wuhan - coronavirus

[lewelma]

6 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Just wow. So many people here would starve.  How long did this go on?  How did people earn money or even survive. I am trying to picture that for more than a weekend and just cannot imagine that amount of lock down. There would be riots.

First let me say that our lockdown would never work in America (the borders are too porous). I only bring it up because Australia has an elimination policy like we have, but NSW keeps mucking it up by doing too little too late. NZ's lockdown is considered one of the tightest in the world, and we completely eliminated covid during that time which means that we have been without restrictions of any kind for the past 15 months (with the exception of Auckland a few times which you see in the graph, but the rest of NZ has been at the bottom line). Let me be clear, for the past year we have still have stadium events with 40,000 people without masks.

Graphs of lockdown stringency: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-stringency-index?tab=chart&country=NZL~AUS~USA

To answer your question, our lockdown was for 4 weeks and then a lighter version for an additional 3 weeks (you can see this in the graph above). The idea was to keep *everyone* at home, not just the office workers. The only people considered essential were grocery store workers, food transport, pharamacy staff, a few bus drivers for these staff, and hospital staff. NO one else was working.  Seriously, look at these images. 

motorway images: https://www.google.com/search?q=auckland+motorway+during+lockdown+image&rlz=1CAEVJI_enNZ953NZ953&sxsrf=ALeKk03ekplzwWgY5nFSECTgbmAz6kYCaw:1627198272246&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiA6Pv32f3xAhU0yzgGHSs4AygQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1242&bih=547

How the government made this happen.

1) They paid people who could not work from home a stipend for living expenses. And they paid businesses who could not operate to keep their staff even though they were not working. This cost quite a bit of money, but because the government books (debt to GDP) were in good shape, this could be done without bankrupting the country.

Gov't books: https://tradingeconomics.com/new-zealand/government-debt-to-gdp

2) 90% of people supported the lockdown. This was accomplished by hiring a private company to create a government campaign to influence people.  It has worldwide acclaim. "Looking at the events of 2020, there is no doubt that the Unite Against Covid-19 campaign is a world-class demonstration of the creative power and value that design can bring – providing clarity, empathy and uniting all of Aotearoa to think of each other and be part of a collective response."

Scroll down and see some of the signage around NZ: Definitely about empathy and uniting https://theconversation.com/nz-contained-covid-19-direct-and-kind-words-on-signage-helped-138424

Campaign designers: https://designersinstitute.nz/case-study/unite-against-covid-19-campaign/

3) As for surviving, people were allowed to drive to their closest grocery store. We stood in line 3 meters apart wrapping around the parking lot, waiting for our turn to enter. You could not buy groceries online unless you were old, so you stood in line. Besides that, we just stayed at home. There were no stories about people being unable to survive. Even the homeless were all given a home in a hotel room. We knew online shopping for *anything* was closed because we wanted those workers to stay at home too. We were in this together. Rich and poor alike.

homeless put into hotels  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/government-spends-22-million-on-housing-homeless-in-motels-during-lockdown/BFEGBT2UHOPJBBMMN3KHIVKJVY/

----

For me, I read these threads on this board and sometimes cry. My son, parents, and sisters are in the USA. Life is so tough for you guys and I am very sorry.

Edited July 25, 2021 by lewelma

[lewelma]

Also, I put this on one of the other threads, but I will also put it here.  NZ is not allowing misinformation about the covid vaccine. And has asked people to report it. Our entire economic strategy relies on the population getting vaccinated in the next 4 months. The government is not allowing misinformation to propagate. From the Government site:

"Stopping the spread of mis and disinformation about the COVID-19 vaccine will limit any potential confusion for New Zealanders and help them to make informed decisions about the vaccine.

If possible,

-- Send us the link of the website if the content is online.
-- If you see COVID-19 misinformation on social media, report it to the platform (for example, Facebook or Twitter).
-- If it is a physical item, such as a leaflet, email us a photograph and if possible details of where and how you received it.
-- Include when you received the item and where it came from."

https://www.cert.govt.nz/individuals/common-threats/covid-19-vaccine-scams/report-covid-19-vaccine-scams-or-misinformation/

So far I have not seen *any* misinformation, so apparently this policy is working.

[TexasProud]

@lewelmaThank you so much for taking the time to do that. Impressive, but yeah, no way for that to happen here. 

Our town of 14,000 might have been able to pull that off IF there had been the will. 

And I am still not sure how you balance free press and misinformation.  Things like where the virus started can so easily go either way.  Some cases the line is clear, but others not so much. 

Again that took so much time. I appreciate it.  

[Rosie_0801]

It's a whole different political climate in NZ. Your government seems to like its population...

[RootAnn]

A Spanish golfer tests positive & has to drop out of the Olympics. The shocker is that he tested positive in June, too.

From CNN:

"Spanish golfer Jon Rahm, the world No. 1 one of the favorites for Olympic gold, has tested positive for Covid-19 for a second time, this time ending his chances to participate at Tokyo 2020.

Rahm tested positive on his third Covid-19 test prior to departing for Tokyo, according to the Spanish Golf Federation.

Rahm was required to undergo three tests in compliance with guidelines for those who have recently been in the United Kingdom.

In June this year, Rahm was withdrawn from the Memorial Tournament after testing positive for Covid-19, the PGA Tour announced.

The 26-year-old later won the US Open at Torrey Pines in June, his first major victory, after recovering from the virus. "

[YaelAldrich]

10 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

A Spanish golfer tests positive & has to drop out of the Olympics. The shocker is that he tested positive in June, too.

From CNN:

"Spanish golfer Jon Rahm, the world No. 1 one of the favorites for Olympic gold, has tested positive for Covid-19 for a second time, this time ending his chances to participate at Tokyo 2020.

Rahm tested positive on his third Covid-19 test prior to departing for Tokyo, according to the Spanish Golf Federation.

Rahm was required to undergo three tests in compliance with guidelines for those who have recently been in the United Kingdom.

In June this year, Rahm was withdrawn from the Memorial Tournament after testing positive for Covid-19, the PGA Tour announced.

The 26-year-old later won the US Open at Torrey Pines in June, his first major victory, after recovering from the virus. "

Could it be one of those lingering positives rather than a reinfection?

[RootAnn]

I would assume that the golfer would need to test negative before competing in the Torrey Pines Tournament that he won after the first illness & before the second positive. Plus, two negatives before the third positive. 

[catz]

3 hours ago, RootAnn said:

I would assume that the golfer would need to test negative before competing in the Torrey Pines Tournament that he won after the first illness & before the second positive. Plus, two negatives before the third positive. 

I don't have links right now but there have been cases where they have found some people relapse and their genetic code of their covid strain stays the same even after testing negative.  I would strongly suspect that in positives so close together like that.  They also don't say if he is actually symptomatic now?

Edited July 25, 2021 by FuzzyCatz

[SoCal_Bear]

In the WaPo today about switching to higher quality masks.

https://news.yahoo.com/why-experts-recommend-upgrading-n95-123108271.html

 

[RootAnn]

51 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

I don't have links right now but there have been cases where they have found some people relapse and their genetic code of their covid strain stays the same even after testing negative.  I would strongly suspect that in positives so close together like that.  They also don't say if he is actually symptomatic now?

Absolutely could be a relapse. They usually don't mention symptoms when cases are caught via routine testing. I assume that is because many people don't know when they have Covid unless they were tested. (Like right now when cold or allergy symptoms are so close to covid symptoms.) 

I posted it because we aren't hearing of such cases (close reinfections) much right now, so it is of interest.

[KSera]

1 hour ago, calbear said:

In the WaPo today about switching to higher quality masks.

https://news.yahoo.com/why-experts-recommend-upgrading-n95-123108271.html

 

I just want to add, because for some reason news articles only ever seem to mention N95s and KN95s, that KF94s are another alternative to N95s. They have not had the counterfeiting problems that KN95s have. They are certified in Korea and despite the name, most of those tested test at 98 to 99%+ filtration. They are readily available to buy lots of places, though I’m seeing N95s available again right now as well. I’ve already bought some for fire season and so we’re prepared if this gets worse 😔. 

[Laura Corin]

BBC News - Coronavirus infections continue to fall in UK
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57962995

[KSera]

1 hour ago, Laura Corin said:

BBC News - Coronavirus infections continue to fall in UK
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57962995

So interesting the way they are falling off. This stood out to me:

“The latest figures from the Office for National Statistics suggest 92% of adults in the UK now have antibodies to the virus in their blood, either through a previous infection or at least one vaccination dose.”

Would you say that vaccination uptake is pretty evenly spread geographically there? I’m thinking the pattern of infections would be pretty different in a place with evenly spread vaccination, versus places with high vaccination rates and other places with low vaccination rates, like we have in the US.

[Laura Corin]

56 minutes ago, KSera said:

So interesting the way they are falling off. This stood out to me:

“The latest figures from the Office for National Statistics suggest 92% of adults in the UK now have antibodies to the virus in their blood, either through a previous infection or at least one vaccination dose.”

Would you say that vaccination uptake is pretty evenly spread geographically there? I’m thinking the pattern of infections would be pretty different in a place with evenly spread vaccination, versus places with high vaccination rates and other places with low vaccination rates, like we have in the US.

It's not completely evenly distributed but the variation doesn't seem as extreme as the figures I have heard from the US. This is England.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55274833

 

Edited July 25, 2021 by Laura Corin

[SoCal_Bear]

Good overview from Dr. Campbell about vaccine longevity from Israeli study. Breaks down based of when you got it and then efficacy for infections, severe illness and hospitalization.
 

 

[KSera]

6 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

It's not completely evenly distributed but the variation doesn't seem as extreme as the figures I have heard from the US.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55274833

Is there a known reason why London has lower uptake? Otherwise, it's all very close. Nothing at all like here.

eta: obviously, the US is far bigger, so more variation isn't surprising, but you see extreme variations even within states here.

Edited July 25, 2021 by KSera

[Laura Corin]

1 minute ago, KSera said:

Is there a known reason why London has lower uptake? Otherwise, it's all very close. Nothing at all like here.

Deprivation and also lack of confidence among ethnic minorities, I think.

Edited July 25, 2021 by Laura Corin

[Melissa Louise]

NSW CHO confirms 'distressingly low' rates of AZ vaccination among over 60's. 

Seems like the oldies are waiting for Pfizer while at less risk of AZ side effects, while young people being pushed towards AZ in spite of higher risk of side effects. 

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, Melissa Louise said:

NSW CHO confirms 'distressingly low' rates of AZ vaccination among over 60's. 

Seems like the oldies are waiting for Pfizer while at less risk of AZ side effects, while young people being pushed towards AZ in spite of higher risk of side effects. 

I still think this is a diversion and blame shifting political technique though 😬. Split the generations, make them angry with each other for being selfish instead of with the federal government for messing up the rollout and nsw government for waiting too long to lock down.  Not that I think it’s wise for most people over 60 to wait at this point. 

[Ausmumof3]

Today’s cases were

NSW: 145 with 76 infectious in the community for at least part of the time

VIC: 11 all in quarantine 

SA: 2 - one from tenefeate and quarantining and one likely a historic case.

In SA we are supposed to come out of lockdown Wednesday assuming all goes well.  There’s some restrictions still and it’s unclear what will happen with sport etc but schools are reopening.  We do expect some more cases but as long as they’re all quarantining it should be OK. 
 

It seems that significant spread occurred in the barrel room at the winery which has poor ventilation and was crowded.  Much less worrying than the original scenario I was picturing which was outdoor dining (how it was when we’ve been there in the past).  So far no spread from any of the shopping centre exposures etc so hopefully it stays that way.

[Melissa Louise]

7 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I still think this is a diversion and blame shifting political technique though 😬. Split the generations, make them angry with each other for being selfish instead of with the federal government for messing up the rollout and nsw government for waiting too long to lock down.  Not that I think it’s wise for most people over 60 to wait at this point. 

Oh I know, it just makes me mad.

Passed on info re changed ATAGI advice to DD but lockdown has flung her back into depression so I'm not sure if she'll do anything about it. 

[bookbard]

55 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I still think this is a diversion and blame shifting political technique though

yes, I agree.

[Melissa Louise]

My logic brain has reasserted itself in favour of AZ for young adults. 

But man, I am struggling with this lockdown! I did a 5 week one last year, and was absurdly fine, but this one I'm feeling very nervy. 

[Ausmumof3]

43 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

My logic brain has reasserted itself in favour of AZ for young adults. 

But man, I am struggling with this lockdown! I did a 5 week one last year, and was absurdly fine, but this one I'm feeling very nervy. 

Yeah looking at the stats for hospitalised 20 year olds makes me tend to agree.  Seems like there’s either a lot of undetected infection or Delta is significantly worse for this age group than previous variants.

[Ausmumof3]

46 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

My logic brain has reasserted itself in favour of AZ for young adults. 

But man, I am struggling with this lockdown! I did a 5 week one last year, and was absurdly fine, but this one I'm feeling very nervy. 

Only a week here but this one has me way crankier.  I think in part it’s the unpredictability.  Last time I was ready to bunker down for the long haul, whereas now you never know if it’s three days or three months or when the next ones coming. Definitely feeling for you all there in NSW.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Ausmumof3

[Melissa Louise]

Happy to hear the boosted Pfizer is going to supermarket workers in the 3 LGA's of most concern. That's good news. 

[Melissa Louise]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Only a week here but this one has me way crankier.  I think in part it’s the unpredictability.  Last time I was ready to bunker down for the long haul, whereas now you never know if it’s three days or three months or when the next ones coming. Definitely feeling for you all there in NSW.

I feel super restless. Strangely I just wanna go out and go to a party - I do not normally seek out parties!

[Melissa in Australia]

5 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

My logic brain has reasserted itself in favour of AZ for young adults. 

 

my  brother aged 45 had his second dose of Astra Zeneca on Friday. 

 today he spend most of the day in emergency. They are checking for blood clots. 😞  he has the most  painful and strangest headache he has ever had. Half of his face is in complete agony, but only every time his heart beats 😞 

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2021/06/covid-19-vaccination-weighing-up-the-potential-benefits-against-risk-of-harm-from-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca_1.pdf
 

More stats for the AZ decision.  This doesn’t really look like it’s good for those under 40 unless delta is more harmful to that demographic or NSW are planning to let it go and not try to control the virus. Even with a Victoria level last year outbreak it just doesn’t add up.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Ausmumof3

[Ausmumof3]

3 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

my  brother aged 45 had his second dose of Astra Zeneca on Friday. 

 today he spend most of the day in emergency. They are checking for blood clots. 😞  he has the most  painful and strangest headache he has ever had. Half of his face is in complete agony, but only every time his heart beats 😞 

Ugh!  Huge thoughts with you guys and hope it is not blood clotting at all.

My mil did have an awful headache for a couple of weeks after hers but she is really prone to weird symptoms as well.

[Melissa Louise]

35 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

my  brother aged 45 had his second dose of Astra Zeneca on Friday. 

 today he spend most of the day in emergency. They are checking for blood clots. 😞  he has the most  painful and strangest headache he has ever had. Half of his face is in complete agony, but only every time his heart beats 😞 

Hope he will be ok. 

Sending good thoughts. 

[ktgrok]

3 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

my  brother aged 45 had his second dose of Astra Zeneca on Friday. 

 today he spend most of the day in emergency. They are checking for blood clots. 😞  he has the most  painful and strangest headache he has ever had. Half of his face is in complete agony, but only every time his heart beats 😞 

Praying he has some weird migraine and not a clot, and that no matter what it is they can treat him well and get him better fast. 

 

[melmichigan]

8 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

my  brother aged 45 had his second dose of Astra Zeneca on Friday. 

 today he spend most of the day in emergency. They are checking for blood clots. 😞  he has the most  painful and strangest headache he has ever had. Half of his face is in complete agony, but only every time his heart beats 😞 

I hope it isn't clots, but something like the migraine I had. 🤞

[Laura Corin]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jul/26/us-covid-cases-undercounted-study?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Have cases in the US  been under counted?

Edited July 26, 2021 by Laura Corin

[YaelAldrich]

Here's the latest travel information for Israelis and those who wish to go to Israel from the UK.

ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE STATUS OF THE UK STARTING THIS FRIDAY JULY 30

 

After meeting with health ministry officials to get answers to questions we have been receiving, the following information will answer most of your questions:

 

1)On July 30th at 12am the UK will become a country of highest risk – Israelis will be barred from traveling there until this changes, and foreigners will be are barred from entering Israel. 

 

2)REALLY IMPORTANT: If you currently have a permit for a flight on July 30 or after July 30 (or if you receive one in the coming days) those permits will be nullified on July 30 and you will not be permitted to board a flight to Israel on or after July 30. Approvals received prior to July 30 will only be allowed for flights before July 30. 

 

3)Once the UK becomes a country of highest risk on July 30, Israelis who were already in the UK from beforehand will be allowed to return to Israel but will be required to isolate even if they are recovered or vaccinated. 

 

4)That isolation is officially for 14 days – it can be shortened by receiving negative results for PCR tests in Israel, one upon entering isolation (at airport in this case) and the second on the 7th day. 

 

5)Israeli travellers at this stage will not be required to enter an isolation hotel. (Foreign travellers who get permission to enter from the exceptions committee will be required to go to a quarantine hotel.)

 

6)Those with student visas or other A and B class visas would require special permission to enter Israel from the exceptions committee 

Approvals will rarely be granted, especially for those with student visas. 

 

7)Exceptions for foreigners to enter Israel will be rare - entry will be severely restricted. Those who want to apply for an exception can use the same links that are being used now to gain approval.  

 

8)Israelis can ask for permission to travel to the UK (and other countries of highest risk) but severely limited exceptions will be granted.

This is the link for those requests: 

https://govforms.gov.il/mw/forms/LeavingTheCountryApp@piba.gov.il#!applicantDetails

 

9)Those flying to Israel from non high risk countries are allowed to have stopovers/change planes in the UK bit only for less than 12 hours and without leaving the airport. 

 

10)Someone from the UK who wants to come to Israel can go to a green country for two weeks and once the two weeks are over they can apply for approval to enter Israel using the current links for approvals.

 

[Ausmumof3]

I had to laugh when Norman Swan said midway through the interview that homeschooling works because it keeps parents off the streets.  Funniest reason I’ve ever heard for promoting homeschooling before.  

[Melissa in Australia]

The image comes to my mind of gangs of parents roaming the streets

[Ausmumof3]

These guys did a study comparing consequences of lockdown to Covid outbreaks.  This seemed interesting.

[Melissa in Australia]

Both SA and Vic are ending the hard stage 4 lockdown at midnight tonight. 

I am guessing Vic will be at stage  2 or 3?? For the next 2 weeks. 

 No visiting anyone at all inside or visiting people's homes. 

Businesses can open up again with capacity limits

Schools opened again

5 km limit removed

There were 10 new cases in Vic. All of them in isolation.  Interestingly 2 of the cases attended the footy 13 days ago, and have had multiple negative results, but on the 13th day have tested positive

[TCB]

@Melissa in Australia do you have any news about your brother yet? I hope he’s doing ok.

[Ausmumof3]

172 for NSW, 60 in the community infectious.  😬

open here but with limits and still a lot of people in mandatory quarantine.

 

[Melissa in Australia]

37 minutes ago, TCB said:

@Melissa in Australia do you have any news about your brother yet? I hope he’s doing ok.

Thank you 

He is at home but as ill as he was yesterday

[Melissa Louise]

Another month of lockdown for Greater Sydney to be announced tomorrow. 

 

[mommyoffive]

Colombian COVID Variant Spreading in Areas of Florida (msn.com)

[lauraw4321]

I'm sorry to pop in and out of this thread, but my anxiety makes it tough. So I apologize if this has been answered.  Is there any data (not anecdata) about kids and Delta?  Our school district has tripled down that they won't be requiring masks for anyone, even elementary schools where of course the kids aren't vaccinated.  I'm in a high risk county, lowest vax rate state. I'm trying to look at the actual risk to my kids if they get Delta (which seems highly likely given the fact scenario) and whether that risk is higher than the risk of relationship harm / stress / social isolation from pulling them until they are vaxxed.  I work full time, so does DH, so pulling them will be very disruptive and they absolutely don't want to.  We'd have to hire someone and figure out curriculum.  

[ktgrok]

A friend of my mom posted this, from a friend of hers who works at a hospital in Palm Beach County. 

this delta variant is scarey. We had 27 or 28 positive covids in the ER yesterday between 7a and 7p. Several admitted with covid pneumonia. Patients are younger and younger. Even children. This, as I have said before, is no joke. It's the unvaccinated that are getting it bad. I think only 2 yesterday were vaccinated and positive. This is only the beginning of what could potentially be a very bad outcome for so many. Please people, get the vaccine! The healthcare community is exhausted. I would say, if you are in a setting, with lots of people, wear the damned mask! We have to wear it 12 hours a day at work! I think it wont kill you, but covid might.

[KSera]

24 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

I'm sorry to pop in and out of this thread, but my anxiety makes it tough. So I apologize if this has been answered.  Is there any data (not anecdata) about kids and Delta?  Our school district has tripled down that they won't be requiring masks for anyone, even elementary schools where of course the kids aren't vaccinated.  I'm in a high risk county, lowest vax rate state. I'm trying to look at the actual risk to my kids if they get Delta (which seems highly likely given the fact scenario) and whether that risk is higher than the risk of relationship harm / stress / social isolation from pulling them until they are vaxxed.  I work full time, so does DH, so pulling them will be very disruptive and they absolutely don't want to.  We'd have to hire someone and figure out curriculum.  

Honestly, as far as I can tell, no one truly knows the answer to this yet. It seems to me that it still appears that kids are extremely likely to do just fine, though it seems like possibly a bit riskier than it used to be. But it’s hard to tell if that’s just because more of them are getting sick or because this variant is actually more dangerous. The risk of long Covid or long-term neurological effects seems particularly like a wildcard right now. It’s possible that it isn’t rare among kids. I think what people do about their kids right now likely depends largely on what their options are. For people who have good options to continue protecting them from getting Covid, it seems worthwhile to do so until we know more or have a vaccine. For people who don’t have good options for that, it still seems their kids are likely to be fine. I’m sorry you’re in this position. Perhaps the new CDC recommendations will have some effect?

[lauraw4321]

1 minute ago, KSera said:

Honestly, as far as I can tell, no one truly knows the answer to this yet. It seems to me that it still appears that kids are extremely likely to do just fine, though it seems like possibly a bit riskier than it used to be. But it’s hard to tell if that’s just because more of them are getting sick or because this variant is actually more dangerous. The risk of long Covid or long-term neurological effects seems particularly like a wildcard right now. It’s possible that it isn’t rare among kids. I think what people do about their kids right now likely depends largely on what their options are. For people who have good options to continue protecting them from getting Covid, it seems worthwhile to do so until we know more or have a vaccine. For people who don’t have good options for that, it still seems their kids are likely to be fine. I’m sorry you’re in this position. Perhaps the new CDC recommendations will have some effect?

Thanks.  That's the answer I've been getting.  I even called my PCP to try to get him to give me some sense of risk, but he said it was "personal choice."  CDC won't change their minds. He's hinted he won't require them unless he's required to, and our governor has said she won't require them, so...??? I'm so overwhelmed with trying to decide. 

[Melissa Louise]

I dreamt that I broke lockdown big time by attending an unmasked Greek funeral feast. The food was sooo good! But I felt extremely guilty. 

Sorry. Carry on with important discussion! 

[Melissa in Australia]

20 hours ago, TCB said:

@Melissa in Australia do you have any news about your brother yet? I hope he’s doing ok.

My brother is much worse 

On his way to emergancy right now. He woke up this morning and cannot remember how to do anything