL was also an amazing artist so she usually had some work to show us and talk about, and we would talk about that as well. Of course it fed her narcissism, but on the other hand, my kids did also pick up some education in art and art history. My dad often wanted to watch sports, and while my kids are not into team sports at all, they didn't mind watching a football game or whatever with grandpa. Dh stayed in the room which annoyed my brother because he refused to go off and talk about other stuff. But, we weren't willing to leave them with my folks while the nieces were there.

And my sil absolutely did make similar comments to what your sil just made, and she eventually escalated to worse. She tried to imply absolute sh#t about all of my kids (told the youth pastor at a local church that Dd was pregnant - dd was 15 and not sexually active, told her daughters that all boys even uncle and grandpa are sex perverts and would rape them any chance they could get, so my dad stopped allowing the nieces to even come on the property, accused her step sons who did not live with them and were adult men in college or out of college and with jobs of drooling over their half sisters, and these were young men who at the time had not even visited their father for three years, had not laid eyes on their sisters in longer than that, and before she was done with her crazy, my nephews were awarded restraining orders against her). So I am not talking about hypotheticals. I know what it means to deal with an unstable personality, and have to protect my kids. None of my children as adults have chosen to have any contact with my brother, his wife, and their female cousins. They are good friends with their eldest male cousin who is 9 years older than our daughter, 18 years older than our youngest son.

The thing is, you have posted a lot about this sister in law, and in all of it, she is a selfish, unstable, green eyed jealous,  person. She sounds so much like my SIL. So I truly believe her behavior will escalate. She wasn't willing to have an actual conversation about what was bothering her, just this inappropriate one-off comment. That is my SIL's m.o. Drop the bomb, wait to see how it is received, and if no consequences, escalate.

Having close relationships with cousins sounds like a nice idea in theory. In reality, it is just a luxury and not a big deal if it doesn't happen. I do not believe for an instant she was making an innocent comment of "It is odd to me that cousins with such a big age and gender gap would enjoy each other's company because I would not have been that way as a child". I truly believe she meant it in the, " Maybe your son is a predator" kind of way.  She should not be in your house nor her kids, and when at the grandparent's home, your kids do not go if her kids are there unless you can be there to supervise it closely. Yes, that is sad for sure. It is not nearly as sad as what can happen as the fall out of worse comments/behavior on her part.

Circle the wagons. 

And from another perspective, you do have a responsibility as a parent to respect her with regards to her own daughter. If she thinks it is weird or inappropriate, it doesn't matter what you think or your ds thinks. That 7 year old minor is her domain. She gets to decide what is right for her kid even if you don't agree with it. So you need to take the hint, have a frank discussion with ds, and make a plan for him to have something to do during family get togethers that does not involve playing with his little cousin or leaving the room with her. You should tell sil that she cannot bring her children to your house unless she is staying. It is not appropriate for her to use you for babysitting/default parenting from this moment forward, and ds should not be a prisoner in his room in his own home because she wants you to watch and feed her kids which is a running theme with this woman. 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Faith-manor

[Lecka]

Some things are not your problem.

But you need to be able to set limits for your own kids.

I don’t think you need to provide a lot of explanation, just think what your limits are.

It won’t be a mystery it sounds like, as this comment has made the rounds.  
 

I do think it means the grandparents you live with need to check with you or actively follow your supervision rules and limits if they want to invite these kids.  They need to check with you that you are available, or they need to actively supervise.

I think some changes could make things more supervised without seeming so punitive.
 

For example, maybe grandparents could visit the cousins at their own home more often.

 

Maybe there could be more picnics or something where an adult can see what is going on but it’s still pretty private for the kids.

 

Maybe they can still play outside, just an adult needs to go out.

 

Maybe — though maybe this ship has sailed — but maybe you could make a rule about kids staying together more than how you do it now.  
 

Maybe sleepovers move to the living room floor instead of a bedroom.  
 

I would try to focus on how to still have a nice time within the limits.  
 

I feel like someone else pushed a button and now everyone else is along for the ride.  I think that means — stick to what you need for your family.  
 

 

[Faith-manor]

6 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

What would be the mature thing to do in that situation?  A couple families are together.  One teenager, everyone else is either adult or younger kid. What would other people's kids do?

My sons watched football with their grandfather, brought books to read, brought hand held video games to play, etc. We made sure they had a way to entertain themselves, and we did not exclude teens from adult conversations. I am not willing to attend "family" get togethers in which conversations among the adults turn into private matters, especially not with an adult woman in the family whose mind set and personality was so manipulative. 

[Lecka]

I think a lot is going to depend on the grandparents.  Are they going to be willing to make changes?

Because if they feel like it is an imposition and  it is “their house” and you are a “guest,” then it is their right to invite their other grandkids over to their own house.

I think you might need to think about moving if this doesn’t go well.  
 

It’s just not something you can put on your kids.  
 

On the other hand if it is more that you are doing them a favor, by living there, and you are helping them out, then they should be willing to make these changes.

Or maybe the nieces could have a “no bedrooms” rule when they visit.  
 

I don’t know what your outdoor situation is.  If they are going totally out of sight maybe just say the 7-year-old has to stay in sight.  She is 7, it’s pretty appropriate for her to have more rules than the older kids.  
 

Your son has to be equally important to the cousins without providing some service like babysitting.  He can’t just be some second-class citizen if he’s not babysitting.  And a 7-year-old can deal with staying in the living room and kitchen, or whatever.

Adults are allowed to set rules in their home, and guests need to follow those rules.  And explain those rules to their kids.  
 

And at the same time, if an adult wants to set a rule like that (like the mom for the 7-year-old) she needs to be able to and not feel like she will be undermined by everyone else.  
 

Edit:  and then maybe it’s the adults’ job, to some extent, to make sure there is some project or activity happening for this girl.  Maybe she can do a cooking project with somebody, or be set up with a craft project.

It will NOT be the old “send the kids to play” level of supervision, which is easier for adults.  
 

But I think everyone would get used to it, and maybe even like it more!

 

And maybe your son doesn’t need to be the default babysitter for this girl anymore, either.  
 

I think they can still have a wonderful, close relationship with more supervision.

 

And if not — it will be because of this mom and her sabotage.  And that might happen over time, it is out of your control.  You can control what you can control, and that is all.  But if things move on and you don’t see them as often, that’s something that might happen naturally anyway as kids go back to in-person school and things like that. 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Lecka

[Lecka]

I also wondered if there is an element of the 9 year old being mean to the 7 year old, and then your son wants to be nice to her because of that.  
 

I think that would need to be addressed by just — supervision and making the 9 year old do some activity with the 7 year old and monitor and correct the behavior.  
 

Or another adult spends more 1:1 time with the 7 year old.

There are a lot of options that could be good for everyone.  

[TravelingChris]

12 hours ago, itsheresomewhere said:

I have no idea what channel this was on but there was a show recently talking about being vigilant about family and abuse.  The woman on it was talking about the abuse she suffered from a cousin? I think and how no one question the older teen wanting to be around the young kid.  Maybe your SIL saw it and triggered something as it has sounded like she is suffering from some PPD in past posts. 

A male I know very well was abused as a 5 year old by a much older cousin and her slightly younger  son. 

If I was the parent of either children, I would be keeping clise watch.

As a child, i did play w older children at homes of my parent's friends when my parents'  took us on visits.  And I  do understand that if something like Legos sre only in that room, they would be plsying in that room.  But I do thinl the situation needs very close monitoring.

[ktgrok]

My 9 yr old niece adores my 22 yr old son. When we get together he fishes with her on the back dock, or whatever, and if she has her choice of who to sit by, or be babysat by, it is him. I was the same way with an older cousin at that age. It isn't weird. It is normal and healthy and good for kids to have older kids they look up to. It is normal and healthy and admirable for a young man like your son to spend time mentoring and being involved in younger family member's lives. Yes, some bad things happen, but that doesn't make the actual dynamic weird. It means sometimes bad things happen. 

I mean, some fathers abuse their daughters. Proabably a lot of fathers. That does not make a father caring for his daughter weird! And it isn't weird for your son to be nice to his cousin. 

I mean, if your son liked hanging out with his much younger cousin more than say, hanging out with friends, and was begging to have her over, maybe that would be weird. But if it is more that she has a bit of hero worship going on with him, and he enjoys that a bit and it feeds his need for appreciation and makes him feel proud and good, that is NORMAL. 

Heck, when my dd11 was about 5, her big brother was 15, and all his female friends doted on her. We'd go to park get togethers and at least one of his friends would spend most of the time playing with DD, pushing her on the swings, teaching her stuff, etc etc. No one thought it was weird at all - lots of comments were made about how that is a VERY common dynamic at that age. They are sort of "playing house" but with a real kid instead of a doll. So if is normal to the point of being practically a cliche when a girl does it, why would it be creepy for a boy to do it? What if it was a 7 yr old boy, who wanted to learn skateboard tricks and such from your son - would that be creepy? Of course not. 

Now, again, that doesn't mean bad things can't happen, they do. And I'm not saying supervision isn't a good idea - it is, given the comment made by SIL. But I think even just insisting they stay in public - like teaching her to skateboard on the sidewalk out front of the house, vs on a back patio that no one can see, should be fine. 

And I'd make some comments about how NORMAL and HEALTHY it is for kids to mentor each other like this, or have a bit of hero worship at your nieces age, etc. It is good for your son's ego to have that, and if we didn't live in such a weirdly age segregated society we'd see a lot more of it. 

[Faith-manor]

2 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

My 9 yr old niece adores my 22 yr old son. When we get together he fishes with her on the back dock, or whatever, and if she has her choice of who to sit by, or be babysat by, it is him. I was the same way with an older cousin at that age. It isn't weird. It is normal and healthy and good for kids to have older kids they look up to. It is normal and healthy and admirable for a young man like your son to spend time mentoring and being involved in younger family member's lives. Yes, some bad things happen, but that doesn't make the actual dynamic weird. It means sometimes bad things happen. 

I mean, some fathers abuse their daughters. Proabably a lot of fathers. That does not make a father caring for his daughter weird! And it isn't weird for your son to be nice to his cousin. 

I mean, if your son liked hanging out with his much younger cousin more than say, hanging out with friends, and was begging to have her over, maybe that would be weird. But if it is more that she has a bit of hero worship going on with him, and he enjoys that a bit and it feeds his need for appreciation and makes him feel proud and good, that is NORMAL. 

Heck, when my dd11 was about 5, her big brother was 15, and all his female friends doted on her. We'd go to park get togethers and at least one of his friends would spend most of the time playing with DD, pushing her on the swings, teaching her stuff, etc etc. No one thought it was weird at all - lots of comments were made about how that is a VERY common dynamic at that age. They are sort of "playing house" but with a real kid instead of a doll. So if is normal to the point of being practically a cliche when a girl does it, why would it be creepy for a boy to do it? What if it was a 7 yr old boy, who wanted to learn skateboard tricks and such from your son - would that be creepy? Of course not. 

Now, again, that doesn't mean bad things can't happen, they do. And I'm not saying supervision isn't a good idea - it is, given the comment made by SIL. But I think even just insisting they stay in public - like teaching her to skateboard on the sidewalk out front of the house, vs on a back patio that no one can see, should be fine. 

And I'd make some comments about how NORMAL and HEALTHY it is for kids to mentor each other like this, or have a bit of hero worship at your nieces age, etc. It is good for your son's ego to have that, and if we didn't live in such a weirdly age segregated society we'd see a lot more of it. 

And normally I would agree with you. Unfortunately, in this case I can't because this is the SIL who has been the topic of many threads due to her major personality problems. She is a real piece of work so the fact that the comment came from her is a red flag for Baseball and her son. This woman is extremely problematic.

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Faith-manor said:

And normally I would agree with you. Unfortunately, in this case I can't because this is the SIL who has been the topic of many threads due to her major personality problems. She is a real piece of work so the fact that the comment came from her is a red flag for Baseball and her son. This woman is extremely problematic.

Oh, I agree that supervision needs to happen due to SIL being..well, troublesom. But the relationship in general shouldn't be seen as creepy. 

[Faith-manor]

5 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Oh, I agree that supervision needs to happen due to SIL being..well, troublesom. But the relationship in general shouldn't be seen as creepy. 

Right. The issue is the little cousin is unfortunately the daughter of a not very good person. Stinks for the kids, but can't be helped. My own sister in law could have a horror movie made about her. Hollywood would not need to exaggerate a darn thing to make it a blockbuster. So it definitely affected our decisions about her and her kids being around our kids. Frustrating for sure! And as the mom of three upstanding male sons, it is very upsetting to live in a culture that pretty much views all males suspiciously after the age of 8 or 9. However, it is not possible to change that viewpoint in other people's minds. We can only protect our sons from the fall out of people like this sister in law. Blech. Extended family is often just so problematic!

[KungFuPanda]

16 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

DS14 likes to spend time with his 7 year old girl cousin.  He likes all his cousins, but he particularly likes teaching her to do things like hit a ball or a ride a bike or do a flip turn, and they spend a lot of time together when the families are together.

We invited their family over tomorrow but her parents and 11 year old sister might not make it due to a sports commitment for the 11 year old.  Their grandfather offered to pick up the 7 and 9 year old and bring them over, making a comment about how he knows DS14 and DN7 would probably love that.  My SIL then asked “Does anyone think the DS14 DN7 thing is a little weird?”

How would you read that comment?  

As malicious. If she were truly concerned, she wouldn’t keep allowing you to watch her children in her absence. I know it’s her father’s house, but that makes zero difference. 
 

The impression I get from your posts is that she’s jealous that you are seen as another daughter in that family and that your kids get attention from grandparents. It sounds like she just figured out how to insult your son AND get you to watch two of her kids. SHE’S the weird one. 

[Xahm]

I think I would, if it were my son, talk to him about protecting himself by not being completely alone with a young child. One-on-one stuff should be done in a place where you would expect people to be coming and going, like a living room, kitchen, front yard, etc. Anything that is in a more private location should have a third party. Unless he knows what his aunt is saying, I wouldn't bring that part up. Our church goes through this with the teens who volunteer with kids. When with other teens at church events they are to follow the "rule of three" for physical safety and to protect reputation, and when younger kids are involved rules are stricter and more important. I would just bring it up with my kid that he's the age now for this to be important. Due to the pandemic he hasn't had much opportunity to learn/practice this, but he should be thinking about it when decide what to do and where to be when hanging out with little cousins. 

I have had a teen boy babysit my kids ages 4-8. I talked with them beforehand about how they should be staying as a group, which is kind of obvious because how else could he watch them all. I also made sure the 4year old had on pants he could handle himself because I wouldn't want to put a first time babysitter in a really awkward position, and the boy's mom was just down the street if he needed her. They had a blast and want him to babysit again, but we hardly go out these days and so haven't yet.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Xahm
Typos, clarity

[readinmom]

Once the comment is out there there's no backtracking on what she said.   It's sad that this will change the innocent nature of your son's relationship with his cousin. but you are now in the position of protecting your son and his future.  Comments like hers will hang like a cloud whether you want them to or not.  If they are going to spend time together, make sure it is in a supervised manner.  If sil is vindictive enough, things could go badly for your ds in an attempt to hurt you.  

[Katy]

Ultimately either SIL will get what she wants and FIL will spend less time with OP or it will backfire and everyone will spend less time with SIL & her kids.

[Dianthus]

8 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

What would be the mature thing to do in that situation?  A couple families are together.  One teenager, everyone else is either adult or younger kid. What would other people's kids do?

You know this woman better than we do, but she could be saying your son is immature in playing with a young kid. Maybe she expects that at his age, he should just brood in a corner with his phone. Typical teenage behavior? No idea. I'm just saying maybe she's not alluding to actual impropriety. But I would discuss to clear the air. I wouldn't put my ds14 in a situation where he be accused or my dd7 in a situation that she could be compromised. Accountability is always best.

[Drama Llama]

17 minutes ago, Katy said:

Ultimately either SIL will get what she wants and FIL will spend less time with OP or it will backfire and everyone will spend less time with SIL & her kids.

That is the irony here.  I do think there is this weird jealousy dynamic, but this isn’t going to win people to her side.  

I think the underlying issue here is that her oldest, who is 11, wants my boys to spend the whole time with her, and doesn’t want her little sister competing for attention, and her mom wants her to have her way.  But sadly the kid who is probably going to be hurt by this the most is my 11 year old niece.  Because I am not willing to make a rule that says my oldest can’t play with the 7 year old unsupervised.  I will say my kids don’t play with her kids unsupervised.  And while that’s not going to be a big change for the 14/7 combo, it’s going to be a huge change for the 14/11/11 combo who are used to spending hours outside playing basketball or slipping off to the basement for video games.  

And that makes me sad because I think my kids are her closest friends.  But I don’t see another way to respond.

[JennyD]

24 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I think the underlying issue here is that her oldest, who is 11, wants my boys to spend the whole time with her, and doesn’t want her little sister competing for attention, and her mom wants her to have her way.

Oh this sheds a LOT of light on the situation.  

25 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

Because I am not willing to make a rule that says my oldest can’t play with the 7 year old unsupervised.  I will say my kids don’t play with her kids unsupervised.  

That sounds like an extremely sensible response.    Good luck navigating this frustrating situation, ugh.  

[Faith-manor]

21 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

That is the irony here.  I do think there is this weird jealousy dynamic, but this isn’t going to win people to her side.  

I think the underlying issue here is that her oldest, who is 11, wants my boys to spend the whole time with her, and doesn’t want her little sister competing for attention, and her mom wants her to have her way.  But sadly the kid who is probably going to be hurt by this the most is my 11 year old niece.  Because I am not willing to make a rule that says my oldest can’t play with the 7 year old unsupervised.  I will say my kids don’t play with her kids unsupervised.  And while that’s not going to be a big change for the 14/7 combo, it’s going to be a huge change for the 14/11/11 combo who are used to spending hours outside playing basketball or slipping off to the basement for video games.  

And that makes me sad because I think my kids are her closest friends.  But I don’t see another way to respond.

Sadly, you are right. There is no other way to respond. You have to protect your son so saying they can't play unsupervised is the right thing. If what you surmise is true, she and her 11 year old are the losers. But, I would advise you to take it a step farther and say that you can no longer babysit her kids. It is unreasonable. It makes you a prisoner in your own home because you can't get anything else done while they are there because you can't be in the room supervising every second. This is what we did with my nasty sister in law. Our kids did not ever go to her house, and her kids did not ever come to mine. She always wanted me to babysit. However, I pulled the plug because I was not going to allow her to cast a shadow over our home, and turn me into knots trying to keep everybody safe, and her happy. So they only met at the grandparents, and never without dh or I there because I knew mom and dad were not up to the task. 

[annandatje]

I would not allow your son and the younger cousin to spend time together unsupervised although I truly believe it is a sweet innocent gesture for him to befriend his younger cousin.  However, your sister has slyly let you know that she has a weapon loaded and ready: false criminal allegations.  Initially at least, I would be the only supervisor with thought that eventually supervision may be extended to your parents depending upon nature of their relationship with sister.

[catz]

I'm glad at least her sister called her on it.  I think your new boundaries are smart.  Especially given the additional info about the 11 year old.  

[Spryte]

I think your plan is reasonable.

You don’t want to know what I think of your SIL at this point, though! Wow, she’s a pain in the neck. I would be overjoyed to have your family as part of ours, and to have all the support and love you’ve offered! I can’t relate to her at all. And then to add comments like that on top? ☹️

I would change the standard operating procedure and have them all play supervised from now on. And I can see how that could create problems and issues. Maybe you can rearrange parts of your life (I know it’s inconvenient) to make the supervision a bit easier. Put the game system on a TV in view, etc. (Sigh)

FWIW, my 17 yr old is excellent with younger kids, and has always been a bit of a pied piper figure to the neighborhood kids — from the moment we moved in, he could not step outside without a herd of kids following him (older, his age, and all the younger kids, too). He is just a fun guy, and it’s innocent. And one of the “benefits” I always heard about homeschooling is that kids get comfortable hanging out with all age groups, not just their age mates. So we all just viewed it as a perk and an expected benefit of homeschooling, that he is kind and gets along with everyone, of every age. If someone had made a comment like that, I’d have made sure there were no more opportunities for that kind of comment, and frankly, it would have been the other kids missing out. I’m sharing that so you know that I don’t think there’s anything weird or nefarious about a kid hanging out with his cousin. I really don’t. I think this is punishing your kid and his cousin for SIL’s weird issues, frankly, but it seems like there’s no way around it.

I’m so sorry. It seems so sad and unnecessary, all of this weirdness, after all the support that SIL has received from everyone in her family. Honestly, coming from someone who does not have much family support, and has gone it alone when things were tough, I have marveled at the work and extras that you’ve done for your SIL. I can’t imagine anyone feeling unsupported or jealous in the midst of that kind of unconditional caring!

 

[Lecka]

I think just speaks to how bizarre it is.

If someone didn’t want their child to participate, most people would just make that happen.  

If someone saw some kind of red flag, most people would proceed in a different way.

 But to just make a comment like this, in this context, is just bizarre!

To me the red flag here is this woman’s comment!

[Grace Hopper]

I’m thinking your SIL is going to regret that she just lost her babysitter. 
 

(and oh yeah, her insinuations are gross, protect your son)

Edited January 23, 2022 by Grace Hopper

[Lecka]

I have had a random parent try to control my behavior at a public playground one time, and it was bizarre.  I did take my kids to another part of the playground and tell them not to play with that woman’s child anymore.  Which — somehow didn’t seem like what she expected, because her son still wanted to play with my kids.

But if this was in my own neighborhood I don’t think I would change my behavior or my kids’ behavior over one random parent, if I thought that parent was in the wrong.

If someone made a flip comment while their own child continued to be allowed to play with my child — bizarre.  I think I would make my kids not play with that kid out of sight.  
 

Edit:  I was friends with someone whose neighbor kids were just rough and she put her kids in a YMCA program, problem solved.  But in general I think I would not change over one parent.  But it would depend I guess.  

Edited January 23, 2022 by Lecka

[katilac]

4 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

She should not be in your house nor her kids, and when at the grandparent's home, your kids do not go if her kids are there unless you can be there to supervise it closely.  

It is the same house. 

3 hours ago, ktgrok said:

 female friends doted on her. We'd go to park get togethers and at least one of his friends would spend most of the time playing with DD, pushing her on the swings, teaching her stuff, etc etc. No one thought it was weird at all -  

I think one additional difference is that it sounds like your dd was the only little around in a group of teens the same age, versus this situation of a group of kids ranging in age, with one little getting the focus. That doesn't make it wrong, but it does make it different. 

1 hour ago, Baseballandhockey said:

And while that’s not going to be a big change for the 14/7 combo, it’s going to be a huge change for the 14/11/11 combo who are used to spending hours outside playing basketball or slipping off to the basement for video games.  

And that makes me sad because I think my kids are her closest friends.  But I don’t see another way to respond.

I actually think it's a good idea anyway to not have tweens/teens unsupervised for hours; an adult should be in and out on the regular. And if you want it to be constant supervision, that certainly has merit in this case.  

[Faith-manor]

2 minutes ago, katilac said:

It is the same house. 

 

Does OP own the home, and the grandparent lives with her? Than if yes, sorry grandparent, but those kids are not over unless I feel like putting my life on hold to directly supervise the whole thing. If sil doesn't like it, she can take the grandparent to her house for visits.

If the OP doesn't own the home, grandparent does and makes the house rules, I would be making haste to find new living arrangements. This sil has been a loose cannon, and always taking advantage of Baseball, just unacceptable levels of expectations on her. So I would really do everything possible to limit sil and kids being there or find new living arrangements. I truly expect that sil will just continue the attack, making life more and more miserable. A lot of what OP posts about this woman follows the exact same trajectory of my own sister in law whom we know rarely ever speak to much less see. Our kids have not laid eyes on her in many years and that is a good thing.

[Kanin]

13 hours ago, sassenach said:

The thing that sucks about this is that teen boys are treated differently than teen girls. Unfortunately, there's a legit reason for this, but that doesn't mean it doesn't sting. I'm 8 years older than my first set of cousins and 11 years older than my favorite cousin (who is a boy). We even slept in the same bed at my grandparent's house. I doted on my cousins and delighted in teaching them things. I can absolutely see that as an innocent and ok thing. Sadly, me being a girl makes the whole thing less suspicious, which is a shame because I see it as really sweet.

 

I feel the same. It's very sweet. Maybe your SIL was saying she thinks your son is immature for wanting to play with a 7 year old? In that case, that's snarky and passive aggressive, and rude!

[Harriet Vane]

I think the plan to have all kids supervised all the time is a good one. IT will be hard over the long run--people will say things like, "I think enough time has passed..."

But as another poster said, once a comment like this is made, there's no walking back from it. This is a danger--a big one--for your son.

One further comment--a couple people have suggested not telling your son what was said. I say exactly the opposite. Tell him exactly what was said. It does not have to be an angry or malicious conversation. Just be honest about the world we live in and about what was said and why. No crap about "respecting elders" on something like this, because it's just too risky for your teen. He cannot think of this woman as safe or appropriate or trustworthy, because she is not.

Do not teach your children to love a dragon--they will only get burned.

[Drama Llama]

20 minutes ago, katilac said:

It is the same house. 

I think one additional difference is that it sounds like your dd was the only little around in a group of teens the same age, versus this situation of a group of kids ranging in age, with one little getting the focus. That doesn't make it wrong, but it does make it different. 

I actually think it's a good idea anyway to not have tweens/teens unsupervised for hours; an adult should be in and out on the regular. And if you want it to be constant supervision, that certainly has merit in this case.  

They are never alone for the whole time, they play in the driveway in sight of the house, and people are in and out etc  . . . but there have definitely been periods of time when no one is by the kitchen window or in the yard or whatever.   In normal situation, I don’t think a group of 11-14 year old cousins playing basketball in the backyard needs continual supervision. But I think we are no longer in that situation.