Help Me Figure Out How to Handle this Situation

[fairfarmhand]

Thank you for all of your input!

Edited November 20, 2021 by fairfarmhand

[Katy]

You know what you have to do.  You have to tell the parent that you aren't able to provide one on one attention in this class as is stated in the course materials.  You aren't sure what the special needs are, but she is not capable of this class at this time. 

[Rosie_0801]

What Katy said.

There's nothing empowering about a class so far above one's ability level, so it's not in kiddo's best interest to be taking it either.

[fairfarmhand]

10 minutes ago, Katy said:

You know what you have to do.  You have to tell the parent that you aren't able to provide one on one attention in this class as is stated in the course materials.  You aren't sure what the special needs are, but she is not capable of this class at this time. 

It feels so crappy! Dang it.

[Ottakee]

This is why I stopped homeschooling my kids with special needs in 7th grade.  They could do well with the k-6th grade stuff but I knew they would never be able to handle the jump to 7-12tu grade homeschool group.

I will admit it was hard and I likely shed some tears of grief, but I knew it wasn't far to my kids, the teachers, or the other kids.

[fairfarmhand]

1 minute ago, Ottakee said:

This is why I stopped homeschooling my kids with special needs in 7th grade.  They could do well with the k-6th grade stuff but I knew they would never be able to handle the jump to 7-12tu grade homeschool group.

I will admit it was hard and I likely shed some tears of grief, but I knew it wasn't far to my kids, the teachers, or the other kids.

You don’t think I’m being mean? Because it feels that way.

[Katy]

1 minute ago, fairfarmhand said:

You don’t think I’m being mean? Because it feels that way.

No, the parent pushing the child into a class she isn't capable of is being mean.  Child either has unaddressed special needs or she's being educationally neglected.  Neither are your fault.

[fairfarmhand]

14 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

What Katy said.

There's nothing empowering about a class so far above one's ability level, so it's not in kiddo's best interest to be taking it either.

Frustrating thing is that the kid seems oblivious to how over their head they are. Student kept asking for other assignments that were bigger pieces of the final project, even after the assignments were given. They have no clue that they couldn’t do it and that their limitations affect the other students.

 

eta: I guess I’m glad the student doesn’t feel like a misfit for hours each week, but the idea that student can’t do well in this situation may be a shock to parent and student. Which bugs me.

Edited November 20, 2021 by fairfarmhand

[Frances]

Has the parent been to class to see what the problems are? Would you be ok with the student staying in the class if the parent were present to provide the extra help rather than it falling to others to do so?

[KungFuPanda]

As the mother of a special needs student, I would expect to be a back-up co-teacher on the days the regular co-teacher is out and to work with my student so that he gets the most out of class and keeps up with the material.  Someone should be a back-up co-teacher because yours is unreliable.  It's just a good idea to have a second adult in the classroom.  I would also stay in the classroom if it helped or remove my student if there was no way to make the situation workable.  

As an educator, I would try to find a way to include the student.  If they get something out of the class, it is valuable to them and it doesn't have to be the same thing the other kids get out of the class.  If you can minimize the impact, even without eliminating it, everyone can learn from the experience.  It will also help you as a teacher.  There's ALWAYS a one-off to deal with in teaching.  Every class has a most difficult student to contend with.  It's just part of the gig; even if it's a volunteer gig.

[fairfarmhand]

2 minutes ago, Frances said:

Has the parent been to class to see what the problems are? Would you be ok with the student staying in the class if the parent were present to provide the extra help rather than it falling to others to do so?

I’ve thought of this. I’m not sure.
 

i wonder if I’ll just be kicking the can down the road and dealing with another semester of struggle. Because mom doesn’t seem to get it that it’s going to take more than “he should try harder to concentrate.” 
 

the way the project works is that parts are assigned first or second class so it’s not like he can drop out after several weeks.

[fairfarmhand]

2 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

As the mother of a special needs student, I would expect to be a back-up co-teacher on the days the regular co-teacher is out and to work with my student so that he gets the most out of class and keeps up with the material.  Someone should be a back-up co-teacher because yours is unreliable.  It's just a good idea to have a second adult in the classroom.  I would also stay in the classroom if it helped or remove my student if there was no way to make the situation workable.  

As an educator, I would try to find a way to include the student.  If they get something out of the class, it is valuable to them and it doesn't have to be the same thing the other kids get out of the class.  If you can minimize the impact, even without eliminating it, everyone can learn from the experience.  It will also help you as a teacher.  There's ALWAYS a one-off to deal with in teaching.  Every class has a most difficult student to contend with.  It's just part of the gig; even if it's a volunteer gig.

Oh yes I know this. I’ve done this class for 10 years and this is the first time I’ve had this level of a problemZ

[Not_a_Number]

Don't feel mean. Tell them kindly that this class isn't working and the student isn't getting much out of it. 

I wouldn't even be that specific -- just say it's not a great fit and you saw that the student was having a hard time focusing and wasn't enjoying himself. If they want to know more about what's going on, they will, but it sounds like they are willfully burying their head in the sand and won't welcome input. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

The parent’s reply saying to let her know if you figure out what to do with the student says to me that she’s aware of the problem but doesn’t know how to address it. 

[goldberry]

It sounds like you were honest in your class materials about not being able to provide one on one support.  It also sounds like you have had special needs kids before and been able to work with them and help them participate, but this kid may be beyond what you can offer.  I don't think that's mean.  I think it's being realistic about what you can provide and still give the kids an enjoyable experience.  You are not a public school that is expected and legally required to meet the needs of all children. You are being honest about what you are able to provide, which is an optional service.

[SoCal_Bear]

Another possible option would be to say that you and the co-teacher are unable to provide the level of support the student needs. If she would like to continue on in the class, the parent would need to attend with the student to give the support that is needed if they would like to continue on in the class. That's only if you want this student to continue.

[Innisfree]

"If you figure something out, let me know" suggests the parent is open to and desirous of help. I think the best help you can offer is to show the parent exactly what's happening, with comparative samples of other students' work, or by having her sit in class and observe. Then suggest educational psych and/or neuropsych evaluations.

[Deleted some info]

Speaking clearly about the student's needs isn't mean. It's the kindest thing you can possibly do.

Edited November 20, 2021 by Innisfree

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

Speaking clearly about the student's needs isn't mean. It's the kindest thing you can possibly do.

I absolutely believe that it would have been very helpful to you, but there are MANY parents out there who are in total denial and who can make your life unpleasant if you make things too clear. So I hesitate to suggest people being blunt. Starting the conversation and seeing how receptive someone is, yes... but just saying it outright? I dunno. I'd need to do a lot of gauging of emotional temperature before I were willing to do that. 

[Farrar]

I also had a thread about a difficult co-op student and a parent who seemed clueless yesterday. Tis the season for feeling cruddy about an inability to serve the kids in our classes, I guess.

I agree with everyone else that you have to ask the family to take the student out of the class. You're not serving her. Sigh. But I say that having allowed my own difficult kid to return to my class. Though... he's not a disruption (much) and is happy to be there so those are key differences.

[Innisfree]

5 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I absolutely believe that it would have been very helpful to you, but there are MANY parents out there who are in total denial and who can make your life unpleasant if you make things too clear. So I hesitate to suggest people being blunt. Starting the conversation and seeing how receptive someone is, yes... but just saying it outright? I dunno. I'd need to do a lot of gauging of emotional temperature before I were willing to do that. 

Well... I see your point. I guess it's a matter of gauging the situation and deciding your own priorities.

It wouldn't have occurred to me that a teacher would have a strong suspicion about serious issues and *not* tell me.

Edited November 20, 2021 by Innisfree

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Innisfree said:

Well... I see your point. I guess it's a matter of gauging the situation and deciding your own priorities.

It wouldn't have occurred to me that a teacher would have a strong suspicion about serious issues and *not* tell me. I would have taken silence, or anything less than clear concern, as an endorsement of dh's perspective that nothing was seriously amiss.

I come at this from the teacher's perspective, I guess -- in my experience, your receptiveness to the information puts you in a fairly small minority. I know it's unfortunate, but that tends to mean that teachers won't level with parents who don't ask outright. 

[Innisfree]

8 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I come at this from the teacher's perspective, I guess -- in my experience, your receptiveness to the information puts you in a fairly small minority. I know it's unfortunate, but that tends to mean that teachers won't level with parents who don't ask outright. 

If parents are making teachers' lives uncomfortable because of getting this information, that is indeed unfortunate, both for the teachers and for the students who need help. I'm sorry you've had that experience.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

10 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

You don’t think I’m being mean? Because it feels that way.

No, it’s unfair to the child but because of the parent, not you. It’s not fair to push a child into a group they won’t be able to participate in(even if you’re hopeful they will) and it wasn’t fair not to talk to you ahead of time.

I suppose if it’s reasonable, you could ask the parent if they’re willing to supply their own 1:1 person to work with the child.

[Not_a_Number]

20 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

If parents are making teachers' lives uncomfortable because of getting this information, that is indeed unfortunate, both for the teachers and for the students who need help. I'm sorry you've had that experience.

I haven't pushed so hard that I got a lot of pushback, but I generally stop if people seem very uncomfortable or unwilling to listen. There have definitely been cases where it was clear pushing further was going to go badly, though. 

(This is mostly in the context of homeschool teaching. I haven't taught at schools professionally, only at colleges, where that doesn't come up.) 

[catz]

One thing you could offer that I’ve seen done at our co op is say he can do it if the parent will stay to be his aide if you are open to that.  If that would be a huge distraction it is ok to have limits too.  Homeschooling co ops and classes are rarely one size fits all and I think it’s fine to diplomatically let the parent know it wasn’t a good fit.

[Starr]

You've had students with different capabilities before. This situation, given the type of class, sounds unworkable. Since dropping out midway throws everyone's project off you don't have much flexibility. I think I would take the advice offered by those who have have taught classes and have experience with this. Separately from this issue I would  get back up for your second adult. I'm sorry it's so difficult.

[Bambam]

10 hours ago, calbear said:

Another possible option would be to say that you and the co-teacher are unable to provide the level of support the student needs. If she would like to continue on in the class, the parent would need to attend with the student to give the support that is needed if they would like to continue on in the class. That's only if you want this student to continue.

This is the solution I would suggest -if it works for you and the class. 

This is the reason I stopped any co-ops. I have sympathy, but when my kid is not getting anything from the class because the continual needs of one student is way out of line with all the other students, I'm not interested in wasting our time/money/effort - which is what it turned out to be. 

[kbutton]

11 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

The parent’s reply saying to let her know if you figure out what to do with the student says to me that she’s aware of the problem but doesn’t know how to address it. 

This is my first reaction also.

I wonder if you could go back to her with these words and say something like, "I don't have suggestions for how to address your child's issues, but I do think they are persistent enough that you need some kind of evaluation..." and then offer support/resources, and reiterate that if she goes that route, you'd be willing to fill out teacher observations (if you are willing). Having another adult willing to pinpoint what difficulties are there without just going all "It's behavior" is a kindness. Many times, the behavior is there because the other problem is there.

For some reason, this also screams either auditory processing disorder or an intellectual disability (and it can always be both). I am not sure how to pinpoint or highlight what strikes me as APD, and you don't want people to quote anyway. But some kids who have severe presentations can really come across in negative ways. 

1 hour ago, Innisfree said:

"If you figure something out, let me know" suggests the parent is open to and desirous of help. I think the best help you can offer is to show the parent exactly what's happening, with comparative samples of other students' work, or by having her sit in class and observe. Then suggest educational psych and/or neuropsych evaluations.

Speaking clearly about the student's needs isn't mean. It's the kindest thing you can possibly do.

I agree. It's not guaranteed to go well, but it's far more helpful than being vague about why the class doesn't fit. How the other parent responds is not in her control.

I really do think that the parent's response could be a statement of openness. 

It's also possible to say what you observe and offer specific suggestions about an evaluation (especially if you have an evaluator, but if not, use the appropriate words like educational or neuropsychologist) in a way that is supportive and is far less confrontational than, "I think your kid has ADHD" or whatever. It's also important to affirm that you don't blame the mom for the state of affairs--it's hard to find help, and in some circles, saying your kid has issues opens you up to scrutiny. This mom doesn't sound cut and dry in denial to me at all. That doesn't mean she's open, but it's reasonable to think she could be. 

I have had some moms that don't even respond to me disclosing that I have seen some of the same issues in my kids and that we needed xyz to sort it out and others that have sought me out. This doesn't sound like straight denial. In one case, I had a mom tell me that her child didn't need assessment because he wasn't low IQ after I told her that my gifted kids needed evaluations. I think she must have some alternate idea of what I meant by gifted, such as, "all kids have gifts." I was very clear I was talking about high IQ kids, and this happened more than once, so I just tried to avoid all talk because she'd take some things as affirming her ridiculousness--she just refuses to actually accept people's words as what they mean vs. what she wants to hear. Other homeschoolers with similar biases were able to prop her up with legit (though probably not thorough enough) help, but I don't know how. She was always on transmit and never on receive, so to speak. I hope her kid is doing fine, but I am not in the same circles anymore. 

[TechWife]

1 hour ago, FuzzyCatz said:

One thing you could offer that I’ve seen done at our co op is say he can do it if the parent will stay to be his aide if you are open to that.  If that would be a huge distraction it is ok to have limits too.  Homeschooling co ops and classes are rarely one size fits all and I think it’s fine to diplomatically let the parent know it wasn’t a good fit.

I like this idea if you can make it work. As a parent of a kid that has great difficulty in class settings, this would have thrilled me. It’s honest and offers a solution that allows the student to participate. Also, as a parent, I may or may not have taken you up on the offer. Circumstances may have dictated the best option for everyone at that point would be to withdraw. 
It sounds as if you have done the best you know how to do. Classrooms are a such a balancing act. Parents are often beyond their own ability to offer any suggestions through no fault of their own. In those cases, the child needs a brick & mortar school IMO. I greatly regret not sending ds to school. 

[gardenmom5]

It sounds like the child has ASD or ADD (or both).  - and I can relate to a parent who is clueless, as I've been clueless. (I have three diagnosed ASD/ADD kids. One is . . . a whole other level. (and likely belongs to a small subset type of ASD that is not recognized in the US, but is in the UK - and they don't know what to do for this.)  Multiple professionals from whom I have sought advice and help - have been clueless. One even refused to take him as a patient after doing an eval.)  I have tried numerous things to help him without success. So not for want of trying to figure something out.

 

I would be upfront with the parent that the child needs a one-on-one situation (or a personal aid, which you are not in a position to provide) to help them be successful, and you are unable to provide that for them.

[fairfarmhand]

55 minutes ago, kbutton said:

This is my first reaction also.

I wonder if you could go back to her with these words and say something like, "I don't have suggestions for how to address your child's issues, but I do think they are persistent enough that you need some kind of evaluation..." and then offer support/resources, and reiterate that if she goes that route, you'd be willing to fill out teacher observations (if you are willing). Having another adult willing to pinpoint what difficulties are there without just going all "It's behavior" is a kindness. Many times, the behavior is there because the other problem is there.

I agree. It's not guaranteed to go well, but it's far more helpful than being vague about why the class doesn't fit. How the other parent responds is not in her control.

I

 

Thank you for this.

I have no background with special needs other than having had a handful of kids in my class with some needs. I don't have a clue what this kid needs, all I can say is the class is a poor fit. 

I do plan on being very specific with mom about the places where child is unable to work in the group like the other kids. If mom is in denial, maybe having someone spell out the specific areas where student is struggling might be helpful. Perhaps if she sees how the student being limited by whatever is going on she'll push for  getting some help. If the family is already getting help, maybe having some additional data points to share with providers will help.

The thing is that this is not about attitude. The student wants to be there. The student is trying. I can see that. Sometimes "Try harder" isn't enough. And the child has no idea that they're not handling the challenges of the class in the same way that the others are. 

 

[Harriet Vane]

20 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

Thank you for this.

I have no background with special needs other than having had a handful of kids in my class with some needs. I don't have a clue what this kid needs, all I can say is the class is a poor fit. 

I do plan on being very specific with mom about the places where child is unable to work in the group like the other kids. If mom is in denial, maybe having someone spell out the specific areas where student is struggling might be helpful. Perhaps if she sees how the student being limited by whatever is going on she'll push for  getting some help. If the family is already getting help, maybe having some additional data points to share with providers will help.

The thing is that this is not about attitude. The student wants to be there. The student is trying. I can see that. Sometimes "Try harder" isn't enough. And the child has no idea that they're not handling the challenges of the class in the same way that the others are. 

 

Good plan.

A word of warning--mom might think she just needs to tell her kid don't-do-this or don't-do-that and the problem is taken care of. BTDT. Just something to keep in mind as you interact with mom.

[fairfarmhand]

5 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

Good plan.

A word of warning--mom might think she just needs to tell her kid don't-do-this or don't-do-that and the problem is taken care of. BTDT. Just something to keep in mind as you interact with mom.

That's a good point. I do feel that by giving him a semester, I gave it a shot. It just didn't work. The class can be a bit of organized chaos. (lots of interesting things going on all at the same time.) So I can see how a child with some sort of learning challenges would not be able to handle it.

[Not_a_Number]

So what are you planning to try? (And can you update us on how it goes? I'm always curious about how people's advice worked!) 

[fairfarmhand]

6 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

So what are you planning to try? (And can you update us on how it goes? I'm always curious about how people's advice worked!) 

I'm thinking it over. I will update if I remember. I'm letting parents get through Thanksgiving before I bring this up to them. I plan on a phone call, because email is just not great for these situations. 

I will probably list out the issues and see how it goes.

I am trying to figure out whether I give parent the option of sitting in on the class. What if the parent sits in the back of the class on the phone the whole time? That would kind of defeat the purpose.

How specific do I need to get in how the parent should support the child? The fact that the parent sent the kid into this situation without mentioning anything, makes me wonder what the expectation was for us as teachers.

What do I do if the parent doesn't follow through? 

Those kinds of things make me just want to not even open the door to that situation. Because what if parent starts out helping the student and then stops. Then we're right back to where we were this semester. The student will have been assigned portions of the final project and still need one on one support to complete it. 

 

[Danae]

8 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

I'm thinking it over. I will update if I remember. I'm letting parents get through Thanksgiving before I bring this up to them. I plan on a phone call, because email is just not great for these situations. 

I will probably list out the issues and see how it goes.

I am trying to figure out whether I give parent the option of sitting in on the class. What if the parent sits in the back of the class on the phone the whole time? That would kind of defeat the purpose.

How specific do I need to get in how the parent should support the child? The fact that the parent sent the kid into this situation without mentioning anything, makes me wonder what the expectation was for us as teachers.

What do I do if the parent doesn't follow through? 

Those kinds of things make me just want to not even open the door to that situation. Because what if parent starts out helping the student and then stops. Then we're right back to where we were this semester. The student will have been assigned portions of the final project and still need one on one support to complete it. 

 

I would not phrase it as the parent “sitting in on” the class. You need to say specifically “your child needs a one-on-one adult helper for this class.  The assistant teacher and I can’t do that, so if he’s going to participate you will need to be his helper.”

[fairfarmhand]

1 minute ago, Danae said:

I would not phrase it as the parent “sitting in on” the class. You need to say specifically “your child needs a one-on-one adult helper for this class.  The assistant teacher and I can’t do that, so if he’s going to participate you will need to be his helper.”

You are right. Good point.

[Rosie_0801]

First, though, consider that adding the parent might double the problems.

[fairfarmhand]

4 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

First, though, consider that adding the parent might double the problems.

I had thought of that too. Which makes me even more hesitant to open that door.

Ugh. 

Edited November 20, 2021 by fairfarmhand

[Not_a_Number]

47 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

How specific do I need to get in how the parent should support the child? The fact that the parent sent the kid into this situation without mentioning anything, makes me wonder what the expectation was for us as teachers.

What do I do if the parent doesn't follow through? 

I will say that this was my experience with a situation like this -- the parent didn't really follow through. We told a parent that a kid needed an aide, they got an aide through the school system (they were entitled to one), the aide was a flake and didn't show up half the time, and then I still had to have my teen assistant basically manage the kid at all times. (This was a much younger kid but a similar situation.) 

I wouldn't offer this option to someone unless they sound receptive, frankly. I'd talk to them and get their feelings on the matter. If they seem even a little bit in denial, do NOT open that door. 

Edited November 20, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Innisfree]

I don't think you're obligated to let the child stay in the class, even with a parent helper. Don't feel guilty about just saying it isn't going to work.

I'd feel it was more important to let the parent observe one time, after a clear conversation about the difficulties you're seeing, just so they can see too.

Eta this assumes there's a convenient time without having the student in next semester's class, which might not be the case. 

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by Innisfree

[fairfarmhand]

7 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

 

Eta this assumes there's a convenient time without having the student in next semester's class, which might not be the case. 

 

Yeah, this is it. We're done for the semester, so that wouldn't work.

I think I will rework my materials to be more concise and crystal clear about the abilities needed to succeed in the class. The info is in there, but isn't as clear as what it should be. At any rate, it does say that the first semester is a trial period after which students who do not do well may not come back. 

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, Danae said:

I would not phrase it as the parent “sitting in on” the class. You need to say specifically “your child needs a one-on-one adult helper for this class.  The assistant teacher and I can’t do that, so if he’s going to participate you will need to be his helper.”

And it could be on a trial basis.

42 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

I don't think you're obligated to let the child stay in the class, even with a parent helper. Don't feel guilty about just saying it isn't going to work.

I'd feel it was more important to let the parent observe one time, after a clear conversation about the difficulties you're seeing, just so they can see too.

Eta this assumes there's a convenient time without having the student in next semester's class, which might not be the case. 

I agree, though it sounds like this won't be the case.

33 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

Yeah, this is it. We're done for the semester, so that wouldn't work.

I think I will rework my materials to be more concise and crystal clear about the abilities needed to succeed in the class. The info is in there, but isn't as clear as what it should be. At any rate, it does say that the first semester is a trial period after which students who do not do well may not come back. 

I don't remember what your other attempts to discuss this were like or how far you went in being specific, so this might not apply--the OP is gone for me to go back and check. If it's warranted, you can try to convey that even though you can give specifics now, it's really too late to fix this for next semester, and you're sorry that it's really too late (without throwing yourself totally under the bus). 

I also want to say that these situations are hard for multiple reasons when everyone is acting in good faith, so you don't have to be perfect. You can't control her responses, but you can act in ways that will be less likely to magnify existing pain if it's there and that gives her an opportunity to learn something useful. I hope that makes sense. Approaching her like a bomb that could go off (not that you're doing that, but some people do just that under pressure) may be protective on your end, but it's also likely to come across in some way that you don't mean it to that you see her as a problem or her child as a problem. Denial is not a bomb, and it's not always reachable, but if she's not in denial, she could still be burned from past experiences. I guess I am saying that when you envision what could go wrong, remember that someday later, if you were kind/informative, she might be able to redeem the information you give her even if she is in denial now. If she's a loose cannon, nothing you do will prevent a problem. I am kind of the sort that thinks realizing those two extremes leaves a lot of middle ground to move forward, and you can't usually fix extreme anyway.

I don't think you need to feel bad about saying no to having the child in class again, but you might anticipate what you will say if she feels like this is a situation where she wasn't given a chance to fix it and say something kind (maybe, "I didn't realize we'd get to the end of the semester and not be able to fix this until it was too late"), just not in a way that suggests you're happy be seeing the back of her and her child.

So, the thing that would frustrate me about this as a parent is that if I didn't quite put the pieces together myself about whether my kid would be successful in that class (for instance, I've seen my kid do those things piecemeal in another context that was a better fit for reasons yet to be determined), why would someone wait until the end of the semester to let me know this is a disaster? If you didn't, that's fine. She might also have heard a problem earlier but not heard "this is going to be a deal breaker." That's what I was trying to verify, but the OP is gone. It's too late at that point for the parent to be a 1:1 aide or to observe, etc. I would feel like it's too little too late, and now people are upset with me, and I am out of options for my kid. However, I was always pretty up front with people too, so I can be putting more into this than what happened--I just want to add the perspective in case this mom has been there. Sometimes people ignored me; sometimes they downplayed it; sometimes they said they could handle it; sometimes I looked looney because my son thrived in the situation (nothing like looking like I'm creating trouble where none exists); sometimes the person had a split personality about the issues depending on the day, which was always fun to navigate, and gave me a lot of insight into why my kid might not be doing so well in that class! You name it, I've been on the receiving end (including people who thought my son was the greatest thing since sliced bread and couldn't believe others had issues!). This leaves the parent without a way to assess the next opportunity accurately because they are lacking context or specifics. 

When my son was in school, some teachers thought they knew what the problem was (if one came up--it didn't always). They didn't. They also didn't listen to the things we knew were problems (except for his K teacher; she listened, and while I know he gave her a bit of a run for her money, things did a 180, and she enjoyed him). There is nothing like being blamed for all of it no matter how much you've propped things up for success. In one instance, we were told we weren't receptive because we told the school that something had to have provoked behavior x. We were up front that behavior x was unacceptable to us as well; we were up front that it might not provoke behavior x in another child in the same circumstance, etc. but there was definitely something that triggered this, and until we knew what that was, we couldn't come up with an effective solution. He already knew he wasn't supposed to do behavior x no matter what, and it didn't help to know that. He couldn't figure out how to fix it in that moment. That's a ROTTEN place to put a parent while accusing them of enabling. My son was able to tell us a LONG time later exactly what had happened, and it was a confluence of several problems, and it turns out that he threw the instruction that he *can't do behavior x, ever* out with the bathwater because he was trying to satisfy another guideline the teacher had given, and they conflicted. He was being too black and white (another kid wouldn't have interpreted the situation the same way) and was in a situation with true pressures, and he couldn't really win. But we were accused of enabling bad behavior. Not one person in that situation saw or suspected ASD even though this is classic ASD stuff. But we were the problem. If anyone in that place had understood behavioral principles, and we knew about them, we could've have said, "Antecedent is a neutral term; you're the ones trying to make it an enabling term." But we didn't know, and apparently they didn't care; they just wanted happiness and joy in their little school at all times. (Thank God the principal and the school counselor were much more understanding.) We had our first evaluation after that with someone that knows gifted plus ASD, and ASD still never came up. Even parents who are not in denial can be accused of it, but they are supposed to apparently be omniscient while doing so. If she has been in that spot, she'll be frustrated. That's not your fault, but you can be aware. 

Anyway, mom may have been on the receiving end of this sort of treatment and might not really know how to explain that or even understand what happened to her, but she may very well *feel* it. 

[TravelingChris]

I taught in coops, group schools, Sunday School, VBS, etc I'll. Sometimes I was the main teacher some times the helper 

I have had kids in class who weren't keeping up but since no one was working on projects ether, it made no difference. Another time it was a girl who had been adopted out of a Romanian orphanage at 5.  She was 10 or 11 when she was in my Sunday School. I learned not to call on her for answers.  (Turned out that she was being awfully abused too)

The final example was another Sunday School and VBS role as a helper.  I ended up being mostly a 1 on 1 aid to a probably autistic child. That did work mostly though not very well when main teacher was gone