Good resources on gender flexible and asexual?

[Dmmetler]

DD has a classmate in her study group who identifies as gender flexible in gender and asexual in orientation. (and introduced fhemself that way in their psychology class small group.) DD has a lot of questions, but doesn't want to offend them by asking beyond "what pronouns do you want me to use?". Does anyone know of any good resources which would help her with these questions? DD is finding a lot in common as far as other interests with them, and thinks a friendship is possible, and doesn't want to mess things up in ignorance.

[KarenNC]

My daughter suggests https://abcs-lgbt.com/, but I haven't read it personally. This upcoming free online workshop looks promising   https://www.genderspectrum.org/blog/free-online-gender-workshop-for-parents-families-friends/ . The page also looks to have other resources. You could also google to see if there's a local support group for LGBT+ youth, as they will likely have resource suggestions.

Edited September 9, 2017 by KarenNC

[kiwik]

I can't see why you would need to declare your sexuality when you introduce yourself though. Sounds a bit precious to me.

[Amy in NH]

Asking what pronouns they prefer would not be offensive.

[Tanaqui]

Young people often do this sort of thing. If it's not "I'm genderqueer and asexual" it's "I'm a pro-life, born-again, Bible-believing Christian" or "And I don't eat meat or sugar" or "And I am defying my parents by running away from the circus".
 

They're trying on identities*, and learning when it's necessary or useful to disclose certain types of information.

 

You may think it's "a bit precious", but don't you remember being somewhere under the age of 25 or so?

 

* Or, rather, they're trying to see how their identity forms a coherent whole. I haven't said the words "I'm autistic" nearly as much after the age of 30 as I did prior to it, but it's still an enormous part of me.

Edited September 9, 2017 by Tanaqui

[justasque]

I can't see why you would need to declare your sexuality when you introduce yourself though. Sounds a bit precious to me.

 

Self-defense, really.

It's a way of saying, "This is a thing about me that you might have strong opinions about, so I want to get it out there right at the beginning, so that there are no awkward misunderstandings (or worse) down the line, when we've both got more invested in the friendship."

And given that we had an entire thread here with the WTM crowd on what needs to be disclosed at the beginning of a relationship, with quite a few posters feeling they needed to know this kind of thing up front, I can see how someone might want to put it out there.  Many WTMers have found that budding friendships can be abruptly dropped when the potential friend finds that the WTMer goes to the "wrong" church, or is of the "wrong" religion, or even does not practice a religion at all.  I can see that this might be a similar experience.  

And of course, as adults, we are usually not quite as blunt as this about such things, but that's likely because 1) we have developed a more nuanced ability to communicate with new peers, and have a more finely tuned sense of what should be shared and when, and also 2) insofar as the romantic arena is concerned, many of us have long been partnered and are not in that marketplace, unlike young teens who are just starting to learn how to navigate it.

[quark]

Apart from Gender Spectrum, I also like It's Pronounced Metrosexual.

 

Please let her know that she should not worry too much about messing up as long as her intentions are clear. She could always explain to her friend that this is new to her and she will need a little time to understand but that she will keep trying (if she slips on the pronoun or anything else). As long as she comes across as positive, respectful, and supportive, and that should also be mutual by the way, she should be fine!

 

I usually preface statements/ questions with "please know that I don't mean to offend...could you explain what this means?" or "please help me understand how this works/ feels/ needs to be addressed,..." etc.

 

I hope she has a great friendship with this person!

 

ETA: I've found that the current younger generation is very open (usually) about their preferences and identity. Personally, I am very happy to support them in their need to say who they are at the outset. Sometimes, they bring up sexuality along with gender identity because of the many different layers within LGBTQ terminology.

Edited September 9, 2017 by quark

[bibiche]

http://www.asexualawarenessweek.com/101.html

 

I think this is the site our asexual relative sent us to when she "came out."  She made a point of telling us that she didn't want to discuss it and didn't want questions. I think that is reasonable, actually - I wouldn't want to have to answer all sorts of questions about my sexuality/identity, would you? So I think it is good that your daughter wants to do her own research rather than pester her classmate with questions. I don't know too many people who want to be the go-to "token" person.

[kiwik]

Young people often do this sort of thing. If it's not "I'm genderqueer and asexual" it's "I'm a pro-life, born-again, Bible-believing Christian" or "And I don't eat meat or sugar" or "And I am defying my parents by running away from the circus".

 

They're trying on identities*, and learning when it's necessary or useful to disclose certain types of information.

 

You may think it's "a bit precious", but don't you remember being somewhere under the age of 25 or so?

 

* Or, rather, they're trying to see how their identity forms a coherent whole. I haven't said the words "I'm autistic" nearly as much after the age of 30 as I did prior to it, but it's still an enormous part of me.

Mm I think maybe it is a generational thing. I am nearly 50 and grew up in small town NZ. You didn't generally tell people personal stuff unless they had a need to know.

It also wouldn't have been that safe and I started work at 15 usually with people a lot more conservative than I was.

 

The pronoun question seemed fair. I was also wondering whether the psychology class was focused on gender identity in which case it would make sense. I just can't imagine introducing myself with my sexual details, addiction status or political religious details unless it was at a political debate or something and I really don't want to know these things when i first meet someone.

Edited September 10, 2017 by kiwik

[73349]

http://genderproject.org/

[Janeway]

I can't see why you would need to declare your sexuality when you introduce yourself though. Sounds a bit precious to me.

I agree.

[Terabith]

Dmmetler's daughter is profoundly gifted and taking courses at a local college.

[Tanaqui]

I also am assuming this is somebody perhaps 7 - 10 years older than her daughter. Which makes it even more important, for a 12 year old, not to seem ignorant and immature!

 

Though if it was a 12 year old saying that, or a 13 - 16 year old, that would also make sense. Kids that age, even more than those in college, are working out who they are and how much of that needs to be shared (and with whom!) A 12 year old who isn't interested yet, but feels that all his or her peers are really interested, might think that means they're never going to be interested.

Edited September 10, 2017 by Tanaqui

[Tanaqui]

(Also, asexuality is... complicated. Just as complicated as non-asexuality! Some people who identify as asexual are interested in sex occasionally, just not very often or in many circumstances. Or they're okay with self-stimulation, but they don't want to have sex with other people. Or they're interested in romance, but not the sex part. Or they may even want romance and kissing and touching, but not want to go further. And some of them, even if they're not interested in sex, are willing to have sex with people they care about, even if it doesn't really do anything for them.)

[Dmmetler]

DD is 12 and, as mentioned above, is a concurrent college student. This is her college general psych class, and the classmate appears to be a typical college age.

 

I think that's one reason why DD doesn't want to ask questions-she's a little afraid this is something everyone else already has had experience with and she doesn't want to look like a dumb kid. And she knows what it's like to be an outlier and to get a LOT of questions and be under the microscope, so it's the last thing she wants to do to someone else.

[Tanaqui]

she's a little afraid this is something everyone else already has had experience with and she doesn't want to look like a dumb kid.

 

You can tell her that probably half the class feels the exact same way, down to the part about not wanting to look like a "dumb kid". (The other half is suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect.)

 

And she knows what it's like to be an outlier and to get a LOT of questions and be under the microscope, so it's the last thing she wants to do to someone else.

 

Some of us call that being the "Self Narrating Zoo Exhibit" :)

 

[Tanaqui]

Well, 12 is a fine time to start talking about things like asexuality anyway, just as part of general sex education. Don't want them to be blindsided, after all!

[Twolittleboys]

Honestly, if that's the case, I am not sure I would be encouraging a friendship between a 12yr old and a 19 yr old....REGARDLESS of sexuality.  There are 7.5 yrs between DH and I......and I very nearly didn't go on a second date with him.  I was 22 when I met him.  I am not saying that friendships with a 7yr age difference can't work.  I am saying that at 12 the number of years of age difference means a lot more than it does when people are older.  That has NOTHING to do with being gifted and I am VERY sure that being gifted makes all of that difficult.  But being gifted doesn't mean that physical, sexual, social and emotional maturity are all in alignment.  Basically, when a kid is just 12, I don't think a 19yr old is peer, regardless of intelligence. 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't really agree with this. I mean the 12 year old is in that class and of course she would like to have some friends. Probably all the other students are older so she doesn't have much choice (aside of the fact that she may well be more mature than an average 12 year old). I would feel different if it was a question of dating or having a boyfried etc. as I think the age difference would make more difference there. But for a "regular" friendship?

 

Also, I remember when I was in my late teens/early twenties. I went on several vacations on which I had a lot of contact with younger kids (say in the 9 to 12 year old range) and we got along great. Maybe it isn't the classic friendship but it is a friendship and there really is nothing weird about it. (Not to me at least).

[Dmmetler]

She's in a small group for a project with this person. Regardless of whether they become friends in more than the "let's talk about the newest Pokemon I caught" in a few minutes before class, they have to work together. Since this is important enough to this person to bring up, it seems reasonable for her to want to make sure she doesn't misstep.

 

So far, she hasn't had much trouble with her campus casual friendships, so I don't think she needs instructions in how to interact with people. But when someone announces "I'm Vegan" as one of the most important things about themselves that they feel people need to know, I think it's reasonable to look up whether the menu at the restaurant has vegan options before suggesting it-and that requires knowing a bit about what vegans do and do not eat.

 

The same applies here. People are people, obviously, but knowing a bit about what someone might mean when they say they're asexual seems like a similar level of background knowledge to realizing that, no, a cheese pizza won't be a good alternative for a vegan.

Edited September 10, 2017 by dmmetler

[Ananda]

I can't help you with the gender flexible part.  I have no idea.  

 

But as someone who is (probably?) asexual, I don't think it is complicated.  It is just the absence of sexual attraction.  I like people for many reasons, usually because of their personalities.  I find people beautiful, like I find art beautiful.  I just don't want to have sexy times with them.  Really that's all their is to it.  The only part that is a little tricky is that I don't know where everyone else is coming from.  Why would celibacy be hard?  How do people get carried away in the moment?  Does finding a stranger you meet in person "attractive" mean you literally want to have sex with them?  I chose my sexuality (heterosexual since I am a female married to a male), which seems to be an uncommon experience.  

 

If your daughter doesn't want a sexual or romantic relationship with this new friend, I don't see how it would make any difference in their friendship.  Honestly, it would probably be refreshing.  A twelve year old isn't going to be into the college dating / hook-up thing, so they can focus on their common interests.  Sounds good to me.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I agree that the only thing that would or should apply to your daughter is what pronouns to use and Sadie addressed that.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[katilac]

Elizabeth Bennet and Charlotte Lucas, seven years apart, are best friends in Pride and Prejudice. Elizabeth is only 20 when the book begins and they've been close for a long time, I daresay they were at least 'friends' when E was 12. 

 

Why, yes, I do take life advice from novels. Only good ones, though.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

Elizabeth Bennet and Charlotte Lucas, seven years apart, are best friends in Pride and Prejudice. Elizabeth is only 20 when the book begins and they've been close for a long time, I daresay they were at least 'friends' when E was 12.

 

Why, yes, I do take life advice from novels. Only good ones, though.

I doubt that they discussed their sexuality with each other esp when E was 12.

 

Edited because I can't type.

Edited September 11, 2017 by Jean in Newcastle

[lmrich]

I applaud your dd's open attitude and acceptance. I am sure the classmate can see your dd's true spirit and will not be offended if she misspeaks a prounoun here or there.  In the meantime, keep doing what you are doing to raise an emphatic and caring person, as well as, a brilliant one.

[katilac]

I'm not sure Charlotte is a good role model. She settled big time.

 

And yeah, agreeing with Jean. Tbh I'd be having a BIG discussion with dd were she to be befriending someone 6 years younger right now, about maintaining and respecting developmentally appropriate boundaries around sexual and gender identities with that child. That doesn't mean not being out.

 

Being respectful of others doesn't mean being immersed in their identities. 

 

No, no, Elizabeth is the role model. One of literature's great characters in spite of being best friends with someone 7 years older than her, who has dubious taste in men. Whether it made sense for her to settle is a post for another time. 

 

As far as the older person in question here, they revealed these facts in college, typically an age-appropriate setting, and the OP does not seem bothered by that. We don't have any reason to think this person would have inappropriate private conversations with the OP's dd in the future. Anyone concerned with exposure to other people's personal experiences with sex, drugs, and violence should think twice before sending their younger student to college. 

 

OP, I think the suggested resources should be fine. There's nothing she 'needs' to know, and not many ways I can think of to accidentally misstep in this scenario. Assuming your dd isn't going to be trying to hook her up, lol. 

Edited September 11, 2017 by katilac

[Tanaqui]

So far as 'gender flexible' goes (which makes zero sense, sorry, but let's be polite because it costs nothing )

 

So maybe you could've been a little more polite by not including the parenthetical.

 

[Pen]

Unless it is relevant to the class subject matter, I'd suggest that your dd Not try to learn about gender flexible and asexual issues and rather focus on the class subject matter and  topics  and interests that she and the gender flexible classmate might have in common.  

 

I'd take it as an important factoid that they shared in intro, but no more reason for your dd to immerse herself in learning about that than if they had shared any number of other things about themselves.  

 

I know someone who is gender flexible (and prefers they/them so I used it here too), and my experience is that the best support this person can be offered to is to treat them the same way as I treat others, which is not to delve into or start researching their gender identities or sexual preferences.  Instead would be to search for common interests. Such as in the person whom I know's case, we both are interested in nature and the environment, so we'd converse about that. Or we'd converse about what is happening where we are, which if in school like your dd would be the class we have in common.

 

 

I think it is fine for your dd to ask what pronouns they'd prefer.  Possibly, if, your dd really is truly interested in the subject--like if she is thinking to become a psychologist someday and thinks this would be helpful info, to say, I noticed that you mentioned _____ when you introduced yourself. Is that something you want to tell me more about?  eta But, similar to if they'd shared that they had grown up in Peru, or have a favorite hobby of collecting rare coins, or is the great-great-great-great- great-grand-kid of someone famous,  it is interesting self-disclosure, but does not need to be pursued by the listener.

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2017 by Pen

[Pen]

She's in a small group for a project with this person. Regardless of whether they become friends in more than the "let's talk about the newest Pokemon I caught" in a few minutes before class, they have to work together. Since this is important enough to this person to bring up, it seems reasonable for her to want to make sure she doesn't misstep.

 

So far, she hasn't had much trouble with her campus casual friendships, so I don't think she needs instructions in how to interact with people. But when someone announces "I'm Vegan" as one of the most important things about themselves that they feel people need to know, I think it's reasonable to look up whether the menu at the restaurant has vegan options before suggesting it-and that requires knowing a bit about what vegans do and do not eat.

 

The same applies here. People are people, obviously, but knowing a bit about what someone might mean when they say they're asexual seems like a similar level of background knowledge to realizing that, no, a cheese pizza won't be a good alternative for a vegan.

 

 

I don't see, beyond maybe the choice of pronouns, anything that would be likely to come up analogous to choosing a vegan friendly restaurant though.  

 

I think just give your dd reassurance that she can work on their project and that nothing about what this person disclosed should affect that.  

[justasque]

Unless it is relevant to the class subject matter, I'd suggest that your dd Not try to learn about gender flexible and asexual issues and rather focus on the class subject matter and  topics  and interests that she and the gender flexible classmate might have in common.  

 

I'd take it as an important factoid that they shared in intro, but no more reason for your dd to immerse herself in learning about that than if they had shared any number of other things about themselves.  

 

I know someone who is gender flexible (and prefers they/them so I used it here too), and my experience is that the best support this person can be offered to is to treat them the same way as I treat others, which is not to delve into or start researching their gender identities or sexual preferences.  Instead would be to search for common interests. Such as in the person whom I know's case, we both are interested in nature and the environment, so we'd converse about that. Or we'd converse about what is happening where we are, which if in school like your dd would be the class we have in common.

 

 

I think it is fine for your dd to ask what pronouns they'd prefer.  Possibly, if, your dd really is truly interested in the subject--like if she is thinking to become a psychologist someday and thinks this would be helpful info, to say, I noticed that you mentioned _____ when you introduced yourself. Is that something you want to tell me more about?  eta But, similar to if they'd shared that they had grown up in Peru, or have a favorite hobby of collecting rare coins, or is the great-great-great-great- great-grand-kid of someone famous,  it is interesting self-disclosure, but does not need to be pursued by the listener.

 

The profoundly gifted kids I know would have, upon meeting those people, done a bit of research on Peru (possibly moving on to ancient Peruvians or Peruvian cuisine), on coin collecting in general and/or rare coins in particular, and on the someone famous (and perhaps more about the thing they are famous for).  Not a sustained research project (usually), but a bit of Google + Wikipedia at minimum, just out of curiosity.  PG kids (and adults) are the kind of people who watch TV with their electronics at hand, should the desire arise to fact check, to read a quick bio of an actor or someone in the news, to look up more about a bit of history that is mentioned, or to answer any scientific questions that may arise.  Not because they need to, but because they are voracious learners who want to know more about all kinds of things that come up in daily life, and who have the tools at hand to research those things.

[Dmmetler]

The profoundly gifted kids I know would have, upon meeting those people, done a bit of research on Peru (possibly moving on to ancient Peruvians or Peruvian cuisine), on coin collecting in general and/or rare coins in particular, and on the someone famous (and perhaps more about the thing they are famous for). Not a sustained research project (usually), but a bit of Google + Wikipedia at minimum, just out of curiosity. PG kids (and adults) are the kind of people who watch TV with their electronics at hand, should the desire arise to fact check, to read a quick bio of an actor or someone in the news, to look up more about a bit of history that is mentioned, or to answer any scientific questions that may arise. Not because they need to, but because they are voracious learners who want to know more about all kinds of things that come up in daily life, and who have the tools at hand to research those things.

Yes-exactly. The main reason for asking here is that she is aware that anything involving human sexuality can head into Rule 34 territory.

[Ravin]

Your DD is very wise to do her own research rather than quiz her new friend to answer questions like "what does asexual mean?" Asking what pronouns they use should be about the extent of what to ask the person. That doesn't mean she can't go looking for suitable answers to her questions somewhere else.

 

I will say that "gender flexible" is a descriptor I haven't heard before. I'm familiar with gender fluid, genderqueer, agender,  and neutrois, but that's a new one on me. The vocabulary is constantly changing and, once your DD has researched (and some good links have already been provided) and gotten to know her new friend a bit, asking "what exactly do you mean by gender flexible?" might be an appropriate question at some point.  

[poppy]

I can't see why you would need to declare your sexuality when you introduce yourself though. Sounds a bit precious to me.

 

I do not mean this as insulting in any way: this is exactly what privilege is. 

[EmseB]

2017: When it's considered privelege to *not* disclose your sexual preferences to colleagues upon first meeting.

 

Whatever happened to chatting about the weather and, say, the work at hand and maybe leaving the other stuff for people who express an interest in knowing? Assuming people need to know seems quite narcissistic.

[poppy]

2017: When it's considered privelege to *not* disclose your sexual preferences to colleagues upon first meeting.

 

Whatever happened to chatting about the weather and, say, the work at hand and maybe leaving the other stuff for people who express an interest in knowing? Assuming people need to know seems quite narcissistic.

 

You already assume people know your gender identity. That's the privilege.  People see you and can safely assume their presumptions are correct.    It's easy to live that way.

People who can't live that way have a harder path.  So approach them with compassion, not scorn.  Is my advice for being a good human being.

[EmseB]

You already assume people know your gender identity. That's the privilege. People see you and can safely assume their presumptions are correct. It's easy to live that way.

People who can't live that way have a harder path. So approach them with compassion, not scorn. Is my advice for being a good human being.

No, I don't assume that people know my gender identity. I don't presume to know anyone else's either. Further, I don't care as long as my lab partner is doing their work.

 

It's easy to get along in a college or professional environment without bringing up ones identity in terms of sexuality, which is a highly personal detail. And while I would not scorn anyone for including it in their intro I would assume they had issues with knowing appropriate boundaries in social interactions. Especially if they felt it necessary to tell a preteen

[goldberry]

 And while I would not scorn anyone for including it in their intro I would assume they had issues with knowing appropriate boundaries in social interactions. Especially if they felt it necessary to tell a preteen

 

Did you read all the info here?  The preteen is in a college class, and the info was shared with college mates.  

 

ETA, also it was a psychology class, where you could see that topic might be more likely to arise.

Edited September 11, 2017 by goldberry

[EmseB]

Did you read all the info here? The preteen is in a college class, and the info was shared with college mates.

 

ETA, also it was a psychology class, where you could see that topic might be more likely to arise.

Yes. I read the context.

 

I still don't see how introducing one's self that way is necessary or relevant. And, to me, a preteen is still a preteen regardless of setting or intellectual capacity.

 

I've taken a college psych class. The personal sexuality of myself or my classmates never came up, and if it had I would have found it incredibly inappropriate.

 

I didn't just fall off the turnip truck and have been in a variety of professional settings with a wide variety of people. I can't think of one where it is imperative to disclose one's sexuality right off the bat. Thinking that professional acquaintances need to know seems to be a mark of immaturity to me.

Edited September 11, 2017 by EmseB

[Pam in CT]

Just a couple months ago we had a thread in which *many* people expressed the view that a person identifying as trans should make that clear very early on -- like, in the very first coffee together -- so as to ensure that the other (CIS) person was not made uncomfortable, by possibly relating to a person as a possible romantic potential when the gender identity of the first was a "deal breaker."  

 

This situation sounds like a young person doing just that -- clearly communicating from the outset what *many* people on this board stated they would want to know at the very outset of a platonic relationship, *before* it wandered into even-vaguely-possible "deal breaker" territory that might possibly progress to possibly uncomfortable feelings later on.

 

 

 

 

I agree with pp that once past the pronoun issue, a bit of general background reading will suffice unless and until the working-group-colleague relationship makes further discussion with the classmate natural and appropriate.

 

 

 

[goldberry]

Just a couple months ago we had a thread in which *many* people expressed the view that a person identifying as trans should make that clear very early on -- like, in the very first coffee together -- so as to ensure that the other (CIS) person was not made uncomfortable, by possibly relating to a person as a possible romantic potential when the gender identity of the first was a "deal breaker."  

 

This situation sounds like a young person doing just that -- clearly communicating from the outset what *many* people on this board stated they would want to know at the very outset of a platonic relationship, *before* it wandered into even-vaguely-possible "deal breaker" territory that might possibly progress to possibly uncomfortable feelings later on.

 

I know, I'm wondering what people really want here? It's not even about romantic deal-breakers, some people don't even want to be friends with a trans or gay person.  If it's out in the open, no one has to waste any time or invest in a relationship that might be a moot point.

[goldberry]

And, to me, a preteen is still a preteen regardless of setting or intellectual capacity.

 

 

Before DD started college classes (and that was only at 16) I discussed with her that these people were older and that there would be discussions and assumptions taking place that would be common among this older group.  I did not assume that people in college or college classes would take my DD's younger age into account among all the people there.  

 

I would think anyone sending a younger kid to college would have considered those implications. 

[Farrar]

It's possible that the class started off by being invited to make these introductions. I'm familiar with college courses in the humanities and social sciences where students will be doing projects and working together, they are asked to introduce themselves and say their preferred pronouns and if there's anything they want the class to know about them. While it's possible, I'm guessing that it's not like she walked up out of nowhere and introduced herself quite that way. I think a lot of young people today appreciate having that space set up ahead of time in classes - as weird as it would be to many of us now.

 

I always think the best way to guide our kids is to educate ourselves. This comic about asexuality helped me try to get it a little better a few years ago:

http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/10/5-myths-and-misconceptions-about-asexuality/

[EmilyGF]

DD has a classmate in her study group who identifies as gender flexible in gender and asexual in orientation. (and introduced fhemself that way in their psychology class small group.) DD has a lot of questions, but doesn't want to offend them by asking beyond "what pronouns do you want me to use?". Does anyone know of any good resources which would help her with these questions? DD is finding a lot in common as far as other interests with them, and thinks a friendship is possible, and doesn't want to mess things up in ignorance.

In academic circles, many people start their talks with statements like "Hi, my name is Randi and my pronouns are she/her." So I think it is completely reasonable to ask. These things are stated on slides that are put on websites, etc.

 

Goodness, I went to a networking event last year where people put their pronouns on their name tags. It seems to be currently considered normal to ask pronouns. So I'd be no more worried about asking, "what pronoun?" than asking, "what is your name?"

Emily

[poppy]

Yes. I read the context.

 

I still don't see how introducing one's self that way is necessary or relevant. And, to me, a preteen is still a preteen regardless of setting or intellectual capacity.

 

I've taken a college psych class. The personal sexuality of myself or my classmates never came up, and if it had I would have found it incredibly inappropriate.

 

I didn't just fall off the turnip truck and have been in a variety of professional settings with a wide variety of people. I can't think of one where it is imperative to disclose one's sexuality right off the bat. Thinking that professional acquaintances need to know seems to be a mark of immaturity to me.

 

Sometimes I forget how there are still people who aren't caught up. I  think you might just not be exposed to this world, if you find it to be a "mark of immaturity".  I've been in meetings and conferences where it's appropriate to introduce yourself with gender info- this is standard social etiquette in deliberately inclusive groups.

 

So picture the first meeting, where everyone sits around and does introductions.   You could say:

"My name is Poppy, I'm a software engineer, and my pronoun are she and her".    (this is how i would do it)

"Hi, my name is Poppy, I'm a software engineer, and my pronouns are they and them".   (this is how a gender fluid person might choose to do it)

"Hi, my name is Poppy, and I'm a software engineer."    (not giving pronouns is perfectly OK)

 

So I'm going to guess this is how it came up with a 12 year old in the room.  Not as an intrusive oversharing, but in a general polite introductions kind of way. 

[Farrar]

The idea that sexuality would be off limits in a psychology course is cracking me up, by the way. Or that personal identification would be off limits and inappropriate in psychology course. We had a thread here once where people made it clear that they don't think talking about sex is ever appropriate in any context - not even with the person you have sex with. But let me assure you that people - psychologists, philosophers, biologists, all kinds of social scientists, medical doctors, and many other people, study sex and sexuality in college.

[Tanaqui]

Whatever happened to chatting about the weather and, say, the work at hand and maybe leaving the other stuff for people who express an interest in knowing? Assuming people need to know seems quite narcissistic.

 

You never mention your boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse? You never mention dating, or kids, or your life?

 

No, I don't assume that people know my gender identity. I don't presume to know anyone else's either. Further, I don't care as long as my lab partner is doing their work

 

So you wouldn't be surprised if people called you by the wrong pronoun?

 

I did not assume that people in college or college classes would take my DD's younger age into account among all the people there.

 

And when they do it probably means they keep the details PG-rated - which "Hey, I'm gay!" (or the equivalent) is.

[EmseB]

Just a couple months ago we had a thread in which *many* people expressed the view that a person identifying as trans should make that clear very early on -- like, in the very first coffee together -- so as to ensure that the other (CIS) person was not made uncomfortable, by possibly relating to a person as a possible romantic potential when the gender identity of the first was a "deal breaker."

In a dating relationship. Going out for coffee on a date. Personal dating relationship. When one person or the other wants to date. Not where you just met a group of colleagues that you will be working with professionally. One of which who, again, is 12.

[goldberry]

In a dating relationship. Going out for coffee on a date. Personal dating relationship. When one person or the other wants to date. Not where you just met a group of colleagues that you will be working with professionally. One of which who, again, is 12.

 

I hear what you are saying.  At the same time, if you had something about yourself that a large percentage of people might freak out on, and even decide not to be your friend because of, do you see why some of those people might just want to get that out in the open, especially in the context of introductions/tell something about yourself?  

 

I really do understand that. It's probably awfully tiring getting to know people only to have them get awkward or distant on you a week or two weeks later. It makes more sense if you realize there is probably a lot of history behind it that leads them to just be upfront about it.

[Pam in CT]

In a dating relationship. Going out for coffee on a date. Personal dating relationship. When one person or the other wants to date. Not where you just met a group of colleagues that you will be working with professionally. One of which who, again, is 12.

 

 

From the perspective of the person on the other side, it might well make equal sense to lay it all out at the outset, right?  

 

So as to avoid the possible awkwardness of having that initial coffee date awkwardly interrupted when the promptly disclosed status turned out to be the other person's "deal breaker"?  Y'all just wouldn't end up having that first coffee at all?

 

Isn't that equally reasonable from the perspective of the OTHER person?

 

 

 

I guess to my mind, the question of exactly when to disclose personal information is "owned" by the person doing the disclosure.  It's both unrealistic and to my mind unfair to say The moment of disclosure that works for me is this, exactly this, only this.  Any earlier, is TMI; any later is false pretenses.

[Caroline]

That thread, honestly, has nothing to do with this thread. That thread was about two people in the beginnings of a romantic relationship. This thread is about a college student in a study group. Which is basically not very different than a work environment.

 

Would you consider it appropriate for someone to walk into the office and say to the people they meet "Hi, my name is Jo, today's my first day. I am asexual." as their introduction at work?

 

No I don't think that's appropriate. Therefore, I don't think it's all that appropriate in a study hall. I mean, this isn't some singles mingle....it's a study group for a college class.

 

In short....disclosing that sort of information up front is appropriate in a personal, potential relationship situation. Disclosing that sort of information up front is not appropriate in a profession or semi professional setting.

 

Maybe it was because I was in a major where I was one of three girls ever in a class, every college study group was like a single mingle. I met my DH in a college study group for mechanics of deformable bodies class. There were actually 6 girls in that class. Three couples from that class ended up married.

[goldberry]

 mechanics of deformable bodies 

 

I have to ask.... ????