Mark of the Beast

[Catwoman]

Just now, regentrude said:

Of course I was being sarcastic. It baffles me that this has to be pointed out explicitly 

I agree! 

I actually went back and re-read your post a few extra times to try and figure out how anyone could have possibly thought you were serious!  😆

[kbutton]

10 hours ago, DawnM said:

I remember hearing  a lot of people in the 60s/70s were very fearful of credit cards because they thought it was "a slippery slope" to THE MARK.

And then there were those who thought grocery check out scanners were a slippery slope.

The crowd near me puts the vaccine/masks, etc. in the slippery slope category. 

[Catwoman]

10 minutes ago, kbutton said:

The crowd near me puts the vaccine/masks, etc. in the slippery slope category. 

Have you thought about moving? 😉 

[DawnM]

57 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Not for anything, but I’m pretty sure there is not a single person on this planet who would agree to getting a tattoo on their hand or their forehead — or anywhere else, for that matter — to prove they were vaccinated. 

I find it a little disconcerting that anyone would have thought @regentrude actually meant that only some people might balk at the idea of it! 

This whole “mark of the beast” thing is absurd. Why must some people constantly look for the least probable and most horrible explanation for things? I am getting so tired of the ridiculous conspiracy theories surrounding every single aspect of Covid.

Because they make it political.....and it shouldn't be.   

[J-rap]

A lot of weird stuff is going on behind the scenes among some Christians.  (I'm pretty sure a small minority, but I guess who knows!  Nothing surprises me anymore after this past year.)  I personally know of a group that believes that the Covid vaccine changes something in your body so that if you (someone who had the vaccine) are even just standing next to a fertile woman (who hasn't had the vaccine), it will somehow radiate some kind of waves to her making her unable to become pregnant after that.  

But I think a slightly broader group has been groomed to put all their hope into (misinterpreted) prophecies of the book of Revelation, and just wants so much for things to start happening.  They're convinced that events that have become linked with the other political party are signs of the final war between good and evil.  They believe that a "one world order" is coming soon, and is the beginning of an evil takeover before Christ comes again.  It is apparently partly led by Bill Gates and Klaus Schwab, and the only person who can stop it from happening is the past president.  It's called the Great Reset.  

[lauraw4321]

I’m sure what’s happening in Israel isn’t helping this. 

[LaughingCat]

7 hours ago, Seasider too said:

Oh, the irony... 🙄

I don’t think of this as irony - more as proof that we can all be fooled.
 

I think often we dismiss smart thinking from historical personages when they blew it on other things — but really it should remind us that we are all fools on something, and probably something that we are ( currently) not even aware we are being foolish about.

[HeartString]

22 minutes ago, J-rap said:

A lot of weird stuff is going on behind the scenes among some Christians.  (I'm pretty sure a small minority, but I guess who knows!  Nothing surprises me anymore after this past year.)  I personally know of a group that believes that the Covid vaccine changes something in your body so that if you (someone who had the vaccine) are even just standing next to a fertile woman (who hasn't had the vaccine), it will somehow radiate some kind of waves to her making her unable to become pregnant after that.  

But I think a slightly broader group has been groomed to put all their hope into (misinterpreted) prophecies of the book of Revelation, and just wants so much for things to start happening.  They're convinced that events that have become linked with the other political party are signs of the final war between good and evil.  They believe that a "one world order" is coming soon, and is the beginning of an evil takeover before Christ comes again.  It is apparently partly led by Bill Gates and Klaus Schwab, and the only person who can stop it from happening is the past president.  It's called the Great Reset.  

The One World Order thing is weird, because that’s been the boogie man  for decades.  But…the Q ppl think the former guy will not just be president again, but that he’ll be president of the world, which sounds a lot like…the One World Order they are so worried about.  

[Catwoman]

14 minutes ago, HeartString said:

The One World Order thing is weird, because that’s been the boogie man  for decades.  But…the Q ppl think the former guy will not just be president again, but that he’ll be president of the world, which sounds a lot like…the One World Order they are so worried about.  

Stop making sense. They hate that. 😉 

[Pawz4me]

6 hours ago, lauraw4321 said:

I’m sure what’s happening in Israel isn’t helping this. 

Definitely not. It's like pouring gas on an already blazing fire.

 

6 hours ago, HeartString said:

The One World Order thing is weird, because that’s been the boogie man  for decades.  But…the Q ppl think the former guy will not just be president again, but that he’ll be president of the world, which sounds a lot like…the One World Order they are so worried about.  

But I think somehow it's okay if it's their guy.

(Please don't ask me to try to make it make sense.)

[DawnM]

So, I decided to dig a little, and found that vaccines linked to the mark of the beast goes way back to the first vaccine.   I mean like over 100 years ago.

https://publicdomainreview.org/essay/the-mark-of-the-beast-georgian-britains-anti-vaxxer-movement

[DawnM]

How many of us watched 'Thief in the Night' back in the day?   Scared the snot out of me.   Then I watched them in 1990 something and they were so ridiculous they we comical.

 

[historically accurate]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

How many of us watched 'Thief in the Night' back in the day?   Scared the snot out of me.   Then I watched them in 1990 something and they were so ridiculous they we comical.

 

I had nightmares for months after those. I remember freaking out every time I couldn't see my mom or dad - I was terrified they had been raptured and I was stuck without them. 

[kbutton]

8 hours ago, HeartString said:

The One World Order thing is weird, because that’s been the boogie man  for decades.  But…the Q ppl think the former guy will not just be president again, but that he’ll be president of the world, which sounds a lot like…the One World Order they are so worried about.  

So much of what the paranoid people want sounds just like what they are trying to avoid. I haven't heard this version exactly, but so many of their solutions has this tone.

But they don't live in fear, right? SMH

[Dmmetler]

20 hours ago, Lady Florida. said:

Wow, I haven't heard mark of the beast stuff since bar codes first showed up. There was a time remembered by those of us of a certain age, when no product had a bar code. Everything had a price sticker and the cashier had to look at the sticker and enter the price in the cash register. When bar codes first came to be, they were only on a few products. As time went on more products had bar codes. At first those people who thought it was the mark of the beast refused to buy anything with a bar code. Eventually we all had no choice and the beast talk just disappeared (kind of like dates for the end of the world just disappear).

All that to say there will always be people who believe weird stuff. The past few years have proven that. Sadly, in this case it affects the rest of us since it just adds to the number of people who won't take the vaccine for totally non-science, non-medical reasons. 

Hobby Lobby didn't have bar codes until a few years back-they had four digit code numbers on the labels, and the clerks would key them in. My gut feeling is that eventually it got to the point that they would have needed a completely custom point of sale system because none of the commercial products sold to businesses of their size would work with their antiquated system, and their hardware was starting to fail.  Or maybe there was a divine revelation. (DH is a software engineer who specializes in point of sale, so this made much bigger ripples in my world than in most people who probably didn't even notice). 

 

 

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I'm not sure I agree that it's a small minority. I think these views are held widely in certain denominations. 

I attended a Zoom meeting yesterday at church about joining a prayer group. The leader kept making comments about "these times." This was a Catholic group so not fundie. 

DD and I just watched the movie about St. Oscar Romero. So when the leader mentioned "these times," I thought these people are are such snowflakes. During St. Oscar Romero's time, they were killing priests and laypeople. People taken out of their homes and shot. What's going on today in the USA? Is anyone prevented from following their faith? No. They're upset because same sex marriages are allowed but has anyone forced the Catholic Church to marry a same sex couple? No. You're not oppressed by being expected in polite company to call Caitlin Jenner a woman. Funny aside - how many of these folks are going to vote for her to be the new governor of California? Polite company - meaning that if you call her a a "he," no one is going to drag you out of your house and shoot you. 

But in "these times," it's so hard to be a Christian! LOL. 

And are these people at all concerned about people who find it hard to be a Christian today because they associate Christianity with anti-vax, COVID denying, apologists for our former president? 

 

This!

A lot of christians, my husband included, have been forced by conscience into the done category. I am hearing of more and more dones in our area, and I do not think this an anomaly unique to my region.

[J-rap]

2 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I'm not sure I agree that it's a small minority. I think these views are held widely in certain denominations. 

I attended a Zoom meeting yesterday at church about joining a prayer group. The leader kept making comments about "these times." This was a Catholic group so not fundie. 

DD and I just watched the movie about St. Oscar Romero. So when the leader mentioned "these times," I thought these people are are such snowflakes. During St. Oscar Romero's time, they were killing priests and laypeople. People taken out of their homes and shot. What's going on today in the USA? Is anyone prevented from following their faith? No. They're upset because same sex marriages are allowed but has anyone forced the Catholic Church to marry a same sex couple? No. You're not oppressed by being expected in polite company to call Caitlin Jenner a woman. Funny aside - how many of these folks are going to vote for her to be the new governor of California? Polite company - meaning that if you call her a a "he," no one is going to drag you out of your house and shoot you. 

But in "these times," it's so hard to be a Christian! LOL. 

And are these people at all concerned about people who find it hard to be a Christian today because they associate Christianity with anti-vax, COVID denying, apologists for our former president? 

 

I totally agree...  It's really quite stunning that they don't see that so many past events were so much more horrific and truly were displays of evil!  But certain prominent preachers are giving this message now, and I do think it's because so much of it has been infected with politics.  

Perhaps it's going on more than I think, but some Christians aren't yet comfortable saying it too loudly...

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Is progressive Christianity having a moment? Are the "dones" seeking out progressive churches or founding progressive churches? It seems like many people are seeking these days. 

Progressive churches are an anomaly in my area. It is super conservative here. The one that I subbed at today (piano) is the most progressive. But, there are theological beliefs that dh does not hold so he is not likely to attend there regularly.

[Guest]

On 5/15/2021 at 10:36 AM, marbel said:

Some of my family members would say it as joke. My husband and son joke like that.  (It reaches a point where it's not funny anymore...)

There are some crazy theories and general nuttiness out there. As HeartString said above, there are some folks who want so much to predict the end of the world and even bring it along. So they are looking constantly for signs of it and, of course, want to shout it out to the world so they get some sort of "credit" for being right. 

Yes, though I remember this being true in, say, 1978 as well. I even remember a speaker who came to our (kooky Christian) school, with a film strip and overhead projector of something like, “20 signs we are in The Last Days.” 

Complete nuttery. I believed more things like this then - being 7 years old - but I don’t think I ever really believed we were in the end times. 

[J-rap]

22 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

But even though it's a super conservative area, do most people adhere to super conservative beliefs? 

I come from the Bible Belt. My home state (Oklahoma) is the reddest state in the country. No counties supported Biden, not even the urban ones. However, most people didn't attend church regularly. They would claim to be a believer but they didn't actually practice. 

Many people don't even bother voting there because it's such a one-party state. 

In the last 10 or so years that my parents lived in Oklahoma, my mom started noticing that her friends were announcing that they had gay children and completely accepting their children. My mom went to a baby shower for the lesbian daughter of a friend. One of my parents closest church friends had a son who came out. These people were super Catholic and AFAIK still attend Mass every week. They completely accepted their son. 

I was a sorority girl from a conservative state university. One of my pledge sisters married her lesbian partner a few years ago. She lives deep in the Bible belt. 

I don't know about where you live but my observation about Oklahoma is (I don't live there anymore, BTW) that people are much more mainstream that you would think. Many people there have completely given up on government. They think they're in the minority so they don't bother voting. I think there is probably an idea that no church is better than a "progressive" church. 

That's too bad...    

I'll admit that even though my church and its theology would certainly be called progressive by some, I've never really cared for the term "progressive" as a church category because that often seems to have a stereotype among conservative evangelicals that it's moving away from the Gospel and with a liberal Democrat bent.

Whereas of course I personally believe those types of churches are (hopefully) moving closer to the Gospel message.  Maybe we just need to change the word "progressive" to something else!

[regentrude]

14 minutes ago, J-rap said:

I've never really cared for the term "progressive" as a church category because that often seems to have a stereotype among conservative evangelicals that it's moving away from the Gospel and with a liberal Democrat bent.

Whereas of course I personally believe those types of churches are (hopefully) moving closer to the Gospel message.  Maybe we just need to change the word "progressive" to something else!

"Christ-centered"? Love thy neighbor, care for the poor, and all that.

As opposed to Paul-centered.

I grew up Christian in a society where being a Christian was barely tolerated by the regime, and where the church was the most progressive force, at the forefront of environmental and peace movement. No misogyny. No proselytizing. 

Then I moved to the rural Midwest of the US. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by regentrude

[Faith-manor]

47 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

But even though it's a super conservative area, do most people adhere to super conservative beliefs? 

I come from the Bible Belt. My home state (Oklahoma) is the reddest state in the country. No counties supported Biden, not even the urban ones. However, most people didn't attend church regularly. They would claim to be a believer but they didn't actually practice. 

Many people don't even bother voting there because it's such a one-party state. 

In the last 10 or so years that my parents lived in Oklahoma, my mom started noticing that her friends were announcing that they had gay children and completely accepting their children. My mom went to a baby shower for the lesbian daughter of a friend. One of my parents closest church friends had a son who came out. These people were super Catholic and AFAIK still attend Mass every week. They completely accepted their son. 

I was a sorority girl from a conservative state university. One of my pledge sisters married her lesbian partner a few years ago. She lives deep in the Bible belt. 

I don't know about where you live but my observation about Oklahoma is (I don't live there anymore, BTW) that people are much more mainstream that you would think. Many people there have completely given up on government. They think they're in the minority so they don't bother voting. I think there is probably an idea that no church is better than a "progressive" church. 

Um. No. Seriously, people here still shun their adult children for anything viewed as non-traditional as far as church goers. Non church attending folks still tend towards a 1950's style outlook on sex, gender, marriage, race, poverty, etc. We are NOT in an area that could be remotely called "mainstream". My son got spit on and yelled at for wearing a rainbow shirt when he was 16. Exactly one UMC is inclusive, and one ELCA Lutheran church. That's it. We do not have an Episcopal church in the county, and the Baptist churches are aligned with IFB, Sovereign Grace, etc. The Nazarene church is openly hostile to anyone who is not super conservative ie. super republican. This is NOT a diverse area. When we visit our daughter and her family in Rocket City, it is like a different universe than here!

 

[Faith-manor]

38 minutes ago, Quill said:

Yes, though I remember this being true in, say, 1978 as well. I even remember a speaker who came to our (kooky Christian) school, with a film strip and overhead projector of something like, “20 signs we are in The Last Days.” 

Complete nuttery. I believed more things like this then - being 7 years old - but I don’t think I ever really believed we were in the end times. 

Oh my, yes! Not only did that speaker show up in this area, a church not far from here then had a drive in theater set up in their parking lot and showed "Tribulation" movies in the parking lot advertised to all ages and family friendly, but showed beheadings and torture! The pastor excused the rated R type stuff as being good for even little ones so they would be afraid to NOT be "saved" and say the prayer right away.

Sigh. And they all though Hal Lindsey was practically a god.

[ktgrok]

15 minutes ago, regentrude said:

"Christ-centered"? Love thy neighbor, care for the poor, and all that.

As opposed to Paul-centered.

I grew up Christian in a society where being a Christian was barely tolerated by the regime, and where the church was the most progressive force, at the forefront of environmental and peace movement. No misogyny. No proselytizing. 

Then I moved to the rural Midwest of the US. 

I've been questioning why Paul gets so much sway since before I can remember. Like, I get it. He was an important dude, but he wasn't Christ, and his words should not be considered as speaking for Jesus every time he opens his mouth!

The Episcopal Church's big message right now is "The Way of Love". 

[regentrude]

17 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I've been questioning why Paul gets so much sway since before I can remember. Like, I get it. He was an important dude, but he wasn't Christ, and his words should not be considered as speaking for Jesus every time he opens his mouth!

That was really something that struck me as a fundamental difference between my German Lutheran church and my experience here. Sure, we read Paul. And Corinthians 13 is a lovely message. 

But his words were never considered more important than Jesus'. And in all the years of Bible instruction I received, Paul's misogynistic views were never emphasized.

I also think it is very beneficial for a religion not to be a majority force. It keeps humility.

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Oh my, yes! Not only did that speaker show up in this area, a church not far from here then had a drive in theater set up in their parking lot and showed "Tribulation" movies in the parking lot advertised to all ages and family friendly, but showed beheadings and torture! The pastor excused the rated R type stuff as being good for even little ones so they would be afraid to NOT be "saved" and say the prayer right away.

Sigh. And they all though Hal Lindsey was practically a god.

I remember those...

 

Getting back to the original subject here, I can hardly tell you all the times when different things have been “pointing to End Times,” just since the 70s when I was growing up. I remember when the web was in its infancy that a friend of mine (whom I met on the web, lol!) sent me this “spooky” email about how the “www” of “World Wide Web” could be transformed into “VI VI VI” - 666! The Mark! OMG!!! 

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Quill said:

I remember those...

 

Getting back to the original subject here, I can hardly tell you all the times when different things have been “pointing to End Times,” just since the 70s when I was growing up. I remember when the web was in its infancy that a friend of mine (whom I met on the web, lol!) sent me this “spooky” email about how the “www” of “World Wide Web” could be transformed into “VI VI VI” - 666! The Mark! OMG!!! 

In college my boyfriend and his roommate liked to drink and watch some show all about the end times predictions....It was an old white couple, cheesy news background, quotes taken out of context and paired with news headlines....they thought it was hysterical. Anyone know what that was? Would have been 1995 about that I remember watching it with them. I think the woman had a strange name...

[Faith-manor]

1 minute ago, ktgrok said:

In college my boyfriend and his roommate liked to drink and watch some show all about the end times predictions....It was an old white couple, cheesy news background, quotes taken out of context and paired with news headlines....they thought it was hysterical. Anyone know what that was? Would have been 1995 about that I remember watching it with them. I think the woman had a strange name...

That would be Jack and Roxella Van Impe. Their show was a trip down crazy lane!

[Guest]

Just now, Faith-manor said:

That would be Jack and Roxella Van Impe. Their show was a trip down crazy lane!

Oh yeah! I had forgotten them! 

[ktgrok]

Just now, Faith-manor said:

That would be Jack and Roxella Van Impe. Their show was a trip down crazy lane!

YES! Thank you! I was googling and googling but "tv series end times predictions" didn't work, lol. 

Roxella...that was it. I never could figure out if those two believed the crazy they were spouting, or if it was all a big joke to them. It seemed WAY to bizarre to be real. 

[Garga]

I heard an interview with an old man and he was saying he was college-aged in the 1950s, but of course he and his group of friends didn’t bother going to college, because they knew they would be raptured well before they’d ever need to go out and get jobs. 

It’s 2021 now, so that was 70 years ago. 

[Garga]

I had a woman stand up in a small church I used to visit when I had to work the night shift (they had services at an odd hour I could manage to get to), and she told us all that the world would end in 7 years. She had been told and was warning us.

That was 30 years ago.

I really don’t know how people keep on believing they know when things will happen when everyone who has predicted the end of the world has been wrong. Every single person, every single time: wrong.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Garga

[Faith-manor]

7 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

YES! Thank you! I was googling and googling but "tv series end times predictions" didn't work, lol. 

Roxella...that was it. I never could figure out if those two believed the crazy they were spouting, or if it was all a big joke to them. It seemed WAY to bizarre to be real. 

It was money making. Back then they hit on their version of crazy book of revelation eschatology and cashed in. They had donations flowing in from everywhere, lived in a mansion, the typical tv evangelist trope. My father in law was very taken with them back in the day. Thankfully he never sent them more than $20. 

I doubt they believed in anything they were predicting. I would be shocked if they actually believed in the gospel or christian god. It was a snake oil salesman job, and many people who lived around them and knew them were quick to confirm that. But the internet and social media was not a thing so the message didn't travel fast about them. I wonder if they are still out there pedaling their "wares" to the small, aged crowd that might still think they are all that.

[Faith-manor]

Oh my goodness, she is still out there and recording from a studio in Rochester Hills!!! I can't believe it! Jack passed away and she is keeping it going. I guess donations are still doing okay. Sigh....

[ktgrok]

Just now, Faith-manor said:

Oh my goodness, she is still out there and recording from a studio in Rochester Hills!!! I can't believe it! Jack passed away and she is keeping it going. I guess donations are still doing okay. Sigh....

Yup, I just saw that. How is she still alive? She seemed "old" then! Not sure if she really was or it was bad plastic surgery or what. 

[Faith-manor]

12 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Yup, I just saw that. How is she still alive? She seemed "old" then! Not sure if she really was or it was bad plastic surgery or what. 

She is 88. So she would have been 62 in 1995, and they had been doing their shtick for a long time prior to that just on radio and in public speaking engagements until they landed their crazy tv show.

She is a smart one! Her current line is that the pandemic, and well anything else that is "calamitous" is a sign of the end times. Not THE sign, but a sign, so be ready for THE sign. Brilliant, no prediction that can be pinpointed, and yet everything is a sign. Just keep hanging that carrot out there.

Oy!!!

[Faith-manor]

Ordinary Shoes, I can relate. My dad got involved in a group called "Rough Times" prior to his dalliance with Gothardism. This group believed that the end times was nigh and Christian families would have to endure 3 years of tribulation prior to the rapture. Of course it was again, a snake oil salesman cloaked in religious talk in order to get rich. Members paid a lot for his "news" and advice. So the folks in the group spent a ton of money buying cases of dehydrated food, and first aid supplies, and guns and ammo to defend it all from the zombie hoard of unbelievers, and yada yada. It did not seem to be too jesusy to my brother and I. When that whole thing fell apart, all of the families we knew moved on to other end times endeavors. One gave up the family farm and almost all worldly possessions and forced his family to become street evangelists who lived out of a van and shouted salvation messages on street corners in cities to folks unfortunate to be waiting on the lights at crosswalks to change.

During the time my father was involved with the group, we had food and medical insecurity at home because it was more important to him to him to buy up stockpiles of crap for some hypotethical future than take care of us. Fortunately, my grandparents, a heck of a lot more logical them their son, lived three blocks away. We often walked there after school. I practiced on their piano, my brother did homework, and my grandmother cooked up a big, wholesome dinner to feed us. 

Then the Gothardism. Then it was Shackley shakes and vitamins were going to cure everything. And then it was bee pollen and honey because Samson, and John the Baptist, and on and on. He finally mellowed some in later middle age, and we had some good times. Then when he became elderly and ill, right back to crazy nonsense.

Extremism feeds on fear and anxiety. And the salesmen of this tripe know it all too well and live wealthy lives benefiting from it.

[Jaybee]

My dad used to say that no matter when the end times will be, you don't know when the end time for YOU will be, so you should live accordingly and not worry about the end times of the world. I think that was pretty wise.

[ktgrok]

27 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

She is 88. So she would have been 62 in 1995, and they had been doing their shtick for a long time prior to that just on radio and in public speaking engagements until they landed their crazy tv show.

She is a smart one! Her current line is that the pandemic, and well anything else that is "calamitous" is a sign of the end times. Not THE sign, but a sign, so be ready for THE sign. Brilliant, no prediction that can be pinpointed, and yet everything is a sign. Just keep hanging that carrot out there.

Oy!!!

Yup - it was always hints, not actual predictions. You got the feeling that you'd find out the real truth in the next episode....every time. It was like a soap opera that way - constant cliff hangers and drama but a decade later the plot is still the same. 

[AbcdeDooDah]

59 minutes ago, Garga said:

I heard an interview with an old man and he was saying he was college-aged in the 1950s, but of course he and his group of friends didn’t bother going to college, because they knew they would be raptured well before they’d ever need to go out and get jobs. 

It’s 2021 now, so that was 70 years ago. 

That's why I didn't go to college. It was so drilled I to my head. "It's all gonna burn!"

I graduate in June. At 48. 😁

[Faith-manor]

Oh good grief. Jim Bakker and wife #2 hawk apocalypse food! He is like a case of herpes, the world just can't shake him!

You know, when I was a kid, I thought this stuff was just so radical that it was only my goofball father and a few others involved. I never thought it was at all popular. But between Rexella still going at it, Gothardism still going strong, Bakker back in force pedaling crap, and this mark of the beast vaccine nonsense, I am disheartened to see just how many are making money off this end times stuff. I thought maybe after Kirk Cameron and the Left Behind stuff being so ridiculous folks would wise up. And I was quite wrong.

 

[ktgrok]

2 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Oh good grief. Jim Bakker and wife #2 hawk apocalypse food! He is like a case of herpes, the world just can't shake him!

You know, when I was a kid, I thought this stuff was just so radical that it was only my goofball father and a few others involved. I never thought it was at all popular. But between Rexella still going at it, Gothardism still going strong, Bakker back in force pedaling crap, and this mark of the beast vaccine nonsense, I am disheartened to see just how many are making money off this end times stuff. I thought maybe after Kirk Cameron and the Left Behind stuff being so ridiculous folks would wise up. And I was quite wrong.

 

As soon as I heard that Kirk Cameron didn't eat chocolate, I knew not to trust him. 

[Faith-manor]

1 minute ago, ktgrok said:

As soon as I heard that Kirk Cameron didn't eat chocolate, I knew not to trust him. 

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 Brilliant!

[bolt.]

22 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Along with that, everyone likes to imagine that if they live in the end times, they imagine that they'll be a survivor or important instead of one of the millions (billions?) of "red-shirt" folks who die immediately. 

Man, I want to die immediately. If there's going to be an apocalypse, I don't want to go to the trouble of living though the suffering. One one-way ticket to peaceful rest and eventual resurrection please!

[katilac]

10 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

Hobby Lobby didn't have bar codes until a few years back-they had four digit code numbers on the labels, and the clerks would key them in. 

The Hobby Lobby here still keys stuff in, no scanners. 

1 hour ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

 I think Medjugorje is pretty out of fashion in Catholic circles today. 

It's definitely not the hot topic and destination it used to be, but we still have at least one local company that organizes multiple group trips every year (New Orleans area). 

It was interesting in the 80s and 90s for sure. So many local people who had never traveled further than 3 hours to the Alabama beaches were suddenly winging their way to a country they  gave no thought to before. I think they spend all their time at the apparition site, so I don't know how much of a truly foreign destination it is. 

[Pam in CT]

re uneasiness with the term "progressive"

3 hours ago, J-rap said:

That's too bad...    

I'll admit that even though my church and its theology would certainly be called progressive by some, I've never really cared for the term "progressive" as a church category because that often seems to have a stereotype among conservative evangelicals that it's moving away from the Gospel and with a liberal Democrat bent.

Whereas of course I personally believe those types of churches are (hopefully) moving closer to the Gospel message.  Maybe we just need to change the word "progressive" to something else!

Until pretty recently I was uneasy with the label as well. It carries a lot of baggage, much of it -- as you suggest -- piled on by its opponents rather than those who actually self-identify as such.

FWIW, I got over my own uneasiness by focusing on the root "progress." I believe progress is both desirable, and possible. I believe we can do better, individually and collectively. And that is what the term now means to me. I don't much care what associations other folks, particularly opponents of their construction of what "it" means, have with it.

 

re majority/ minority status of a particular faith tradition

2 hours ago, regentrude said:

...I also think it is very beneficial for a religion not to be a majority force. It keeps humility.

That is a very interesting insight.  What do you mean by "humility"?

 

re soap opera / cliffhangers / vague on details / high on adrenaline

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

Yup - it was always hints, not actual predictions. You got the feeling that you'd find out the real truth in the next episode....every time. It was like a soap opera that way - constant cliff hangers and drama but a decade later the plot is still the same. 

Sounds like Q.

[Faith-manor]

37 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

re uneasiness with the term "progressive"

Until pretty recently I was uneasy with the label as well. It carries a lot of baggage, much of it -- as you suggest -- piled on by its opponents rather than those who actually self-identify as such.

FWIW, I got over my own uneasiness by focusing on the root "progress." I believe progress is both desirable, and possible. I believe we can do better, individually and collectively. And that is what the term now means to me. I don't much care what associations other folks, particularly opponents of their construction of what "it" means, have with it.

 

re majority/ minority status of a particular faith tradition

That is a very interesting insight.  What do you mean by "humility"?

 

re soap opera / cliffhangers / vague on details / high on adrenaline

Sounds like Q.

Rexella Van Imperial as Q? Ya, I like it. Can totally see that! 😁

[gardenmom5]

On 5/15/2021 at 8:39 AM, lulalu said:

  People are worried. When things are out of control, it is easier to worry. This justifies the fear and uneasiness they are feeling to all the change. 

It's also easier to imagine shadows in the dark are really monsters intent on eating you.

Uncertainty can be a torture in itself.

On 5/15/2021 at 9:17 AM, DoraBora said:

The current "out of control" situation seems like a walk in the park compared to Scriptural descriptions of life in the end times.

yep.  I expect things will get worse.
 

On 5/15/2021 at 10:26 AM, Lady Florida. said:

Wow, I haven't heard mark of the beast stuff since bar codes first showed up. There was a time remembered by those of us of a certain age, when no product had a bar code. Everything had a price sticker and the cashier had to look at the sticker and enter the price in the cash register. When bar codes first came to be, they were only on a few products. As time went on more products had bar codes. At first those people who thought it was the mark of the beast refused to buy anything with a bar code. Eventually we all had no choice and the beast talk just disappeared (kind of like dates for the end of the world just disappear).

All that to say there will always be people who believe weird stuff. The past few years have proven that. Sadly, in this case it affects the rest of us since it just adds to the number of people who won't take the vaccine for totally non-science, non-medical reasons. 

I live in the PNW - so I never heard the bar code stuff until I caught a few minutes of that talk show.  sigh.   

There have always BEEN people who believe crazy stuff.  All that's changed are the details. same old same old . . . 

In India, there was a polio vaccination program village by village.  The local imans told their followers not to vaccinate their children for claiming it was all a plot to harm them/etc. with some equally fearful excuse.   So, the muslim mother's didn't have their children vaccinated, but the Hindu/Shik/Christian mothers did.  It was heartbreaking as then polio came through their village, and the mothers attempting to care for those children who weren't vaccinated due to fear.

On 5/15/2021 at 1:07 PM, Seasider too said:

I’m curious. Was there a similar outcry about the smallpox vaccine in the US in the early 20th century? Did folks then object, thinking that it was the mark of the beast?

 

That's been around since the 18th century.

On 5/15/2021 at 5:53 PM, MercyA said:

Okay, this is COMPLETELY off-topic but I have happy memories of this time. My dad was a grocer. He'd set the price sticker gun on the correct price (using mechanic dials, nothing digital!), hand it to me, and let me price cases of canned green beans, soup, etc. Almost everything in the store had to be priced by hand! And of course the gun would jam, run out of ink, run out of stickers, etc., but it was still great fun. 

I remember when the scanners were put in and I was scared that I'd accidentally look into them and the red laser would scar my eyes forever. 

Good times. 😉 

My mom eventually started shopping at a grocery story that you had to write the price on the item yourself with a black wax pencil.
Even in the 90s, I recall shopping at one very large chain, and someone had mismarked something (badly) with those paper price stickers.  (I took it up to the customer service desk. .  it was in a box of six individual items, and the person put the price for each item as the price for all six.)  Now, they would have come with the UPC code on the box.  I was working retail in the early 2000s, and had to go over a bunch of stock because the stock kid (who priced and put on shelves) had mismarked stuff by quite a bit.  I got to go find all the mistakes.

On 5/15/2021 at 7:20 PM, regentrude said:

Of course I was being sarcastic. It baffles me that this has to be pointed out explicitly 

Gentle reader:   . . . I have seen some outrageous over the top comments that were hilarious, and was about to congratulate the writer on their satire . . . . . Until I realized they were serious.

That's why sometimes sarc tags are required.

[J-rap]

2 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

re uneasiness with the term "progressive"

Until pretty recently I was uneasy with the label as well. It carries a lot of baggage, much of it -- as you suggest -- piled on by its opponents rather than those who actually self-identify as such.

FWIW, I got over my own uneasiness by focusing on the root "progress." I believe progress is both desirable, and possible. I believe we can do better, individually and collectively. And that is what the term now means to me. I don't much care what associations other folks, particularly opponents of their construction of what "it" means, have with it.

 

re majority/ minority status of a particular faith tradition

That is a very interesting insight.  What do you mean by "humility"?

 

re soap opera / cliffhangers / vague on details / high on adrenaline

Sounds like Q.

True, if we focus on "progress" it sounds really admirable!

[regentrude]

2 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

That is a very interesting insight.  What do you mean by "humility"?

When your group is the dominating influence in a culture, it is very easy to assume that you alone are in possession of the truth, that you should  tell others how to live their lives, and that society should function according to your specific values. 

When your group is a minority, or persecuted, you go quietly about your business, follow your practices, and are fully aware that there are other views. You don't go around proselytizing and you don't think your beliefs should receive preferential treatment.

Edited May 17, 2021 by regentrude