Ohio Governor Mike DeWine tests +, edited now -

[saraha]

Today the Governor tested positive with no symptoms before meeting the President. I can't even process what this means.

 

ETA: He, his wife and staff have since tested negative

Edited August 7, 2020 by saraha
Updated news

[saraha]

Like, did he not follow his own protocols and got it, or worse, did he follow all of his own protocols and he got it.

[chiguirre]

5 minutes ago, saraha said:

Like, did he not follow his own protocols and got it, or worse, did he follow all of his own protocols and he got it.

You can follow the protocols and still get Covid. They slow the spread, they don't stop it completely. The idea is to get the R naught below 1.

[mathnerd]

13 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

You can follow the protocols and still get Covid. They slow the spread, they don't stop it completely. The idea is to get the R naught below 1.

This is correct. Following protocols slows the spread of Covid and keeps hospitals from being overwhelmed and thereby ensuring everyone gets treatment.

[MEmama]

What it *means* isn’t that he wasn’t following protocol, but that this is an insidious virus that is easily shared despite best measures. Because he also feels fine, it is yet one more illustration that there a lot of asymptomatic people spreading and sharing it without realising they are carriers.

It *means* we all need to be even more vigilant, and that we should assume that we all might be carriers ourselves, as might be every person we encounter. 
 

It also *means* this country needs to step up testing and contact tracing, not shut it down. His positivity was only caught because he was lucky enough to get tested before meeting with the president. He may never have been tested otherwise, but would have been spreading it to countless people otherwise (assuming no symptoms).

Edited August 6, 2020 by MEmama

[saraha]

Yeah, I guess I know this, but had finally fallen into a state of lowered anxiety about the whole thing, only to open the news on what was already a crummy day to find that one of the people who I thought was doing all the right things is now asymptomatically sick. My dh's phone is blowing up now with family saying "Ha, I told you it was all a conspiracy!!!!"

[saraha]

6 minutes ago, MEmama said:

What it *means* isn’t that he wasn’t following protocol, but that this is an insidious virus that is easily shared despite best measures. Because he also feels fine, it is yet one more illustration that there a lot of asymptomatic people spreading and sharing it with realising they are carriers.

It *means* we all need to be even more vigilant, and that we should assume that we all might be carriers ourselves, as might be every person we encounter. 
 

It also *means* this country needs to step up testing and contact tracing, not shut it down. His positivity was only caught because he was lucky enough to get tested before meeting with the president. He may never have been tested otherwise, but would have been spreading it to countless people otherwise (assuming no symptoms).

I'm not arguing with you by any means, so please don't take it like that, but devil's advocate (haha, which is what I should nickname my inlaws) would suggest that the other "means" is that it is not a big deal, so many people probably have it and aren't sick, and neither will you be. I am having a hard time wrapping my brain around all of the possible implications and how that will affect my behavior going forward.

In an hour I am taking my mil and fil their dinner and I know how that is going to go....

Edited August 6, 2020 by saraha

[MEmama]

1 minute ago, saraha said:

Yeah, I guess I know this, but had finally fallen into a state of lowered anxiety about the whole thing, only to open the news on what was already a crummy day to find that one of the people who I thought was doing all the right things is now asymptomatically sick. My dh's phone is blowing up now with family saying "Ha, I told you it was all a conspiracy!!!!"

I’m sorry. 😞 No one should have to defend science and truth to the profoundly ignorant. 
Watching from afar I’ve been reasonably impressed with DeWines leadership.
May he stay healthy. And may your day get better! 

[MEmama]

2 minutes ago, saraha said:

I'm not arguing with you by any means, so please don't take it like that, but devil's advocate (haha, which is what I should nickname my inlaws) would suggest that the other "means" is that it is not a big deal, so many people probably have it and aren't sick, and neither will you be. I am having a hard time wrapping my brain around all of the possible implications and how that will affect my behavior going forward.

>159,000  Americans have already died. To all the lives lost, all their families and loved ones, and all the people left with life altering chronic health conditions and crippling medical debt as a result of getting sick but not dying, is a very big deal. 😞 

[saraha]

3 minutes ago, MEmama said:

>159,000  Americans have already died. To all the lives lost, all their families and loved ones, and all the people left with life altering chronic health conditions and crippling medical debt as a result of getting sick but not dying, is a very big deal. 😞 

I agree with you, which is why it is even scarier to me that one of the people I have looked towards as a role model in a way is a carrier. I am trying to get my footing with this new information.

[Bootsie]

20 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Many people who have it don't get sick at all. Everyone knows that. There have been tons of documented asymptomatic cases. However, the estimates for asymptomatic cases are, like, 50%, not 90%. 

If the estimate for asymptomatic cases is 50%, what then is a reasonable assumption for how many cases are occurring relative to the number of cases we are counting?  I know that some asymptomatic cases are included in total case count because someone happens to get tested even though they have no symptoms.  Would it be that case counts are about double of what the number of cases reported are?  

 

[Ali in OR]

1 hour ago, saraha said:

I agree with you, which is why it is even scarier to me that one of the people I have looked towards as a role model in a way is a carrier. I am trying to get my footing with this new information.

I'm guessing that in his role, he is going to have more opportunity for exposure than I will sitting around the house most of the time. He can take all precautions and I can take all precautions and I probably have a better chance of avoiding it than he does.

[saraha]

48 minutes ago, kand said:

I’m so confused. What conspiracy do they think it proves for DeWine to be sick now? I literally can’t figure that out.

That masks mandates are seeing who in the general public are easily led/controlled

That masks don't work

That Democrats infected the Governor to institute stronger lockdowns

[alisoncooks]

1 minute ago, kand said:

Well. That’s certainly interesting. Can someone explain again what benefit the Democrats would have from locking down? So far I can’t see any benefits at all other than reducing the spread of COVID-19. Otherwise, all these mitigation measures generally suck for everyone, regardless of their politics.

One thing I've recently heard:  lockdowns = everyone will have to Mail-in votes in Nov. = easier voter fraud/throwing the election/Trump out of office. 

Obviously democrats must be playing the long game. 😉

[prairiewindmomma]

No, masks aren't 100%.....but they are certainly better than going unmasked.

It's like having unprotected sex.  You can engage in relations daily month after month and you're much more likely to fall pregnant than someone who uses condoms but accidentally has one breaks.  It's about risk reduction rather than risk elimination.  We all know someone who fell pregnant unexpectedly while using birth control, but we know many more people who didn't become pregnant in a given year despite both partners being fertile because they used birth control.

A family friend died this week.  He only went out for medical care, and then only masked. Still caught it and died. Sometimes you do the best you can do and it still isn't enough.  That doesn't mean that you should take no precautions.  

 

[Spryte]

19 minutes ago, saraha said:

That masks mandates are seeing who in the general public are easily led/controlled

That masks don't work

That Democrats infected the Governor to institute stronger lockdowns

 

Controlled to what end?  Do they ever elaborate?

That masks don’t work, and we will all get it anyway?  Is that the point?

There’s a level of pessimism throughout these trains of thought that always disturbs me.

I’m sorry that anyone is testing positive for this.  

[prairiewindmomma]

5 minutes ago, alisoncooks said:

One thing I've recently heard:  lockdowns = everyone will have to Mail-in votes in Nov. = easier voter fraud/throwing the election/Trump out of office. 

Obviously democrats must be playing the long game. 😉

Utah, a Republican state, has had voting by mail for years.....no evidence of widespread fraud.  Washington, Oregon, and a number of other states have had voting by mail for years with no evidence of widespread fraud. They do matching of signatures to known state id (like driver's licenses). They are actually LESS likely to be hacked than some of the machines in inperson voting that provide no record of voting. 

 

[mathnerd]

23 minutes ago, saraha said:

That masks mandates are seeing who in the general public are easily led/controlled

That masks don't work

That Democrats infected the Governor to institute stronger lockdowns

In my state (a Blue state which has been hard hit), the message was always that we should wear masks, go into lockdowns so that all of us do not catch the infection at the same time - imagine if 20 million people in one state needed urgent care, hospitalization or ICU admissions in the same month. There will be people lying down in the reception areas and parking lots hooked on to IV's because there is no space in the hospitals (this actually happened in a south american country).

[saraha]

5 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

No, masks aren't 100%.....but they are certainly better than going unmasked.

It's like having unprotected sex.  You can engage in relations daily month after month and you're much more likely to fall pregnant than someone who uses condoms but accidentally has one breaks.  It's about risk reduction rather than risk elimination.  We all know someone who fell pregnant unexpectedly while using birth control, but we know many more people who didn't become pregnant in a given year despite both partners being fertile because they used birth control.

A family friend died this week.  He only went out for medical care, and then only masked. Still caught it and died. Sometimes you do the best you can do and it still isn't enough.  That doesn't mean that you should take no precautions.  

 

I am sorry about your friend. That he was trying to be so careful must just add salt to the wound

[saraha]

I am certain that compliance with our state mask mandate just went completely out the window. Tomorrow is going to stink for my two dds at work since they work in a grocery store and are required to mask. They already have to hear people complain all day about masks...

[cintinative]

30 minutes ago, saraha said:

That masks mandates are seeing who in the general public are easily led/controlled

That masks don't work

That Democrats infected the Governor to institute stronger lockdowns

 

Go on the Governor's FB page and you will see #2 in full display in comments under his announcement of testing positive.  Le sigh.

[saraha]

I saw that. Within minutes of the announcement he had thousands of comments.

When thinking about #3 I keep picturing someone sneaking in and breathing on his water bottle 😆

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by saraha

[prairiewindmomma]

I'm still going to my necessary medical appointments, fwiw.  I've been trying to talk my primary care dr into running a drive-through clinic for influenza shots this fall.  I'm ok going in to an office (they have VERY strict distancing guidelines in the office and they are running HEPA filters in each room), but I know a lot of people are hesitant.

[kbutton]

27 minutes ago, saraha said:

I am certain that compliance with our state mask mandate just went completely out the window. Tomorrow is going to stink for my two dds at work since they work in a grocery store and are required to mask. They already have to hear people complain all day about masks...

I really hope not, but you're probably right. One of the counties near me just went from red back to orange--it would be nice if it stays that way. 

[EmseB]

1 hour ago, kand said:

Well. That’s certainly interesting. Can someone explain again what benefit the Democrats would have from locking down? So far I can’t see any benefits at all other than reducing the spread of COVID-19. Otherwise, all these mitigation measures generally suck for everyone, regardless of their politics.

The general idea is that a bad economy is bad for the incumbent. A v-shaped recovery is good for the incumbent.

[TCB]

4 minutes ago, EmseB said:

The general idea is that a bad economy is bad for the incumbent. A v-shaped recovery is good for the incumbent.

Isn't a bad economy bad for everyone else too, and a v-shaped recovery good for everyone else too? I sort of get what they're talking about with this conspiracy but it still seems crazy, especially when you have to explain why the rest of the world is joining in and wrecking their economies just to cause trouble for Trump.

ETA Hopefully DeWine wearing a mask will mean that his viral load was lower so he won't get as sick.

Edited August 6, 2020 by TCB

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, saraha said:

I am certain that compliance with our state mask mandate just went completely out the window. Tomorrow is going to stink for my two dds at work since they work in a grocery store and are required to mask. They already have to hear people complain all day about masks...

I hear this all the time and it still just makes NO SENSE to me whatsoever. Seriously, I could jump for joy that we got the mask mandate early, it has never relented (though it has been tightened even more) and that I encounter mask refusers virtually never. I have seen it one time in a store and my dd saw it one time outside a store. That’s it. Literally everyone I encounter everywhere is masked. Thank the gods. 

[PrincessMommy]

2 hours ago, MEmama said:

What it *means* isn’t that he wasn’t following protocol, but that this is an insidious virus that is easily shared despite best measures. Because he also feels fine, it is yet one more illustration that there a lot of asymptomatic people spreading and sharing it without realising they are carriers.

It *means* we all need to be even more vigilant, and that we should assume that we all might be carriers ourselves, as might be every person we encounter. 
 

It also *means* this country needs to step up testing and contact tracing, not shut it down. His positivity was only caught because he was lucky enough to get tested before meeting with the president. He may never have been tested otherwise, but would have been spreading it to countless people otherwise (assuming no symptoms).

I'm not sure that is entirely correct.  My udnerstanding is that it is *less* likely they are spreading it.  Do we know he spread it to someone else?  Has anyone said how he got it?  He also may  be presymptomatic...only time will tell. 

[PrincessMommy]

53 minutes ago, saraha said:

I am certain that compliance with our state mask mandate just went completely out the window. Tomorrow is going to stink for my two dds at work since they work in a grocery store and are required to mask. They already have to hear people complain all day about masks...

Why?  That doesn't make sense.

[EmseB]

5 minutes ago, TCB said:

Isn't a bad economy bad for everyone else too, and a v-shaped recovery good for everyone else too? I sort of get what they're talking about with this conspiracy but it still seems crazy, especially when you have to explain why the rest of the world is joining in and wrecking their economies just to cause trouble for Trump.

ETA Hopefully DeWine wearing a mask will mean that his viral load was lower so he won't get as sick.

Yes, but if you want to run on your recovery plan going well, it has to be going well. Change is easier if things are not going well. The incumbent doesn't want things to be going downhill when they are up for reelection, generally speaking. Even if things are bad but on the upswing that is better for the person already in office. Of course a good recovery is good for everyone, but in terms of an election it is better for an incumbent than someone asking for change in the middle of an upward trend.

I'm not commenting on any conspiracy aspects, these are general truths for most political battles.

[Pawz4me]

1 hour ago, alisoncooks said:

One thing I've recently heard:  lockdowns = everyone will have to Mail-in votes in Nov. = easier voter fraud/throwing the election/Trump out of office. 

Obviously democrats must be playing the long game. 😉

And I can't for the life of me figure that one out. Doesn't everyone pretty much agree that the safest ballots are paper and hand marked? Which is exactly what mail in ballots are. And the sheer logistics of (for example) someone attempting to print fake ballots or something similar boggles the mind. I live in a smallish, partially suburban/partially rural county and I figure someone would have to print at least six different ballots just for my county, plus get the names and identifying info (like last four digits of SSN) to match, etc. The idea that something like that could be done on a large scale baffles me.

[Innisfree]

11 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

The idea that something like that could be done on a large scale baffles me.

I think people are hearing the aforementioned conspiracy theories, and then repeating them, without understanding all the safeguards which are built into the system, or thinking the whole process through for themselves. The ideas just fit into their preexisting ideas and so are registered as "likely to be true" without any critical thought at all.

Edited August 6, 2020 by Innisfree
Autocorrect wasn't correct

[MEmama]

1 hour ago, kand said:

I’m sorry, that is so sad. And worrisome too, that even with the only exposure being in a medical setting, someone may catch it. I’ve been putting off overdue blood work for that reason (it’s non urgent, otherwise I would go), and I expect I will continue to until our numbers are lower here. I wish dentists and labs and pediatricians would run some outdoor clinics like they do when they run missions to third world countries. I would get my blood work if I could do it outside, and I’d feel much better about taking my kids in for vaccines if they could do them outside. The dentist even more so, for sure.

A friend just went in for routine blood work and the nurse came out to the parking lot and took her blood while she stayed in the car! Brilliant! 

[Pen]

2 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

No, masks aren't 100%.....but they are certainly better than going unmasked.

It's like having unprotected sex.  You can engage in relations daily month after month and you're much more likely to fall pregnant than someone who uses condoms but accidentally has one breaks.  It's about risk reduction rather than risk elimination.  We all know someone who fell pregnant unexpectedly while using birth control, but we know many more people who didn't become pregnant in a given year despite both partners being fertile because they used birth control.

A family friend died this week.  He only went out for medical care, and then only masked. Still caught it and died. Sometimes you do the best you can do and it still isn't enough.  That doesn't mean that you should take no precautions.  

 

 

I am sorry for your loss. 

[Bootsie]

3 hours ago, square_25 said:

We're vastly undercounting. I'd guess a factor of 4 or so, assuming an IFR of 0.6% and backtracking from deaths. 

The reason that I ask, is the event planning guide https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu/ out of Georgia Tech makes a basic assumption that the case number is 10 times what is being reported.  You can change the model to assume that multiple is only 5 times, which can make a big difference in the probability of one person in a certain size group being positive.  

If the factor is 4, do you think most of the missed cases are people who lack access to testing, people who don't want to be tested, or people who are asymptomatic cases who never think to get tested?  

[PeterPan]

5 hours ago, saraha said:

Like, did he not follow his own protocols and got it, or worse, did he follow all of his own protocols and he got it.

It's probably the latter. And who knows. I'm not sure why it's controversial to say masks don't work. If your goal is to keep YOURSELF safe, you have no data to back up your homemade masks. He was wearing homemade, like everyone else. The only claim on masking is that it's altruistic and might cut down your sharing with others. In reality, we want to be safe and want the masks to keep us safe. 

If he had wanted a mask to keep himself safe, he could have gotten something with data. He still might have gotten it. He probably had a lot of micro exposures.

Personally, I'm heartbroken for him and hope it turns out ok. I'm with you that it was very jarring and sad. So I'll say again what I said on the boards months ago. If our leaders REALLY wanted masking to work they'd stop the gaiters and hodgepodge going on and get some effective standards. Disney is doing it. Not as far as it could go, but they're reflecting that this whole cover yourself with anything and call it good enough isn't cutting the mustard.

 

 

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, kdsuomi said:

 

Not necessarily if the government wants people dependent on it.

 

The conspiracy theorists among us believe this administration wants people to be dependent on gov't so as to ensure another term? Oh, the irony.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Sneezyone

[TCB]

And, though you say it a million times it doesn’t seem to sink in, him wearing a mask protects others more than it does him, so it depends on the behavior of those around him. So not really ammunition for the masks don’t work group.

[Pen]

 

I hope DdeWine will continue to feel okay.

 

Iirc He’s of an age that could have a severe case.  

 

Perhaps his mask has helped to reduce the viral load he got so that he has been  (at least so far) in the group who test positive without feeling sick.

 

[Tenaj]

It was just announced that his second (non-rapid) test came back negative.

[Pen]

38 minutes ago, JanOH said:

It was just announced that his second (non-rapid) test came back negative.

 

I wonder which is correct. 

[PeterPan]

51 minutes ago, kand said:

That’s pretty interesting. It seems backwards from what I’d expect. I would have thought the rapid antigen test might be negative when the PCR was positive, but not the other way around. I’ll be curious to hear what comes of this. 

Well I'm guessing he'll stay home over the weekend, retest, and let it sort out.

[EmseB]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

I wonder which is correct. 

Seems like the pcr came back negative twice. Twitter thread explains.

 

[JennyD]

4 hours ago, PeterPan said:

leaders REALLY wanted masking to work they'd stop the gaiters and hodgepodge going on and get some effective standards. Disney is doing it. Not as far as it could go, but they're reflecting that this whole cover yourself with anything and call it good enough isn't cutting the mustard.

 

Yes, the fact that the US federal government has not coordinated mass production of N95 masks ....well, I can't say it's shocking, because at this point it's not, but it is certainly remarkable.

Separately, it is still strange to me that by this point the free market has not taken up at least some of this slack.  I'm not in the US right now so quite possibly I'm missing some of what's going on, but I would have thought that six months into a global pandemic there would be tons of companies selling masks and other PPE, each advertising their own effectiveness.  I keep thinking about those commercials for paper towels that show how one brand mops the spill right up while the other brand doesn't.    I would have thought that American airwaves would be positively deluged with ads showing droplet spread and how one manufacturer's mask protects more than another's.  

I understand that the shortage of PPE for health care workers has complicated both the messaging and presumably the market dynamics from the beginning, but I still find the current situation baffling.  

Edited August 7, 2020 by JennyD

[EmseB]

31 minutes ago, JennyD said:

 

Yes, the fact that the US federal government has not coordinated mass production of N95 masks ....well, I can't say it's shocking, because at this point it's not, but it is certainly remarkable.

Separately, it is still strange to me that by this point the free market has not taken up at least some of this slack.  I'm not in the US right now so quite possibly I'm missing some of what's going on, but I would have thought that six months into a global pandemic there would be tons of companies selling masks and other PPE, each advertising their own effectiveness.  I keep thinking about those commercials for paper towels that show how one brand mops the spill right up while the other brand doesn't.    I would have thought that American airwaves would be positively deluged with ads showing droplet spread and how one manufacturer's mask protects more than another's.  

I understand that the shortage of PPE for health care workers has complicated both the messaging and presumably the market dynamics from the beginning, but I still find the current situation baffling.  

I am getting tons of ads for masks in my social feeds. Every company I know of that even remotely works with fabric is making and selling masks. And advertising them.

But regulations in the US pretty much prohibit the types of claims you're talking about in advertising. I mean, the ads I see show the blowing out the lighter test or other things, but they can't promise effectiveness against a virus or more protection than another company unless they go through a butt ton of testing. Paper towel ads and diapers show generic "leading competitors". For companies making masks, there isn't really such a thing. But the market is responding to a need for masks.

Also, afaik, the government has contracted with 3m and Honeywell (?) to ramp up n95 production in the states, but those masks also have to pass even more rigorous testing. Ones we and other countries have gotten from China after they ramped up production have been shown in various places to be below standards. 

Edited August 7, 2020 by EmseB

[PeterPan]

35 minutes ago, JennyD said:

there would be tons of companies selling masks

There are.

In our state, where masking is mandated, many or most people are wearing homemade masks. 

[Pen]

37 minutes ago, JennyD said:

 

Yes, the fact that the US federal government has not coordinated mass production of N95 masks ....well, I can't say it's shocking, because at this point it's not, but it is certainly remarkable.

Separately, it is still strange to me that by this point the free market has not taken up at least some of this slack.  I'm not in the US right now so quite possibly I'm missing some of what's going on, but I would have thought that six months into a global pandemic there would be tons of companies selling masks and other PPE, each advertising their own effectiveness.  I keep thinking about those commercials for paper towels that show how one brand mops the spill right up while the other brand doesn't.    I would have thought that American airwaves would be positively deluged with ads showing droplet spread and how one manufacturer's mask protects more than another's.  

I understand that the shortage of PPE for health care workers has complicated both the messaging and presumably the market dynamics from the beginning, but I still find the current situation baffling.  

 

There *are* tons of masks being sold now. Also face shields.  New versions  of masks being invented...

[JennyD]

 

14 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

There are.

In our state, where masking is mandated, many or most people are wearing homemade masks. 

 

Are people wearing the homemade masks because they're more comfortable or because the ones being marketed are expensive?  Or is the thought that the cloth ones actually work better?  I keep seeing photos of people in bandanas.

(Where I am masks have been mandated since April.  There's never been a shortage, though. so most people usually wear surgical masks, which you can buy in large quantities at the grocery store or the pharmacy.)

[Shoeless]

15 minutes ago, JennyD said:

Are people wearing the homemade masks because they're more comfortable or because the ones being marketed are expensive?  Or is the thought that the cloth ones actually work better?  I keep seeing photos of people in bandanas.

(Where I am masks have been mandated since April.  There's never been a shortage, though. so most people usually wear surgical masks, which you can buy in large quantities at the grocery store or the pharmacy.)

 

I can't say why others are wearing homemade masks, but I am wearing them because I made them and feel better with a product I made than the "Made in China" ones I see available here. I've seen masks at the store for $3-5 US dollars, so they aren't expensive.

The cloth masks I made have 2 layers of cotton, 2 layers of interfacing, and tie in the back. I can adjust them to get a snug fit around my nose and there are no gaps. 

Edited August 7, 2020 by MissLemon

[Amira]

This is one reason why someone might prefer to make their own masks.  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/19/world/asia/china-mask-forced-labor.html 

Actually, all our masks have come from a local group of refugee women. They cost more than the ones I can buy at stores here, but they last longer and the women need the income right now.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Amira