At what point would you lock down again?

[ktgrok]

Well, today, August 28th, my chuch finally sent something saying the diocese decided kids have to mask at indoor sunday school. That's a month after the UCC made that call. A month. A month of kids getting sick, families getting sick, our hospitals overwhelmed. Going to be honest - it is too little, too late. 

The UCC church has sunday school outdoors, and has had everyone masking since August 1st (before that had a time of only unvaccinated, per CDC, but they adapted quickly as cases started to rise mid July)

[MEmama]

17 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

I am just going to vent and get this out.   I had to go to Walmart to return things so I went last night thinking Friday night the store would be empty.  Not so.  College is back in session and the place was packed.  College kids are much less wearing masks.  Other than staff who have to be there were maybe 4 people in the store with very sad masks that are not even doing anything.   Then I drove by a bar and grill that was packed and everyone indoors no spacing.  I left the store crying because I was so freaked out.  When will I be able to get through shopping at a store and not freaking out.  I was masked and vaxxed but I still worry.  And then driving by the bar just made me so sad.  Not that I want to go to the bar, but many those people are living like nothing is going on.  And I have not been living like that.  And because I am still careful and locked down in some ways we have missed out on so much.  Am I doing the right thing to be doing that?  To have made my kids miss out on so much.  I want my teens to do normal teen stuff.  Am I making a mistake for not letting them do the normal stuff?  And my youngers are missing things they want to do too.  Just sucks. 

I know in your heart you already know this, but in case you need to hear it today YES you are doing the right thing. ((Hugs)) to you. It really does suck. But doing the right thing is always right. ❤️

[mommyoffive]

Risk of Hospitalization Doubles With Delta Variant, Study Finds (msn.com)

 

88-Year-Old Professor Resigns Mid-Class When Student Refuses to Wear Mask (msn.com)

 

Should You Mix COVID-19 Vaccines? Here's What Experts Are Saying (msn.com)

 

Nursing shortages post-pandemic, one predicts: 'It's going to be a national crisis' (msn.com)

 

Fact check: Claim that school put 'ankle monitors' on unvaccinated athletes is missing context (msn.com)

 

 

[Corraleno]

9 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

I am just going to vent and get this out.   I had to go to Walmart to return things so I went last night thinking Friday night the store would be empty.  Not so.  College is back in session and the place was packed.  College kids are much less wearing masks.  Other than staff who have to be there were maybe 4 people in the store with very sad masks that are not even doing anything.   Then I drove by a bar and grill that was packed and everyone indoors no spacing.  I left the store crying because I was so freaked out.  When will I be able to get through shopping at a store and not freaking out.  I was masked and vaxxed but I still worry.  And then driving by the bar just made me so sad.  Not that I want to go to the bar, but many those people are living like nothing is going on.  And I have not been living like that.  And because I am still careful and locked down in some ways we have missed out on so much.  Am I doing the right thing to be doing that?  To have made my kids miss out on so much.  I want my teens to do normal teen stuff.  Am I making a mistake for not letting them do the normal stuff?  And my youngers are missing things they want to do too.  Just sucks. 

You know you're doing the right thing. It sucks that the vast majority of people who are living life like covid is NBD will be fine, and will feel vindicated that their approach was the best because their lives were not at all inconvenienced (never mind the other people they may have infected). But some will be very much not-fine, and a few will be shocked when a healthcare provider tells them to say goodbye to their loved ones That 24 year old woman on a ventilator, who didn't want to miss out on a big family vacation, is now missing out on the first months of her baby's life. And that's the best outcome she can hope for — worst case scenario is her toddler and newborn grow up without a mother. Because her family decided to live life like "this is not that real of a virus" since it hadn't hit their family. Until it did. (((hugs)))

Edited August 29, 2021 by Corraleno

[busymama7]

1 hour ago, mommyoffive said:

I am just going to vent and get this out.   I had to go to Walmart to return things so I went last night thinking Friday night the store would be empty.  Not so.  College is back in session and the place was packed.  College kids are much less wearing masks.  Other than staff who have to be there were maybe 4 people in the store with very sad masks that are not even doing anything.   Then I drove by a bar and grill that was packed and everyone indoors no spacing.  I left the store crying because I was so freaked out.  When will I be able to get through shopping at a store and not freaking out.  I was masked and vaxxed but I still worry.  And then driving by the bar just made me so sad.  Not that I want to go to the bar, but many those people are living like nothing is going on.  And I have not been living like that.  And because I am still careful and locked down in some ways we have missed out on so much.  Am I doing the right thing to be doing that?  To have made my kids miss out on so much.  I want my teens to do normal teen stuff.  Am I making a mistake for not letting them do the normal stuff?  And my youngers are missing things they want to do too.  Just sucks. 

I'm sorry. I feel so similar because I did catch it (despite being more careful than the vast majority of people I know) and now have long haul.  It is very unfair.  

[KSera]

1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

For example, the Q-nuts known as "America's Frontline Doctors" are pushing the lie that more than 45,000 people have died within 3 days of getting the vaccine, based on calculations by an unnamed "data analyst" who must remain anonymous so scary government agents don't kill her. That is a really widespread belief among anti-vaxxers (including a few on this forum).

I’ve seen this alluded to right here on this forum several times in the last 24 hours by someone discouraging vaccination in someone who has decided to get vaccinated. So upsetting. 

[mommyoffive]

Florida breaks another COVID record with 27,584 new cases (local10.com)

[mommyoffive]

 

One week (August 21 to today August 28).

[Shoes+Ships+SealingWax]

40 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

One week (August 21 to today August 28).

Are there images available of the previous week (14th to 21st)? We don’t have cable or anything & people here are acting like nothing’s happening, so while I’d heard murmurings of Delta I was kind of caught off-guard by how bad it got here & how quickly. 

[mommyoffive]

10 minutes ago, Shoes+Ships+SealingWax said:

Are there images available of the previous week (14th to 21st)? We don’t have cable or anything & people here are acting like nothing’s happening, so while I’d heard murmurings of Delta I was kind of caught off-guard by how bad it got here & how quickly. 

I saved this and I am 99% sure it is for the previous week.  I didn't label it, but I know it is.

Just found my earlier post that gave you the week before.

Edited August 28, 2021 by mommyoffive

[mommyoffive]

On 8/24/2021 at 8:02 PM, mommyoffive said:

Wow, just looked at the Covidactnow map!   Other than 2 states in the midwest only the northeast isn't red now.  Back to being red, that is more stressful.  And schools haven't even started yet.  In my college town the kids are back in town. 

 

 

 

Around half the people at the store were masked.  A lot more than just a few months ago.

bumping this

[mommyoffive]

US Coronavirus: 'There is no room to put these bodies,' Alabama health official says, as Covid-19 deaths climb (msn.com)

[mommyoffive]

Thousands in Germany protest restrictions on unvaccinated (msn.com)

 

Portable morgues head to Central Florida for ‘unprecedented’ death toll amid COVID surge (msn.com)

 

Germans Protest Covid Rules; Japan Probes Deaths: Virus Update (msn.com)

 

Unwanted record: Russia's COVID deaths hit new high in July (msn.com)

 

The Latest: Sturgis rally impacts virus cases in 5 states (msn.com)

 

Veteran dies of treatable illness after waiting hours for ICU bed (msn.com)

 

[Shoes+Ships+SealingWax]

27 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

bumping this

Thank you. Hoping that Hurricane Ida doesn’t strengthen & send a huge influx to our area. I don’t even want to think of the fallout from Delta sweeping through crowded emergency shelters. 😣 

[ktgrok]

29 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Wow! Our Episcopal Diocese issued a directive last month that masks are required for non-vaccinated people. 

Ours was slow the first time around too - the last diocese/denomination in the whole area to require masks. But, we are I think the 2nd most conservative diocese in the country (after one in Texas I think). Maybe that is why?

And I should add the parish email made clear that the renewed call to mask indoors for everyone was handed down from our diocese - not a decision the parish was making. Which is ducking responsiblity - the parish should have implemented this a month ago, with our without direction from the diocese. We have MORGUE TRUCKS FILLING UP - this was not a hard decision!

Like I said though, the ONLY church that went back to masks for all at this start of this month was the UCC. And I feel safer with kids outdoors and distanced in their own assigned camp chairs, even unmasked, than masked in a small room in an old building. Plus, our old church has NOTHING for youth 6th grade and up this year. 

[Not_a_Number]

34 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

US Coronavirus: 'There is no room to put these bodies,' Alabama health official says, as Covid-19 deaths climb (msn.com)

This is taking me back to March 2020 😕 . 

By the way, is anyone else being kind of shocked by the fact that lots of very careful and even I'd say paranoid people are feeling fine about sending their kids to in-person school right now? I've now heard quite a few friends say that, and I'm very surprised.   

[Not_a_Number]

3 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

I am just going to vent and get this out.   I had to go to Walmart to return things so I went last night thinking Friday night the store would be empty.  Not so.  College is back in session and the place was packed.  College kids are much less wearing masks.  Other than staff who have to be there were maybe 4 people in the store with very sad masks that are not even doing anything.   Then I drove by a bar and grill that was packed and everyone indoors no spacing.  I left the store crying because I was so freaked out.  When will I be able to get through shopping at a store and not freaking out.  I was masked and vaxxed but I still worry.  And then driving by the bar just made me so sad.  Not that I want to go to the bar, but many those people are living like nothing is going on.  And I have not been living like that.  And because I am still careful and locked down in some ways we have missed out on so much.  Am I doing the right thing to be doing that?  To have made my kids miss out on so much.  I want my teens to do normal teen stuff.  Am I making a mistake for not letting them do the normal stuff?  And my youngers are missing things they want to do too.  Just sucks. 

I think your kids are learning important lessons from the way you've lived this year. I wouldn't discount that. 

[KSera]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

This is taking me back to March 2020 😕 . 

By the way, is anyone else being kind of shocked by the fact that lots of very careful and even I'd say paranoid people are feeling fine about sending their kids to in-person school right now? I've now heard quite a few friends say that, and I'm very surprised.   

I do think some very cautious people feel more confident about a fully masked environment than I do, even though I very much think it’s clear that everyone masked dramatically reduces transmission. With Delta though, I feel like even that dramatic reduction isn’t enough for me to feel really comfortable with everyone together inside for that long. If everyone was wearing KF94s or similar, that would increase my confidence, but loose masks don’t seem sufficient for prolonged indoor contact such as a school day. I feel close to okay about the situation on a fully vaccinated, fully masked college campus, though. I’m very hopeful that will turn out to be a safe scenario and am encouraging my college kids to feel good about that. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, KSera said:

I do think some very cautious people feel more confident about a fully masked environment than I do, even though I very much think it’s clear that everyone masked dramatically reduces transmission. With Delta though, I feel like even that dramatic reduction isn’t enough for me to feel really comfortable with everyone together inside for that long. If everyone was wearing KF94s or similar, that would increase my confidence, but loose masks don’t seem sufficient for prolonged indoor contact such as a school day.

Yeah, I agree with you there. I think masks help but not enough given Delta and the long school day and the way that kids actually use masks. 

 

1 minute ago, KSera said:

I feel close to okay about the situation on a fully vaccinated, fully masked college campus, though. I’m very hopeful that will turn out to be a safe scenario and am encouraging my college kids to feel good about that. 

I'm hoping the college thing turns out to be OK. My sister is supposed to have classes start in-person soon, and I know she's really looking forward to that. To be honest, I rather worry that without early enough boosters, some older faculty members will get really sick and then things will go virtual again 😕. But hopefully not. 

[Shoes+Ships+SealingWax]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

This is taking me back to March 2020 😕 . 

By the way, is anyone else being kind of shocked by the fact that lots of very careful and even I'd say paranoid people are feeling fine about sending their kids to in-person school right now? I've now heard quite a few friends say that, and I'm very surprised.   

I wonder how many have simply become complacent. We did, I’ll admit. Once we were fully vaccinated & numbers were rapidly dropping, I stopped reading the news. No one here was talking about it. Nowhere required masks - not even the formerly cautious places. Schools opened as usual. Then we were busy with school, signing up for extracurriculars, etc. We just… relaxed. It wasn’t until the second kid DS knew got sick that I snapped out of it. 

[ktgrok]

2 minutes ago, KSera said:

I do think some very cautious people feel more confident about a fully masked environment than I do, even though I very much think it’s clear that everyone masked dramatically reduces transmission. With Delta though, I feel like even that dramatic reduction isn’t enough for me to feel really comfortable with everyone together inside for that long. If everyone was wearing KF94s or similar, that would increase my confidence, but loose masks don’t seem sufficient for prolonged indoor contact such as a school day. I feel close to okay about the situation on a fully vaccinated, fully masked college campus, though. I’m very hopeful that will turn out to be a safe scenario and am encouraging my college kids to feel good about that. 

Yup.

If the kids are vaccinated and there is a mask mandate, i get it. my fully vaccinated oldest works all day, with mask mandate (his clinic never stopped requiring them of EVERYONE). 

But unvaccinated? Nope. 

I'm BARELY okay with attending sunday school when it starts in 2 weeks, outdoors, distanced in their own chairs. But it looks like our positivity is starting to go down, and they truly have seen almost no one else since this started. TWO playdates and one time with the cousins. That's it. They need this, and I'm thinking outdoors distanced will be okay and hoping they can be vaccinated soon. 

We will be in the church first, but there is a LOT of air space (cathedral type building) and room to distance and a mask mandate. Kids will only be inside for the first 15 minutes or so, then go outside for Sunday school, and will wear KF94 or happy mask while inside. I'll be in the building, but I'm vaccinated, and will also wear a KF94. 

and that seems super risky to me. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Shoes+Ships+SealingWax said:

I wonder how many have simply become complacent. We did, I’ll admit. Once we were fully vaccinated & numbers were rapidly dropping, I stopped reading the news. No one here was talking about it. Nowhere required masks - not even the formerly cautious places. Schools opened as usual. Then we were busy with school, signing up for extracurriculars, etc. We just… relaxed. It wasn’t until the second kid DS knew got sick that I snapped out of it. 

Are kids having mild cases as far as you can see? I don't know any sick kids yet. I'm pretty sure I'll know them soon enough, but not yet. 

I've been monitoring numbers on my phone the whole pandemic, so I never fully relaxed. I FELT relaxed when Manhattan had 30 cases a day, but I didn't really feel like we were out of the woods. I'll feel differently when the kids are vaccinated, I think. 

[ktgrok]

Woot - my county is down to around 16% positivity from 20%....so...maybe we are turning a corner? Or..could be an anomaly. But man, I hope we are turning a corner. Our hospitals can't take much more. 

[Garga]

14 hours ago, kbutton said:

https://www.fox19.com/2021/08/24/workers-sue-tri-state-hospitals-over-covid-19-vaccine-requirement/?fbclid=IwAR3X5-rZOgYNR_UMcFpGAuS6_si5s405Fcbp9dcb_jI7pPAc97yzQxpRpaE

I am confused...is the government maintaining a revenue stream by overcounting or undercounting Covid deaths? These people are nuts.

Pretty sure they’re saying the numbers are being over-reported, while data of negative vaccine reactions/deaths are being under-reported.

[serendipitous journey]

4 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

I am just going to vent and get this out.  ... Not that I want to go to the bar, but many those people are living like nothing is going on.  And I have not been living like that.  And because I am still careful and locked down in some ways we have missed out on so much.  Am I doing the right thing to be doing that?  To have made my kids miss out on so much.  I want my teens to do normal teen stuff.  Am I making a mistake for not letting them do the normal stuff?  And my youngers are missing things they want to do too.  Just sucks. 

What can one say?  I'm so sorry.  It is incredibly hard.  Just know you aren't alone -- we see you, and hear you, and your little ones do too. 

I have learned, over the past few years, that to live a good life -- to try and show up, to do the right thing, to try to be unfailingly kind and loving and also tough -- isn't only hard, it is isolating.  It can leave one feeling lonely.  And one of the most painful things about my decisions to educate my kids, the fact that we homeschool and the manner in which we do it ... well, it means that my kids are also going to find themselves, sometime or other, standing in a very lonely place. 

You know, I think what you're doing -- trying to do the right thing -- is sort of like climbing a mountain.  A big one.  Back before you could hire folks to schlep everything up for you.  Not many people do it.  It's hard, and even if you have companions you have to power through yourself, in the end it is you & whatever source of faith/strength you have cultivated. 

But there is a place beyond the struggle, and past the loneliness.  There is truth, and strength, and an astonishing beauty: and you'll get a glimpse of this, sooner or later, you'll catch an echo of the good you've done, you'll see that the trail you cut eased a fellow traveler's way. 

And then it'll be up the next slope; or back into the fray; or paddling through the next series of waves.  You'll be in the thick of it so much more than up on the peaks. 

"You cannot stay on the summit forever; you have to come down again. So why bother in the first place? Just this: What is above knows what is below, but what is below does not know what is above. One climbs, one sees. One descends, one sees no longer, but one has seen. There is an art of conducting oneself in the lower regions by the memory of what one saw higher up. When one can no longer see, one can at least still know."        -- Rene Dumal

Edited August 28, 2021 by serendipitous journey

[Matryoshka]

19 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Yup.

If the kids are vaccinated and there is a mask mandate, i get it. my fully vaccinated oldest works all day, with mask mandate (his clinic never stopped requiring them of EVERYONE). 

But unvaccinated? Nope. 

I'm BARELY okay with attending sunday school when it starts in 2 weeks, outdoors, distanced in their own chairs. But it looks like our positivity is starting to go down, and they truly have seen almost no one else since this started. TWO playdates and one time with the cousins. That's it. They need this, and I'm thinking outdoors distanced will be okay and hoping they can be vaccinated soon. 

We will be in the church first, but there is a LOT of air space (cathedral type building) and room to distance and a mask mandate. Kids will only be inside for the first 15 minutes or so, then go outside for Sunday school, and will wear KF94 or happy mask while inside. I'll be in the building, but I'm vaccinated, and will also wear a KF94. 

and that seems super risky to me. 

I've signed up to be an in-person greeter for our first Sunday back (12th) - we'll be inside, masked, spaced out, big air space, windows open, no singing.  I just read our welcome-back email, and it does sound like RE will be inside with all the kids together - I'm guessing with the RE director? I'll admit I haven't been paying attention to that detail since my kids are grown.  Usually we have separate classes, but with a year and a half of Zoom, I think it's not clear how many will come?  Our cases, though, are dramatically lower than Florida's - but of course school isn't back in session yet - that RE class will be just after the first week back.  Fortunately it does look like the schools will have a mask mandate.  We usually have an ice cream social, I hear they're thinking of hiring an ice cream truck so we can do something outdoors.  That actually sounds like a fairly good idea...

[Shoes+Ships+SealingWax]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

Are kids having mild cases as far as you can see? I don't know any sick kids yet. I'm pretty sure I'll know them soon enough, but not yet. 

I've been monitoring numbers on my phone the whole pandemic, so I never fully relaxed. I FELT relaxed when Manhattan had 30 cases a day, but I didn't really feel like we were out of the woods. I'll feel differently when the kids are vaccinated, I think. 

One, the older brother of a friend of DS, just had a close contact scare - he didn’t end up contracting it. Sorry, I forgot that was just a scare & not a confirmed illness.

The other (an 11yr old) is on Day 10 & only had fatigue / headaches early on. He passed it to his dad, but dad is vaccinated & has been almost entirely asymptomatic. Thankfully his mom & sisters (ages 9 & 3) have this far remained negative. 

EDIT: All of our area children’s hospitals are at capacity for Pedi ICU - 19 counties worth. At least 72 kids hospitalized, but that article is several days old now. Houston just confirmed it’s first death of an otherwise healthy kid with no other conditions. 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Shoes+Ships+SealingWax

[Shoeless]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

This is taking me back to March 2020 😕 . 

By the way, is anyone else being kind of shocked by the fact that lots of very careful and even I'd say paranoid people are feeling fine about sending their kids to in-person school right now? I've now heard quite a few friends say that, and I'm very surprised.   

Yep.  I have a lot of opinions about it, but I keep them to myself. 

I now know of 9 kids that have had Covid, ranging from age 4-ish to 16-ish. None of the kids were tested because they didn't want to put the kids through a test, but were symptomatic after the parents developed symptoms and had a positive test.  The kids seem ok so far; at least 2 of the parents still have brain fog after Covid. No one was vaccinated, except 1 parent who had a mild, breakthrough case.  

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, MissLemon said:

Yep.  I have a lot of opinions about it, but I keep them to myself. 

I now know of 9 kids that have had Covid, ranging from age 4-ish to 16-ish. None of the kids were tested because they didn't want to put the kids through a test, but were symptomatic after the parents developed symptoms and had a positive test.  The kids seem ok so far; at least 2 of the parents still have brain fog after Covid. No one was vaccinated, except 1 parent who had a mild, breakthrough case.  

I'm glad the kids seem OK, anyway. Keep me updated on that? I'd love to have more anecdata on kids. 

[ktgrok]

32 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

I've signed up to be an in-person greeter for our first Sunday back (12th) - we'll be inside, masked, spaced out, big air space, windows open, no singing.  I just read our welcome-back email, and it does sound like RE will be inside with all the kids together - I'm guessing with the RE director? I'll admit I haven't been paying attention to that detail since my kids are grown.  Usually we have separate classes, but with a year and a half of Zoom, I think it's not clear how many will come?  Our cases, though, are dramatically lower than Florida's - but of course school isn't back in session yet - that RE class will be just after the first week back.  Fortunately it does look like the schools will have a mask mandate.  We usually have an ice cream social, I hear they're thinking of hiring an ice cream truck so we can do something outdoors.  That actually sounds like a fairly good idea...

ice cream truck rental is a smart idea!

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

This is taking me back to March 2020 😕 . 

By the way, is anyone else being kind of shocked by the fact that lots of very careful and even I'd say paranoid people are feeling fine about sending their kids to in-person school right now? I've now heard quite a few friends say that, and I'm very surprised.   

I don't know that many people being careful. Some friends are fairly careful, but they have kept up with activities, and did fine until this summer. Then the unvaccinated in the family got Covid. I don't know if the vaccinated family members tested to see if they were asymptomatic--at the time, data on people with vaccines was still showing that it was rare for vaccinated people to get it. I do know that the vaccinated family members had no symptoms. 

We have one reluctantly in school, but it's only half days, small classes, he's vaccinated/masked, huge classroom (industrial arts type stuff), and they leave an enormous garage style door open (at least for now). 

[serendipitous journey]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

Are kids having mild cases as far as you can see? I don't know any sick kids yet. I'm pretty sure I'll know them soon enough, but not yet. 

...

Can't speak to this with direct experience, but through DH's academic grapevine we learned that his colleagues at pediatric hospitals are seeing the beds fill up, and are very concerned about COVID & unvaccinated kids.  I don't know whether or not the children getting sick were already vulnerable/at risk somehow; I don't think our information touched on that. 

Edited August 28, 2021 by serendipitous journey

[Shoes+Ships+SealingWax]

We’re also seeing a surge of RSV here in Texas, concurrent with the Delta variant, that is causing a lot of concern. Kids who are contracting both simultaneously are at a much higher risk of needing hospitalization. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/covid-rsv-viruses-texas-children-back-to-school/amp/

 

[Matryoshka]

20 minutes ago, serendipitous journey said:

Can't speak to this with direct experience, but through DH's academic grapevine we learned that his colleagues at pediatric hospitals are seeing the beds fill up, and are very concerned about COVID & unvaccinated kids.  I don't know whether or not the children getting sick were already vulnerable/at risk somehow; I don't think our information touched on that. 

It'll be interesting to see what happens locally with schools opening back up.  I just checked, and 95+% of kids 16-19 have been fully vaxxed, and 79% of kids 12-15 (with 94% of them with one dose, so probably fully vaxxed soon).  There will effectively be no social distancing, as there's no virtual option, so classes will be packed full.  We will have universal masking.  That seems like it has some chance of not being a total disaster, though I'm still not sure about everyone eating in a crowded cafeteria... but with this high a vax rate, maaaybe...?  If not for Delta, I'd be feeling very good about those numbers.

But the completely unvaxxed kids under 12? Masks yes, but again no social distancing this year (in stark contrast to last year).  And I think they'll be taking masks off for lunch inside.  I fear that will not be enough to protect that age cohort...

Interesting that the high school/college aged kids seem to be fully vaxxed at a higher rate than the adults 30-74yo (who are at about 85% fully vaxxed in town).

Edited August 28, 2021 by Matryoshka

[KSera]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

I'm glad the kids seem OK, anyway. Keep me updated on that? I'd love to have more anecdata on kids. 

I only know one young kid who had it, because most people I know have teens or college age.  The little one was sick but came out of it okay, and her parents were fairly miserable doing okay now. Like every breakthrough case that I know personally, it starts from an unvaccinated kid and then the parents catch it.  That matches some of the other data I’ve seen, showing that among vaccinated people, most don’t transmit it to people outside of their house, but they do transmit it to people inside their house. There’s just so much load being shared when you’re in that close of contact day in and day out.

11 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

I'm still not sure about everyone eating in a crowded cafeteria... but with this high a vax rate, maaaybe...?  If not for Delta, I'd be feeling very good about those numbers.

 

I think the lunchtime thing is what is so very risky. It really doesn’t make sense to have everyone packed into one room together and then have them all take off their masks. Would be an improvement if at least they ate in their classrooms so there were fewer people to be exposed, but then I don’t know who supervises them. Teachers need a break too. Outside for lunch would be ideal. It’s a hard one, because kids need to eat, obviously. I saw the proposal of a four hour school day so that kids could be sent home to eat. I don’t know though, my kids can’t go four hours without eating 😳. 

[Dmmetler]

49 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

It'll be interesting to see what happens locally with schools opening back up.  I just checked, and 95+% of kids 16-19 have been fully vaxxed, and 79% of kids 12-15 (with 94% of them with one dose, so probably fully vaxxed soon).  There will effectively be no social distancing, as there's no virtual option, so classes will be packed full.  We will have universal masking.  That seems like it has some chance of not being a total disaster, though I'm still not sure about everyone eating in a crowded cafeteria... but with this high a vax rate, maaaybe...?  If not for Delta, I'd be feeling very good about those numbers.

But the completely unvaxxed kids under 12? Masks yes, but again no social distancing this year (in stark contrast to last year).  And I think they'll be taking masks off for lunch inside.  I fear that will not be enough to protect that age cohort...

Interesting that the high school/college aged kids seem to be fully vaxxed at a higher rate than the adults 30-74yo (who are at about 85% fully vaxxed in town).

For college kids, that may be in response to universities/university systems mandating vaccination. I would imagine that the vaccination rate among college age students in VA, where the state U system AND almost all private schools are mandating vaccination is pretty high. In TN, not so much. 

 

FWIW, my teen's college, which mandates vaccination AND masking in buildings has limited seating and spread out tables in the cafeteria this year, and is encouraging students who are vaccinated to choose to eat outside (theoretically, students with exemptions or who are not yet fully vaccinated due to the timing not working out-,mostly international students-are supposed to eat outdoors or in their dorm rooms. In practice, I don't see how they can ever enforce that. The student ID might be able to code vaccination status or not, but no one is checking it as to whether you're allowed to sit down or not, only scanning it on entry to make sure you have a meal plan. 

[Terabith]

I know at least three families of people who have been incredibly cautious about covid but simply don't have any real choice about sending kids back to in person school, even with the kids unvaccinated.  Most of them are rather resigned to their kids contracting covid but simply do not see a way around it.  I'm talking about families that have been completely locked down since March 2020, who kept their kids home all last year, while both parents tried to work full time from home or single parent families where parent was trying to work full time and manage virtual school.  These families are suffering greatly.  These are kids who are depressed, anxious, and have been on screens for 8-10 plus hours a day for 18 months while parents tried to keep them quiet so that they could work.  Parents who tried to manage both very young children's virtual schools (kindergarten/ first grade) while working full time.  Kids who completely failed to make any kind of academic progress, despite all the stress and attempts to work with the kids.  Both parents and kids are completely at their breaking points.  They just cannot sustain that kind of stress indefinitely, and the families have decided that now that the adults/ older kids/ teens have been vaccinated, they just don't have any other good choice.  At some point the risks of isolation and mental health become a bigger concern than covid.....which doesn't mean the parents aren't absolutely petrified about covid.  Trying to either virtual school little kids or even supervise preschool aged children while working full time is just a whole different scenario than a family that is set up and equipped for homeschooling who is able to homeschool their kids.  

All of the families that I know of are huge believers in masking, but they are all three educated enough about covid that they do not think that masks will be protective enough with delta.  They hope it reduces viral loads to prevent serious illness.  They are all concerned about things like ventilation as well, but Delta is just so much more contagious that most of these precautions simply won't be sufficient.  

[Shoes+Ships+SealingWax]

4 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Trying to either virtual school little kids or even supervise preschool aged children while working full time is just a whole different scenario than a family that is set up and equipped for homeschooling who is able to homeschool their kids.  

I have never been more thankful to homeschool than over the past 18mo; it has made this whole process infinitely simpler & more tolerable. 

[Dmmetler]

My now college kid has expressed that they sometimes can't believe this fall is real-that they won't wake up and go to class on TEAMS all morning, and spend the evening going around looking for pokemon raids and seeing people only on zoom. Being able to get up, go to the cafeteria and eat with friends, or at least people you know from classes and the dorm, go to class with other people, and just plain have face to face contact feels like a dream. I am praying that a  98+% vaccinated population, masking indoors most of the time, and weekly pooled testing for vaccinated and twice-weekly PCR testing for those who are not yet fully vaccinated is enough to keep the dream alive. 

 

I can understand why parents of too young to be vaccinated kids feel there is no choice. And why parents of vaccinated teens are sending their teens and praying that their teens won't get infected and infect too young to be vaccinated kids. I just don't understand why so many are fighting something as simple as a mask when it might well make the difference. 

[Not_a_Number]

31 minutes ago, Shoes+Ships+SealingWax said:

I have never been more thankful to homeschool than over the past 18mo; it has made this whole process infinitely simpler & more tolerable. 

Same. 

[Not_a_Number]

18 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

I can understand why parents of too young to be vaccinated kids feel there is no choice. And why parents of vaccinated teens are sending their teens and praying that their teens won't get infected and infect too young to be vaccinated kids. I just don't understand why so many are fighting something as simple as a mask when it might well make the difference. 

I actually kind of don’t. I think this is THE time to keep younger kids home for another 4 months. The vaccines will come. Then I’ll be OK with activities. But sending them before a vaccine, with the vaccine on the horizon? I wouldn’t do it.

[Wheres Toto]

3 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

This is taking me back to March 2020 😕 . 

By the way, is anyone else being kind of shocked by the fact that lots of very careful and even I'd say paranoid people are feeling fine about sending their kids to in-person school right now? I've now heard quite a few friends say that, and I'm very surprised.   

I am seeing a lot of people who didn't seem to know what was going on with Delta until our school mask mandate was announced.   Then we got a surge of people "homeschooling" to avoid wearing masks.  😕

What really surprised me was a friend who had been very vocal about masking and vaccination, and being super careful all along who posted pictures while on vacation in Florida with no masks being worn.   I'm thinking maybe some people aren't aware of the vaccination breakthrough statistics? 

[cintinative]

Not sure where to put this. In related news the USDA's NVSL website is down.

https://www.wlwt.com/article/white-tailed-deer-in-ohio-first-to-first-to-test-positive-for-covid-worldwide/37418518#

Wild white-tailed deer in Ohio have tested positive for COVID-19 and they're the first deer confirmed with the virus worldwide, according to the United States Department of Agriculture’s National Veterinary Services Laboratories.

The Ohio State University College of Veterinary Medicine collected samples from deer between January and March 2021.

Samples from the deer tested presumptive positive for SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, at the College of Veterinary Medicine and the cases were confirmed by the National Veterinary Services Laboratories.

[Dmmetler]

28 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I actually kind of don’t. I think this is THE time to keep younger kids home for another 4 months. The vaccines will come. Then I’ll be OK with activities. But sending them before a vaccine, with the vaccine on the horizon? I wouldn’t do it.

I can. I couldn't last fall, but I can now. Especially for kids struggling with anxiety and depression that has emerged in the last 18 months, or who have been losing major ground on hard fought social behaviors and academic skills due to the lack of special ed instruction last year. 

 

Add that schools in my state cannot offer any combination of online and in person instruction-it;s all or nothing. So, you had to make a choice, last Spring/Summer, to transfer your child out of their school and into a virtual campus. No option to hold their spot in their current school and do virtual grading period by grading period, as was the case for the schools that were in person last year. Especially if your child had a choice transfer for a magnet program, or even just a different district school, that's a hard choice to make-and when it was made, the CDC was saying that vaccination was working almost perfectly and that it was safe for vaccinated grandparents to see their non-vaccinated grandkids without masks. Now, parents are stuck with staying in person or pulling their kids out to homeschool entirely, which is an even bigger step. 

 

 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Dmmetler said:

I can. I couldn't last fall, but I can now. Especially for kids struggling with anxiety and depression that has emerged in the last 18 months, or who have been losing major ground on hard fought social behaviors and academic skills due to the lack of special ed instruction last year. 

OK, yes, I see that. Those aren't the cases I'm talking about. 

[Not_a_Number]

7 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

That's why DD is in school now. We made the decision to send her back to school last spring, long before Delta was on the horizon. She was starting to have some struggles with anxiety. She was lonely. 

Being in school is the healthiest thing for DD right now in terms of her mental health. She's happy and It removed a lot of the tension between DD and DH over math. 

And now we're stuck in this either/or thing. The school doesn't offer any virtual options. It's a private school so if pulled DD out, there's no guarantee her spot would be there later. It was hard to maintain friendships with kids who are in school. I saw last year how it seemed like DD's friends were moving past her. DD can struggle to make new friends. She already has friends at this school. 

Yeah, I do get that 😕 . It feels to me like the people we know have more options than that. Most people we know live in much more careful places. But maybe I'm wrong about the choices. 

[Terabith]

My sister and her husband both work full time.  They have a second grader and a set of 2 year old twins.  The second grader goes to a magnet school that if they pull him out of, he can never get back into.  They live in Tennessee, where there is no mask mandate or any precautions for covid whatsoever.  Last year they cobbled together an education for my nephew, between doing hybrid program with the school, my parents (who are pretty darn vulnerable to the virus) doing a fair amount of homeschooling, and my sister trying to virtual school while working full time from home.  The twins were in day care the whole time.  Now, there's no hybrid option for my nephew's school.  Delta makes my parents even more vulnerable.  And they just cannot practically homeschool and work full time.  It's one thing to keep young kids out of activities for a few more months.  It's a lot harder with older kids who have been isolated for a year and a half and are developing real mental health challenges or for families who have practical issues with child care and working.  

 

[Arcadia]

The air quality index is so bad that my kids’ tennis lessons got canceled. We get haze from the wildfires. People are probably staying home and running their air filters. 

[Wheres Toto]

4 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

To be fair, the only people with choices are families with a SAHM. I work from home so I had more flexibility than other working moms but I still had to work which affected our homeschooling. 

My ideal situation is required masking in school and two virtual days a week to reduce contact between the children. 

Online schooling is terrible for us. DD hates Zoom. 

Are schools in the northeast offering hybrid options? Is virtual an option there? Our state forbids school districts from offering virtual options this year. If you want virtual schooling, you must enroll them in a virtual school which isn't through your district. 

 

In NJ, Murphy is still saying there will be no virtual option this year.   We do have a mask mandate back so hopefully things won't get too bad.   We don't have any public school virtual options here at all.  K12 and all those are only available as a private school.  

[Not_a_Number]

7 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Are schools in the northeast offering hybrid options? Is virtual an option there? Our state forbids school districts from offering virtual options this year. If you want virtual schooling, you must enroll them in a virtual school which isn't through your district. 

You might be right that they are not 😕 . I can see how people feel powerless right now.