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17 minutes ago, bookbard said:

Just wanted to update re MIL: she's made a full recovery and is back at her nursing home. Of course she still has all her underlying issues (cancer, diabetes, heart) but she's back to where she was before the vaccination. Apparently it can really knock people around if they're already medically fragile, and so that's why she ended up so ill. 

Anyone over 50 can now get vaccinated in Australia but I think people are reluctant as Covid is a pretty distant threat (until the next outbreak, right?) People under 50 who are medical staff etc can get Pfizer and I think 40-49 with medical issues? To be honest I haven't heard any government adverts about the vaccine or what the story is - it's been so poorly done. I can't understand why it's so easy to get a flu vaccine and yet the covid vaccine has been a schemozzle. 

My parents have been vaccinated - it made them tired and headachey but they are ok now.  I kind of wish they’d had Pfizer because I suspect they will need a booster for variants and it was hard on them the first time.

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3 hours ago, Penelope said:

I think some will get vaccinated because of a masking change.

Only a certain subset, but I think the people who were waiting to see what happened with vaccination and restrictions might decide to go ahead and do it. This group doesn’t think Covid is a hoax, but are on the fence about whether to get a shot. If there are no more public precautions, this might push them a little. And we are still at that place where disease is down, but there is still significant risk out there.

I have heard some say they are not against a vaccine, but that there is no motivation to get one if there is still widespread masking and if most people are still limiting their pre-pandemic activities. It might not be most people who feel this way, but there are some. 

 

I hadn’t thought of it that way, but I hope you’re right!

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5 hours ago, Dreamergal said:

India update.

Still grim. Seeing a lot of patterns and trying to make sense. 

The numbers seem to be falling officially but on the ground I can say, hospitals are still not available, lock down continues in many states and may be extended. The peak numbers are not yet there per models.

Many states have run out of vaccines. 

But still we need to look at the good.

Good news: Temple and church turn into vaccination centers in Mumbai | IndiaToday

On a personal note, something that I have been having a hard time to make sense of is a profound sense of grief where I endlessly cry when all of my family is safe. It is probably because I have a ringside seat to a gargantuan tragedy that is unfolding. This column explains better.

Op-ed: India is my soul, and it is on fire as COVID-19 ravages it - Chicago Tribune

Please pray and send your good thoughts. Thank you. 🙏

Continuing to pray for India. I’m so sorry this is happening!

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6 hours ago, Terabith said:

Apparently epidemiologists think the CDC removing the need for vaccinated people to wear masks is not great.  

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/13/upshot/epidemiologists-coronavirus-masks.html

I think they are caving to political pressure. I have not been happy with the CDC through this whole thing. That said, the best people for making these decisions - the pandemic response team - were fired at the beginning of the last administration so I think the agency has run a bit like feral cats thus the inconsistent messaging. We already had trouble with people over masks here in my region of Michigan so all this is going to do is give the anti-vax crowd a good reason to lie about their status. They will be spreading it amongst themselves and the question is "Will we get a vaccine resistant mutation of the damn thing?" Totally possible!

I keep hoping more colleges and universities will require it. That said, we are seeing fairly good rates of that group being willing to get it. Of the three colleges we are associated with, two are requiring it. The other, one that we will be mentoring a college rocket team at, is not. However, they are making access to some extracurricular activities dependent on it. Rocket team is one. No vax, no admittance to the team because the team travels and will at times be interacting with colleges that did require it. I have also heard locally that the high school sports coaches are sick of dealing with the protocols and though the school administration has not made it a requirement to participate, the coaches have been hinting to the students that if they want to play next year and not be warming the bench, they better tell their parents to get them the vaccine. I do NOT like manipulative tactics used on minors, but it isn't like this kind of heavy handedness is new in high school sports. Parents have allowed it for a whole host of other reasons, "winning", so I suspect there will be very little push back. Coaches get away with pretty much anything around here!

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It’s a good thing that masking will still be implemented in airports. Singapore has an outbreak that seems to have started with fully vaccinated airport workers.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-changi-airport-cluster-household-contacts-b1617-variant-14787262

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-changi-airport-b1617-mutant-virus-local-cases-14809062

 

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20 minutes ago, Penelope said:

It’s a good thing that masking will still be implemented in airports. Singapore has an outbreak that seems to have started with fully vaccinated airport workers.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-changi-airport-cluster-household-contacts-b1617-variant-14787262

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-changi-airport-b1617-mutant-virus-local-cases-14809062

This does not bode well, especially as Singapore has been vaxxing, as far as I can find out, pretty much exclusively with the two mRNA vaccines, which I'd been hoping would be more protective against this variant -  and maybe they are 'more' protective compared to nothing or even an adenovirus vax, but obviously not enough to start strutting about unmasked...

That India variant is scary...

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58 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Taiwan also has an outbreak of around 200 now after escaping unscathed for so long.  Also I think the Indian variant (sorry I’m not trying to be racist using these terms I’m just finding it hard to remember the different numbers)

I can’t remember the numbers, either!  🙂 

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1 hour ago, iamonlyone said:

I think this article is so interesting about what was going on behind the scenes with determining COVID is airborne:

https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/

I am so thankful for all the brilliant and hardworking people who have worked so hard during the pandemic for the common good.

Wow, thank you so much for posting this absolutely brilliant article. It explains so much. 

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A weak positive found in Wellington's sewage.  They are saying it is so weak that it is likely due to the THREE people who live in Wellington that had Covid in Quarantine two weeks ago and have been released back to their home in Wellington. So these people are shedding old weak virus. They are saying that the test is sensitive enough to detect 10 people in 100k people's poo. Wow. That is a pretty sensitive test, and with a lot of mixing to spread it out so the test picked up a piece (eeewww). They are testing more right now to make sure that there is not a few contagious cases here. We have opened up to Australia without quarantine, so there could be untracked cases from there, perhaps.  

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/125147077/explainer-the-science-behind-covid19-being-found-in-wellingtons-wastewater

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5 hours ago, iamonlyone said:

I think this article is so interesting about what was going on behind the scenes with determining COVID is airborne:

https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/

I am so thankful for all the brilliant and hardworking people who have worked so hard during the pandemic for the common good.

Fascinating,  thanks.

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9 hours ago, iamonlyone said:

I think this article is so interesting about what was going on behind the scenes with determining COVID is airborne:

https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/

I am so thankful for all the brilliant and hardworking people who have worked so hard during the pandemic for the common good.

Great article! And wow about flu and other disease spread being impacted by this! 

But mostly, what a crazy interdisciplinary hunt for the truth! Also, I didn't know atmoshpheric chemists were a thing. Learned a ton, and made me appreciate scientists even more!

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Cautious good news! On March 2, the governor of Texas removed our statewide mask mandate.  Our numbers keep going down. 

And we woke up this morning to Statewide: Only 388 Confirmed Cases over the weekend. And 0 new deaths.  We'll see what happens early this week (We usually catch up by Tuesday) but we haven't had case numbers this small since March 2020. Not even on weekends.

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1 hour ago, vonfirmath said:

Cautious good news! On March 2, the governor of Texas removed our statewide mask mandate.  Our numbers keep going down. 

And we woke up this morning to Statewide: Only 388 Confirmed Cases over the weekend. And 0 new deaths.  We'll see what happens early this week (We usually catch up by Tuesday) but we haven't had case numbers this small since March 2020. Not even on weekends.

I have been happy to see the numbers continue to go down. I will say only about 60% maybe of the folks were wearing masks regularly anyway (more in some places like grocery stores, less in hardware or tool stores). But after the CDC fully vaccinated folks don't have to wear masks, that percentage has went down again. 

I hope the numbers continue to stay low or go down. With so few sick, maybe they won't spread it much. 

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2 hours ago, vonfirmath said:

Cautious good news! On March 2, the governor of Texas removed our statewide mask mandate.  Our numbers keep going down. 

And we woke up this morning to Statewide: Only 388 Confirmed Cases over the weekend. And 0 new deaths.  We'll see what happens early this week (We usually catch up by Tuesday) but we haven't had case numbers this small since March 2020. Not even on weekends.

I'm always cautious unless positivity is going down too - is it? Here we like to advertise lower case numbers sometimes that are an artifact of less testing being done. But i'm cynical that way at this point. 

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13 hours ago, iamonlyone said:

I think this article is so interesting about what was going on behind the scenes with determining COVID is airborne:

https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/

I am so thankful for all the brilliant and hardworking people who have worked so hard during the pandemic for the common good.

This was a great share. I’ve been reading Linsey Marr since earlier in the pandemic, and have seen her and other aerosol scientists like Kimberly Prather work SO hard to get the greater scientific community to accept that this disease was airborne. I could never figure out why it took so long to be acknowledged. If anyone else is interested in this stuff, both are very active on Twitter:

Marr: https://mobile.twitter.com/linseymarr

Prather: 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I'm always cautious unless positivity is going down too - is it? Here we like to advertise lower case numbers sometimes that are an artifact of less testing being done. But i'm cynical that way at this point. 

The latest date for number of tests is 5/15.

47K Molecular tests

17.1 K Antigen tests

(not sure what the difference is but they break them out)

 

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13 hours ago, iamonlyone said:

I think this article is so interesting about what was going on behind the scenes with determining COVID is airborne:

https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/

I am so thankful for all the brilliant and hardworking people who have worked so hard during the pandemic for the common good.

I saw this last night and hoped someone would post it or start a thread. Thanks!

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13 hours ago, iamonlyone said:

I think this article is so interesting about what was going on behind the scenes with determining COVID is airborne:

https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/

I am so thankful for all the brilliant and hardworking people who have worked so hard during the pandemic for the common good.

Dr. Tufecki’s newsletter is good, too.https://www.theinsight.org/p/the-few-sentences-that-explain-much

I am probably missing some of the subtleties on this, but I think some of this dichotomy is overblown and maybe is more of a scientist “turf war” thing in the semantics of it.  I have heard experts acknowledge all year that transmission is over dispersed and that some part of the transmission comes from smaller particles. It was never a dichotomy of droplet vs. aerosol, from what I could see. 
 

What has been said for many months is that contact tracing has shown that most infections happen with relatively close contact, which is reflected in the R0. Some occur because of further spread through air, but if more did, we would have a measles situation with a very high R0. I have seen ventilation stressed since at least last summer, but the trouble was that most everyone was stuck on their disinfecting, plexiglass, and 6 feet protocols already from March 2020. We have known that almost no transmission happens outside and that we don’t need masks outside for a year, but outdoor masking became a symbol.

 

Edited by Penelope
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2 hours ago, KSera said:

that this disease was airborne. I could never figure out why it took so long to be acknowledged. 

My dad installed a UV filter in his air conditioning vent in his house in JULY of last year. He has worked in public health his whole life. He knew. 

In the 60's when he was a resident at Duke Medical Center, they used UV lights in the operating theaters, and kept them ON during surgery.  All of the doctors had to have all their skin covered and wear a billed hat to protect their face.  This was long enough ago, that apparently it had been forgotten, and he had a friend from Duke Medical School call him last year to chat, and my dad brought it up.  The guy was shocked that this had been standard practice, and my dad found the 1949 paper for him with the evidence that it worked. haha. I guess medical historians do not equal hospital administrators. 

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3 minutes ago, lewelma said:

My dad installed a UV filter in his air conditioning vent in his house in JULY of last year. He has worked in public health his whole life. He knew. 

In the 60's when he was a resident at Duke Medical Center, they used UV lights in the operating theaters, and kept them ON during surgery.  All of the doctors had to have all their skin covered and wear a billed hat to protect their face.  This was long enough ago, that apparently it had been forgotten, and he had a friend from Duke Medical School call him last year to chat, and my dad brought it up.  The guy was shocked that this had been standard practice, and my dad found the 1949 paper for him with the evidence that it worked. haha. I guess medical historians do not equal hospital administrators. 

I work for an ac firm and along about July last year they came through and installed something on all our AC units. I wonder if it was a filter. We've never had any issues with COVID in the office though we did have some out on the job sites. (Though those were traced back to people living/commuting together as I recall)

Edited by vonfirmath
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2 hours ago, Penelope said:

I am probably missing some of the subtleties on this, but I think some of this dichotomy is overblown and maybe is more of a scientist “turf war” thing in the semantics of it.  I have heard experts acknowledge all year that transmission is over dispersed and that some part of the transmission comes from smaller particles. It was never a dichotomy of droplet vs. aerosol, from what I could see. 

I think there has been somewhat of a turf war, but that the semantics have been important, because they have real world implications. I think this has been a far bigger deal in Canada than the US, from what I can gather, especially for health care workers and PPE. There were many places outright denying there could be aerosol spread. 

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Early stages but seems like this may be a promising treatment long term.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-17/queensland-coronavirus-antiviral-treatment-covid-19/100144370
 

Queensland researchers and a US team have developed an antiviral therapy that has killed off the COVID-19 viral load in infected mice by 99.9 per cent.

Key points:

  • Gene-silencing RNA technology is used to destroy the COVID-19 virus genome directly and stops the virus replicating
  • The treatment could be available as early as 2023, depending on the next phase of clinical trials
  • The research has been published in Molecular Therapy

 

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Periodic Scotland update-

Some opening up today.  BBC News - Covid in Scotland: Hugs and indoor socialising as rules ease
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-57136624

I was in two supermarkets today, however, and pretty good distancing and universal masking were in place.

We still don't know the implications of the variant discovered in India - so far the government is saying that most of those badly affected were unvaccinated although they were eligible. I don't have statistics for that though.  This is what the current average situation looks like-

Test positivity 1.4 per cent. 68 percent of adults have had at least one jab, but not all cohorts are open yet.

Screenshot_20210517-221018_Chrome.jpg

Edited by Laura Corin
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Flights are back on here from India but they seem to have been a bit of a debacle.  The first flight came back at 50pc capacity because so many tested positive and weren’t able to fly.  Now it seems that the testing process may have been flawed or faulty.  Very disappointing for those expecting to come back.

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2 hours ago, KSera said:

I think there has been somewhat of a turf war, but that the semantics have been important, because they have real world implications. I think this has been a far bigger deal in Canada than the US, from what I can gather, especially for health care workers and PPE. There were many places outright denying there could be aerosol spread. 

Yes, it is an issue here.  Covid is treated as droplet in hospitals in Ontario.  That affects PPE practices for HCW and patient flow practices (suspected covid patients in emergency departments can sit in the same space as other patients as long as masked and 2m apart).  We use airborne precautions only for aerosol generating procedures. 

Hospitals and TPTB have been very reluctant to acknowledge aerosol transmission for two main reasons:

1) the current droplet precaution model actually seems to work.  We've have very few hospital outbreaks, and most have been traced to staff protocol breaches in break-rooms.  Staff covid rates have been lower than community rates.

2) airborne precautions for all suspected covid patients would be near impossible in practice, particularly  in emergency departments - we don't have the infrastructure or n95 supply.

It's easier to ignore the issue than to acknowledge that we have problem and admit we don't have the resources or political will to make best practice happen.

ETA - I'm sure that a cost/benefit analysis has been done bt TPTB, and they have decided that the status quo is acceptable; and that the tremendous expense and impracticality of acknowledging airborne spread isn't worth it.

 

Edited by wathe
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https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-17/singapore-warns-children-susceptible-to-covid-indian-variant/100144908
 

Singapore is closing schools because B1617 variants seems to be a little more infectious to children 

"Some of these [virus] mutations are much more virulent, and they seem to attack the younger children," Education Minister Chan Chun Sing said.

None of the children who have contracted the virus are seriously ill and a few have mild symptoms, he added.“

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17 minutes ago, wathe said:

  We use airborne precautions only for aerosol generating procedures. 

What I’ve been reading the aerosol people saying (I can’t remember if it’s Linsey Marr or Kimberly Prather, or both) is that people just talking create more infectious aerosol than aerosol generating procedures do. It seems strange, and I’d have to go back and read to remember why that is. On the other hand, it’s interesting that it is seeming in practice that surgical masks are doing enough. It’s surprising. Although, surely better masks would help even more?

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11 minutes ago, KSera said:

What I’ve been reading the aerosol people saying (I can’t remember if it’s Linsey Marr or Kimberly Prather, or both) is that people just talking create more infectious aerosol than aerosol generating procedures do. It seems strange, and I’d have to go back and read to remember why that is. On the other hand, it’s interesting that it is seeming in practice that surgical masks are doing enough. It’s surprising. Although, surely better masks would help even more?

Right.  It is paradoxical.

Re n95 helping more: yes and no. 

In a high risk care situation (AGMP) when you are in the care space for a defined time period then doffing carefully, then yes. 

But for shift-long wear, maybe not.  The problem with n95 for shift-long use is that they are really, really uncomfortable.  It takes tremendous will power to avoid touching/adjusting after it's been on for a while.  Staff are more likely to wear their medical mask properly and always, for the entire duration of the shift.

Edited by wathe
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1 hour ago, wathe said:

In a high risk care situation (AGMP) when you are in the care space for a defined time period then doffing carefully, then yes. 

But for shift-long wear, maybe not.  The problem with n95 for shift-long use is that they are really, really uncomfortable.  It takes tremendous will power to avoid touching/adjusting after it's been on for a while.  Staff are more likely to wear their medical mask properly and always, for the entire duration of the shift.

Would sure be nice if more comfortable, but still effective masks were developed. This is one of the articles putting forth that AGP are not meaningful as a classification of higher risk activities, as higher levels of infectious aerosols are generated during other activities that don't fall in that category (coughing being one of the worst, but also talking and speaking): https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(21)00216-2/fulltext

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59 minutes ago, KSera said:

Would sure be nice if more comfortable, but still effective masks were developed. This is one of the articles putting forth that AGP are not meaningful as a classification of higher risk activities, as higher levels of infectious aerosols are generated during other activities that don't fall in that category (coughing being one of the worst, but also talking and speaking): https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(21)00216-2/fulltext

Agreed.

It's impossible for policy to keep up with science, sadly.  Institutional change is cumbersome and slow.

ETA: and expensive.  so we end up with good enough rather than best.

Edited by wathe
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So they have opened up vaccination to 16 plus in Alice Springs, due to fears about tourists coming into an area with a high number of Indigenous people:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-18/covid19-vaccinations-open-up-to-more-alice-springs-residents/100145762

Right now in the rest of Australia it's only available for over 50s, medical staff/aged care & disability workers, and people at high risk. They've vaccinated under 2million across the country, so lots to go yet.

There was an interesting discussion on TV yday - basically if they open up the borders when 80% of people are vaccinated, that's still going to lead to a lot of people sick. There may still be lockdowns, school shut-downs. They also pointed out just how contagious this new variant present in India is. 

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On 5/17/2021 at 1:02 PM, iamonlyone said:

I think this article is so interesting about what was going on behind the scenes with determining COVID is airborne:

https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/

I am so thankful for all the brilliant and hardworking people who have worked so hard during the pandemic for the common good.

Finally had time to read this - it was quite fascinating.

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https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-24/victoria-two-covid-19-cases-in-melbourne-north/100160012
 

2 probable cases in Melbourne.  There was a mixup with contact tracing from the last case that showed the wrong shopping centre name so they’ve been doing extra testing in the new area.  Wastewater testing showed positive results in the area and so there’s been an extra testing blitz.  If the cases are confirmed for sure it will be quite worrying I guess because there’s likely been community transmission for a bit.

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10 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-24/victoria-two-covid-19-cases-in-melbourne-north/100160012
 

2 probable cases in Melbourne.  There was a mixup with contact tracing from the last case that showed the wrong shopping centre name so they’ve been doing extra testing in the new area.  Wastewater testing showed positive results in the area and so there’s been an extra testing blitz.  If the cases are confirmed for sure it will be quite worrying I guess because there’s likely been community transmission for a bit.

Yikes. Hopefully they didn’t transmit. 

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39 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-24/victoria-two-covid-19-cases-in-melbourne-north/100160012
 

2 probable cases in Melbourne.  There was a mixup with contact tracing from the last case that showed the wrong shopping centre name so they’ve been doing extra testing in the new area.  Wastewater testing showed positive results in the area and so there’s been an extra testing blitz.  If the cases are confirmed for sure it will be quite worrying I guess because there’s likely been community transmission for a bit.

Really hoping they don't have a snap lockdown here in Vic for selfish reasons. Only 5 days until Dd wedding

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31 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Really hoping they don't have a snap lockdown here in Vic for selfish reasons. Only 5 days until Dd wedding

I really really hope so as well!  If it ends up being a Melbourne or part of Melbourne lockdown will that have an impact?  Hopefully if they do have to they can keep it really localised.

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1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I really really hope so as well!  If it ends up being a Melbourne or part of Melbourne lockdown will that have an impact?  Hopefully if they do have to they can keep it really localised.

If it is a Melbourne only lockdown then one of my sons and 2 if my brothers won't be able to come. If NZ closes the bubble than the only friends that Dd invited won't be able to come. If SA closes its border than the flower girls won't be able to come or the grooms sister. 

Ah well. A situation that may not happen. My mum is always telling me I shouldn't worry about mights. 

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25 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

If it is a Melbourne only lockdown then one of my sons and 2 if my brothers won't be able to come. If NZ closes the bubble than the only friends that Dd invited won't be able to come. If SA closes its border than the flower girls won't be able to come or the grooms sister. 

Ah well. A situation that may not happen. My mum is always telling me I shouldn't worry about mights. 

AGGH.  Really really hoping you avoid any kind of lockdown or border closures then 

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