Do you think social media allows us to see a person's worse side and what effect is that having on society if so?

[TCB]

I've been thinking a lot about this since the start of the pandemic. I have definitely seen people post things I would have never have believed they would say. I know sometimes people argue that social media just allows a lack of restraint that would normally be present in face to face conversation. But is what we are seeing their true selves or something else? It seems pretty obvious what the effects on communities would be, but I would be interested in discussing this a bit. There's no way to put the genie back in the bottle but what can we do about it? As an individual I can be careful what I post, but what things can we do as a society or community?

Edited June 8, 2020 by TCB

[Sneezyone]

I dunno. I would rather have 5 true friends any day of the week than the kind of transactional, fake friendships that people try to form with me as a military spouse (and typically form online). Facebook helps me separate the two. When they forget we’re still ‘friends’ and post bigoted BS or, as in the case of a recent USNA incident, butt dial their entire social circle and reveal their true selves...I’d rather know than not know who they really are and what they really think. I think people could do with a lot more honesty and a lot less mollycoddling.

Edited June 8, 2020 by Sneezyone

[prairiewindmomma]

I think that people have become more polarized and somewhat divisive in their thinking and speaking generally. I think society has moved that way in general. I watch some of the arguing and yelling on various channels and that just wasn’t something that really happened 15 years ago. (Shock radio was shocking then, iykwim.)

I think that because that behavior and tone has become normalized, we see spillover into behavior. 
 

I think people say things on social media they wouldn’t necessarily say in real life because they are somewhat more conflict avoidant IRL.

[TCB]

4 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I dunno. I would rather have 5 true friends any day of the week than the kind of transactional, fake friendships that people try to form with me as a military spouse and typically form online. Facebook helps me separate the two. When they forget we’re still ‘friends’ and post bigoted BS or, as in the case of a recent USNA incident, butt dial their entire social circle and reveal their true selves...I’d rather know than not know who they really are and what they really think. I think people could do with a lot more honesty and a lot less mollycoddling.

I feel a bit torn though. I really value honesty, but when I'm annoyed or upset I can say things that I don't really mean. Usually, if I'm around people, my manners will prevent me from spewing it out, and once I've calmed down I realize that things aren't really quite how I thought in the heat of the moment. Social media seems to be a way of spewing out the things that we might not say, or even hold to be true, after we've cooled down and reflected. We can always go back and apologize, I guess, but very few seem to.

I agree though, that fewer true honest friends are worth way more than hoards of false ones. Unfortunately for me, if I take out the ones saying crazy stuff from my friend list locally, I have very few left. I guess I don't have a big enough pool of friends.

[TCB]

11 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I think that people have become more polarized and somewhat divisive in their thinking and speaking generally. I think society has moved that way in general. I watch some of the arguing and yelling on various channels and that just wasn’t something that really happened 15 years ago. (Shock radio was shocking then, iykwim.)

I think that because that behavior and tone has become normalized, we see spillover into behavior. 
 

I think people say things on social media they wouldn’t necessarily say in real life because they are somewhat more conflict avoidant IRL.

So over all, when the dust settles, do you think that the outspokenness is more honest and better for society, or do you think restraint and manners are better? I can't decide for sure but now that I'm thinking about it I really feel like I prefer at least a modicum of politeness I think.

[TCB]

5 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I think social media puts different sorts of filters on people, that can seem to shrink or magnify certain parts of a person's personality.  Someone might always have particular thoughts, but they might not be as intense as they seem to be on social media.  Or the reverse might be true, a person might feel very strongly about something, and advocate for it in real life, but not really post much about it on social media for whatever reason.

 

Also though, the internet in general is a place of extremes and very little room for a middle ground.  People, in general, tend to lump others under particular labels and groups, based on a particular thought process, and the internet makes it very easy for others to forget that there are more nuances than that.  It's so easy to boil someone down to the snapshot on the screen, and forget that there's so much more to actual people than that snapshot.  

I do need to remind myself not to do that, not to label so much. For example, our homeschool co-op, I know that usually the people are mostly pleasant to be around, but now that I've seen what they say when riled up I find myself pretty reluctant to be in their company again. I guess the real person is somewhere in the middle there.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Social media encourages sound bites.  And generally sound bites aren't nuanced well thought out things because you just can't get nuance in a short sentence or two.  For example, I find a variety of memes kind of funny but often it's because of the irony present or the presentation - a short meme is not the sum total of what I think on a complex topic.  I could find a contradictory meme funny or pertinent too because it addresses a different side of the same issue or situation.  So if someone were to think that a meme was the sum total of my views just because I "liked" something or shared it or whatever (I'm not on FB so I'm a bit clueless about how that part of it works) they would be wrong. 

[TCB]

3 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Social media encourages sound bites.  And generally sound bites aren't nuanced well thought out things because you just can't get nuance in a short sentence or two.  For example, I find a variety of memes kind of funny but often it's because of the irony present or the presentation - a short meme is not the sum total of what I think on a complex topic.  I could find a contradictory meme funny or pertinent too because it addresses a different side of the same issue or situation.  So if someone were to think that a meme was the sum total of my views just because I "liked" something or shared it or whatever (I'm not on FB so I'm a bit clueless about how that part of it works) they would be wrong. 

It is much shorter blocks of communication for sure. I think FB may be slightly bigger blocks than say Twitter but not sure.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think that social media can also encourage echo chambers.  People often say outrageous things in echo chambers that they wouldn't otherwise because they assume that people know that what they said was hyperbole.  I have seen this in some places in real life and dislike it there too. 

[Jaybee]

The last day or two I have been very saddened by things I have read by friends and acquaintances on Facebook. I've begun to feel very isolated because so many people local to me all seem to have the same mindset about some things that I expected to see more nuance and diversity of opinion. On one hand, not being on FB and seeing those thoughts and opinions would protect me for some of the angst and sadness. On the other hand, it helps me to know I need to be more guarded around people that I assumed would be more like-minded with myself. So it is clarifying in some ways. Even though it saddens me and makes me feel lonely, I think it helps me be more wise in how I interact with people. I do see a lot more polarization of opinions than I ever have before, more echo chambers, more assuming things about 'the other side' than before, and struggle against it in my own mind. I wonder where I fit in all of it, because it isn't in either of the most polarized sides of it. 

[prairiewindmomma]

21 minutes ago, TCB said:

So over all, when the dust settles, do you think that the outspokenness is more honest and better for society, or do you think restraint and manners are better? I can't decide for sure but now that I'm thinking about it I really feel like I prefer at least a modicum of politeness I think.

Honestly, I wish their hearts and minds would become softer, more empathetic, and more full of love for those around them. 
 

I worry about the quiet ones. I know a barking crazy dog is dangerous. It’s the quiet dog that randomly and aggressively bites that can be more dangerous.

[Jaybee]

7 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

Unfortunately, isolation measures have resulted in my seeing parts I didn’t know existed of people I thought I had meaningful relationships with. I’m honestly not sure how to process a lot of it. 

Yes to this. I told dh this weekend that I was feeling overwhelmed with things I had to do that didn't leave me with enough time to "ponder" like I feel I need to.

[rebcoola]

I think it is very hard to show nuance on social media. Than their is propesenity to share other articles, videos etc than articulate your own thoughts. Which is made worse by people not looking into the sources of the material.  It just is not the same as in person discussion.  I have some lovely friends who come across as incredibly tone deaf on SM. 

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, TCB said:

I feel a bit torn though. I really value honesty, but when I'm annoyed or upset I can say things that I don't really mean. Usually, if I'm around people, my manners will prevent me from spewing it out, and once I've calmed down I realize that things aren't really quite how I thought in the heat of the moment. Social media seems to be a way of spewing out the things that we might not say, or even hold to be true, after we've cooled down and reflected. We can always go back and apologize, I guess, but very few seem to.

I agree though, that fewer true honest friends are worth way more than hoards of false ones. Unfortunately for me, if I take out the ones saying crazy stuff from my friend list locally, I have very few left. I guess I don't have a big enough pool of friends.

Speaking in anger is always problematic.  I’ve done it for sure and will probably do so again. The people who truly care will stay and see you through the anger. Eventually, you transition to having people in your life who see your anger and pain for what it is, a reaction to stimulus.

I am often less sharp, while still being direct, on my personal page but the messages about who I am and what I think are still clear.  It’s not really how I say things but what I’m saying that tends to offend (like when I told a woman that I think any man that needs a same sex chaperone to perform his official chaplain duties on AD isn’t one I’d want to be with and, strangely, this advocacy resembled Taliban rules. It *was* strange to hear a gung-ho American spouse support Islamic law w/in the US. I assume that  was too much cognitive dissonance and ‘negativity’ for her to accept. I do not miss her in my circle.

I have zero patience for pablum and happy platitudes in the face of crises and the people I’ve attracted and maintained in my life know that. It’s very freeing. Truly.

Theres a difference between plain ol’ mean spiritedness (YOU SUCK! YOU’RE AN IDIOT!) and frank talk (I think you could benefit from reading X, or doing Y). Too often the two are confused or conflated. They are not the same.

Edited June 8, 2020 by Sneezyone

[TCB]

18 minutes ago, Jaybee said:

 On one hand, not being on FB and seeing those thoughts and opinions would protect me for some of the angst and sadness. On the other hand, it helps me to know I need to be more guarded around people that I assumed would be more like-minded with myself. So it is clarifying in some ways. Even though it saddens me and makes me feel lonely, I think it helps me be more wise in how I interact with people. I do see a lot more polarization of opinions than I ever have before, more echo chambers, more assuming things about 'the other side' than before, and struggle against it in my own mind. I wonder where I fit in all of it, because it isn't in either of the most polarized sides of it. 

This is the hard part for me to make sense of. If I hadn't seen in on FB I would probably never have heard a number of these things from people themselves in our day to day in person conversations. So is the FB part their real thoughts, or is it their hyped up by social media venting type thoughts? Before social media we would have maybe discussed some of it in person, but probably without some of the venom, for want of a better word. Maybe part of the whole problem is that, as a society, we just don't discuss the important things in person anymore.

[Ottakee]

I see both extremes.  Most of my FB friends that are real life FR ends tend to really moderate what they put in FB.  They don't share the negatives of their kids, etc.   

A few more casual people do post more polarized things but they are not close friends.

FB does not represent real life.

[Jaybee]

Yes, being guarded is definitely stressful. It reminds me of a Frances book I used to read to my kids. Frances' friend was taking advantage of her, so she taught her a lesson, and then said (something like), "Being friends is nicer than being careful." The "being careful" is exhausting. I love that Bible verse anyway, but have been thinking that I need to get a wall plaque to put it right before my face these days, lol.

2 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

See, this even has its stressful side. I have been guarded, mostly because my social media posts have ALWAYS been guarded. It’s not where I discuss politics and heated issues. Yet along with everything else, the feed includes lots of messages about how saying nothing means agreement with the evil side. It’s a no-win for those of us who prefer to walk humbly, love justice, do mercy, in quiet meaningful ways. Media wise I mean. It’s a win with my conscience. 

 

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

See, this even has its stressful side. I have been guarded, mostly because my social media posts have ALWAYS been guarded. It’s not where I discuss politics and heated issues. Yet along with everything else, the feed includes lots of messages about how saying nothing means agreement with the evil side. It’s a no-win for those of us who prefer to walk humbly, love justice, do mercy, in quiet meaningful ways. Media wise I mean. It’s a win with my conscience. 

I have found saying nothing means bottling up frustration, elevating my blood pressure and negatively affecting my health. That’s not something I’m willing to do, at least not since I left the salaried workforce.

[TCB]

2 minutes ago, Ottakee said:

 

FB does not represent real life.

That's what I've always said! I've always said to my dds that you are comparing your inside with their outside, however now I wonder what is it they are putting on there. Their outside still, or is this now their inside? Troubling! Probably, as always, somewhere in between.

[Sneezyone]

5 minutes ago, TCB said:

This is the hard part for me to make sense of. If I hadn't seen in on FB I would probably never have heard a number of these things from people themselves in our day to day in person conversations. So is the FB part their real thoughts, or is it their hyped up by social media venting type thoughts? Before social media we would have maybe discussed some of it in person, but probably without some of the venom, for want of a better word. Maybe part of the whole problem is that, as a society, we just don't discuss the important things in person anymore.

THIS. We paper over it with social niceties and think it’s all good. It’s not.

[Momto6inIN]

48 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Social media encourages sound bites.  And generally sound bites aren't nuanced well thought out things because you just can't get nuance in a short sentence or two.  For example, I find a variety of memes kind of funny but often it's because of the irony present or the presentation - a short meme is not the sum total of what I think on a complex topic.  I could find a contradictory meme funny or pertinent too because it addresses a different side of the same issue or situation.  So if someone were to think that a meme was the sum total of my views just because I "liked" something or shared it or whatever (I'm not on FB so I'm a bit clueless about how that part of it works) they would be wrong. 

This. 

We can't possibly know exactly why someone liked or shared a post without actually being in their heads, but we assume we do ... and all too often we ascribe the worst possible spin to it instead of giving them the benefit of the doubt that they're not actually a completely horrible person.

I do it sometimes, too, but I try not to.

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, Momto6inIN said:

This. 

We can't possibly know exactly why someone liked or shared a post without actually being in their heads, but we assume we do ... and all too often we ascribe the worst possible spin to it instead of giving them the benefit of the doubt that they're not actually a completely horrible person.

I do it sometimes, too, but I try not to.

There’s an awful lot of stuff being liked and shared that has zero nuance at all. A meme of Obama and a banana, for example. I don’t need to see into your head to cut you off. As an old friend recently said, #beblockedandblessed.

Edited June 8, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Arcadia]

11 minutes ago, TCB said:

That's what I've always said! I've always said to my dds that you are comparing your inside with their outside, however now I wonder what is it they are putting on there. Their outside still, or is this now their inside? Troubling! Probably, as always, somewhere in between.

People who want to keep their jobs would usually not put anything on social media that they won't put on a job application or college application. My friends in public sector post their cooking and/or gardening photos on social media without adding any comments/captions. 

https://www.chronicle.com/article/As-Racist-Posts-Circulate/248929?key=wYmokCnDzR4h9eFNudrs4qY8k-JsUX9lYhi4Oq_J4EKL-xRlHb78tVGkQ3qBewk4VVhpbFJCYlVKLUM0TTRMX1RQSEI2eEVmdDNvVDFtXzNpQ1FycnQ4cEdDYw

"Marquette University, Xavier University (Ohio), and the University of Denver, are among the colleges that quickly kicked out incoming students when they learned the rising freshmen had used racist language in online posts or in videos about Floyd, a black man killed in police custody last week. Each institution released a statement that said, in effect: This student didn't uphold our values and is not welcome on our campus.

Admission offices have long received reports of bad behavior by incoming students, but consequences were carried out more slowly, said Marie Bigham, a former admissions officer and college counselor who founded the advocacy group Admissions Community Cultivating Equity & Peace Today. Over the past week, many cases have played out publicly, where students have tagged or direct-messaged the university on social media, and action has been swift.

At several institutions, including the College of Charleston, Arizona Christian University, and the University of Denver, it took only a day for campus officials to rescind offers to incoming students.

Colleges appear to be acknowledging that the moment is sensitive, and that Floyd’s death is not something to joke about, Bigham said. While campus leaders are well intentioned, they’re likely also being driven to act from a reputational standpoint, she said, since many of the racist posts written by students have circulated widely online.

Many of the complaints about these posts appeared to come from other students, who demanded that their colleges rescind acceptance offers and said they were unwilling to tolerate racist behavior."

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

14 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

There’s an awful lot of stuff being liked and shared that has zero nuance at all. A meme of Obama and a banana, for example. I don’t need to see into your head to cut you off. As an old friend recently said, #beblockedandblessed.

That would be an instance in which I would think that would be an indication of underlying attitudes that I could not overlook.  But recently on our neighborhood Nextdoor, someone (an older person) used the word Oriental.  People pointed out that the term is no longer used but the underlying intent of the person's post was not derogatory at all - she just used an outdated term (which I realize some feel is racist but there is not the same outrage among many Asians towards the term). 

[Momto6inIN]

13 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

There’s an awful lot of stuff being liked and shared that has zero nuance at all. A meme of Obama and a banana, for example. I don’t need to see into your head to cut you off. As an old friend recently said, #beblockedandblessed.

I don't see very much overt stuff like that. I wouldn't like it or share it, I would probably hide it if it came across my feed, that's what I usually do with stuff that offends me, for whatever reason. I keep hiding them and hoping that FB's algorithms will learn my preferences and stop showing me half naked people, for example, and anything with the F word.

[gardenmom5]

I think social media is just one area where people drop their filters because they're not actually facing the person to whom they're speaking.

but entertainment has degraded as well.  I was chatting with someone the other day about what passes for "comedy".  - in real life, very little of it is actually funny, and most of it is just mean.  (and some of it is illegal - but in the movies, the character isn't held accountable.)

[gardenmom5]

3 minutes ago, Momto6inIN said:

I don't see very much overt stuff like that. I wouldn't like it or share it, I would probably hide it if it came across my feed, that's what I usually do with stuff that offends me, for whatever reason. I keep hiding them and hoping that FB's algorithms will learn my preferences and stop showing me half naked people, for example, and anything with the F word.

I hate FB "ads", and I always "hide" ads because I dont' want them - but the last week, I've seen stuff that is completely opposite to who I am it's left me positively weirded out.

[Sneezyone]

11 minutes ago, Momto6inIN said:

I don't see very much overt stuff like that. I wouldn't like it or share it, I would probably hide it if it came across my feed, that's what I usually do with stuff that offends me, for whatever reason. I keep hiding them and hoping that FB's algorithms will learn my preferences and stop showing me half naked people, for example, and anything with the F word.

That doesn’t happen when it’s shared by ppl you know, particularly when they’ve liked your content before. Admittedly, it doesn’t really happen to me at all anymore b/c anyone that does it is immediately blocked. I’ve also adopted a policy of not friending other military spouses. That cut down on a lot of drama.

Edited June 8, 2020 by Sneezyone

[klmama]

2 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

I think social media is just one area where people drop their filters because they're not actually facing the person to whom they're speaking.

but entertainment has degraded as well.  I was chatting with someone the other day about what passes for "comedy".  - in real life, very little of it is actually funny, and most of it is just mean.  (and some of it is illegal - but in the movies, the character isn't held accountable.)

Both bolded sections aggravate me. 

It seems to me that social media exaggerates people's flaws.  Someone who tends not to listen well IRL does it even less on social media.  Someone who pontificates IRL goes nuts with it on social media.  Someone who overshares IRL makes people downright uncomfortable with it on social media.   

[BlsdMama]

4 hours ago, TCB said:

I've been thinking a lot about this since the start of the pandemic. I have definitely seen people post things I would have never have believed they would say. I know sometimes people argue that social media just allows a lack of restraint that would normally be present in face to face conversation. But is what we are seeing their true selves or something else? It seems pretty obvious what the effects on communities would be, but I would be interested in discussing this a bit. There's no way to put the genie back in the bottle but what can we do about it? As an individual I can be careful what I post, but what things can we do as a society or community?

I think it depends on whether it's something written by them, something shared, or a meme.

I think memes are often shared without thought or consideration, no indepth thought to meaning.  I think something they write is something they would say.  I think something shared (something someone else wrote) often reflects a  feeling of resonation - something the original author wrote resonated with personal feelings but may or may not completely reflect the sharer.

I've thought, several times this past week, that FB is not a wonderful tool anymore.  I didn't need this much insight to people I love because, face to face, there is some type of softening that exists, whereas FB encourages them to hone the blade/take more extreme sides. By that, I mean that people who tend to not analyze, "What do *I* believe?" tend to choose a side, but then see memes, writing, etc., that then encourages, "And this point, and consider..." So while they might have been more moderate in their views, they've become more polarized because of FB and feel more free to share that extremism because they see other people doing it.  I can tell you I am putting mental distance between myself and someone I thought of as a very good friend because of FB.

[BusyMom5]

2 hours ago, Arcadia said:

People who want to keep their jobs would usually not put anything on social media that they won't put on a job application or college application. My friends in public sector post their cooking and/or gardening photos on social media without adding any comments/captions. 

https://www.chronicle.com/article/As-Racist-Posts-Circulate/248929?key=wYmokCnDzR4h9eFNudrs4qY8k-JsUX9lYhi4Oq_J4EKL-xRlHb78tVGkQ3qBewk4VVhpbFJCYlVKLUM0TTRMX1RQSEI2eEVmdDNvVDFtXzNpQ1FycnQ4cEdDYw

"Marquette University, Xavier University (Ohio), and the University of Denver, are among the colleges that quickly kicked out incoming students when they learned the rising freshmen had used racist language in online posts or in videos about Floyd, a black man killed in police custody last week. Each institution released a statement that said, in effect: This student didn't uphold our values and is not welcome on our campus.

Admission offices have long received reports of bad behavior by incoming students, but consequences were carried out more slowly, said Marie Bigham, a former admissions officer and college counselor who founded the advocacy group Admissions Community Cultivating Equity & Peace Today. Over the past week, many cases have played out publicly, where students have tagged or direct-messaged the university on social media, and action has been swift.

At several institutions, including the College of Charleston, Arizona Christian University, and the University of Denver, it took only a day for campus officials to rescind offers to incoming students.

Colleges appear to be acknowledging that the moment is sensitive, and that Floyd’s death is not something to joke about, Bigham said. While campus leaders are well intentioned, they’re likely also being driven to act from a reputational standpoint, she said, since many of the racist posts written by students have circulated widely online.

Many of the complaints about these posts appeared to come from other students, who demanded that their colleges rescind acceptance offers and said they were unwilling to tolerate racist behavior."

 

 

I was reading about this earlier, and it rubs me the wrong way.  I know at 16, 17, 18, even 20- we think kids should stop and think before posting, but they don't.  What lesson did we teach by banning them from college?  I have been after my kids as soon as they were allowed social media to NEVER post anything controversial.  No matter if they are agreeing or disagreeing, just do not go there!  They know that an employer, land lord, and apparently now college boards will look.  I happen to have several teens on my FB feed, friends of my kids and they have been posting away.  Do you know what bothers me the most about these shares?  The fact that I know there will be several of them that change their views in the next 3-5 years, and here is this evidence of their views as an ignorant teen.  Embarassing!  I know my views as a teen are not the same as they are now, as an adult.  My own experiences have shaped me, reading from other viewpoints, just brain maturity!  Do any of us really want to go back and think like we did at 18?  Did we not think stupid things?  Hurtful things?  Did we lack the maturity to see how our words and actions hurt others?  Did we really understand how big issues like poverty, healthcare, or foodstamps work? I don't know what the answer is, but this feels much like censorship.  If you don't agree with the current trend, you are not allowed in.  I am not saying I agree that the teens should be posting hurtful, racist remarks.  I even feel they should get punishment (maybe be required to take a civil rights class their first semester?), but outright banning them from the university just feels like a step in the wrong direction.  IF they goal is to teach, then teach.  These are young, impressionable kids.  As I tell mine, they aren't allowed to have a qualified opinion on many topics yet b/c they are not of the age to really understand those issues.

 

I believe that social media has hurt us more than it has helped.  Too easy to share misinformation, too easy to read in a bubble, too easy to just not think.  Too easy to spout whatever garbage rolls through your head- and plenty of self absorbed people to post their opinion as if they are an expert.  I have even watched people share memes from opposite sides of the spectrum, some that are supposed to be read as satire or sarcasm- they aren't thinking!  If I had my wish it would be all puppies, gardens and kids.  Right now it's all about BLM, but a few weeks ago it was government oppression of small businesses and before that it was Covid-19 was going to kill us all.  Every few weeks, another hot topic- jump on the bandwagon of your choice.  I don't want to jump on any of those bandwagons b/c they minute I do, I have to accept everything else that goes with that bandwagon. I am a staunch independent, and I see evil on both sides of the isle!  I don't want to join any groups, I want to think for myself.  I do not want to pick from 2 extremes when a perfectly reasonable solution lies somewhere in the middle.  Social media encourages us to stop thinking and join the group.  It belittles and makes fun of the other side.  It divides us.

 

Somehow I'm addicted to.  Addicted to watching the train wrecks, the ironies (government paid for all your last health issue but you are against socialized medicine- STILL), laughing at the ignorance of some, worrying if a post is reaching out for mental health help.  I need to get off of it, I'm not sure Ill last through election time!  

[prairiewindmomma]

I have a differing view. I feel like teens and early 20s for the most part are way more savvy about social media than the average 60-70 year old. Gen Z carefully curate their posted material and photos.
 

I have reminded my kids since they were first learning to type that what they put online lives forever and often can be dug back up even if deleted. Likewise, they are more aware of all of the tracking by apps, phone geofencing, etc. 

[Sneezyone]

53 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

I think it depends on whether it's something written by them, something shared, or a meme.

I think memes are often shared without thought or consideration, no indepth thought to meaning.  I think something they write is something they would say.  I think something shared (something someone else wrote) often reflects a  feeling of resonation - something the original author wrote resonated with personal feelings but may or may not completely reflect the sharer.

I've thought, several times this past week, that FB is not a wonderful tool anymore.  I didn't need this much insight to people I love because, face to face, there is some type of softening that exists, whereas FB encourages them to hone the blade/take more extreme sides. By that, I mean that people who tend to not analyze, "What do *I* believe?" tend to choose a side, but then see memes, writing, etc., that then encourages, "And this point, and consider..." So while they might have been more moderate in their views, they've become more polarized because of FB and feel more free to share that extremism because they see other people doing it.  I can tell you I am putting mental distance between myself and someone I thought of as a very good friend because of FB.

 

I will be honest for moment, no, not a moment, this is my norm (who am I kidding?). THAT SOFTENING IS FOR YOU. That softening may not exist for other people they patronize, work with, or are around on a regular basis. Accepting the softening for you often means ignoring the hard-heartedness that exists toward others.

38 minutes ago, BusyMom5 said:

 

I was reading about this earlier, and it rubs me the wrong way.  I know at 16, 17, 18, even 20- we think kids should stop and think before posting, but they don't.  What lesson did we teach by banning them from college?  I have been after my kids as soon as they were allowed social media to NEVER post anything controversial.  No matter if they are agreeing or disagreeing, just do not go there!  They know that an employer, land lord, and apparently now college boards will look.  I happen to have several teens on my FB feed, friends of my kids and they have been posting away.  Do you know what bothers me the most about these shares?  The fact that I know there will be several of them that change their views in the next 3-5 years, and here is this evidence of their views as an ignorant teen.  Embarassing!  I know my views as a teen are not the same as they are now, as an adult.  My own experiences have shaped me, reading from other viewpoints, just brain maturity!  Do any of us really want to go back and think like we did at 18?  Did we not think stupid things?  Hurtful things?  Did we lack the maturity to see how our words and actions hurt others?  Did we really understand how big issues like poverty, healthcare, or foodstamps work? I don't know what the answer is, but this feels much like censorship.  If you don't agree with the current trend, you are not allowed in.  I am not saying I agree that the teens should be posting hurtful, racist remarks.  I even feel they should get punishment (maybe be required to take a civil rights class their first semester?), but outright banning them from the university just feels like a step in the wrong direction.  IF they goal is to teach, then teach.  These are young, impressionable kids.  As I tell mine, they aren't allowed to have a qualified opinion on many topics yet b/c they are not of the age to really understand those issues.

 

Controversy is NOT the problem IMO. Total and complete disrespect is the problem. It's not, "I don't agree with homosexuality" It's "Homosexuals are spawns of Satan and have no place in polite society." It's not "I support LEO's." It's "Those black people need to be shot on sight as soon as they hold up a sign." You can disagree, even in pointed and specific ways, without calling for the death or injury of others. In most cases, the people doing this (and having their admissions rescinded) have no close connections with any of the people they're consigning to hell and/or an ignominious death at the hands of LEOs or other criminals. For myself, if YOU havent done your job as a parent to nip this crap in the bud before 18, legal adulthood, that's on you. Look in the mirror. No one cuts that level of slack to pre-teens playing in the park or walking through a neighborhood with Skittles. Goose----->Gander.

Edited June 8, 2020 by Sneezyone

[SKL]

I think the bigger issue is that what is posted on social media does not show the depth of the individual posting (or, more often, sharing) the comments we see.  It's like the blind men and the elephant.

One good way to reduce this is to refrain from making assumptions such as "if this person disagrees with X, he must also hate Y and Z and like ABC and basically lack a soul."

Of course the other great idea is to be careful what you post.  But that doesn't always prevent ignorant assumptions.

[Sneezyone]

49 minutes ago, SKL said:

I think the bigger issue is that what is posted on social media does not show the depth of the individual posting (or, more often, sharing) the comments we see.  It's like the blind men and the elephant.

One good way to reduce this is to refrain from making assumptions such as "if this person disagrees with X, he must also hate Y and Z and like ABC and basically lack a soul."

Of course the other great idea is to be careful what you post.  But that doesn't always prevent ignorant assumptions.

 

I can appreciate that there are people in America who have not seen REPEATED comments by people that indicate a pattern of disrespect for the humanity of others but I can tell you, from my vantage point, that people reveal themselves on social media in ways that they would NEVER do in public all the time. Social media is a magnifying glass, not a fun house mirror. Everyone is not nice, good, kind, good-hearted and well-meaning. There is A LOT of malevolence and it's not assumed. The offenses are intended. To suggest otherwise is to gaslight those who see it with their own eyes. This man: https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/06/06/naval-academy-alumni-board-member-resigns-after-accidentally-streaming-racial-slurs-facebook-live.html was elevated to a position of trustee over the USNA alumni association. His TRUE feelings were revealed on social media by accident. What are the odds people he was acquaintances with knew any of this? What damage did he do to people's careers as a result of his obvious bias? Imma leave his disgusting wife alone but she is a PRIME example of why I do not trust white women, PARTICULARLY, those I have met who are affiliated with the military.

Edited June 8, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Shoeless]

13 hours ago, TCB said:

I feel a bit torn though. I really value honesty, but when I'm annoyed or upset I can say things that I don't really mean. Usually, if I'm around people, my manners will prevent me from spewing it out, and once I've calmed down I realize that things aren't really quite how I thought in the heat of the moment. Social media seems to be a way of spewing out the things that we might not say, or even hold to be true, after we've cooled down and reflected. We can always go back and apologize, I guess, but very few seem to.

I agree though, that fewer true honest friends are worth way more than hoards of false ones. Unfortunately for me, if I take out the ones saying crazy stuff from my friend list locally, I have very few left. I guess I don't have a big enough pool of friends.

 

But have you ever felt compelled to make racist, sexist, or homophobic statements when you are upset?  Before social media, were you likely to think hateful things about minorities or different ethnic groups, but just keep those thoughts to yourself? Because if that is true, then the issue isn't social media. 

[Shoeless]

12 hours ago, Seasider too said:

See, this even has its stressful side. I have been guarded, mostly because my social media posts have ALWAYS been guarded. It’s not where I discuss politics and heated issues. Yet along with everything else, the feed includes lots of messages about how saying nothing means agreement with the evil side. It’s a no-win for those of us who prefer to walk humbly, love justice, do mercy, in quiet meaningful ways. Media wise I mean. It’s a win with my conscience. 

 

I've been seeing this theme pop up on my feed, too.  It's all a lot of virtue signaling, because none of these people are backing up their posts with any kind of action.  It costs them nothing to make big statements about the police or Black Lives Matter.  Precious few of these folks are actually going to change anything about how they live their life.  

It feels like when people do charity walks where the purpose is to "raise awareness" and not "raise funds to support treatment" for a disease. Nothing is actually getting accomplished, but people sure do feel good about themselves after they've completed the walk. 

[Pawz4me]

2 hours ago, MissLemon said:

 

I've been seeing this theme pop up on my feed, too.  It's all a lot of virtue signaling, because none of these people are backing up their posts with any kind of action.  It costs them nothing to make big statements about the police or Black Lives Matter.  Precious few of these folks are actually going to change anything about how they live their life.  

It feels like when people do charity walks where the purpose is to "raise awareness" and not "raise funds to support treatment" for a disease. Nothing is actually getting accomplished, but people sure do feel good about themselves after they've completed the walk. 

I don't necessarily believe the above is always true. Speaking for myself--My policy since joining FB (which I did less than a year ago) has been to avoid anything political. But in the past week I have posted a few things--articles I found thoughtful, along with my thoughts about them. I have good reason to believe a small handful of people who may read what I post have minds that may be nudged just a tiny bit by knowing my opinion. Otherwise there would have been zero reason for me to post. "Likes" from an echo chamber don't do a thing for me.

IRL I'm already doing everything I can at the moment. There's nothing to change. I didn't feel particularly good about myself after posting, either. I felt a lot of anxiety, and even a bit nauseous. 'Cause I know some of the racists on my feed all too well, and could easily anticipate what reactions I might have gotten from them.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Pawz4me

[Carrie12345]

I once saw a post: THere is no Internet You and Real You. If you’re a ___ online, you’re a ___.
or somethig like that.

I do know that I can be provoked more easily online. I also know my snotty and/or flippant sarcasm and jokes (which is all Real Me) do not always land in print. Heck, they don’t always land in person! But the things I say on the internet are exactly what I say irl with my real friends and immediate/FOO family. Acquaintances may not approve.

I can occasionally find myself “going negative” in places like neighborhood pages when people start doing crazy things like calling our HOA rules illegal. Or the 10th post in a day asking if it’s a recycling week. Or complaints about kids existing. Or other nutty stuff. So I do try to limit my time  in those spaces.

I’ve always operated on the assumption that people mean what they say. And they say who they are.

People who do the “life is perfect “ routine is a different story. I’m happy to leave them to it. If their likes keep their chins up, I can throw them a few.

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Momto6inIN said:

This. 

We can't possibly know exactly why someone liked or shared a post without actually being in their heads, but we assume we do ... and all too often we ascribe the worst possible spin to it instead of giving them the benefit of the doubt that they're not actually a completely horrible person.

I do it sometimes, too, but I try not to.

That’s not my typical experience on SM. Most of my friends who share a meme or article on their wall, write a few sentences at the top that sums up why they agree with the meme. It doesn’t leave me wondering how they feel about some issue because they are specifying what they believe or agree with about the meme. 

Right now, my FB feed is full of memes about racial justice. But there are also people mocking that. One “friend” posted a meme about how all his white friends are so pleased with themselves, putting up memes about how Black Lives Matter. (This is a white guy.)That is, IMO, social pressure to attempt to punish his white friends who openly support racial justice. Another friend of mine posted a meme with a beautiful little blonde girl hugging her white LEO dad and sayin, “My daddy’s life matters.” It made me want to go retrieve a photo of George Floyd’s daughter and post it, saying, “Didn’t hers?” One of my cousins posted a meme of, “Why does it have to be about race? Why can’t we say a police officer killed a ‘man’?” Another lady I knew from high school posted, “Has anyone considered that if you don’t commit a crime, maybe you won’t have to worry about what the cops will do?” These last two examples show, quite flagrantly, a total lack of understanding about the problem. I don’t need a long dissertation on their views to understand what the notions are in their heads. It doesn’t mean I think they are a completely horrible person, but I definitely think they do not understand the issues. If they are bold enough to post those things, they should be bold enough to be challenged on them. 

Edited June 9, 2020 by Quill

[Guest]

3 hours ago, MissLemon said:

 

I've been seeing this theme pop up on my feed, too.  It's all a lot of virtue signaling, because none of these people are backing up their posts with any kind of action.  It costs them nothing to make big statements about the police or Black Lives Matter.  Precious few of these folks are actually going to change anything about how they live their life.  

It feels like when people do charity walks where the purpose is to "raise awareness" and not "raise funds to support treatment" for a disease. Nothing is actually getting accomplished, but people sure do feel good about themselves after they've completed the walk. 

That’s not the case with many - or most - people on my feed who are making statements for racial justice. Some of them are business owners and part of their purpose for having a SM presence is visibility for their business. I reckon it costs them much to make a strong public statement because believe me, some people will punish them for it. 

I was watching my (white) pastor speak about this topic online to our (almost entirely white) church. In the comments, during a live service, one person was complaining about how it was a bunch of “liberal bs”. There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that this week, my pastor is getting a flood of emails or possibly phone calls - some are probably thanking him for speaking openly about racial injustice - but others, no doubt, who are mad he said that. I have no doubt it costs him something to take a position for justice. 

I agree that there is such a thing as a danger in just putting up some feel-good meme and then wiping one’s hands together - “Welp! That’s that!” Does that sometimes happen? Yes. But what happens more is people don’t know what they can do to help so they do nothing at all. And if people do not make their views known on FB at least, silence will be assumed to be agreement. I just made a private FB group where we, a bunch of ordinary white folks, can discuss what we can do, what we should read, how we can talk to our racist Uncle Bob or our neighbor who says something gross at a pool party. I chose these people for this private group because I know from the bottom of my heart, without a doubt n my head, where they stand on racial justice, and the reason I know is because they post it on FB. I do have other nice friends who probably believe in racial justice, but they never speak up; they won’t rock the boat or be the slightest bit controversial because it will cost them too much. I didn’t choose those people for my Dumbledore’s Army, lol. I have to know they want to see change. 

[linders]

From watching DH, who is on Facebook with a large number of "friends" (acquaintances), I see a big negative. DH is open about his opinions on Facebook; he is also a bit of a sarcastic person and likes "poking." His real friends, people who know him, are able to read his posts with that understanding. Many of the rest can't, and the ensuing debates - all electronic - get heated. He complains about it, I tell him he shouldn't be having debates like this remotely with people he barely knows. It is aggravating to me because I have to work with some of these people - in person - in other settings, like scouts.

I am not on Facebook, but I am on Instagram and Twitter. I limit Instagram to interesting photos. I rarely post on Twitter, although I express my opinions through my "likes." I've only once heard about that.

[G5052]

Yes, I guess more than anything, Facebook has become an interesting social experiment.

I tend to be a puppies-and-babies type. I want to see them, and I want to post positive, cheerful things. There has been a lot of horrible stuff in my life over the last five years, and it doesn't go there. Period. 

But I'm seeing sides of people that I find troubling. I guess that the filters are down and the assumption is that everyone agrees with them. Being isolated isn't good for some people, IMHO, because they believe too much of their own rhetroic and feel that venting on Facebook restores some of the power they feel they have lost. I admit that there things I've seen on Facebook that gave me pause about certain people. I'm not sure how I feel about them now, but maybe they're just not in a good place right now. 

What a mess!

[SKL]

I am very selective regarding who I allow to be my fb "friends" in the first place.  That said, I find that the vast majority of my fb friends' posts about the current controversial events are quite moderate (if they post at all).  Basically the theme is that you can agree that __ is wrong and also agree that __ is wrong.  And most of us do agree on most of it. 

In short, the trend I see is people trying to resist polarization.  Which IMO is a good thing.  Because polarization really stifles intelligent discussion and resulting action.

[Scarlett]

I think it just depends on the person.  I only have one friend on my FB who is spewing things that are making me just SHM.  I worked with her, side by side for at least 10 years.  We were close friends.  We have stayed in touch.  How is it possible that I didn’t see this part of her before. Or did she change so much?  I never even noticed political stuff from her until the last 4 years.  
 

As for my posts....first I am politically neutral.  And second I don’t post deeply personal or sensitive things on my FB.  I admit that I did post a few such things 11 years ago....I know because they come up in my FB memories and I cringe.  Now I pics of my dog or cat or flowers or sometimes a pic of family or some such.  And I have posted a few links to scientific articles regarding the virus.  
 

So I think a lot of this inflammatory stuff is a sign of immaturity and believe me people can be immature way past teen years.  But people have to want to grow and learn.  No one can force them.

[TCB]

7 hours ago, MissLemon said:

 

But have you ever felt compelled to make racist, sexist, or homophobic statements when you are upset?  Before social media, were you likely to think hateful things about minorities or different ethnic groups, but just keep those thoughts to yourself? Because if that is true, then the issue isn't social media. 

You are right those things are different than just getting annoyed and spouting off. I guess that sort of thing is probably people showing their true selves. I tend to hope it’s just that they don’t realize what they’re saying or posting. It’s really depressing.

[Momto6inIN]

3 hours ago, Quill said:

Right now, my FB feed is full of memes about racial justice. But there are also people mocking that. One “friend” posted a meme about how all his white friends are so pleased with themselves, putting up memes about how Black Lives Matter. (This is a white guy.)That is, IMO, social pressure to attempt to punish his white friends who openly support racial justice. Another friend of mine posted a meme with a beautiful little blonde girl hugging her white LEO dad and sayin, “My daddy’s life matters.” It made me want to go retrieve a photo of George Floyd’s daughter and post it, saying, “Didn’t hers?” One of my cousins posted a meme of, “Why does it have to be about race? Why can’t we say a police officer killed a ‘man’?” Another lady I knew from high school posted, “Has anyone considered that if you don’t commit a crime, maybe you won’t have to worry about what the cops will do?” These last two examples show, quite flagrantly, a total lack of understanding about the problem. I don’t need a long dissertation on their views to understand what the notions are in their heads. It doesn’t mean I think they are a completely horrible person, but I definitely think they do not understand the issues. If they are bold enough to post those things, they should be bold enough to be challenged on them. 

Re the bolded: I've heard POC (I think on this board and for sure elsewhere) say the same thing though - that what they really want is for white people to stop wringing their hands by posting about racial injustice on SM and start doing something about it instead. Just as an example, I know a white young adult who has been posting a lot about it, and some of her black friends have been chiding her about it. So I am left unsure about when I should post in support and when I should keep my mouth shut.

And as far as the little girl hugging her daddy ... I have a friend whose husband is a LEO and while she and her DH both deplore what happened to George Floyd and do not support the officers who killed him in any way, shape, or form, his safety in responding to a riot is a very real and pressing issue on their minds right now. SM is very much an "all about me" phenomena, so it makes sense to me that they'd post about what is affecting them personally right now.

Posting something real about their own thoughts and the effect on their own lives on their page doesn't mean they don't care about George Floyd. Assuming that leads more to the polarization SKL is talking about below. Most of what I've seen is people posting multiple things from different perspectives.

The other 2 examples you gave I agree are over the line. I haven't seen much of those.

6 minutes ago, SKL said:

I am very selective regarding who I allow to be my fb "friends" in the first place.  That said, I find that the vast majority of my fb friends' posts about the current controversial events are quite moderate (if they post at all).  Basically the theme is that you can agree that __ is wrong and also agree that __ is wrong.  And most of us do agree on most of it. 

In short, the trend I see is people trying to resist polarization.  Which IMO is a good thing.  Because polarization really stifles intelligent discussion and resulting action.

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Momto6inIN said:

Re the bolded: I've heard POC (I think on this board and for sure elsewhere) say the same thing though - that what they really want is for white people to stop wringing their hands by posting about racial injustice on SM and start doing something about it instead. Just as an example, I know a white young adult who has been posting a lot about it, and some of her black friends have been chiding her about it. So I am left unsure about when I should post in support and when I should keep my mouth shut.

And as far as the little girl hugging her daddy ... I have a friend whose husband is a LEO and while she and her DH both deplore what happened to George Floyd and do not support the officers who killed him in any way, shape, or form, his safety in responding to a riot is a very real and pressing issue on their minds right now. SM is very much an "all about me" phenomena, so it makes sense to me that they'd post about what is affecting them personally right now.

Posting something real about their own thoughts and the effect on their own lives on their page doesn't mean they don't care about George Floyd. Assuming that leads more to the polarization SKL is talking about below. Most of what I've seen is people posting multiple things from different perspectives.

The other 2 examples you gave I agree are over the line. I haven't seen much of those.

 

I had a long post reply to you but I accidentally wonked my post and I can’t get it back now. 

Suffice it for the moment to say, I agree, POC do sometimes criticize this. I don’t think that’s a reason to say nothing, though; it’s a reason to make sure you *aren’t* offering nothing but glib posts that cost you nothing. 

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, Plum said:

Haven’t read the comment so I don’t know where this thread has gone but I’ll put in my .02. 
 

Social media emboldens people because every thought they have receives some sort of validation. Everyone finds their tribe on social media and everyone gets reinforced. No matter how small your tribe is in comparison to the actual world, it feels big because the internet is not tangible and the mind just cannot grasp the numbers of people on the other end.
So people feel validated and encouraged to take their views to the next level. 
No I don’t think it’s good for society. It’s not good to compare yourself to the influencers or the people you went to high school with. You wouldn’t normally see or talk to them. Now they are living the life you always wanted? It’s not good to be able to say or read all of the nasty things that pop into people’s head. I am still stunned at some people’s posts. You think you know someone. It’s only split the divide even further. It hasn’t brought people together in a meaningful way for lengthy discussions about things that truly matter. Maybe if we had a more homogeneous culture where everyone was working for a collective goal I could see it being useful. But not how we use it.
 

 

And this is why SM is so different for me. I existed in primarily white spaces, had primarily white classmates, and had primarily white friends for most of my early years. Most of the white people I'm FB 'friends' with are acquaintances from work or childhood. Some of them are slowly creeping into the friend category. NOT ALL. I've never posted things for validation. THEY SOUGHT ME OUT, not the other way around, largely I think to see if what they remember about our relationships is accurate. The high school classmates I had in Arkansas are still strangers to me and, I imagine, are on a completely different end of the political spectrum. They benefitted from a system that did its damnedest to break me down in very real and specific ways. I can count on whatever I say (my truths) being offensive to a good chunk of those people--especially the law-professor father of my old elementary classmate (both my mother and I attended the law school where he was a professor). They had no idea how their experiences differed from my own and they lived 10 minutes from us. They are still on my FB tho, still listening, and I admire that to some degree. So as long as they're there, they might as well know what I thought then and feel today.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Sneezyone

[HS Mom in NC]

I'm only on FB.

I think there are both kinds of people posting social justice memes: those who are paying lip service by posting memes and those who are taking a stand by posting memes.  The ones paying lip service are usually people whose social circles on social media and IRL already agree with them and it's costing them nothing and  they aren't willing to make donations to groups fighting injustice, they're not willing to contact their elected representatives, etc.   Those taking stand by posting have the opposite situation in their social circles.

I do agree that no one spouts nasty comments about particular groups in the heat of the moment if they don't really think that-that comes from what lies deep down in their hearts.

There's always a degree of separation/detachment when posting, but few people have the awareness and self-discipline to read other people's posts with a degree of separation/detachment.  I don't know what the psychological explanation for it is.  My guess is many have that personality trait/family culture/social norm that makes them incapable of not taking things personally. All disagreements are perceived as personal attacks by them and the only response options they seem to take are fight or flight.

SM is a community culture many people aren't used to in their IRL communities.  Those steeped in the culture of nice are probably having a hard time adjusting to it whereas people who live in communities with very outspoken, direct, passionate, and often verbally aggressive members of widely divergent views aren't surprised or upset about it. They may not like it, but there isn't much hand wringing over it beyond want people to stop personal insults and attacks.

We're also living in a world of idealism (our business and political world have been  dominated by Baby Boomers who are every much, as a whole, idealists unlike Gen X, for example) which makes people perceive every proposed policy or idea as either critical to the continuation of a functioning society or a threat that, if implemented, will literally bring about the end of the world as we know it. On the whole in America, our sense of degrees is so faded out everything is polarized. And because everyone wants the government to take care of making what they approve of happen and what they don't approve of end, everything is seen through the lens of politics.