Helplessness and problem solving - advice

[lauraw4321]

For reasons that are likely tied to my childhood, I have a severely negative reaction to what can best be described as helplessness. When someone encounters a small obstacle or bump and allow it to derail them rather than exercising their own agency to do something about it, I don't handle it well.  This is true in my work, but also with my spouse and my kids.

Generally my DH doesn't fall into this pattern of thinking and behavior, but when he does, I explain why that kind of behavior drives me batty and try to work through it. But he's an adult. It's much MUCH harder in my kids.

My oldest has ADHD. I've written about her before. She seems very prone to helplessness and seems to struggle the most when trying to solve every day life problems. Some of it I chalk it up to her being the firstborn, and thus more coddled than her siblings. She will still say out loud "I'm thirsty" rather than going and getting herself a drink, because we enabled that behavior way too long. Meanwhile her younger sister was climbing up on chairs to get herself a drink because she couldn't be bothered to wait until a parent was free.

Today we were reviewing assignments that were marked as missing. Two of them are for math. She commented that she'd lost the papers, but that she thought it was possibly in a folder in her locker. I asked her how she was going to 1) remind herself to check that folder and 2) what she would do if the papers were lost. This was a lighthearted conversation (we have many like these because of ADHD). She couldn't come up with any possible solutions and began yelling. I coached her to write a reminder on her hand (for the folder) and to ask her teacher for a new copy (if she couldn't find them).

Is this normal? Is it just puberty combined with personality and ADHD? Is there a better way to teach these skills? Are they teachable? I appreciate any advice... especially any BTDT, it gets better advice.

[prairiewindmomma]

IME, and I am living this now, it’s a multi-layered dynamic.

1. To a degree, this is normal when you mix hormones + ADDness. Right? We aren’t dealing with optimal functioning.

2. IIRC, we are both lawyers by training. We tend to be analytical and forward thinking. We are thinking and problem solving the current situation and we are also thinking about what is three steps down the line from the current situation. This can apparently make us difficult to live with 😂. In all seriousness, I do really have to watch my tone and allow my kid to analyze the situation and problem solve. They may not offer optimal solutions but they are in the process of developing skills. I have seen a huge leap in their ability to problem solve in the last 18 months when I began asking them to analyze the problem, offer solutions, try something, and then report back on how effective that was... (even when I saw the train wreck coming). THAT SAID....there are times when that kid shuts down (and it sounds like your kid got there when they had no possible solutions) and I have to help them work through their problem and their emotions. There is usually some anxiety and frustration in the mix on their end. They know things aren’t going smoothly and they (generally) want to do well.

3. Finding the line between appropriately supporting and inappropriately enabling can be a hard thing...especially when we aren’t sure where their capability actually lies. Hugs! Parenting kids with EF issues is hard. I try to consciously build positive relationships with my kids and to praise and love on them where I can because the constructive feedback I need to offer at times comes across as criticism and rejection if they aren’t feeling deeply loved.

[lauraw4321]

42 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

IME, and I am living this now, it’s a multi-layered dynamic.

1. To a degree, this is normal when you mix hormones + ADDness. Right? We aren’t dealing with optimal functioning.

2. IIRC, we are both lawyers by training. We tend to be analytical and forward thinking. We are thinking and problem solving the current situation and we are also thinking about what is three steps down the line from the current situation. This can apparently make us difficult to live with 😂. In all seriousness, I do really have to watch my tone and allow my kid to analyze the situation and problem solve. They may not offer optimal solutions but they are in the process of developing skills. I have seen a huge leap in their ability to problem solve in the last 18 months when I began asking them to analyze the problem, offer solutions, try something, and then report back on how effective that was... (even when I saw the train wreck coming). THAT SAID....there are times when that kid shuts down (and it sounds like your kid got there when they had no possible solutions) and I have to help them work through their problem and their emotions. There is usually some anxiety and frustration in the mix on their end. They know things aren’t going smoothly and they (generally) want to do well.

3. Finding the line between appropriately supporting and inappropriately enabling can be a hard thing...especially when we aren’t sure where their capability actually lies. Hugs! Parenting kids with EF issues is hard. I try to consciously build positive relationships with my kids and to praise and love on them where I can because the constructive feedback I need to offer at times comes across as criticism and rejection if they aren’t feeling deeply loved.

Yes, I am a lawyer - good memory.

I also try to consciously build positive relationships. I am going to work on incorporating the bolded above.

[Scarlett]

Personally I think it is normal behavior for an 11 year old.  I would just suggest a way for her to solve the problem.  

[Corraleno]

I think for people (including myself) who are very linear/logical/analytical thinkers, it can be hard to really wrap our heads around the fact that there are people whose brains don't work that way at all. When people like us are faced with a problem, it's easy for us to see the beginning point, the end goal, and all the individual steps that would be involved in getting there. Smart, flexible linear/logical thinkers can often see multiple paths at once, and can quickly calculate which one(s) would be the most efficient. But people with ADHD, who tend to think in a much less linear and more "webby" way, do not see those individual steps like we do. 

People with ADHD are often very good at finding connections between things that linear/logical thinkers miss, IF it relates to a topic they are very interested and immersed in. In other words, if their mental web of information on that topic is really dense but also really well understood by them, because they've explored it extensively, then they can see how things that might seem far apart to others, because they're not connected in a straight line, really are connected in deep and complex ways. That's why people with ADHD are often very creative and inventive when they can be immersed in things they're passionate about. But when it comes to things they don't really care about, the web of information they have is more like a tangled ball of string, and they have no idea how to get from point A to point B.

So I would encourage you to see your daughter not as spoiled or willfully helpless, but as someone who needs help visualizing each step between point A and point B, because the path that seems clear and obvious to you isn't obvious to her. She needs someone to model step-by-step thinking because her brain is more wired for solving problems by just kind of "marinating" in them for a while until there's a eureka moment — and that's not actually a very good strategy for solving boring day-to-day problems. And when it comes to solving problems that are caused by EF issues to begin with, I think expecting ADHD children to solve those on their own is expecting a level of metacognitive sophistication than many neurotypical adults lack.

[Arcadia]

I am quirky but supposedly neurotypical.  Everyday life problems like doing homework and getting a drink are tasks that are way low down in priority when I was a kid. For me it is an attitude problem because I would finally get a drink when I am dehydrated. For your daughter, I would think that her attention deficiency is worsen by puberty. I don’t know about my husband but my kids and I did have mental fog during puberty. 

[Ottakee]

I agree ADHD plus EF issues.  Puberty doesn't help.  Have you tried meds?  They can make a huge huge difference for some kids 

[kbutton]

2 hours ago, lauraw4321 said:

Some of it I chalk it up to her being the firstborn, and thus more coddled than her siblings. She will still say out loud "I'm thirsty" rather than going and getting herself a drink, because we enabled that behavior way too long. Meanwhile her younger sister was climbing up on chairs to get herself a drink because she couldn't be bothered to wait until a parent was free.

I am a firstborn, and I am mildly offended by this, lol! 😉 Firstborns may be catered to in some ways, but we're not usually considered coddled, lol!

In all seriousness though, she's probably just thinking out loud. 

I have two kids with ADHD that are more likely to help themselves than do this, and it's not always good. 🙂 

Quote

Today we were reviewing assignments that were marked as missing. Two of them are for math. She commented that she'd lost the papers, but that she thought it was possibly in a folder in her locker. I asked her how she was going to 1) remind herself to check that folder and 2) what she would do if the papers were lost. This was a lighthearted conversation (we have many like these because of ADHD). She couldn't come up with any possible solutions and began yelling. I coached her to write a reminder on her hand (for the folder) and to ask her teacher for a new copy (if she couldn't find them).

Is this normal? Is it just puberty combined with personality and ADHD? Is there a better way to teach these skills? Are they teachable? I appreciate any advice... especially any BTDT, it gets better advice.

These are good strategies for teaching her how to problem-solve herself. It's not a worthless endeavor. However, if she's yelling, there might be part of how it goes down that's not ideal, or it might be that she's just at an age to resent being told what to do...or it could be that she doesn't appreciate the brainstorming right now. Maybe she just wanted to be recognized for realizing where she probably left her papers? 

If she's not generally this reactionary, I would guess it's just puberty, BUT it doesn't mean that changing your approach a bit might not help. Again, great skill building, but she might just need a lighter touch at the moment. I remember at just a little older, I had trouble absorbing gentle criticism. I felt like a dork and felt conspicuously awkward at all moments (I was awkward), and being told how to do something better just felt horrible--I already knew I was not at the top of my game, and I already felt stupid. Having someone verbalize that I could do better was just demoralizing. I often felt like I had no control over most things that used to be just fine and worked well but somehow were more complicated now. I don't have ADHD, but I can imagine it would've been worse if I did and was aware of it making me different in some way.

[J-rap]

I think that's not unusual behavior for even a non-ADHD 11-year-old.  I honestly was shocked that it took so long for some of my kids to catch on to things that seemed so obvious to me.  I'm generally not one to get very impatient about that kind of stuff, but I was really surprised that some organization/problem-solving skills took so many years to be honed in my kids, even ones who did well academically.  

I did learn that without specific experience, my kids couldn't always figure things out.  They still needed me to walk them through problem-solving a lot of the time.  In fact, in hind-site, I wish I had done even more of that.  I think I figured their brains would just start figuring things out on their own at a certain point, whereas in reality, they really needed much more time and assistance with step-by-step guidance.

(Also, on a side note, I've always observed the opposite with the oldest...  They always seemed to be the ones to feel more responsibility earlier, and try harder to live up to parents' expectations, whereas the baby is, well, babied.)

 

 

 

 

[RootAnn]

4 hours ago, lauraw4321 said:

Some of it I chalk it up to her being the firstborn, and thus more coddled than her siblings. She will still say out loud "I'm thirsty" rather than going and getting herself a drink, because we enabled that behavior way too long. Meanwhile her younger sister was climbing up on chairs to get herself a drink because she couldn't be bothered to wait until a parent was free.

Hm. I would chalk this up more to personality than birth order. I know DH & I expected waaaaaay more out of #1 than any of the later kids at the same age. Still do.

I would also say this is typical hormone fog/frustration on top of EF struggles. 

[Ausmumof3]

Sounds like kind of normal 11 year old kid behaviour to me with maybe a bit of the hormone and Ef issues playing in.  I wouldn’t tolerate being yelled at, that would be a “if you’d like my help you need to speak to me respectfully” moment but all the rest sounds pretty much normal.

[Chris in VA]

I think kids in the puberty years are just going through so many changes that sometimes there just isn't enough energy to problem-solve, or do whatever they find challenging.  Coupled with already having a functional deficit? No wonder she shut down. 

In our efforts to grow our little people, sometimes we just need to offer grace. Not everything is a "lesson." I would stop worrying that she won't become a problem solver, and give her strategies and solutions from time to time. Frustated, angry people rarely think clearly anyway. But if she has an arsenal of techniques and has used them with your guidance,  then the next time (or several times after), you can say, "Remember when (something similar) happened? What did you do then? Do you think that would work now?"

You are scaffolding her learning. Instead of making her jump for the ladder, build her a platform to get to the next level. 

Also, it is very, very good that you recognize your impatience, so you can work on that. And, you are wise and loving to care about your child's ability to live in this world! I admire your self-awareness and your intentionality in parenting. 

[Carrie12345]

I’d say it’s somewhat normal, with some ADHD and conditioning to ice the cake.

I happen to have ADHD. When I was a kid, I had some “helplessness” issues in certain categories, especially school work. Looking back (and with the added bonus of having raised an ASD/EF kid), I believe it was a combination of EF issues and perfectionism.  I often didn’t do homework because my executive functioning was awful. I sometimes didn’t hand in projects, not only because of my crummy management, but also because they weren’t “good enough”.  I was never coddled, but I didn’t have any help, either. 

Something started to click in my brain around 20. I think it was forced to because I was pregnant. Not the solution I recommend, lol.  But I’ve definitely overcome the majority of that stuff over the years.  I still have times when my first instinct is the “helpless” scenario, but it’s almost always just a part of my process.  I indulge for a few minutes or a day (depending on the size of the issue) and then put my head down and get to tackling what needs to be done.

I think that, with the right supports, I could have begun the whole transformation a lot earlier.  I still physically and emotionally react to any insinuation that I’m lazy or I don’t care enough, which is what all adults assumptions of me were.  I was always told to do better/more/etc., but no one ever showed me HOW.  “Do your homework as soon as you get home from school” didn’t make me know how to manage my assignments any more than if I sat down later. “Here’s a planner/agenda” didn’t make me know how to fill it out to improve my output, or even how to remember to fill it out.  Open topic projects with work steps didn’t tell me how to choose a topic, what angle to approach it from, what medium to work in, how to form, let alone add, my own interpretations, and on and on and on.  I felt like everyone understood what was expected of them but me.  I always needed more and clearer instructions.

My kids aren’t nearly as crippled in that way as I was. I incessantly ask them questions or give them prompts when they make a vague statement, even when they aren’t in any actual need of being walked through something, which does get annoying for them, lol.  And they’re FAR from perfect. They have “normal” teen/tween dysfunction of their own! But they’re all light years away from where I was at their ages.

[Clemsondana]

There was a stretch of time where my whole family, husband included, did this.  The kids were young and i started teaching them that various things were problems that they could solve.  But, I realized that I was just as bothered by the general expectation that they would voice a desire and expect me to jump up and fix it.  Over the years I've emphasized that I, and the world in general, will likely respond to requests for help but am not obligated to do whatever pops into their head.  In other words, if they say 'I'm hungry'  I'll respond with a joking 'That's too bad' or 'I'm sure that you can fix that problem if you want to'.  But, if they ask 'How long until dinner?' 'Is there time for a snack?' or 'Do we have anything for a small snack? I'm happy to help.  

Funny enough, this stems from a prof that I had in college.  He wouldn't help us unless we could show him what we'd already tried and then formulate a question....no 'I don't understand #4', but 'Could you explain the difference between X and Y?'.  We often found that formulating a clear question helped us figure out the answer, or at least something that we could easily look up without help.  

[PeterPan]

8 hours ago, kbutton said:

Firstborns may be catered to in some ways, but we're not usually considered coddled, lol!

Exactly. Firstborn often means less attention and growing up faster as the parental attention moves on to the next dc.

11 hours ago, lauraw4321 said:

For reasons that are likely tied to my childhood, I have a severely negative reaction to what can best be described as helplessness.

I'll just be ornery and say it's ironic if you're viewing yourself as helpless to do something about this. Dealing with our *own* childhoods is the best way to become more self-aware and hence understand others better. I went back and got counseling as a 40-something adult for my childhood experiences. 

11 hours ago, lauraw4321 said:

My oldest has ADHD. I've written about her before. She seems very prone to helplessness and seems to struggle the most when trying to solve every day life problems...She will still say out loud "I'm thirsty" rather than going and getting herself a drink, because we enabled that behavior way too long. Meanwhile her younger sister was climbing up on chairs to get herself a drink because she couldn't be bothered to wait until a parent was free.

My ds did this, and his label is ADHD plus ASD2. He has difficulties with PROBLEM SOLVING and realizing the sequence of steps to solve his problem. It's considered an EF issue, and SLPs will run a Test of Problem Solving and actually work on it clinically. There's also a test psychs use to measure persistence. So to solve a problem, the person both has to figure out the steps AND be able to stick with it. For some kids, these are really hard.

My ds has a gifted IQ, and when he was 10 we were working on the steps to *wipe a spill* I kid you not. Wipe a spill. No clue. Just stands there. So I don't know why your dd isn't making a move to solve her problem, but 

9 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Personally I think it is normal behavior for an 11 year old.  I would just suggest a way for her to solve the problem.  

is exactly right. She needs some faded supports/prompts to work on her problem solving. You just meet her where she is, asking her what the steps are, what she can do about it. For my dd, who also has ADHD and sensory issues, sometimes when she's saying she's hungry or whatever it's more insidious and that she is *overwhelmed* by what she's feeling. It turns out her sensory is hyper-sensitive, so once she gets hungry, it's like a level 13 (on a 1-10) and totally overwhelming, shutting down her problem solving.

11 hours ago, lauraw4321 said:

Today we were reviewing assignments that were marked as missing. Two of them are for math. She commented that she'd lost the papers, but that she thought it was possibly in a folder in her locker. I asked her how she was going to 1) remind herself to check that folder and 2) what she would do if the papers were lost. This was a lighthearted conversation (we have many like these because of ADHD). She couldn't come up with any possible solutions and began yelling. I coached her to write a reminder on her hand (for the folder) and to ask her teacher for a new copy (if she couldn't find them).

Why does it matter if the papers are missing? Can you let her deal with the natural consequences and ask her if she needs/wants any help later? Like me, I'm gonna ask if she needs any EF supports for the year (a binder with pockets, tech to set reminders, etc.) and walk away. The consequences are hers. It's normal for kids with ADHD to underperform. 

My dd is in college, and I told her try not to get Cs, I think you can be an A/B student. (Cs also tank her scholarship, lol.) By intellect, she's an A student. By reality and disability, her grades are going to be all over the place. She creates enough of her OWN stress, with her disabilities, that I don't need to add to it.

You can ask her if she feels like she's doing her best, ask her if she wants more supports. The yelling thing sounds (at least in our house) like that combo of anxiety and frustration. You might consider hiring an EF coach for her. Now is the time, 6th grade, to be teaching the skills she needs for high school. Since it's very personal for *you* to be doing it, maybe consider beginning to outsource. It would be a totally normal thing to do. There's an org for certifying academic therapists. They'll go by different names, but someone in that vein who is trained in ADHD, EF supports, etc. 

Is she allowed to use tech in this setting? 

1 hour ago, Carrie12345 said:

When I was a kid, I had some “helplessness” issues in certain categories, especially school work. Looking back (and with the added bonus of having raised an ASD/EF kid), I believe it was a combination of EF issues and perfectionism.

Bingo. And for some kids, meds make a difference in this ability to pull it together. Otherwise, they sometimes need hurculean strategies or just flat give up. Meds for the ADHD can lower anxiety by improving competency.

1 hour ago, Carrie12345 said:

I still physically and emotionally react to any insinuation that I’m lazy or I don’t care enough, which is what all adults assumptions of me were.  I was always told to do better/more/etc., but no one ever showed me HOW.  “Do your homework as soon as you get home from school” didn’t make me know how to manage my assignments any more than if I sat down later. “Here’s a planner/agenda” didn’t make me know how to fill it out to improve my output, or even how to remember to fill it out.  Open topic projects with work steps didn’t tell me how to choose a topic, what angle to approach it from, what medium to work in, how to form, let alone add, my own interpretations, and on and on and on.  I felt like everyone understood what was expected of them but me.  I always needed more and clearer instructions.

This is really important. There's a lot of good stuff out there now for teaching the EF skills, for scaffolding, for bringing in those supports. Over on LC we're talking this stuff all the time. Certified academic therapists do it and some SLPs. There's 360 Thinking. Heathermomster used a service with her ds, can't remember the name, but it too taught how to break down tasks. It doesn't matter what one dc needed. Every child has to be met as an individual, where they are. Some of it is just the variability of how the disabilities present.

2 hours ago, Chris in VA said:

your intentionality in parenting. 

Absolutely! My dd wasn't even diagnosed till 11/12. So just getting the diagnosis is a big deal, and then there's this journey. There's a lot they don't tell you when they give you that report that says ADHD, lol. 

Edited January 23, 2020 by PeterPan

[Islandgal]

There is a thread on the general education discussion board, titled, explicitly teaching ef skills, you may find helpful.

I am also a first born, and found that the standard and expectations were significantly higher for me than my younger siblings. There is a bit of a learning curve with the first.

Edited January 23, 2020 by Islandgal

[SKL]

Just want to add that my kid started doing the helpless/lazy thing around that age.  I recently realized that it's part of her anxiety / OCD stuff where she thinks something might go wrong if she does xyz.  For her there is so much more involved than just getting up, walking to the sink, and filling a glass with water.  (This kid was never lazy nor helpless as a younger child; I was wondering where her energetic and proactive self went!)

[Pronghorn]

I wonder if it would help if you created a chart of common problems and strategies to solve them. Then you could direct the child to check the chart and see if they could find an answer there.

[lauraw4321]

Quoting isn't working well for me, so apologies for the scattered response. 

Sorry to have offended regarding birth order. I didn't express myself well, so let's just chalk it up to personality and ADHD.

She is on meds, but they are mostly in effect during school, so mornings and evenings are tougher. I've been doing a lot of the scaffolding / EF training. I'm going to look into outsourcing it.

It seems like every time I put into words my worries about this kid, she rises to the occasion to prove me wrong. This morning she was getting ready for school and she wanted to create a training log for me to sign, which currently is a missing assignment. We were running short on time, and to create it she would need to sit down with her calendar and put in dates. I told her I didn't think we had enough time before school. She really wanted to take care of it today and before I could say anything else she said "I know - just sign this piece of paper, and I'll fill in the rest of it during [study hall]. All I need from you is a signature. I can do the rest of it later."

Damn if that wasn't an excellent bit of problem solving. I praised the heck out of her, signed the blank paper, joked not to write something like "[DD] can buy ice cream every day." and sent her off to school. 

[PeterPan]

10 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

She is on meds, but they are mostly in effect during school, so mornings and evenings are tougher.

Have you thought about an XR med? She's at the age where people are doing that. She has homework to get done in the evening, so she needs that support to get her work done and be ready for the next day. Also the longer dose may help her wind down and sleep better. 

10 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

This morning she was getting ready for school and she wanted to create a training log for me to sign, which currently is a missing assignment. We were running short on time, and to create it she would need to sit down with her calendar and put in dates. I told her I didn't think we had enough time before school. She really wanted to take care of it today and before I could say anything else she said "I know - just sign this piece of paper, and I'll fill in the rest of it during [study hall]. All I need from you is a signature. I can do the rest of it later."

You might follow up later today with a question and ask her what she could do to PREVENT that from happening. Then she can problem solve that.  That's a pretty common strategy btw, looking back and discussing together how her strategy worked and whether she'd like to have a different strategy for next time. It's how you teach them to solve their problems, rather than you giving them the answers or preventing the problem from occurring. And you want her to make those mistakes NOW, with you, with the person who can help her learn how to do that.

Edited January 23, 2020 by PeterPan

[73349]

I found that many rounds of "What do you think you should do about that?" helped DS pick up on some patterns.

E.g., we're in the car, and he's too hot. "I'm hot." "What do you think you should do about that?" "I can take my coat off." "There you go." Now he proceeds straight to "I'm going to take my coat off" or just does it without saying anything. Same with "I'm thirsty" at home.

[Islandgal]

4 hours ago, lauraw4321 said:

Quoting isn't working well for me, so apologies for the scattered response. 

Sorry to have offended regarding birth order. I didn't express myself well, so let's just chalk it up to personality and ADHD.

She is on meds, but they are mostly in effect during school, so mornings and evenings are tougher. I've been doing a lot of the scaffolding / EF training. I'm going to look into outsourcing it.

It seems like every time I put into words my worries about this kid, she rises to the occasion to prove me wrong. This morning she was getting ready for school and she wanted to create a training log for me to sign, which currently is a missing assignment. We were running short on time, and to create it she would need to sit down with her calendar and put in dates. I told her I didn't think we had enough time before school. She really wanted to take care of it today and before I could say anything else she said "I know - just sign this piece of paper, and I'll fill in the rest of it during [study hall]. All I need from you is a signature. I can do the rest of it later."

Damn if that wasn't an excellent bit of problem solving. I praised the heck out of her, signed the blank paper, joked not to write something like "[DD] can buy ice cream every day." and sent her off to school. 

I think outsourcing it may be a wonderful idea. At that age sometimes even perceived criticism from your mother can negatively affect the relationship. 

No need to apologize, I personally wasn't offended in the least. 🙂

Edited January 23, 2020 by Islandgal

[Library Momma]

Is she in public school?  Many students in ps with ADHD are able to meet with counselors (or paras) to assist with EF issues.  I know some that do this daily, going through their notebooks and  folders to clean them out and work on organizing and planning.  Others meet weekly and/or monthly.  Sometimes they plan out and prioritize upcoming assignments, other times the counselors help them to clean out their lockers.  Often a disaster of a locker can dampen the best intentions of staying on track.  Are any of these services available to your dd?  

[lauraw4321]

26 minutes ago, Library Momma said:

Is she in public school?  Many students in ps with ADHD are able to meet with counselors (or paras) to assist with EF issues.  I know some that do this daily, going through their notebooks and  folders to clean them out and work on organizing and planning.  Others meet weekly and/or monthly.  Sometimes they plan out and prioritize upcoming assignments, other times the counselors help them to clean out their lockers.  Often a disaster of a locker can dampen the best intentions of staying on track.  Are any of these services available to your dd?  

Hey, quote is now working.

She is in P.S. Some of this does happen every day during the "study hall" like time, but I think it's ad hoc. Up until this year we haven't done any  kind of IEP or special services or any of that because she really didn't need it. The more this year goes by, the more I think we should investigate that. I'm going to email her counselor. Thanks for the push!

[Ottakee]

6 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

Hey, quote is now working.

She is in P.S. Some of this does happen every day during the "study hall" like time, but I think it's ad hoc. Up until this year we haven't done any  kind of IEP or special services or any of that because she really didn't need it. The more this year goes by, the more I think we should investigate that. I'm going to email her counselor. Thanks for the push!

If you question it at all, ask for an evaluation in writing .  That starts the clock.

[Carol in Cal.]

I had a manager teach me critical path skills by grinning and asking me, "What's the next crisis?" every time I saw him.  I'd have to think fast and answer something credible, and it taught me to think that way.  I was in my late 20s.  Before that I had just ground through everything, using deadlines to create crises.  (I hate to admit this but it is true.)  Two take aways--this kind of thing can be taught, and it can be learned.  Also, it can be learned relatively late in life.

[BlsdMama]

21 hours ago, Corraleno said:

I think for people (including myself) who are very linear/logical/analytical thinkers, it can be hard to really wrap our heads around the fact that there are people whose brains don't work that way at all. When people like us are faced with a problem, it's easy for us to see the beginning point, the end goal, and all the individual steps that would be involved in getting there. Smart, flexible linear/logical thinkers can often see multiple paths at once, and can quickly calculate which one(s) would be the most efficient. But people with ADHD, who tend to think in a much less linear and more "webby" way, do not see those individual steps like we do. 

People with ADHD are often very good at finding connections between things that linear/logical thinkers miss, IF it relates to a topic they are very interested and immersed in. In other words, if their mental web of information on that topic is really dense but also really well understood by them, because they've explored it extensively, then they can see how things that might seem far apart to others, because they're not connected in a straight line, really are connected in deep and complex ways. That's why people with ADHD are often very creative and inventive when they can be immersed in things they're passionate about. But when it comes to things they don't really care about, the web of information they have is more like a tangled ball of string, and they have no idea how to get from point A to point B.

So I would encourage you to see your daughter not as spoiled or willfully helpless, but as someone who needs help visualizing each step between point A and point B, because the path that seems clear and obvious to you isn't obvious to her. She needs someone to model step-by-step thinking because her brain is more wired for solving problems by just kind of "marinating" in them for a while until there's a eureka moment — and that's not actually a very good strategy for solving boring day-to-day problems. And when it comes to solving problems that are caused by EF issues to begin with, I think expecting ADHD children to solve those on their own is expecting a level of metacognitive sophistication than many neurotypical adults lack.

This is great advice and perspective.