WHOAH! Colleges not opening until 2021

[DawnM]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/14/us/university-may-cancel-classes-fall-2021-trnd/index.html

Do you think this will happen?

I remember when my middle son told me he planned to live with me forever and asked if he could homeschool for college (ok, so he was like 8 when he said that!) and we looked into some schools that he could do from home just for fun.

Looks like it is all coming true.  😆

[Farrar]

This has been the rumor for weeks. Several schools have reportedly told professors to  be ready to teach online again in fall. Some schools are talking about opening campuses partially - for international students, for example, or for subjects that can't be taught easily from home - but only if they're deemed safe enough - while teaching other things online. I've also heard that some schools are getting ready to be able to separate quarantined students if they have to when they do open.

[DawnM]

I think it will be interesting to find out if some majors that were never online options, become online options.  There might be a lot more schools and degrees available online, which won't be a bad thing.

[Lanny]

9 hours ago, DawnM said:

I think it will be interesting to find out if some majors that were never online options, become online options.  There might be a lot more schools and degrees available online, which won't be a bad thing.

 

However, it isn't the same experience. Many subjects can be taught Online, with excellent results, but others are best taught on-site, in-person. For that reason, universities such as UNC limit the number of Online Credits that count toward graduation requirements. I believe the limit is 24 credits?

[Miss Tick]

If they can't do the money making sports, I wonder if some "nonprofitable" majors will go away.

Edited April 18, 2020 by SusanC
added a subject to the sentence. eyeroll

[almondbutterandjelly]

I suppose it may happen in some places, but I live in south Texas, and our numbers are low and our curve is pretty flat.  The university has rescheduled spring graduation for early August, and the local school district is rescheduling high school graduations for late July.  So I think here, things will open up for fall.

[DawnM]

Yeah, I guess we will have to see.

I understand many majors can't be online, I was just thinking that some may be.  For example. my son's college has his major as an MA online but the undergrad is on campus. They do have some online majors, just not his.

And I know that the major I would like to get for another MA is not online through the college I went to, but if they opened up the major online I might do it!  (The school is another state or I would have already done it.)

[lmrich]

It is complicated because colleges combine kids from around the country and around the world. Plus they are put into tight living conditions. 

I hope that professors and workers at these colleges with underlying health conditions have the option to work from home or at least take a leave of absence if colleges open back up. 

[Farrar]

I feel like there are two separate issues with what can and cannot go online. One is a philosophical one and one is a practical one. You can't practically learn something like dance or theater tech online. Not to the extent that you should for a college degree. And there are other majors where it's also just very, very hard - where a few components could be, but others would be straining the bounds of realistic. There are other majors that could, practically speaking. But that doesn't mean that schools should necessarily let them be in normal times. The philosophical or pedagogical choice to say this program is an in person program is an important one, I think. Just like practically you could teach math a lot of different ways, but it's okay to decide you want a mastery program that involves challenging problems as opposed to a program that emphasizes memorizing math facts and traditional algorithms. Both can practically teach math, but there are philosophical choices that can be core to an educational program and in person discussion and learning is certainly one of those.

I do think this may make it easier long term to find more options online for more programs that traditionally were harder to find. And I don't think that's a bad thing necessarily.

[Guest]

This is why DD isn't doing much DE in the fall, and only with professors already teaching online. Her college is likely to be hybrid in the fall, classes online, labs on campus, with small lab groups. Her senior fall schedule is going to look very different than her other semesters as a result. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by dmmetler

[teachermom2834]

Two local universities and two community colleges have postponed graduation to August. I don't know whether that is based on indications they are getting from local leaders or just wishful thinking or whether they are putting the date out there but are expecting to cancel. I don't know but some announcements about local things make me think someone in government has tipped their hand and given officials reason to believe these events will be possible. Or maybe one university makes a statement and the others just follow. Who knows?

My ds has a de class scheduled for the first summer session (May). As of now this is still officially an in person class. I guess maybe the university is hoping that the governor or mayor or someone else makes the decision for them?

I wish I could be a fly on the wall in some of these meetings and know what is really happening and what the thinking really is.

[Lanny]

2 hours ago, DawnM said:

Yeah, I guess we will have to see.

I understand many majors can't be online, I was just thinking that some may be.  For example. my son's college has his major as an MA online but the undergrad is on campus. They do have some online majors, just not his.

And I know that the major I would like to get for another MA is not online through the college I went to, but if they opened up the major online I might do it!  (The school is another state or I would have already done it.)

 

IMO, if a university, especially a selective university, goes to "Online" courses for the Fall semester, they will need to lower what they charge per credit, substantially....  Online isn't the equivalent of the in-seat experience on the campus.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I don't know what dd will do if her school has to go online for fall.  She will be a junior in civil engineering.  As it stands now, she is registered for 5 labs, one of which is for a class she is from her study abroad program that only offers the lecture portion (and is currently online) and didn't offer the lab portion.  I can't see how she will be able to graduate on time if she cannot take these labs.  But, we will wait and see. 

My summer classes will be online and they may be changing the order of the curriculum to move more classes into the summer so that we will have room in the fall to make up clinical hours that we are missing right now.  If we have to do fall online, my graduation date will definitely slip due to accreditation requirements.  

We did just get an email from her school's provost outlining the plans for summer online courses and how they are dealing with time sensitive labs for their OT, PT, and other health science majors.  Can't do gross anatomy online per accreditation.  

[dirty ethel rackham]

5 minutes ago, Lanny said:

 

IMO, if a university, especially a selective university, goes to "Online" courses for the Fall semester, they will need to lower what they charge per credit, substantially....  Online isn't the equivalent of the in-seat experience on the campus.

Interesting.  I agree that online is definitely the equivalent of in-seat classes.  However, the community college I attend has an extra fee for online classes ?!?!  They made a big deal out of waiving the fee for this summer.  I would have hoped they would be less expensive.  

[Miss Tick]

29 minutes ago, Lanny said:

 

IMO, if a university, especially a selective university, goes to "Online" courses for the Fall semester, they will need to lower what they charge per credit, substantially....  Online isn't the equivalent of the in-seat experience on the campus.

I see where you are coming from here, but many universities are not run like fast food restaurants where the price reflects the cost of the item you are getting plus a percentage of the overhead. In general terms it is my understanding that the major funding sources tend to be sports, international students, and majors that can support their own research. If we cancel all the football games in the fall and international students can't attend that is a big hit to funding. A university can't continue to offer all the same classes and majors if a large percentage of the funding is gone - to say nothing of offering a further discount.

Ignoring practical issues that have been mentioned elsewhere, suddenly moving all classes online surely has, at minimum, some infrastructure costs.

Furthermore, if we want universities to some day return to "normal", they can't just move everything wholesale online and prune away the expensive physical aspects. They will have to maintain buildings, finish out ongoing construction.

I don't see how they can reduce costs for fall.

Edited April 15, 2020 by SusanC

[MamaSprout]

27 minutes ago, Lanny said:

 

IMO, if a university, especially a selective university, goes to "Online" courses for the Fall semester, they will need to lower what they charge per credit, substantially....  Online isn't the equivalent of the in-seat experience on the campus.

Both of my Master's were online from well-known-and-regarded public university. The cost per credit hour was slightly higher than the in-person cost per credit. These were online-only programs, though, not a different version of the face to face program. YMMV.

Edited April 15, 2020 by MamaSprout

[Wheres Toto]

Oldest dd is finishing up a Masters program that an externship is the only thing remaining after this semester.   She would most likely be working in a prison or a hospital, so it will be interesting to see how that is supposed to work. 

[klmama]

2 hours ago, MamaSprout said:

Both of my Master's were online from well-known-and-regarded public university. The cost per credit hour was slightly higher than the in-person cost per credit. These were online-only programs, though, not a different version of the face to face program. YMMV.

Dc's public university charges $1000 more for online courses in dc's major.  Yikes!  Dc didn't realize that when registering.  Thankfully, dc was able to switch to an in-person session that met at an inconvenient time (which was why dc chose the online course in the first place). 

[regentrude]

3 hours ago, Lanny said:

IMO, if a university, especially a selective university, goes to "Online" courses for the Fall semester, they will need to lower what they charge per credit, substantially....  Online isn't the equivalent of the in-seat experience on the campus.

And how do you propose the university pays for the costs of running the university? Cut professor's salaries while they are working a lot harder teaching online? Fire the support staff? Hire part time, no benefits, adjuncts they can get for cheap because they don't have to pay them health insurance or minimum wage? Close and sell all buildings and have all professors work from home forever? All that while having massive funding cuts because states are broke?
They ARE already preparing for drastic cuts. Pay cuts. Layoffs. Restructuring. Because tuition will be the only source of income for a college whose state appropriations are cut. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by regentrude

[catz]

8 hours ago, Lanny said:

 

However, it isn't the same experience. Many subjects can be taught Online, with excellent results, but others are best taught on-site, in-person. For that reason, universities such as UNC limit the number of Online Credits that count toward graduation requirements. I believe the limit is 24 credits?

Highly unlikely.  It's not like it's costing  them less to run and maintain the university and pay faculty.  And most of these schools skew wealthy.  Plenty of families are willing to pay a premium for a branded private school.

I have to say, I'm very glad we took a more economical option for my college freshman this year.  

[RootAnn]

DD's college has an online class rate that is more expensive per credit hour than in-state rates but less expensive than out of state rates.  If you are only registered for online classes, you only pay the online rate with no student fees (health center, activities, etc). If you have even one in person class, you pay the regular tuition rate for all your classes. 

[Lanny]

3 hours ago, regentrude said:

And how do you propose the university pays for the costs of running the university? Cut professor's salaries while they are working a lot harder teaching online? Fire the support staff? Hire part time, no benefits, adjuncts they can get for cheap because they don't have to pay them health insurance or minimum wage? Close and sell all buildings and have all professors work from home forever? All that while having massive funding cuts because states are broke?
They ARE already preparing for drastic cuts. Pay cuts. Layoffs. Restructuring. Because tuition will be the only source of income for a college whose state appropriations are cut. 

 

I am not proposing any of those things. Those are all bad things, and are very negative for the university, the students, instructors, staff, etc.

Really bad situation, like so many other things influenced by the Covid-19 emergency. There are no simple solutions to complex issues.

I read (not post in) the  Sub Reddit for UNC. That's only one school, but from reading some threads there, over the past month or so, I can tell you that if UNC begins the Fall semester with Online courses, with the intention of being Online for the entire semester, from some posts there, I think a lot of students would want a Reduced rate per hour, if their  In-Seat courses become Online courses. 

In the case of UNC, I believe the number of International students, as a percentage of the Undergraduates, is quite small. The roommate of my DD is an International student. However, the loss of Athletics will be a kick in the bank account if there are no spectators in the stadiums when they play Basketball or Football, etc.

[regentrude]

8 minutes ago, Lanny said:

I read (not post in) the  Sub Reddit for UNC. That's only one school, but from reading some threads there, over the past month or so, I can tell you that if UNC begins the Fall semester with Online courses, with the intention of being Online for the entire semester, from some posts there, I think a lot of students would want a Reduced rate per hour, if their  In-Seat courses become Online courses. 

oh we all would want a lot of things.

We'd want to operate university with normal staffing level. We'd want paycuts to be small. We'd want our friends and colleagues and selves not to be fired.
Heck, we'd want the f-ing pandemic to end already.
Ain't nobody getting what they want.

Edited April 15, 2020 by regentrude

[8filltheheart]

I read on CC that Stanford announced that their tuition will not be decreased if they are online in the fall.

[Farrar]

They shouldn’t decrease tuition. But having seen the transition to online play out for some folks, they really need to do a better job in order to justify it.

Im especially baffled about why so many discussion classes have dropped the discussing and have zero live meetings. It seems to be on both ends - students don’t show up reportedly - teachers aren’t scheduling them... Maybe it’ll be better once they’ve gotten on their feet with it and expectations are clear going into a course.

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

Im especially baffled about why so many discussion classes have dropped the discussing and have zero live meetings. It seems to be on both ends - students don’t show up reportedly - teachers aren’t scheduling them... Maybe it’ll be better once they’ve gotten on their feet with it and expectations are clear going into a course.

When the sudden transition to online instruction happened, professors were explicitly told NOT to hold synchronous classes because students could not be expected to have the tech and internet connection, and because their family schedules might not allow them to log on during class time.
The students had not planned to sign up for an online class, were suddenly sent home to a place where they might not have internet access at all or have to share a connection with siblings and parents. (In the family of friends, the father who is a prof and two of the kids who are students have synchronous classes at the same time, and they simply don't have the bandwidth to stream three meetings)
So because of all of these factors, everybody was warned not to schedule synchronous meetings during class time, because we could not demand that students have online access to participate.  At the beginning of the transition, one of my colleagues polled his class of 500, and 25% of the students reported that they are anticipating having limited  or no internet connection at home! Many of the students at our state school live in rural areas.
This is very different from a situation where a class has been announced as online class from the beginning and students signed up fully knowing that the class would be online. In that case, I would expect students to have reliable internet.

It is only after several weeks of trying out online teaching that we have a better idea what percentage of our students actually has the ability to participate in live meetings, and that the students themselves have found ways to access the internet they were not aware of beforehand. Now several classes are actually adding live meetings when it has become clear that the percentage of students who are not able to participate is smaller than originally feared. Still, no student should be punished for not being able to log on at a specific time - after all, they didn't sign up for this; so any synchronous meeting may only be optional and has to be recorded and made available, and all in-live-class work has to have an alternative for the students who cannot participate.

ETA: For a prof, simply teaching the regular class in a live Zoom session  would be SO much easier and less time consuming than anything else they come up with. So, please, folks, it is not laziness. lazy would be to simply show up on Zoom and do business as usual.

Edited April 16, 2020 by regentrude

[RootAnn]

@regentrude Not all professors are trying as hard as you. Some professors are posting assignments, linking to recorded video lectures from past semesters, and answering emails. No teaching, no video office hours. Good luck teaching yourself or getting help from your fellow students.

You were right that just posting a list of assignments isn't teaching. But that is what some professors are doing. That is what some classes are currently composed of. Far too many, I'm sure.

I'm hopeful that colleges will be open in the fall - both for higher quality in person classes & for the extra curricular activities that make college so fulfilling.

[regentrude]

5 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

@regentrude Not all professors are trying as hard as you. Some professors are posting assignments, linking to recorded video lectures from past semesters, and answering emails. No teaching, no video office hours. Good luck teaching yourself or getting help from your fellow students.

Not sure what's wrong with reusing a video lecture from a past semester?

I consider a lecture teaching - whether that happens live in the classroom or per video, and the fact that the video has been recorded in the past does not change that. It's not different than a prof lecturing from the same notes every semester. I certainly do that - Newton's law hasn't changed, and a video of a force problem I recorded six years ago is still as current and accurate and pedagogically sound as if I were doing a new one.

Edited April 16, 2020 by regentrude

[Farrar]

My kid's community college prof didn't even link lectures and he definitely never responds to email. We have no idea what this grade is even going to be based on. There are sometimes assignments on Blackboard... without clear due dates. He had to take a test... and we had no idea if he was supposed to do it open book or not and the prof wouldn't respond to multiple emails asking for clarification. I've been trying to be hands off about it, but, oy.

I've heard some similar horror stories from parents and some students - not just at community college, but in all sorts of situations.

I am trying to just give it a breath and say whatever. A professor friend said after a couple of weeks of trying a lot of different things that he thought the whole semester just needed to take a mulligan and move on, which I know is hard for some students who need specific things, but I don't know what else can happen.

My main point though is that I think colleges and professors have to be able to ask for something more than this. And hopefully in the fall if things are online, everyone can plan for it and ask for things like actual discussion based meetings and assignments that require things that must be ordered or planned ahead of time. And then everyone can opt into the things that actually work for them. Because right now, I feel like a lot of this is a mess.

[littlebug42]

I have a theatre major and an art major, both struggling right now with online learning to finish their current semesters.  If their schools go online only in the fall, both of my kids may be sitting out a semester.  It is a waste of money and time for them to try to work on their degrees online, not to mention the major hit their GPAs are going to take because they are not doing well with the online stuff. 

[Storygirl]

I have a high school senior this year, so I've definitely been thinking a lot about this.

DD18 would not choose online classes as a first choice. And her major (exercise science) requires lab classes and other learning experiences that will not be the same online. I've thought about her taking a gap year, but I also have mixed feelings about that. She already has a roommate picked out, whom she is becoming good friends with, and she has other friends on campus, including her cousin, so there is definitely a social cost for her, if she delays going. But there is a large financial cost to our family, if we send her with looming uncertainty about whether she will be able to have the experience that we are expecting and paying $$$$$ for. But we also appreciate the small college that she will be attending (strong family connection on my DH's side) and know that the institution will suffer if most students decide not to start in the fall. And we wish good things for the college.

I don't know. I have asked DD to start thinking about whether she will be okay with her fall classes being online. It's a hard concept for her, because she has not done any college classes yet, and her only online experience has been over the past few weeks with her remote learning at her current high school. I've also asked her to think about whether she would rather take a gap year. I've suggested she start talking with her friends and cousin about this, as well, and that she should ask those who are already at the college to tell her how things are going with the current switch to online courses. DD is not prone to thinking through things like this without prompting, so I am trying to both prompt her to think a little bit, but I'm also trying not to stress her out about it.

If the college were to decide on a plan and release it, so that parents and incoming students could know what they are agreeing to, it would help a lot!! But I totally understand that colleges just don't know yet. No one knows.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Storygirl

[easypeasy]

It's my understanding that universities are wisely making provisions for at least three "what if" scenarios: beginning as planned in the fall on campus, beginning in the fall online, and postponing the semester until January and then continuing throughout the summer months for the second semester.

I think this planning is wise and necessary and, honestly, I would prefer a postponed first semester than loading DD up and moving her in for a couple of weeks and then having to transition over to ill-planned online courses again. At least this time, if it happens, the professors should be prepared with a contingency plan and already have an idea of what the course would consist of if moved online once again.

DD would prefer a postponed first semester in college than an online one. Neither of us are excited about wasting her scholarship $$ on online courses. 😕

[Bootsie]

15 hours ago, Lanny said:

M

IMO, if a university, especially a selective university, goes to "Online" courses for the Fall semester, they will need to lower what they charge per credit, substantially....  Online isn't the equivalent of the in-seat experience on the campus.

So, do you also expect restaurants that have carry out rather than dining service now to lower the cost of a meal, substantially, because picking up a meal, driving home while it gets cold, cleaning up after I finish isn't the equivalent of the in-seat experience in the restaurant? 

Many schools charge an additional remote learning fee in that they have found that there are added costs to providing online education.  Not only are there additional technological costs, there are issues that come up with the accrediting agencies and government regulations if their offerings are made online to students across state lines.  

[Bootsie]

1 hour ago, easypeasy said:

It's my understanding that universities are wisely making provisions for at least three "what if" scenarios: beginning as planned in the fall on campus, beginning in the fall online, and postponing the semester until January and then continuing throughout the summer months for the second semester.

I think this planning is wise and necessary and, honestly, I would prefer a postponed first semester than loading DD up and moving her in for a couple of weeks and then having to transition over to ill-planned online courses again. At least this time, if it happens, the professors should be prepared with a contingency plan and already have an idea of what the course would consist of if moved online once again.

DD would prefer a postponed first semester in college than an online one. Neither of us are excited about wasting her scholarship $$ on online courses. 😕

Yes, university administrators are working round the clock to come up with contingency plans.  And there are many moving parts to these plans.  Even the plan of starting back in the fall as scheduled is now complicated by a number of factors.  We have a fair number of students who were supposed to do international programs, internships, or other experiential learning this summer; often these were designed to meet particular core curriculum requirements.  So, will all of the students who were supposed to go to Rome during the summer and meet their globalization requirement going to need to take international finance or an advanced foreign language course to meet the globalization requirement before graduation next May?  Will students who have a required internship for their major that they were going to do over the summer, but that was cancelled, be able to do that during a regular semester with the times that classes are scheduled, or do many classes need to be moved to evening offerings?  Then there are issues of how is this going to impact the size of the incoming class; so, do some faculty need to be reassigned from teaching a freshman class to teaching an upper level class that meets a globalization requirement, etc.  

[regentrude]

9 hours ago, Farrar said:

My main point though is that I think colleges and professors have to be able to ask for something more than this. And hopefully in the fall if things are online, everyone can plan for it and ask for things like actual discussion based meetings and assignments that require things that must be ordered or planned ahead of time. And then everyone can opt into the things that actually work for them. Because right now, I feel like a lot of this is a mess.

Of course it's a mess. At my university, we had TWO DAYS notice that we would be teaching online. The fact that we did have all classes online  on that Monday after being told Saturday afternoon is a freaking miracle.
After a week of that, instructors were no longer permitted to enter the buildings to use the technology in the empty classrooms. At that time, you couldn't buy a webcam anymore. It all seems like an eternity, but let's keep in mind that it has only been four weeks. 

[8filltheheart]

I think one question that will factor into colleges' decisions will be what states require of people who test positive.  If people are required by law to self-isolate, what happens in a dorm situation? How will U's deal with roommates? Shared bathrooms? Food? etc.  It could become very complicated very quickly as it spreads through a dorm/campus.

[Lanny]

4 hours ago, Bootsie said:

So, do you also expect restaurants that have carry out rather than dining service now to lower the cost of a meal, substantially, because picking up a meal, driving home while it gets cold, cleaning up after I finish isn't the equivalent of the in-seat experience in the restaurant? 

Many schools charge an additional remote learning fee in that they have found that there are added costs to providing online education.  Not only are there additional technological costs, there are issues that come up with the accrediting agencies and government regulations if their offerings are made online to students across state lines.  

 

When we order food to be delivered to our house (Lunch is something we sometimes have delivered) they sometimes charge extra because of the disposable packaging that is required to pack the meals. Sometimes, delivery is included in the price and we add a Tip, other times, there is an explicit charge that is a lot more than we think it should be, so no Tip in that case. We are under a very strict quarantine, so the delivery service  is really good for us. Yesterday, for the first time, we ordered some groceries and they were delivered in an hour or so. The other supermarkets said they could deliver, but with a delay of 1 or 2 days. Again, being under very strict quarantine, that was great for us and what they added for Delivery was well worth it.  We can't go for the in-seat experience in the restaurant, because they might not be open for that and because only one person from our household is permitted to leave the house, to shop or go to the bank or pharmacy, and that is regulated  depending on the last digit of his National Identity Card (Cedula) number so that's one day a week.

Now, to the Online courses, which is the topic of this thread. I am quite familiar with Asynchronous courses, and the platforms, etc. used in them. My DD was in TTUISD for 7 school years, so she has been on 2 or 3 different platforms (Moodle was the first Learning Management System, Free to the schools, originally developed in Australia, and then there was at least one other that was not free.  Yes, the schools have costs for servers and infrastructure to delivery quality Online courses. Some things are free, but Hardware is not free and Internet connections are not free.

Yes, certainly, there are costs to developing and delivering quality Online courses.  And then there are the textbooks. DD began with traditional textbooks, and gradually courses were developed using eBooks. Both have their pros and cons. For us, Overseas, the eBooks were a blessing because there were no shipping costs and DD got them almost immediately.  

I have a lot of respect for the time it takes a school like TTUISD to develop new Online courses. DD waited, several times, much longer than expected, for a new course to be developed and then released and available for enrollment.  

A university, IMO, also needs to provide the best possible product to their Online course students that regentrude and others here are trying to provide to their Online students. Some Instructors, like regentrude, have the knowledge about how to do that and take the time to do that, and others, as some have described here, do the very minimum they can get away with and their students suffer.

There are also, of course, in-seat courses where the Instructors do a great job, or, in contrast, a terrible job. Students always suffer from poor instruction, whether in-seat or Online courses.

 

 

[Roadrunner]

11 hours ago, RootAnn said:

@regentrude Not all professors are trying as hard as you. Some professors are posting assignments, linking to recorded video lectures from past semesters, and answering emails. No teaching, no video office hours. Good luck teaching yourself or getting help from your fellow students.

You were right that just posting a list of assignments isn't teaching. But that is what some professors are doing. That is what some classes are currently composed of. Far too many, I'm sure.

I'm hopeful that colleges will be open in the fall - both for higher quality in person classes & for the extra curricular activities that make college so fulfilling.

 In our case a week has gone by without even an assignment being posted. And everything that has been posted so far was review. No new material covered in weeks. 

[regentrude]

I wanted to add another thought to the criticism about the current online instruction. I want to preface it by emphasizing that I am not excusing people who shirk their duties - but please think about the current work situation of the instructors before you judge:

They are at home and supposed to work full time. Their "office" is often the kitchen table or their bedroom. They are simultaneously taking care of their children who no longer can attend daycare or school. They are also supposed to handle, or at least supervise, their children's remote education (yes, we as homeschoooling parents know that can be done, but these people didn't sign up for it, had no time to prepare resources, and did I mention: they are working full time jobs.) I am not even going to mention all the havoc the anxiety about the pandemic may wreak - this board is full of reports of loss of focus, anxiety, mental struggles, worries about high risk loved ones...

I am extremely privileged as an empty nester with a dedicated work space in the home to be able to focus on my job without the conflicting pulls. 
Your kids' instructor may be teaching her online classes while holding a baby, deflecting a toddler tantrum, telling her 7 year old for the hundredth time that he cannot go out to play with his friends. Cut them some slack.

Edited April 16, 2020 by regentrude

[Farrar]

2 hours ago, regentrude said:

Of course it's a mess. At my university, we had TWO DAYS notice that we would be teaching online. The fact that we did have all classes online  on that Monday after being told Saturday afternoon is a freaking miracle.
After a week of that, instructors were no longer permitted to enter the buildings to use the technology in the empty classrooms. At that time, you couldn't buy a webcam anymore. It all seems like an eternity, but let's keep in mind that it has only been four weeks. 

Right, that is why I think everyone should take a breath and not be too harsh on this semester. But I also think - whether it's fair or not - that colleges are going to risk losing enrollment if they can't do it more effectively in the fall and show that they're going to do it more effectively. That's all. And I get why that might be incredibly hard. But I also get why it's a hard sell for families who are struggling to justify tuition for their kids if the class formats are still a mess online.

[katilac]

4 hours ago, regentrude said:

It all seems like an eternity, but let's keep in mind that it has only been four weeks. 

Time is very distorted right now! 

[Bootsie]

13 hours ago, regentrude said:

Not sure what's wrong with reusing a video lecture from a past semester?

I consider a lecture teaching - whether that happens live in the classroom or per video, and the fact that the video has been recorded in the past does not change that. It's not different than a prof lecturing from the same notes every semester. I certainly do that - Newton's law hasn't changed, and a video of a force problem I recorded six years ago is still as current and accurate and pedagogically sound as if I were doing a new one.

So much depends on the particular class.  Teaching a class on financial markets, I can't reuse previous lectures without some major alterations.  Our books still say "negative nominal interest rates would never occur."  But, wait, we have seen them in Europe--Oh, wait again, we have seen them in the US in the last couple of weeks.  

In addition to just getting things going for a class that wasn't designed for online learning, I have experienced faculty having a lot of other demands placed on their time.  Community Relations is calling saying that the media wants to talk to an expert.  HR wants everyone to fill connected and is sending out surveys to see if I am feeling sunny, partly cloudy, or stormy today.  IT wants me to attend a webinar on maintaining data security in an online classroom.  Our accrediting agency granted 120-day exemption from certain online teaching requirements--that does not extend all the way through the summer, so if we are teaching in the summer session we are having to go through additional training NOW.  We need to survey our students about their technology needs and we need to be monitoring the psychological impact on our students; all of this needs to be reported to Dean of Students.  And by the way, your team should host several coffee hours per week to stay in touch...  Oh, and couldn't you participate in the online Trivia Contest that a student organization is hosting to raise money to help those impacted?  The list goes on and on.    

 

[elegantlion]

2 hours ago, regentrude said:

I wanted to add another thought to the criticism about the current online instruction. I want to preface it by emphasizing that I am not excusing people who shirk their duties - but please think about the current work situation of the instructors before you judge:

They are at home and supposed to work full time. Their "office" is often the kitchen table or their bedroom. They are simultaneously taking care of their children who no longer can attend daycare or school. They are also supposed to handle, or at least supervise, their children's remote education (yes, we as homeschoooling parents know that can be done, but these people didn't sign up for it, had no time to prepare resources, and did I mention: they are working full time jobs.) I am not even going to mention all the havoc the anxiety about the pandemic may wreak - this board is full of reports of loss of focus, anxiety, mental struggles, worries about high risk loved ones...

I am extremely privileged as an empty nester with a dedicated work space in the home to be able to focus on my job without the conflicting pulls. 
Your kids' instructor may be teaching her online classes while holding a baby, deflecting a toddler tantrum, telling her 7 year old for the hundredth time that he cannot go out to play with his friends. Cut them some slack.

Yes, most of the professors I interact with have developed additional issues since moving online. Everything from Panopto crashing while trying to record content-heavy lectures, to multiple young children at home who are supposed to be doing school as well, which makes Internet bandwidth an issue if everyone is supposed to be online at the same time. Not to mention professors are not immune to the same fears and anxieties as their students. Personally, as a TA, I'm having a hard time juggling all the new online responsibilities with my own coursework, not to mention I've been sick myself for nearly 3 weeks (finally getting better!). I spend more time dealing with software compatibility issues - even for something as simple as ebook formats and zoom log in problems. 

State budget cuts have added to the uncertainty for fall. 

 

 

[regentrude]

29 minutes ago, elegantlion said:

Yes, most of the professors I interact with have developed additional issues since moving online. Everything from Panopto crashing ........ software compatibility issues - even for something as simple as ebook formats and zoom log in problems. 

Yep - and let's not forget that the colleges' IT support people are also working from home ... with the limited resources they could bring home., while swamped with increased demand. 
Which means many professors now have to solve their own IT problems on top of everything else. There's a reason colleges have support specialists for that.

Edited April 16, 2020 by regentrude

[Roadrunner]

I would have rather stop the class midway and then resume when possible. My DS is at this point just trying to learn on his own. 

[regentrude]

12 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I would have rather stop the class midway and then resume when possible. My DS is at this point just trying to learn on his own. 

That means that students would not be able to take new classes in the fall semester because they have not finished the prerequisite. Not only would they lose a semester, it also means no tuition revenue in the fall. Which means no funds to run the university and pay instructors and staff. Who then is supposed to teach those classes in the fall?
What should happen to the senior class that needs to graduate and start their jobs? 

If your DS' instructor is not teaching, he needs to complain to the department chair. Our chairs and vice provosts all do surveys to find out student satisfaction and see which instructors need more help and resources. 

Edited April 16, 2020 by regentrude

[Roadrunner]

10 minutes ago, regentrude said:

That means that students would not be able to take new classes in the fall semester because they have not finished the prerequisite. Not only would they lose a semester, it also means no tuition revenue in the fall. Which means no funds to run the university and pay instructors and staff. Who then is supposed to teach those classes in the fall?
What should happen to the senior class that needs to graduate and start their jobs? 

If your DS' instructor is not teaching, he needs to complain to the department chair. Our chairs and vice provosts all do surveys to find out student satisfaction and see which instructors need more help and resources. 

I would have loved a 3-4 week break to at least give teachers time to prep online materials or find videos to link.... 

Our teacher isn’t teaching and at this point we are considering this class a waste because transferring this credit to get to a higher level class is folly since he has learned so little. 

[regentrude]

8 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Our teacher isn’t teaching and at this point we are considering this class a waste because transferring this credit to get to a higher level class is folly since he has learned so little. 

I am sorry, that sucks. Has he brought up the issue with department head ?? They need to know when faculty aren't teaching, and if no improvement happens, it needs to be escalated to the Dean level.

[Roadrunner]

24 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I am sorry, that sucks. Has he brought up the issue with department head ?? They need to know when faculty aren't teaching, and if no improvement happens, it needs to be escalated to the Dean level.

he is a department head and an incredible teacher in the classroom. My Ds loves him and would never complain. We are sure he is overwhelmed. I don’t know that our complains will fix anything other than shut some doors for my DS. At this point we are lucky DS is young and has a chance at some point to retake this at a 4 year college. 
 

[....]

On 4/15/2020 at 8:31 AM, perkybunch said:

I suppose it may happen in some places, but I live in south Texas, and our numbers are low and our curve is pretty flat.  The university has rescheduled spring graduation for early August, and the local school district is rescheduling high school graduations for late July.  So I think here, things will open up for fall.

 

We're also in Texas and they announced that the summer session will be online, but I would be absolutely shocked if fall was online.  We don't have the same percentage of cases that other cities our size do.  Our public schools are supposed to go back May 4th.  I don't see why the colleges wouldn't go back in the fall.  Our governor is supposed to make some huge announcement on Friday, too (not sure if you saw that).

My daughter is taking off for the summer session, because she says the classes can't compare to what they were in person (no offense, college teachers).  She absolutely loved her teachers this semester and was having the time of her life (lol) until they switched to online.  She's still doing great GPA-wise, but it's not the same level of instruction.  She's disappointed about the summer, but it'll be ok.  No hard feelings, teachers.  I know they're doing the best they can....