wuhan - coronavirus

[KSera]

56 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Can we wait until kids can get vaccinated, please?!?! WHY does no one think they matter?  Some of them are higher risk as well!

Right? And people say they want kids back to school and such for the sake of their mental health, but now they seem to not want mitigation measures in place to make it safe for everyone. What about the mental health of the kids who won’t be able to attend school if people aren’t wearing masks or getting vaccinated?

[KSera]

3 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I’m not really sure what I think about relaxing mask requirements indoor.  This is a nursing home in my area:  https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rochesterfirst.com/news/local-news/27-residents-of-newark-clifton-springs-nursing-homes-test-positive-for-covid-19/amp/

24 out of the 27 Covid cases are fully vaccinated. The good news is they are asymptomatic and it was found through the routine testing of all residents.  The bad news is that 24 vaccinated people have Covid.

I wonder how many residents are in each of those nursing homes. It was 17 people in one nursing home and 10 in another. The really good news is they are asymptomatic, but I think this does show how elderly people aren’t as good at completely suppressing the virus.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

11 minutes ago, KSera said:

I wonder how many residents are in each of those nursing homes. It was 17 people in one nursing home and 10 in another. The really good news is they are asymptomatic, but I think this does show how elderly people aren’t as good at completely suppressing the virus.

These are smallish nursing homes.   I believe they’ve been contained to wings and all the infections are contained in the wings; so it’s 17 people in one wing and 10 in another. The wings contain 25-30 people.  The good news is none of the vaccinated people have symptoms, but it’s still concerning for transmission. 

[Catwoman]

8 hours ago, RootAnn said:

Dr Fauci says he thinks it might be time to start relaxing indoor mask requirements:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/09/health/us-coronavirus-sunday/index.html

Add me to the list of people who are NOT pleased about this at all.

Not enough people are vaccinated yet, and as Katie has already said, what about the kids?????

[Spy Car]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

Can we wait until kids can get vaccinated, please?!?! WHY does no one think they matter?  Some of them are higher risk as well!

I agree 100%.

Bill

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I’m not really sure what I think about relaxing mask requirements indoor.  This is a nursing home in my area:  https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rochesterfirst.com/news/local-news/27-residents-of-newark-clifton-springs-nursing-homes-test-positive-for-covid-19/amp/

24 out of the 27 Covid cases are fully vaccinated. The good news is they are asymptomatic and it was found through the routine testing of all residents.  The bad news is that 24 vaccinated people have Covid.

Eek

[RootAnn]

1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

Add me to the list of people who are NOT pleased about this at all.

I kept my feelings about it out of my post, but since others have commented, I'll say that Dr. Fauci's changing opinions are not doing the public or the response to the pandemic any favors. I know some people love him, but I'm not a fan. This is just the latest of the things he's said that will have to be explained & nuanced & maybe back-tracked. 

[Corraleno]

The really obnoxious thing about that nursing home outbreak is that while 80-90% of residents are vaccinated, only 35-45% of staff are. Vaccination really ought to be mandatory for all nursing home staff. I feel badly for the family of the unvaxxed resident who is currently hospitalized, especially if that person was unvaccinated for medical reasons.

[Not_a_Number]

15 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

I kept my feelings about it out of my post, but since others have commented, I'll say that Dr. Fauci's changing opinions are not doing the public or the response to the pandemic any favors. I know some people love him, but I'm not a fan. This is just the latest of the things he's said that will have to be explained & nuanced & maybe back-tracked. 

The man is 80. I have never thought of him as a particularly reliable source, frankly. 

He's a scientist and means well. He seems personally appealing. But that's about all he has going for him, from my perspective. He hasn't been a great source. 

I mean, he's better than one's crazy uncle on Facebook, that's for sure 😉 . But that's a low bar. I've far preferred listening to a range of people, some of whom are actually doing the research. 

[Wheres Toto]

I strongly disagree with the idea expressed in the article that lifting the restrictions will make it easier to reimplement them if necessary.   Once restrictions are lifted I think the vast majority of people will fight tooth and nail against them coming back.   Not to mention, by the time we realize things are going badly enough, it may be too late. 

[Ausmumof3]

WHO has called the Indian variants as being “of concern at a global level”.  Sorry some of the other info in this article is less than nice reading.  Separately there is apparently an increase in mucormycosis - a fungal infection that thrives with lowered immune systems.  Possibly COVID related.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-11/covid-india-who-bodies-wash-up-on-banks-of-ganges-river/100130032

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2021-05-10/covid-19-explainer-india-black-fungus-mucormycosis/100127850

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Wheres Toto said:

I strongly disagree with the idea expressed in the article that lifting the restrictions will make it easier to reimplement them if necessary.   Once restrictions are lifted I think the vast majority of people will fight tooth and nail against them coming back.   Not to mention, by the time we realize things are going badly enough, it may be too late. 

Agreed. 

All I know is I'm keeping my kids out of indoor activities until they are vaxxed, period. And I'm going to mask for outdoor activities. 

[Ausmumof3]

3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

The man is 80. I have never thought of him as a particularly reliable source, frankly. 

He's a scientist and means well. He seems personally appealing. But that's about all he has going for him, from my perspective. He hasn't been a great source. 

I mean, he's better than one's crazy uncle on Facebook, that's for sure 😉 . But that's a low bar. I've far preferred listening to a range of people, some of whom are actually doing the research. 

I respect him for speaking out when no one else was willing to.  But it doesn’t mean I take every word he says as gospel truth.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Ausmumof3 said:

I respect him for speaking out when no one else was willing to.  But it doesn’t mean I take every word he says as gospel truth.

Right. I think he's a man of integrity. But I don't think he's very flexible. 

ETA: DH says he was actually always the same: lots of integrity, not quick to move with the data. 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Ausmumof3]

2 minutes ago, Wheres Toto said:

I strongly disagree with the idea expressed in the article that lifting the restrictions will make it easier to reimplement them if necessary.   Once restrictions are lifted I think the vast majority of people will fight tooth and nail against them coming back.   Not to mention, by the time we realize things are going badly enough, it may be too late. 

It may depend how it plays out.  In Aus because we’ve had multiple short term lockdowns most people aren’t too worried because they assume it’s only going to be a weekend or so.  But probably where people have dealt with much longer periods of restriction they wont respond the same way.

[Melissa in Australia]

India serious undercounting of dead confirmed in one area by journalists 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-56969086

[Ausmumof3]

Melbourne has a new case that appears to have caught Covid in Hotel quarantine here in SA 😞 

[Kanin]

14 hours ago, Wheres Toto said:

Not to mention, by the time we realize things are going badly enough, it may be too late.

Which has been happening over and over this whole time, so I fully agree with you!

[Ausmumof3]

3 hours ago, Dreamergal said:

Latest in India.

India Covid: Dozens of bodies wash up on banks of Ganges river - BBC News

11 patients die in Andhra Pradesh hospital after oxygen tanker delayed (msn.com)

There is this scary thing from people who are diabetics and recovered from COVID

Mucormycosis: The 'black fungus' maiming Covid patients in India - BBC News

There are bright spots though as one must look for them. Two hotspots before now steadily declining. These are metropolises, Delhi is like DC (capital) and Mumbai is like NY (entertainment) 

Delhi records 12K Covid-19 cases, 347 deaths, positivity rate reduced to half in 20 days | Hindustan Times

Mumbai’s positivity rate falls to 6.06%, deaths remain a concern | Hindustan Times

Please remember India in your prayers and send your good thoughts. Thank you. 🙏

It seems like the wave of cases is passing then which is positive.

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/brazil-health-agency-calls-halt-astrazeneca-vaccine-pregnant-women-2021-05-11/
 

Brazil has suspended use of the Astra Zeneca vaccine in pregnant women after a woman died of stroke following the vaccination.

 

"The serious adverse event of a hemorrhagic stroke was assessed as possibly related to the use of the vaccine given to the pregnant woman," Anvisa said in a statement.

AstraZeneca said in a statement that pregnant women and those breastfeeding were excluded from clinical trials of its COVID-19 vaccine. Studies in animals did not produce direct or indirect evidence of harm regarding pregnancy or fetal development, the statement added.

Anvisa said it had not been informed of any other adverse events in pregnant women receiving the vaccine.”

[Ausmumof3]

Genomic testing has shown that the latest case in Melbourne was caught in hotel quarantine here on SA.  The infected person was in a room next to someone who tested positive and was moved to the Covid positive hotel the day the person left so possibly was picked up in the corridor via aerosols or something.

 

There is talk of using a facility here to manufacture mRNA vaccines locally.  I don’t know much more but it seems promising.

[Starr]

36 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

There is talk of using a facility here to manufacture mRNA vaccines locally.  I don’t know much more but it seems promising.

I hope that works out.

[KSera]

3 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

The infected person was in a room next to someone who tested positive and was moved to the Covid positive hotel the day the person left so possibly was picked up in the corridor via aerosols or something.

Where is Australia now on the acknowledgment that Covid is airborne? I know Australia and Canada were both among countries very reluctant to do so, but I’m wondering if that has changed now with the WHO acknowledgment. 

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

I do not have scientific evidence to back what I am saying, but anecdotally I will say I am not liking what I am seeing with the Astra Zeneca Vaccine when it comes to COVID protection against the Indian variant based on how Pfizer and Moderna work.

Lots of serious cases and the only reason they are not in hospital is because the system is collapsing. People with two shots and especially females seem to be hit hard and it does not vary between pre-existing conditions or not.

What groups are you comparing? 

[Not_a_Number]

9 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

Nothing remotely scientific. Just an observation based on protections of Pfizer and Moderna two shot vs Astra Zeneca two shot.

ETA:  I do not know anyone who has had COVID in the US after the vaccine. I know lots who have had COVID and isolating after the Astra Zeneca two shot vaccine. Unless the Indian variant itself plays a part.

ETA2: This time around, entire families seem to be affected. The first round only one member was affected. Others tested negative. This Indian strain especially seems to be more contagious, Again anecdotal observation.

Do you have an anecdotal comparison between people who were vaxxed and people who weren't? 

[Corraleno]

58 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

Pretty much all these women had fever over a 100, GI issues, cold, chills, headache. No breathing issues and oxygen saturation was above 95.All had one shot which should give them 81% efficacy. Some of them just after the second shot so they thought it was vaccine symptoms at first.

I'm not sure where that stat came from, but I don't think there's any way a single shot of AZ would have anything close to 80% efficacy in India. The dominant variant in India is quite similar to the South African and Brazilian variants — all three have the E484K/Q mutation, and AZ's efficacy against mild to moderate illness in SA was only 10% after two shots. If the people you know in India who are getting covid after the AZ vaccine are having mild to moderate symptoms, but not being hospitalized, that in itself may indicate some protection from the vaccine. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Corraleno
typos

[Ausmumof3]

6 hours ago, KSera said:

Where is Australia now on the acknowledgment that Covid is airborne? I know Australia and Canada were both among countries very reluctant to do so, but I’m wondering if that has changed now with the WHO acknowledgment. 

I don’t think they have officially acknowledged it yet but the language used is changing so I think it’s not far off.  

[KSera]

3 hours ago, Dreamergal said:

 

I cried yesterday when I read that tweet. I cannot imagine this lovely young lady living what is for many our greatest fear, not seeing our parents alive again. It is certainly mine and DH's. She is a pathologist in Alabama. Sadly and horrifyingly, this is not a rarity. 

This is what COVID is. This is what COVID does. It has decimated families, leaving children orphans or without a parent, widows, widowers, losing parents. These are people with lives, families, loved ones and that is to me the hardest to see. The toll on an entire nation and it's people. And it is not just one nation. Other smaller, less equipped  nations who knows what price was paid.

Please pray for India and send your good thoughts. Thank you. 🙏

I don’t know anyone with family in India right now whose family is untouched. That alone tells me the numbers can’t be right. So many people were just preparing to fly home to India to visit their parents before this started 😢. 

[Ausmumof3]

Apparently used oxygen cylinders from climbers on Everest are possibly being refilled and donated to help Nepal.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/12/world/asia/nepal-everest-oxygen-covid.html

[Ausmumof3]

https://amp.theguardian.com/global-development/commentisfree/2021/may/11/nepal-says-its-covid-response-is-under-control-everyone-can-see-its-not-true?__twitter_impression=true
 

More from Nepal 😞 

600 ventilators for a country of 30,000,000

[Ausmumof3]

Cases and deaths worldwide seem to be dropping on worldometer though I’m not sure how that means given the issues with reliable data etc from many countries.  Hopefully it’s a positive sign.

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-13/moderna-pfizer-mrna-covid-vaccine-update/100136886
 

Australia has finally got a deal going with Moderna for later in the year.  All this feels quite hypothetical right now but promising.

[mommyoffive]

CDC to announce that fully vaccinated people can drop masks pretty much everywhere except healthcare settings (msn.com)

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

CDC to announce that fully vaccinated people can drop masks pretty much everywhere except healthcare settings (msn.com)

The problem I have with this, is that we have no way of knowing if the unmasked people are actually vaccinated. So many people are looking for any excuse to stop wearing masks, and while I hate to say this, I just don't trust people to do the right thing for the sake of protecting others. 

Sigh.

[ktgrok]

4 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

CDC to announce that fully vaccinated people can drop masks pretty much everywhere except healthcare settings (msn.com)

I'm glad if only so that people are more likely to GET vaccinated. 

I'll be keeping mine on when I'm with my kids, who can't b vaccinaed, out of solidarity if nothing else. 

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

The problem I have with this, is that we have no way of knowing if the unmasked people are actually vaccinated. So many people are looking for any excuse to stop wearing masks, and while I hate to say this, I just don't trust people to do the right thing for the sake of protecting others. 

Sigh.

So true. 

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

The problem I have with this, is that we have no way of knowing if the unmasked people are actually vaccinated. So many people are looking for any excuse to stop wearing masks, and while I hate to say this, I just don't trust people to do the right thing for the sake of protecting others. 

Sigh.

Yeah, agreed. 

And what about those of us with little kids? 😞 What, the kids are supposed to be the only ones masking now? I'm not taking my mask off until my kids are vaxxed, that's for sure. 

[Not_a_Number]

5 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I'm glad if only so that people are more likely to GET vaccinated. 

I'll be keeping mine on when I'm with my kids, who can't b vaccinaed, out of solidarity if nothing else. 

Oh, I see you just said what I did, sigh. 

[mommyoffive]

6 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

The problem I have with this, is that we have no way of knowing if the unmasked people are actually vaccinated. So many people are looking for any excuse to stop wearing masks, and while I hate to say this, I just don't trust people to do the right thing for the sake of protecting others. 

Sigh.

If the last year plus has taught me one thing it is that.  

Yeah I am not ready to do this.  100% agree with the kids angle.   I am worried for my 3 who can't get a vaccine yet.  

[Penelope]

8 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yeah, agreed. 

And what about those of us with little kids? 😞 What, the kids are supposed to be the only ones masking now? I'm not taking my mask off until my kids are vaxxed, that's for sure. 

I think that in some areas and schools, we will be doing away with masks in young children as well, even before they are able to be vaccinated.

Many European schools never required masks for primary school children, for example. 

I think we overdid it in the US in masking 5 and under. 

But I agree that it is not okay to have the kids be the only ones masked. If that’s the way it is, I’m keeping mine on, too. I might do that even if I had no kids, in solidarity. It seems cruel, actually. 

[Not_a_Number]

41 minutes ago, Penelope said:

I think that in some areas and schools, we will be doing away with masks in young children as well, even before they are able to be vaccinated.

Many European schools never required masks for primary school children, for example. 

I think we overdid it in the US in masking 5 and under. 

I wouldn't try to put a mask on a toddler, but my 4-year-old didn't have major issues. At least, her issues with masks were much smaller than her issues with pants, and pants are really not optional in this family, especially in a Boston winter 😉 . 

Anyway, I'm having my kids mask mostly because I don't want them to either get sick or to spread it to their grandparents (who are vaccinated but I still don't love the idea.) So it's not because someone's making us. I'm planning to open things up a LOT this summer, but I feel a lot better doing that with masks than without. 

 

41 minutes ago, Penelope said:

But I agree that it is not okay to have the kids be the only ones masked. If that’s the way it is, I’m keeping mine on, too. I might do that even if I had no kids, in solidarity. It seems cruel, actually. 

That's kind of you 🙂 . 

[KSera]

1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

The problem I have with this, is that we have no way of knowing if the unmasked people are actually vaccinated. So many people are looking for any excuse to stop wearing masks, and while I hate to say this, I just don't trust people to do the right thing for the sake of protecting others. 

Sigh.

 

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

I'm glad if only so that people are more likely to GET vaccinated.

The problem is that I don't think this is going to have this effect whatsoever. The people who don't intend to ever get vaccinated are the same ones who have been screaming about masks this whole time, and they will drop their masks immediately, without getting vaccinated. Some of those same people might have decided to finally get vaccinated if that was what was needed to get more things able to open up. I think this makes things suddenly much LESS safe to open up. Fortunately, much of the US has pretty low cases right now, so in those areas with low cases and good vaccination rates, it might go okay. Those places with low cases but also low vaccination rates, I expect will see some resurgence. Perhaps it will wait until Fall though (which isn't good either, because we have had a really good shot at things being normal in fall if people get vaccinated). Ugh.

Just like it was never true that those wearing masks were less careful about social distancing (studies showed they were more careful than those who didn't wear masks), it doesn't seem at all likely that those who don't want to be vaccinated are suddenly going to decide to keep wearing masks and social distancing for the sake of keeping their communities safe. And the people who genuinely can't be vaccinated, or whose immune systems make the vaccine not very effective, will suffer most of all. They will keep wearing masks, but without the unvaccinated being masked, they will still be at elevated risk.

 

As far as preschoolers go, I think people make much ado about nothing with that. Masks are a non event for my preschooler and all the others I know. Kids follow their parents' leads at that age. The only ones traumatized by it are the ones whose parents are constantly on about how terrible and traumatizing it is for them.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, KSera said:

Those places with low cases but also low vaccination rates, I expect will see some resurgence. Perhaps it will wait until Fall though (which isn't good either, because we have had a really good shot at things being normal in fall if people get vaccinated). Ugh.

I would guess it won't wait until fall. I've been watching the vaccination maps, and the areas with the lowest rates are HOT in the summer and people are probably indoors with AC then. (It's largely the South that isn't getting vaxxed.) 

 

2 minutes ago, KSera said:

As far as preschoolers go, I think people make much ado about nothing with that. Masks are a non event for my preschooler and all the others I know. Kids follow their parents' leads at that age. The only ones traumatized by it are the ones whose parents are constantly on about how terrible and traumatizing it is for them.

I agree. I think kids are largely reflecting their parents' opinions on this one. I'm sure there are exceptions to that rule, but that's about 90% of it. 

[Terabith]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

I'm glad if only so that people are more likely to GET vaccinated. 

I'll be keeping mine on when I'm with my kids, who can't b vaccinaed, out of solidarity if nothing else. 

I do not think people are more likely to get vaccinated.  I think they are more likely to lie about vaccination status.  

I'm not happy about it.  It makes me feel less safe.  

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Terabith said:

I do not think people are more likely to get vaccinated.  I think they are more likely to lie about vaccination status.  

I'm not happy about it.  It makes me feel less safe.  

True. I had a moment of optimism I think. 

[Penelope]

I think some will get vaccinated because of a masking change.

Only a certain subset, but I think the people who were waiting to see what happened with vaccination and restrictions might decide to go ahead and do it. This group doesn’t think Covid is a hoax, but are on the fence about whether to get a shot. If there are no more public precautions, this might push them a little. And we are still at that place where disease is down, but there is still significant risk out there.

I have heard some say they are not against a vaccine, but that there is no motivation to get one if there is still widespread masking and if most people are still limiting their pre-pandemic activities. It might not be most people who feel this way, but there are some. 

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by Penelope

[RootAnn]

I went to the local high school's baccalaureate last night (invites said masks were required). Very, very few people were masked (6/65). No social distancing  (unless you count the musicians being about 3 ft apart or the one guy in the balcony all alone - and masked!). I would guess very few there have been vaccinated. 

One of my close friends who I haven't seen since she showed up at my door after most of her family tested positive for Covid asked me if I'm done "cowering in fear at home." I replied with a big smile that I'm done cowering now that my 5G chips have been installed and activated. I mean, one ludicrous comment deserves another, right?

Anyway, businesses will now have an even tougher time. Do they still ask everyone to mask? I feel like the only ones still masking will likely be the very people who are fully vaccinated. Locally, many people have stopped complying with the requests on outer doors to wear a mask. Vaccination rates are pretty good here among the elderly but dismal among the younger (55 & under) cohorts.

Edited May 13, 2021 by RootAnn

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, RootAnn said:

I went to the local high school's baccalaureate last night (invites said masks were required). Very, very few people were masked (6/65). No social distancing  (unless you count the musicians being about 3 ft apart or the one guy in the balcony all alone - and masked!). I would guess very few there have been vaccinated. 

One of my close friends who I haven't seen since she showed up at my door after most of her family tested positive for Covid asked me if I'm done "cowering in fear at home." I replied with a big smile that I'm done cowering now that my 5G chips have been installed and activated. I mean, one ludicrous comment deserves another, right?

Anyway, businesses will now have an even tougher time. Do they still ask everyone to mask? I feel like the only ones still masking will likely be the very people who are fully vaccinated. Locally, many people have stopped complying with the requests on outer doors to wear a mask. Vaccination rates are pretty good here among the elderly but dismal among the younger (55 & under) cohorts.

I’m sorry your friend was so rude 😞 

[Wheres Toto]

4 hours ago, KSera said:

As far as preschoolers go, I think people make much ado about nothing with that. Masks are a non event for my preschooler and all the others I know. Kids follow their parents' leads at that age. The only ones traumatized by it are the ones whose parents are constantly on about how terrible and traumatizing it is for them.

I run a business teaching classes to homeschoolers.  We have kids in classes from 2 1/2 on up to 18, with quite a few in the 2 1/2 to 7 year old range.  Yes, it definitely seems to come down to how the parents treat it.  The vast majority of kids barely seem to notice the masks.   

[bookbard]

Just wanted to update re MIL: she's made a full recovery and is back at her nursing home. Of course she still has all her underlying issues (cancer, diabetes, heart) but she's back to where she was before the vaccination. Apparently it can really knock people around if they're already medically fragile, and so that's why she ended up so ill. 

Anyone over 50 can now get vaccinated in Australia but I think people are reluctant as Covid is a pretty distant threat (until the next outbreak, right?) People under 50 who are medical staff etc can get Pfizer and I think 40-49 with medical issues? To be honest I haven't heard any government adverts about the vaccine or what the story is - it's been so poorly done. I can't understand why it's so easy to get a flu vaccine and yet the covid vaccine has been a schemozzle.