Do people really not understand how the world works?

[Carrie12345]

I guess that's a dumb question.

 

A nearby school district has an enormous budget deficit.  I'm obviously not overly fond of the current education system (or my kids would be in it), including the funding system, so I don't feel like I'll ever be one of it's biggest cheerleaders, however...

 

Internet comments indicate that people actually believe that renters "don't pay property tax" , including school taxes.  How does that jive in their heads?  Landlords just cut a personal check because they're generous?  If that's the case, I need to sell my house and rent from someone!

 

Also, "Why should I pay for schools when I'm not in them and don't have kids in them?"  Where do these people think their future services are going to come from?  Do they really not care if they have capable doctors, reliable utilities, literate customer service representatives, or contractors who understand codes?  What's in it for you??? How about first world status.

 

People make me sad.

[Melissa in Australia]

So glad we don't Have school tax on property here in Australia

[Pawz4me]

There  are many people who truly don't understand.

 

There are also many people who seem to have no critical thinking skills at all and who totally lack the ability to see the big picture.

[Carrie12345]

I don’t mind taxes so much as I mind wasteful spending on bloated bureaucracy. Fortunately the more local the tax the less of an issue that tends to be. Folks who want all the high tax amenities and don’t want to pay for them boggle my mind a bit. 

 

Exactly.  There are big issues in our tax spending, and there are big issues in our schools, overall.  But there's zero chance of fixing them if we focus on the ridiculous assumption that people aren't paying taxes, or that we shouldn't be paying taxes.

 

And then it freaks me out to realize most of these people probably had public educations...

[Carrie12345]

So glad we don't Have school tax on property here in Australia

 

I voted to allow our state to propose changes to our funding sources, so it's possible that my family will eventually see an increase in school taxes, just under a different source.  Whatever. School's gotta be paid for somehow!

[Joyofsixreboot]

1. People want services they don't want to pay for. 2. Each state has it's own school funding quirks. Our money is tied to the student not the school district. 3. People (some people, sometimes) are stupid and lazy. As in willfully remaining ignorant. ~sigh~

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[kewb]

To answer your question, there are a surprising number of people who have no idea how taxes work. You are left shaking your head and wanting to say " That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works."

We are in the midst of an overpopulation issue in the town I live in. The comments that have arisen during discussions for various solutions have been outrageous. I don't love that my taxes will be going up to pay for construction on the middle schools to expand. I recognize that it needs to be done and will pull on my girl underpants and deal with it. I will also attend meetings to learn where there is bloat and inefficient spending and try to effect change.

 

I do pay high taxes. I happen to get some great services for my taxes. Sure, I would like more, but I don't want to pay more taxes so I manage to survive without them.

[AnnE-girl]

I wonder if we’re in the same state? I just saw a similar news story sort of near us. Our state does have a lot of bloated bureaucracy that is wasteful. And the political patronage is depressing. Schools do need to be paid for, however.

 

Way back in the sixties, my grandparents’ neighbor complained to my grandpa that it really wasn’t fair that my grandparents got out of paying the school portion of they property taxes because their kids went to Catholic school. My grandpa informed his that he payed twice, both taxes for the schools his family didn’t use and private school tuition. People didn’t get it then either.

Edited December 12, 2017 by AnnE-girl

[Guest]

Well, hang on, though. We are property managers for several properties and our tenants do not pay the property tax bills. The property owners pay them.

[DawnM]

Well, hang on, though. We are property managers for several properties and our tenants do not pay the property tax bills. The property owners pay them.

 

It is all part of the rent.....it isn't like the owners only charge the mortgage on the property and that is it.  They include costs to the renters that will enable them to pay the property tax and make a profit.  I think that is what the OP was saying.

[DawnM]

Don't get me started on what people think about paying taxes.

 

If they get a return, they think it is some special bonus to them, while if they owe, they complain that the government is grubby, steels all their money, etc......they don't seem to understand that they have to pay the SAME AMOUNT, it just has to do with how much is taken out each check and how many deductions you claimed.

 

 

[Guest]

It is all part of the rent.....it isn't like the owners only charge the mortgage on the property and that is it. They include costs to the renters that will enable them to pay the property tax and make a profit. I think that is what the OP was saying.

Yeah, I can understand that. I do think there’s a difference, though, when you actually feast your eyes on the property tax bill, because there is a line item on some of ours that says “education†and that amount is pretty shocking. Our renters are sort of protected from actually knowing that because all they do is pay the rent we tell them to pay (...or not 😒).

 

I do know all about people whining about paying for services they don’t personally need, though. Homeschoolers are famous for it around here.

[TravelingChris]

How about people being just dumb in general about most economic matters.  I remember when I was driving around my 10 year old then and there was some discussion about free healthcare or free something or other.  And she piped up that it isn't really free- someone will be paying for it because the items cost money.  She was having a hard time understanding why grown-ups seemed to have an issue understanding that stuff costs- be it schools, free lunch, or what have you.

 

What I am completely flummoxed about is our school funding here.  Apparently almost all of our income tax goes to schools, then we have property taxes that go to schools, and I think we also have part of the sales tax go to schools.  I have never lived in a state like this nor in a state with as many brand new schools being built.  As my dh says, the same school he started going to 49 years ago is still in operation.   As were the schools I went to as a kid.  But over here, almost all of the schools have been rebuilt.  I think it may be that they were badly built because the oldest schools are actually the same.   Anyway, tomorrow we are voting and I am voting no on renewing property tax knowing full well that it will pass. I am not against all tax increase- I voted yes on a 1/2 cent sales tax increase to go towards our city roads.   I have seen that money being spent wisely.  But until I figure out why we keep spending gigantic amounts to build new schools (not in growing areas because I understand that nor building damaged by natural disaster), I am going to vote no on school taxes,

[SparklyUnicorn]

Yeah, I can understand that. I do think there’s a difference, though, when you actually feast your eyes on the property tax bill, because there is a line item on some of ours that says “education†and that amount is pretty shocking. Our renters are sort of protected from actually knowing that because all they do is pay the rent we tell them to pay (...or not 😒).

 

I do know all about people whining about paying for services they don’t personally need, though. Homeschoolers are famous for it around here.

 

I wouldn't assume they don't know.  I rented far more years than owned, and I was aware of stuff like that.  It's not fair to assume that people are completely unaware. 

[eternalsummer]

Yeah, I can understand that. I do think there’s a difference, though, when you actually feast your eyes on the property tax bill, because there is a line item on some of ours that says “education†and that amount is pretty shocking. Our renters are sort of protected from actually knowing that because all they do is pay the rent we tell them to pay (...or not 😒).

 

I do know all about people whining about paying for services they don’t personally need, though. Homeschoolers are famous for it around here.

 

 

Trust me, your renters may not know how much of their rent is caused by property taxes, or by insurance, but they definitely know how much the rent costs and generally know how much more it costs than a mortgage for a comparable home (in many markets, anyway). 

[eternalsummer]

I've lived in places that turned down property tax increases for schools (and sometimes approved them), and for the most part they were wealthy communities with schools that were newish, had lots of amenities - libraries and technology centers and gyms and a district pool - and paid their teachers quite well compared with neighboring districts.  The superintendent, later fired for corruption, was making a quarter million.   The schools just seemed (to me) to always have a new idea of how to spend a little more money and so there was always a measure up for vote to increase sales taxes or property taxes by just a little bit to fund this or that new thing.

 

I can understand people turning it down - their schools were doing pretty well, they looked new, they had amenities, teachers were well paid and easy to keep, etc.  Maybe people just didn't want to build a new gym for X elementary school this year or expand the parking lot at Y school or build an add-on media center for the second building of the high school so students didn't have to walk 200 feet from the existing one.  I dunno.

[Guest]

How about people being just dumb in general about most economic matters. I remember when I was driving around my 10 year old then and there was some discussion about free healthcare or free something or other. And she piped up that it isn't really free- someone will be paying for it because the items cost money. She was having a hard time understanding why grown-ups seemed to have an issue understanding that stuff costs- be it schools, free lunch, or what have you.

 

What I am completely flummoxed about is our school funding here. Apparently almost all of our income tax goes to schools, then we have property taxes that go to schools, and I think we also have part of the sales tax go to schools. I have never lived in a state like this nor in a state with as many brand new schools being built. As my dh says, the same school he started going to 49 years ago is still in operation. As were the schools I went to as a kid. But over here, almost all of the schools have been rebuilt. I think it may be that they were badly built because the oldest schools are actually the same. Anyway, tomorrow we are voting and I am voting no on renewing property tax knowing full well that it will pass. I am not against all tax increase- I voted yes on a 1/2 cent sales tax increase to go towards our city roads. I have seen that money being spent wisely. But until I figure out why we keep spending gigantic amounts to build new schools (not in growing areas because I understand that nor building damaged by natural disaster), I am going to vote no on school taxes,

Yes, that has happened in this area, too. They have built beautiful new schools that are underpopulated and have closed schools that could have been renovated. It looks extremely wasteful from my admitedly not-much-involved position.

[Bluegoat]

How about people being just dumb in general about most economic matters.  I remember when I was driving around my 10 year old then and there was some discussion about free healthcare or free something or other.  And she piped up that it isn't really free- someone will be paying for it because the items cost money.  She was having a hard time understanding why grown-ups seemed to have an issue understanding that stuff costs- be it schools, free lunch, or what have you.

 

What I am completely flummoxed about is our school funding here.  Apparently almost all of our income tax goes to schools, then we have property taxes that go to schools, and I think we also have part of the sales tax go to schools.  I have never lived in a state like this nor in a state with as many brand new schools being built.  As my dh says, the same school he started going to 49 years ago is still in operation.   As were the schools I went to as a kid.  But over here, almost all of the schools have been rebuilt.  I think it may be that they were badly built because the oldest schools are actually the same.   Anyway, tomorrow we are voting and I am voting no on renewing property tax knowing full well that it will pass. I am not against all tax increase- I voted yes on a 1/2 cent sales tax increase to go towards our city roads.   I have seen that money being spent wisely.  But until I figure out why we keep spending gigantic amounts to build new schools (not in growing areas because I understand that nor building damaged by natural disaster), I am going to vote no on school taxes,

 

There has been some weird stuff here with closing older schools and building new ones.  From what I've been able to figure out, it's got to do with a few things, some more reasonable than others: the revenue streams for capital projects aren't always the same as for repairing and maintaining older buildings - sometimes they have access to grants or other sources of money and they want to take advantage of them; in the past some of the schools haven't been maintained properly or there are serious problems like asbestos or mold that are difficult to remedy; the policy now is to have much larger schools as they feel they save money on operating costs; and they like shiny new schools.

 

What annoys me is that apart from serious health issues, what is good for students seems to be a minor consideration, at best.

[Carrie12345]

Yeah, I can understand that. I do think there’s a difference, though, when you actually feast your eyes on the property tax bill, because there is a line item on some of ours that says “education†and that amount is pretty shocking. Our renters are sort of protected from actually knowing that because all they do is pay the rent we tell them to pay (...or not 😒).

 

I do know all about people whining about paying for services they don’t personally need, though. Homeschoolers are famous for it around here.

 

My mortgage company pays my tax bills, and I can pay my mortgage without seeing those designated line items.  It doesn't change the fact that I'm the one footing those bills.

[Guest]

I guess that's a dumb question.

 

A nearby school district has an enormous budget deficit. I'm obviously not overly fond of the current education system (or my kids would be in it), including the funding system, so I don't feel like I'll ever be one of it's biggest cheerleaders, however...

 

Internet comments indicate that people actually believe that renters "don't pay property tax" , including school taxes. How does that jive in their heads? Landlords just cut a personal check because they're generous? If that's the case, I need to sell my house and rent from someone!

 

Also, "Why should I pay for schools when I'm not in them and don't have kids in them?" Where do these people think their future services are going to come from? Do they really not care if they have capable doctors, reliable utilities, literate customer service representatives, or contractors who understand codes? What's in it for you??? How about first world status.

 

People make me sad.

Never read the comments! Facebook comments and comments on newspaper articles are written by the lowest of the low who have no other way to make their “thoughts†heard. I’m firmly convinced that they do not represent the general public.

[Carrie12345]

Never read the comments! Facebook comments and comments on newspaper articles are written by the lowest of the low who have no other way to make their “thoughts†heard. I’m firmly convinced that they do not represent the general public.

 

I know, it makes me stupid, too, lol.  I tend to avoid them with most things, but I try to power through on local matters.  These really are the people I'm living with.  If I always stay in my bubble, I don't think I can be an effective community member.  (Not that my hopes are all that high...)

[JFSinIL]

 

So glad we don't Have school tax on property here in Australia

 

 

Now curious - where does the money come from to pay for the buildings, teachers, insurance, etc?

Ok - Googles it. So where does the local state or territory get the money?

Taxes? So not a property tax, but still you pay via taxes some other way. Got it.

Haven't had my caffeine this morning.

Edited December 12, 2017 by JFSinIL

[Rosie_0801]

We are property managers for several properties 

 

What is involved, if you don't mind my asking? I've been reading stories about people having or not having experience in managing multi dwelling properties. The authors assume I know what that means and what the difference is between managing single and multi dwelling, and I don't.

[scholastica]

One of my favorites is that someone doesn’t have kids in the schools, so they shouldn’t have to pay for them. What? What about the word Public in Public School do you not understand? Schools in which only those who use them pay for them are Private Schools! We have agreed as a society that there should be a basic (apparently very basic) level of education available to all and we all have to pay for it. Technically, we pay for school three times over. We pay our local school taxes, our parish has school which receives significant funding from the weekly collection to which we contribute and we pay to educate our own children at home. That’s my choice. I don’t begrudge the taxes or the tithe just because I opt out of the other options. An educated populace is a benefit to everyone. We can talk about the quality of that education and where the money goes, but we need an educated populace to survive as a country.

Edited December 12, 2017 by scholastica

[Guest]

What is involved, if you don't mind my asking? I've been reading stories about people having or not having experience in managing multi dwelling properties. The authors assume I know what that means and what the difference is between managing single and multi dwelling, and I don't.

A single dwelling is one building with a rental unit in it. A multi is something like an apartment complex or a single building that has individual units within it.

 

Six of the properties we manage are multi-units. So, at one location, thhere is a shop/storefront on the ground floor, with an apartment above it and another apartment above that. So, the addresses look like “1234 Normal Avenue, Unit A; 1234 Normal Avenue, Unit B; Joe Shmoe’s Trinket Shop, 1234 Normal Avenue.†The tenants in each unit have nothing whatsoever to do with one another. They live in the same building, but their units are rented separately, leased seperately, etc.

 

As to what property management entails, we are the Landlords, though the owner is someone else. (In a few cases, we are both owner and LL, but we manage more than we own.) We have a contract with the owner to manage the property and we take a commission on the rent. Usually this amount is 10% of the rent. We find the renters, screen them, sign Leases with them, nag them for rent when they don’t pay, address problems that happen at the rental, whether mechanical (toilet is broken) or interpersonal (roommates got into a brawl). We accept the rent payments and make deposits to the owner’s accounts, less commission and any expenses incurred. At the end of the year, I produce an annual statement for the owner; monthly I also issue a statement. We pay the physical bills for property taxes, rental license, etc., and deduct it from the owner’s deposit. Last year, there was a devastating flood at the site of our multi-units, which represented seven of the properties we manage. The owner lives in another country, so in this case, we managed (DH did) all the rebuild and clean up, but the owner wired money for repairs and paid for DH’s work at the properties.

 

Does that answer your questions?

 

PS: one might wonder if it is worth it. My answer is: sometimes. The dream tenants are worth it. They pay their rent, only contact us when there is a problem, and don’t have a lot of personal problems. The nightmare tenants are often not worth it. We can’t just quit a contact, though, because of the nightmare tenants who make it hard. Sometimes I think this business is for the birds; other times I think it is a nice income stream.

[Mimm]

I think money for schools would be a lot easier to stomach if they weren't so wasteful and incompetent.

 

Or maybe not. Maybe we'd always find a reason to complain about paying for something. :)

 

[Bambam]

We've had people here in our state who believe since they plan to start homeschooling their children that they will not have to pay their ISD taxes. Apparently they believe the school taxes are tuition for your children to attend public school. I could not believe it, but I've seen several post online at different times asking the same question. And I wondered what other nonsense they might believe. 

[scholastica]

I also think that people are feeling incredibly squeezed financially these days, and that colors how we see the world and it's workings. I read The Broken Ladder this past summer and it was fascinating. It was about the psychology of income inequality. I knew some of it already, but there was a lot in there that was instructive. I think people see that their dollars aren't covering their costs anymore and are looking at where those dollars are going. When they aren't getting the direct benefit, it feels wrong to them to have to pay it. I guess it's tied to scarcity.

[SKL]

School financial management seems to be a problem in most places in the US.  When I hear how much is spent on the average student, and then how many kids in high school can barely read, ....  Someone with too much time on his/her hands needs to get into the nitty gritty and find out what's happening.

[goldberry]

Never read the comments! Facebook comments and comments on newspaper articles are written by the lowest of the low who have no other way to make their “thoughts†heard. I’m firmly convinced that they do not represent the general public.

 

I have to believe that or I would have to move into a cave and never come out.

[goldberry]

When we moved to this area 13 years ago, the big city closest to us was on a huge lower-taxes push.  Fast forward, the streets are literally falling apart and the city has been sued multiple times because of a stormwater issue that they don't have money to fix.  In the last election, residents finally approved multiple tax increases to fix some of this stuff. 

 

It's a cycle.  People don't make the connection until it starts affecting them directly.  Then it costs even more to fix than if they had just maintained it the whole time.  Once the streets are better and the lawsuits stop, people will complain about the taxes again.

[MarkT]

IMHO the world can not exist without some taxes but we/they should be always looking for more efficient ways to utilize our tax money - somehow they think it belongs to them once extracted!

[SparklyUnicorn]

When we moved to this area 13 years ago, the big city closest to us was on a huge lower-taxes push.  Fast forward, the streets are literally falling apart and the city has been sued multiple times because of a stormwater issue that they don't have money to fix.  In the last election, residents finally approved multiple tax increases to fix some of this stuff. 

 

It's a cycle.  People don't make the connection until it starts affecting them directly.  Then it costs even more to fix than if they had just maintained it the whole time.  Once the streets are better and the lawsuits stop, people will complain about the taxes again.

 

Sadly we pay some of the highest taxes in the country and have roads that are literally falling apart. 

 

So I do understand why ppl get mad.  Where is the damn money going?!

[SKL]

When I was a kid, I went to a really old parochial school that had minimal resources (for a US school), but turned out educated kids.  Once I was selected for a one-day magnet program at a public school.  I was amazed at how wonderful the public school was. So beautiful, so many resources, it honestly blew me away - especially since that public school system was famously awful as far as turning out kids with even basic skills.  Since then I have observed similar in other cities.  Clearly the learning does not follow the money, but when will this change?

[frogger]

I disagree that renters pay a tax in the vast majority of cases. Prices for rentals are set by supply and demand not taxes. If a unit sits empty the landlord still pays the tax. If the market is hopping then rents are skyrocketing regardless of if there is a tax or not. Even if the tax is part of the supply costs and the landlord uses money she recieved from a tenent ultimately it will come out of their profit or add to their loss if they are losing money.

 

Can large amounts of taxes affect new supply? Absolutely. If the market were sitting at equilibrium and landlords were making a very modest or less profit then people would not be interested in building even more housing and further driving down rents as they wouldn't make any money by doing so but for the most part there is either an oversupply of housing or more typically an undersupply which means new housing will be built regardless of the amount of taxes typically seen in America and the taxes will come out of the difference between the cost of supply and what the renter is willing to pay in other words the landlords profits.

 

 

 

That being said, I always have to wonder at all the comments saying only people who use schools should have to pay for them. That would kind of defeat the purpose of government handling schools at all wouldn't it? And only kids whose parents could afford school would get it. Next, people will want only food stamp recipients to pay taxes for food stamps. Makes perfect sense.

[creekland]

Exactly.  There are big issues in our tax spending, and there are big issues in our schools, overall.  But there's zero chance of fixing them if we focus on the ridiculous assumption that people aren't paying taxes, or that we shouldn't be paying taxes.

 

And then it freaks me out to realize most of these people probably had public educations...

 

FWIW, people like this are rarely our better students.  Public schools get a range of ability.  Most who have a tough time comprehending some of the basics of life are on the lower end of the range.  Teachers can (and do) try to fix this, but it takes mental ability to comprehend abstract thoughts.  

 

Another FWIW, school taxes on rental properties are higher than they are on owner occupied properties.  Our tenants pay MORE than we do to cover their share of the taxes (based on property value percentage).  If they were to buy our house, they'd have a bit of a savings coming to them.

[shawthorne44]

There are other examples of people not understanding how the world/taxes work.  

 

For example, the people that have extra deductions taken from their paychecks, then act like the tax refund was a gift from the government.   Unless you are like my SIL who got more back than she put in.  

[creekland]

I disagree that renters pay a tax in the vast majority of cases. Prices for rentals are set by supply and demand not taxes. If a unit sits empty the landlord still pays the tax. If the market is hopping then rents are skyrocketing regardless of if there is a tax or not. Even if the tax is part of the supply costs and the landlord uses money she recieved from a tenent ultimately it will come out of their profit or add to their loss if they are losing money.

 

Can large amounts of taxes affect new supply? Absolutely. If the market were sitting at equilibrium and landlords were making a very modest or less profit then people would not be interested in building even more housing and further driving down rents as they wouldn't make any money by doing so but for the most part there is either an oversupply of housing or more typically an undersupply which means new housing will be built regardless of the amount of taxes typically seen in America and the taxes will come out of the difference between the cost of supply and what the renter is willing to pay in other words the landlords profits.

 

 

 

That being said, I always have to wonder at all the comments saying only people who use schools should have to pay for them. That would kind of defeat the purpose of government handling schools at all wouldn't it? And only kids whose parents could afford school would get it. Next, people will want only food stamp recipients to pay taxes for food stamps. Makes perfect sense.

 

The rent we charge our tenants goes up when property taxes go up.  That's pretty common for our area.  I can see how in other areas it might differ, but I think the norm is for landlords to include all expenses (including projected repairs) into the rent, then add a profit margin.

 

With your last paragraph... many in our country already expect that with medical/health issues, so why not with schools and food stamps?  

 

In every case I know about, those who complain at how money is being spent locally (taxes for schools or roads or whatever) could go to meetings and suggest how things could be better, but few actually do.  Our school invited the public to look at it's budget and make suggestions - given all the things that money was spent on.  The public who cared was unable to make the current budget work.  Everyone wants cuts, but when actually looking at it, what gets cut?

[frogger]

School financial management seems to be a problem in most places in the US. When I hear how much is spent on the average student, and then how many kids in high school can barely read, .... Someone with too much time on his/her hands needs to get into the nitty gritty and find out what's happening.

 

Honestly, when I look at what is expected of schools I'm somewhat astonished at what we expect from them now. They are more like parents then schools. They have to take even the most disabled child and I'm not arguing they shouldn't but rather that it's expensive. Schools are supposed to be reporting child abuse that happens at home, teaching kids that are born addicted to herion. There is this common core stuff and then there is brush your teeth and wash your hands. Oh and today is another lice inspection so we will be interrupting class for that. Meanwhile my local school district has 100 languages spoken in it. I just looked it up.

 

 

I really don't know how I personally could make that efficient, well run, and have high standards.

[frogger]

The rent we charge our tenants goes up when property taxes go up. That's pretty common for our area. I can see how in other areas it might differ, but I think the norm is for landlords to include all expenses (including projected repairs) into the rent, then add a profit margin.

 

With your last paragraph... many in our country already expect that with medical/health issues, so why not with schools and food stamps?

 

In every case I know about, those who complain at how money is being spent locally (taxes for schools or roads or whatever) could go to meetings and suggest how things could be better, but few actually do. Our school invited the public to look at it's budget and make suggestions - given all the things that money was spent on. The public who cared was unable to make the current budget work. Everyone wants cuts, but when actually looking at it, what gets cut?

If everyone can just up their price you must be sitting right at equilibrium where no one has a house sitting empty. Or the landlord with an empty house would want to give a better deal because you lose money when your house is just sitting there empty. I don't think that is very common. Markets are usually moving and people usually don't get to just charge whatever they personally want to charge for something.

 

 

I do hope you understand that there were a couple sarcastic comments in that last paragraph. I wasn't advocating it. I was saying it would be ludicrous to have a food stamp program paid for only by people who used food stamps. I'm pretty sure you got that but....

[SKL]

And there are rental situations that are under the table (i.e. not taxed as a rental property) or subsidized.  I don't know the % of renters who are subsidized, but the relative income of renters tends to be on the low side and I would not be surprised if more than half of the families in rent qualify for subsidies.  Subsidized housing gets special tax deals that may or may not include property tax.

[SKL]

Honestly, when I look at what is expected of schools I'm somewhat astonished at what we expect from them now. They are more like parents then schools. They have to take even the most disabled child and I'm not arguing they shouldn't but rather that it's expensive. Schools are supposed to be reporting child abuse that happens at home, teaching kids that are born addicted to herion. There is this common core stuff and then there is brush your teeth and wash your hands. Oh and today is another lice inspection so we will be interrupting class for that. Meanwhile my local school district has 100 languages spoken in it. I just looked it up.

 

 

I really don't know how I personally could make that efficient, well run, and have high standards.

 

I know all that, but 90% of kids ought to be able to learn to read just by sitting in the same room as a book for 13 years.  13 years!  Honestly I would expect kids who never received schooling at all to perform better (as a group) than a large % of public school children (in some districts) perform.

Edited December 12, 2017 by SKL

[Bluegoat]

When I was a kid, I went to a really old parochial school that had minimal resources (for a US school), but turned out educated kids.  Once I was selected for a one-day magnet program at a public school.  I was amazed at how wonderful the public school was. So beautiful, so many resources, it honestly blew me away - especially since that public school system was famously awful as far as turning out kids with even basic skills.  Since then I have observed similar in other cities.  Clearly the learning does not follow the money, but when will this change?

 

There is a similar lack of correlation here.  There are some very shiny schools, with lots of tech, lots of course offerings, and so on.  But generally their students don't seem to be better than other schools.  And on the other hand there are some really tiny isolated schools, much like a one or two-room school, that turn out students who are regularly above average and do well going on to post-secondary ed.  They are typically rural kids too, not the demographics that always do better.

 

The difference really doesn't seem to be all the extra resources.

[Bluegoat]

The rent we charge our tenants goes up when property taxes go up.  That's pretty common for our area.  I can see how in other areas it might differ, but I think the norm is for landlords to include all expenses (including projected repairs) into the rent, then add a profit margin.

 

With your last paragraph... many in our country already expect that with medical/health issues, so why not with schools and food stamps?  

 

In every case I know about, those who complain at how money is being spent locally (taxes for schools or roads or whatever) could go to meetings and suggest how things could be better, but few actually do.  Our school invited the public to look at it's budget and make suggestions - given all the things that money was spent on.  The public who cared was unable to make the current budget work.  Everyone wants cuts, but when actually looking at it, what gets cut?

 

A few years our city hall created an online survey where people could allocate the city budget themselves.  As you allocated, the tank of money in the graph went down.  For each category like transit or public rec, there was a description of what was covered at current levels of funding, and what could be done as you increased or decreased funding to different levels.

 

I think it was very eye opening to people who felt that there was a lot of money that could easily be cut.  Even salaries which people tend to complain about didn't have much wiggle room before you felt like you were taking advantage of people.

[vonfirmath]

Yeah, I can understand that. I do think there’s a difference, though, when you actually feast your eyes on the property tax bill, because there is a line item on some of ours that says “education†and that amount is pretty shocking. Our renters are sort of protected from actually knowing that because all they do is pay the rent we tell them to pay (...or not 😒).

 

I do know all about people whining about paying for services they don’t personally need, though. Homeschoolers are famous for it around here.

 

..>We own and the property tax is part of our mortgage payment so I'm not sure I've actually seen a property tax bill either.

[Guest]

I disagree that renters pay a tax in the vast majority of cases. Prices for rentals are set by supply and demand not taxes. If a unit sits empty the landlord still pays the tax. If the market is hopping then rents are skyrocketing regardless of if there is a tax or not. Even if the tax is part of the supply costs and the landlord uses money she recieved from a tenent ultimately it will come out of their profit or add to their loss if they are losing money.

 

Can large amounts of taxes affect new supply? Absolutely. If the market were sitting at equilibrium and landlords were making a very modest or less profit then people would not be interested in building even more housing and further driving down rents as they wouldn't make any money by doing so but for the most part there is either an oversupply of housing or more typically an undersupply which means new housing will be built regardless of the amount of taxes typically seen in America and the taxes will come out of the difference between the cost of supply and what the renter is willing to pay in other words the landlords profits.

 

 

 

That being said, I always have to wonder at all the comments saying only people who use schools should have to pay for them. That would kind of defeat the purpose of government handling schools at all wouldn't it? And only kids whose parents could afford school would get it. Next, people will want only food stamp recipients to pay taxes for food stamps. Makes perfect sense.

This is how I was thinking about it. We do not have a mortgage on the rentals we own. We do pay property tax bills and that does of course affect the income generated over cost, but our rent amount is set by the comparable market. If the taxes increase, we don’t necessarily directly increase the rent; much of it would depend on the comps in the area. We certainly *may* increase rent if the property taxes climb precipitously, but it’s going to have more to do with what other comparables in the area do.

[shawthorne44]

Although when you think of it, the property taxes collected per child attending school will go down when you add apartment complexes.  

[Annie G]

..>We own and the property tax is part of our mortgage payment so I'm not sure I've actually seen a property tax bill either.

 

That's too bad that so many people...both owners and tenants...don't know what the property tax bill includes.  Seeing what you're paying for might be eye opening.  Aren't you curious about the bill breakdown? Wait- I forget everyone doesn't live in places with crazy property taxes like we have here in Illinois. 

 

Our property tax bill includes mosquito abatement (which is a joke), library tax, park district tax, community college tax, school tax, city tax, country tax, and township tax. The $118 I pay for the library has certainly encouraged me to USE the library. The $2000 school tax is by far the biggest chunk of our bill. The $12 for mosquito abatement is nonsense but it's a relatively cheap nonsense. 

 

My tax bill is about 4% of my home's fair market value (which is very modest). That's a hefty sum so I kind of want to know where my money is going.   

[mom2scouts]

Well, one of our *horrible* failing local school districts, which just begged for a school levy, announced that they are opening a health care facility open only to employees of the district and their families. Oh, and school employees in my area have incomes higher than the median for our area, so it's not like they're trying to help poor, underpaid teachers. The schools can't do the job they're supposed to be doing, beg for more money, and spend it on perks for employees? I'm starting to think the people who ask why they have to pay for schools may have a valid point.

[vonfirmath]

That's too bad that so many people...both owners and tenants...don't know what the property tax bill includes.  Seeing what you're paying for might be eye opening.  Aren't you curious about the bill breakdown? Wait- I forget everyone doesn't live in places with crazy property taxes like we have here in Illinois. 

 

Our property tax bill includes mosquito abatement (which is a joke), library tax, park district tax, community college tax, school tax, city tax, country tax, and township tax. The $118 I pay for the library has certainly encouraged me to USE the library. The $2000 school tax is by far the biggest chunk of our bill. The $12 for mosquito abatement is nonsense but it's a relatively cheap nonsense. 

 

My tax bill is about 4% of my home's fair market value (which is very modest). That's a hefty sum so I kind of want to know where my money is going.   

 

I live in Texas. I know the amount of the bill that is our mortgage and that the property taxes+insurance pretty much equals our mortgage.  But I'm pretty sure the lions share of the property tax is schools and the last time they had a bond here they convinced me it was fiscally sound. I probably could go in and nitpick the details of where the money is spent in our district. But overall I think they are doing a pretty good job.  And yes we did recently rebuild one school -- the oldest elementary school in the district. It could not economically be renovated to meet current guidelines for what a elementary school in the state must be. It made more sense to renovate it for use by a special high school-age program (Career based) and build a new school for the elementary students.  I have a long history of voting no on school bonds in various areas but this one got a yes from me.