OK Governor has Covid

[Scarlett]

Also the numbers here keep going up.  993 yesterday.  1075 today.

I know that is nothing compared to Florida, but I think it is just going to keep going up.

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Arctic Mama said:

What are your deaths and hospitalizations at there?

561 currently hospitalized.  432 deaths.  8.6% two week positive rate.  

[Jaybee]

I saw he is the first state governor in the U.S. to test positive.

[Spy Car]

And he doesn't seem to think people need to wear masks.

Bill

[Scarlett]

21 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

And he doesn't seem to think people need to wear masks.

Bill

I know right.  Crazy.  

[Spy Car]

15 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I know right.  Crazy.  

Indeed.

Bill

[OH_Homeschooler]

15 hours ago, Spy Car said:

And he doesn't seem to think people need to wear masks.

Bill

 

One can only hope that he has symptoms that make him extremely, let's say "uncomfortable," so that he will understand that this is a big deal and issue a mandate.

[EmseB]

37 minutes ago, OH_Homeschooler said:

 

One can only hope that he has symptoms that make him extremely, let's say "uncomfortable," so that he will understand that this is a big deal and issue a mandate.

Wishing severe illness on those who don't agree with mandating masks.

[OH_Homeschooler]

14 minutes ago, EmseB said:

Wishing severe illness on those who don't agree with mandating masks.

 

What's your point? That I'm a terrible person? 

If it prevents others from suffering and it saves lives I absolutely stand by what I wrote. 

Edited July 16, 2020 by OH_Homeschooler

[EmseB]

31 minutes ago, OH_Homeschooler said:

 

What's your point? That I'm a terrible person? 

If it prevents others from suffering and it saves lives I absolutely stand by what I wrote. 

Just putting it out there that it is acceptable to wish severe illness on people who don't think mask mandates are the way to go. Do you really think wishing suffering on him will prevent others from suffering or save lives? Do you think everyone who is pro-mask is in favor of state mandates? 

I am not going to change your mind, I get it. I am finding the longer this goes on the more vitriolic people are getting about their positions, to include wishing covid on their political adversaries.

[ktgrok]

3 minutes ago, EmseB said:

Just putting it out there that it is acceptable to wish severe illness on people who don't think mask mandates are the way to go. Do you really think wishing suffering on him will prevent others from suffering or save lives? Do you think everyone who is pro-mask is in favor of state mandates? 

I am not going to change your mind, I get it. I am finding the longer this goes on the more vitriolic people are getting about their positions, to include wishing covid on their political adversaries.

No one wished Covid on him - he already has it. No one wished death on him, or a ventilator. She said she hopes he's uncomfortable enough to consider putting in place regulations that could help save lives. Not to punish him, or wish ill on him, but to save the lives of others. That's not the same thing as wishing covid on him. 

And you can THINK mandates are not the way to go, but in actual fact, mandates are the only thing that has worked in my area, to get people to mask. About 10 percent were wearing masks, not 95% are. Because they have to. If people would do it out of the goodness of their heart, no one would be suggesting mandates and the governor himself might not be ill right now. 

[OH_Homeschooler]

4 minutes ago, EmseB said:

Just putting it out there that it is acceptable to wish severe illness on people who don't think mask mandates are the way to go. Do you really think wishing suffering on him will prevent others from suffering or save lives? Do you think everyone who is pro-mask is in favor of state mandates? 

I am not going to change your mind, I get it. I am finding the longer this goes on the more vitriolic people are getting about their positions, to include wishing covid on their political adversaries.

 

Because he is a governor and can actually influence policy (create policy). He said this morning he is experiencing minor aches, and he still has decided not to issue a mandate. So if it gets more uncomfortable (the actual word I used) for him, he might change his mind. If he mandates mask wearing, more people would wear masks, less people would get sick, and less people would die. 

This has nothing to do with vitriol or wishing Covid on adversaries. It has everything to do with preventing mass suffering. I'm sorry if you can't see that distinction.

[EmseB]

"I'm not wishing covid on him, just hoping he suffers now that he has it."

Wishing suffering on others to promote compassion and preventing suffering, lol, yes, it is me that can't understand the distinction.

Edited July 16, 2020 by EmseB

[MEmama]

15 minutes ago, EmseB said:

Just putting it out there that it is acceptable to wish severe illness on people who don't think mask mandates are the way to go. Do you really think wishing suffering on him will prevent others from suffering or save lives? Do you think everyone who is pro-mask is in favor of state mandates? 

I am not going to change your mind, I get it. I am finding the longer this goes on the more vitriolic people are getting about their positions, to include wishing covid on their political adversaries.

Well, let’s see. England was on the same trajectory as the US until Boris Johnson—who had up until that point been a denier, remember— became gravely ill with Covid. He immediately changed his mind. And yes, his revised policy has certainly saved countless lives.

Let's also not forget that several representatives of  one political party in this country have expressed insistence that an entire generation ought to die in order to save the economy. That they would be thrilled to, in fact! And currently we have politicians of a certain stripe who don’t mind sending our nations children into a situation none of them would dare subject themselves to. 
 

I'm not advocating for anyone to get sick or die, mind you. I want to make that very clear. I’d just like it if our nations “leaders” felt the same.

Edited July 16, 2020 by MEmama

[OH_Homeschooler]

3 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

 

She is definitely wishing that he has a more severe time of it than others, though, and that's absolutely appalling. I get that many people here think it's a perfectly fine thing to wish upon others, but it honestly does show true colors. 

 

Wow, you should all review some ethics. This is one single person. I'm not wishing death on him, although more than 138,000 Americans HAVE died. I'm merely wanting him, and all these other southern governors with skyrocketing Covid rates, to take this seriously so we don't have to see another 138,000 people die.

Unfortunately, some people are so extremely selfish and unable to see beyond their own needs that it does take a some personal inconvenience to effect change.

[Corraleno]

Social media is full of posts from people who were anti-mask and thought CV19 was no big deal, who then caught it and posted about how they wish they had understood just how bad it really is, and they urge people to take it seriously, wear masks, stay home, etc. Some people are perfectly willing to sacrifice other people and other families, and will never change their minds unless they themselves are affected.

The idea that hoping Stitt's experience with Covid is a wake-up call that makes him take action that will save lives is pearl-clutchingly horrible and unethical, but the fact that the man has been walking around without a mask, potentially infecting other people, and refusing to take one of the few actions he can to save lives in a state where cases are exploding, is perfectly ethical and just a matter of "personal choice" is... well, I'd say it's a joke, except people are dying and it's not funny at all. 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Corraleno

[kokotg]

And let's not forget that this is the guy who tweeted a picture of himself at a crowded restaurant back in March, encouraging everyone to get out there and have a great time. People who have power and influence and used it to tell people the virus was no big deal literally caused people to die by doing so. "Suffering" in this case means having a tough week of feeling crappy and lying in bed watching TV.

[ktgrok]

27 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

 

She is definitely wishing that he has a more severe time of it than others, though, and that's absolutely appalling. I get that many people here think it's a perfectly fine thing to wish upon others, but it honestly does show true colors. 

Yes, I'd like him to be uncomfortable enough that he thinks helping others avoid it is a priority. I would think one wouldn't have to be that sick to have that realization, but whatever. 

But yeah, I will flat out say, that if one person having a bad cough and body aches would save hundreds of lives, I'm okay with that, ethically. Hell, I'll volunteer for that myself, if there was a way that would work. 

[TCB]

1 hour ago, EmseB said:

Wishing severe illness on those who don't agree with mandating masks.

I didn’t take it that way. He has the ability to influence the outcome for many and I interpreted it as hoping he would influence for good. I think you may be putting words in her mouth.

[OH_Homeschooler]

21 minutes ago, TCB said:

I didn’t take it that way. He has the ability to influence the outcome for many and I interpreted it as hoping he would influence for good. I think you may be putting words in her mouth.

 

Yes, she put words in my mouth several times. A similar thing happened a couple months ago. No matter how many different ways I explained something, she interpreted it incorrectly over and over again to make me look like this evil person. I blocked her then, but for some reason unblocked her. I won't make that mistake again. 

But I'm the one with vitriol and unable to see a different perspective. 🙄

Edited July 16, 2020 by OH_Homeschooler

[EmseB]

Also, I would like to say without having gone through additional replies that there was a question near the beginning as to whether or not someone is a terrible person for wishing suffering on another human they disagree with on a certain issue like masking, where they think the issue is of such import that the suffering of one would lead to the greater good because it would change the mind of the one if they experienced such suffering.

I wanted to express that I don't think the person wishing suffering is any more of a terrible person than I am. I see injustice from my perspective and I am guilty of wishing suffering on those who commit it, even if only in my thoughts. So I most likely have a different view on how this plays out philosophically and theologically throughout my life, but I think in general I was not trying to point out anyone's terrible-ness specifically, but rather, as soon as we start wishing suffering on others in order to somehow be compassionate in our own minds we run into quite a lot of trouble, or at least the potential for justifying quite a lot of harm is taking root in our own minds, if not our actions.

[EmseB]

I quoted the posts I was responding to. The original post I responded to said this:

One can only hope that he has symptoms that make him extremely, let's say "uncomfortable," so that he will understand 

[MEmama]

20 minutes ago, OH_Homeschooler said:

 

Yes, she put words in my mouth several times. A similar thing happened a couple months ago. No matter how many different ways I explained something, she interpreted it incorrectly over and over again to make me look like this evil person. I blocked her then, but for some reason unblocked her. I won't make that mistake again. 

But I'm the one with vitriol and unable to see a different perspective. 🙄

I’ve recently blocked my first poster.

One of my favorite things about this board is its diverse viewpoints and how much we all learn from each other. But I don’t have room in my life for ugliness or hatred so I was thrilled when I finally discovered the peace of mind that an anonymous blocking can create. 
 

eta To be clear, I am not referring to anyone in this conversation as being ugly or hateful.

Edited July 16, 2020 by MEmama

[Betty13]

not wishing anyone ever be ill with this covid or anything else, but I'm totally confused when people stand for not wearing masks and like almost living a normal life I want my life and health be respected by others as I usually do with the lives of other people surrounding me...

[hippiemamato3]

1 hour ago, kdsuomi said:

 

She is definitely wishing that he has a more severe time of it than others, though, and that's absolutely appalling. I get that many people here think it's a perfectly fine thing to wish upon others, but it honestly does show true colors. 

I truly think that she only meant that if he experienced a moderately severe case of Covid that he'd be more likely to encourage others to use masks and take precautions. If he gets a mild case and goes to tell his constituents that it's no big deal - more people are going to die. 

[Pawz4me]

15 minutes ago, Betty13 said:

not wishing anyone ever be ill with this covid or anything else, but I'm totally confused when people stand for not wearing masks and like almost living a normal life I want my life and health be respected by others as I usually do with the lives of other people surrounding me...

Yes. I try not to wish ill on anyone, but . . when people refuse to mask I do feel like they're essentially wishing ill on DH, me and everyone else who is at higher risk. And yes, we do stay home 99 percent of the time. But sometimes we do HAVE to go out.

I think there's a whole lot of cognitive dissonance going on nowadays.

[OH_Homeschooler]

4 minutes ago, hippiemamato3 said:

I truly think that she only meant that if he experienced a moderately severe case of Covid that he'd be more likely to encourage others to use masks and take precautions. If he gets a mild case and goes to tell his constituents that it's no big deal - more people are going to die. 

 

Yup, but she apparently has a very black or white thinking style, and she's decided I'm on the dark side. Thanks for the support. 

[Alte Veste Academy]

Last night on the news, a pulmonologist in a hospital flooded with COVID cases broke down crying. The people treating these victims of an inept government, the people who are holding the hands of the scared and dying, the people who are begging us all to wear masks so that the needless sickness and dying can stop are being traumatized day after day and will continue to be because selfish, conspiracy-theory believing, anti-science, love-your-fellow-man-pretending (because terms and conditions may apply, obviously) citizens refuse to wear masks, and their fearless leaders *snort* don’t have enough empathy and respect for science to do this one tiny thing that has worked in countless other countries because of *snort* exceptionalism...?

I would say this is a regular ol’ case of karma, but how many people have been struck down who haven’t acted in complete opposition to every common sense recommendation which could have prevented it?

[Alte Veste Academy]

12 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

Yes. I try not to wish ill on anyone, but . . when people refuse to mask I do feel like they're essentially wishing ill on DH, me and everyone else who is at higher risk. And yes, we do stay home 99 percent of the time. But sometimes we do HAVE to go out.

I think there's a whole lot of cognitive dissonance going on nowadays.

Right. Surely he has been briefed that “my mask protects you, and your mask protects me.” So when you are not wearing a mask, you are wishing ill on me. So there’s some ill will on your fellow man.

False outrage. Think about the people he has infected because he ignores all the recommendations.

[Pam in CT]

re acts of comission vs acts of omission

31 minutes ago, Betty13 said:

not wishing anyone ever be ill with this covid or anything else, but I'm totally confused when people stand for not wearing masks and like almost living a normal life I want my life and health be respected by others as I usually do with the lives of other people surrounding me...

 

The line between "wishing ill upon others" vs "indifference to ill befalling upon others because Muh Rights" is thin and porous, in a pandemic.

[mathnerd]

13 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

re acts of comission vs acts of omission

 

The line between "wishing ill upon others" vs "indifference to ill befalling upon others because Muh Rights" is thin and porous, in a pandemic.

Goes beyond indifference: sheer and utter selfishness causing ill to befall upon others. A.K.A. "I don't care" what happens to you and I will continue doing what I want to do.

[Alte Veste Academy]

1 hour ago, Arctic Mama said:

Ah, it’s not that. It’s people being assholes. I’ve lost a lot of respect for a number of posters in recent months. I’m cool with disagreeing and debate, if done in good faith and with respect. This thread is a stellar example of scumbaggery.

Ironically, I completely agree with this post!

[KungFuPanda]

1 hour ago, kdsuomi said:

Wishing ill on others, which has been done numerous times on this board in the last few months, is showing disrespect to people, not necessarily posters on the board. 

I think it shows serious wishful thinking that if enough people learn the hard way, maybe they’ll change their opinions and their followers/supporters can be spared illness or death. 

[ktgrok]

41 minutes ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

I think we actually had someone say they didn’t care if a certain area got hit as hard as Florida is, which kinda sorta sounds like  they don’t care if some people get very sick?

I don't think she meant it that way, seriously. I think she just was beyond being able to think about it. 

[desertflower]

Hey folks,

This seems to be going off topic.  Let's keep it on topic  "OK governor has Covid".

Thanks.

[Scarlett]

It is doubtful the OK gov will issue a mask mandate,  individual cities will have to.  Tulsa signed off on it today, and I believe OKC will be right behind.  Those are the two largest metro areas, with the most people.  I am encouraged that wal mart is requiring masks now....not sure when that starts.  

[Frances]

Just now, Scarlett said:

It is doubtful the OK gov will issue a mask mandate,  individual cities will have to.  Tulsa signed off on it today, and I believe OKC will be right behind.  Those are the two largest metro areas, with the most people.  I am encouraged that wal mart is requiring masks now....not sure when that starts.  

As long as he doesn’t try to block cities from doing it like some other governors, that should be a big help. I find it amusing that some people are all about local control until they don’t like what is done locally. 

[Scarlett]

49 minutes ago, Frances said:

As long as he doesn’t try to block cities from doing it like some other governors, that should be a big help. I find it amusing that some people are all about local control until they don’t like what is done locally. 

He did say he was leaving it to local governments.  I hope that stays true.  

[Tree Frog]

54 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I am encouraged that wal mart is requiring masks now

According to our news, Wal-Mart, Kroger, Best Buy, and Starbucks are all requiring masks in all their stores nationwide now.

Adding more:

• Apple
• Best Buy
• Costco
• CVS (Beginning July 20)
• Dollar Tree
• Family Dollar
• Kohl's (Beginning July 20)
• Kroger (Beginning July 22)
• Marc's (Beginning July 20)
• Menards
• Panera Bread
• Publix (Beginning July 21)
• Sam's Club (Beginning July 20)
• Starbucks
• Target (Beginning August 1)
• Walmart (Beginning July 20)
• Walgreens (Beginning July 20)

Edited July 17, 2020 by wilrunner

[Lady Florida.]

12 hours ago, wilrunner said:

According to our news, Wal-Mart, Kroger, Best Buy, and Starbucks are all requiring masks in all their stores nationwide now.

 

 

• Dollar Tree

Dollar Tree has quietly reversed its mask policy.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachelsandler/2020/07/16/dollar-tree-quietly-reverses-mandatory-mask-policy-after-one-week/#19d13f161771

[Tree Frog]

1 hour ago, Lady Florida. said:

Dollar Tree has quietly reversed its mask policy.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachelsandler/2020/07/16/dollar-tree-quietly-reverses-mandatory-mask-policy-after-one-week/#19d13f161771

I'm sorry to hear that. I understand the concern about violence over the masks in its stores, though I don't understand why the violence is necessary.  Wasn't it Dollar Tree where the security guard was killed over the masks policy? 

[katilac]

13 minutes ago, wilrunner said:

I'm sorry to hear that. I understand the concern about violence over the masks in its stores, though I don't understand why the violence is necessary.  Wasn't it Dollar Tree where the security guard was killed over the masks policy? 

Yes, I just saw that in her link! I had missed that story somehow.

It's nuts, people pulling guns over being asked to mask. Can't you just boycott the store instead? 

[ktgrok]

17 hours ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

 Fine. Then let’s say this poster who’s getting blasted didn’t mean for the Gov to suffer horribly. I tend to think the indifference vs wishing fits in the earlier example. 

 

AGree

[katilac]

35 minutes ago, wilrunner said:

I'm sorry to hear that. I understand the concern about violence over the masks in its stores, though I don't understand why the violence is necessary.  Wasn't it Dollar Tree where the security guard was killed over the masks policy? 

I cannot truly express my dismay that wearing a mask in a pandemic is the issue that has stirred up many Americans, to the point where they are willing to intentionally arrange confrontations (and nasty arguments with unlucky workers), with a disturbingly large number of them willing to brandish firearms over the matter. And apparently some willing to move on to physical violence and murder. 

It's not quite along the lines of folie a deux, as it's not a delusion causing them to act, but is there a phrase for a shared, unreasonable response to the same catalyst? By unreasonable, I am referring to extreme confrontations, threats, physical violence, and the brandishing of guns, not merely being against wearing a mask. 

 

[chiguirre]

3 minutes ago, katilac said:

I cannot truly express my dismay that wearing a mask in a pandemic is the issue that has stirred up many Americans, to the point where they are willing to intentionally arrange confrontations (and nasty arguments with unlucky workers), with a disturbingly large number of them willing to brandish firearms over the matter. And apparently some willing to move on to physical violence and murder. 

It's not quite along the lines of folie a deux, as it's not a delusion causing them to act, but is there a phrase for a shared, unreasonable response to the same catalyst? By unreasonable, I am referring to extreme confrontations, threats, physical violence, and the brandishing of guns, not merely being against wearing a mask. 

 

There is a phrase and a classic essay, too!

Check out Richard Hofstadter's The Paranoid Style in American Politics. Here's the original essay, but he also expanded it into a short book.

https://harpers.org/archive/1964/11/the-paranoid-style-in-american-politics/

[katilac]

1 minute ago, chiguirre said:

There is a phrase and a classic essay, too!

I knew someone would know!

[Pam in CT]

re private companies stepping in to protect their employees where government is unwilling/unable to step in to protect their constituents

15 hours ago, Scarlett said:

It is doubtful the OK gov will issue a mask mandate,  individual cities will have to.  Tulsa signed off on it today, and I believe OKC will be right behind.  Those are the two largest metro areas, with the most people.  I am encouraged that wal mart is requiring masks now....not sure when that starts.  

Yes. If consistently enforced, that will move the mark.

 

And Walmart going early (Costco and Starbucks, and perhaps others, had already announced chain-wide policies) will make it easier for other companies to follow.

14 hours ago, wilrunner said:

According to our news, Wal-Mart, Kroger, Best Buy, and Starbucks are all requiring masks in all their stores nationwide now.

Adding more:

• Apple
• Best Buy
• Costco
• CVS (Beginning July 20)
• Dollar Tree
• Family Dollar
• Kohl's (Beginning July 20)
• Kroger (Beginning July 22)
• Marc's (Beginning July 20)
• Menards
• Panera Bread
• Publix (Beginning July 21)
• Sam's Club (Beginning July 20)
• Starbucks
• Target (Beginning August 1)
• Walmart (Beginning July 20)
• Walgreens (Beginning July 20)

 

[Lady Florida.]

1 hour ago, wilrunner said:

I'm sorry to hear that. I understand the concern about violence over the masks in its stores, though I don't understand why the violence is necessary.  Wasn't it Dollar Tree where the security guard was killed over the masks policy? 

Yes, I believe it was a Dollar Tree but one link I saw said Family Dollar. And I've been thinking about this since all of those store announcements started coming out yesterday. They want to protect their employees and customers by requiring masks but it's a fine line to walk. How far can an employee go in trying to enforce the mask rule without endangering themselves? It's just too shocking that people will go to such lengths to avoid this simple protective measure. It's a rhetorical question but really, WTH is wrong with people? 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, katilac said:

I knew someone would know!

That’s what I love most about the Hive! 

[EmseB]

Just now, kand said:

It seems a massive part of the misunderstanding is the belief that this has something to do with politics. I missed quoting it, but pretty sure it was Emse above that you were responding to that said something about people wishing harm to their political adversaries. It stood out to me that the word “political” was used, because wanting a mask mandate has nothing at all to do with someone’s politics. 

How would it not?? 

I said that because mask mandates and how you view whether or not the government should be able to force people to wear a mask under the penalty of fines or jail is at the very least philosophical, if not outright political. Someone can be all for mask wearing, and wanting as many people to do it as much as possible, and still not be for forcing people to do so or forcing employees and business owners to enforce such a thing or face fines or jail time. Or not wanting to give police the power to enforce such a thing.

So the idea that if someone got uncomfortably sick they would change their principles about such an issue as government powers and use of force seems not good. No good for the one being indifferent to the suffering of someone they disagree with and not good for someone in charge of issuing executive orders to do so based on an uncomfortable or even traumatic personal experience.

The political issue is not mask wearing, IMO, it is mandates and police enforcing mask wearing with fines and jail time. Obviously we can't get into discussing that here, but that is literally the entire issue of mandating masks at all.