Dirty Dancing 30th anniversary - question

[Bluegoat]

So I read an article in The Guardian about Dirty Dancing, in honour of it's 30th anniversary.

 

It was interesting to read the comments and see how many people ad no idea there were religious elements mixed in with the class ones.  Now, I missed that when I saw it as a kid, but I caught on when I saw it later.

 

I'm curious if it that was common, or maybe it was because the readership is largely non-American.  Since the Hive tends to be US heat, is this something clearer to Americans?  Or maybe it depends on your religious background?

[Guest]

Lol I think most people just don't think deeply at all about movies like that, even when they're the most Jewish movie ever :-D

 

http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/74789/is-dirty-dancing-the-most-jewish-film-ever

[Guest]

I missed about half those religious overtones but I was also a west coast WASP kid when I first saw it ;)

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

All news to me!  

[MEmama]

Nope, I never noticed. I don't even notice that stuff now.

[Guest]

I never picked up on any religious elements but I also missed the fact that a big part of the movie was about an illegal abortion until I saw it as an adult. I was probably much too young to see DD when I did.

[Lady Florida.]

It was very much Jewish but more cultural Jewish than religious. And yes, I recognized it back then but I was an adult when the movie came out.

Edited September 6, 2017 by Lady Florida.

[Lady Florida.]

Thinking a little more about it, whether or not the Jewish aspect was recognizable might depend on where you're from. I doubt dh's family from the Tennessee mountains would have been able to see it. They just weren't around Jewish people/Jewish culture. I was born and lived in NJ until was 13, and there was a mixture of people including Jews. To me it was obvious, to dh it would have to be pointed out.

[Bluegoat]

Can you be more specific? What kind of religious elements? I recognized Jewish elements, but maybe not all of them... So now I'm curious. Link?

 

I mean, that it was a Jewish resort, where pretty much all the patrons, owners, and waiters, were Jewish.

 

While the less visible, working class staff members, were not - mostly I suspect they were Catholic.

 

Apparently most of the people who saw the movie didn't clue into this at all.  Although I have since learned that there were many of these resorts in the Catskills in the first half of the 20th century, so much so that it was called the "Borscht Belt."

Edited September 6, 2017 by Bluegoat

[Bluegoat]

Thinking a little more about it, whether or not the Jewish aspect was recognizable might depend on where you're from. I doubt dh's family from the Tennessee mountains would have been able to see it. They just weren't around Jewish people/Jewish culture. I was born and lived in NJ until was 13, and there was a mixture of people including Jews. To me it was obvious, to dh it would have to be pointed out.

 

Yes, I think you are right.

 

We actually have a rather small Jewish population where I live, but I think what tipped me off were the names of the families, and then they all had accents just like my roommate's dad, who was from the same background as most of the guest families.

 

Once I noticed that the element it played in the story stuck out a lot more.

[Lady Florida.]

I mean, that it was a Jewish resort, where pretty much all the patrons, owners, and waiters, were Jewish.

 

While the less visible, working class staff members, were not - mostly I suspect they were Catholic.

 

 

 

 

That was very much the culture where I lived in NJ in the 1960s (we moved to Florida in '69). My mother - we were Catholic as were many of the other employees- was a waitress at a Jewish country club. Once a year they had employee family day when the pool and other amenities were open to families. Think Caddyshack. :D

Edited September 6, 2017 by Lady Florida.

[kewb]

As someone who is Jewish I didn't notice because it was all normal to me. The Borsht Belt is part of my history. It didn't stand out to me as having religious elements. But as as kid I had no idea the chronicles of Narnia was the story of Christ. I didn't clue in until reading it to my oldest. So I might not be the best judge.

[Hilltopmom]

I mean, that it was a Jewish resort, where pretty much all the patrons, owners, and waiters, were Jewish.

 

While the less visible, working class staff members, were not - mostly I suspect they were Catholic.

 

Apparently most of the people who saw the movie didn't clue into this at all. Although I have since learned that there were many of these resorts in the Catskills in the first half of the 20th century, so much so that it was called the "Borscht Belt."

I worked at one a year during college over breaks & long weekends as babysitting staff. The place was old & half the resort was shut up & closed down. It was like a mix between Dirty Dancing & The Shining. Interesting experience.

[Bluegoat]

I worked at one a year during college over breaks & long weekends as babysitting staff. The place was old & half the resort was shut up & closed down. It was like a mix between Dirty Dancing & The Shining. Interesting experience.

 

Someone should totally make that movie.

[Catwoman]

I worked at one a year during college over breaks & long weekends as babysitting staff. The place was old & half the resort was shut up & closed down. It was like a mix between Dirty Dancing & The Shining. Interesting experience.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Is it wrong that I can picture exactly what you mean?

[3 ladybugs]

I think a couple of the old resorts are still there. I know I stayed at one in the 1990's but I think it has since closed. They were interesting. 

 

I didn't get most of the movie as a kid. I get it more now as an adult. I have an autograph somewhere from Bill Medley who sang one of the songs from that movie. 

[TravelingChris]

Never saw the movie.

[Peaceseeker]

It was clear to me but I am not sure how. I hardly knew anyone Jewish growing up. I did read a lot and watch a lot of TV though.

[EMS83]

I missed all of that completely.  And now I want to go watch it.  :D 

[Bluegoat]

I think it's a much better movie than it usually gets credit for.

 

It's that dance scene at the end that does it in, I think.  I like it, but I can see why people think its cheesy.

[wonderchica]

Yeah, I missed all of that. Not surprising, as I was pretty young when I saw it and didn't actually know anyone who was Jewish until college (small, Southern mountains hometown). I'm sure I would pick up more now if I rewatched it!

[madteaparty]

So I lived overseas when I saw this (it was a huge deal) and the entire population missed any jewishness, cultural or otherwise.

Then I owned a house in the general area that the resort this took place was, and only then, (like, 5 min ago) did I hear that the resort was related to the movie. I think it's time for a rewatch. There's a large Hasidic summer camp population in that area but that doesn't immediately bring to mind Dirty Dancing.

ETA, cool photos: https://www.google.com/amp/www.nydailynews.com/amp/new-york/dirty-dancing-resort-sits-abandoned-catskills-gallery-1.3377845

Edited September 7, 2017 by madteaparty

[Guest]

I think it's a much better movie than it usually gets credit for.

 

It's that dance scene at the end that does it in, I think. I like it, but I can see why people think its cheesy.

Cheesy??? What??

[ktgrok]

I never picked up on any religious elements but I also missed the fact that a big part of the movie was about an illegal abortion until I saw it as an adult. I was probably much too young to see DD when I did.

 

Same. I was just too young to pick up on most of it. Had no idea the abortion was illegal, or that she was jewish when I first saw it. 

[ktgrok]

Yes, I think you are right.

 

We actually have a rather small Jewish population where I live, but I think what tipped me off were the names of the families, and then they all had accents just like my roommate's dad, who was from the same background as most of the guest families.

 

Once I noticed that the element it played in the story stuck out a lot more.

 

I grew up in south florida, in a highly concentrated area (comparatively speaking) of Jewish people. So the accents and names just seemed normal to me, lol. 

[ktgrok]

Ummm. Say what?? Surely I'm reading this wrong. 😱💃ðŸ¼ðŸ•ºðŸ¼

 

I had the same reaction. 

 

I thought everyone saw it! It's my favorite....it recently was shown here in a posh movie theater, for the anniversary. I immediately got tickets and dragged friends to see it with me. They also showed a bit of a behind the scenes thing first. Honestly, that whole afternoon is one of my favorites ever. I loved finally seeing it on the big screen. 

[poppy]

Baby Houseman, visiting at Kellerman's Resort, in the Catskills?  Yeah, Jewish.

 

 I always viewed it as an affectionate portrait of the Borscht Belt.   I am not Jewish or from that region but, it's a pop culture trope.    Like if a movie is in Boston there will be Irish Catholics.  "At Kellermans the friendships last long...." Plus, there was also an attractive dancing guy!

 

 

[Rosie_0801]

I never caught any of the Jewish things, but I have very little experience with the Jewish culture.  I don't personally know anyone who is Jewish and didn't grow up knowing anyone either. 

 

Me either. And besides, I was watching Patrick Swayze.

[Guest]

Me either. And besides, I was watching Patrick Swayze.

I'm going to go with this as well!!

[Lady Florida.]

Cheesy??? What??https://youtu.be/-PgTjhx1VLw

Oh. Um.

[Lady Florida.]

Something people might not realize is that the borscht belt resorts existed because Jews were denied accommodations elsewhere. Yep. Even after WWII and the Holocaust discrimination against Jews was still prevalent. Also, some of the famous Jewish comedians of earlier times played those resorts for the same reason - they weren't wanted elsewhere.

[Ellie]

I mean, that it was a Jewish resort, where pretty much all the patrons, owners, and waiters, were Jewish.

 

While the less visible, working class staff members, were not - mostly I suspect they were Catholic.

 

Apparently most of the people who saw the movie didn't clue into this at all.  Although I have since learned that there were many of these resorts in the Catskills in the first half of the 20th century, so much so that it was called the "Borscht Belt."

 

No way!!!

[Bluegoat]

I grew up in south florida, in a highly concentrated area (comparatively speaking) of Jewish people. So the accents and names just seemed normal to me, lol. 

 

I didn't think they were abnormal.  It just struck me that they were all Jewish, and surely that wasn't some sort of happenstance?

 

I think I knew that there were resorts some Jewish people went to at Christmas, so I came to the conclusion that this was that kind of place.

 

It made the whole thing with Robbie make a lot more sense. (Not that he was an ass - that he was seen as marriage material, potentially.)

[Melissa in Australia]

Add me to the list of people who have never watched it

[Carrie12345]

I grew up in south florida, in a highly concentrated area (comparatively speaking) of Jewish people. So the accents and names just seemed normal to me, lol. 

 

Yeah, I don't think it really struck me as anything significant, because I grew up with the accents and names in NJ. I didn't identify those things as being Jewish for the longest time.  When I was a teenager, I remember one girl started talking about her Jewish nose, and I was like, "That's a thing?"  Even after being a part of my Jewish ex's family for 3 years, I was still surprised when his mom said something about me marrying a Jewish guy. I hadn't realized how Jewish my married name sounds!  And, for what it's worth, my son totally has a Jewish nose, lol.

 

Then again, I don't think I realized how Italian organized crime was until the Sopranos...

[Guest]

We used to go fishing where it was filmed :-D

 

eta oh no! And now look, it's dried up.

Edited September 7, 2017 by OKBud

[JustEm]

I have never seen it either. No intention to ever see it either.

[Guest]

When I watched it, I was a teenager. I did get the illegal abortion aspect. But I don't remember noticing specifically that it was a Jewish resort. Retrospectively, yeah, it makes sense, but I knew/know lots of Jewish people, so it wouldn't have stood out as something to notice particularly.

 

I noticed class more.

[Bluegoat]

Cheesy??? What??

 

 

They weren't consistent about the boy/girl parts. For some reason that bothers me.

[Wheres Toto]

I grew up in south florida, in a highly concentrated area (comparatively speaking) of Jewish people. So the accents and names just seemed normal to me, lol. 

 

This was me.  I grew up in Northern NJ and the accents and names didn't strike me as anything unusual at all.  

[slackermom]

I was an older teen when it came out. At that point in my life, I had spent half my life in the U.S., and half in Europe, moving back and forth every few years. My family was nominally Christian, mixed Catholic and Protestant, but not practicing. I don't recall knowing any Jewish people in real life until that year (college), actually, but I read a lot, and I paid a lot attention to group dynamics. I definitely noticed that it was a Jewish family, staying at a Jewish resort, and that the staff were "other."

[poppy]

I wouldn't say that there were "religious" elements along with the class ones, though.  Cultural maybe....Baby's self deprecating humor bombed in front of the dancers.   But that's not really specifically Jewish.   The Jewish doctor may have had less of an issue helping the back alley abortion victim than a Christian one. But, honestly, probably not. Doctors help sick people. And wasn't the guy who got her pregnant a Jewish guy (the waiter who was also chasing Baby's sister?)    I think it was more "a snapshot of a specific time / place" than a religious / cultural contrast. 

[Guest]

All I noticed about the staff the first twelve hundred times I watched it was that they were horny all the time.

 

Really, it's a nuanced film though :-D

[Ellie]

When I watched it, I was a teenager. I did get the illegal abortion aspect. But I don't remember noticing specifically that it was a Jewish resort. Retrospectively, yeah, it makes sense, but I knew/know lots of Jewish people, so it wouldn't have stood out as something to notice particularly.

 

I noticed class more.

 

:iagree: 

 

I was grown and married with children, living in California, when I watched it. It would never have occurred to me in elebenty-million years that it was Jewish resort, or that anyone there was Jewish or Christian or anything in between. It was just a good movie with an awesome final dance scene.

[Katy]

I'm sure I didn't get that when I first watched as a protestant kid.  I was probably way too young, but my parents were generally sex-positive, and my feminist mom let us watch it after discussing why she thought it was important that abortion remain safe and legal.

 

As an adult I think those elements are impossible to miss, but that's probably also due to exposure to the culture at college.

[solascriptura]

I did remember that the family was Jewish, but never thought much about it. To a minority immigrant, a Jewish person is white. So a Jewish (white) person is pretty much the same as a WASP. To this day, although I know that many make a differentiation, I can't figure out why there is a differentiation.

[solascriptura]

I loved that movie by the way. I must have seen it 100 times.

[Tap]

I have only seen it once, as an older teen. What I remember:

I remember a lot of sexual content and a lot of lies. 

`Illegal Abortion and a doctor (don't remember if the doctor was the one who did it or helped her)

`A lot of Jewish references/characters. 

`I thought it was odd that people would go to a dance camp for That long!  A week or two, maybe but I could remember wrong, but I think there were supposed to be there all summer.

`Old people who are thieves.

 

 

 

[Bluegoat]

I did remember that the family was Jewish, but never thought much about it. To a minority immigrant, a Jewish person is white. So a Jewish (white) person is pretty much the same as a WASP. To this day, although I know that many make a differentiation, I can't figure out why there is a differentiation.

 

Oh, that's interesting.

 

I guess the way I'd turn that around is to say - why should whiteness really be the deciding factor, rather than a different religion?  Or perhaps more importantly, a culture with elements, like a special diet, that tended to differentiate them or sometimes even make it difficult for some to do simple things like eat together?  Those things kept Jewish communities in many cultures quite separate from the other people who lived in them.

 

If we go back to the first half of the 20th century - it was just changing at the time the movie was set - you can see even among "white" people there were often clear cultural gradations and differentiations made.  Religion was one thing - my grandmother, for example, was Catholic, my grandfather from a Protestant background though he wasn't religious.  His dad, however, refused to come to the wedding - he actually belonged to an Orange Lodge.  Cultural elements for many were tied to this - a lot of Catholics here were Irish, and they were despised.

 

There's a book I'm fond of set in Ontario, and the narrator describes his town when he was a boy as a layer of ethnicity and religion.  The Metis (Catholic) at the bottom, then the French and Ukrainians (also Catholic).  Above that were the Irish (Catholic) and at the top the Scots (Presbyterians).  The Anglicans (English) thought they were at the top and more cultured, but the Presbyterians knew that they were more practical and also, more rich, and the Anglicans were just deluded.  So - yes, the brownest people were at the bottom, and the non-English speaking more generally, but there were all kinds of layers of differentiation there which many of us are unaware of today, even in towns like the one he was describing.

[Hilltopmom]

I have only seen it once, as an older teen. What I remember:

I remember a lot of sexual content and a lot of lies.

`Illegal Abortion and a doctor (don't remember if the doctor was the one who did it or helped her)

`A lot of Jewish references/characters.

`I thought it was odd that people would go to a dance camp for That long! A week or two, maybe but I could remember wrong, but I think there were supposed to be there all summer.

`Old people who are thieves.

It wasn't a dance camp though, it was a family resort. Dancing classes were one option for activities & evening dances for guests would've happened too for entertainment, plus the entertainment of watching a dance performance :) so, lots of dancing, but not dance camp