"Ethnicity" on forms .... (a rant)

[SKL]

This is a pet peeve of mine ... why are "Hispanic" and "not Hispanic" the only two "ethnicities" apparently recognized officially in the USA?

Just filled out registration forms for my kids to go to the public school.  They are online and there is no option to leave it blank.

We don't experience Latino culture any more than any other family that travels around.  My kids speak English, hate Latino food, and are much more into Korean than Latin culture.  Someone convinced them that they are Hispanic because they were born in a country that Spain conquered centuries ago.  So now, if asked, they will say "Hispanic" to ethnicity, and I go along with that.  But it is really meaningless as far as any school related issue.

If ethnicity is so important, then why must the rest of us be satisfied with "not Hispanic"?  What kind of ethnicity is that?  Are my Indian, Greek, Ukrainian, Chinese, and American-born friends all the same - do they all have more in common than my kids have with me?

Rant rant rant!  They should offer a list of ethnicities if this is such an important thing for them to know.

Edited November 27, 2019 by SKL

[Jean in Newcastle]

Not all public schools ask about race or ethnicity.  And not all use the same classifications.  It varies by State and school district.  In our state, there are subsections under each race with country names to further subdivide "Asian", "Pacific Islander", "Caribbean", "Central Africa", "East Africa", "Latin America", "South Africa", "West Africa", as well as a place for "other".  But none of these designations have anything to do with what is really the dominant culture in the home (though in first generation homes it could be surmised that these designations mirror their dominant culture. 

[EKS]

I've read that the Hispanic thing is because people can identify as Hispanic and as part of another listed group.  And whatever institution/agency is asking about it needs to know for funding reasons.

Edited November 26, 2019 by EKS

[katilac]

42 minutes ago, SKL said:

This is a pet peeve of mine ... why are "Hispanic" and "not Hispanic" the only two "ethnicities" apparently recognized officially in the USA?

Just filled out registration forms for my kids to go to the public school.  They are online and there is no option to leave it blank.

I see Native American and Pacific Islander pretty often, and I can't remember the last time I didn't see an option to leave it blank. Maybe because it's a school? There is a National Hispanic Scholar program, so I guess the kindest interpretation is that they want to make all eligible students aware of it. 

Okay, apparently there is a national standard for this! Hispanic/Latino or not is indeed the only ethnicity. Native American/Alaskan Native, Pacific Islander, Asian, black, and white are the race categories. https://www.iowadatacenter.org/aboutdata/raceclassification

[SKL]

Yeah, for example my friend whose parents escaped Ukraine as refugees during WWII ... very immersed in Ukrainian culture - language, religion, food, music, etc ... "Not Hispanic, White" is sufficient to describe her.  OK whatever.  Meanwhile "Hispanic" includes millions of people who never learned Spanish.  It's dumb.  Don't even get me started on the diversity that "Asian" or "Black" is supposed to cover.

[Sneezyone]

Ethnicity is the term for the culture of people in a given geographic region, including their language, heritage, religion and customs. To be a member of an ethnic group is to conform to some or all of those practices. If you do not feel or have an affinity for an ethnic group then don't claim it. It isn't mandatory to self-identify as anything, so don't. In addition, hispanic/non-hispanic aren't the only ethnic groups but 'hispanic' is the most 'polled/surveyed' right now because it's the fastest growing. I consider black Americans and Pacific Islanders to be ethnic groups even though there are many different national origins represented. African-Americans (first/second generation Africans) are a very small part of the black community and the Pacific Islands are diverse as well. I totally reject the notion, however, that there is no black ethnic identity.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Sneezyone

[SKL]

I could understand schools wanting to know what kids' home language is, but that is asked in a different question.  Why should they need to know any other thing about the culture or heritage?  It's akin to asking about religion IMO.

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

We don't experience Latino culture any more than any other family that travels around.  My kids speak English, hate Latino food, and are much more into Korean than Latin culture.  Someone convinced them that they are Hispanic because they were born in a country that Spain conquered centuries ago.  So now, if asked, they will say "Hispanic" to ethnicity, and I go along with that.  But it is really meaningless.

If ethnicity is so important, then why must the rest of us be satisfied with "not Hispanic"?  What kind of ethnicity is that?  Are my Indian, Greek, Ukrainian, Chinese, and American-born friends all the same - do they all have more in common than my kids have with me?

"Hispanic" basically means "of mixed European and indigenous heritage, where the nonEuropean portion comes from areas of the Western hemisphere that are now predominantly Spanish (or Portuguese) speaking." The fact that your children were adopted by a white woman of European heritage doesn't change their ethnicity, any more than it changed my daughter's ethnicity from Asian to white.

 

1 hour ago, SKL said:

If ethnicity is so important, then why must the rest of us be satisfied with "not Hispanic"?  What kind of ethnicity is that?  Are my Indian, Greek, Ukrainian, Chinese, and American-born friends all the same - do they all have more in common than my kids have with me?

Your Chinese and Indian friends would check the box for Asian, wouldn't they? And the Greeks & Ukranians would check the box for white/European.

 

[Melissa in Australia]

here forms just want to know if you are indigenous or not.

[katilac]

16 minutes ago, SKL said:

I could understand schools wanting to know what kids' home language is, but that is asked in a different question.  Why should they need to know any other thing about the culture or heritage?  It's akin to asking about religion IMO.

Did you see my note about the National Hispanic Scholar program? 

[vonfirmath]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Not all public schools ask about race or ethnicity.  And not all use the same classifications.  It varies by State and school district.  In our state, there are subsections under each race with country names to further subdivide "Asian", "Pacific Islander", "Caribbean", "Central Africa", "East Africa", "Latin America", "South Africa", "West Africa", as well as a place for "other".  But none of these designations have anything to do with what is really the dominant culture in the home (though in first generation homes it could be surmised that these designations mirror their dominant culture. 

 

Our school has those subsections. But if you choose Hispanic with any of the others, you are categorized as "Hispanic"  -- hispanic is, indeed, a "controlling" ethnicity.

 

In fact it's two different question

1. is Hispanic or not Hispanic

2. has the long list of "Races"  (which you can actually choose multiple from now) But I've never seen English, German or American there. just a color.

 

ETA: or even "European"

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by vonfirmath

[SKL]

28 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

"Hispanic" basically means "of mixed European and indigenous heritage, where the nonEuropean portion comes from areas of the Western hemisphere that are now predominantly Spanish (or Portuguese) speaking." The fact that your children were adopted by a white woman of European heritage doesn't change their ethnicity, any more than it changed my daughter's ethnicity from Asian to white.

 

Your Chinese and Indian friends would check the box for Asian, wouldn't they? And the Greeks & Ukranians would check the box for white/European.

 

Asian and white/European are not listed as "ethnicities" but as "races."  An Asian person still has to choose "Hispanic" or "not Hispanic."

[Jean in Newcastle]

12 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

 

Our school has those subsections. But if you choose Hispanic with any of the others, you are categorized as "Hispanic"  -- hispanic is, indeed, a "controlling" ethnicity.

 

In fact it's two different question

1. is Hispanic or not Hispanic

2. has the long list of "Races"  (which you can actually choose multiple from now) But I've never seen English, German or American there. just a color.

 

ETA: or even "European"

 

Yes, I didn’t list the ones like White or Black that didn’t have country subsections. I assume black in that category is Black American as in not first or second generation African immigrant. 

[SKL]

23 minutes ago, katilac said:

Did you see my note about the National Hispanic Scholar program? 

Yes, but is that the only scholarship program (or whatever it is) where "ethnicity" matters?  If so, that doesn't seem right either!

[SKL]

52 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

"Hispanic" basically means "of mixed European and indigenous heritage, where the nonEuropean portion comes from areas of the Western hemisphere that are now predominantly Spanish (or Portuguese) speaking." The fact that your children were adopted by a white woman of European heritage doesn't change their ethnicity, any more than it changed my daughter's ethnicity from Asian to white.

There should be an option to leave the so-called ethnicity question blank - or it shouldn't even be asked.

The definition of ethnicity depends on who you ask.  Some say it requires a cultural connection.  Others say it depends on where you're born.  (FTR at least one of my kids was born into a local culture that does not speak any Spanish.)  Either way - if it is not something that impacts our daily life, we should not have to choose.  It would be more relevant for them to ask what our hobbies are or our family structure - but they don't ask those kinds of questions.

[katilac]

21 minutes ago, SKL said:

Yes, but is that the only scholarship program (or whatever it is) where "ethnicity" matters?  If so, that doesn't seem right either!

I think it is the only large-scale one. The other specific ones that go through the college board are based on race, so they'll have that info. In that sense, it's fair. 

There are other ethnic awards, like from Italian American or Greek American organizations, but they are much more limited in size and scope (and are often local). 

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

I could understand schools wanting to know what kids' home language is, but that is asked in a different question.  Why should they need to know any other thing about the culture or heritage?  It's akin to asking about religion IMO.

 
Religion is something most of us choose. Ethnicity and cultural identity is something many of us are raised with. Having those shared touchstones isn’t a choice. EVERYONE has the option to leave those things blank whether the form asks for the information or not. If the online version doesn’t allow for that, it may be a programming oversight. Bring that to their attention.

There are multiple scholarship programs that consider ethnicity, including affinity organizations like the National Panhellenic ones. The National Achievement Scholarship (based on PSAT) for black students was discontinued some years ago in favor of the Hispanic scholarship program.

[katilac]

3 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 There are multiple scholarship programs that consider ethnicity, including affinity organizations like the National Panhellenic ones. The National Achievement Scholarship (based on PSAT) for black students was discontinued some years ago in favor of the Hispanic scholarship program.

Not quite. All of the recognition programs are currently partnerships between the College Board and another program, and currently they have Hispanic, black, indigenous, and small town/rural. All are based on PSAT. 

[Lecka]

Test scores are broken down by categories and I think one of the categories is Hispanic.  I think it has been this way since NCLB.

[Sneezyone]

8 minutes ago, katilac said:

Not quite. All of the recognition programs are currently partnerships between the College Board and another program, and currently they have Hispanic, black, indigenous, and small town/rural. All are based on PSAT. 

Apparently, that just started this year. When I looked last year, there were no official College Board programs for non-Hispanic minorities. I guess they’ve basically discontinued all of their scholarship programs for minority youth. https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/psat-nmsqt-psat-10/scholarships-and-recognition/recognition-programs

Edited November 27, 2019 by Sneezyone

[katilac]

Just now, Sneezyone said:

Apparently, that just started this year. When I looked last year, there were no official College Board programs for non-Hispanic minorities.

Well, if they don't keep changing things, we might start to understand them . . . 

[maize]

On 11/26/2019 at 4:25 PM, Sneezyone said:

Ethnicity is the term for the culture of people in a given geographic region, including their language, heritage, religion and customs. To be a member of an ethnic group is to conform to some or all of those practices. If you do not feel or have an affinity for an ethnic group then don't claim it. It isn't mandatory to self-identify as anything, so don't. In addition, hispanic/non-hispanic aren't the only ethnic groups but 'hispanic' is the most 'polled/surveyed' right now because it's the fastest growing. I consider black Americans and Pacific Islanders to be ethnic groups even though there are many different national origins represented. African-Americans (first/second generation Africans) are a very small part of the black community and the Pacific Islands are diverse as well. I totally reject the notion, however, that there is no black ethnic identity.

Is it common within black communities to differentiate this way? "Black American" for those who have been here for generations, mostly going back to slave immigrants, and African American for first/second generation immigrants? I've only heard African American used to identify all black Americans but I mostly associated it with non-immigrants.

Most of the black people I have associated with in my lifetime are actually first or second generation immigrants from African nations, if they are first generation I just think of them as the nationality they were born into. (And in my case many have been immigrants not to the US but to other countries, where assimilation is even more difficult than here).

How would you think of someone like Barack Obama whose black heritage was African, was not raised in a black household, but seems to identify as Black American? Ethnically, that is a complex situation for sure. My guess is that people in such situations (and there are many) don't really have an ethnicity... amorphous as that concept may be.

Edited November 28, 2019 by maize

[SKL]

32 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 
Religion is something most of us choose. Ethnicity and cultural identity is something many of us are raised with. Having those shared touchstones isn’t a choice. EVERYONE has the option to leave those things blank whether the form asks for the information or not. If the online version doesn’t allow for that, it may be a programming oversight. Bring that to their attention.

There are multiple scholarship programs that consider ethnicity, including affinity organizations like the National Panhellenic ones. The National Achievement Scholarship (based on PSAT) for black students was discontinued some years ago in favor of the Hispanic scholarship program.

Religion really isn't a choice for kids though.  People can walk away from other cultural trappings as fast as from the religion they were raised in.  I know many people from other cultures who pick and choose which cultural practices to continue or not ... and for that matter, many people choose not to follow them in their home country also.

Maybe you are right about telling the school to add an option to not answer.  Currently they won't let you submit the registration without clicking one of the two boxes.

As for the scholarship - I feel that is unfair.  I know many Hispanic people who are in a better than average situation as far as ability to access higher education.  Why should my kids have access to a scholarship that is denied to kids adopted from a Russian, Indian, or Ethiopian orphanage, or from US foster care?  Why should my well-off, educated Hispanic friends have more access than low-income people of any color?

 

[Bluegoat]

2 hours ago, katilac said:

I see Native American and Pacific Islander pretty often, and I can't remember the last time I didn't see an option to leave it blank. Maybe because it's a school? There is a National Hispanic Scholar program, so I guess the kindest interpretation is that they want to make all eligible students aware of it. 

Okay, apparently there is a national standard for this! Hispanic/Latino or not is indeed the only ethnicity. Native American/Alaskan Native, Pacific Islander, Asian, black, and white are the race categories. https://www.iowadatacenter.org/aboutdata/raceclassification

 

That seems like a weird division.

I understand that Hispanic is a language category, so it would be separate from those others.  But some of the others sound like an ethnicity to me more than race - you are of Pacific Islander descent whether or not you consider that to be a "race" which I think most wouldn't.

[Sneezyone]

42 minutes ago, maize said:

Is it common with black communities to differentiate this way? "Black American" for those who have been here for generations, mostly going back to slave immigrants, and African American for first/second generation immigrants? I've only heard African American used to identify all black Americans but I mostly associated it with non-immigrants.

Most of the black people I have associated with in my lifetime are actually first or second generation immigrants from African nations, if they are first generation I just think of them as the nationality they were born into. (And in my case many have been immigrants not to the US but to other countries, where assimilation is even more difficult than here).

How would you think of someone like Barack Obama whose black heritage was African, was not raised in a black household, but seems to identify as Black American? Ethnically, that is a complex situation for sure. My guess is that people in such situations (and there are many) don't really have an ethnicity... amorphous as that concept may be.

It is customary to accept the self-identification of the persons you’re speaking about. Some identify primarily as Americans of African descent or black, others identify more closely with their country of origin. Research is showing that the inoculation toward racism that typically comes from being raised as part of the majority elsewhere largely dissipates after the second generation. 
 

As for Mr. Obama, many people go away to college or become adults and seek a closer connection with various unexplored parts of themselves, be it ethnicity or family or something else. It seems that was the case for him. What we are raised with/as and what we choose to claim (in terms of identity) for ourselves as adults can be very different things.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Sneezyone

[Bluegoat]

Sometimes there are questions like this because they are interested on collecting data about certain groups.  If you want to know how kids with Hispanic backgrounds compare to these from some other background, say in terms of school achievement, you have to have that recorded.

It can be pretty interesting to see what they include, and also what they don't include, because it says a lot about what people are concerned about or what they think is important.

[Sneezyone]

26 minutes ago, SKL said:

Religion really isn't a choice for kids though.  People can walk away from other cultural trappings as fast as from the religion they were raised in.  I know many people from other cultures who pick and choose which cultural practices to continue or not ... and for that matter, many people choose not to follow them in their home country also.

Maybe you are right about telling the school to add an option to not answer.  Currently they won't let you submit the registration without clicking one of the two boxes.

As for the scholarship - I feel that is unfair.  I know many Hispanic people who are in a better than average situation as far as ability to access higher education.  Why should my kids have access to a scholarship that is denied to kids adopted from a Russian, Indian, or Ethiopian orphanage, or from US foster care?  Why should my well-off, educated Hispanic friends have more access than low-income people of any color?

 

Religion may not be a choice for the young but culture is more than religion. It is language, food, customs/traditions, music, dress, etc.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Sneezyone

[Bluegoat]

I don't think it matters that people choose, or can choose, religion.  It can be something that people are concerned about tracking just like anything else.  It might be quite interesting to know what the school enrolments or achievements were like for Catholic kids, as opposed to Protestant ones, up through the early part of the 20th century.  At least in certain parts of the world.

It's no longer that important in the secular west, or at least that is people's perception, and I expect that's why we don't see many forms asking.

[Farrar]

If it’s meaningful to your kids, SKL, even if they don’t outwardly seem connected in traditional ways to Hispanic culture or they identify for reasons you don’t fully agree with, I feel sort of uncomfortable reading the way you’re dismissive of that. As I understand it, you don’t share this heritage with them. Is there a reason you’re so hostile to them claiming it for themselves, even if it’s just with a check box on a form?

[Sneezyone]

We’ve had this discussion before (about the way SKL identifies her girls) and her discomfort with the minority/Hispanic label. It may be time to turn this decision/choice over to the kids (they are in middle school, yes?) and let them sort it out. I’d still talk to the district tho so ‘prefer not to state’ is also an option.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Sneezyone

[Jean in Newcastle]

Both my multi-racial multi-ethnic kids have always chosen their own designations. One actually does not identify the way that most would pigeonhole her but it’s her identity and (so far anyway ) no one has made a big deal of it and I hope they never do. 

[Frances]

5 hours ago, SKL said:

 

 

3 hours ago, SKL said:

Religion really isn't a choice for kids though.  People can walk away from other cultural trappings as fast as from the religion they were raised in.  I know many people from other cultures who pick and choose which cultural practices to continue or not ... and for that matter, many people choose not to follow them in their home country also.

Maybe you are right about telling the school to add an option to not answer.  Currently they won't let you submit the registration without clicking one of the two boxes.

 

 

Religion certainly is a choice for some kids. I’ve known several people who became Christians in high school or middle school, even though their parents were not religious. One of them is now married to a pastor and her parents are still not religious.  I’ve also known many people who stopped believing and attending church while still living at home. Not all parents require their children to follow their religious beliefs or non-beliefs while they are dependents.

I agree the school should not force people to answer the question. Maybe nobody has complained before.

[gardenmom5]

7 hours ago, SKL said:

This is a pet peeve of mine ... why are "Hispanic" and "not Hispanic" the only two "ethnicities" apparently recognized officially in the USA?

Just filled out registration forms for my kids to go to the public school.  They are online and there is no option to leave it blank.

We don't experience Latino culture any more than any other family that travels around.  My kids speak English, hate Latino food, and are much more into Korean than Latin culture.  Someone convinced them that they are Hispanic because they were born in a country that Spain conquered centuries ago.  So now, if asked, they will say "Hispanic" to ethnicity, and I go along with that.  But it is really meaningless.

If ethnicity is so important, then why must the rest of us be satisfied with "not Hispanic"?  What kind of ethnicity is that?  Are my Indian, Greek, Ukrainian, Chinese, and American-born friends all the same - do they all have more in common than my kids have with me?

Rant rant rant!  They should offer a list of ethnicities if this is such an important thing for them to know.

I hear you.  I still smile at a couple I knew years ago.  she was hawaiin. they moved to the pnw, and that's where her kids were born and raised.  when they'd go visit her family in Hawaii - her big Hawaiian looking sons - would sit on the beach and whine about the weather.  (they wanted rain.)

[gardenmom5]

22 minutes ago, Frances said:

 

Religion certainly is a choice for some kids. I’ve known several people who became Christians in high school or middle school, even though their parents were not religious. One of them is now married to a pastor and her parents are still not religious.  I’ve also known many people who stopped believing and attending church while still living at home. Not all parents require their children to follow their religious beliefs or non-beliefs while they are dependents.

I agree the school should not force people to answer the question. Maybe nobody has complained before.

I agree, it was for me, and it is something my kids have chosen (they're the ones that have to "do it" - works best if they want to).  - my mother wavered from atheist to agnostic.   throughout my life.  when I was in first grade - my parents started attending a unitarian church (in name only) for the "social aspect" that would make "average" unitarians seem downright ultra-conservative in comparison!  I utterly loathed that place, from day one. to this day - memories of all associated with it make me shudder.

(my maternal grandmother watched jim and tammy faye - and that was her "religion" for the week.  still makes my eyes water.)

I'm religious because I chose to be, I didn't' let anyone in my family know what I was thinking until I was ready to stand up to my grandmother, and her ('agree with me or else") opinions.  - I've reared my children in a religious home.  I had one who didn't participate for several years, but now participates because they want to.  kids move away - they're they ones who choose if they will or won't.

[SKL]

3 hours ago, Farrar said:

If it’s meaningful to your kids, SKL, even if they don’t outwardly seem connected in traditional ways to Hispanic culture or they identify for reasons you don’t fully agree with, I feel sort of uncomfortable reading the way you’re dismissive of that. As I understand it, you don’t share this heritage with them. Is there a reason you’re so hostile to them claiming it for themselves, even if it’s just with a check box on a form?

I am supportive of their choice to claim it if they want to, but I don't think it should be a required question for anyone, especially if the majority of people's ethnicity isn't represented.

I also think that choice or no choice, it is going to be misleading to include my kids in that demographic.  It's one thing for them to say they are Hispanic, another for policy/funding decisions to be made on that basis.

Mostly I think it's disrespectful and just plain ignorant to treat Hispanics differently from everyone else.

[SKL]

3 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

We’ve had this discussion before (about the way SKL identifies her girls) and her discomfort with the minority/Hispanic label. It may be time to turn this decision/choice over to the kids (they are in middle school, yes?) and let them sort it out. I’d still talk to the district tho so ‘prefer not to state’ is also an option.

Like I said - my kids do choose what they want to call themselves, and have been choosing it for a couple years now.  (Before that, they didn't really have an awareness of it.)  I'm fine with that.  I would be fine if they said they weren't Hispanic also.

I'm not fine with the way info is officially gathered.  First of all, people don't agree on the definitions.  Secondly, it is illogical how they decide what categories of data to collect.  And third, it is misleading when people with a mixed heritage (biological and/or cultural) are sifted into these arbitrary categories.

[Jean in Newcastle]

20 minutes ago, SKL said:

Like I said - my kids do choose what they want to call themselves, and have been choosing it for a couple years now.  (Before that, they didn't really have an awareness of it.)  I'm fine with that.  I would be fine if they said they weren't Hispanic also.

I'm not fine with the way info is officially gathered.  First of all, people don't agree on the definitions.  Secondly, it is illogical how they decide what categories of data to collect.  And third, it is misleading when people with a mixed heritage (biological and/or cultural) are sifted into these arbitrary categories.

Then you need to lobby to change your state law because schools are doing it because they are required to do so by law. 

[kiwik]

10 hours ago, SKL said:

This is a pet peeve of mine ... why are "Hispanic" and "not Hispanic" the only two "ethnicities" apparently recognized officially in the USA?

Just filled out registration forms for my kids to go to the public school.  They are online and there is no option to leave it blank.

We don't experience Latino culture any more than any other family that travels around.  My kids speak English, hate Latino food, and are much more into Korean than Latin culture.  Someone convinced them that they are Hispanic because they were born in a country that Spain conquered centuries ago.  So now, if asked, they will say "Hispanic" to ethnicity, and I go along with that.  But it is really meaningless.

If ethnicity is so important, then why must the rest of us be satisfied with "not Hispanic"?  What kind of ethnicity is that?  Are my Indian, Greek, Ukrainian, Chinese, and American-born friends all the same - do they all have more in common than my kids have with me?

Rant rant rant!  They should offer a list of ethnicities if this is such an important thing for them to kno

I thought it was about getting statistical data for funding but Hispanic or non Hispanic doesn't seem that useful.

Edited November 27, 2019 by kiwik

[mom2scouts]

12 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

Religion may not be a choice for the young but culture is more than religion. It is language, food, customs/traditions, music, dress, etc.

What about Jews? Even those who don't practice the Jewish religion are usually considered Jewish. They need to note that on things like medical forms because there are certain health issues more common in Jews. Maybe that's an unusual one since it's both a religion and an ethnicity?

[wintermom]

I agree 100%. It's unethical, in my mind, certainly for minor children.  As a perspective, Health Canada does not approve these types of questions for minors in health research.

For the OP, can you simply answer N/A? You are not required to voluntarily provide that information, surely.

[vonfirmath]

36 minutes ago, mom2scouts said:

What about Jews? Even those who don't practice the Jewish religion are usually considered Jewish. They need to note that on things like medical forms because there are certain health issues more common in Jews. Maybe that's an unusual one since it's both a religion and an ethnicity?

 

I have actually not seen Jew as a choice on any school form I've filled out.

 

[SKL]

25 minutes ago, wintermom said:

I agree 100%. It's unethical, in my mind, certainly for minor children.  As a perspective, Health Canada does not approve these types of questions for minors in health research.

For the OP, can you simply answer N/A? You are not required to voluntarily provide that information, surely.

NA is not an option.  It is an online form and you have to check either "Hispanic" or "Not Hispanic" in order to submit the registration to go to school.

[SKL]

11 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

 

I have actually not seen Jew as a choice on any school form I've filled out.

 

I think it has to do with the separation of church and state, though I am not sure.

[wintermom]

7 minutes ago, SKL said:

NA is not an option.  It is an online form and you have to check either "Hispanic" or "Not Hispanic" in order to submit the registration to go to school.

That is bizarre. School boards are the worst as far as ethics and data collection, IMO.  They ask far more than they should. Any other organization would not be allowed to do what they try to do. 

[Lanny]

OP there are 45 replies as I begin to type this and I have not read them. I have never seen a form with a question phrased like you described. I don't know which state/county/city you live in, but IMO that form is not typical.  My daughter is Latina and her skin color is White.  I think they are asking for Ethnicity, and for for Latinx (Hispanic) people, they can be of many different races. Black, White, etc.  I have seen forms where they ask if the applicant is Asian American or African American or Native American or Caucasian or whatever. Those are Races. I have never seen a form phrased as you described, so limited and that would seem wrong to me too. There may be special programs where the school district receives additional $ from your state, for Latinx students, to help them do better in their performance, as there are for African Americans? 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Lanny

[Lanny]

15 hours ago, SKL said:

Yes, but is that the only scholarship program (or whatever it is) where "ethnicity" matters?  If so, that doesn't seem right either!

 

The National Hispanic Recognition  Program is not a Scholarship. It is a program of the CollegeBoard to recognize the Latinx students who do the best on the PSAT/NMSQT during October of their Junior year in High School. I believe the top 2.5% of the Latinx test takers.   It is an Honor, not a Scholarship. My DD qualified for that.

There are Scholarships for people who are Hispanic, or African American, or Catholic, or employees or children of certain companies, etc.  The Scholarship search engines (on CollegeBoard.org and other web sites) make it easy to find those scholarships.

[Terabith]

46 minutes ago, parent said:

I don't believe in races on forms as I think it promotes racism.  When I get a phone survey, I always say I'm part of the human race.  

My D&D playing kid with autism was filling out a form at school that asked her to list her race, and she was genuinely confused.  She wrote human, but she was baffled.  "Why are they asking?  Elves and orcs and dwarves and such are just imaginary."

[Bluegoat]

3 hours ago, SKL said:

I think it has to do with the separation of church and state, though I am not sure.

 

I think wintermom is in Canada.  It wouldn't generally be relevant to collect school data on Jewish kids in most of Canada.

What I do see here are forms asking about whether students are French, or Acadian since I am in the East, or African-Canadian, or indigenous/Metis. All of those groups have special programs or language rights or similar things attached to them, which is why they ask.

[wintermom]

27 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

I think wintermom is in Canada.  It wouldn't generally be relevant to collect school data on Jewish kids in most of Canada.

What I do see here are forms asking about whether students are French, or Acadian since I am in the East, or African-Canadian, or indigenous/Metis. All of those groups have special programs or language rights or similar things attached to them, which is why they ask.

I really hate with the school boards start asking minor children these kinds of questions. The reason is that they do not clearly offer the option of N/A. The school boards do not have the right to ask this kind of personal information. It can be freely given, but it is not required. It's an invasion of privacy.

[Sneezyone]

6 hours ago, mom2scouts said:

What about Jews? Even those who don't practice the Jewish religion are usually considered Jewish. They need to note that on things like medical forms because there are certain health issues more common in Jews. Maybe that's an unusual one since it's both a religion and an ethnicity?

As I said, culture is more than religion. Religion, unlike ‘color’ is less easily assumed based on physical appearance.