this came over an autism feed today...

[gardenmom5]

it makes me sad, angry, want to cry... I know I have been fighting to meet my son's needs - and have been brushed off by too many "professionals".  I think I finally have a program I can work with - 

and then there are teachers like this...  

[Tanaqui]

Well, she can just drop dead. Why do people like this even get into teaching? There must be more appropriate jobs they can take where they won't cause any harm.

[maize]

There was another one I saw recently, a "most likely to stay at (elementary school) forever" award given to an 11 year old girl with ASD.

Do these adults not think or do they actually enjoy bullying children?

[gardenmom5]

15 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

Well, she can just drop dead. Why do people like this even get into teaching? There must be more appropriate jobs they can take where they won't cause any harm.

 

7 minutes ago, maize said:

There was another one I saw recently, a "most likely to stay at (elementary school) forever" award given to an 11 year old girl with ASD.

Do these adults not think or do they actually enjoy bullying children?

i think for both questions- they can't be successful in any other field.  "those who can't - teach".   which is unfair to some wonderful teachers, but is too true for others.

1dd had a high school math teacher on his SEVENTH "career".  he was 35.  he was an abject failure as a teacher - and would retaliate against any student who complained. they kept him for the whole year because if they got rid of him, they'd have to find a math teacher in the middle of the school years.

[katilac]

10 minutes ago, maize said:

Do these adults not think or do they actually enjoy bullying children?

While I would prefer to believe they just don't think, this idiot had a trophy custom made. 

[Rosie_0801]

I'm generally not a vengeful person, but I gotta say, that's exactly where my mind went. The teacher, the prat who actually made the trophy...

[happi duck]

That's horrible!

When I was a public school teacher I worked with some truly awful teachers.  There are just not enough good teachers to go around.

[Shoeless]

😞 

What a miserable person this teacher must be. 

[Tanaqui]

2 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

i think for both questions- they can't be successful in any other field.  "those who can't - teach".   which is unfair to some wonderful teachers, but is too true for others.

 

Oh, no, I'm sure that somewhere there's a town that urgently needs a public poop scooper.

Quote

 

Do these adults not think or do they actually enjoy bullying children?

 

 

Definitely the latter, and then they go into teaching so they can do it ever so much more efficiently.

Though they probably don't think either, or else they'd be more careful not to get caught by the parents.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Tanaqui

[TheReader]

I just can't even.....this is horrific. 

[gardenmom5]

10 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

Well, she can just drop dead. Why do people like this even get into teaching? There must be more appropriate jobs they can take where they won't cause any harm.

same reason misogynists go into obstetrics.

9 hours ago, katilac said:

While I would prefer to believe they just don't think, this idiot had a trophy custom made. 

and when the dad tried to leave it at the restaurant - she reminded the boy to be sure to take his trophy.  she's a bully.  at least the principle/district were also horrified by her behavior.

41 minutes ago, Medicmom2.0 said:

I’m about to walk into a meeting with the teacher and social worker that spent four weeks shutting my nine year old son with autism into a bathroom when he’d have an autistic behavior.

I probably shouldn’t have read that right now....

I hate people.  If you don’t hear from me assume I need bail.

I hope things go well, and the teacher and sw are held accountable.  the hive has your back.  We'll all bake you cakes with files in them.

[Junie]

1 hour ago, Medicmom2.0 said:

I’m about to walk into a meeting with the teacher and social worker that spent four weeks shutting my nine year old son with autism into a bathroom when he’d have an autistic behavior.

I probably shouldn’t have read that right now....

I hate people.  If you don’t hear from me assume I need bail.

I am so sorry.

[alisoncooks]

I'm baffled by that teacher. Even if they were a bully to the student in class, at least most people are smart enough CTAs, right? Like who puts that out in front of everyone and thinks it's appropriate?   Perhaps they were looking to get fired, idk. 

I hope the child didn't understand the cruelty of that adult, and I hope it's not an indicator of what the school year was for him. 

[gardenmom5]

4 minutes ago, alisoncooks said:

I'm baffled by that teacher. Even if they were a bully to the student in class, at least most people are smart enough CTAs, right? Like who puts that out in front of everyone and thinks it's appropriate?   Perhaps they were looking to get fired, idk. 

I hope the child didn't understand the cruelty of that adult, and I hope it's not an indicator of what the school year was for him. 

someone who is pretty arrogant.  there are a lot of people who are that arrogant.   the thing is, they start out covering their tracks, and dont' get caught/held accountable - their arrogance leads them to being more blasé, less careful, more "daring", they become convinced they're invincible.

I'm currently following a dv case in CT where the husband is clearly guilty of murder (even without her body)- his sheer arrogance was on record. even when she filed for a retraining order because she feared for her life (she didn't get it btw. that judge should be ashamed.) - he was in her face arrogant about the fact she didn't get it.

the grandmother had the kids at her house - with armed guards to keep him away.  he and his side-squeeze have now been arrested.

[happi duck]

I think those end of the year awards are wrong.  Every year we hear of awful and hurtful ones.  There must be many more that the world never hears about because the receivers are too ashamed to tell anyone.

The "good" awards aren't helpful either, imo.  They add pressure and/or potentially build up the same kids every year cementing everyone's perception/definition of them.  Kwim?

 

[katilac]

15 minutes ago, happi duck said:

I think those end of the year awards are wrong.  Every year we hear of awful and hurtful ones.  There must be many more that the world never hears about because the receivers are too ashamed to tell anyone.

The "good" awards aren't helpful either, imo.  They add pressure and/or potentially build up the same kids every year cementing everyone's perception/definition of them.  Kwim?

Absolutely. I do not see the purpose, at all. People are not defined by one trait. 

[TechWife]

This is so appalling.

[maize]

10 hours ago, happi duck said:

I think those end of the year awards are wrong.  Every year we hear of awful and hurtful ones.  There must be many more that the world never hears about because the receivers are too ashamed to tell anyone.

The "good" awards aren't helpful either, imo.  They add pressure and/or potentially build up the same kids every year cementing everyone's perception/definition of them.  Kwim?

 

Yeah, I attended the awards ceremony for my 5th grader's school and the whole thing made me uncomfortable. The awards themselves were very nice, nothing weird, but the fact that the whole school has to be there for a few students to receive very subjective honors...it just mostly felt like a way for teachers to say "these are my favorite students and the rest of you aren't". Also, there were perfect attendance awards which makes no sense to me--congratulations on not getting sick this year? Or congratulations for coming to school even when you were sick and spreading your germs?

[klmama]

1 hour ago, maize said:

Also, there were perfect attendance awards which makes no sense to me--congratulations on not getting sick this year? Or congratulations for coming to school even when you were sick and spreading your germs?

They had this in my school, but it wasn't for just the one year; it was for anyone having perfect attendance K-12.  There was a student in my grade who came to school sick several times every year, because he had determined in 2nd grade that he wanted that award at the end of 12th grade.  Believe me, he was the only one excited about winning that award - all the rest of us thought about the many sick days that we could trace back to him.  

Edited June 5, 2019 by klmama

[moonflower]

When I was a senior in high school in 2002. the orchestra teacher gave out awards like these at the end of the year to seniors.  I got the "Could Be Pretty If I Tried" award.  It was a great orchestra and he was a very good director (and still works afaik) but he definitely had appropriateness issues.  Did it maybe ever occur to him that the reason some girls don't "try" is because they're trying to avoid being hit on by boys or teachers?

sigh

[kiwik]

4 hours ago, moonflower said:

When I was a senior in high school in 2002. the orchestra teacher gave out awards like these at the end of the year to seniors.  I got the "Could Be Pretty If I Tried" award.  It was a great orchestra and he was a very good director (and still works afaik) but he definitely had appropriateness issues.  Did it maybe ever occur to him that the reason some girls don't "try" is because they're trying to avoid being hit on by boys or teachers?

sigh

What gets me about this and the other examples (apart from the obvious awfulness) is that there appears to have been no-one checking.  Surely if you are getting a whole new trophy made then someone should have to approve it - aren't trophies usually only given for a year then reused?  Wouldn't someone have typed up a list and pointed it out to someone?

[DawnM]

I can't believe this crap still happens.  The article says disciplinary action was taken.  I hope at the very least that the teacher was put on a watch list to be monitored and that the district will stop ALL punitive awards.

All teachers need to get training in how to deal with students on the spectrum.

This year we had some significant issues with a teacher and a student on the spectrum.  I kind of took him under my wing and he would pretty much only respond to me if he had meltdowns, so they call me to go to the classes or hallways if he needs me.   His mother sent me a nice note saying that she was so grateful I was there and they didn't know how they would have made it through the year if I hadn't been there.  It meant a lot to me.  He reminds me of my own son.

Edited June 5, 2019 by DawnM

[Guest]

9 hours ago, maize said:

Yeah, I attended the awards ceremony for my 5th grader's school and the whole thing made me uncomfortable. The awards themselves were very nice, nothing weird, but the fact that the whole school has to be there for a few students to receive very subjective honors...it just mostly felt like a way for teachers to say "these are my favorite students and the rest of you aren't". Also, there were perfect attendance awards which makes no sense to me--congratulations on not getting sick this year? Or congratulations for coming to school even when you were sick and spreading your germs?

And the other way around leads to the whole “participation trophy” thing. My former school did honors programs every 6 weeks, and gave ribbons for honor roll, effort, behavior, improving grades, attendance, improved behavior....basically, if you came to school regularly and didn’t end up in the principal’s office too often, you would get something. The end of year program added awards for every single club or sports team, positive attitude, participation in various programs, AR points, awards in each subject areas, plus lots of other stuff. It was all positive, but ultimately meaningless. 

[Just Kate]

My kids’ school does classroom awards through 6th grade. Each student gets an awards based on a positive trait that the teacher noticed in them over the year. The kids love it and I think these awards help the students to see things in themselves that they may not have realized before. There are good ways to do class awards to lift kids up rather than tear them down. I am appalled by the teacher in this story though. That is just terrible. ☹️

[gardenmom5]

8 hours ago, DawnM said:

I can't believe this crap still happens.  The article says disciplinary action was taken.  I hope at the very least that the teacher was put on a watch list to be monitored and that the district will stop ALL punitive awards.

All teachers need to get training in how to deal with students on the spectrum.

This year we had some significant issues with a teacher and a student on the spectrum.  I kind of took him under my wing and he would pretty much only respond to me if he had meltdowns, so they call me to go to the classes or hallways if he needs me.   His mother sent me a nice note saying that she was so grateful I was there and they didn't know how they would have made it through the year if I hadn't been there.  It meant a lot to me.  He reminds me of my own son.

frankly - it depends upon the type of training they've received.  there is one person who is at district with influence over spec. needs.  I've watched her with my son (fortunately - she see's him for an hour in a group/meeting maybe once a year.).  she's had training - but she thinks how you treat uptight aspies is to hold the figurative stick, threatening them/making them afraid thinking it will make them comply.   I would need to video their encounters so I could break it down into pieces and be able to explain to her what she is doing wrong, and why she just ticks him off.

I really like the aspergersexpert.com site I found over the weekend.  these guys have aspergers - and their suggestions go after the root of why high functioning aspies are the way they are.  teachers/therapists/etc - go after upper levels, but if you go after the root (they call it "defense mode".  and boy does their explanation explain dudeling!!!   re: so they feel safe and can come out from behind their walls), those upper level things (re: social skills, exec. function)  will take care of themselves.  these are aspies - and this was what worked for them.

 

[DawnM]

1 minute ago, gardenmom5 said:

frankly - it depends upon the type of training they've received.  there is one person who is at district with influence over spec. needs.  I've watched her with my son (fortunately - she see's him for an hour in a group/meeting maybe once a year.).  she's had training - but she thinks how you treat uptight aspies is to hold the figurative stick, threatening them/making them afraid thinking it will make them comply.   I would need to video their encounters so I could break it down into pieces and be able to explain to her what she is doing wrong, and why she just ticks him off.

I really like the aspergersexpert.com site I found over the weekend.  these guys have aspergers - and their suggestions go after the root of why high functioning aspies are the way they are.  teachers/therapists/etc - go after upper levels, but if you go after the root (they call it "defense mode".  and boy does their explanation explain dudeling!!!   re: so they feel safe and can come out from behind their walls), those upper level things (re: social skills, exec. function)  will take care of themselves.  these are aspies - and this was what worked for them.

 

It would just be a training with one person's opinions, most of what we are trained in (allergies, etc...) are state wide initiatives/mandates and we have to give in-services in a particular way.

There are things about aspergersexpert.com I like and some things that I don't.  I just take what I do like and leave the rest.  They aren't the end all be all.  As the saying goes, "When you have met one person with Asperger's, well, you have met one person with Asperger's."

I homeschooled because the PS didn't work for him.  Period.  I wish there had been a specific program.  But there wasn't.

[Innisfree]

12 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

if you go after the root (they call it "defense mode".  and boy does their explanation explain dudeling!!!   re: so they feel safe and can come out from behind their walls), those upper level things (re: social skills, exec. function)  will take care of themselves.

The defense mode explanation works very well for dd, too, but the trouble is that those very same upper-level skills still do not magically appear. 

It isn't social skills really. She knows all about saying please and thank you, and taking turns, and so on. She does those things, so people think she's alright in various situations.

What's still lacking is the ability to imagine how the world looks from another point of view; and the ability to consider different scenarios before fastening on one interpretation; and the ability to adapt under pressure.

I'm glad it works for dudeling. The basic approach is good for us, too. It's just a start, not the whole deal: necessary but not sufficient.

[Lecka]

My husband saw this story I think, and I have a very nice letter ready to go to school tomorrow stating we do not consent to restraint or seclusion and would also wish to be notified immediately of any issue.

The thing is — i was concerned about this 5-6 years ago when it was actually a very relevant issue, and my husband just could not handle dealing with it in anyway (as in — denial it needed to be something we would need to be on top of).  Sigh.  

From when I cared about this in a more immediate way ———— what I remember as recommendations were to ask to see a school’s restraint and seclusion in writing, state in writing you don’t give consent, see about getting a quality behavior plan, and inquire about the crisis prevention training of staff.

 

[katilac]

10 hours ago, kiwik said:

What gets me about this and the other examples (apart from the obvious awfulness) is that there appears to have been no-one checking.  Surely if you are getting a whole new trophy made then someone should have to approve it - aren't trophies usually only given for a year then reused?  Wouldn't someone have typed up a list and pointed it out to someone?

No, I've never heard of trophies being reused. Someone would have to type up the list of trophies, yes, but it may have been that teacher who did it (or they all turned in their own list to the trophy shop).

9 hours ago, dmmetler said:

And the other way around leads to the whole “participation trophy” thing. My former school did honors programs every 6 weeks, and gave ribbons for honor roll, effort, behavior, improving grades, attendance, improved behavior....basically, if you came to school regularly and didn’t end up in the principal’s office too often, you would get something. The end of year program added awards for every single club or sports team, positive attitude, participation in various programs, AR points, awards in each subject areas, plus lots of other stuff. It was all positive, but ultimately meaningless. 

I think that every six weeks is overkill, but don't be too quick to write off alternative awards as meaningless. To kids who struggle and rarely get positive recognition, that participation award might be very meaningful indeed. 

[gardenmom5]

2 hours ago, Innisfree said:

The defense mode explanation works very well for dd, too, but the trouble is that those very same upper-level skills still do not magically appear. 

It isn't social skills really. She knows all about saying please and thank you, and taking turns, and so on. She does those things, so people think she's alright in various situations.

What's still lacking is the ability to imagine how the world looks from another point of view; and the ability to consider different scenarios before fastening on one interpretation; and the ability to adapt under pressure.

I'm glad it works for dudeling. The basic approach is good for us, too. It's just a start, not the whole deal: necessary but not sufficient.

they may need training - but here's the interesting part.  most people learn them through "mirror cells" in the brain.  they "mirror" behavior seen.  for those with asd, those mirror cells are turned off.  if you can get them to turn on - the social skills and exec. function will be much easier to learn/acquire.   for me - it makes sense.  for kids who have more going on, it may well not work - but for higher functioning - there's a chance it will.

[Rosie_0801]

4 hours ago, Innisfree said:

What's still lacking is the ability to imagine how the world looks from another point of view; and the ability to consider different scenarios before fastening on one interpretation; and the ability to adapt under pressure.

 

Or the ability to imagine how the world looks from too many points of view. 

[Innisfree]

3 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

Or the ability to imagine how the world looks from too many points of view. 

Okay, now I'm not understanding. 

Do you mean that, from the perspective of the person on the spectrum, it feels like being asked to see the world from too many points of view? 

[Rosie_0801]

1 minute ago, Innisfree said:

Okay, now I'm not understanding. 

Do you mean that, from the perspective of the person on the spectrum, it feels like being asked to see the world from too many points of view? 

 

It is commonly held wisdom that people on the spectrum can't view the world from other people's points of view. The younger they are, the more likely that is to be true, just as it is for NT kids.  It is probably more true for males than females. (I don't know, I mainly hang out with female Aspies.) I do know that a person who can't see other people's points of view presents pretty much the same as a person who can see too many points of view and doesn't know which one these frustratingly inconsistent humans want this time. It's also why I have an annoying habit of giving people what they need instead of what they want.

So, to answer your question, no. It is not like being asked to see the world from too many points of view. It is having too many points of view already, not being given enough clues to win the guessing game and knowing full well it will be considered your fault you guessed wrong even though they didn't provide reasonable directions. It's like trying to play a game guessing the intro music from tv shows, when different shows can have the same theme music, and sometimes the same show has different theme music. Who can be expected to win? How do you even start playing?

[Innisfree]

Thank you, Rosie. That sounds very frustrating. I appreciate the insights.

[gardenmom5]

54 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

It is commonly held wisdom that people on the spectrum can't view the world from other people's points of view. The younger they are, the more likely that is to be true, just as it is for NT kids.  It is probably more true for males than females. (I don't know, I mainly hang out with female Aspies.) I do know that a person who can't see other people's points of view presents pretty much the same as a person who can see too many points of view and doesn't know which one these frustratingly inconsistent humans want this time. It's also why I have an annoying habit of giving people what they need instead of what they want.

So, to answer your question, no. It is not like being asked to see the world from too many points of view. It is having too many points of view already, not being given enough clues to win the guessing game and knowing full well it will be considered your fault you guessed wrong even though they didn't provide reasonable directions. It's like trying to play a game guessing the intro music from tv shows, when different shows can have the same theme music, and sometimes the same show has different theme music. Who can be expected to win? How do you even start playing?

and reason #564 why I wish I could like your posts.....

this is me-.

 

one thing I picked up on as we're doing the defense mode course.  neurologist are of the opinion there are as many at 21 different senses (or merely 9).  I think we aspies are more aware of those other senses - which can make us feel overwhelmed - even though we don't know what they are.  yoga was really helpful for me that way.

[Rosie_0801]

11 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

and reason #564 why I wish I could like your posts.....

this is me-.

 

one thing I picked up on as we're doing the defense mode course.  neurologist are of the opinion there are as many at 21 different senses (or merely 9).  I think we aspies are more aware of those other senses - which can make us feel overwhelmed - even though we don't know what they are.  yoga was really helpful for me that way.

 

Being "deficient" for having too much of something would be delicious, if only it was happening to a character in a novel instead of us.

[Terabith]

I keep thinking not only about how awful this horrible "teacher" was, but the people who made the trophy.  You would think someone along the line would have said something about how very inappropriate this award was.

[TechWife]

8 hours ago, DawnM said:

It would just be a training with one person's opinions, most of what we are trained in (allergies, etc...) are state wide initiatives/mandates and we have to give in-services in a particular way.

There are things about aspergersexpert.com I like and some things that I don't.  I just take what I do like and leave the rest.  They aren't the end all be all.  As the saying goes, "When you have met one person with Asperger's, well, you have met one person with Asperger's."

I homeschooled because the PS didn't work for him.  Period.  I wish there had been a specific program.  But there wasn't.

 

I had the same reaction to asperbersexpert.com, Dawn. I could use some things, but not others. Mostly I stopped referring to the site because, whether they intend to or not (likely not), they are condescending towards parents. I realize that may be a social skill deficit of theirs, but it is difficult to watch something when the speaker doesn't appear to respect their audience. I absolutely love my son and will gladly walk him thorough or ignore (when appropriate or when I'm just exhausted) his sometimes disrespectful social behaviors, but I'm not volunteering to get in line for those behaviors from other people, especially ones who are presenting themselves as experts on the topic at hand. They are experts in their own experiences, but like you said above, much that happens with ASD is individual and they certainly aren't experts in how to parent someone with ASD. OK, I got that off of my chest. Thank you all for "listening."

Edited June 6, 2019 by TechWife

[TechWife]

dp

Edited June 6, 2019 by TechWife

[happi duck]

19 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I keep thinking not only about how awful this horrible "teacher" was, but the people who made the trophy.  You would think someone along the line would have said something about how very inappropriate this award was.

Ita!  There were so many opportunities for someone to pause a second and give it a second thought!

[Slache]

I think nothing of the trophy itself or who made it. It could easily have been ordered online. I'm not convinced she's not the only one involved at all.

[gardenmom5]

2 hours ago, TechWife said:

 

I had the same reaction to asperbersexpert.com, Dawn. I could use some things, but not others. Mostly I stopped referring to the site because, whether they intend to or not (likely not), they are condescending towards parents. I realize that may be a social skill deficit of theirs, but it is difficult to watch something when the speaker doesn't appear to respect their audience. I absolutely love my son and will gladly walk him thorough or ignore (when appropriate or when I'm just exhausted) his sometimes disrespectful social behaviors, but I'm not volunteering to get in line for those behaviors from other people, especially ones who are presenting themselves as experts on the topic at hand. They are experts in their own experiences, but like you said above, much that happens with ASD is individual and they certainly aren't experts in how to parent someone with ASD. OK, I got that off of my chest. Thank you all for "listening."

as an aspie myself - it's an aspie trait, social skill deficit.  I've worked very very very hard on that tendency.   it's been harder for dd, because she's 2E. (and really is smarter than almost anyone else in the room.)  

frankly - if they've spent most of their growing up years being forced into programs to develop social skills and exec function by well-meaning NTs - including therapists, teachers, and parents, no matter how uncomfortable it made them - they have a legit reason to be frustrated.  I've watched how some "psychologists" manipulate and intimidate asd kids to get them to comply with their idea of what the child should be doing.  kids who are already feeling very fearful - are being threatened because they are trying to protect themselves from stressors.  

if you don't like it - don't use it.  I've been searching very hard for something to help, and have been brushed off by professionals, despite a child who talks about wishing he was dead.  as far as they're concerned - "he doesn't have a plan".  and I'm in a state that until very very recently - parents had zero say in the mental health care of children over 12.

[Rosie_0801]

40 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

as an aspie myself - it's an aspie trait, social skill deficit.  I've worked very very very hard on that tendency.   it's been harder for dd, because she's 2E. (and really is smarter than almost anyone else in the room.)  

frankly - if they've spent most of their growing up years being forced into programs to develop social skills and exec function by well-meaning NTs - including therapists, teachers, and parents, no matter how uncomfortable it made them - they have a legit reason to be frustrated.  I've watched how some "psychologists" manipulate and intimidate asd kids to get them to comply with their idea of what the child should be doing.  kids who are already feeling very fearful - are being threatened because they are trying to protect themselves from stressors.  

 

And yet in the rest of your post, you've explained about the NT's who do the same thing. It's not a specific Aspie deficit. It's an ordinary issue of cross cultural communication. 

[DawnM]

7 hours ago, TechWife said:

 

I had the same reaction to asperbersexpert.com, Dawn. I could use some things, but not others. Mostly I stopped referring to the site because, whether they intend to or not (likely not), they are condescending towards parents. I realize that may be a social skill deficit of theirs, but it is difficult to watch something when the speaker doesn't appear to respect their audience. I absolutely love my son and will gladly walk him thorough or ignore (when appropriate or when I'm just exhausted) his sometimes disrespectful social behaviors, but I'm not volunteering to get in line for those behaviors from other people, especially ones who are presenting themselves as experts on the topic at hand. They are experts in their own experiences, but like you said above, much that happens with ASD is individual and they certainly aren't experts in how to parent someone with ASD. OK, I got that off of my chest. Thank you all for "listening."

 

Ah, you probably hit one of the things that was bugging me but that I couldn't put my finger on.

[gardenmom5]

5 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

And yet in the rest of your post, you've explained about the NT's who do the same thing. It's not a specific Aspie deficit. It's an ordinary issue of cross cultural communication. 

??  my dd and I are both aspies.  the psychologist I personally was watching attempting to manipulate and intimidate an asd child she barely knows,   - is NT.  (same as a SLP I witnessed years ago -   the psychologist at that time tried to warn the slp to chillax...)

[Rosie_0801]

7 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

??  my dd and I are both aspies.  the psychologist I personally was watching attempting to manipulate and intimidate an asd child she barely knows,   - is NT.  (same as a SLP I witnessed years ago -   the psychologist at that time tried to warn the slp to chillax...)

 

You said being/appearing condescending was an Aspie thing, no? 
I was surprised by that because it is no more an Aspie thing than an anyone else thing.

[katilac]

13 hours ago, Terabith said:

I keep thinking not only about how awful this horrible "teacher" was, but the people who made the trophy.  You would think someone along the line would have said something about how very inappropriate this award was.

Do you mean the trophy shop itself, the people who took the order? Because it's not really on them to decide if what their customers order is appropriate, and at any rate they couldn't discuss it with anyone other than the person who placed the order. 

[Terabith]

1 hour ago, katilac said:

Do you mean the trophy shop itself, the people who took the order? Because it's not really on them to decide if what their customers order is appropriate, and at any rate they couldn't discuss it with anyone other than the person who placed the order. 

If I was working at a trophy shop and someone ordered a trophy engraved with the phrase, "Most Annoying Male," along with other traditional grade school (or high school) awards, I think I would say something like, "Ouch.  That seems hurtful.  Are you sure you want to do that?"

I mean, we live in a world where bakers can refuse to bake cakes for same sex weddings.  If I was the OWNER of the trophy shop, I'd feel fully justified in refusing to make a trophy with "Most Annoying" on it.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Terabith

[moonflower]

Mine was a very nicely printed (complete with hand drawings) certificate; I'm sure he did it himself.  If you're ordering something custom printed from a local shop, probably an employee is doing the printing/engraving, and probably the employee is very used to just printing whatever comes through without thinking about it.

We do custom printing (that's pretty much all we do) and we've never refused to print something. 

And FWIW, we live in a world where bakers have to be afraid of refusing to bake cakes for same sex weddings.

[Tanaqui]

Moving past the cakes issue, refusing to print a specific individualized message is different from refusing to provide the service at all. if you sell cakes, or trophies, or baseball gloves, then you have to sell them to everybody. But if you personalize them then you can set basic standards, just so long as they reasonably and fairly apply to everybody.

In this case, they couldn't selectively refuse to sell trophies to members of a protected class (like racial minorities... and I don't know why they'd do that, but it's just an example) but they certainly can refuse to sell trophies with demeaning messages on them. It gets tricky if the message is qualitatively similar to other messages they do sell AND a reasonable person would conclude that they refused to sell it because of the buyer or recipient's membership in a protected class. For example, if they were happy to sell trophies saying "Congratulations!" and trophies saying "Congratulations, $BOYNAME" but not trophies saying "Congratulations, $GIRLNAME" a reasonable person might conclude that they were, for some bizarre reason, opposed to selling trophies to girls and women. Well, that's a protected class, so no.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Tanaqui